andy97 said: Mayuka said: it breaks a serious scene if you have tits/ass/muscles flashing on the screen for example I was so invested in Code Geass story I barely noticed these scenes That's a normal thing for a person who doesn't allow his/her sexuality (and/or anti-sexual prejudice) rule him/her. Are all those people who complain about fanservice distracting them teenagers? |
flannan said: That's a normal thing for a person who doesn't allow his/her sexuality (and/or anti-sexual prejudice) rule him/her. Are all those people who complain about fanservice distracting them teenagers? Only a teenager would dismiss it out of hand without considering context ;) But seriously - no, ecchi does matter in that it needs to be placed and used appropriately, it's a comic tool after all and nothing more. Going beyond that it also invariably changes the tone of the show if the camera is constantly at a low angle or aiming for an ass/tit shot, it naturally destroys tension and no amount of arguing will dismiss that because it just does. The camera is what focuses the viewers attention, in a dramatic or tense scene then it should be building up the tension by showing us things which will be relevant to the climax or hiding them if a surprise is incoming (like a character coming in from off screen) anything else is ruining the tension if the scene and by its very nature poorly placed. For example, fight scenes come up here - no fight scene with panty shots will ever have me on the edge of my seat, unless there's a good reason for there to be one the act of doing that only makes it clear that no one in the fight scene is in danger, at least not hero-wise. It makes it clear that the entire scene is, at least somewhat, comic. This is fine, if lazy, for some shows but for others it destroys the tone of the series. If you honestly don't think fanservice has an impact on the show then you don't know what you're talking about ^^ and just so we're clear, fanservice is not really any and all nakedness, it is nudity or semi-nudity designed specifically to arouse or amuse the viewer, it's usually very obvious when it's done for fanservice and when it's done just because a character is naturally going to be nude in that scene. Finally, Code Geass is an interesting once since the series itself is all about melodrama and theatrics so honestly the fanservice never really bothered me - not that the scene which has been linked is dramatic at all - it's a comedic scene. But series like that and Kill La Kill, Gurren Lagann can get away with it because it fits, again, with the tone of a show which is all about showing you an over the top world where crazy shit happens and the characters look good. So yeah - tone and placement are what's important, rather than the 'fanservice' itself. |
| So, I began watching anime in 2006.... For the first three years or so I was like many of today's new MALers... Always bitching about fanservice and saying I would never accept it. Thankfully, I stopped giving a shit, realized these are just cartoons, and my dick also realized it was ok to fap to drawings. Ever since then watching anime is truly more of a hobby then pretending it's something serious/deep/important. My point is...the fanservice/ecchi haters need to calm their tits....NO, anime doesn't need to be less perverted or more serious...it's a goddamn cartoon! |
andy97 said: I was invested but I'm also an artist who gets bothered by wacky proportions of human bodies. I act like this for many as well, whenever a limb is too long or too big.Mayuka said: it breaks a serious scene if you have tits/ass/muscles flashing on the screen for example I was so invested in Code Geass story I barely noticed these scenes flannan said: I'm asexual and I'm not a teenager. That's a normal thing for a person who doesn't allow his/her sexuality (and/or anti-sexual prejudice) rule him/her. Are all those people who complain about fanservice distracting them teenagers? |
| so the most common response i seem to see is "it kills the mood" how does it do so? is having a boner that distracting to you? i still don't understand how a tense moment stops being tense just because you can see a girls panties, boobs etc i was still fearing for who may die in HoTD despite being hard 1/2 the time, and the death scenes of the girls didn't become "less fucked up" just cause you may have seen their tits bounce or their upskirt will they were being killed am i alone here? yall need to watch some heavy fanservice oriented shows (if you don't already) then go back and tell me if the odd shot is "distracting" i do agree however that fanservice that doesn't slow down the pace is better, but thats not because it doesnt slow down the pace. its because theyre more likely to surprise you with an out of nowhere shot, which to me are the best. its usually not as hot if i see it coming i'd rather see a scene of a girl bending over to pick something up, than a character constantly walking around in a skimpy outfit, cause you already know the outfit is coming after the first time. (that scene of kallens ass was sexy af, and didnt interfere with the plot, yall are trippin) i want the female characters to be sexy, its fiction, we can make them however we want. so if i don't see the occasional shot of their tits or ass, ill prefer another character over them, i mean its not like their real, so i can't hold them to same standard i do with real women, no matter how much i wish they existed again, the target audience is mostly "childless single males who masturbate to anime" so of course they know people who like that shit are going to want to see it occasionally every now and then and btw, i have seen several anime with little to know fanservice, so its not like i don't watch and enjoy those, its just it can only help me enjoy the show more |
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| Because most people can't focus on something when there are boobs in their face. Weak minded people I guess... |
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Mamster-P said: i don't get fucking aroused by 2d people omg lmaoso the most common response i seem to see is "it kills the mood" how does it do so? is having a boner that distracting to you? i still don't understand how a tense moment stops being tense just because you can see a girls panties, boobs etc it's the same as trying to have a serious or sad scene and then suddenly seeing a john cena... how is this hard to understand? |
| Nice derail. Keep it up and you'll be banned. |
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Mayuka said: I was invested but I'm also an artist who gets bothered by wacky proportions of human bodies. I act like this for many as well, whenever a limb is too long or too big. I'm a physicist. Don't get me started on anime physics. Especially not TTGL physics. But "wacky proportions" means that what bothers you is not fanservice, it's bad art quality, right? Mamster-P said: so the most common response i seem to see is "it kills the mood" how does it do so? is having a boner that distracting to you? i still don't understand how a tense moment stops being tense just because you can see a girls panties, boobs etc i was still fearing for who may die in HoTD despite being hard 1/2 the time, and the death scenes of the girls didn't become "less fucked up" just cause you may have seen their tits bounce or their upskirt will they were being killed am i alone here? No, you are not alone. Personally, I find things like pantyshots when a girl is getting killed (as opposed to just fighting) to be disturbing. I think tvtropes calls it "fan disservice". Is this what the authors wanted? I don't know, I don't understand the whole "horror" mentality. Kreion said: But seriously - no, ecchi does matter in that it needs to be placed and used appropriately, it's a comic tool after all and nothing more. Going beyond that it also invariably changes the tone of the show if the camera is constantly at a low angle or aiming for an ass/tit shot, it naturally destroys tension and no amount of arguing will dismiss that because it just does. The camera is what focuses the viewers attention, in a dramatic or tense scene then it should be building up the tension by showing us things which will be relevant to the climax or hiding them if a surprise is incoming (like a character coming in from off screen) anything else is ruining the tension if the scene and by its very nature poorly placed. For example, fight scenes come up here - no fight scene with panty shots will ever have me on the edge of my seat, unless there's a good reason for there to be one the act of doing that only makes it clear that no one in the fight scene is in danger, at least not hero-wise. It makes it clear that the entire scene is, at least somewhat, comic. This is fine, if lazy, for some shows but for others it destroys the tone of the series. Well, it might be that I just prefer light-hearted shows, but I don't think panty shots get in the way of the tension. At least, I enjoyed the fight scenes of Panty Strike Witches perfectly well. Kreion said: If you honestly don't think fanservice has an impact on the show then you don't know what you're talking about ^^ and just so we're clear, fanservice is not really any and all nakedness, it is nudity or semi-nudity designed specifically to arouse or amuse the viewer, it's usually very obvious when it's done for fanservice and when it's done just because a character is naturally going to be nude in that scene. But why is a character nude in the first place? Because the author made it so, for the sake of fanservice. Example: I don't know why humans in Elfen Lied are so evil, but it's still no reason to keep the main character naked in the lab, unless all the scientists liked looking at naked girls. (a single tsundere in the team would've stopped that) |
| Exactly. You said it yourself, OP. It makes me stop taking the show seriously. When I watch a show, I want to see a strong female character make an impact through her actions, not through the size of her breasts. There really is no way you can say with a straight face that fanservice segments don't hamper a show's quality, because it does. |
Waiting patiently for springtime to return! n_n Join the Social Justice Club now! Everyone dedicated to spreading feminism on MAL is welcome to join! Link to my interview! |
xxLittleCr0w said: you guys do know that its a parody of the grind house genre right No, I do not. In fact, I don't even know what grind house genre is. To me, HotD is just zombie apocalypse the anime. |
merryfistmas said: tsudecimo said: Yet you have KLK and FLCL in your favorites. So what's the process of logic here..? merryfistmas said: I prefer most of my shows to have zero fan service. FLCL doesn't really have fan service, unless you're referring to the sexual innuendos which are not fan service. I don't think KLK needs an explanation. Again, my issue with fan service being crammed into the most inappropriate places or in stories that are otherwise serious. KLK has nudity, yes. It also fits with the tone and theme. It's a world of bumbling buffoons where clothing=power, so of course some will use 'nudity' as power. Also, the show is merely aware that sexuality is a part of being a human. KLK doesn't shove its fanservice in your face. People merely sport their looks while advancing the story. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
xxLittleCr0w said: flannan said: No, I do not. In fact, I don't even know what grind house genre is. To me, HotD is just zombie apocalypse the anime. An Grindhouse/exploitation film is any film which tries to succeed financially by exploiting a current trend, a niche genre, or a lurid subject matter. Subjects which these films exploit include, but are not limited to, sex, violence, and romance. Exploitation films are generally low-quality "B movies. Okay, so it isn't really a genre, it's a term of abuse similar to "pretentious" and "pandering". How do we know HotD is a parody of it? |
Mamster-P said: so the most common response i seem to see is "it kills the mood" how does it do so? is having a boner that distracting to you? i still don't understand how a tense moment stops being tense just because you can see a girls panties, boobs etc i was still fearing for who may die in HoTD despite being hard 1/2 the time, and the death scenes of the girls didn't become "less fucked up" just cause you may have seen their tits bounce or their upskirt will they were being killed am i alone here? yall need to watch some heavy fanservice oriented shows (if you don't already) then go back and tell me if the odd shot is "distracting" i do agree however that fanservice that doesn't slow down the pace is better, but thats not because it doesnt slow down the pace. its because theyre more likely to surprise you with an out of nowhere shot, which to me are the best. its usually not as hot if i see it coming i'd rather see a scene of a girl bending over to pick something up, than a character constantly walking around in a skimpy outfit, cause you already know the outfit is coming after the first time. (that scene of kallens ass was sexy af, and didnt interfere with the plot, yall are trippin) i want the female characters to be sexy, its fiction, we can make them however we want. so if i don't see the occasional shot of their tits or ass, ill prefer another character over them, i mean its not like their real, so i can't hold them to same standard i do with real women, no matter how much i wish they existed again, the target audience is mostly "childless single males who masturbate to anime" so of course they know people who like that shit are going to want to see it occasionally every now and then and btw, i have seen several anime with little to know fanservice, so its not like i don't watch and enjoy those, its just it can only help me enjoy the show more It kills the mood for a lot of people because it's simply out of place a lot of the time. Your example of HoTD is a bad one because that show exists just to be "tits and zombies." People watch that specifically for the fanservice. You keep saying that people "can't concentrate with a boner" - I've a counter question : can you not enjoy anime unless you have a boner? That's what it seems to boil down to. yall need to watch some heavy fanservice oriented shows (if you don't already) then go back and tell me if the odd shot is "distracting" Check my favourites list. You'll see I've nothing against heavy fanservice - only when it is actually fitting for the anime / scene . |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| I can tolerate, and even enjoy ecchi fanservice if I like other aspects of the show, but it is true that it can be distracting and silly. Like, for example, every time Seri (from K) was on screen, some anime pervert was handling the camera. I just rolled my eyes at how stupid this looked. |
on TheBrainintheJar said: Jesus Christ!merryfistmas said: FLCL doesn't really have fan service, unless you're referring to the sexual innuendos which are not fan service. I don't think KLK needs an explanation. Again, my issue with fan service being crammed into the most inappropriate places or in stories that are otherwise serious. KLK has nudity, yes. It also fits with the tone and theme. It's a world of bumbling buffoons where clothing=power, so of course some will use 'nudity' as power. Also, the show is merely aware that sexuality is a part of being a human. KLK doesn't shove its fanservice in your face. People merely sport their looks while advancing the story. They really didn't shove it to my face... but it sure fit the main theme of the show with "to prove your idealism and conviction you need to don a revealing outfit and flaunt your ass perfectly" kind of show... |
TROLLPEDIA said: TheBrainintheJar said: Jesus Christ!KLK has nudity, yes. It also fits with the tone and theme. It's a world of bumbling buffoons where clothing=power, so of course some will use 'nudity' as power. Also, the show is merely aware that sexuality is a part of being a human. KLK doesn't shove its fanservice in your face. People merely sport their looks while advancing the story. They really didn't shove it to my face... but it sure fit the main theme of the show with "to prove your idealism and conviction you need to don a revealing outfit and flaunt your ass perfectly" kind of show... That's literally the point of Kill la Kill. In the first place, those scenes don't matter because something happened immediately after causing you to forget that scene, so if you went into it trying to masturbate, you'd have to pause the screen on the shots they appeared. At that point it's better looking up doujins. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
RainyRai said: In the first place, those scenes don't matter because something happened immediately after causing you to forget that scene, so if you went into it trying to masturbate, you'd have to pause the screen on the shots they appeared. At that point it's better looking up doujins. People don't watch ecchi anime to masturbate. Unless it's a "borderline hentai" show, they all don't work for that. At most they can give the viewers a boner, but even that doesn't happen all that often. For any ecchi show, it's better to get some doujins if you want fap material. Ecchi is about romance (as men see it). |
xxLittleCr0w said: flannan said: Okay, so it isn't really a genre, it's a term of abuse similar to "pretentious" and "pandering". How do we know HotD is a parody of it? just look at the names of the episodes They don't tell me anything except that they use the word "dead" in every one of them. It wouldn't be a good proof anyway. |
RainyRai said: I do know the point of Kill la Kill is about ass and even more ass so there's no need to remind me...TROLLPEDIA said: Jesus Christ! They really didn't shove it to my face... but it sure fit the main theme of the show with "to prove your idealism and conviction you need to don a revealing outfit and flaunt your ass perfectly" kind of show... That's literally the point of Kill la Kill. In the first place, those scenes don't matter because something happened immediately after causing you to forget that scene, so if you went into it trying to masturbate, you'd have to pause the screen on the shots they appeared. At that point it's better looking up doujins. Something happen immediately after it? Well of course, another ass showed up after another, it's an ass galore. |
TROLLPEDIA said: RainyRai said: I do know the point of Kill la Kill is about ass and even more ass so there's no need to remind me...That's literally the point of Kill la Kill. In the first place, those scenes don't matter because something happened immediately after causing you to forget that scene, so if you went into it trying to masturbate, you'd have to pause the screen on the shots they appeared. At that point it's better looking up doujins. Something happen immediately after it? Well of course, another ass showed up after another, it's an ass galore. well it is an ecchi series so of course its gonna have fan service |
merryfistmas said: I don't think KLK needs an explanation. What is this supposed to mean? are you denying its gratuitous amount of sexual fanservice? Nudity might be relevant to the plot but those camera angels certainly aren't. NSFW |
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| I think that the difference is that KlK is self-conscious about the fanservice. Basically it takes it as its main premise, amps it to the max (to the logical conclusion), and in the process subverses it a bit. In a way it addresses the infatuation with fanservice we see in other shows. It's baffling to see boob-grabs after the male striping with that damn music, that KlK used to perk up exposition (!). Other than that I can't see how some people say that fanservice doesn't take anything from a show, cause it obviously takes screentime and animation budget. And nope, I don't think every show is a masterpiece, where they couldn't use the resources for more characterisation or normal action. Also, I dunno, isn't the old tired pantyshot or an onsen episode plain boring by now? |
deadoptimist said: Other than that I can't see how some people say that fanservice doesn't take anything from a show, cause it obviously takes screentime and animation budget. And nope, I don't think every show is a masterpiece, where they couldn't use the resources for more characterisation or normal action. Actually, most fanservice scenes are rather still, and thus don't eat up much budget. |
Something happen immediately after it? Well of course, another ass showed up after another, it's an ass galore.  Anyway, If you have a half decent plot to start with I don't think a bit of ecchi will take anything away from it. |
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flannan said: deadoptimist said: Other than that I can't see how some people say that fanservice doesn't take anything from a show, cause it obviously takes screentime and animation budget. And nope, I don't think every show is a masterpiece, where they couldn't use the resources for more characterisation or normal action. Actually, most fanservice scenes are rather still, and thus don't eat up much budget. That stuff with the walking boob-lady, quoted above, seemed not so static. And an onsen episode or a beach episode must take effort and money. Edit: Lmao, I remember the unnecessary beach episode with traps out of nowhere in Gargantia. It killed the show for many, cause it was the 4th one, even though otherwise the series was pretty close to thoughtful sci-fi. Second edit: However the dance in the 6th episode was both tittilating (I hope I get the word right), and served a purpose. |
deadoptimistJan 28, 2016 5:19 AM
| Also let me butt in another time - I don't think that fanservice and plot are binary opposites. Naked characters are, most likely, done for eye candy at best, but it can be woven in the plot well. Sexual representation of a character can be meaningful, or, on the other hand, a plot-relevant explanation can be used to wriggle in some nudity. It's not either-or. Well, in my opinion. |
RobocopGay said: I watched No Game no Life expecting a really great story, with discussions about society and social pressure. I mostly got tits. Instead of developing the character's personality, it developed their boobs. Why is this a problem? because it wasted a lot of time doing that, i waited a week for an episode of only twenty five minutes, are you really going to waste such little time with fan service? I used an anime that i watched as an exemple, there are a lot others out there using ecchi as a cheap way to gain viewers, instead of using hard work to make an intriguing history and creative and well written characters, they prefer to do what is easy and gain money on it. You expected a discussion about society and social pressure from an anime about two nerds falling into a game world? I'd say your expectations were already way off the mark. Also NGNL really did not have THAT much fanservice. I can remember two episodes which were pretty fanservice-heavy, everything else I wouldn't even call an ecchi-episode. |
Kreion said: flannan said: But why is a character nude in the first place? Because the author made it so, for the sake of fanservice. Example: I don't know why humans in Elfen Lied are so evil, but it's still no reason to keep the main character naked in the lab, unless all the scientists liked looking at naked girls. (a single tsundere in the team would've stopped that) No - not all authors intentions are the same and I question your enjoyment of any series for presuming so. Humans get naked in their life, humans have sex in their life, humans are aroused in their life, these things are not inherently placed for fanservice. If I were writing a serious, realistic show I might still put nudity or sex in it because that IS realistic, it may also be relevant to that particular character and their emotional development. Someone taking a shower or a bath is not inherantly fanservice either, humans think in the shower/bath because we have nothing else to do in those periods of time - though I will admit that most of the time these scenes are used for fanservice though not all. Why would the strap an experimental subject naked in a lab? Because that's science - any alien would also be strapped in a lab naked, especially if we're talking about a subject who is still being experimented on. Nudity is not inherently sexy, if you think it is then you really are just a teenager, there are plenty of times people can be nude in a situation which is not arrousing to say the least. Hey - perfect example is Asuka in EoE, that scene is not erotic to anyone but a love-starved boy going through puberty and even he knows how fucked up it is. Sun rises and falls in real life. In an anime, it only does so because the author wants it to, when he/she wants it to. Humans have sex in their life, but in an ecchi anime they never do so, no matter how hard they try. (the rest of the cast breaking their door down is a classic) The author has perfect control over everything that happens. The experimental subject needs not to stay naked in a lab when the experiment in not in process. To start with, there is no need for any experimentation except that the scientists are pointlessly evil. Just take a few DNA samples, find the genes that code for telekinesis, and give all the humans their new shiny psychic powers! Secondly, all the differences between diclonii and humans are in their heads, which was covered by a helm that makes any useful experimentation impossible. And of course, why the hell do you want to spoil your results by having the subject not wear clothes, thus drastically changing their termoregulation in comparison to their "wild" state? |
tsudecimo said: merryfistmas said: I don't think KLK needs an explanation. What is this supposed to mean? are you denying its gratuitous amount of sexual fanservice? Nudity might be relevant to the plot but those camera angels certainly aren't. NSFW No, not at all. Perhaps I should rephrase. Because fan service is often used (imo) poorly, whether it be because of timing or just not being funny or erotic, I'd prefer not to see it most of the time. It is often over the top which is usually more obnoxious than anything else but because KLK is the most ridiculous show ever, and because everything else is blown out of proportion to the same degree, it works. But the majority of shows don't need it. EDIT: Also what RainyRai said. |
merryfistmasJan 28, 2016 11:25 AM
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RobocopGay said: I watched No Game no Life expecting a really great story, with discussions about society and social pressure. I mostly got tits. Instead of developing the character's personality, it developed their boobs. Why is this a problem? because it wasted a lot of time doing that, i waited a week for an episode of only twenty five minutes, are you really going to waste such little time with fan service? I used an anime that i watched as an exemple, there are a lot others out there using ecchi as a cheap way to gain viewers, instead of using hard work to make an intriguing history and creative and well written characters, they prefer to do what is easy and gain money on it. Why? What about Neet Shut-ins that get sent to another world and don't even want to look for a way back make you think about society and social pressure? I'm not saying that the social pressure and societal influence don't take part, but the show was first and foremost trying to be a fun trip into another world with it's own set of rules. All that other stuff was icing on the cake. All you're doing is looking at the cake. Thinking it's all icing, eating it and complaining about the stomach problems you got from it. You make no sense. |
TROLLPEDIA said: TheBrainintheJar said: Jesus Christ!KLK has nudity, yes. It also fits with the tone and theme. It's a world of bumbling buffoons where clothing=power, so of course some will use 'nudity' as power. Also, the show is merely aware that sexuality is a part of being a human. KLK doesn't shove its fanservice in your face. People merely sport their looks while advancing the story. They really didn't shove it to my face... but it sure fit the main theme of the show with "to prove your idealism and conviction you need to don a revealing outfit and flaunt your ass perfectly" kind of show... These are screenshots. The show doesn't linger on them too much. It does for a little in the first episodes but it quickly stops. Anyone looking for sexy shots will be disappointed. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
It kills the mood for a lot of people because it's simply out of place a lot of the time. Your example of HoTD is a bad one because that show exists just to be "tits and zombies." People watch that specifically for the fanservice. You keep saying that people "can't concentrate with a boner" - I've a counter question : can you not enjoy anime unless you have a boner? That's what it seems to boil down to. yall need to watch some heavy fanservice oriented shows (if you don't already) then go back and tell me if the odd shot is "distracting" Check my favourites list. You'll see I've nothing against heavy fanservice - only when it is actually fitting for the anime / scene . how you gonna ask to me check your list to see that you watch some heavy ecchi anime and not check mine to see that i watch plenty of anime with little to none lol? People don't watch ecchi anime to masturbate. Unless it's a "borderline hentai" show, they all don't work for that. At most they can give the viewers a boner, but even that doesn't happen all that often. For any ecchi show, it's better to get some doujins if you want fap material. Ecchi is about romance (as men see it). this is hella incorrect lol, not everyone likes hentai over ecchi. some people like me, like the softcore stuff better. i don't even watch hentai anime, cause its nowhere near as hot to me, and i'd rather watch a non ecchi anime than a hentai anime (which of course i do) The problem with ecchi is its impossible to take seriously in the same way a violent schlock show cannot be taken seriously. Ecchi ruins the "mood" because it detracts from serious themes and tone in a show. Your example of HOTD is a great example in that it is hard to take the show seriously as a serious zombie survival show with tons of ecchi fan service not including the gross pedophilia fan service. The good part is nearly every viewer that watches HOTD knows its a schlock ecchi action show that is all about being as over the top as possible and not to be taken seriously at all. If you want to know what makes people angry about ecchi is it appears in many shows and not as simple to avoid as filtering out the ecchi tag. People in general don't want to be oogling at girls in the show that set its tone as depressing or has extremely dark themes. The juxtaposition between ecchi in a show that doesn't set the viewers expectation as an ecchi is what turns people away from anime and what gives the medium a bad name. If you are watching an ecchi show, you already know its coming. People in general don't like ecchi in shows that are not tagged as ecchi. Can you imagine if you were watching star wars where the next shot after destroying the death star was soft core porn fan service with princess Leia and Luke Skywalker? Most people would be disgusted and rightfully so. are yall really watching these shows trying to take them seriously? just cause a show has death or w/e doesn't mean the show is supposed to be taken seriously and im talking about anime here, not live action, we can't choose what real people look like w/o some good CGI, im talking about characters we create. if they want sexy they'll pic an actress that guys generally agree is attractive and put her in a sexy outfit, like they did with slave leia idk, idgive as much of a fuck about an ugly fictional character as i do a hot one, they arent real, so its not like i can hold them to the same standard as a real person in which that wouldn't apply oh and lastly for those who dont know.... the terms "ecchi and hentai" aren't even used in japan as genres for anime, thats western misuse e'tchi = japanese pronunciation of the letter H..... H = hentai.... Hentai = "perverted" e'tchi in japanese usage is slang for 'sex' if you search 'ecchi' on google using the katakana, you actually won't get very many anime pictures like you would if you searched in english so yall who are complaining about "anime not labeled ecchi" that have ecchi in them are doing it wrong the name for hentai anime in japan actually translates to "18+" idr what is is harem anime are referred to as "haremu" and anime with ecchi that arent harems actually don't have a label related to the sexual content in them for japanese people, having random sexual content in their non heavy sexual anime is just a normal thing its us westerners who are deciding whether or not to give an anime an "ecchi" label because we use the term incorrectly other countries (like the one i was born in) just don't look at sexual content in the same negative way that westerners do, and we need to jump on board with that im sure if we didnt have that mindset, people wouldnt care, at least not nearly as much |
EcchiGodMamsterJan 28, 2016 1:23 PM
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Mamster-P said: they arent real, so its not like i can hold them to the same standard as a real person in which that wouldn't apply I don't get this argument at all. A story creates a fictional world, and a viewer gets immersed into it. For that world characters are supposed to be real. That's why breaking the 4th wall, the suspension of disbelief, the loss of immersion, the uncanny valley exist, that's how stories work. If it is all obviously "unreal" from the start, it's useless. Well, in most cases, unless art challenges its conventions or something. And unnecessary fanservice strains your suspension of disbelief. When you see, for example, a group of heroes climbing a snowy mountain to a shrine - aren't you supposed to feel the hardship of their feat, to root for them and worry they may not make it? Otherwise - why to create this, why to watch? And when one of them is a half-naked elven girl, who moans and falls, showing her panties form under the mini-skirt all the time, it breaks this immersion, cause why is she dressed like this in the cold weather? Why should I watch her panties insted of following the heroes' gazes, directed at the towering peak? it's obvious she is shown not for the sake of the story. It breaks the 4-th wall too in a way - you see something that's directed at you in a different way, and doesn't work like the rest of the show. |
deadoptimistJan 28, 2016 2:01 PM
Mamster-P said: how you gonna ask to me check your list to see that you watch some heavy ecchi anime and not check mine to see that i watch plenty of anime with little to none lol? Well done, you let the point being made fly completely over your head. are yall really watching these shows trying to take them seriously? just cause a show has death or w/e doesn't mean the show is supposed to be taken seriously Are you seriously trying to imply that every single show, regardless of the plot, regardless of the genre, regardless of whatever the fuck is happening, is of equal seriousness? That it doesn't matter what themes are being presented? Not sure if trolling at this point. |
It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
Im quite the opposite opinions; imo, the ecchi here made it more annoying and took me out of it. In general I like if its not forced and too obvious but a lot of shows are imo, sadly. I find a lot of ecchi shows like DxD for example to have pretty crappy plots or boring characters. |
15poundfish said: Mamster-P said: are yall really watching these shows trying to take them seriously? just cause a show has death or w/e doesn't mean the show is supposed to be taken seriously The very basic rule of a show is to hold the viewers suspension of disbelief, random ecchi moments ruin it when the viewer is not expected it. Example would be a girl that is so anxious of people seeing her underwear under her skirt all of the time. why not wear shorts? This is common trope in many anime that breaks suspension of disbelief over and over again. Notice how this trope seems to be absent in kids shows because ecchi fan service is rare if not non existent in most of them. Mamster-P said: and im talking about anime here, not live action, we can't choose what real people look like w/o some good CGI, im talking about characters we create. if they want sexy they'll pic an actress that guys generally agree is attractive and put her in a sexy outfit, like they did with slave leia idk, idgive as much of a fuck about an ugly fictional character as i do a hot one, they arent real, so its not like i can hold them to the same standard as a real person in which that wouldn't apply Nobody has trouble with attractive characters, people care about suspension of disbelief in a story. Akame ga kill is an example of an anime that cannot hold the suspension of disbelief even if it tried, characters die left and right, random ecchi moments galore, etc. I think that suspension of disbelief differs from person to person. Everyone has different tolerance levels for that sort of thing, and no. A show doesn't need to keep it to hold a user's attention. LOTS of things in the move Guardians of the Galaxy should throw off people's sense of disbelief but they shouldn't pull you out of the movie. The ecchi moments in Akame Ga Kill never threw me off. The characters dying threw me for a loop, but they weren't completely random. They all made sense. I don't think anything about that show brought me out of it. Moments that bring you out of a show are just jarring moments in my opinion. For instance, you're watching No. 6 because it has an interesting setting and world development and then suddenly, cross-dressing gay love. That threw me off. Not even suspension of disbelief. The show could do whatever it wanted and I'd believe it because the world is different from our own. It was just not what I was expecting. I think if you're being pulled out of shows because of ecchi you're just being prude or not enjoying yourself. If you're being prude, then lighten up. Like stop taking yourself so seriously. Shows can be fun and have serious undertones at the same time. If you're not enjoying yourself drop it. I dropped Yuri Kuma Arashi because I realized I wasn't enjoying myself. I've never regretted it. |
deadoptimist said: Mamster-P said: they arent real, so its not like i can hold them to the same standard as a real person in which that wouldn't apply I don't get this argument at all. A story creates a fictional world, and a viewer gets immersed into it. For that world characters are supposed to be real. That's why breaking the 4th wall, the suspension of disbelief, the loss of immersion, the uncanny valley exist, that's how stories work. If it is all obviously "unreal" from the start, it's useless. Well, in most cases, unless art challenges its conventions or something. And unnecessary fanservice strains your suspension of disbelief. When you see, for example, a group of heroes climbing a snowy mountain to a shrine - aren't you supposed to feel the hardship of their feat, to root for them and worry they may not make it? Otherwise - why to create this, why to watch? And when one of them is a half-naked elven girl, who moans and falls, showing her panties form under the mini-skirt all the time, it breaks this immersion, cause why is she dressed like this in the cold weather? Why should I watch her panties insted of following the heroes' gazes, directed at the towering peak? it's obvious she is shown not for the sake of the story. It breaks the 4-th wall too in a way - you see something that's directed at you in a different way, and doesn't work like the rest of the show. well for me, its always in my mind that any form of fiction im watching isn't real, thats just how i think. as much as our own reality sucks, i can never get away from the fact that animation/manga is an art form like, im not a really a "i can't believe the character did that" person, cause i know that it was the creators choice and not really the characters, i mean, i DO, i still have the "wow that was fucked up" moments, but just not to the same degree many of you seem to like, horror movies for example don't scare me nearly as much as they do other many people. i even usually watch horror movies before i go to sleep. anything created by CGI wont scare me, only things like evil dolls/puppets or a few other things that can be animated without it, cause i know that "theyre using something that exists" i DO connect with fictional characters, but only to a limited degree. its big enough though that if i do watch an anime thats meant to have a good story, i'll still get sad if a character i really like dies or something like that. and my favorite character in an anime tends to change alot due to their personalities heres the biggest thing about me...... im a HIGHLY visual person, and a HUGE artist, i LOVE to look at things and i draw all the time. i have tons of merchandise. i LOVE cute/sexy/bad ass things with bright colors the most so anime for me is more about the visual elements than anything else, but i prefer to watch characters do things in a setting, so i choose to watch series/ovas/movies/etc. now obviously if an anime has a great story, i'll acknowledge and feel it, but its just not a 'requirement' for me oh, and as an artist, i won't watch an anime with an artstyle that i don't like, although there are VERY FEW, i just can't, its torture on my eyes this is also part of the reason i don't watch hentai anime, yet i have pics. generally the budget is so low that the animation looks horrible or just not good enough to fap to, and i prefer your average anime series's animation level. obviously the smoother the animation, the better. big boobs that don't jiggle are like, wtf? and if a scene arouses me, i can fap to it, and idc who the girl is. im not bothered by unrealistic physics, like boobs that move like jello, on a real woman that'd be like, wtf? but knowing its fiction, i still find it just as hot, so yea the fact that the creators are putting in a character that isn't real yet is extremely cute or arousing, is huge for a mostly visual watcher like myself oh and anime art is pretty much the only fictional artstyle that i really like, i'd rather watch a mostly guy anime than a mostly girl american cartoon. i don't really find any other artstyle attractive, and if i wanted a realistic look, well, theres real people lol so because of all this, im able to watch pretty much any genre and not really care whats going on as long as i love the visual elements, and there are just none that i love more than cute or sexy. so yea, im more of a, "wow that looks really good, look what these creators took the time to design", than i am a "let me forget about reality and get lost in a fictional story" watcher. so for those who don't understand how you can see an ecchi scene and not lose a tense moment or w/e. well im already mostly immersed into the visuals, so for me, its not a really a "distraction" from whats going on in the show. its more of a "holy shit that was hot af, i may fap to it later" so i guess it makes sense that if you're more immersed in "why things are happening" i can see why a shot thats mainly just meant to be looked at would be considered distracting if story was priority, i'd just read something with very few or no pictures, like a light novel or chapter book, but again, its not and i HATE reading, looking at just words is also torture on my eyes now getting back to the suspension of disbelief thing. another factor could be how much i WISH certain fictional elements/characters were real and knowing theyre not that keeps from ever leaving reality. anything i feel for a character is nothing more than a fantasy. so as much as i always want to, i just can't, i pay too much attention to what goes on in the world :( for those who bothered to read all this........... am i alone here? @__@ |
EcchiGodMamsterJan 28, 2016 6:31 PM
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15poundfish said: If you are watching an ecchi show, you already know its coming. People in general don't like ecchi in shows that are not tagged as ecchi. Can you imagine if you were watching star wars where the next shot after destroying the death star was soft core porn fan service with princess Leia and Luke Skywalker? Most people would be disgusted and rightfully so. Uhm... princess Leia's costume that time she was captured by Jabba the hutt is quite infamous. Most critics agree that it's mostly for fanservice, even if it's possible to explain why a giant sentient slug would want half-naked humanoids around. A number of other serious western shows have fanservice too. deadoptimist said: Mamster-P said: they arent real, so its not like i can hold them to the same standard as a real person in which that wouldn't apply I don't get this argument at all. A story creates a fictional world, and a viewer gets immersed into it. For that world characters are supposed to be real. That's why breaking the 4th wall, the suspension of disbelief, the loss of immersion, the uncanny valley exist, that's how stories work. If it is all obviously "unreal" from the start, it's useless. Well, in most cases, unless art challenges its conventions or something. And unnecessary fanservice strains your suspension of disbelief. When you see, for example, a group of heroes climbing a snowy mountain to a shrine - aren't you supposed to feel the hardship of their feat, to root for them and worry they may not make it? Otherwise - why to create this, why to watch? And when one of them is a half-naked elven girl, who moans and falls, showing her panties form under the mini-skirt all the time, it breaks this immersion, cause why is she dressed like this in the cold weather? Why should I watch her panties insted of following the heroes' gazes, directed at the towering peak? it's obvious she is shown not for the sake of the story. It breaks the 4-th wall too in a way - you see something that's directed at you in a different way, and doesn't work like the rest of the show. 1) Well, TTGL breaks the immersion hard, yet it remains enjoyable. 2) If a group of heroes are climbing a snowy mountain, and one of them is a half-naked fanservicey elven girl (and she isn't supposed to be some kind of ice elemental or immaterial spirit), I can immediately tell that the show doesn't mean me to take it too seriously, and is probably some kind of comedy. In a serious show, she would've looked great in an outfit that looks like it is meant to be a winter outfit, but wouldn't work in real life. In a really serious show, nobody would put shrines in inaccessible spots in the first place. 15poundfish said: Mamster-P said: are yall really watching these shows trying to take them seriously? just cause a show has death or w/e doesn't mean the show is supposed to be taken seriously The very basic rule of a show is to hold the viewers suspension of disbelief, random ecchi moments ruin it when the viewer is not expected it. Example would be a girl that is so anxious of people seeing her underwear under her skirt all of the time. why not wear shorts? This is common trope in many anime that breaks suspension of disbelief over and over again. Notice how this trope seems to be absent in kids shows because ecchi fan service is rare if not non existent in most of them. 1) It's exhibitionism. The same logic that makes girls in more hentai works run through the streets at night naked and hope nobody sees them. Or not wear any panties in the first place and be afraid to be seen. (It's fun, you should try it) [/devil] 2) Some girls are more afraid of being seen wearing shorts (because that would mark them as being unfeminine). @Mamster-P This time, I'm afraid I can't support you this time. I just have heavy-duty belief suspenders for watching crazies shows. Only stuff like TTGL can overcome them. |
| also, idk if some of yall read what i wrote earlier but, there's actually no such thing as "an ecchi show" again, in japan ecchi and hentai aren't words used for genres for anime.... muscles, tits and ass just come natural in anime for them we are the ones that started using the words incorrectly, and the only label we use correctly is harem, which they refer to as "haremu" hentai just means perverted, and what we call hentai, over here, they call 18+ e'tchi = pronunciation of H... which is obviously from hentai and slang for "sex" because we westerners have a more cringe worthy approach to sexual content, we look at these sexual scenes through our own lens in stead of their lens for them, sexual content is nothing, while for us (because were pussies about our own bodies and sexual desires) we think WHOA what are they trying to do to the show? and sexual content in japan is only becoming more and more mainstream, so naturally its going to appear more in their anime, its not just cause "it makes more money" its also cause people are becoming more open about it we over here need to realize that anime is not targeting a culture that has a negative look on sexual content i keep saying.... and ill keep saying it.... if we had this same view point.... we wouldn't have nearly as many people complaining so if you don't like "seeing a lot of ecchi in a show not labeled an ecchi" blame the people on MAL, cause its not the Japanese labeling the anime, its us |
EcchiGodMamsterJan 29, 2016 11:48 AM
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