Japan's Weekly Manga Rankings for Jun 6 - 12

bigivelfhq said:

The "best arc in Toriko" you're saying was butchered, was the last arc adapted. They were ending the anime at that point. People had already 3 years to decide to become fans of the manga. They didn't. At that point, the series wasn't in growth anymore, in a long time.

They had a really good idea in how to market Toriko. In fact Toriko, like all the author series, where always mega popular with kids and always were mega popular in the magazine, but didn't sell as well in volume.
Who do you think where the people that were constantly sending drawing of new ingredients? Adults? Nope, Kids!

Toriko only has 5 games. 1 in 2011, the year of the anime. 2 in 2012 and other 2 in 2013. I don't see how that comes even closer of oversaturation.

Toriko just wasn't as popular as you wished for, things like that happen all the time. In fact the companies expect this, because something becoming mega popular is the rare thing.

ichii_1 said:


Okay dragonball got popular again and Toriko lost some steam I get it (which is hilarious since they ended the first DB Kai with a 9% avg TV ratings cause of low merch sales and don't give me that "buu saga wasn't planned" bs), but to just throw toriko into the gutter like they did just shows how money grubbing Toei is.
"building a strong franchise? planning for the future? nah it's losing sales so let's dump it".

Releasing so many games that are all pretty similar is not good and reeks of over saturation or is it money grubbing?, sales went from 300K to 20K and pretty much scared off all the game investors with it.

Yeah they got their cash in the fist 2 years then bailed (what do you think about a 50 ep sequel for a quick cash in? is it possible?)

geralt said:
Nice to see OPM had a really good second week, I could see this volume reach 750k before dropping off the list.

I'm also quite impressed by HxH's sales. Gotta hand it to the HxH fanbase, I don't think many manga could take a 2 years break and still sell incredibly when returning.

keragamming said:


I think you and many are giving hxh way too much credit than it deserve. D.Grayman is in the same boat as hxh and its still selling well as well.

I don't see why anyone that have bought 32 volumes of hxh would decide not to buy the 33 volume, simple because it took more than 3 years to be released, not to mention that volume are cheap over at Japan. I could only understand if they didn't enjoy the previous volume.

No matter how many years the product has been delayed or on hiatus For once its release fans will eat it up, that's only if they like it. On some rare occation they may truly lose interest and don't buy the volume.

Its the same with snk anime, a lot of fans of the series has said they have lost interest in the series due to the 3 years hiatus, but you can bet 1 million dollar once it starts to air, you wont see anyone saying that they wont watch snk season 2 because it took too long to air.

Point is, I don't believe things like hiatus or delay will affect a product that much tbh. Heck it could have a reverse effect like hxh manga returning and people are having orgasm over its return and calling every new release chapter a masterpiece even though most of them is mediocre at best so far.

bigivelfhq said:


People with the DB Kai low merch. With the Toriko crossover push, With the DB GT flop. Nothing of those things is even remotely true. But let's believe it, because it gives reason to complain. OK.

DB Kai, "low Merch" was still huge. Let's see:

Bandai Sales (Biggest Sponsor of DB and One Piece franchises) -> Billion Yen
2009 - 15.5(Dragon Ball), 6.3 (OP)
2010 - 11(DB), 22.2 (OP)
2011 - 16.2(DB), 40(OP), <10(Toriko)
--- After Anime ---
2012- 13.7(DB), 42.2(OP), <13.6(Toriko)

Bandai didn't had any problem with 2 years of 6.3 Billion of One Piece(and previous years was doing worse), but it would have with the 11 Billion of DB Kai! Really?

Overall Merchandise -> Billion Yen
2008 - 209.4 (DB), 73.9 (OP), 107.8 (Naruto)
2009(No Data)
2010 - 205.4 (DB), 407.5 (OP), 72.8 (Naruto)
2011 - 78.7 (DB), 727.5 (OP), 65.8 (Naruto)
--- After Anime ---
2012 - 76.7 (DB), 658.9 (OP), 61.4(Naruto), 19.9(Toriko)

If Naruto is highly popular with 61 Billion and is still in TOP 50 Character Merchandise with that, There is no reason that Dragon Ball with 75+ doesn't.

Toei Animation (Domestic and Overseas Licensing + Overseas Film) ->Billion Yen
2009 - 3.1 (DB), 1.1 (OP)
2010 - 2.0 (DB), 4.1(OP)
2011 - 1.3 (DB), 5.8(OP), 0.2 (Toriko)
--- After Anime ---
2012 - 1.1 (DB), 5.3(OP), 0.2(Toriko)

During 1+ Billion Yen of Dragon Ball, it was the 2nd best profitable series of Toei!


If instead of baseless and directed to complain statements, if we look at the modus operandi of Toei when it pertains to old returning franchises(or extensions like GT), is obvious that they return just for around 1 to 2 years, 50-100 episodes. We have the examples of Sally the Witch, Himitsu no Akko-chan, Gegege no Kitaro, Dr. Slump, Tiger Mask, Saint Seiya and more. Dragon Ball simply wasn't an exception. In fact supposedly Dragon Ball Super is also planned for around 100 episodes. It obviously has nothing to do with the series performance. If Toei wanted, and if it was just a question of money, they could very easily and with good earnings of money, kept Dragon Ball Kai until the end of Buu Saga.

"just throw Toriko into the gutter like they did just shows how money grubbing Toei is" -> What other way of cancelling an anime there is? This is just another complain, just for the sake of complaining. They have limited resources, Dragon Ball was got hot again, and Toriko was cold. It makes all sense to get rid of cold and get the hot. Note that if were no resources limitation, they could very well keep both series. That would bring more money. Though in planning, people have to make important decisions.
Also Toriko ended at the end of the Human World, that is way better than ending in a random part like Gangsta!

"building a strong franchise? Planning for the future? nah it's losing sales let's dump it" -> You know that an anime franchise in average takes around 1 year in Toei right? And if we look at other studios right now is closer to just 1 season, right? Toriko got 3 years. 1 season is enough to build a franchise, just accept it. Toriko wasn't a strong enough franchise! Simple as that. Planning for the future. What future are you talking about? Don't you know that Toriko was trending downwards. Just because you like the series, you should not be naive or stupid to expect a miracle, and even less expect that a company that is risking its money(a lot of money) will bet in that "miracle".

All Toriko games were made by Bandai. That is the normal way Bandai does things. They send 1-2 and sometimes even 3 games per year of a franchise.

"They got their cash in the first 2 years then bailed" -> I didn't wanted to say this but your making me. Do you understand that Dragon Ball in the year right after the end of Dragon Ball kai, earned more money to Toei than the entire 3 years of Toriko? Yep!
The same can be said for Bandai Sales and Overall Merchandise. And at the time Dragon Ball Kai returned DB was getting a huge resurgence. Only a blind person wouldn't know that they had to invest in DB. And the result of that Investment?

(Billion Yen)
Bandai -> 46.5(DB)
Toei Animation -> 5.1(DB)

Basically at One Piece Level!

tsudecimo said:

What kind of arbitrary judgement is this? you are saying HxH anime was more successful because of a manga boost, but denying the same for Toriko based on the fact it lost popularity later on? Who cares dude. Fact is Toriko anime boosted the sales to 4 millions. Toriko wasn't even able to enter top 50 yearly, one year before.

You answered your own question. It had better TV ratings. Which is more important as a measure of anime's success, than a boost. Which Toriko already did anyway, and it was more than HxH's. So I'm not sure what are you even getting at here, aside from using a future sales point as basis to discredit the actual relevant statistics of Toriko's anime success.

HxH didn't plummet in popularity because it didn't need an anime to be popular in the first place. The same thing isn't true for Toriko, and that's about it.

alpha_shadow said:


Of course it had good tv ratings on the best time slot for anime, airing right before One Piece, it was automatically gonna have good ratings, which doesn't mean much tbh. And it's not like Toriko managed to stay relevant after that, the manga ain't even in the top 30 best sellers by series in 2014, 2015 and 2016 so far and that shows just how effective that anime was, with its 147 episodes and good ratings. ;)

WhiteFlamee said:

do u know how well the ufotable OVA sold? I saw this on a toriko chapter and it said that in went on sale
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3iABN8GRgno/TlRvCU_yMgI/AAAAAAAADqc/OvKLaYwanuc/s0/001.jpg

so how much copies did the JSAT OVA for Toriko sell?

lukeycow said:


Totally agree here. If someone invests the time to read a significant amount of volumes of a series and they enjoy it, even if it's years before the next one they're not just going to drop it unless they're the minority that gets overly frustrated for no reason. I have never considered for a second dropping the series with long Hiatuses, if anything I eagerly await their return and look forward to them more than series i read weekly. "You don't realise what you have until you've lost it." Sorta like that.

I think you'll struggle to find people that have stopped reading HxH after catching up just because of the Hiatuses. Same with DGM and Berserk. If anything it rehypes the series and makes it sell better than normal because everyone's been waiting so long. Plus there would be new readers who have caught up which would also counteract those who do drop it. HXH, D Gray Man and Berserk are all series I've read recently between their last volumes release and now, and I'm sure there are many others like me.

keragamming said:


Saying hxh is almost close to snk level is like saying snk is close to one piece level, I'm sure if I said that, you and the entire one piece brigade would be giving me sales figures telling me that snk isn't on one piece level. excluding the terrible sales of volume 19 which is around 1.6/1.7 million limited edition included, even with volume 19 poor sales snk is still at least 600k above hxh currently. Snk normally sells over 2 million and to my knowledge hxh sells a little over 1 million, like 1.1 or 1.2 million. If I'm correct naruto sells a bit more than hxh in terms of per volume sales.

So if you're going to say that hxh is close to snk level for selling 900k, you might as well add naruto, assclass, tokyo ghoul and haikyuu as well, since they all sell over 1 million. I know you guys are excited for hxh, but at least keep a level head and make sure what you're saying makes sense.

AdmiralKizaru98 said:

Why are you always bringing up One Piece? But anyway what you are saying so wrong , I cant even... Hxh sold 940k in 10 days and all the manga sell around 900k in a whole year and you are putting it in the same shelf as those. Also you are taking sales of 2012, which are not relevant now, because this Hxh volume sold much more. Hxh will probably have around 1,4 million sales in the end. Thats only 300 or 400 k less than the new Snk volume. And the difference between Snk and One Piece is atleast double of that difference.

AdmiralKizaru98 said:

Why are you always bringing up One Piece? But anyway what you are saying so wrong , I cant even... Hxh sold 940k in 10 days and all the manga sell around 900k in a whole year and you are putting it in the same shelf as those. Also you are taking sales of 2012, which are not relevant now, because this Hxh volume sold much more. Hxh will probably have around 1,4 million sales in the end. Thats only 300 or 400 k less than the new Snk volume. And the difference between Snk and One Piece is atleast double of that difference.

bigivelfhq said:
Toriko wasn't a strong enough franchise! Simple as that. Planning for the future. What future are you talking about? Don't you know that Toriko was trending downwards.

I didn't wanted to say this but your making me. Do you understand that Dragon Ball in the year right after the end of Dragon Ball kai, earned more money to Toei than the entire 3 years of Toriko? Yep!

ichii_1 said:


No it's not simple, the main problem is expecting prime DB/OP sales in the first place.
The future is long term investments especially with a series like Toriko, it was going downwards? I understand but at least end it properly and keep it as an option for later.
DB and OP also had periods where they were trending downwards, I don't see them in the trash.

bigivelfhq said:

What for you is a long term investment? How many years? Because Saint Seiya and Slam Dunk during their times were many time more popular than Toriko and only were given 2 years! And you know what, Slam Dunk still doesn't have adapted the last part.
Toriko got the treatment of Gash Bell, and Gash Bell is more popular than Toriko.

"especially with a series like Toriko" -> What is there so exceptional, noteworthy, or particular about Toriko series? The fact that you love it?

Toriko is still a property of Toei animation, so is always an option. You're talking about the company that best utilizes its past library, while saying that they do quite the opposite.

DB and OP not only got high way above Toriko, but also lows way above it. And also none of them had in a situation where in a situation of direct competition with a way bigger series, that was in an upward direction. Toriko was, with Dragon Ball!

Agafin said:
@keragamming

I'm not trying to start a debate here. I told you that I was about to explain why a hiatus would normally slow down the sales of a manga but didn't do so because of that comment of yours. You were wondering how well the manga would do coming off such a long break which means that you knew that keeping its sales stable wasn't a given like you're trying to imply here, hence the contradiction.

Btw, D-Gray man is not doing as well as the previous volume. It's about 40k below and sold 15k less this week alone so the gap is widening. A similar drop for HxH would have led it to not even reach 800k this week. So DGM is actually proof that keeping your sales stable after a long break (or increasing like this HxH volume is doing) is no easy task. You have to realise that most of these manga buyers are not hardcore fans like you and I. They don't have an account in a manga listing site to keep track of what they're reading.

ichii_1 said:


Long term investment isn't just airing for a year or 2, it's still being a force decades later and making money (more than just licencing and other stuff), just because it doesn't make blockbuster level money doesn't mean dumping it.
And yes Toei has enough resources to hire more staff to produce those series and make a good profit but they don't, because who cares about growing the company right? as long as they get muh dragonball and one piece money.

>the company that best utilizes its past library, while saying that they do quite the opposite
They didn't even complete slamdunk when it was at it's prime, only further proving they just want big franchises immediately and even good selling ones will be shoved into the back burner, guess what? gash bell could still bring even more money even if they adapted the rest 7 years later.

> What is there so exceptional, noteworthy, or particular about Toriko series? The fact that you love it?

The fact that everybody loved it enough for Toei to think it was OP level potential but instead we got some whatever anime that doesn't fully emphasize what Toriko is about.

bigivelfhq said:

The company already have a lot of long term series that they invest. It makes no sense to being adding series with less success. Though those series with lesser success aren't totally discarded. Toriko and World Trigger, and others .

Also where did you heard that Toei thought that Toriko was OP Level?

ichii_1 said:


I'll end this here, I guess we'll just have to wait and see then if they invest in Toriko again then.

Being pushed heavily along with not only OP but DB implies that.

tsudecimo said:
relevant I guess.

330,571　Berserk 35 (2010)
319,237　Berserk 36 (2011)
336,432　Berserk 37 (2013)

vol.35 & 36 had only 2 months to sell but it means the sales didn't drop anyway.

bigivelfhq said:

Chopper got a crossover with Hello Kitty(that alone is bigger than One Piece merchandise wise). Does that means they thought Chopper was in the same level as Hello Kitty? Obviously not.

WhiteFlamee said:


wow are berserk sales that low? how is at 40 million copies sold according to wiki?

@bigivelfhq

so with that information you posted you think Toriko anime will return one day? Obviously after rebooting other titles like dr.slump ofc. I thought Toriko was at a decline so why would they pick it up if the ratings were dropping before the anime end?

Toriko anime could use a timeslot change if it comes back. idk if Toei would want to do that but maybe a evening timelot. While the Toriko anime was good it could use some improvements to live up to the manga.

bigivelfhq said:


Berserk decreased sales along the years! And there is also the backlog sales along the years.

About it returning, maybe yes, maybe not. But the probability is low. Toei Animation not only has the Current Strong Long running investments series, and the Strong Old investments that will certainly return someday, but they will also invest in new things. They also have old strong titles that never got a remake, and it seems is just waiting for it like Slam Dunk, but is possible that the studio lost the rights of the series, who knows.
After All that there are still a good number of series in Toriko "situation". Like Gatch Bell, World Trigger and so.

Toei Animation is a too big and successful studio, they have to many potential stuff to do in the future. For one side is good, because the company going down is almost impossible, but unfortunately they don't have all the time to every series.

I never understand the timeslot change people talk about Toriko. Its seems like people are delusional or they don't know the concept and focus of the series. We're talking of a series where everything in the world turns to be about gourmet, and where there is a ton of exaggeration and ridiculous stuff, in both fights, feats and interactions. That is totally an infantile concept. Just because the series has some sprinkle of violence and edge, doesn't mean it will attract "mature" audiences. In fact the series before and after the anime is highly popular to the young kids!

Is funny people say the anime as to live up to the manga, but the anime is way more popular than it. Both in Japan and overseas!
Is totally the opposite though, the manga is the one that needs to life up to the anime.
And note that the manga had 3 years to show what it was worth, and it showed that is not as much as what people love to talk and believe here.

by evening timeslot are you talking of what? Primetime?
I hardly believe Toei Animation will get a new timeslot just to place Toriko!

@ichii_1

What being a newcomer, being more gar and macho, heavily promoted(Toriko wasn't really promoted the hell out of it), as anything to do with Them thinking that Toriko was the same level of One Piece?

WhiteFlamee said:


u dont read the manga do u? It feels like youre an anime only or just biased with toei animation. if a majority of manga fans are saying the anime doesnt live up to the manga then odds are they are right.

i am not talking about censorship when i say it doesnt live up to the manga btw.

bigivelfhq said:


I'm both a reader and a watcher! In fact first a reader!

Majority of manga fans? LOL. You're talking of the complainers here in the "western" internet, and specially here in MAL. Though you're talking about the popularity of the series, that doesn't have nothing to do with MAL nor the "western" internet.

Is funny how this people that say the anime doesn't live up to the manga and complain without stop about it, but they can't see something as simple as the fact that the anime is way more popular than the manga(volume form). I will like an explanation why the anime that doesn't live up to the manga ended in front of it, instead of the opposite!

If the anime doesn't live up to the manga, why didn't it ended like Tokyo Ghoul or Terra Formars? Volume selling a lot, but anime not doing that well. Why do you think it ended opposite to them?

WhiteFlamee said:


oh okay

how do you know people in japan thinks the anime lived up to manga. they could of appreciated both

let me clarify. when i said live up to manga i mean adapt the manga. obviously the anime is way more popular than the manga. if toriko manga had to live up to anime then it would have to sell way more than double. i dont see that happening ever

tokyo ghoul is best seinen manga in existence that is why it did well. toriko manga uses a extremely old school style (muscle men) and a lot of blood and gore.

bigivelfhq said:


If a good junk of people think that the anime doesn't live up to the manga, than also a good junk of people would stop watching the anime in a regular base and just stay with the manga. In fact that being the case word of mouth would attract people to the manga and repel people to the anime.
Appreciating both, is different of "anime not living up to manga". If you appreciate both, you think both are fine the way they are.

Is not about Tokyo Ghoul being the best Seinen manga or not, is the fact that the Manga sells ridiculously high, while the anime didn't sell anything close to comparable(3k disk sales. TV ratings due to being nighttime did little to). The same with Terra Formars(even more pronounced than Tokyo Ghoul).
People also love to complain that their anime don't live up to their respective manga. In this case the results seem to go in the direction of their "theory".
Toriko is the exact opposite.

keragamming said:

Exactly, hence why I said it would be rare that it would happen, I knew there is a chance that the Hiatus could affect the sales, but it was a slim chance, the point I'm getting at is that you guys are making it sound like it is a big accomplishment for a series to be on hiatus for 2 to 3 years and stll maintain its sales, which it isn't.

D-Grayman is just one example, and 40k sales isn't a big drop and it could still recover during the months just like snk does occasionally, not to mention hxh had a anime recently that just ended in 2014, D-grayman anime ended since 2008 that's close to a decade ago, so the comparison is even unfair, so even if hxh had lost some fans, the boost from the 2011 anime would overlap those lost fans and the sales will be naturally better than before.

WhiteFlamee said:

wow are berserk sales that low? how is at 40 million copies sold according to wiki?

Agafin said:

Shouldn't the anime work against it though? It had an anime at the time the last volume was released, now it doesn't so you would expect the sales to drop given that with or without a break most manga have their sales drop after their anime ends.

Anyway, you know what? You're probably right that I'm overpraising it. It's hard to not be biased when it comes to something you like. There's very few similar cases (manga coming back after extended breaks) so categorically saying whether it's praiseworthy or not is tough.


Those are worldwide sales (prints to be more precise). I don't know where the 40 million comes from though. The last update I've heard of from Young Animal is that it had 35 million copies in circulation worldwide as of July 2015 (27 million from Japan and 8 million overseas) so I definitely don't think it has sold 5 million copies since then, especially with no new volume released.