| I don't think I've encountered anyone as stupid as Daisuki-chan on this forum, that's quite an achievement in itself. People that know me know that I don't usually attack people, but the stupidity on display is too much even for me. Daisuke, you took an actual useful and informative thread and utterly ruined it. I'd tell you to just stop already but we know you won't. You're probably satisfied with how things have turned out, trolls like you love the attention. So I'm just going to kindly ask everyone else in the thread to just ignore you and continue conversations without acknowledging your existence. If there's any justice left in the world, the crowd you're preaching to are too bored reading anything you have to say and end up watching the show anyway. Daisuki-chan said: Those arguing the objective superiority of things under the belief that quality is objective are being offensive snobs. You couldn't make this shit up. The next time I enter this thread it will be to debate the merits of the show with someone who hasn't seen it and is on the fence whether to. You know, the actual purpose of this thread. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Excelsior said: Daisuki-chan said: LoGH could've easily aired on TV for its first season, but it didn't. I thought LOGH did air on tv, on the WOWOW channel (Although, when I actually tried looking this up, I couldn't find anything except the words "WOWOW" with some kanji on the LOGH trailer. Someone who knows Japanese could probably translate it, however). it did air on TV, but it was initially released as a direct-to-video VHS. Daisuki-chan said: Also, the trolling was established, but I guess you "forgot" again. It's "convenient" how often you rehash things when convincing you is pointless, since you'll just "forget" in a couple of weeks anyway. .. that's alright, I dont feel like arguing anymore either. |
eyerokJul 12, 2010 5:39 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
Beatnik said: The next time I enter this thread it will be to debate the merits of the show with someone who hasn't seen it and is on the fence whether to. You know, the actual purpose of this thread. So you're saying the only purpose of this thread is to tell people who haven't seen the show what's so great about it, and any opposing ideas are off-topic? Sounds like a load of crap to me. Sure, the topic does ask what's great about it, so giving them your opinion on that is perfectly within your rights, but if that was all that was allowed this thread would be utterly worthless. If I'm deciding whether or not to watch a series, I want to hear both sides, not just the side that says it's great. Also, it's not much of a debate if the other person hasn't even seen the show. What kind of counter-arguments could they possibly bring up? If you really want to debate the show's merits, Daisuki-chan's been giving you the best opposition you could ask for. I don't think "debating the show's merits" is what you really want to do, though; I think you just want to talk about and tell people why this show is so awesome. There's nothing wrong with that, but if it's true you at least need to be honest with yourself and everyone else. |
| Rofl, have youa ctually read anything in this thread besides the posting in your quote? I doubt so, because otherwise the comment doesn't make much sense. Nobody, as far as I can see, and me for sure, are not really only praising LOGH. The point is that Daisukis Postings just restate 2 or 3 things over and over that almost noone disagrees with, not covering most counterarguments, not even making a point besides insulting LOGH fans constantly as the worst fanboy snobs ever. This is no discussion about the good and bad points of LOGH, it's just a bunch of people who really enjoyed a series and who try to justify it because they are forced to by an unreasonable person who (pretends to) like the series, but just happens to call everybody praising it a snobbish fanboy. And then there is the debate about OVA's in the late 80's. Both non-content related. I'd be fucking glad if there would actually be some kind of discussion about "debating the show's merits" going on here. But Daisuki doesn't critizice the show, but only the fans of it. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: Rofl, have youa ctually read anything in this thread besides the posting in your quote? I've read everything. And although it hasn't all been about LoGH itself, it hasn't been without those points either. Also notice how, as far as I can tell, the only people disagreeing with Daisuki-chan and insulting her are pretty big fans of LoGH itself. Given the nature and location of this thread that makes sense, but it also isn't doing anything to really prove her wrong. She calls you snobs, you are the ones who say she's wrong, etc. See where this is going? The arguments used definitely aren't without merit. |
| okay, get back to the topic, and stop talking about how awful Daisuki is or is not. And with topic I mean the topic, the greatness or eventual lack thereof in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, not anything else, if you defy the question of any merit then you have nothing to say on it. The question does not imply objectivity, universality, inherency or anything, it asks merely of greatness, what anyone might mean by greatness is their own matter, and while it is great if they were able to explain what this is, the kind of conversation perpetuated here is about as topical as a conversation on whether electrochemical abiogenesis is true in a zootaxonomy thread, with the added problem of it veering ever closer to just namecalling and drama and trolling. Focus, please? I don't think anyone who wanted to know the answer to our topical question could ever find out by consulting the last ten or so pages. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: Focus, please? I don't think anyone who wanted to know the answer to our topical question could ever find out by consulting the last ten or so pages. word, bro. I shouldn't have answered her challenges. Oh well, doesn't really matter anymore. Redfoxoffire said: Also notice how, as far as I can tell, the only people disagreeing with Daisuki-chan and insulting her are pretty big fans of LoGH itself.. And I also notice how, as far as I can tell, the only two people who support her are code geass and Clannad fans who dont even like lotgh nearly half as much. Please, redfox, stop making things worse than they already are. |
eyerokJul 12, 2010 5:24 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
Daisuki-chan said: Brooky, you're insulting me by genderswapping my name and you know it. But you're probably just another troll, so whatever... But the troll is you, attacking the LOGH fans rather than discussing the thread's topic. On a different note, the "ignore thread" button, when clicked from the post search doesn't hide the thread. Click it once, refresh, and there it is again. |
 |
DeadBonesBrook said: On a different note, the "ignore thread" button, when clicked from the post search doesn't hide the thread. Click it once, refresh, and there it is again. Coz da mal iz broken :< |
Daisuki-chan said: Claiming that LoGH is objectively better than something else is offensive; it puts down others' preferences as wrong or inferior when they aren't. I've seen more of this type of pseudointellectual snobbery randomly appearing in irrelevant places in support of LoGH than for everything else combined Sure is some massive butthurt here. Yes I'm a logh snob. So what? I objectively think it's the greatest anime ever made. so what? Stop getting all worked up over other people's superior tastes. To answer op's question, only if you're a fan of science fiction, history, politics. Otherwise, avoid. |
DocJangarlyJul 13, 2010 8:35 AM
| Hah, I guess it's not that hard to make a story with a gigantic plot device - superpowers. Making logical plot without them requires huge cojones lol :D *That's why i always loved battletech, homeworld etc :3 (and admired mandalorians - making jedi/sith shit brix without the force - woohoo! :D)* Not to mention that in lotgh ANYONE can die. You don't see this often in ANY media. And if person dies - dies for real *collecting light bulbs doesn't help lol* So - no superpowers, no revivals, no deus ex machinas, no reset buttons in lotgh... Just like it is in real life I guess. :P |
| Well, I can only partly agree wit the above post. I also love Code Geass and Death Note, even after watching LOGH. Sure, I downgraded it about 1 point, but I still find it very enjoyable. I knew about the plotholes etc before watching LOGH and I nevertheless really enjoyed the series. Their goal is pretty different I think. CG is flashier, involves supernatural stuff and is mostly made to entertain (while imo LOGH's approach was more about just telling a story about "galactic heroes" and make the viewer think about what happens/is been said on the show) and it DOES succeed in that. Also, I still think it kinda deserves its reputation as "intellectual", because the average anime is still way simpler and CG does what most animes do nowadays, involve stuff that sells, but it still manages to pull off a good story with unexpected twists, even with mediocre characters. Of course there are plotholes, questionable "deaths" etc, but CG is just made to keep you on the edge and wanting to know what happens next. So while watching it I didn't realize/ didn't care about any of those. In LOGH on the other hand the show was obviously taking a different approach from the beginning (see above) and therefore I noticed the (little) flaws sooner. Okay, in the end that paragraph is probably bullshit, I seem to be unable to exactly express my point. I'll just say that you can't really measure both shows at the same scale. That goes even more so for DBZ and LOGH. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: I'll just say that you can't really measure both shows at the same scale. That goes even more so for DBZ and LOGH. +1 It's like comparing Lady Gaga and Iron Maiden... How could I even put them in one sentence!? O_O Lotgh is a class of it's own imo :3 |
Beatnik said: I don't think I've encountered anyone as stupid as Daisuki-chan on this forum... Daisuke... At least I don't rely on only insults to try to make my points. Besides, I did help someone, and this thread had plenty of LoGH fans trolling it before I touched it, even according to a LoGH fan. Daisuki-chan said: Those arguing the objective superiority of things under the belief that quality is objective are being offensive snobs. You couldn't make this shit up. You haven't proved anything. Your faith is meaningless inside of a rational system. You're free to have it, but it's no better than any other faith-based bigotry. Excelsior said: I thought LOGH did air on tv, on the WOWOW channel (Although, when I actually tried looking this up, I couldn't find anything except the words "WOWOW" with some kanji on the LOGH trailer. Someone who knows Japanese could probably translate it, however). It didn't air on TV originally, why is why it's an OVA. I wasn't speaking of other airings. eyerok said: that's alright, I dont feel like arguing anymore either. Okay. I'm trying to ease out of this discussion without allowing stupid insults to be the only conclusion allowed about me. I'm not trolling or fangirling. People have different views, and I hardly don't admit having had issues with even my favorites, although that doesn't mean that I'll accede to demands that I view anything as trash (or amazing). Anyway, anyone who just stereotypes me as a member of some negatively viewed group is just being biased to make themselves feel better. Higashi_no_Kaze said: ...it's just a bunch of people who really enjoyed a series and who try to justify it because they are forced to by an unreasonable person who (pretends to) like the series, but just happens to call everybody praising it a snobbish fanboy. You're just calling me a troll. I can say exactly what I liked in LoGH, and just because I avoid repeating the beaten-to-death positives (although I did summarize them in my pseudoreview, since I don't have a reason to hate LoGH itself or any of its nonoffensive fans) doesn't mean that the negatives I mentioned crushed it for me. Besides, I both nominated and voted to induct Yang Wen-li (who needs more votes...) in my own club. I'm sure that implies that I really don't like LoGH...somehow...if you want it to. DeadBonesBrook said: But the troll is you, attacking the LOGH fans rather than discussing the thread's topic. On a different note, the "ignore thread" button, when clicked from the post search doesn't hide the thread. Click it once, refresh, and there it is again. No, I'm not trolling, and I only mean to insult the subset that openly (instead keeping one's faiths to oneself is just fine to me) demands that LoGH is objectively superior. This is a declaration that my tastes and thus myself (along with most others) are objectively wrong and/or inferior. And yet there is no rational basis for this belief. It's just faith-based bigotry, so I see no problem in labeling it snobbery, as it fits Wikipedia's definition of such. As for on-topic-ness, it goes to the truth of the arguments that are often made about LoGH's subjectively (but claimed to be objectively) high level of quality, and you deciding to only bother me about this when others bring such trash in here and in fact all over the place while not proving themselves is just you applying a double standard to me because you don't like what I say. MAL has multiple servers, so you'll have to CTRL-F5 until things work for you. If it still doesn't after several times then there might be a problem, or you might just be temporarily unlucky. SantaBla said: Sure is some massive butthurt here. Yes I'm a logh snob. So what? I objectively think it's the greatest anime ever made. so what? Stop getting all worked up over other people's superior tastes. To answer op's question, only if you're a fan of science fiction, history, politics. Otherwise, avoid. You don't objectively think that. At "best" you use faith-based thinking to place yourself above others for arbitrary and thus subjective reasons. If that hurts you then it's only because you don't like the truth. I doubt you can prove the nonarbitrariness of your tastes and standards. Everyone has been free to prove otherwise, but at best I get bogus "common sense" arguments, which of course mean nothing "doubly much" in this case, since most people (note that people doesn't only include people drawn to watching LoGH) aren't that into LoGH. roriconfan said: Nice said. Why are you people bashing this series? Its pacing and character development beats most of everything. I think newer fans can't like something without idiotic characters or moeblob and its sad. There's a difference between a low number of flaws and a high number of positives. Most people prefer the latter, and it's not for anyone to decide what must be negative and what must be positive. "[Y]ou people" comes off being as related to "newer fans", but this makes little sense. Berserk and Kaiji are not idiotic or moe series to most people. Well, you can say that they were unrelated despite what is apparent, but whatever. You also admit to marking things as complete (which you always seem to permanent (complete-only) vote on, too) on AniDB without having actually completed them, so please forgive me if I preemptively doubt you if you were to change things in somewhat unlikely ways to benefit yourself. Maybe you're not even the roriconfan on AniDB, but in that case you're just plagiarizing his reviews. You could also delete many posts in your guestbook, but I'm saving them all here right now just in case. Basically, it's not wrong or strange to distrust you, period, so I'm not just being offensive by taking measures to explain myself. roriconfan said: ^ Nice said. Why is it so hard to understand that the less BS a series has in the way it solves a problem, the better it is in general? Think of death in Dragonball Z. Does it have any importance? Yes, an excuse to become stronger. Lolwut? How about the way someone defeats another? All of a sudden his power level goes up with lots of screaming. Yeah, lovely tactics there. These simple examples aplly 99.99% to all anime but are almost extinct in Logh. You die? You stay dead. You want to win? You use your brain. Can you be more subjective? Higashi_no_Kaze said: ...(while imo LOGH's approach was more about just telling a story about "galactic heroes" and make the viewer think about what happens/is been said on the show)... I haven't denied this (and of course my pseudoreview covered this as a potential reason to try LoGH), but it's not the case that one has to be dumb to not gain anything from all of the things that LoGH covers, which can be considered to be basic. In the end an introductory textbook needs more than just information to pass as a good anime to people who already had gained its knowledge (or even more knowledge) on their own. Beyond that, such a style doesn't appeal much to most people, which is not right, wrong, good, or bad, just as LoGH's level of quality is neither positive nor negative outside of arbitrarily personally held tastes and standards. People who disagree with that and paint others as wrong, inferior, dumb, etc. are snobs. And it's just the case that I've come across more LoGH snobs than all other snobs combined. I won't deny that everything has its fanboys, and surely more popular things have more, but they always are broadly denounced as purely biased, since they don't pretend to make any rational arguments. The type of arguments I hate are the ones that are just as biased, but are considered acceptable by too many. I dislike the acceptance of the use of pseudointellectualism to "justify" bigotry, and those who express such things are the ones I refer to as snobs. roriconfan said: If we are to compare each series only to its own genres, then Logh should only be compared with other Space Operas... And gets a 10 for being the best in the field. How's that for an excuse to be on top? The "best" remains subjective, and splitting things by genre only makes LoGH's current ranking appear less "objective" than it already does, as space opera anime are not what most people look for when they want a random "good" anime. Besides, to me Terra e... (2007) and Seikai no Monshou were much better. Of course I won't deny that among space opera LoGH and Seikai no Monshou would likely collectively have the top two ranks if a random sample of general anime fans watched them (with LoGH likely taking first if the random sample was changed to space opera anime fans), but this doesn't mean anything overall, since space opera anime are generally niche (unless they mix in other things that anime fans want more, like Vandread did). Well, that's as objective (in the sense of being unbiased and not in terms of proving any somehow true level of quality) as it gets. |
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| welp I did give this a chance, but this will never get back on topic. Locked. |
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