NY Times Manga Best Seller List for Jan 10 - 16

Simplo said:


I do not agree. Ghoul is just a typical shounen with some gore to appeal to edgy teens and to pretend to be mature. OPM has basically everything every other shounen has. Just because its a parody doesn't make it any different.

BakugoMan said:


It's so sad TG has a false reputation of being something akin to, say, Akame ga Kill or something. If you really did read it in detail you'd know the action is hardly it's main ingredient; or selling point, even.

I don't fully blame you, though. It's the trash anime (that deliberately turned it into a shounen-esque series) and a small (but noticeable and more vocal) cancerous part of their fandom who love Ghoul for the wrong reasons.

Edit: As for OPM, it's really difficult to prove that it's either genre, really. Like you said, it's a parody of typical shounen, because it has shounen elements, but it's a parody of it, but it's a parody of shounen action, but etcetc...

bigivelfhq said:

Shounen isn't a genre!

ixaa said:


You're not wrong. It's a demographic. But let's be real here, most shounen/shoujos/josei/seienen (shounen and shoujos ESPECIALLY) have those tropes that you can point out and immediately realize it's a shounen, like much genres.

Kuma said:
yes, they share common tropes, but it's not that strict. it not really can make them identified as stand alone. the limit on them is really blurry. it's make people generalize things.

people calling tokyo ghoul shounen is laughable when in reality it is seinen. it also source of hxh is seinen jokes. seriously, people need to stop strict shounen as "this" and seinen as "that". shoujo and josei border even more blurry. it make you look like ignorance people who not even know what you are talking about.

keragamming said:


You both make good points. But here's how I look at it, basically you will find more mature theme series in the seinen manga than the shounen manga. Why? Because shounen manga caters to kids to late teens, if I'm correct. So you will find more kid friendly theme series in shounen manga.

Now that doesn't mean all shounen series are all the same in terms of troupes, themes and quality, it just means that's the norm you will expect in most shounen manga. And that's where the grey area comes in for both magazine.

Basically you should not look at it in a black and white view. Watch/read the series then decide for yourself if the series meets your standard, whether its by maturity or whatever. Don't just judge a book by its cover just because the series is tag as shounen [oh this series is for kids and teens, not interested.] or seinen [this series is mature and deep, for young adults like me. Definitely going to check it out] that's just ignorant.

bigivelfhq said:


The problem is that Kodomo, Seinen, Shoujo and Josei also have those tropes. And a lot(majority even) of Shonen series also don't have them. So you really can't point out those tropes.
Not to talk that these so called "Troupes" change with generations, because the target audience tastes change.

Look at Weekly Shounen Jump right now and see how this so called "troupes" mean little:

Comedy
. Kochikame
. Gintama
. Saiki Kusuo no Sainan
. Assassination Classroom
. Isobe Isobe Monogatari
. Samon-kun wa Summoner

Battle
. One Piece
. Bleach
. Toriko
. World Trigger
. Boku no Hero Academia
. Black Clover

Sport
. Haikyuu!!
. Hinomaru Zumou
. Sesuji wo Pin! to
. Mononofu
. Buddy Strike

Cooking
. Shokugeki no Souma

Romantic Comedy
. Nisekoi


Talk to me about these so common troupes all these series have and that make you immediately realize it's a Shounen(Just take a look at Kochikame or at Isobe Isobe Monogatari). Hardly you can point me one, just go look at those series and you will see that these so called troupes don't count for much.
And we are talking of series of 1 magazine. Magazine that has pretty strong identity.

Majority of these so called "troupes" is because people is just looking at series of 1 genre, Battle, and from this Magazine, Jump, that is a magazine with a strong identity. Looking outside of the magazine and this so called troupes become even more useless. Not to even talk about Seinen and other demographics also having a significant amount of works with those same "Troupes", because you know? they aren't Shounen exclusive patents! That is why we get a ton of discussions, useless discussions, about something just being in reality from A demographic instead of the B demographic that it says to be.

ichii_1 said:
The casuals think seinen is a demographic with no ecchi/moe/harem and well written stories XD
tokyo ghoul might as well be a battle shounen, but because it has the seinen mark, it's elevated into godhood.

giathuan2707 said:
Non Non Biyori is in seinen mag
Yotsuba&! is in a shounen mag


To Love Ru/Darkness is in a shounen mag
Monster Musume is in a seinen mag


Isn't it better to categorize them in the appearance of the magazines ? To me, it's easier that way and no useless discussions :D . Off topic ~

Good job seeing My Monster Secret up there , it deserves more recognition . Better romcom nowadays.

bigivelfhq said:


Non Non Biyori obviously takes the Moe aspect to attract what we highly call the "otaku", this guys are majority Young Adults, so it makes sense it being Seinen. Most(or all) Moe Manga are Seinen, just like most(or all) Moe anime air at night at Otaku hour.

Yotsuba is a Slice of Life about the innocence of a kid girl(And no, it isn't Moe). Is a kind of story that can highly attract both young adults and teenagers. So in the end the audience that the author and publishing company decided to attract is the determining aspect. They decided Shonen, so the author and the publisher are in fact making decisions in order to attract teenagers.

To Love Ru is a simple ecchi. Ecchi most of the time is Shounen. In fact the magazine that To Love Ru ran, Weekly Shonen Jump, is the magazine that created the genre(where the genre first appeared).

Monster Musume is also an ecchi, but about hybrid animal girls(type of Gijinka). These is not only one of the fetishes in the "Otaku" community, but if you think parents and adults already have a problem with ecchi appearing in their kids magazines, what do you think they will think about half human, half animal ecchi series in it?
The author and the publisher would need huge balls, to try to put a Gijinka series directed at Teenagers!

Categorizing series for Magazine is a totally different thing than categorizing series for Demographic.
Demographic categorization is smaller and more general, and it take in consideration the target audience. The people in which the work was made in mind.
While the Magazine has a demographic, that is not the only identifying aspect that the magazine has. So by categorizing by magazine you have to understand for what the magazine stands for. So the categorization is way more specific.
While the Demographic normally used go for about 5 categories(Kodomo, Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen, Josei), the Magazine categorization goes for in the minimum to a dozen, and that grouping isn't even wide enough to include most series. So a person to be able to categorize and discuss about each Magazine a series is in, he has to have a big knowledge of many magazines.
Small example of Magazines:
1- Shonen Jump
2- Jump Square
3- Jump Next
4- Saikyou Jump
5- Young Jump
6- Ultra Jump
7- Shonen Magazine
8- Monthly Shonen Magazine
9- Besatsu(Suplementar) Shonen Magazine
10- Young Magazine
11- Morning
12- Evening
13- Shonen Sunday
14- Monthly Shonen Sunday
15- Big Comic Original
16- Big Comic Spirits
17- Corocoro
...

This is an example with dozens of magazines, still Non Non Biory, Yotsubato nor Monster Musume are in any of the categories. Also in there you have magazines of the same demographic, but they are still highly different magazines. Showing that Magazine categorization is different from Demographic categorization.

Note that the relationship between a magazine and a series, is that if a magazine targets to one specific person, the series inside of that magazine also has to target that person. Is the same for genre specific magazines. If a magazine is a sci-fi magazine, then the series inside that magazine also has to be a sci-fi series.

Z4k said:

It isn't.

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