Koutetsujou no Kabaneri Episode 3 Discussion

KoreaWS said:


Why are you so sure that it has nothing to do with it, if the anime shows otherwise? I presented the proof, where's yours?

Why you still insist is a virus, if until now we only know its "not a curse", according to Ikoma, and a curse according to everyone else? Nice jump to conclusions.

I can't explain it. I only take the conclusions I can draw from what the show has presented until now, which in relation to this topic has been the most concise thing it has.

I dismissed the obvious bait, naturally. Funny you can be a cynic too :D

zal said:
I assume it is a virus because that is what the anime presented, if something else will be presented then you can say it is not a virus.

The sister had a bigger injury than ikoma and closer to the head but she took longer to transform. For now the time necessary to transform doesn't seem coherent.

KoreaWS said:


The thing is, what kind of virus gives you a hard coated heart on the real life? That's the main reason I don't consider it a "virus" in our terms. Everyone, except Ikoma, says it's a curse, even Mumei. Ikoma says it is not a curse because it has some kind of logic behind it, that is to aim at the brain (and because plot it worked, but plot convenience is not something I discuss because is obvious). Up until this point, I haven't seen a contradiction in it based on contextual evidence, and the moment I see one be sure I'll point it out (but meh, beign the only one believing it who's really gonna care).

There is a problem (another one) in the anime, a direction issue, how the situation is presented and from what perspective we are presented to it, something that other guy has convinced me is also a major flaw of the show. It fails at portray things in a way that doesn't feel stupid. For example, instead of portraying the people's hate in this show, it could had presented the inner thoughts of Ikoma, since he has to deal with beign now something that isn't human.

It also fails to tell how much time really passes, like with the sister flashback and the time it transforms. We know nothing about distances or time in it, but because it is a big bite, and considering the little sister is laying down, my bet is that she passed out and eventually "woke up", due to external stimuli (his brother putting the suicide bag over her chest). Since it's the only case we've been shown of a big chomp Kabane actually transforming, I'm waiting for more chapters to see how they can keep at least this with some logic.

Anyway, next episode apparently is infection inside the train. Chances are they will show more zombie transformation.

@kamisama751
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number
Using wikipedia to try to explain a fantasy setting. Nice try. Where can wikipedia explain the hard shell heart?

kamisama751 said:

Ikoma said it is science so I gave you a scientific answer. The heart protector can't be explained since a human body can't produce that much iron (or is it made out of another material? Need to check it.). Therefore it counts as a mistake (need to check it first). *smoothly pets my chin*

kamisama751 said:

Ikoma said it is science

zal said:

For now it is a virus in the future could be something else, until that something else is presented most people are assuming it is a virus and base their reasoning on that.
That's a common issue with edgy anime, quite serious themes but shallow presentation because doing it seriously would be "boring".
It is simply plot convenience to have certain things at certain times but I don't have problems with that until it is coherent which knk is not that much.
I don't like previews they ruin the episode for me.
Someone in the previous episode discussions hypothesised it is the iron in the blood but that is unrealistic.

ColdBreeze said:
Of course Ayame could try it herself but if she can handle an half-kabane with "super-strength" alone I call bullshit too.

KoreaWS said:

No he hasn't. Why do you put ficional words on fictional characters? I still haven't seen that you get that burden of proof out of your shoulders. For a "person who arguments his opinions", you take them quite lightly and unseriously.




Yeah, they screwed up the overall presentation too. A lot of people are writing essays about how it can and it can't be a virus and how much sense it does and all that, based precisely on the assumption it is a virus, and I'm on the middle ground because since they showed the special zombie breed of the show, I had to adapt to the show's logic. So far it's not a curse, and that's all.

ColdBreeze said:
You could save all people if you strangle them.

kamisama751 said:



The show should simply show us that it is not science. Otherwise I will continue using it. ;)

zal said:
Speculating is a nice thing to do sometimes. The biggest screw up was making Ikoma say "it is science" without the basis for saying so, that's the cause of the scientific backlash.

KoreaWS said:

It already did, starting with the zombie breed. Care to take the arguments seriously now?



The thing is, not really. He didn't say it neither it is implied. He has applied the scientific method (observation>questions>hypothesis>experimentation>conclusions) to get some ideas of how things works. Since he can't really experiment, he gathers evidence from the trains that come to the station to further develop theories. That's why he can say with certainty that blocking the pass to the brain could stop the thing: is an informated speculation.

Trolls are just abusing the fact that people mix that method with science and inmediately jump to the idea that the logic of our world should explain the logic of the show's work instead of trying to see how the show's world works. The scientific method is a way to try to explain our surroundings, and Ikoma applied all he could apply of it to try to understand the Kabanes, something of his world.

If you simply see it as a way of trying to understand your particular world, then there's no real reason to believe it should be explained by our world's logic.

tinybunnvevo said:
Ikoma's constant speeches on how he wants to kill the Kabane feel kind of cliche, but it's tolerable. Nice to see Ayame step up as a leader (ofc only to get her life threatened 5 fucking seconds later lmfao. this is going to go over great next episode. if ayame isn't on their side then who will defend them?)

Maybe it's just me, but sometimes it gets kind of annoying how in shows, people put in the trainer/leader position forget to mention important stuff, or just never explain themselves. I get that Mumei is very confident in herself, enough that she doesn't fear the people on the train, but she could have at least told Ikoma a little bit more about how his life was like while they were sparring. The fact that they need to subsist off of blood seems like an extremely important detail that's kind of hard to forget. I understand it was used as a plot device so things could get more complex but come on now, lmfao. This makes the samurai's defensiveness a little bit more understandable now. Annoying, but understandable.

I doubt Ayame will become a kabaneri. I just think this incident will cause more chaos.

3/5

kamisama751 said:
By the way, the virus will just die if they don’t reach your brain in time, which they also contradicted here.

MysteriousBanana said:
I'm rather curious why you keep clinging to this point when episode 2 showed Ikoma didn't really cure himself and episode 3 goes further to show he didn't stop the virus from infecting his brain.

All we really saw was that the strangling stopped the spread of purple skin, which we all assumed was a sign of the virus' progress, but it was just a symptom if you think about it. Ikoma's strangling affected a symptom, one which could be associated with blood flow, but it doesn't mean he did anything to the virus itself.

It's just really weird that you're complaining that his theory makes no sense, yet assume it's really what happened despite following events proving he was wrong and it's not actually what happened.

phreeak said:
idk if the question was already asked, but the girl said they are physically Kabane. So why they get attacked from other ones? Other Kabanes should see them as their kind...?!
Not the best anime this season.. lot of plotholes.. annoying ppl everywhere...

and idk why ppl still arguing with kamisama, its obviously a little lonely troll fu.... who needs some attention. He trolls nearly in every airing anime episode thread, like Re:Zero with his rant of the MCs "OPness" and his "random checkpoint" bullshit... Not even worth pay attention.


But hes right with the plotholes :P

Gaelenmyr said:
I love SnK and I've liked Kabaneri so far, but people's constant need to compare two shows every fucking second makes me dislike both shows.

zal said:
Then why the symptom didn't get back when he stopped strangling himself?

Mapplesauce said:
The show is getting a bit shonen-esque, what with all the flashbacks and one dimensional motives.



Sure it may seem like it's bad to compare two shows, but it's undeniable that the events of both shows basically perfectly parallel each other. I think it's fair to compare the two.

I was hoping that they wouldn't go full braindead battle shonen route, and instead work to fix the flaws that was found in SnK. After this episode though, I'm not so sure.

I'm not looking forward to this. It seems like the show will be a SnK copy paste with all of its flaws included. Damn shame, it had a pretty cool premise.

zal said:
Then why the symptom didn't get back when he stopped strangling himself?

u531355 said:
I'm guessing that's how Mumei became a kabaneri, by having her pregnant mother become a kabane.

-Sci said:
That twist I wonder If Mumei would really kill the girls for blood if there is no kabaneri appeared.

Kurusu is annoying as always!

Bowgli said:
I love how plebs hate Kurusu, the best and most badass character in the show.
Kurusu owned Mumei's ass by parrying the bullet she throwed at him. He also owned Ikoma's edgy speech by saying I feel no shame being saved by you, followed by ordering Ikoma to kill himself.

kamisama751 said:

In episode two Ikoma himself said that it is a virus. Yeah, I checked it out.


And Ikoma said there is science behind it. So it is scientific. :D

You have lost every argument against me now and you don't let it go by discussing that implying "science" is wrong.

MysteriousBanana said:
Kabane don't have purple skin either, just gray/pallid skin, so it's likely a symptom that only shows up on initial infection.

My theory is that it's related to their regenerative abilities: the skin's going purple because blood vesslers are rupturing from excess blood flow (although a bruise should start yellow instead of purple, but that wouldn't show up very well), so by reducing the blood flow to his head he managed to stop that from happening in his brain (thus preventing himself from going feral), and it went away when his regeneration finally kicked in to fix the damage and prevent further ruptures.

kamisama751 said:

Don't know if you are for or against me(or in the middle)? But doesn't that mean each theory (science and zombie) are valid until the show reveals the truth?

zellami said:
If you replace Migi with a pathogen virus, it would be the same routine of fictional co-existence.

MysteriousBanana said:
Wouldn't stop us from eliminating theories as more of the plot is revealed while the story progresses. So far we know for a fact that Ikoma's wrong about how the infection works, because if he was right he would be cured instead of trying to give Ayame a facelift with his teeth.

Given it's a steampunk setting and absolutely no other mystic/occult elements have been hinted at (unless that silhouette of the long-haired swordsman in the OP is the hint), it would be weird for it to really be a curse.

I dunno, Migi's a sentient parasite, so it's not strange that he would choose not to fully infect the host. A virus can't choose.

zellami said:


The point is that the agent (of contamination) doesn't necessary choose.

paraze said:
Also, @On_the_Lam: "A character's action or ability obviously happens for the sake of plot and the fact that people keep using that as an excuse to shit on an anime is laughable". Well, not always, watch more anime I guess. But, even if a character's action is for the sake of the plot, it doesn't excuse it if this action feels forced and seems to come out of nowhere (and in some cases, doesn't even make sense). Making something for the sake of the plot isn't a problem on its own, but it becomes a problem for instance when it comes from a completely one-dimensional character.