Raimu4 said: miradesu said: There'll always be that bunch of idiots who will encourage racism and islamophobia. People are so scared but yet careless of all this terror happening in the world that they feel the need to blame it on anyone who never wished for this to happen, they feel the need to be ignorant so it would look like they are protecting something. It's sad. Yes we are the ignorant ones, muslims are great people that respect women like you! Sure all the latest terrorist attacks have been carried out in the name of Islam by muslims but hey thats just a coincidence right? I mean we are such racist scumbags compared to the peaceful muslims that do not act hatefull towards homosexuals and jews at all. It seems like women are alright with all this muslim mass immigration as long as they can keep their Ugg boots and their frappuccinos, well that is untill they get raped like those 700+ women in Cologne Germany. I'm talking about people who actually want to build a new life out of war and destruction, not about rapist pigs. Would u actually be ok with it if you were in the same situation between life and death and people would deny you just because they don't know how to see the difference between you and murders?? As I said, I was only refering myself to the people who are actually afraid of death in their homes and have no other goal than to breath a little out of hopelessness. |
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miradesu said: Raimu4 said: Yes we are the ignorant ones, muslims are great people that respect women like you! Sure all the latest terrorist attacks have been carried out in the name of Islam by muslims but hey thats just a coincidence right? I mean we are such racist scumbags compared to the peaceful muslims that do not act hatefull towards homosexuals and jews at all. It seems like women are alright with all this muslim mass immigration as long as they can keep their Ugg boots and their frappuccinos, well that is untill they get raped like those 700+ women in Cologne Germany. I'm talking about people who actually want to build a new life out of war and destruction, not about rapist pigs. Would u actually be ok with it if you were in the same situation between life and death and people would deny you just because they don't know how to see the difference between you and murders?? As I said, I was only refering myself to the people who are actually afraid of death in their homes and have no other goal than to breath a little out of hopelessness. oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. |
Sakuraoka said: miradesu said: I'm talking about people who actually want to build a new life out of war and destruction, not about rapist pigs. Would u actually be ok with it if you were in the same situation between life and death and people would deny you just because they don't know how to see the difference between you and murders?? As I said, I was only refering myself to the people who are actually afraid of death in their homes and have no other goal than to breath a little out of hopelessness. oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. Learn how to interpretate a text, thanks |
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miradesu said: Sakuraoka said: oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. Learn how to interpretate a text, thanks oh i understand you alright, dont worry. |
It doesn't seem like you actually do |
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miradesu said: Sakuraoka said: oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. Learn how to interpretate a text, thanks Well you see I would love to give every person that wants to start a new life and get out those war torn areas a chance here in western Europe but it is a give and take. They need to adapt to our cultures and norms. Which the big majority does not. They stay very loyal to that book which basicially states woman are worth less then man and being homosexual is a sin and much more that conflicts with our culture. The amount of violence that small minority of Muslims makes towards the lgbt minorities and woman is unacceptable. Someone might respond to me 'ye but thats the same in christianity blablabla'. But ye that is why western and northern Europe dumped religion all together in the last decades. On top of that Christians usually keep it to talking while Muslims are a lot more violent. I do know I am generalizing a big group here but the numbers actually prove my point. I do have some Muslim friends and they are certainly ok people but if I would say to them today that I would be gay they would probably no longer be my friend. This is just an example ofcourse. |
JoopsterMay 3, 2016 10:16 AM
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Sakuraoka said: miradesu said: I'm talking about people who actually want to build a new life out of war and destruction, not about rapist pigs. Would u actually be ok with it if you were in the same situation between life and death and people would deny you just because they don't know how to see the difference between you and murders?? As I said, I was only refering myself to the people who are actually afraid of death in their homes and have no other goal than to breath a little out of hopelessness. oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. Lol learn how to respect others then talk please you so-called "civilized" person . What are you , 10 ? You think there are no muslims on mal so u can go calling them monkeys ? If you want to make your point , then make it without insulting others . |
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DragonSlayer_19 said: Sakuraoka said: oh sure, and after they escape their life and death situation they start reading their shitty little book and the crap just starts all over again, no thanks, fuck islam, these monkeys have no business in the civilized world. Lol learn how to respect others then talk please you so-called "civilized" person . What are you , 10 ? You think there are no muslims on mal so u can go calling them monkeys ? If you want to make your point , then make it without insulting others . because they show so much respect for other cultures right? |
Sakuraoka said: DragonSlayer_19 said: Lol learn how to respect others then talk please you so-called "civilized" person . What are you , 10 ? You think there are no muslims on mal so u can go calling them monkeys ? If you want to make your point , then make it without insulting others . because they show so much respect for other cultures right? Implying you have respect to any other cultures, It's hate on both ends. Don't deny. |
traed said: Usually when people talk of an objective morality they are really talking about a subjective God's morality so to expand upon that meaning of objective when talking about morals it fits fine. There's no such thing as a 'subjective God'. There's only subjective belief in a God. If that God exists, he's objective. So, nope, morality is not fine. It's stupid. Well I guess it depends on who uses the word. It gets confusing a bit on what people even mean when they say it. Using "Islamaphobia" as a word thrown around to try to shut down any criticism of Islam is wrong. I don't think people who hate all Muslims are really right either though. Maybe people should use the term religious bigotry when referring to hatred of all Muslims. Agreed. It must be a specific source though. Some script or a religious figurehead. I can guarantee as far as Quran and Hadith go. As for other scripture written by someone of a misinterpretation done by a religious figurehead, the same factors will apply to him. See my point above. I already pointed this out. It's a type of subjective opinion with inflated status. If Allah let people have free will he let them have just as much ability to choose their idea of right and wrong as he dose. Although of course he would pick the outcome more so he has more say but still it doesnt make it right just because he says so. Also youd have to assume he actually said so. When a person trust the Quran as the word of God they are not just trusting Allah, or even also trusting Muhammad's dictation skills, but they are trusting the scribes who wrote it the most. Then on top of that a person would have to trust a scholars interpretation although they are less reliant on that since they can come up with their own but they would have to trust their own and people ted to trust themselves too much overestimating their abilities. The scribes could have altered it any way they wanted or just made it up. So a person would have to place their faith in humans to believe that. Firstly, free will, strictly, doesn't exist in Islam. Islam is deterministic through and through. How that works, is another matter. Secondly, if we're talking of Islam then God himself said that he'll protect the true nature of the Quran. So if you believe in God, which you obviously should before you can be a Muslim and proceed to reading the Quran, you'll have to believe that Quran is the word of God preserved exactly as it was meant to (not as what it was like). Thirdly, assuming you can 'choose' your ideas of right or wrong in a world where Islamic God is the truth, then your choice wouldn't be correct unless your definition of right overlaps with God's definition of right. And same for wrong. It doesn't require mental gymnastics; just a flexibility of thought. Influence of religious writings, interpretations, and figureheads not control Religious writings, interpretations and figureheads don't hover over your head 24/7. So you are comparing punishing people with violence for mundane sins to being the same as mowing the lawn, Strawman. The analogy flew over your head. I won't comment on the drinking much since I dont think Ive heard of much an issue with that but for other things you have to address the source of the inspiration for people trying to punish others for mundane things. This would include a combination of mental health and theological progression. What you consider mundane, I consider sinful. And if you ask me 'why', I can throw the same question in return. And we'll be like those two people seeing the world in different colors again - going nowhere. Don't be an idiot. Stop bringing up morality. I believe Shirk is worse than killing. Because I accept God to be the truth; and truth has more value than a person's life. You have no truth, you believe so; for you a person may or may not have value. You and I are fundamentally different on that point. How can you expect clarification when there's no common ground in the first place? You're just using an appal to majority rule. If you gathered up a bunch of murderers and have them create their own country and there are some innocent people living there it doesnt make murder okay or something that should be defended. Again, you're bringing up morality lmao. Their murdering is something that is 'wrong' for you. Not them. For you, it might not make it okay. But for them it's been okay throughout. How do you convince them of your morality? Simple: Wage war, dominate them; coerce them into following your moral code and in a generation or two, they'll be just like you. I don't even know where youre trying to go with this now. Even masochists dont enjoy being raped for real or well at least not usually. I was just jokingly pointing out the possibility of irony before. It wasn't irony. The purpose of punishment is to keep people away from crime. A masochist getting flogged and enjoying will surely not cause other people to think that flogging is enjoyable. For others, it'll nonetheless be a painful scenario. |
| It won't go away if the reactionaries and alt right get their way. |
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| Why ask this question on anime forum? I'm serious, just why? Here's an advice, akhi: most anime fans are straight up foooooooked... it's the weirdest blend of alternative right-wingers, imageboard users, and straight up weeaboos. Nothing's particularly wrong with any of that, in and of itself... it's just not particularly a healthy outlet for serious discussion, or frankly, any kind of discussion at all (outside of animanga that is). This website is mainly for organizing anime lists, and sometimes discussing them. While they have different boards, that doesn't mean you'll find any real answers within. I'm sorry, I don't usually post much, but this topic is so odd, that it prompted me to do so. Discussing Islamophobia on MAL's casual board... now that's something... yeesh... |
traed said: Clebardman said: That's why some atheists often seek debate online. We are afraid of believers, because believing in god is irrational for us, and nobody feels safe around nutjobs. Actually it's more along the lines of if you want to kill a snake you cut off its head. If a person were to doubt their beleif in a god their beleif in their religion would all shatter. I dont really consider it the best method though. That won't really work with Christians though. Most of them have their doubts as those in the Bible did too. |
 "Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
Raimu4 said: IntellectualMr said: Implying you have respect to any other cultures, It's hate on both ends. Don't deny. Except we didn't move to their shit-hole countries. yeah like, now that they have it, they should just enjoy their muhammad hell. |
| LOL, Bigotry never stops to amazed me. |
#CHEXIT |
| As long as Islam extremists exist and inflict fear upon people, there will always be that illogical sense of Islamphobia |
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Masked_Mantis said: He said discrimination as well, since racism is a similar issue. As you're discussing with trance, "Muslimphobia", so that's what he implies by discrimination. The last part said it wouldnt end unless people stop maing a big deal out of race. I pointed out the flaw of that. fize4ever said: Discussing Islamophobia on MAL's casual board... now that's something... yeesh... These topics show up all the time. Casual discussion isnt really for casually discussions its for more generalized topics and have to have a certain level of depth or they become locked. So more serious subjects often show up. Trance- said: There's no such thing as a 'subjective God'. There's only subjective belief in a God. If that God exists, he's objective. So, nope, morality is not fine. It's stupid. But just because it is a god does not make its morals objective more than the collective morals of humanity. Firstly, free will, strictly, doesn't exist in Islam. Islam is deterministic through and through. How that works, is another matter. So in Islam people are just puppets of Allah? Or do you mean something else? Secondly, if we're talking of Islam then God himself said that he'll protect the true nature of the Quran. So if you believe in God, which you obviously should before you can be a Muslim and proceed to reading the Quran, you'll have to believe that Quran is the word of God preserved exactly as it was meant to (not as what it was like). You're using circular reasoning here. You did not hear that directly from God, you heard it thousands of years later from a scribe way in the past you never met. You have to trust the scribe to trust that is Allah's word. Thirdly, assuming you can 'choose' your ideas of right or wrong in a world where Islamic God is the truth, then your choice wouldn't be correct unless your definition of right overlaps with God's definition of right. And same for wrong. It doesn't require mental gymnastics; just a flexibility of thought. True objectivity only exists for physical objects not abstract concepts like morals. Unless Islam has a view that there are elemental forces of good and evil that drive people to do things because if its not a physical thing or physically unbreakable rule ( as in a person would be incapable of even sinning) it cant be objective in the true sense of the word. Yet as far as I know I do not really see that in Islam. Even your closest thing to evil, the Jinn are not all evil some are good. Religious writings, interpretations and figureheads don't hover over your head 24/7. That is just dancing around the point. A person is influenced by these things, it doesnt matter if they act on it 24/7 they will still act on it if its influence is big enough and religion has a big influence. So you are comparing punishing people with violence for mundane sins to being the same as mowing the lawn, Strawman. The analogy flew over your head. No, it didn't it was just an extremely bad analogy. I gave the correct correlation to what your analogy implies. If that is not what you meant then you have failed at making a useful analogy. What you consider mundane, I consider sinful. And if you ask me 'why', I can throw the same question in return. And we'll be like those two people seeing the world in different colors again - going nowhere. Don't be an idiot. Stop bringing up morality. But the "morals" of Islam and the actions of Muslims are exactly why people do not like them. So it's the only relevant thing. I believe Shirk is worse than killing. Because I accept God to be the truth; and truth has more value than a person's life. You have no truth, you believe so; for you a person may or may not have value. You and I are fundamentally different on that point. How can you expect clarification when there's no common ground in the first place? Considering shirk is considered the worst thing in Islam then Allah is a very jealous god. You accept the scribes words to be true just because he was all like "oh Muhmmad told me so and he said it was Allah who told him that so yeahhhh do that thing I said". Again, you're bringing up morality lmao. Their murdering is something that is 'wrong' for you. Not them. For you, it might not make it okay. But for them it's been okay throughout. How do you convince them of your morality? Simple: Wage war, dominate them; coerce them into following your moral code and in a generation or two, they'll be just like you. Again the only thing that matters is morality. No one really gives a shit that Muslims pray 5 times a day or something like that. You do not have to wage war you just talk things over to brig up all the points. War is only if that tends to fail and if its not a option to be fully isolaating such individuals away from the rest of society to save everyone else. It wasn't irony. The purpose of punishment is to keep people away from crime. A masochist getting flogged and enjoying will surely not cause other people to think that flogging is enjoyable. For others, it'll nonetheless be a painful scenario. So you're basically describing it as a type of theatre. It's sort of like how at the airport they have a type of security there but the TSA actually fails all safety checks they test them on so they only give the illusion of safety to people while people are going around blowing shit up, hijacking planes or whatever else. Corporal punishment wont ever end the things its trying to. It's tried for thousaands of years and failed. It's just wrong. |
traed said: fize4ever said: Discussing Islamophobia on MAL's casual board... now that's something... yeesh... These topics show up all the time. Casual discussion isnt really for casually discussions its for more generalized topics and have to have a certain level of depth or they become locked. So more serious subjects often show up. Well that couldn't be very fun, could it now? MAL should work on having more casual discussions here, it's not a good look when the casual area in your community has everyone fighting with each other... my 2 cents is all. I can't imagine posting here regularly... I feel like most members that do, have a ferocious religious debate, then move onto the next topic, and fancy themselves as armchair Generals who fantasize about World War 3 enactment within their heads, only to finish it with a good ol' racial discussion where some members, more often than not, probably come off as extremely racist. They probably managed to squeeze some scientific discussion somewhere in there, which has people talk on and on about a field that they likely don't have an associate's degree WRT the subject, at the very least... I really can't see how any conversation here can produce any tangible results on anything. I'd much rather add something to my list, and be done with it. |
| Islam is peace. That's the reality. And actually Christianity, Islam, and Jewish are come from same teaching. But I found some teaching is too ridiculous, especially they banned eating pigs meat Hey don't discriminate them, they're cute animal :) Islamic teaching also seems slightly discriminate between man and woman Here's the case: A woman in Aceh, Indonesia (Aceh is the only one province which uses Islamic Law) who get sentenced to be whipped because she's get raped by random lewd man. Oh please, she's the victim. Well, that's the religion. And religion isn't always comes from God but also influenced by certain tradition. |
ccccrseMay 3, 2016 11:01 PM
RobinVPersie said: The amount of hate Islam recieves is unbelievable. Unbelievable amount yes, but also understandable. Name another religion presently that has conducted widespread international terrorism all in the name of their religon. |
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FukuchiChiisaia said: Well, that's the region. And region isn't always comes from God but also influenced by certain tradition. Islam, for the pass hundred years gradually changed after assimilating the cultures and traditions of it's conquered subjects. These rooted deep into the practices of the people that it became almost indistinguishable from Islamic traditions during the time of Muhammad and those that spouted after his death ( many were pre Islamic traditions). |
#CHEXIT |
| I think there's an issue of referring Islam as a whole entity. idiots like Bill Maher espouse "Islam" as if it's a whole cohesive entity. It's not. Criticizing radical Islamists or the QURAN as a basis for criticizing Muslims in general is like criticizing Christian Fundamentalists as a critique of Christian in general (not a one-to-one comparision, but it works). It's inaccurate and generalizing and just shows how little understanding the criticizer has of the religion (I don't). The problem with pointing out extremist laws, such as those of Saudi Arabia and isalmic Revolution Iran is just not right. Those countries and practices are Outliers. Countries that almost never get mentioned in critiques of Islam such as Indonesia and Turkey don't have those kinds of laws or practices, but they account for HUGE amounts of the Muslim population. Islam is not confined in the Middle East (Whatever that means), and the cultural practices of each country and region are same. I think a lot of hate on Islam is just non-sequitur. They create an imaginary entity by pointint out a few parts of what they think is "Islam" and the apply to it generally to over a billion people in the world. Let that sink in for a second. a BILLION. That's more people than N. America + Europe combined. Are they all going to be the same? The attack on Islam is non-sense because there is no such thing that's concrete and identifiable. It's just the practice and belief of the people in specific parts of the world. That said, I don't think the core belief of theology has any basis in reality. But it's important to distinguish that god isn't the only part of a religion. |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
GodlyKyon said: I think there's an issue of referring Islam as a whole entity. idiots like Bill Maher espouse "Islam" as if it's a whole cohesive entity. It's not. Criticizing radical Islamists or the QURAN as a basis for criticizing Muslims in general is like criticizing Christian Fundamentalists as a critique of Christian in general (not a one-to-one comparision, but it works). It's inaccurate and generalizing and just shows how little understanding the criticizer has of the religion (I don't). The problem with pointing out extremist laws, such as those of Saudi Arabia and isalmic Revolution Iran is just not right. Those countries and practices are Outliers. Countries that almost never get mentioned in critiques of Islam such as Indonesia and Turkey don't have those kinds of laws or practices, but they account for HUGE amounts of the Muslim population. Islam is not confined in the Middle East (Whatever that means), and the cultural practices of each country and region are same. I think a lot of hate on Islam is just non-sequitur. They create an imaginary entity by pointint out a few parts of what they think is "Islam" and the apply to it generally to over a billion people in the world. Let that sink in for a second. a BILLION. That's more people than N. America + Europe combined. Are they all going to be the same? The attack on Islam is non-sense because there is no such thing that's concrete and identifiable. It's just the practice and belief of the people in specific parts of the world. That said, I don't think the core belief of theology has any basis in reality. But it's important to distinguish that god isn't the only part of a religion. We dont have the problems of saudi arabia because we dont follow those rules? Why dont you ever give a self-criticism with a clear mind? |
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| Phobia means irrational fear of something considering the issues the following of Islam has in conflict with certain other western ideology and lifestyle I'd hardly call a dislike or fear of it irrational. If a homosexual fears or dislikes the idea of Islam because lets be honest why wouldn't they its hardly an irrational fear to know that half the world wants to throw you from a roof top. Funny when someone calls a homosexual an ignorant bigot and Islamaphobe for not accepting or liking it. Pretty sure the people totally intolerant of his way of being get the intolerance gold star first. |
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| @traed You win by the sole virtue of being stupid enough to not realize that you still haven't found your way about the terms of 'objective' and 'subjective'. You can call me out on this: "That's not an argument''. Alright, it isn't. It's just a confession of annoyance here. |
Evelinaismyname said: I hope so. Right now with ISIS the refugee crisis it's worse than ever. I have never seen so much hate on the internet towards muslims. I think (or hope) that people aren't as narrow minded as they seem to be at the moment. And that they act this way because they are scared and don't know how to cope. There's evil people in ever religious group (and every non-religious group too) and you can't define people by religious belief alone. I myself believe that religion is a source used for oppression and control, and I don't believe in God. But i have enough respect for other human beings not to judge them based on belief. Your actions define you, nothing else. Chances are that if you were born in a muslim country you would have that belief. So stop the fucking hate! Why is the hatred of Muslims towards others, the kind that leads to all these terror attacks not as frightening? |
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Trance- said: You win by the sole virtue of being stupid enough to not realize that you still haven't found your way about the terms of 'objective' and 'subjective'. Insulting me isn't an argument. You are also trying to distract from the fact you did not reply to anything else I wrote so you likely had no good reasoning to back up what you have been saying up to this point in reply. Getting mad because someone pointed out flaws in Islam or how Muslims follow it won't make the questions and points go way. |
FukuchiChiisaia said: Islam is peace. That's the reality. And actually Christianity, Islam, and Jewish are come from same teaching. Ah...good all Surat Muhammad and its peaceful teachings. الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَصَدُّوا عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَضَلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَآمَنُوا بِمَا نُزِّلَ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَهُوَ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۙ كَفَّرَ عَنْهُمْ سَيِّئَاتِهِمْ وَأَصْلَحَ بَالَهُمْ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْبَاطِلَ وَأَنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْحَقَّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ لِلنَّاسِ أَمْثَالَهُمْ فَإِذَا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا أَثْخَنتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ فَإِمَّا مَنًّا بَعْدُ وَإِمَّا فِدَاءً حَتَّىٰ تَضَعَ الْحَرْبُ أَوْزَارَهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ وَلَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَانتَصَرَ مِنْهُمْ وَلَٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَ بَعْضَكُم بِبَعْضٍ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَلَن يُضِلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ سَيَهْدِيهِمْ وَيُصْلِحُ بَالَهُمْ وَيُدْخِلُهُمُ الْجَنَّةَ عَرَّفَهَا لَهُمْ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِن تَنصُرُوا اللَّهَ يَنصُرْكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتْ أَقْدَامَكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَتَعْسًا لَّهُمْ وَأَضَلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ كَرِهُوا مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأَحْبَطَ أَعْمَالَهُمْ Those who disbelieve and avert [people] from the way of Allah - He will waste their deeds. And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah present to the people their comparisons. So when you meet those who disbelieve in battle (jihad), strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either (confer) favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That (is the command). And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them (Himself), but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds. He will guide them and amend their condition And admit them to Paradise, which He has made known to them. O you who have believed, if you support Allah , He will support you and plant firmly your feet. But those who disbelieve - for them is misery, and He will waste their deeds. That is because they disliked what Allah revealed, so He rendered worthless their deeds. Oh, and except Islam relies heavily on the fact that Jews and Christians got the faith wrong entirely. So the only thing they really "share" is that they all believe in connections to Abraham. |
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
| I'm sure this thread gonna be deleted soon because i can see a lot of people here is racist about other religions. As a Muslim, I don't really know how to say this but If you have a free time please google search or search at youtube "Dr Zakir Naik" . He is really Famous around the world. So, IF any of you think that Islam is terrorist you should watch this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63YqdehBgUo |
 "The harder you try to see the good in people the easier it is to fake you out." -Izaya Orihara |
AlexanderErwin said: I'm sure this thread gonna be deleted soon because i can see a lot of people here is racist about other religions. As a Muslim, I don't really know how to say this but If you have a free time please google search or search at youtube "Dr Zakir Naik" . He is really Famous around the world. So, IF any of you think that Islam is terrorist you should watch this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63YqdehBgUo 'Racist about other religions'.. I'm such a bad guy, being all racist about other religions, sometimes I need a break from that and be sexist against animals for a while. |
AlexanderErwin said: I'm sure this thread gonna be deleted soon because i can see a lot of people here is racist about other religions. As a Muslim, I don't really know how to say this but If you have a free time please google search or search at youtube "Dr Zakir Naik" . He is really Famous around the world. So, IF any of you think that Islam is terrorist you should watch this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63YqdehBgUo You do realize that Muslims aren't a race, right? |
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
Orevataf said: 'Racist about other religions'.. I'm such a bad guy, being all racist about other religions, sometimes I need a break from that and be sexist against animals for a while. I'm from Brunei.So... english is not my main language but at least i try xD. Actually, what am i saying is there's a lot of people hate Islam(include Donald Trump). So, if you are that kind of people you should watch that video. Rip grammar lol |
"The harder you try to see the good in people the easier it is to fake you out." -Izaya Orihara |
cenkiss said: GodlyKyon said: I think there's an issue of referring Islam as a whole entity. idiots like Bill Maher espouse "Islam" as if it's a whole cohesive entity. It's not. Criticizing radical Islamists or the QURAN as a basis for criticizing Muslims in general is like criticizing Christian Fundamentalists as a critique of Christian in general (not a one-to-one comparision, but it works). It's inaccurate and generalizing and just shows how little understanding the criticizer has of the religion (I don't). The problem with pointing out extremist laws, such as those of Saudi Arabia and isalmic Revolution Iran is just not right. Those countries and practices are Outliers. Countries that almost never get mentioned in critiques of Islam such as Indonesia and Turkey don't have those kinds of laws or practices, but they account for HUGE amounts of the Muslim population. Islam is not confined in the Middle East (Whatever that means), and the cultural practices of each country and region are same. I think a lot of hate on Islam is just non-sequitur. They create an imaginary entity by pointint out a few parts of what they think is "Islam" and the apply to it generally to over a billion people in the world. Let that sink in for a second. a BILLION. That's more people than N. America + Europe combined. Are they all going to be the same? The attack on Islam is non-sense because there is no such thing that's concrete and identifiable. It's just the practice and belief of the people in specific parts of the world. That said, I don't think the core belief of theology has any basis in reality. But it's important to distinguish that god isn't the only part of a religion. We dont have the problems of saudi arabia because we dont follow those rules? Why dont you ever give a self-criticism with a clear mind? Explain more. I'm not following you. Who are you talking about that's "we"? and who are you referring to as "you"? (You are definitely grouping me with another group, but it's not clear what group you're talking about) |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
AlexanderErwin said: Orevataf said: 'Racist about other religions'.. I'm such a bad guy, being all racist about other religions, sometimes I need a break from that and be sexist against animals for a while. I'm from Brunei.So... english is not my main language but at least i try xD. Actually, what am i saying is there's a lot of people hate Islam(include Donald Trump). So, if you are that kind of people you should watch that video. Rip grammar lol Of course there are a lot of people who hate Islam. There are a lot of people who hate Christianity or Judaism as well, but most of them don't hate all of the people in it or include them all into the problem they are discussing, so calling people a "bigot" or a "racist" for it doesn't make it true, it just means you want to shut people up because they are hurting your feelings. Regardless I know what the video is going to say (isn't the first time I came across someone who posted it). Many Muslims and even non-Muslims say it all the time, including in this thread. Nothing anyone can ever say can justify any of the garbage within the Qu'ran. Just look back at a Muslim in this thread justifying what was done to the Jews (and continues to be taught to this day) by saying it "was then" and "deserved". Any other will also claim "context made it okay that once" without any evidence to his claims other than how he feels about the suras or specific verses. Because the only thing you or any Muslim can ever say is what others say about how they feel or how they interpret it, not actually what the Qu'ran says. That isn't evidence in proving the religion isn't hateful or violent, it is providing a mouthpiece for your views, not the truth. Lastly no one here is saying all Muslims are terrorists or that all Muslims practice the Qu'ran as purely as the terrorists do, and no one, as I have read, has ever even suggested it. What they have been saying is that "Islamphobia" will never go away because of what the Qu'ran teaches and that people will logically fear a religion that does nothing but incite murder and hatred for anyone who doesn't believe in their God or that Muhammad was a "prophet" which has a pretty huge population of people behind it who DO think as violently or purely as the Qu'ran teaches. You can try to twist the verses all you want, but any logical person can read the Arabic or English translations of a hundred different scholars' translations and see just how violent the religion really is. And just so we are clear here, I'm not strictly speaking about you with my "yous" and "yours". |
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
| It will exist for eternity. People will always hate something. |
GodlyKyon said: cenkiss said: We dont have the problems of saudi arabia because we dont follow those rules? Why dont you ever give a self-criticism with a clear mind? Explain more. I'm not following you. Who are you talking about that's "we"? and who are you referring to as "you"? (You are definitely grouping me with another group, but it's not clear what group you're talking about) I am turkish and you said look at Turkey and how it is not like saudi arabia. It is because we follow secular rules. As you, i mean muslims and islamists. They never ever give self criticism. They think they are always victim. When they are weak, they have a pitiful voice looking for support against those 'racists'. When they gain a little ground they push everything. I mean all those islamists went to europe went they lost power, european liberals opened their hands to people who would want them dead. Like khomeini and bin laden. |
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Jelmazmo said: AlexanderErwin said: I'm from Brunei.So... english is not my main language but at least i try xD. Actually, what am i saying is there's a lot of people hate Islam(include Donald Trump). So, if you are that kind of people you should watch that video. Rip grammar lol Of course there are a lot of people who hate Islam. There are a lot of people who hate Christianity or Judaism as well, but most of them don't hate all of the people in it or include them all into the problem they are discussing, so calling people a "bigot" or a "racist" for it doesn't make it true, it just means you want to shut people up because they are hurting your feelings. Regardless I know what the video is going to say (isn't the first time I came across someone who posted it). Many Muslims and even non-Muslims say it all the time, including in this thread. Nothing anyone can ever say can justify any of the garbage within the Qu'ran. Just look back at a Muslim in this thread justifying what was done to the Jews (and continues to be taught to this day) by saying it "was then" and "deserved". Any other will also claim "context made it okay that once" without any evidence to his claims other than how he feels about the suras or specific verses. Because the only thing you or any Muslim can ever say is what others say about how they feel or how they interpret it, not actually what the Qu'ran says. That isn't evidence in proving the religion isn't hateful or violent, it is providing a mouthpiece for your views, not the truth. Lastly no one here is saying all Muslims are terrorists or that all Muslims practice the Qu'ran as purely as the terrorists do, and no one, as I have read, has ever even suggested it. What they have been saying is that "Islamphobia" will never go away because of what the Qu'ran teaches and that people will logically fear a religion that does nothing but incite murder and hatred for anyone who doesn't believe in their God or that Muhammad was a "prophet" which has a pretty huge population of people behind it who DO think as violently or purely as the Qu'ran teaches. You can try to twist the verses all you want, but any logical person can read the Arabic or English translations of a hundred different scholars' translations and see just how violent the religion really is. And just so we are clear here, I'm not strictly speaking about you with my "yous" and "yours". How come the fact the majority of terrorists are Muslims doesn't light any lightbulbs? I love how it's the 'Islamophobics' who are the menace, who oppress people. How many people Islamophobics have killed compared to Islamic terrorists? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: How come the fact the majority of terrorists are Muslims doesn't light any lightbulbs? I love how it's the 'Islamophobics' who are the menace, who oppress people. How many people Islamophobics have killed compared to Islamic terrorists? Is this toward me, or AlexanderErwin? Because if it is towards me I would ask: what kind of answer do you want to take from "the majority of terrorists are Muslims"? That Islam is bad? Then I would agree, as I have been doing, but if it is that "all Muslims are terrorists"? Well then...that gets us nowhere in revealing the problems Islam presents and will just end up getting this thread closed. |
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
cenkiss said: GodlyKyon said: Explain more. I'm not following you. Who are you talking about that's "we"? and who are you referring to as "you"? (You are definitely grouping me with another group, but it's not clear what group you're talking about) I am turkish and you said look at Turkey and how it is not like saudi arabia. It is because we follow secular rules. As you, i mean muslims and islamists. They never ever give self criticism. They think they are always victim. When they are weak, they have a pitiful voice looking for support against those 'racists'. When they gain a little ground they push everything. I mean all those islamists went to europe went they lost power, european liberals opened their hands to people who would want them dead. Like khomeini and bin laden. I'm sorry... WHAT? I'm not a Muslim or an Islamist. I don't know why you would presume that I was. I don't think the ideas in Islamic states are good ideas to implement. I would abhor living in such a place. But that's not always the case in every Muslim country. I'm pointing out that when you group Muslims all together, it's hard to actually see the difference and you end up grouping extremist and secularists or even moderate places together. It's not always so clearly cut, but grouping definitely allows people to think in racist ways. |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
| While it is unfair to generalize all Muslims as terrorists, as there are many peaceful Muslims, it is also wrong to ignore the fact that Daesh and other groups are Muslim groups. They sprung from Islam, and we will get nowheres closer to defeating them by ignoring that, no matter what good may have also sprung from Islam. Vote Bull Mose 2016. (Vote Bernie though. He's the least insane/corrupt candidate.) |
BULLY! |
| it will exist as long as jihadist terrorism will exist Religious extremism main cause of terrorism, according to report Since 2001 religious extremism has overtaken national separatism to become the main driver of terrorist attacks around the world, according to the Global Terrorism Index http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/nov/18/religious-extremism-main-cause-of-terrorism-according-to-report |
GodlyKyon said: cenkiss said: I am turkish and you said look at Turkey and how it is not like saudi arabia. It is because we follow secular rules. As you, i mean muslims and islamists. They never ever give self criticism. They think they are always victim. When they are weak, they have a pitiful voice looking for support against those 'racists'. When they gain a little ground they push everything. I mean all those islamists went to europe went they lost power, european liberals opened their hands to people who would want them dead. Like khomeini and bin laden. I'm sorry... WHAT? I'm not a Muslim or an Islamist. I don't know why you would presume that I was. I don't think the ideas in Islamic states are good ideas to implement. I would abhor living in such a place. But that's not always the case in every Muslim country. I'm pointing out that when you group Muslims all together, it's hard to actually see the difference and you end up grouping extremist and secularists or even moderate places together. It's not always so clearly cut, but grouping definitely allows people to think in racist ways. But if you never discuss anything in fear of being called racist you will not change anything. You are talking from a place of comfort. That is the thing about ideas and religions. If you dont push, they will push you and it wont be long before you start talking about jesus' foreskin. |
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cenkiss said: GodlyKyon said: I'm sorry... WHAT? I'm not a Muslim or an Islamist. I don't know why you would presume that I was. I don't think the ideas in Islamic states are good ideas to implement. I would abhor living in such a place. But that's not always the case in every Muslim country. I'm pointing out that when you group Muslims all together, it's hard to actually see the difference and you end up grouping extremist and secularists or even moderate places together. It's not always so clearly cut, but grouping definitely allows people to think in racist ways. But if you never discuss anything in fear of being called racist you will not change anything. You are talking from a place of comfort. That is the thing about ideas and religions. If you dont push, they will push you and it wont be long before you start talking about jesus' foreskin. You're making a bunch of assumptions that aren't true on my part. Anyone who criticizes a whole religion needs to ask who exactly they are attacking, and what ideology? Is it the Quran, which then would mean you are attacking the religion that's written in the books LITERALLY, which is exactly what fundamentalist Islamists do? Or The people living in different countries that are majority Muslim? In which what the hell are you talking about? How would you know what those people believe are actually what you think they believe? I don't think attacking a religion for behavior that are common in certain regions in the world is helpful at all. |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
Jelmazmo said: TheBrainintheJar said: How come the fact the majority of terrorists are Muslims doesn't light any lightbulbs? I love how it's the 'Islamophobics' who are the menace, who oppress people. How many people Islamophobics have killed compared to Islamic terrorists? Is this toward me, or AlexanderErwin? Because if it is towards me I would ask: what kind of answer do you want to take from "the majority of terrorists are Muslims"? That Islam is bad? Then I would agree, as I have been doing, but if it is that "all Muslims are terrorists"? Well then...that gets us nowhere in revealing the problems Islam presents and will just end up getting this thread closed. It's merely me adding a few more things. I agree with you generally. No, I do not think 'all muslims are terrorists' and against any action against them as a collective. No individual should be judged for their religion. Thinking, even about how evil Jews are isn't a crime. But the fact so many terrorists are Muslims should bother us more if we want less hate in the world. The most hateful person is the one who acts out on it. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Jelmazmo said: Is this toward me, or AlexanderErwin? Because if it is towards me I would ask: what kind of answer do you want to take from "the majority of terrorists are Muslims"? That Islam is bad? Then I would agree, as I have been doing, but if it is that "all Muslims are terrorists"? Well then...that gets us nowhere in revealing the problems Islam presents and will just end up getting this thread closed. It's merely me adding a few more things. I agree with you generally. No, I do not think 'all muslims are terrorists' and against any action against them as a collective. No individual should be judged for their religion. Thinking, even about how evil Jews are isn't a crime. But the fact so many terrorists are Muslims should bother us more if we want less hate in the world. The most hateful person is the one who acts out on it. Ah, okay, I was just a bit confused about the post. |
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." |
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