MysticLeviathan said: Do mangaka have any say in which studio produces their anime? Why would anyone in their right mind allow Toei or Pierrot to adapt their series into an anime? It's become a freaking death sentence for any Toei series in recent memory and a more likely than not chance of being garbage if it's done by Pierrot. That is totally not true! Toei's World Trigger is doing incredible well, better than what was expected of it. Toriko also did incredible well. One Piece got its immense boost in December 2009, making the same money as entire Studio Pierrot sales, just from Domestic Licensing. And that was done because of the amazing handling of Toei animation and the franchise keeps doing incredible well still now, and this year with the Movie is possible that the franchise will increase. Precure, that is an original Toei Animation series, keeps selling more than some top anime studios. Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya, Sailor Moon and Digimon got incredible revivals also because of Toei Animation. You then have Tanken Driland, Majin Bone, Marvel Disk Wars Avengers, Robot Girls Z that did quite well for what they were conceived to be. Why would an author allow Toei to handle their series adaptations? Because Toei Animation is the best and most known studio for kids and young teens, the demographic of Weekly Shounen Jump! And because they are the best studio at planning and handling a franchise. Studio Pierrot series being bad is totally up for opinion. In terms of the general public they do quite well. Tokyo Ghoul did amazingly well, being one of the best recent boosts a manga got. Akatsuki no Yona was pretty good and also got a good manga boost. Osomatsu is the big thing of the moment, being an astronomical revival of a franchise, getting 90k copies sold for the first volume, and that volume will certainly sell more copies. Why would an author allow Studio Pierrot handle their series adaptations? Because the are one of the best and most known studios in the industry and they make series that are liked by a big group of people, highly increasing the popularity of the existing series. They also have a good handling of franchises. |
bigivelfhqFeb 12, 2016 8:37 AM
WhiteFlamee said: Wouldnt that mean all mangakas aim for Toei to animate there series? why didnt Togashi let Toei animate HxH then? It would have been better in there hands or was toei scared of togashis laziness? I saw that fist of the north star had some OVA/Movie animated by a different studio. Will Toei ever let other studiios animate OVAs for smaller series of theres like World Trigger, Devilman, Kinnikuman and hell even Toriko? That's not how it works. Authors don't get to choose studios. Studios and production commite give anime adaption proposal to the editorial department of Jump and Shusiea to approve. In reality authors have little to no control over the anime of their manga with varying to degrees. It all depends on the studio if they are willing to listen to the author suggestion or not, but even then that won't be about big decisions. They can only influence stuff like VA cast and such. https://i.imgur.com/P5NJ9VP.png Those OVAs are probably before the anime started. For example Toriko's first OVA is done by Ufotable. HxH first OVA is done by Pierrot. |
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lukeycow said: bigivelfhq said: Series in Jump only start after getting a lot of chapters: Around 80 to 150 chapters! Again, HxH was a remake of a series that already had an anime series, and a long runner that started rather early. Ace of Diamond started 7 years after the manga started, do you know how many series end before the 7 years, specially in Jump? Almost all series! I don't see your example of World Trigger and Dragon Ball Super. Dragon Ball Super is a anime original, so it makes no sense including it. World Trigger isn't a mess in any way of the word! Slam Dunk worked as a long runner and even became the most popular sport manga because of it! If you're wondering, yep, Slam Dunk was made by Toei Animation. About Toei Animation doing Hinomaru Zumou, it will be a surprise if they do. They stopped doing sport anime in sometime with the exception of Masutarou that was more of a comedy. A lot of recent jump series have had very early anime announcements though. For example, Boku no Heros announcement was around the 60th chapter, I think Soma was like 70, same with World Trigger and Haikyuu. Id be willing to bet that Black Clover will likely get one in the next 6 months to a year. Hinomaru is over 100 now, you'd think shueisha would want increase its sales as much as possible and try get an anime. Especially considering how it's sales are some of the lowest in jump, yet it's ranking are in the top third, but I guess they haven't had any offers. And I mean I'd prefer it if a series was split into 3 25 Ep seasons like Kuroko was, than try to keep it going and flood it with filler, crappy animation ect. I do agree that World Trigger is one of Toei's better series (not hard), but you can't tell me it wouldn't have been done better if it wasn't all animated at once. And they definitely shouldn't have kept it going beyond the initial 48 canon eps because of the mangakas illness. They just did a pretty long filler and still have less than 30 chapters to adapt because he takes quite a few breaks. they're gonna have a hard time keeping it going for much longer unless they just do like 50 eps of filler which is pretty pointless... But DBS has some of the worst animation out, and it's probably because they are trying to pace themselves so they can put effort in when it matters, but they shouldn't have gone in saying it was going to be 100 episodes straight. Just calm down, take your time and do it probably I reckon. Also Does Slam Dunk have any filler episodes? I haven't seen it. I mean long running is fine, but if you can't keep the animation decent and are just pumping out fillers so you don't catch up to the source content it's kind of stupid and just pissing off fans. At least they could keep decent animation in the older long runners, but nowadays they can't even do that. Announcements are always made really early. Though the series start around 2-3 years after the manga starts. This will not be different for Boku no Hero Academia that will make 2 years a little after the anime begins(3 months from 2 years), and wasn't different for Shokugeki no Soma(2 years and 4 months) and Haikyu!!(2 years and 1 month). World Trigger was the earliest of the bunch with 4 month before reaching 2 years. This is the normal though, if you want to talk of fast you have to look at Hunter x Hunter that had 19 months and a half before getting an adapatation. Or faster, Saint Seiya, 9 months later. Are you calling a 1 season filler, long filler? This is basically the size of the smallest filler arcs. Toei for majority of time only does fillers as long as those. Toei Animation never said the size of Dragon Ball Super! Toei Europe placed a 100 episode placeholder in their site, and then later removed it. The internet went crazy just because of it. Normally those place holders mean that they are planning for adapting at least 2 years of the series, not exactly 100 episodes. Is quite normal for Toei series "reappearances" to have around 2 years. Dragon Ball GT, Dr. Slump and Gegege no Kitaro are examples of this happening. Pissing of fans? Are you talking of the Anime fans in the internet? Because those guys are totally not Toei Target Audience. Their Audience is Children. It always was and it is also right now. In terms of animation it just like when it was in the past. In reality right now they place a lot more Sakuga, so is in fact better. lukeycow said: MysticLeviathan said: Do mangaka have any say in which studio produces their anime? Why would anyone in their right mind allow Toei or Pierrot to adapt their series into an anime? It's become a freaking death sentence for any Toei series in recent memory and a more likely than not chance of being garbage if it's done by Pierrot. I would think they do, but most would accept any offer unless their series is selling really well and it's pretty well guaranteed another company will want to pick it up. Also the publisher would have a lot of say and probably recommend they accept. I mean, if your a new mangaka who has never had a successful series before and a company wants to pick up your manga, you'll probably say yes no matter who it is. I don't think many mangaka are so confident in their series that they will keep denying requests until they get one from a good studio. Plus it's pretty rude turning down an offer. and considering how crazy the Japanese can get about not being rude and being respectful, it'd take a pretty confident mangaka to say no. It's simple, but I'd imagine itd would happen quite a lot over there. All authors have a say, that are the owners of the propriety. Though they give the handling of the franchise to the publisher, so they normally only really get the final say. For example the author of Ahiru no Sora already rejected 2 proposals. The guy from Yotsuba also isn't accepting any. Kishimoto only accepted a studio with a director he knew and loved. The director at the time was in Studio Pierrot(I believe he still his) so Naruto went to Pierrot. Note, that Ahiru no Sora is the author first work! A popular series will get more pressure to get an anime adaptation, and more pressure to get a good deal. Obviously an author of a not that popular series rejecting a proposal is a bad move for him, unless the proposal is really that bad. Note that this is not something as banal as only looking at which studio will do the series, but what the company is proposing to do with the franchise over all. Also rarely any author would reject a Toei Animation and Studio Pierrot proposal! |
WhiteFlamee said: bigivelfhq said: That is totally not true! Toei's World Trigger is doing incredible well, better than what was expected of it. Toriko also did incredible well. One Piece got its immense boost in December 2009, making the same money as entire Studio Pierrot sales, just from Domestic Licensing. And that was done because of the amazing handling of Toei animation and the franchise keeps doing incredible well still now, and this year with the Movie is possible that the franchise will increase. Precure, that is an original Toei Animation series, keeps selling more than some of the Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya, Sailor Moon and Digimon got incredible revivals also because of Toei Animation. You then have Tanken Driland, Majin Bone, Marvel Disk Wars Avengers, Robot Girls Z that did quite well for what they were conceived to be. Why would an author allow Toei to handle their series adaptations? Because Toei Animation is the best and most known studio for kids and young teens, the demographic of Weekly Shounen Jump! And because they are the best studio at planning and handling a franchise. Studio Pierrot series being bad is totally up for opinion. In terms of the general public they do quite well. Tokyo Ghoul did amazingly well, being one of the best recent boosts a manga got. Akatsuki no Yona was pretty good and also got a good manga boost. Osomatsu is the big thing of the moment, being an astronomical revival of a franchise, getting 90k copies sold for the first volume, and that volume will certainly sell more copies. Why would an author allow Studio Pierrot handle their series adaptations? Because the are one of the best and most known studios in the industry and they make series that are liked by a big group of people, highly increasing the popularity of the existing series. They also have a good handling of franchises. Wouldnt that mean all mangakas aim for Toei to animate there series? why didnt Togashi let Toei animate HxH then? It would have been better in there hands or was toei scared of togashis laziness? I saw that fist of the north star had some OVA/Movie animated by a different studio. Will Toei ever let other studiios animate OVAs for smaller series of theres like World Trigger, Devilman, Kinnikuman and hell even Toriko? Is not that they aim for Toei, because a lot of other anime studios are also good. Just that getting an anime adapted for Toei is a really good thing. Why do you think Toei shown any interest adapting HxH? Is not like Toei sends proposals to every series. The reason Toei is so good in planning is because they know what they are doing, this is not about getting all the fish but the best for the moment. At the exact time HxH got an anime adaptation(in the same week of its first episode) Toei Animation started the anime adaptation of One Piece! Toei also at that time were already doing a ton of series: 1- One Piece, 2- Digimon, 3- Doremi, 4- Kindaichi Case Files 5- Jeanne, the kamikaze thief All of them being long running series! So Toei was rather busy. Also I don't think HxH is really the series Toei look for. What you should be asking is why Pierrot didn't got HxH. They already had worked with the author, and made him mega famous, and they even made the 1st HxH episode for Jump Tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpL9b0DnqpM. The author of Fist of the North Star tooks the series rights from Shueisha! At that time Toei Animation that had rights provided by Shueisha lost them by implication. After that anybody interested in doing something of Fist of the North Star could negotiate with the author. For what it looks like Toei wasn't interested in doing anything more, at least not at that time, with the franchise, so TMS Entertainment got to do the OVAs. Kinnikuman rights still are Shueisha, so still also Toei! Note that the reason Fist of the North Star got away from Shueisha was because the author wanted to go to another publisher. A publisher made by old famous mangaka, that didn't wanted to stay in the highly competitive and always looking for young people publisher. The guy from City Hunter also did that. I don't know about Devilman, but given that Toei Animation doesn't make anything from the franchise in a long time is possible already lost the rights. For World Trigger and Toriko to reach the same situation as Fist of the North Star, they will need a long, long time before it happens. |
| Where is my Kingdom remake? The previous adaptation was fkn tragic |
MysticLeviathan said: eternaltorture said: Where is my Kingdom remake? The previous adaptation was fkn tragic Bingo. And Toriko's literally destroyed any hope of the series gaining huge popularity in Japan. And World Trigger is a freaking mess. So few adaptations by Toei or Pierrot in recent memory have been quality stuff. The thing about an anime adaptation is if it's garbage, you're kinda screwed. It's a huge endeavor to have an adaptation, so the odds that another studio would try again are very low, you'd have to wait many years for another studio to try it again. I just don't understand how any mangaka could have faith in Toei or Pierrot when they give zero TLC to the series they adapt. At least BnHA doesn't have either of the two demons animating its series, now it at least has some hope for success. MysticLeviathan said: eternaltorture said: Where is my Kingdom remake? The previous adaptation was fkn tragic Bingo. And Toriko's literally destroyed any hope of the series gaining huge popularity in Japan. And World Trigger is a freaking mess. So few adaptations by Toei or Pierrot in recent memory have been quality stuff. The thing about an anime adaptation is if it's garbage, you're kinda screwed. It's a huge endeavor to have an adaptation, so the odds that another studio would try again are very low, you'd have to wait many years for another studio to try it again. I just don't understand how any mangaka could have faith in Toei or Pierrot when they give zero TLC to the series they adapt. At least BnHA doesn't have either of the two demons animating its series, now it at least has some hope for success. It has little to do with another studio not trying again because is a huge endeavor, but because of copyrights. Toei Animation and Studio Pierrot are studios that get licensing rights of series. Though I think that Studio Pierrot doesn't have the rights of Kingdom, Toei has the rights of Toriko! If you get the copyrights of any IP(Intelectual Propriety) it means that only with your consent a 3rd party can copy the work, and this includes any little kind of copy even fan fiction. Again, you're talking really radical stuff that in reality isn't truth at all. I can also say that Madhouse destroyed any hope of One Punch Man series gaining huge popularity in Japan. Also destroyed the popularity of Ore Monogatari, Chiayafuru, Parasyte, Death Parade, the remake of Hunter x Hunter and others of their works. You will defend those series for having "Quality", but the thing is that Toriko was more popular than any of those. What Toriko could have been or not, if the adaptation was better, is pure speculation. Your absolute certainty that it would gain Huge popularity is just the denial and anger stage of grievance. Being rational, knowing that the anime was seen for 3 entire years. Note it isn't 1, nor 2, but 3 entire years by a ton of people, ranking always in the Top 10 series most watched in Japan, is obvious that the fact that the franchise didn't got better reception, was because of the source(And note that the reception was quite good). Note how Tokyo Ghoul anime wasn't that much popular for itself, but it boosted immensely the manga. Now ask yourself why the immense quantity of people watching the anime of Toriko didn't went to buy the volumes! Funny you're talking that BnHA is in good hands, when Bones is a studio that in the latest years has been getting a ton of flops, and the only great series of the no flops is Kekkai Sensen. The studio has been doing badly lately to the point of getting negative Incomes for the last 2 years. |
ChocoBar9 said: bigivelfhq said: Again, you're talking really radical stuff that in reality isn't truth at all. I can also say that Madhouse destroyed any hope of One Punch Man series gaining huge popularity in Japan. Also destroyed the popularity of Ore Monogatari, Chiayafuru, Parasyte, Death Parade, the remake of Hunter x Hunter and others of their works. You will defend those series for having "Quality", but the thing is that Toriko was more popular than any of those. Toriko got canceled and its sales (both anime and manga) can't compare to any of those examples. If Toriko was doing well enough Toei wouldn't have been quick to end it for DBZ Kai while all those examples ended due to lack of material or because they did their job by promoting the source of material. bigivelfhq said: Funny you're talking that BnHA is in good hands, when Bones is a studio that in the latest years has been getting a ton of flops, and the only great series of the no flops is Kekkai Sensen. The studio has been doing badly lately to the point of getting negative Incomes for the last 2 years. He's talking about quality though whether the studio is in good state or not is irrelevant. As long as they get hired to do anime shows, they can run indefinitely in the red and despite your claim of "negative profits" they're still continuing to get work and are always involved with high profile properties which is the exact opposite of studios who went under like manglobe that got bankrupt because they weren't getting enough work not because their shows flopped, Arms has not had a hit show in years but keep getting work, Gonzo came back from the dead just by giving up their popular shows for license and doing outside work, etc. It's only a problem once nobody wants to hire them anymore. But that would simply mean that Bones won't do original anime for a while until their finances are alright again. However, their ambitious original anime are a good way to advertise themselves as being that studio that does good animation work (mostly) and isn't afraid of doing risky projects. "Toriko sales of anime and manga can't compare to any of those examples", let's see: Best Manga volume after anime: 1,193,383 - Hunter x Hunter(Before anime 1,090,309. 103,074 increase!) *,694,060 - One Punch Man(Before anime 485,440. 208,620 increase!)(Still increasing so it will certainly get more) *,487,114 - Toriko(Before anime 276,810. 210,304 increase!) *,482,766 - Ore Monogatari(Before anime 420,000. 62,766 increase!) *,444,431 - Chihayafuru(Before anime 309,141. 135,290 increase!) Anime sales per disk 10,122 - One-Punch Man(for now) 3,235 - Chihayafuru 2nd season 2,802 - Chihayafuru 1st season *,923 - Death Parade(Only had a Blu-ray box, so this is also its total sales) *,710 - Ore Monogatari *,639 - Toriko *,627 - Parasyte *,443 - Hunter x Hunter(2011) Now add TV ratings and Merchandise, and Toriko makes better than any series here, with One Punch-Man being a possible one surpassing it. " If Toriko was doing well enough Toei wouldn't have been quick to end it for DBZ Kai" -> This is only right if you forget who is Dragon Ball franchise. Alone, the Dragon Ball franchise just before substituting Toriko it was selling half of the 10th best selling anime studio. Half! And the series was in an upward trend due to Battle of Gods Movie. Toriko is nothing compared to this unfortunately, and at the time was in a sales downward trend. In the end they substituted Toriko for Dragon Ball and now the serie(DB) is selling around the same as the 6th best selling anime studio. I see you don't understand what Net Income means. Net Income is the money after every earnings and expenses/costs a company has in a period of time, in this case I'm talking yearly. Net Incomes takes in consideration every transaction a company does. Having Negative Income means that they are Loosing money. A company isn't made of unlimited resources, if the trend of Negative Income continues soon or later Bones goes under. Unless other entity is constantly injecting money to it, and that entity isn't asking for the money back. Manglobe went Bankrupt because of debt! It doesn't matter if they had many or little work. What matters is that they had no mean to pay what they owed, and they missed every payment final date. The little work was only responsible for them not earning money to pay the debt, debt that they had to pay. Do you know Madhouse? In 2010 they filed for Bankrupcy and they still had a ton of work. If it wasn't for NTV they would have disappeared. And this happened because they had a debt of 700 Million yen. No, he was talking of an author series being in good hands with Bones(something that I personally think it is), because their series had Success and Quality, while Toei Animation and Studio Pierrot are Flops and Garbage. The thing is that in fact lately Bones series have been flop, with just Kekkai Sensen doing incredible well. In other hand Toei Animation and Studio Pierrot series are successful. Pierrot even got Osomatsu-san selling 90k copies for its 1st volume and is still increasing. So how is being in better hands to have a Quality Flop than a Successful Garbage? |
ChocoBar9 said: Kingdom, Tokyo Ghoul, Sabagebu, Akatsuki no Yona were all flops I don't know much about those Toei shows but most of these weren't flops. - Kingdom is an NHK show like Baby Steps so sales don't really matter. That's why both had two seasons despite the low BD sales. - Tokyo ghoul anime sold reasonably well and even had two more OVAs. It also has a mobile and PS vita game where the latter sold more than 10k copies. The series also had stage play produced by Marvelous Entertainment and Studio Pierrot which had a great reception in Japan. If it's a flop as you say then I don't see why they'd be working on another game this year. - Akatsuki no Yona is a shoujo anime which rarely ever sells. The BD/DVD sales had an average of 2.7k and yet when compared to other shoujo anime made by other studios recently, it sold more such as Akagami no Shirayuki-hime made by Bones (1.9k), Ao Haru Ride by Production I.G (1.9k) or Ore Monogatari!! by Madhouse (0.7k). The manga sales also increased and sells twice as much as it used to so the anime was certainly not a flop. |
Z4KFeb 13, 2016 12:24 PM
ChocoBar9 said: Toriko never made oricon top selling franchise quarter lists while OPM, HxH, Chiayafuru and Ore all did and if it was doing well in the ratings it would have not I been canceled. People will always remember a quality show over garbage, people still remember Wolf's Rain while people don't remember Blue Dragon or Toriko shows deemed "successful". That list doesn't cover everything (no merchandise/mobile game sales). >wolf's rain >quality XD XD |
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| @WhiteFlamee Here in this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1479069 @ChocoBar9 About the manga an anime! - I said that Toriko anime was more popular than any of those other anime series by Madhouse. (Remember this point, because that is all and only what I arguing!) - You said that in terms of anime and manga Toriko can't compare to any of those series. I showed 2 list where in Total Toriko is above 4 series and though lower similar with other 3. So obviously "can't compare" is wrong. - About how much the anime increased the manga sales . Remember my point? That the Toriko anime was more popular than the others. There is no other series here that got a biggest manga boost than Toriko. The ones that sell higher were already selling before their animes. - Note I'm not here discussing that Toriko sells less than the others. But that the anime was more popular. That was all the point of the conversation. That Toriko anime was garbage and destroyed its potential popularity. TV Ratings and Merchandise Did you ever looked at Toriko TV Ratings? Certainly not, because saying that it was doing badly is completely wrong. You can look here from first Toriko ranking to the last: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-04-14/japan-animation-tv-ranking-march-28-april-3 Here the first 5 positions and rankings: 5th - 9.4 8th - 7.9 4th - 6.7 6th - 7.7 6th - 6.9 ... For Merchandising you're talking of Oricon top selling franchise? Oricon top selling franchise reports Blu-ray Discs, DVDs, music CDs, novels, and manga. And only that! None of those are merchandise! Also if Oricon had this ranking in the 1st and 2nd year of Toriko anime he would certainly appear, given that he got in 5th and 11th best sold manga in those years. For Merchandise you have to go look at Charabiz, that list the top character brands. In 2012 Toriko entered the Top 100, in 86 position, earning 1.99 Billion yen(just in merchandise). Nor HxH and Chihayafuru, series active at that time, appeared in the List. In reality HxH never appeared in Charabiz. Unfortunately we don't get info from Charabiz since the 2012 list. Still obviously Parasite, Ore Monogatari and Death parade didn't do better than Toriko. The only title that I see can possible have better Merchandise sales than Toriko is One Punch Man, but the series is too recent to be able to right now surpass that values. Here is 2012 Charabiz(is in japanese, Toriko is number 86): http://bbs.ngacn.cc/read.php?tid=6297211&rand=110 About Toriko Cancellation You might think Dragon Ball is a failed money grab, but like I said in my previous post the money it does is equivalent to 1 of the top anime studios. Equivalent to the kinds of Madhouse and Production I.G. Dragon Ball substituted Toriko, so obviously it has everything to do with Toriko demise. Is not like a series cancellation is done in the void. There exist a context! And note that Dragon Ball never was a failed money grab! About Net Income You totally don't know what Net Income of a company is right? It has nothing to do with what you're talking about. I'm not talking of revenue at all. Here the definition of Net Income: What is 'Net Income - NI' A company's total earnings (or profit). Net income is calculated by taking revenues and adjusting for the cost of doing business, depreciation, interest, taxes and other expenses. This number is found on a company's income statement and is an important measure of how profitable the company is over a period of time. The measure is also used to calculate earnings per share. About Bones "Also going through their financial report BONES isn't in any trouble nor making negative profits." So you to you this sign "-" doesn't mean negative? Here their report -> http://s21.postimg.org/4oaikeoqf/1454515326158.jpg Here the translated: Capital -> 10,000,000 yen Workers -> 64 Fiscal year 2013(April 2013 to March 2014) Sales -> 1,980,000,000 yen Net Income -> -123,500,000 yen Fiscal year 2014(April 2014 to March 2015) Sales -> 1,222,000,000 yen Net Income -> -63,978,000 yen "BONES used to have series that had quality and sales and still do from time to time" Bones series of half of last decade 2015 - Concrete Revolutio - Noragami - Snow White with the Red Hair - Kekkai Sensen 2014 - Hitsugi no Chaika - Space Dandy - Soul Eater Not! - Captain Earth - Tenkai Night 2013 NOTHING 2012 - Blast of Tempest - Eureka Seven: Astral ocean 2011 - Un-Go - No. 6 - Gosik 2010 - Star Friver - Heroman Successful series from time to time? LOL. In those 6 years it did 1 that can be considered successful by your qualification: Kekkai Sensen. About Toei Animation " all they've been doing is pushing those series (One Piece, DBZ, PreCure and Naruto) when they stepped outside that They've been complete failures." Pierrot I don't have data but Toei I have. Toei Animation Sales not counting their big series(One Piece, Precure, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, Saint Seiya, Digimon, Toriko): 2014 - 4.64 Billion Yen 2013 - 3.76 Billion yen 2012 - 4.01 Billion Yen ... Why do you talk without having the minimum idea if what you're talking is right or not? So being complete failures outside their big series is selling more than Bones and Kyoto animation Together? |
bigivelfhqFeb 13, 2016 2:52 PM
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