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| damn i miss ein, it just doesn't feel the same without her. should be interesting how this cal ordeal plays out. |
| this series is getting exciting after every episode xD cool~ |
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| I'm still not totally used to Reiji's new look :/ It'll take some time to get used to. But man. He's really changed over time. He's definitely not like he was back then. |
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| Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you watching that makes you say that this is the best show of the season because Bleach is about to go into fillers? You don't have anything on your anime list, so I have to wonder. Couple that last statement with a few others, and (I hate saying this because it makes me sound like a douche nerd) it feels like you haven't really seen many shows of merit. I'm glad that you like the show, and decided to come onto MAL (because you are by far nowhere near the levels of ridiculous I've seen posted), but it's kind of like hearing someone say that Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles is the best show on television right now. |
| Unlike a lot of people, I don't usually watch series by keeping up with the current season. I just look at what seems interesting, new or old, and go with it. Phantom and FMA: Brotherhood are the only series I'm keeping up with that began this season - Phantom on the prodding of a friend and FMA:B because I really enjoyed the 2003 FMA. The others on my Currently Watching list have either already finished their run or began before this season and are simply very long (e.g. Gintama). As a result, I can't really say if Phantom is the best of this season. I can only compare it to whatever else I've seen. Even if Phantom is the best of this season, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's stellar in comparison to some past anime series. I haven't exactly seen as much anime as some others around MAL, but I've definitely seen character types and plots from Phantom used before. I know that it's impossible to be completely original these days, but like I said before, it's more about how you go about it. Phantom has yet to have anything I'll remember it for, save for the time Zwei killed that kid way back in episode 5. But, really, that's about it. I watched episodes 12 and 13 just yesterday and I couldn't tell you much about them except for the most basic and important points. (And actually, I got annoyed with Bleach a while ago and dropped it XD I'm still reading the manga, though I'm also considering dropping it, too.) |
| Ok. If that's all you've seen this season, then yeah, Phantom probably is the best. But Guin Saga, Eden of the East, Fullmetal Alchemist, Tears to Tiara and (depending on your taste) Hayate no Gotoku, Ristorante Paradiso, are just as good or better. Not to mention Kemono no Souja Erin, a holdover from winter. I feel badly that someone recommened K-On and Asura Cryin' to you. |
| tears to tiara as good as phantom... I'd agree on the other parts (well i do enjoy asura cryin' to a degree), but this one just makes me sad for phantom. |
| Personally I think it's better than Phantom. It has a lead character I like, it's animated beautifully, and it's a harem that I don't hate (that alone makes it better). |
| I personally do not think that Tears to Tiara is better than Phantom at all. While it has an interesting story, the fact that every girl just gets on her knees for the main character doesn't exactly appeal to me. Phantom just feels more serious and mature than TtT, and that vibe that phantom gives off as show makes it more enjoyable than shows such as TtT.. |
| Believe me, it doesn't appeal to me at all either, but I get the same exploitational vibes from Phantom though. That bullet removal scene was far more annoying than anything I've seen in TtT. At least in TtT, Arawn is totally dismissive of all the girls (which is the reason why I can stand the harem-ness of the show). Couple that with the fact that they don't sit on characters and plot like they do in Phantom, nor do they go in ridiculous directions, and that's just where my favor goes. I would say that the tone in the beginning was very appealing, but that evaporated soon after Reiji killed the kid. |
Aeterna said: 1. They're in America, not Japan. Reiji is technically Japanese, but since he's lost all his past memories, he'd essentially be American in terms of cultural norms and such. Cal also seems American. I'll conceede that. Although I will point out Reiji has his memories back now, he got them back after recieving his passport. 4. Cal is 14? I was actually expecting a couple years older, but regardless, 14 is still very young. I dunno. I pegged Ein at about 17, and Cal seems a few years younger. |
| Ok, they're losing it. This show was great, and I mean it, really great up to the previous episode. Even previous episode had its serious tone, and now, with introducing this little kiddy, it's going to stop being serious and good and turn into unserious sh*t that's seen in every other anime out there. I see many people here lik Cal, well, I kinda hate her. I started finding little cute girls annoying. They tend to ruin the shows by acting all innocent, and turning everything into f*ing joke. Killing people ain't no joke, this show showed that pretty nicely so far. Whatever... |
| Rofl, Loli-Assasin, anyway to be honest didn't expected this kind of plotwist, doens't make it more interesting neither less. Sure I wanna know whats going to happen next, kinda expected that Ein/Elen will come back and there will be some dramatic scene between both of them. I hope this doesn't turn out in a double ending/suicide; I can fucking see it. Waiting next episode. Surely Phantom is growing on me. |
noteDhero said: Believe me, it doesn't appeal to me at all either, but I get the same exploitational vibes from Phantom though. That bullet removal scene was far more annoying than anything I've seen in TtT. At least in TtT, Arawn is totally dismissive of all the girls (which is the reason why I can stand the harem-ness of the show). Couple that with the fact that they don't sit on characters and plot like they do in Phantom, nor do they go in ridiculous directions, and that's just where my favor goes. I would say that the tone in the beginning was very appealing, but that evaporated soon after Reiji killed the kid. I know the relationship between Ein and zwei wasn't portrayed too well in this show, but it still doesn't deserve to be called worse than a show where it basically starts off with the main character getting a new girl/wife every other episode. This series does have some extremely ridiculous aspects to it (ein shot by zwei scene after he stalks scyth master for an eternity, i'm looking at you), but tears is just way worse in that regard. I thought the bullet scene was nicely done as well. It did hint at sexual undertones, but nothing more. I don't like harem though. Arawn being dismissive is just typical harem where everyone and their step sister falls for the main character even though he treats them indifferently, but it is ok because he secretly cares and is just playing the tough guy! |
noteDhero said: Ok. If that's all you've seen this season, then yeah, Phantom probably is the best. But Guin Saga, Eden of the East, Fullmetal Alchemist, Tears to Tiara and (depending on your taste) Hayate no Gotoku, Ristorante Paradiso, are just as good or better. Not to mention Kemono no Souja Erin, a holdover from winter. For the most part, I respectfully disagree. It's really a matter of taste, but between Guin Saga, Ristorante Paradiso, FMA, Basquash, K-ON, 07-Ghost, and a few others from this season, I can honestly say that Phantom has, in my opinion, delivered by far the most. I would even put it on par with Eden (and Chi's Sweet Home, but that's very difficult to compare). Also, noteDhero said: I would say that the tone in the beginning was very appealing, but that evaporated soon after Reiji killed the kid. I sincerely disagree with this, too. Perhaps it isn't "appealing" anymore, but I felt that it was a critical moment in defining the show, and it really portrayed the darkest side of the drama in an unforgiving light. Unless you mean afterward, how it began to turn lighter and less intense, to which I would say that the show's mood seems to mimic the experience of Reiji/Zwei, clumsy when he's weak, dark when he takes on his Phantom persona, hopeful when he's optimistic, and calculated/arrogant with his recent ego boost. In each episode, you experience who Reiji is at the time. This isn't meant as a giant "you're wrong," by the way, and I agree that the series is not everyone's ideal. I'm just defending the show as someone who has seen and thought enough about it to make an educated judgment. |
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| When I say better or worse, I simply mean in execution, and not so much in content or opinion, since content wise, Phantom is a definite step up from TtT, and opinion-wise...well, there's no point arguing opinion. There is an overall polish and cleanliness in the way the story is told in TtT where in Phantom there is general randomness approaching some conclusion. Maybe that's the because of the nature of the shows' plots, but still, I feel like this show has made bad mistakes in presentation where TtT has not. @Mr Utopia I definitely wouldn't put it on par with EoE, since like I said, the show lacks focus that is more present in the other shows that I named. By appealing, I meant that the adult nature of the show flew out of the window after he shot the kid. Then it got into an adolescent whining about feelings that hadn't previously existed in characters, and a generally less sophisticated way in story telling, especially with Claudia's set up of Scythe. The show is at it's best when Reiji is struggling within himself. The mood has been totally clumsy since that murder. I would never have used hopeful or arrogant to describe the atmosphere of any point in this show. The only thing that the show has solidly conveyed is desperation, which has been considerably absent for a while now. I feel as though, like Reiji, the show is in an identity crisis. |
Aeterna said: Did anyone else get the feeling that Cal staying so readily at Reiji's place (AND taking a shower within the first five minutes of stepping in there...and forgetting a towel...) was creepy and disturbing? Even the way she was dressed was disturbing, what with the off-the-shoulder shirts and whatnot. It wasn't cute at all. It's like every child molester's dream, and I wasn't fond of that kind of atmosphere. Cal really needs to get a clue. She's just fortunate that Reiji isn't out to get her or anything. Have you ever thought that maybe todays media made us think sick thoughts of every thing. She went with him because his the only guy she has in the world. There she was crying in a dark alley and there she meets someone that has a connection with her since he also seemed to care about the same person and he wants to avenge her. So he wants the same thing as her. It's the only person sh has some connection to, in the whole world. In her place i would have gone with him also even if i knew that there was a possibility he would be an asshole. Now about the bath. Really she is suppose to stay with him. From the moment she is not just a visitor but someone who stays there is not strange at all to take a bath. As about the shirt well young girls usually wear something comfortable like that when they are in doors just to be comfortable. She probably did the same when she was living with that hooker. Now why wasn't she crazy about the fact that Reiji is a man and he might be a child molester? Well the answer it's quite simple because she didn't had overprotective parents telling her to keep miles away from every male in existence and she probably wasn't keeping track on the TV news were according to them half the male population rapes little girls. It's like the terrorist thing. 15 years ago if you saw a weird guy with a big coat in the corner of the bus you would probably think his a flasher or someone that sells stolen watches. Now you would think he has a bomb and will blow up the bus. It's not like they weren't any terrorist 15 years ago. Also the fact that you knew that you were watching an anime with a loli was affecting your thoughts. Anyway this episode wasn't that great and Zwei managed to put himself in an awkward position. What is he gone a do with the money and the revenge that loli wants? |
MonadJun 30, 2009 6:41 AM
| With all due respect, noteDhero, could you please be less nebulous and more concrete when you criticize shows? It's okay when a reader wonders "what the heck is he referring to?" on reading opinions, but with you it's happening a dime a dozen. noteDhero said: There is an overall polish and cleanliness in the way the story is told in TtT where in Phantom there is general randomness approaching some conclusion. Maybe that's the because of the nature of the shows' plots, but still, I feel like this show has made bad mistakes in presentation where TtT has not. Makes no sense to me. So far, there has been no "general randomness" in the show whatsoever. Pretty much everything that happened so far as been properly motivated and explained. What are you talking about? By appealing, I meant that the adult nature of the show flew out of the window after he shot the kid. On the contrary. The fact that Phantom went there sets it apart from most other anime shows. What is this "adult nature" you're talking about? Then it got into an adolescent whining about feelings that hadn't previously existed in characters, and a generally less sophisticated way in story telling, especially with Claudia's set up of Scythe. What "adolescent whining about feelings" are you talking about? Are you sure you're watching the same show we have? What was wrong with the "less sophisticated way in storytelling"? In fact, it was so sophisticated that some viewer needed it interpreted and spelled out. The show is at it's best when Reiji is struggling within himself. Interesting quote after your strange criticism about the "adolescent whining about feelings". But somehow very inconsistent. The mood has been totally clumsy since that murder. I would never have used hopeful or arrogant to describe the atmosphere of any point in this show. What is a "clumsy" mood? And guess what: "Hopeful" is indeed NOT what the show is about. Very intentionally so. The only thing that the show has solidly conveyed is desperation, which has been considerably absent for a while now. Strange comment. Up to 11 it was all about desperation. And after that, we had a significant break. I feel as though, like Reiji, the show is in an identity crisis. I feel as though your criticism was directed at a different anime, not Phantom. Are you sure you're watching the same show? Please less nebulous innuendos and more concrete examples to underline the points you're trying to make. |
| I don't think you read any of the previous comments by other users, Mentar. Otherwise, a lot of what you call nebulous is clearly apart of a discussion with Faltorx, Mr_utopia, etc. But I'll go through each and clarify. General randomness/lack of polish and cleanliness in narrative: I would cite the sequence of Ein and Zwei killing the California mob bosses as randomness. There was a lack of clarity in who was being killed by whom and what their relation was to Inferno. Next would be the multiple instances of characters acting out of character, like Ein suddenly having feelings in that bathroom scene a while back, Reiji stalking Scythe, and Reiji's current character now. I'll also point to Reiji naming Ein Elen, Reji being alive after being riddled with bullets, and Cal's introduction as a seemingly major character as a whole when Claudia gets maybe 2 minutes of characterization during a totally misplaced recap episode. None of these things are new. I've always said something in discussions when I felt something was out of place or nonsensical. Yes, the show went there, but rather than press forward with that tone, we switch to the adolescent whining of Ein in the bathroom, and not on Reiji really dealing with the aftermath of what he had just done. That was then followed with the poorly set up expousal of Scythe from Inferno. Just because something is hard to understand doesn't meant that it is sophisticated. It can also mean that it is badly directed and/or set up. That's what I feel like the problem was in this instance. To me adult nature is dealing with the consequences of actions (especially if those actions are illegal), and not reveling in gratuitous viloence. I don't think it's inconsistent. There is a difference between someone like Reiji who was opposed to his circumstances struggling with the consequences of his actions, and Ein, the one forcing him into said action with no remorse whatsoever, suddenly talking about her feelings in a way that is supposed to come off as empathetic for the viewer instead of hypocritical as it truly was. Mood was my incorrect choice of word. Clumsy better describes the way the show has been handled and the nature of how the tone has shifted since the murder. I never said "hopeful" was what the show was about. I was disagreeing with a comment by another poster. You are in agreement with me, there Mentar. How is it strange? Maybe 3 episodes isn't a while to you, but I think it is. "Considerably absent," "significant break," I think that's some of the same language. Yes. I am watching the same show as you. We clearly feel differently about the way the show has progressed and unfurled. I don't think I was being nebulous since a lot of what I've said has been a restatement of previous posts. |
noteDhero said: I don't think you read any of the previous comments by other users, Mentar. Otherwise, a lot of what you call nebulous is clearly apart of a discussion with Faltorx, Mr_utopia, etc. But I'll go through each and clarify. Thanks for doing so, I'll try to answer in kind. Just like most of the things I'm gonna explain already HAVE been explained in the various episode threads before. General randomness/lack of polish and cleanliness in narrative: I would cite the sequence of Ein and Zwei killing the California mob bosses as randomness. There was a lack of clarity in who was being killed by whom and what their relation was to Inferno. Next would be the multiple instances of characters acting out of character, like Ein suddenly having feelings in that bathroom scene a while back, Reiji stalking Scythe, and Reiji's current character now. I'll also point to Reiji naming Ein Elen, Reji being alive after being riddled with bullets, and Cal's introduction as a seemingly major character as a whole when Claudia gets maybe 2 minutes of characterization during a totally misplaced recap episode. None of these things are new. I've always said something in discussions when I felt something was out of place or nonsensical. Fine, let's go through them. The California Bosses part was anime-original, so I didn't have any advantage over you. It dawned on me when Ein passed on the pistol used for shooting the first guy on to the Inferno stooge who used it to frame a hit. Who the bosses were is absolutely irrelevant for the story, all we needed to know was that Inferno framed a gang war which never existed to get rid of the top level, to activate the Inferno-friendly second level. You are wondering why Ein was getting desperate in the bathroom? Her whole life revolved around serving SM, and she was cut off, and is now persecuted by Inferno. Nothing unusual about her reaction. Reiji "stalking" Scythe? I assume the harbor scene - that was Beetrained, but fundamentally sound. Reiji was snapping and trying to kill SM. Ein naming Elen? What's unusual here? He's trying to shake Ein out of her "cut off dependent person" stupor, to get her to accept a new goal, and to become independent from SM. Claudia had over 11 eps of introduction before Cal even hit the scene. And sorry, based on what we've seen, we know MUCH more about her than about Cal. "Poorly set up expousal of Scythe"? I nearly choked on my coffee when I read that. The expousal of Scythe was one of the most brilliant and elaborate intrigues I've ever seen in an anime. We were able to follow every detail of it - Claudia's cunning in tickling SM's ego to draw him in. Her fiendish combo plan of getting the Godoh Group to owe her one, and framing SM/Ein in the process. Her trick to command Reiji to protect her to set up an alibi for him, and to return his passport to him in an attempt to cut his loyalties to SM. And her timely fingering SM _before_ the attack to McGuire and Wisemel. When Claudio stepped out on the balcony when everything was concluded was one of the highlights of the show to me. Her scheme had been successful, Claudia triumphed. "Poorly set up"?? Are you serious?!?! Now, please ask yourself: Was any of what I just listed complicated? What you do need in this show is that you need to stay awake and use your brain a bit. The show does NOT break everything down to the terrible child complexity level which is plaguing most anime nowadays. You need to put the pieces together, and I could even accept that some of the details might be lost until post-episode discussion... but the show has been inherently logical and sound. I rather smell the old "I don't like the where the story is going, I want it to take a different route" complaint. Your problem isn't that the show is illogical, your problem is that you don't accept the story as it's being told. But that's not really the fault of the anime... |
| I'm going to disagree that who they were was irrelevant to the story. This is a crucial point for Inferno, Claudia, SM and especially Ein and Zwei who are charged with this impossibly timed mission to execute. Failure meant the whole thing blows up in their faces. Seeing as how they went through the "chore" of letting us know who Zwei's first kill was, and marking Tony's (I think that was his name) family before we as viewers knew they had to be killed, it was out of character for the show to not distinguish who was being killed. I only knew that it was an elaborate set up after the cop was explaining everything to Tony at the end. It wasn't a matter of me using my brain a bit since I was paying attention. The direction was good enough that I saw everything that went on clearly, but the set up for it (which included saying everything but who was being killed) was lacking. The moment that I am talking about is in episode 5, long before Claudia sets the trap to catch Scythe Master. Reiji leaves to go with Claudia, and all of a sudden, Ein has this inappropriate moment of sadness or hesitation regarding what she has done. I found it totally false since an episode or two before, she was absolutely fine with being lubed down by SM. Maybe it wasn't in the bathroom, and I confused you on what I was talking about. That's my mistake if it's so. For me, what was unusual was the flippancy with which Reiji named Ein after the show very clearly hammering in the importance of a name to someone's persona. It wasn't a big thing, but it was yet another instance of the show undermining some of it's bigger themes. Claudia was on the show for 11 episodes, and not once did we know anything about her background or motivations until those few minutes in the recap. If you don't see how there is a ridiculous disparity between the way that she and Cal are presented (Cal getting a whole 2 episodes, and a monologue about her parent's and the dead hooker) as a means of introducing the characters, then I'm not sure what else to add. I think it was poorly set up for this reason: Lizzie never seemed to question why she was shooting at Ein and why Zwei had nothing to do with any of this, yet, blindly accepting that SM would just ditch Reiji all together. Maybe I'm harping on this issue, and overestimating Lizzie, but she still doesn't really seem to understand (or care to understand) what went on that night. I don't think I ever said anything was complicated. What I said is that there is a lack of cleanliness in the manner that the story is told that leads me to question often why something is going on onscreen. Especially because everything that's going on is so simple and so predictable (at least in the first part). My point is from the get go, I've seen where the show was going (you can check my posts if you'd like) but that they undermine the quality of the narrative by doing extraneous things, backtracking on choices in characters, or leaving specific points unclear. And I smell the "I'm blinded by my appreciation for the source material" defence. My problem (as I have stated for maybe the 4th time) is that there is a lack of polish in the narrative. But you are right, I don't accept the story as it's being told, because I think it could be markedly better. That is not the fault of the anime. It's the fault of the director, and in a few cases, the adaptors. |
noteDhero said: I'm going to disagree that who they were was irrelevant to the story. This is a crucial point for Inferno, Claudia, SM and especially Ein and Zwei who are charged with this impossibly timed mission to execute. Failure meant the whole thing blows up in their faces. Who the targets were was 100% irrelevant. Since we have no information who the targets are or what they do, their names don't matter either. All we needed to know that they were crime families controlling the area. Seeing as how they went through the "chore" of letting us know who Zwei's first kill was, and marking Tony's (I think that was his name) family before we as viewers knew they had to be killed, it was out of character for the show to not distinguish who was being killed. Again, 100% irrelevant. We don't know who Frank Claude or Tony Snowe are, so their names don't give us any information. We can deduce their _function_, but that's all. I only knew that it was an elaborate set up after the cop was explaining everything to Tony at the end. It wasn't a matter of me using my brain a bit since I was paying attention. The direction was good enough that I saw everything that went on clearly, but the set up for it (which included saying everything but who was being killed) was lacking. The idea of this episode was that you did NOT know what their plan actually was before we saw it in action. It was up to us to figure out why they were doing what they did, and for those who didn't figure it out in time, it was spelled out explicitly once more at the end. Even you said you understood it. So what's to criticize? Obviously the setup would have been less "lacking" for you - to use your word - to explain the whole caper BEFOREHAND. And this would exactly be the dumbing down to kid complexity level which I find annoying in too many shows. This is an anime for grown-ups, and I like that the direction requires us to use our brain. This isn't "lacking" in my book, it's something I appreciate. The moment that I am talking about is in episode 5, long before Claudia sets the trap to catch Scythe Master. Reiji leaves to go with Claudia, and all of a sudden, Ein has this inappropriate moment of sadness or hesitation regarding what she has done. I don't have the episode here, but I'm 99% sure that nothing of this sort happened, again. Episode 5 was the first episode of "Inferno trying to take over the Plaza" arc, which had nearly no Ein at all. But okay, let's pretend that your "Scythe's espousal" was supposed to mean something entirely different. The "Ein has this inappropriate moment of sadness or hesitation" was in ep4, and not over what she has done at all. Ein is unsettled, but not about "what she has done", but about how Zwei is turning out. Within no time he has become as skillful as her. He's such an effective killer that even Ein is getting scared of him. And he is confusing her because Reiji undermines Ein's "just do what SM orders" approach, and instead asks her things about her origin, her dreams, and that she's not a mere puppet. THIS is why she's unsettled. He's undermining her way of life, making her question it. I found it totally false since an episode or two before, she was absolutely fine with being lubed down by SM. Maybe it wasn't in the bathroom, and I confused you on what I was talking about. That's my mistake if it's so. Being lubed down by SM has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rest. It only emphasizes that she has fully gone into dependency mode. SM orders, Ein obeys unquestioningly. Like a puppet. But Zwei is different and asks her to act differently. Ever tried to extract a dependent person from his/her addiction? Doing so will result in confusion and irritation - remember Ein's snapping at her as result of Reiji's questioning? "So what?" For me, what was unusual was the flippancy with which Reiji named Ein after the show very clearly hammering in the importance of a name to someone's persona. It wasn't a big thing, but it was yet another instance of the show undermining some of it's bigger themes. Again, the names of all their victims were irrelevant. But having a name is a big deal to Ein, because Zwei is trying to give her a personality of her own, instead of merely being SM's puppet. "Flippancy"? If you remember the bathroom scene, Reiji was nearly desperate, trying to pull Elen back from the suicide chasm. Not flippant. Claudia was on the show for 11 episodes, and not once did we know anything about her background or motivations until those few minutes in the recap. If you don't see how there is a ridiculous disparity between the way that she and Cal are presented (Cal getting a whole 2 episodes, and a monologue about her parent's and the dead hooker) as a means of introducing the characters, then I'm not sure what else to add. Because we have seen alot of Claudia in action before. We know how she acts, how she thinks, and what she's capable of. Her background WILL become an issue in chapter 2, but it isn't in chapter 1. Cal got maybe 10-15 minutes of airtime, combined. I think it was poorly set up for this reason: Lizzie never seemed to question why she was shooting at Ein and why Zwei had nothing to do with any of this, yet, blindly accepting that SM would just ditch Reiji all together. Why the heck should she question why she was shooting at Ein? She always hated SM with a passion, and Ein unquestionally attacked them. Ein was a traitor. And you seem to have forgotten that Lizzie DID take Reiji along with huge suspicions, she even pointed her gun at him, essentially disobeying Claudia! However, in the end, Reiji did shoot Ein and was shot by SM. No reason for her to doubt him after that. Maybe I'm harping on this issue, and overestimating Lizzie, but she still doesn't really seem to understand (or care to understand) what went on that night. For her (and everyone else in Inferno), Reiji was nearly shot dead by SM, after killing Ein. And after this, Reiji turned into the new Phantom, now under Claudia's control. Why in the lord's name would she dislike this outcome? I don't think I ever said anything was complicated. What I said is that there is a lack of cleanliness in the manner that the story is told that leads me to question often why something is going on onscreen. Especially because everything that's going on is so simple and so predictable (at least in the first part). Combine this line with the fact that you seem to have been unable to understand all these things I explained in my last 2 postings, and the outcome is pretty rich. If it was "so predictable", why have you been so wrong so often? My point is from the get go, I've seen where the show was going (you can check my posts if you'd like) but that they undermine the quality of the narrative by doing extraneous things, backtracking on choices in characters, or leaving specific points unclear. I have yet to see you come up with something shown there which was left unclear. The show DOES force you to draw some conclusions on your own, but that's no rocket science. And I simply disagree about the "backtracking on choices" thing. And I smell the "I'm blinded by my appreciation for the source material" defence. My problem (as I have stated for maybe the 4th time) is that there is a lack of polish in the narrative. But you are right, I don't accept the story as it's being told, because I think it could be markedly better. That is not the fault of the anime. It's the fault of the director, and in a few cases, the adaptors. So it's the fault of the director that it doesn't go the way you want it? That's an interesting position to take ^_^; |
| Tony Stone was a mob boss that was fighting drug wars on his territory, and grew up under the watch of that cop and Anton who both ended up ruining him. There was nothing to deduce. They spent two episodes on him. We got a sense of his morality with his refusal to join Inferno, and a sense of his despair once his family was murdered. Perhaps you're forgetting much of the time that was spent to set up/flesh him out. I been wracking my brain on who Frank and Claude are, and I honestly can't remember. Maybe you're mixing the names up like you did Tony's surname, or maybe they were named differently in the visual novel. Are you talking about the Navy Seal (Wallace)? That was the idea of the episode even thought they basically explained everything except the relationship between who was being murdered was beforehand? I'm amazed that you think that knowing people's names and relation to the events happening equates knowing the "whole caper beforehand. So you don't remember Ein saying something along the lines of, "Do/Did my eyes look like his?" And "I'm afraid of seeing you change into something like me?" That all screams of hesitation on her part of seeing Zwei as a reflection of herself, and not of her being scared of Zwei necessarily. All of which is starkly abrupt considering everything she had been saying to him and letting SM do to her beforehand. The whole point of having a name for Reiji and Ein meant having somewhere to belong and being able to make decisions for yourself. That's the theme I'm talking about; it has nothing to do with the names of the victims. Reiji giving Ein a name undermined that principle. Instead of choosing for herself what she wanted out of life, she was only following Reiji's ideal for the two of them. There's really nothing left for me to point out about Claudia's treatment. In the 10-15 minutes of airtime that Cal has been given, we have a better sense of her character, motivation, and direction than Claudia and her 11 episodes. Period. Whether or not Lizzie hates SM doesn't change the fact that they, for all intents and purposes, are comrades. Instead of question what was going on, she just took everything at face value during that gunfight. So you disagree that Reiji has been acting completely out of character since he began to stalk Scythe Master? That is the biggest, and most blatant backtracking of the development that Reiji had throughout the first part. Not to mention that there is no way he should even be alive now. |
| Cal was the element that was lacking! I liked! |
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| Just marathoned Phantom to episode 13 after dropping it, then picking it up again. I must admit it became quite entertaining after episode 8, while before that it felt quite dull. Reiji's personality taking a 180° turn was fun to see, though quite cliche. Boy changes completely after loosing everything, but still can't put his past at peace? Déjà-vu. Concerning this episode, I'm curious to see how they'll fit Cal in this whole assassin business. A cute blond loli in an underground world? Doesn't seem to suit the atmosphere quite well, but I'll wait and see. |
AlexstratzJul 1, 2009 5:53 PM
| ugh ein the dog is better than ein the phantom. |
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noteDhero said: For me, what was unusual was the flippancy with which Reiji named Ein after the show very clearly hammering in the importance of a name to someone's persona. It wasn't a big thing, but it was yet another instance of the show undermining some of it's bigger themes. The "name" still plays an important role. If you haven't noticed Reiji has taken a few steps back from the person he was before getting all shot up to death. He's now split his personality into two individual ones. The first being Zwei, the stone coled assassin with no emotions at all that the people in the "inner world" see. The second being Renji, the person he was before "dieing", that the outer world sees (ie. The new girl). The Renji we see now isn't 100% like the one in the past. He's clearly putting on an act most of the time just to appear harmless. With that said, we can guess that the new chick will grow on Reiji just like Ein did, which will result in his personality changing and becoming more emotional similar to how he was before he "died". As for my guess on whether or not Reiji turns the new girl into an assassin...I'm guessing yes and no. The next episode shows her shooting. This could be basic self defense that he's teaching her or this could be her just testing out his gun. In either case I believe her "genius" is in a different area of expertise. She clearly has the smarts to take mechanical stuff apart and put them back together again (ie. the clock). I wouldn't be surprised if that was her role in this. Making explosives or working with mechanical stuff for Reiji. So far I'm still pleased with this show. I was thinking the new girl would annoy the hell out of me but so far she hasn't. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| I kinda like how this story is progressing. Ein feels like the prologue to the body of the story. Now that Reiji has his own will and drive, it seems like the story will only be getting more interesting. |
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| Hey Reiji, you're loosing up lol. Was a nice episode, Cal has potential alright. Looking forward to more. |
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whatev said: Reiji himself said that the name itself wasn't particularly important. After all, how many of us actually get to choose our own name? The name was meant to give her an opportunity to choose her own identity to go with that name, one that isn't about being Scythe Master's tool. One thing that they left out that I would have liked to see incorporated in some way was why Elen hesitated when she faced down that guy. You know, that makes a lot more sense. Perhaps part of the reason why I'm so critical of the show is that it's missing all the little nuances and such from the VN. I don't exactly need everything spelled out for me, but even a line like that would have done wonders to account for the major changes in Ein's behaviour after that point. While watching the anime, I did not know she had connected that deeply to her new Elen identity (since she doesn't express emotions too well), but if they included a line such as that in her thoughts, it really would have showed that kind of connection. |
Zeino said: This anime ruining on me. That loli bitch needs to die and bring back Ein asap. This |
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Aeterna said: Did anyone else get the feeling that Cal staying so readily at Reiji's place (AND taking a shower within the first five minutes of stepping in there...and forgetting a towel...) was creepy and disturbing? Even the way she was dressed was disturbing, what with the off-the-shoulder shirts and whatnot. It wasn't cute at all. It's like every child molester's dream, and I wasn't fond of that kind of atmosphere. Cal really needs to get a clue. She's just fortunate that Reiji isn't out to get her or anything. as for the towel, there's nothing really special about it. I caught myself in a situation like this many times when e.g. I visited my parents and had a shower there and completely forgot about the towel, just because I was too air-headed to think about it first. No matter where you're, you think about the towel only when you're already all wet, you know.. xDD In fact, you could also use Monad's explanations for these scenes, but I personally doubt those, since I don't see them suitable for Cal's peronality as I see it myself, which is... the shower scene, the towel scene, and the t-shirt scene all together.. well, I was quite sure it was all done on Cal's own purpose. I can only guess what her original plan could have been. But it was pretty much clear for me that Cal tried to sexually harrass Reiji and it was her pure intention. The reason? I wonder. I'd assume it to be a "trust" test, to find out Reiji's reaction. Though such kind of assumptions suggests she might have had some tricks in her mind to run away if something goes wrong. Which seems totally believable since she has lived with a prostitute and has had a street life experience as well as she's still just a kid and thinks she can cheat anyone. Also, she could merely tease Reiji since she's just that kind of person and is smart enough to understand that Reiji won't attack her all of a sudden. Anyway, I admit it's normal for people to find such a behaviour creepy or disgusting. But that's the way it is in real life. And you can do nothing but accept it. And it's particularly because of such realisim and the emotions it brings I like this show. |
| um..nice episode i guess...lol..too tired to criticize anything |
| No man fails if he does his best - Orison Swett Marden |
| I'm starting to like Cal. I hope her and Zwei find out who killed Judy. I have a feeling it's one of the people from Inferno. Idk why. >w< |
| Azuma Reiji's kindness is beyond reasonable and is out of bounds. |
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| Cal is much less annoying than I believed she would be... I think this could get pretty interesting. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Kira01 said: Azuma Reiji's kindness is beyond reasonable and is out of bounds. Cuz real man need L-O-L-I, its as simple as that. Zwei already pimped Elen, Claudia so he need LOLI now, & the best excuse he can come up with is making her his "partner", in work as well as in love. Zwei was not as stupid as you think, my friend ;-) |
 If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Ahhh <3 Reiji. Cal isn't that bad... |
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stickymochi said: Ahhh <3 Reiji. Cal isn't that bad... Your "isn't that bad" will soon change into "Damn you, Reiji! You lucky bastard, Cal was way too good for you, I'm so jealous!!!" soon, trust me ;) |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| So far, the series is following the game's story script. As expected, Wisemel can be a raging bull. I don't know if they really needed to play the loli card w/ Cal that much (aka shower scene). |
| Sore wa himitsu desu. |
| Forgot to add: Love the inside joke with the Mongolia travel pamphlet in the loft. If you completed the "Cerulean Sky" ending in the Phantom of Inferno game, you'd understand this...lol. |
| Sore wa himitsu desu. |
This was probably the most intense in emotions and was totally in T_T with Cal for Judy's death like we were in the same moment. This was a sad moment. Five millions dollars is a lot of money also!  On another note screw the stupid fanservice of Zwei and Cal cause it disturbs me more than the killings. |
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| Lame loli assasin.. Bring back Ein pls. On an unrelated note I'm really liking the BGM over the past few episodes, really helps this anime. |
     last.fm ╢ My CG AMV ╢ Otaku Test ╢ |
| Hmm, a decent episode. Why did Reiji bring Cal back to his house? Why is he trying so hard to avenge Judy? If Cal doesn't know anything, the best option is to leave her or kill her, right? Now, the organization suspects Reiji and Claudia. Bad move Reiji. Didn't know Reiji also has a thing on little girls. I MISS ELEN, MAN. EIN WHERE ARE YOU?! |
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