| This show has insane potential. But I can also see it go down the drain if the writing slips. I already have a few problems with it but so far i think it does exceed most of the shows this season. |
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| Because it's just downright awful. The show throws you in the middle of a political gripe without giving any reason to care or root for one side other than the main characters belonging to it. It also feels like a teen wish fulfilment show (really hate to use those buzzwords but it really applies here) with the whole point being to show off how badass the MC can be with minimal effort and a lazy attitude, because not trying is cool apparently. |
| Look at first pv for this anime. Really terrible for marketing, that pv doesn't explain what type of anime is this. I first thought this show is harem and ecchi things. https://www.youtube.com/embed/5kL47t4Mz-4?enablejsapi=1&wmode=opaque&autoplay=1 |
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| I recently discovered this Anime. Right now, I gave it a 7/10. It might go up to 8/10 if it keeps up. I'm not a fan of the MC's behavior, but it is not insufferable... so there's that :) We're still in the introduction part so I'll wait until the real thing is revealed (aka, when they start fighting for real against big armies). The MC is smart, but I hope that he's not just going to "faceroll" everything with his strategy. I want to see some real struggle. |
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| My opinion is increasing every week. I really loved the last episode. I was on my seat the last 5 minutes. So far I really like the main character's care-free attitude; it creates a nice contrast with Yatrisino's. I also love how the show takes a realistic approach to violence and war. But I believe it has some great potential; if it stays on episode 4's level for the rest of the season, then I definitely believe we'll have a great anime. |
| I only watch this because I've read the manga... otherwise I don't think I'll ever pick this up. |
| A city's greatness is determined by the speed of its internet connection. |
| This is a sleeper hit. I wish more people would watch this. Watched till episode 4 and I really liked it. Liked the MC too |
| The first episode was weaksauce thats why. The way it handled the exposition as well as the event was piss poor. |
GoldenKappa said: The first episode was weaksauce thats why. The way it handled the exposition as well as the event was piss poor. I thought the first episode was okay. Not fast paced or anything but definitely not the weakest I've seen this season |
Ein said: Because it's just downright awful. The show throws you in the middle of a political gripe without giving any reason to care or root for one side other than the main characters belonging to it. It also feels like a teen wish fulfilment show (really hate to use those buzzwords but it really applies here) with the whole point being to show off how badass the MC can be with minimal effort and a lazy attitude, because not trying is cool apparently. This guy knows what's up. |
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| @Ein Tenth said: Ein said: Because it's just downright awful. The show throws you in the middle of a political gripe without giving any reason to care or root for one side other than the main characters belonging to it. It also feels like a teen wish fulfilment show (really hate to use those buzzwords but it really applies here) with the whole point being to show off how badass the MC can be with minimal effort and a lazy attitude, because not trying is cool apparently. This guy knows what's up. Not quite. This is a narration style called in media res, and it's perfectly acceptable and can be just as praiseworthy as any other style when well done. For whatever reasons, it seems like in media res story are very badly received by a part of the anime community, like you. Pretty much any anime that had the in media res narration is getting hit by that hate from peoples like you two, and claimed as being "bad". Which is comical since that narrative method is as old as the Iliad. As for being wish fulfilment just because the MC is both lazy and smart, I'm afraid you're lacking in knowledge here once again. Lazy+smart strategist is a combination praised IRL by generals and it has been a thing for a long time. Without going as far as Sun Tzu's art of war and his winning before the battle begin type (which is exactly the type of laziness we're talking about here, doing your best for a while so that you can be lazy afterwards), a very powerful and talented old general said it more directly more than 70 years ago : "I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations." (General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord,1933) Seems to me that you don't know what's up that much, after all. |
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| I just dont like the art ı mean the art its self is not bad but the faces sooo different from the manga and its kinda feels weird but the show is not bad overall maybe on the continue episodes people might give it better scores ı guess. |
Zefyris said: @Ein Not quite. This is a narration style called in media res, and it's perfectly acceptable and can be just as praiseworthy as any other style when well done. For whatever reasons, it seems like in media res story are very badly received by a part of the anime community, like you. Pretty much any anime that had the in media res narration is getting hit by that hate from peoples like you two, and claimed as being "bad". Which is comical since that narrative method is as old as the Iliad. As for being wish fulfilment just because the MC is both lazy and smart, I'm afraid you're lacking in knowledge here once again. Lazy+smart strategist is a combination praised IRL by generals and it has been a thing for a long time. Without going as far as Sun Tzu's art of war and his winning before the battle begin type (which is exactly the type of laziness we're talking about here, doing your best for a while so that you can be lazy afterwards), a very powerful and talented old general said it more directly more than 70 years ago : "I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations." (General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord,1933) Seems to me that you don't know what's up that much, after all. It's cool that you know all that stuff but it still doesnt justify how utterly uninteresting the show is. Just because the show employs such narrative techniques and borrows historical ideas doesn't mean the end product will be great. It's the important execution that's lacking. Why should I care whether or not the Empire is at a political disadvantage? There's no significance to any of the side characters other than their purpose to show off the MC's greatness. In the end, this show sums up to a simple, bland idea that's promoted with revered techniques. |
Windman said: And I just now, after 5 episodes, listened to the opening for the first time and my god is that The Akeboshi Rockets? I pray that those 2 GATE openings got them back into the anime opening industry cause their Touhou songs are sooo awesome. I kinda missed them. From the first 5 seconds , i knew it was by the same group who did Gate openings . The singer's voice is also recognizable for my ear . Anyways, i have this show on my ptw and will start watching it eventually . |
Shishou_23Aug 5, 2016 2:46 PM
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Ein said: Zefyris said: @Ein Not quite. This is a narration style called in media res, and it's perfectly acceptable and can be just as praiseworthy as any other style when well done. For whatever reasons, it seems like in media res story are very badly received by a part of the anime community, like you. Pretty much any anime that had the in media res narration is getting hit by that hate from peoples like you two, and claimed as being "bad". Which is comical since that narrative method is as old as the Iliad. As for being wish fulfilment just because the MC is both lazy and smart, I'm afraid you're lacking in knowledge here once again. Lazy+smart strategist is a combination praised IRL by generals and it has been a thing for a long time. Without going as far as Sun Tzu's art of war and his winning before the battle begin type (which is exactly the type of laziness we're talking about here, doing your best for a while so that you can be lazy afterwards), a very powerful and talented old general said it more directly more than 70 years ago : "I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations." (General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord,1933) Seems to me that you don't know what's up that much, after all. It's cool that you know all that stuff but it still doesnt justify how utterly uninteresting the show is. Just because the show employs such narrative techniques and borrows historical ideas doesn't mean the end product will be great. It's the important execution that's lacking. Why should I care whether or not the Empire is at a political disadvantage? There's no significance to any of the side characters other than their purpose to show off the MC's greatness. In the end, this show sums up to a simple, bland idea that's promoted with revered techniques. you do realize that it interesting you or not is only your own taste reflected, you're not interested because... you're not interested in that kind of stuff, and that's it. Not because it's not interesting as an universal truth or whatever. You don't care because you don't want to care, because you're not interested in that kind of stuff. That may be a surprise for you, but no matter how good is a story, if it's not interesting you, you won't get into it nor enjoy it. There is no secret here. Before even talking about execution, your problem is clearly here. Also, that's extremely wrong considering how much the side characters can do, and considering the important and very strong message that any war scene in this story carries, IE how much cruelty, inhumanity, unfairness there is in war, and how there is never a bad side, just peoples that killed and were killed. There is no joy felt in defeating the enemy in this story. Episode 5 shows it again strongly, this times against wolves, as the main characters actually feel bad about it and also worry about them. All of that while giving comparison with a war between humans. Its view of war is actually very strong and outside of the interesting tactics and characters it brings in, Alderamin on the sky is a strong denunciation of the absurd manicheism employed to make the opponent look bad and justify it's own side 's action. BEcause it feels easier to support that way. You didn't kill human, you killed bad guys, you killed enemies, so it's fine, you can live with it. Because living with it with the idea "I killed good humans that were simply on the other side of the battle" is so hard to live with. It is a reflection on that kind of psychological aspect of war, the sequels it leaves on peoples, and how they deal with it. It is also a fair reflection on the interaction between science and religion, and so on for several important subject like that. Alderamin on the sky's messages are multiples, its reflection is both strong and well carried. But if you don't like it, no matter how much words I write, you will not enjoy it any more anyway. As I said, the problem is first and foremost that you aren't interested in that type of show. Which is fine. But that doesn't make the show bad just like that. |
ZefyrisAug 5, 2016 3:40 PM
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Zefyris said: Ein said: It's cool that you know all that stuff but it still doesnt justify how utterly uninteresting the show is. Just because the show employs such narrative techniques and borrows historical ideas doesn't mean the end product will be great. It's the important execution that's lacking. Why should I care whether or not the Empire is at a political disadvantage? There's no significance to any of the side characters other than their purpose to show off the MC's greatness. In the end, this show sums up to a simple, bland idea that's promoted with revered techniques. you do realize that it interesting you or not is only your own taste reflected, you're not interested because... you're not interested in that kind of stuff, and that's it. Not because it's not interesting as an universal truth or whatever. You don't care because you don't want to care, because you're not interested in that kind of stuff. That may be a surprise for you, but no matter how good is a story, if it's not interesting you, you won't get into it nor enjoy it. There is no secret here. Before even talking about execution, your problem is clearly here. Also, that's extremely wrong considering how much the side characters can do, and considering the important and very strong message that any war scene in this story carries, IE how much cruelty, inhumanity, unfairness there is in war, and how there is never a bad side, just peoples that killed and were killed. There is no joy felt in defeating the enemy in this story. Episode 5 shows it again strongly, this times against wolves, as the main characters actually feel bad about it and also worry about them. All of that while giving comparison with a war between humans. Its view of war is actually very strong and outside of the interesting tactics and characters it brings in, Alderamin on the sky is a strong denunciation of the absurd manicheism employed to make the opponent look bad and justify it's own side 's action. BEcause it feels easier to support that way. You didn't kill human, you killed bad guys, you killed enemies, so it's fine, you can live with it. Because living with it with the idea "I killed good humans that were simply on the other side of the battle" is so hard to live with. It is a reflection on that kind of psychological aspect of war, the sequels it leaves on peoples, and how they deal with it. It is also a fair reflection on the interaction between science and religion, and so on for several important subject like that. Alderamin on the sky's messages are multiples, its reflection is both strong and well carried. But if you don't like it, no matter how much words I write, you will not enjoy it any more anyway. As I said, the problem is first and foremost that you aren't interested in that type of show. Which is fine. But that doesn't make the show bad just like that. The show is uninteresting because it has failed to provide a reason to care. It's not like I don't want to but I simply can't. What are the stakes? Has anything of value been introduced within the Empire that would make the audience feel uneasy at the thought of losing it? No. It all boils down to bad writing and poor execution. And not once did I claim any of my posts to be universal truths. Im merely sharing them as a response to the thread so for future reference, it's not cool to assume on behalf of others. I'd be totally down with a politically-driven war story but this... |
Ein said: The show is uninteresting because it has failed to provide a reason to care. It's not like I don't want to but I simply can't. What are the stakes? Has anything of value been introduced within the Empire that would make the audience feel uneasy at the thought of losing it? No. It all boils down to bad writing and poor execution. And not once did I claim any of my posts to be universal truths. Im merely sharing them as a response to the thread so for future reference, it's not cool to assume on behalf of others. I'd be totally down with a politically-driven war story but this... Chill man.. If you want politic wait next episode |
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| People are complaining about the art style. For me its look okay. I haven't seen light novel and manga illustrations, but there are way worst art than this. |
Ein said: Zefyris said: you do realize that it interesting you or not is only your own taste reflected, you're not interested because... you're not interested in that kind of stuff, and that's it. Not because it's not interesting as an universal truth or whatever. You don't care because you don't want to care, because you're not interested in that kind of stuff. That may be a surprise for you, but no matter how good is a story, if it's not interesting you, you won't get into it nor enjoy it. There is no secret here. Before even talking about execution, your problem is clearly here. Also, that's extremely wrong considering how much the side characters can do, and considering the important and very strong message that any war scene in this story carries, IE how much cruelty, inhumanity, unfairness there is in war, and how there is never a bad side, just peoples that killed and were killed. There is no joy felt in defeating the enemy in this story. Episode 5 shows it again strongly, this times against wolves, as the main characters actually feel bad about it and also worry about them. All of that while giving comparison with a war between humans. Its view of war is actually very strong and outside of the interesting tactics and characters it brings in, Alderamin on the sky is a strong denunciation of the absurd manicheism employed to make the opponent look bad and justify it's own side 's action. BEcause it feels easier to support that way. You didn't kill human, you killed bad guys, you killed enemies, so it's fine, you can live with it. Because living with it with the idea "I killed good humans that were simply on the other side of the battle" is so hard to live with. It is a reflection on that kind of psychological aspect of war, the sequels it leaves on peoples, and how they deal with it. It is also a fair reflection on the interaction between science and religion, and so on for several important subject like that. Alderamin on the sky's messages are multiples, its reflection is both strong and well carried. But if you don't like it, no matter how much words I write, you will not enjoy it any more anyway. As I said, the problem is first and foremost that you aren't interested in that type of show. Which is fine. But that doesn't make the show bad just like that. The show is uninteresting because it has failed to provide a reason to care. It's not like I don't want to but I simply can't. What are the stakes? Has anything of value been introduced within the Empire that would make the audience feel uneasy at the thought of losing it? No. It all boils down to bad writing and poor execution. And not once did I claim any of my posts to be universal truths. Im merely sharing them as a response to the thread so for future reference, it's not cool to assume on behalf of others. I'd be totally down with a politically-driven war story but this... No, it is uninteresting for YOU because it hasn't provided YOU a reason to care about adetail (loss of a region they wanted to lose anyway) and that you're stuck there. From starters, the author clearly had no intention for us to care EMOTIONALLY about this part because it's not what's important for us there. You just call bad writing a writer that do not go the way you want. The show isn't supposed to make the reader/watcher involved in politic and war before they're part of the military and actor or victim in a way or another in this. That's why if you want politic/military, you'll have to first pass the period that make them soldiers and officers, indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not what you wanted, I get it, but it's not a failure from the author if the author intentions weren't there to begin with, and it should be obvious they were not there. |
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You mean sypnopsis? By the way can we tell mod to modify the synopsis? |
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| http://myanimelist.net/dbchanges.php?aid=31764&t=synopsis you can write your synopsis here and if the moods loked it they may replace the corrent one by yours.. |
Zefyris said: Ein said: The show is uninteresting because it has failed to provide a reason to care. It's not like I don't want to but I simply can't. What are the stakes? Has anything of value been introduced within the Empire that would make the audience feel uneasy at the thought of losing it? No. It all boils down to bad writing and poor execution. And not once did I claim any of my posts to be universal truths. Im merely sharing them as a response to the thread so for future reference, it's not cool to assume on behalf of others. I'd be totally down with a politically-driven war story but this... No, it is uninteresting for YOU because it hasn't provided YOU a reason to care about adetail (loss of a region they wanted to lose anyway) and that you're stuck there. From starters, the author clearly had no intention for us to care EMOTIONALLY about this part because it's not what's important for us there. You just call bad writing a writer that do not go the way you want. The show isn't supposed to make the reader/watcher involved in politic and war before they're part of the military and actor or victim in a way or another in this. That's why if you want politic/military, you'll have to first pass the period that make them soldiers and officers, indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not what you wanted, I get it, but it's not a failure from the author if the author intentions weren't there to begin with, and it should be obvious they were not there. Seeing as how I've been posting all this as my opinion, it should be implied that I'm only speaking for myself so no need to point that out every time. You've been going out of your way to do so every time but it seems like you treat your evaluation of the show as general fact. Why do you get to decide what the author's intentions are or what's important for us as viewers? If you interpret that part of the story that way that's fine, but there you go again speaking on behalf of others. The way I see it, the show is lackluster because it fails to be gripping. And I can only appoint that to the author and his stale writing. |
Ein said: Zefyris said: No, it is uninteresting for YOU because it hasn't provided YOU a reason to care about adetail (loss of a region they wanted to lose anyway) and that you're stuck there. From starters, the author clearly had no intention for us to care EMOTIONALLY about this part because it's not what's important for us there. You just call bad writing a writer that do not go the way you want. The show isn't supposed to make the reader/watcher involved in politic and war before they're part of the military and actor or victim in a way or another in this. That's why if you want politic/military, you'll have to first pass the period that make them soldiers and officers, indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not what you wanted, I get it, but it's not a failure from the author if the author intentions weren't there to begin with, and it should be obvious they were not there. Seeing as how I've been posting all this as my opinion, it should be implied that I'm only speaking for myself so no need to point that out every time. You've been going out of your way to do so every time but it seems like you treat your evaluation of the show as general fact. Why do you get to decide what the author's intentions are or what's important for us as viewers? If you interpret that part of the story that way that's fine, but there you go again speaking on behalf of others. The way I see it, the show is lackluster because it fails to be gripping. And I can only appoint that to the author and his stale writing. BEcause it's pretty obvious what 's the author's intentions are. The main characters are 6 characters who all react differently/have a different approach of war, and the show takes the time to show us how each of them cope with the various violent encounter. It also takes the time to make us feel bad for the losing side, even when it's just wild wolves, for example. When it's so constant like that, it is obviously voluntary from the author. Ther eis no need to be a genius or a prescient to understand that. Also, the In media res type of narration is as old as fictional stories are, so there's no need to be prescient once again to understand how it works and with what purpose it's used in a specific story. Clearly what you're complaining about and wanted go against the very purpose of such narration type to begin with, so there's no way an author would choose to start his story like that if he intended to make you have feelings about that particular event. |
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Zefyris said: Ein said: Seeing as how I've been posting all this as my opinion, it should be implied that I'm only speaking for myself so no need to point that out every time. You've been going out of your way to do so every time but it seems like you treat your evaluation of the show as general fact. Why do you get to decide what the author's intentions are or what's important for us as viewers? If you interpret that part of the story that way that's fine, but there you go again speaking on behalf of others. The way I see it, the show is lackluster because it fails to be gripping. And I can only appoint that to the author and his stale writing. BEcause it's pretty obvious what 's the author's intentions are. The main characters are 6 characters who all react differently/have a different approach of war, and the show takes the time to show us how each of them cope with the various violent encounter. It also takes the time to make us feel bad for the losing side, even when it's just wild wolves, for example. When it's so constant like that, it is obviously voluntary from the author. Ther eis no need to be a genius or a prescient to understand that. Also, the In media res type of narration is as old as fictional stories are, so there's no need to be prescient once again to understand how it works and with what purpose it's used in a specific story. Clearly what you're complaining about and wanted go against the very purpose of such narration type to begin with, so there's no way an author would choose to start his story like that if he intended to make you have feelings about that particular event. Yes, yes. I applaud the author's efforts to utilize a narrative technique that is as old as time. For all intents and purposes, I'll go along with your claim that this excuses the shows introduction from being void of emotional depth. But does it excuse the show from its failure to be gripping, to hook the audience in? I'm not against this narrative style but it's done in such a bland way in this. What we have is another "classic" tale of two warring nations with main characters who are dragged into the conflict against their will. Where's the flare? I don't want to be thrown into the middle of a show with such an overused synopsis if it doesn't even bother to include elements that can distinguish it from other stories, especially from the likes of the Tales series which has used this scenario in its most basic form for 20+ years. |
--l--Aug 6, 2016 10:24 AM
Ein said: Zefyris said: BEcause it's pretty obvious what 's the author's intentions are. The main characters are 6 characters who all react differently/have a different approach of war, and the show takes the time to show us how each of them cope with the various violent encounter. It also takes the time to make us feel bad for the losing side, even when it's just wild wolves, for example. When it's so constant like that, it is obviously voluntary from the author. Ther eis no need to be a genius or a prescient to understand that. Also, the In media res type of narration is as old as fictional stories are, so there's no need to be prescient once again to understand how it works and with what purpose it's used in a specific story. Clearly what you're complaining about and wanted go against the very purpose of such narration type to begin with, so there's no way an author would choose to start his story like that if he intended to make you have feelings about that particular event. Yes, yes. I applaud the author's efforts to utilize a narrative technique that is as old as time. For all intents and purposes, I'll go along with your claim that this excuses the shows introduction from being void of emotional depth. But does it excuse the show from its failure to be gripping, to hook the audience in? I'm not against this narrative style but it's done in such a bland way in this. What we have is another "classic" tale of two warring nations with main characters who are dragged into the conflict against their will. Where's the flare? I don't want to be thrown into the middle of a show with such an overused synopsis if it doesn't even bother to include elements that can distinguish it from other stories, especially from the likes of the Tales series which has used this scenario in its most basic form for 20+ years. What are you talking about? Since the first two episodes, there is NO SHOW this season with such strong rating progression. It's hooking peoples more than any other show number wise. If you want to verify my claims, you can do like me and go the club specialized in gathering /monitoring seasonal anime score change. Some of the scores progression in one week are outrageous for Alderamin, you know? It already gained almost 0.3 points in 4 weeks. that's like 3 times more than the second best progression. It's the only anime so far that has progressed every week, and baring the first week of the monitoring, it has been winning the highest weekly progression every week since then. So while this show slipped under the radar and isn't especially strongly followed, those who ARE watching it are in majority hooked. As for what does this shows brings in, if you really don't see any difference with a Tales story, I don't know what to say to you on this. I mean, what about all I said above. How is that even true for one single tales story. |
ZefyrisAug 6, 2016 10:54 AM
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| because it's just not interesting at all and has nothing that makes it stick out. Also, I dislike the artstyle |
| what |
Zefyris said: Ein said: Yes, yes. I applaud the author's efforts to utilize a narrative technique that is as old as time. For all intents and purposes, I'll go along with your claim that this excuses the shows introduction from being void of emotional depth. But does it excuse the show from its failure to be gripping, to hook the audience in? I'm not against this narrative style but it's done in such a bland way in this. What we have is another "classic" tale of two warring nations with main characters who are dragged into the conflict against their will. Where's the flare? I don't want to be thrown into the middle of a show with such an overused synopsis if it doesn't even bother to include elements that can distinguish it from other stories, especially from the likes of the Tales series which has used this scenario in its most basic form for 20+ years. What are you talking about? Since the first two episodes, there is NO SHOW this season with such strong rating progression. It's hooking peoples more than any other show number wise. If you want to verify my claims, you can do like me and go the club specialized in gathering /monitoring seasonal anime score change. Some of the scores progression in one week are outrageous for Alderamin, you know? It already gained almost 0.3 points in 4 weeks. that's like 3 times more than the second best progression. It's the only anime so far that has progressed every week, and baring the first week of the monitoring, it has been winning the highest weekly progression every week since then. So while this show slipped under the radar and isn't especially strongly followed, those who ARE watching it are in majority hooked. As for what does this shows brings in, if you really don't see any difference with a Tales story, I don't know what to say to you on this. I mean, what about all I said above. How is that even true for one single tales story. The rating progression does not matter in this case. In fact, since you brought it up I'll use it to prove my point. The first two episodes earned the show a shit rating which can only mean that the show failed to do its job to grip the audience. Since the rating has improved since that means those who stuck with it nonetheless like the direction the show went in. However, that doesn't change how awful the score at the beginning was. And have you ever played a tales game? Themes of war and different party members' perspectives of it are basically a staple for the series at this point. |
Ein said: Zefyris said: What are you talking about? Since the first two episodes, there is NO SHOW this season with such strong rating progression. It's hooking peoples more than any other show number wise. If you want to verify my claims, you can do like me and go the club specialized in gathering /monitoring seasonal anime score change. Some of the scores progression in one week are outrageous for Alderamin, you know? It already gained almost 0.3 points in 4 weeks. that's like 3 times more than the second best progression. It's the only anime so far that has progressed every week, and baring the first week of the monitoring, it has been winning the highest weekly progression every week since then. So while this show slipped under the radar and isn't especially strongly followed, those who ARE watching it are in majority hooked. As for what does this shows brings in, if you really don't see any difference with a Tales story, I don't know what to say to you on this. I mean, what about all I said above. How is that even true for one single tales story. The rating progression does not matter in this case. In fact, since you brought it up I'll use it to prove my point. The first two episodes earned the show a shit rating which can only mean that the show failed to do its job to grip the audience. Since the rating has improved since that means those who stuck with it nonetheless like the direction the show went in. However, that doesn't change how awful the score at the beginning was. And have you ever played a tales game? Themes of war and different party members' perspectives of it are basically a staple for the series at this point. We come back to what I said earlier. The anime community isn't receptive at all to the in media res story telling and seems to react negatively to it. It's common to pretty much any anime using it, so it's nothing new. Anime watchers seem to be mostly unable to cope with anything out of their ordinary straight forward storytelling to begin with. Except if a well known elitist say it's good. Then they may force themselves coz bandwagoning. Fact is, this is a novel, not an anime, to begin with. And the theme it's using is something that do no really appeal to anime watchers, who are a really niche audience to begin with. There is nothing surprising for it to not be well known and get bad rating at its start. It has little to do with not being good or anything. However, the constant rise of rating since then means that it founds its audience even among anime watchers, and that this audience has yet to be disappointed since then. I'd say that this prove quality. |
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Zefyris said: Ein said: The rating progression does not matter in this case. In fact, since you brought it up I'll use it to prove my point. The first two episodes earned the show a shit rating which can only mean that the show failed to do its job to grip the audience. Since the rating has improved since that means those who stuck with it nonetheless like the direction the show went in. However, that doesn't change how awful the score at the beginning was. And have you ever played a tales game? Themes of war and different party members' perspectives of it are basically a staple for the series at this point. We come back to what I said earlier. The anime community isn't receptive at all to the in media res story telling and seems to react negatively to it. It's common to pretty much any anime using it, so it's nothing new. Anime watchers seem to be mostly unable to cope with anything out of their ordinary straight forward storytelling to begin with. Except if a well known elitist say it's good. Then they may force themselves coz bandwagoning. Fact is, this is a novel, not an anime, to begin with. And the theme it's using is something that do no really appeal to anime watchers, who are a really niche audience to begin with. There is nothing surprising for it to not be well known and get bad rating at its start. It has little to do with not being good or anything. However, the constant rise of rating since then means that it founds its audience even among anime watchers, and that this audience has yet to be disappointed since then. I'd say that this prove quality. Did you seriously imply that this shows low rating has little to do with how bad it is? Are you really misrepresenting the anime community's tastes to justify this shows slow start? If the anime community truly only approved of straightforward story telling, all those time travel anime with convoluted time lines wouldn't be so popular right now. I'd say the anime community saw this show for what it is: a bland synopsis with lackluster execution. The ratings improvement has more to do with the show filtering out those who don't tolerate such things leaving only those who do to remain. Way less to do with the In media res style which I'd argue the average anime viewer didn't even recognize. |
Ein said: Zefyris said: We come back to what I said earlier. The anime community isn't receptive at all to the in media res story telling and seems to react negatively to it. It's common to pretty much any anime using it, so it's nothing new. Anime watchers seem to be mostly unable to cope with anything out of their ordinary straight forward storytelling to begin with. Except if a well known elitist say it's good. Then they may force themselves coz bandwagoning. Fact is, this is a novel, not an anime, to begin with. And the theme it's using is something that do no really appeal to anime watchers, who are a really niche audience to begin with. There is nothing surprising for it to not be well known and get bad rating at its start. It has little to do with not being good or anything. However, the constant rise of rating since then means that it founds its audience even among anime watchers, and that this audience has yet to be disappointed since then. I'd say that this prove quality. Did you seriously imply that this shows low rating has little to do with how bad it is? Are you really misrepresenting the anime community's tastes to justify this shows slow start? If the anime community truly only approved of straightforward story telling, all those time travel anime with convoluted time lines wouldn't be so popular right now. I'd say the anime community saw this show for what it is: a bland synopsis with lackluster execution. The ratings improvement has more to do with the show filtering out those who don't tolerate such things leaving only those who do to remain. Way less to do with the In media res style which I'd argue the average anime viewer didn't even recognize. Well, yes. I mean absolutely amazing shows has lower ratings than that on MAL. all of them have something in common though, being completely outside of what anime watchers usually enjoy. When a media has such a low number of peoples enjoying it to begin with, and such restricted range of stories liked by them because they're mostly a gathering of peoples with specific tastes, obviously if you try something outside of this you"re taking a huge risk that may or may not be rewarded. Rating has nothing to do with quality. Increase or decrease in rating shows that viewers are liking or disliking the new episodes, yes, but it has no meaning for its quality and never will. Did you seriously thought it had any lol? I thought by now that was accepted by everyone on mal that it doesn't have any relation. Guess some peoples still don't accept that simple thing. Time travel IS a subject that is appreciated on mal. Some peoples even made threads dedicated to the surprising popularity they have (and this, is completely independant of those being well done or completely full of plothole. Time travel is a theme that is enjoyed around here, that's it- I enjoy it as well, btw). |
ZefyrisAug 6, 2016 11:43 AM
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Zefyris said: Ein said: Did you seriously imply that this shows low rating has little to do with how bad it is? Are you really misrepresenting the anime community's tastes to justify this shows slow start? If the anime community truly only approved of straightforward story telling, all those time travel anime with convoluted time lines wouldn't be so popular right now. I'd say the anime community saw this show for what it is: a bland synopsis with lackluster execution. The ratings improvement has more to do with the show filtering out those who don't tolerate such things leaving only those who do to remain. Way less to do with the In media res style which I'd argue the average anime viewer didn't even recognize. Well, yes. I mean absolutely amazing shows has lower ratings that that on MAL. all of them have something in common those, completely outside of what anime watchers usually enjoy. When az media has such a low number of peoples and such restricted range of stories liked by them, obviously if yo utry something outside of this you"re taking a huge risk that may or may not be rewarded. Rating has nothing to do with quality. Increase or decrease in quality shows that viewers are liking or disliking the new episodes, but it has no meaning for its quality and never will. Did you seriously thought it had any lol? I thought by now that was accepted by everyone on mal that it doesn't have any relation. Guess some peoples still don't accept that simple thing. Ratings on this site are the aggregation of viewers' evaluation of a shows quality. To say that quality is unrelated to rating is just too idiotic. Those who disagree like yourself are people who enjoyed shows that didn't appeal to the rest of the community. You may disagree with some shows' ratings because you didn't enjoy it as much as you favorites but in the end that's merely your opinion. To discount the rating system because you don't like how it ranks shows is just childish of you. And since we seem to be going off topic let's bring it back to the show. You brought it up before so I'll ask. What part of this shows themes are supposedly not appealing to the anime community? |
Ein said: Zefyris said: Well, yes. I mean absolutely amazing shows has lower ratings that that on MAL. all of them have something in common those, completely outside of what anime watchers usually enjoy. When az media has such a low number of peoples and such restricted range of stories liked by them, obviously if yo utry something outside of this you"re taking a huge risk that may or may not be rewarded. Rating has nothing to do with quality. Increase or decrease in quality shows that viewers are liking or disliking the new episodes, but it has no meaning for its quality and never will. Did you seriously thought it had any lol? I thought by now that was accepted by everyone on mal that it doesn't have any relation. Guess some peoples still don't accept that simple thing. Ratings on this site are the aggregation of viewers' evaluation of a shows quality. To say that quality is unrelated to rating is just too idiotic. Those who disagree like yourself are people who enjoyed shows that didn't appeal to the rest of the community. You may disagree with some shows' ratings because you didn't enjoy it as much as you favorites but in the end that's merely your opinion. To discount the rating system because you don't like how it ranks shows is just childish of you. And since we seem to be going off topic let's bring it back to the show. You brought it up before so I'll ask. What part of this shows themes are supposedly not appealing to the anime community? No, they're an aggregation of how much entertinament they could get from shows, and you'll obviously not get especially a lot of entertainment from a show about something yo'ure not interested in/not enjoy in the first place. Really, that should be obvious... If you want to discuss about that, open a thread in the anime general, tho, as this isn't really a subject about alderamin anymore. But, yeah, if you think scores= quality, that's quite delusional. Yeah, that's my opinion about those shows, of course. Just like every single rating used to make that mean score is the personal opinion of someone, who simply enjoyed, or not enjoyed a show. Quality doesn't have a place here. It never had and will never have. Before calling me childish, isn't it because your favourite shows are fairly well rated that you want to believe that rating = quality despite the obvious mismatch between the two? Better look at your own motivations here before callign other childish lol x). no romance, no school life, no harem, no ecchi, no artificial "feels", no moe, no over the top fights (very little fights actually), no straight forward story telling at the beginning, no huge popular fantasy elements like elves, dragons, whatever, political and military setting that focus more on realism than on big impressive battles, a story telling that makes more the viewer uncomfortable about war than making them want to cheer for the blood spilled by making the opposite side look very human, young adults rather than high schooler type of MC, nuanced characters rather than aiming for likeable characters all the way, and so on. All of this is logical considering the aim of the story, buuuuut... In anime ? Really? When I heard about it receiving an anime adaptation, I already predicted it would be interesting for too few peoples to sell well, that was obvious. It was the same with RnY for a little different reason, and it indeed didn't sell. |
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Zefyris said: Ein said: Ratings on this site are the aggregation of viewers' evaluation of a shows quality. To say that quality is unrelated to rating is just too idiotic. Those who disagree like yourself are people who enjoyed shows that didn't appeal to the rest of the community. You may disagree with some shows' ratings because you didn't enjoy it as much as you favorites but in the end that's merely your opinion. To discount the rating system because you don't like how it ranks shows is just childish of you. And since we seem to be going off topic let's bring it back to the show. You brought it up before so I'll ask. What part of this shows themes are supposedly not appealing to the anime community? No, they're an aggregation of how much entertinament they could get from shows, and you'll obviously not get especially a lot of entertainment from a show about something yo'ure not interested in/not enjoy in the first place. Really, that should be obvious... If you want to discuss about that, open a thread in the anime general, tho, as this isn't really a subject about alderamin anymore. But, yeah, if you think scores= quality, that's quite delusional. Yeah, that's my opinion about those shows, of course. Just like every single rating used to make that mean score is the personal opinion of someone, who simply enjoyed, or not enjoyed a show. Quality doesn't have a place here. It never had and will never have. Before calling me childish, isn't it because your favourite shows are fairly well rated that you want to believe that rating = quality despite the obvious mismatch between the two? Better look at your own motivations here before callign other childish lol x). no romance, no school life, no harem, no ecchi, no artificial "feels", no moe, no over the top fights (very little fights actually), no straight forward story telling at the beginning, no huge popular fantasy elements like elves, dragons, whatever, political and military setting that focus more on realism than on big impressive battles, a story telling that makes more the viewer uncomfortable about war than making them want to cheer for the blood spilled by making the opposite side look very human, young adults rather than high schooler type of MC, nuanced characters rather than aiming for likeable characters all the way, and so on. All of this is logical considering the aim of the story, buuuuut... In anime ? Really? When I heard about it receiving an anime adaptation, I already predicted it would be interesting for too few peoples to sell well, that was obvious. It was the same with RnY for a little different reason, and it indeed didn't sell. Entertainment is a derivative of quality. If a show manages to entertain an audience then it successfully appealed its quality to them. I'm not saying that the scores are absolute or that I agree with them completely, but really, you can't say that a shows quality isn't reflected by its score to a certain extent. And idk why you brought up my favorites as if I have some sort of hidden agenda lol. Anyway for the rest of the stuff you brought up: this show is in fact set in a school and no one would argue against the fact that some of the girls are portrayed to be Moe especially the princess girl (really the author had to go out of his way to turn her into a cute little girl in this "serious" war story?) no matter how janky their lips look. And idk about you but that fight scene in episode 4 seemed pretty over the top to me. Do you mean to suggest that an average anime viewer wouldn't approve of a hot red haired chick singlehandedly taking out a band of armored dudes with blood splashing everywhere? None of these things are themes anyway so idk why you brought them up in the first place. You might wanna brush up on some vocab. And there you go again misrepresenting the anime community as a whole. God forbid an anime makes the viewer uncomfortable. It's almost like they forgot we're a bunch of manchildren who can only appreciate something that's flashy and extravagant. |
Ein said: Zefyris said: No, they're an aggregation of how much entertinament they could get from shows, and you'll obviously not get especially a lot of entertainment from a show about something yo'ure not interested in/not enjoy in the first place. Really, that should be obvious... If you want to discuss about that, open a thread in the anime general, tho, as this isn't really a subject about alderamin anymore. But, yeah, if you think scores= quality, that's quite delusional. Yeah, that's my opinion about those shows, of course. Just like every single rating used to make that mean score is the personal opinion of someone, who simply enjoyed, or not enjoyed a show. Quality doesn't have a place here. It never had and will never have. Before calling me childish, isn't it because your favourite shows are fairly well rated that you want to believe that rating = quality despite the obvious mismatch between the two? Better look at your own motivations here before callign other childish lol x). no romance, no school life, no harem, no ecchi, no artificial "feels", no moe, no over the top fights (very little fights actually), no straight forward story telling at the beginning, no huge popular fantasy elements like elves, dragons, whatever, political and military setting that focus more on realism than on big impressive battles, a story telling that makes more the viewer uncomfortable about war than making them want to cheer for the blood spilled by making the opposite side look very human, young adults rather than high schooler type of MC, nuanced characters rather than aiming for likeable characters all the way, and so on. All of this is logical considering the aim of the story, buuuuut... In anime ? Really? When I heard about it receiving an anime adaptation, I already predicted it would be interesting for too few peoples to sell well, that was obvious. It was the same with RnY for a little different reason, and it indeed didn't sell. Entertainment is a derivative of quality. If a show manages to entertain an audience then it successfully appealed its quality to them. I'm not saying that the scores are absolute or that I agree with them completely, but really, you can't say that a shows quality isn't reflected by its score to a certain extent. And idk why you brought up my favorites as if I have some sort of hidden agenda lol. Anyway for the rest of the stuff you brought up: this show is in fact set in a school and no one would argue against the fact that some of the girls are portrayed to be Moe especially the princess girl (really the author had to go out of his way to turn her into a cute little girl in this "serious" war story?) no matter how janky their lips look. And idk about you but that fight scene in episode 4 seemed pretty over the top to me. Do you mean to suggest that an average anime viewer wouldn't approve of a hot red haired chick singlehandedly taking out a band of armored dudes with blood splashing everywhere? None of these things are themes anyway so idk why you brought them up in the first place. You might wanna brush up on some vocab. And there you go again misrepresenting the anime community as a whole. God forbid an anime makes the viewer uncomfortable. It's almost like they forgot we're a bunch of manchildren who can only appreciate something that's flashy and extravagant. nonono, we're stopping right here. At "entertainment is a derivative of quality". I' not even reading the rest of your post this time, to be honest, that's just too much. Entertainment is completely dependent of the audience's preference, and especially in a case of an adaptation, the initial audience it was intended to please may be quite difference from the audience of the adaptation. This doesn't make the work bad. Just, not touching its targeted audience. This isn't even a problem with a work anymore, it can be a problem with the company advertising the work that didn't manage to reach the correct peoples by being clear enough/vocal enough about what that works is about. For example with alderamin, the advertisement part was especially badly done if you followed what happened. And as a matter of fact, lots of viewers went in viewing alderamin with completely different expectation compared what it really was. In some case it resulted in a pleasant surprise, but in other in not being interested at all, and as a wider problem, it simply is currently resulting in that a part of the population that could have been interested in it is no even watching it. So yeah, we're stopping right here. The moment you use as an argument such kind of things, don't expect me to hang out with you arguing about that subject any longer. I like to be logical, you know. Before building something (here, a proper argument) , if your foundations for it (ie, your basic knowledge) aren't even properly built, you cannot build anything stable anyway. |
ZefyrisAug 6, 2016 1:39 PM
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Zefyris said: Ein said: Entertainment is a derivative of quality. If a show manages to entertain an audience then it successfully appealed its quality to them. I'm not saying that the scores are absolute or that I agree with them completely, but really, you can't say that a shows quality isn't reflected by its score to a certain extent. And idk why you brought up my favorites as if I have some sort of hidden agenda lol. Anyway for the rest of the stuff you brought up: this show is in fact set in a school and no one would argue against the fact that some of the girls are portrayed to be Moe especially the princess girl (really the author had to go out of his way to turn her into a cute little girl in this "serious" war story?) no matter how janky their lips look. And idk about you but that fight scene in episode 4 seemed pretty over the top to me. Do you mean to suggest that an average anime viewer wouldn't approve of a hot red haired chick singlehandedly taking out a band of armored dudes with blood splashing everywhere? None of these things are themes anyway so idk why you brought them up in the first place. You might wanna brush up on some vocab. And there you go again misrepresenting the anime community as a whole. God forbid an anime makes the viewer uncomfortable. It's almost like they forgot we're a bunch of manchildren who can only appreciate something that's flashy and extravagant. nono, we stop right here. At "entertainment is a derivative of quality. Entertainment is completely dependent of the audience's preference, and especially in a case of an adaptation, the initial audience it was intended to pleas emay be quite difference from the audience of the adaptation. This doesn't make the work bad. Just, not touching its targeted audience. This isn't even a problem with a work anymore, it's a problem with the company advertising the work that didn't manage to reach the correct peoples by being clear enough about what that works is about. For example with aldermain, the advertisement part was especially badly done if you followed what happened. And as a matter of fact, lots of viewers went in viewing alderamin with completely different expectation from what it really was. In some case it resulted in pleasant surprise, but in other in not being interested at all, and as a wider problem, it simply is currently resulting in a part of the population that could have been interested in it no even watching it. So yeah, we're stopping right here. The moment you use as an argument such kind of things, don't expect me to hang out with you arguing about that subject any longer. I'd appreciate if you wouldn't branch off into useless topics. I don't care how this show was advertised nor is that the point of this thread. Entertainment is made up of the audience's impression of a show. What affects a viewer's impression? Quality. The two are linked in some way. So instead of running from the debate, can you address the points that I made in the second and third paragraphs? You're the one that wanted to stay on topic yet you want to bail now with "I can't keep up with this idiocy". |
Ein said: Zefyris said: nono, we stop right here. At "entertainment is a derivative of quality. Entertainment is completely dependent of the audience's preference, and especially in a case of an adaptation, the initial audience it was intended to pleas emay be quite difference from the audience of the adaptation. This doesn't make the work bad. Just, not touching its targeted audience. This isn't even a problem with a work anymore, it's a problem with the company advertising the work that didn't manage to reach the correct peoples by being clear enough about what that works is about. For example with aldermain, the advertisement part was especially badly done if you followed what happened. And as a matter of fact, lots of viewers went in viewing alderamin with completely different expectation from what it really was. In some case it resulted in pleasant surprise, but in other in not being interested at all, and as a wider problem, it simply is currently resulting in a part of the population that could have been interested in it no even watching it. So yeah, we're stopping right here. The moment you use as an argument such kind of things, don't expect me to hang out with you arguing about that subject any longer. I'd appreciate if you wouldn't branch off into useless topics. I don't care how this show was advertised nor is that the point of this thread. Entertainment is made up of the audience's impression of a show. What affects a view's impression? Quality. The two are linked in some way. So instead of running from the debate, can you address the points that I made in the second and third paragraphs? You're the one that wanted to stay on topic yet you want to bail now with "I can't keep up with this idiocy". Actually it has everything to do with this thread. Why so underrated? Cause badly advertised. Didn't reach the correct audience due to this. Seems like you're really struggling with basic logical thinking right now. LAck of sleep or whatever i don't know, but anyway, have a good day (night?). Also I read a bit , but you talking about something that happened in the FOURTH episode which is basically THE scene that pleased anime watchers and made the rating skyrocket the most since the start with a whoping +0.15 in one week which is -according to the club monitoring scores-absolutely crazy for a one week jump only confirms what I said. BTW watchers rejoicing about good peoples being murdered brutally seems to demonstrate that even in that scene right now, this show is having a hard time to find its correct community. Well if they enjoy there's no problem as an entertainment for them, but that's a bit sad that this show is struggling so much to find an audience it was supposed to reach. On top of not being the kind of show anime community like to begin with, the advertising was seriously bad. So yeah, they can enjoy that scene, and they enjoyed it, and the rating went up as a result. Not because that scene was better than the rest, but because that's more in line with what an anime audience likes. My point stands just as much as before. |
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Zefyris said: Ein said: I'd appreciate if you wouldn't branch off into useless topics. I don't care how this show was advertised nor is that the point of this thread. Entertainment is made up of the audience's impression of a show. What affects a view's impression? Quality. The two are linked in some way. So instead of running from the debate, can you address the points that I made in the second and third paragraphs? You're the one that wanted to stay on topic yet you want to bail now with "I can't keep up with this idiocy". Actually it has everything to do with this thread. Why so underrated? Cause badly advertised. Didn't reach the correct audience due to this. Seems like you're really struggling with basic logical thinking right now. LAck of sleep or whatever i don't know, but anyway, have a good day (night?). Also I read a bit , but you talking about something that happened in the FOURTH episode which is basically THE scene that pleased anime watchers and made the rating skyrocket the most since the start with a whoping +0.15 in one week which is -according to the club monitoring scores-absolutely crazy for a one week jump only confirms what I said. BTW watchers rejoicing about good peoples being murdered brutally seems to demonstrate that even in that scene right now, this show is having a hard time to find its correct community. Well if they enjoy there's no problem as an entertainment for them, but that's a bit sad that this show is struggling so much to find an audience it was supposed to reach. On top of not being the kind of show anime community like to begin with, the advertising was seriously bad. So yeah, they can enjoy that scene, and they enjoyed it, and the rating went up as a result. Not because that scene was better than the rest, but because that's more in line with what an anime audience likes. My point stands just as much as before. So the type of audience that would enjoy that scene was with the show for the episode that aired just last week? Huh. That seems to contradict what you said about the rating going up because only the people who appreciate this anime for its narrative technique stuck with the show. Hmm, what was that thing you said about basic thinking? Also a shows advertisement has nothing to do with its mal score. The rating judges the show, not it's market strategy. |
--l--Aug 6, 2016 2:19 PM
Ein said: Zefyris said: Actually it has everything to do with this thread. Why so underrated? Cause badly advertised. Didn't reach the correct audience due to this. Seems like you're really struggling with basic logical thinking right now. LAck of sleep or whatever i don't know, but anyway, have a good day (night?). Also I read a bit , but you talking about something that happened in the FOURTH episode which is basically THE scene that pleased anime watchers and made the rating skyrocket the most since the start with a whoping +0.15 in one week which is -according to the club monitoring scores-absolutely crazy for a one week jump only confirms what I said. BTW watchers rejoicing about good peoples being murdered brutally seems to demonstrate that even in that scene right now, this show is having a hard time to find its correct community. Well if they enjoy there's no problem as an entertainment for them, but that's a bit sad that this show is struggling so much to find an audience it was supposed to reach. On top of not being the kind of show anime community like to begin with, the advertising was seriously bad. So yeah, they can enjoy that scene, and they enjoyed it, and the rating went up as a result. Not because that scene was better than the rest, but because that's more in line with what an anime audience likes. My point stands just as much as before. So the type of audience that would enjoy that scene was with the show for the episode that aired just last week? Huh. That seems to contradict what you said about the rating going up because only the people who appreciate this anime for its narrative technique stuck with the show. Hmm, what was that thing you said about basic thinking? I never said that. Are we going to talk about basic reading skill now? I said that the remaining audience was able to enjoy the show. Not why it was enjoying it. The current audience appreciate it for stuff like that scene in episode 4, yes. That's why it's rising so much now. Because even though it didn't really find the audience it should have found out, it still manage to be so good that even other peoples outside of this audience can still really appreciate it. Which is fine. Usually peoples enjoying something aren't only peoples originally intended. |
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