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Poll: Neon Genesis Evangelion Episode 21 Discussion


Nov 1, 2013 9:28 PM

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Now Misato is regretting it.... And Asuka will be mad at Misato probably.
 
Dec 23, 2013 6:36 PM

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Oh gosh, so much information!
Well, I'm hoping the Rei clone that Shinji knows currently is... less scary.
I knew that Rei was something of a mother to Shinji, but last episode confused me into thinking she was more of a sibling... Ah, I suppose there is going to be more explanation on that front, I hope?
 
 
Jan 4, 2014 7:38 PM

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I watched the Director's Cut version. It was a very satisfying episode. I didn't expect them to explain so many things.

Like everyone says on previous posts, I'm also expecting Rei's character to be a clone. That would be so tragic...
Modified by NaughtyNoddy, Jan 4, 2014 7:43 PM
 
Feb 1, 2014 12:56 AM

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Elleir said:
I understood most of what has been said earlier, but I still can't tell if it's Mitsuko who killed Kaji. I guess I'm going to find out...


oh my god your right Misato is totally the one that killed Kaji it makes since! and also makes the last scene oh so much more dramatic.

So we see Kaji release the vice commander from nerve because remember Kaji works for seele not nerve and they didnt like that he was kidnapped and then the vice commander told him he was probably going to be killed for releasing him. next we see Misato be released and given her gun back then she asks so where is he?(because she was basically given a hit order) that also makes since as to why Kaji acts as if he knew his shooter well asking "where have you been? i thought you would have been here quicker." Then heres the best part that also explains as to how Kaji knew he was going to die in his voice mail he left for Misato because he knew knew she was going to be the one to kill him. wow that makes that last scene so much more powerfull and heart breaking for Misato
 
Feb 17, 2014 5:54 PM

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Man these 20something episodes are intense. Strap in tight!
 
Feb 18, 2014 11:11 PM

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At this point I'm just going to stop thinking and questioning and just try to absorb whatever info they provide. Hopefully it'll all make sense in the end.
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness."

"May those who defy their fate be granted glory."
 
Feb 26, 2014 5:25 AM

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tough cookies. bf gone die
"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy."
 
 
Mar 7, 2014 11:30 PM

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Whoa so she chokes out a little girl then commits suicide? She had some serious issues!! I wonder if she purposefully killed Shinji's mom to get to Gendo...

So much strange stuff in this episode! Many answers and many questions. Why take your wife's name? Did Rei clone 1 really die? What does he mean by uniting man with God? Did that pre-NERV org believe that a human bonded with an Eva would be some supreme being, the next evolution of humanity? So they started making Evas before an Angel attacked?

All these characters hating their parents, but following their footsteps... hmmm...
Love and Peace!!!
 
Apr 6, 2014 8:18 AM

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INFO DUMP

German meanings
SEELE = soul
NERV = nerve
GEHIRN = brain (thus it was disbanded, becoming Nerv the moment the Magi became operational)

The confusion over who kills Kaji depends on which version you watched:
In the "On Air" version, people assumed Misato shot him because it instantly cuts to the nameplate on her door, then shows her sobbing. The transition's different in the Director's Cut. (It's still not clear who did it but it does not imply Misato)
 
Apr 30, 2014 10:44 AM

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god, so much information.. I wasn't able to follow it all :( I think I need to rewatch this :(
 
May 10, 2014 8:02 PM
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Blackouting said:
INFO DUMP

German meanings
SEELE = soul
NERV = nerve
GEHIRN = brain (thus it was disbanded, becoming Nerv the moment the Magi became operational)

The confusion over who kills Kaji depends on which version you watched:
In the "On Air" version, people assumed Misato shot him because it instantly cuts to the nameplate on her door, then shows her sobbing. The transition's different in the Director's Cut. (It's still not clear who did it but it does not imply Misato)
correct word of god says that it was some random guy from NERV intelligence hence the "The problem has been taking care of line" Misato also figured out what they meant by that hence her sobbing, she figured out theykilled him.
 
 
Jun 7, 2014 12:46 PM

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Wow lots of info this episode. Rei is a clone (one of many). Kaji was killed, kinda saw that one coming though with all the foreshadowing.
 
Jun 25, 2014 6:01 PM

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I watched the Director's Cut. Great episode. So we learn about Nerv's past and how it came to be, and also a little backstory on Shinji and his father. As well as Rei, Misato, and Ritsuko. Shame to see Kaji died, I really thought he was cool. I'm suspecting that Misato was the killer, but I could be wrong. I also suspect that Rei is a clone, because she was strangled to death my Ritsuko's mother.
 
Jul 1, 2014 9:27 AM

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DaydreamHero said:


All these characters hating their parents, but following their footsteps... hmmm...



SO I totally didn't see that until now....like I subconsciously understood that but I guess I never realized it.

This episode was just great. I didn't watch the directors cut but I think I got the same information as most everybody else. Love the backstory, it was about time we got one!
 
Jul 27, 2014 7:30 PM

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The exposition in this episode was flawless. They didn't downplay anything for the audience & the human condition towards the end regarding Shinji & Misato was brilliant
 
Aug 5, 2014 5:18 AM

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Aug 28, 2014 9:38 PM
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good episode and very grateful for the people offering insight on things that happened and clearing some questions I had up :)
 
Nov 14, 2014 6:10 PM

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OK. This episode is"The Big Sleep"-level convoluted. Well-executed.
 
Nov 28, 2014 3:42 PM

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Human beings are truly frightening creatures.
 
Dec 9, 2014 1:08 PM

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Dayum, so Kaji is dead. I wonder who killed him though? NERV or SEELE? I don't even.
 
Dec 27, 2014 12:34 AM

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Sand_Scar said:
So we see Kaji release the vice commander from nerve because remember Kaji works for seele not nerve and they didnt like that he was kidnapped and then the vice commander told him he was probably going to be killed for releasing him. next we see Misato be released and given her gun back then she asks so where is he?(because she was basically given a hit order) that also makes since as to why Kaji acts as if he knew his shooter well asking "where have you been? i thought you would have been here quicker." Then heres the best part that also explains as to how Kaji knew he was going to die in his voice mail he left for Misato because he knew knew she was going to be the one to kill him. wow that makes that last scene so much more powerfull and heart breaking for Misato


URGHHH both sides make sense though. To an extent. Somehow I still believe that Misato didn't kill Kaji.
A hit order? I doubt it... It was too vague. The guy who releases Misato just implies that "he'll be killed / he was killed". And the answering machine part- I thought he was only leaving that kind of message because he knew he was going to die. With the red Nerv card foreshadowing it. It's just that his "Hey, you're late" feels like it's directed towards Misato with all the mention of him being late to their dates.

... To be honest, I just don't think Misato could kill him. She loved him, and from what we see of her compassion for Shinji, I don't think there's any way she could've pulled the trigger. Maybe they changed the transition in the director's cut to avoid giving the impression that Misato killed Kaji >_>
 
Jan 5, 2015 12:53 PM

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This episode brillantly expressed Gendo's greatness, that cold and heartless bastard. He's basically the core of 90% of shit going on right now.

Kaji will never be forgotten.
 
Jan 11, 2015 1:32 AM

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This was really interesting episode, it becomes so much complicated. :)
 
Feb 27, 2015 6:29 PM

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The backstory was delicious.
 
 
Apr 30, 2015 7:57 AM

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Great to have things explained at us, Gendou is a bastard through and through. It looks like Kaji died at the end. ( RIP )

Rei is pretty much confirmed a clone now. ( no wonder she acts liek a robot )
 
May 24, 2015 7:34 PM

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This ep explains a lot. Shinji was so adorable as a kid!
 
May 31, 2015 11:19 AM

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I remember watching this episode for the first time, and I was so confused ... so much information.

Gendo had a relationship with Ritsuko's mother.
Magi gets completed.
Yui dies during an experiment, showing "the bright future" to Shinji.
Ritsuko's mother killed the Rei from back then (has to have been cloned after), then commits suicide.
We learn how Gehirn became NERV.
Kaji gets killed, Misato hears his last message.
Shinji doesnt know how / want to deal with Misato.

The DC had a scene with Yui and Fuyutsuki which made me to believe they could've had an affair perhaps.
Modified by PrOxAnto, May 31, 2015 2:02 PM
 
May 31, 2015 1:41 PM
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PrOxAnto said:
I remember watching this episode for the first time, and I was so confused ... so much information.

Gendo had a relationship with Misato's mother.
Magi gets completed.
Yui dies during an experiment, showing "the bright future" to Shinji.
Misato's mother killed the Rei from back then (has to have been cloned after), then commits suicide.
We learn how Gehirn became NERV.
Kaji gets killed, Misato hears his last message.
Shinji doesnt know how / want to deal with Misato.

The DC had a scene with Yui and Fuyutsuki which made me to believe they could've had an affair perhaps.

Ritsuko's Mom NOT Misato's
 
May 31, 2015 2:01 PM

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animalia said:
PrOxAnto said:
I remember watching this episode for the first time, and I was so confused ... so much information.

Gendo had a relationship with Misato's mother.
Magi gets completed.
Yui dies during an experiment, showing "the bright future" to Shinji.
Misato's mother killed the Rei from back then (has to have been cloned after), then commits suicide.
We learn how Gehirn became NERV.
Kaji gets killed, Misato hears his last message.
Shinji doesnt know how / want to deal with Misato.

The DC had a scene with Yui and Fuyutsuki which made me to believe they could've had an affair perhaps.

Ritsuko's Mom NOT Misato's


Whoops, thanks, messed up the names ^^
Changed it!
 
 
Jun 26, 2015 6:42 PM

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The past haunts all. ep 21.

Plot-The truth and birth of Nerv. Fuyutsuki's involvement with Gendo, Yui, Seele, and the Eva is all laid out. Including the reveal of a certain Naoko Akagi and what her actions spelled for Nerv today.

Character-The cadre of the most mysterious of Nerv got to shine. Fuyutsuki is a highlight since of them he seemed like the most normal/moral but even he fell in line with Human Instrumentality. Gendo seems to be a sociopath even in his younger years but for some reason, he managed to attract Yui. What that says about her is up to debate.

Ritsuko helps things with the introduction of her mother Naoko and meeting with Misato and Kaji. Misato proving to have had a darker outlook considering her past with 2nd impact. Naoko's affair with Gendo and her deeds before her end paint her as a flawed woman and apparently that Gendo for some reason attracts intelligent women.

3.8/5. This ep answers many questions but produces more as well. Backstory is all around and good.

Modified by Aarronin, Jul 9, 2015 5:38 PM


I go where I wanna go, even if its into Oppai.
 
Jul 11, 2015 11:45 AM

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Wow, they really should have paced that back story throughout the season instead of post loading it all.
Such junk...
 
 
Jul 12, 2015 10:11 AM

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Boom boom, so much information at once, boom boom.
It's all still blurry, especially the parts about Shinji, Rei, Yui and Gendo.
And the Second Impact of course, Adam and other stuff.
But I'm so excited to see more arrrggggh. o(^-^)o
 
Oct 22, 2015 12:12 AM

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That was definitely a lot of extremely interesting info. Up to this point we knew almost nothing about Yui. Poor Shinji, at the end. I understand how he feels, knowing that even if he tries to provide comfort, he's just a kid.

Seems things are only going to go more haywire now.
 
Nov 1, 2015 12:17 AM

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God, I'm more confused now than I was before, lol. I mean, there was so much information and I just ended up gaining a new question for every one that was answered.
Modified by -Trippwire-, Nov 1, 2015 12:39 AM
 
Nov 5, 2015 9:23 PM

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It would have benefited the show to have spread all of this backstory across the previous episodes as this was a lot of information to indulge at once and it would have helped to maintain a higher level of mystery and interest throughout.

Little Rei is adorable and resembles Yui (her "mother"?) to a large degree. It was interesting how Gendo took on his wife's surname and how devious and shady he was even in his younger years.

Little Rei died, but yet an older Rei exists in the present time. In order to avoid suspicion and exist in plain sight, it would have been necessary for her to display visible growth. This would imply that Gendo is able to create clones with the desired age, unless he's putting all of his eggs into one basket in one clone.

Speculation:

I'm going to claim that Adam's DNA was probably one of the elements used to create Rei (although I kind of already did this for the previous episode). In addition, if it's true that Gendo is able to create clones with the desired age, then I'll go ahead and further claim that the true Rei has probably never left the tube she was present in for a few quick scenes. However, the consciousness of every clone is linked to the original Rei. Each individual clone are all linked to the original mind, therefore the experiences and knowledge of each are gained by the original and will be transferred to future clones. However, it is possible to upload a person's will and personality into a computer or Eva, so another possibility is that in actuality Rei only exists as a "soul" in a machine, and that the tube we've been seeing has actually been containing a new clone.

Now if what I've been speculating about Gendo's plan to ascend humanity or whatever is true, if Rei being used as the prototype is true, if all the Angels are linked to one mind is true, and if Rei being a synthesis of human and Angels is true, then Gendo intends to link everyone in the human race together as a single entity that transcends both humans and Angels. A supreme being.

Much of my speculations over the recent episodes have all built on one another, so if something is incorrect then it will all come crashing down. Not that it matters since this anime has been a joy to overanalyze.
Modified by ZeroDragon, Nov 5, 2015 11:07 PM
 
Nov 22, 2015 8:39 AM

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Great episode. We got tons of backstory and information, and some of it was rather sad. The way Shinji's mom died was really sad, especially since she brought Shinji there to witness it. Also Misato really was messed up after witnessing the second impact, not talking for 2 years is pretty crazy.

Oh, and blondie's mom was a complete bitch, I guess we now know where she gets it from. Seriously, wanting Shinji's mom dead just so she could be with his dad is disgusting. Almost makes me wonder if she sabotaged the test and caused her death in the first place.

She did have a point though, Rei looks disturbingly close to Yui, she also has the name he was gonna give to their daughter. I wonder if she could be some sort of clone of Shinji's mother? It would explain why he seems to care for her so much, even over his own son. It is odd though, it looked like blondie's mom killed Rei...so, what's up with that? Is that why there was blood all over the wall? Did they shoot her before she was able to end Rei's life? Or if she is just a clone, did he just re clone her? Hmm, so many questions.

Also I'll admit, the ending was pretty sad. I feel I felt more sad for Misato then I did Kaji though. But, I guess I was wrong about him, if he actually is dead that is.
Modified by Shape430, Nov 22, 2015 8:48 AM
 
 
Dec 23, 2015 8:33 AM

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Kaji went too deep into this, his fate was sealed for being a 2 face spy. So Akagi somehow killed Yui with the test and squeezed young clone Rei to death, but how the heck did Akagi die? So many questions. And Shinji's still doing a good job at running away, everyone's proud of him.
 
Jan 1, 2016 5:27 PM

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(rewatching again)

5/5
Answers! Answers everywhere!
Rei(1) dead.
Gendo is one shady character.
Who was late to meet Kaji?
 
Feb 7, 2016 1:59 PM

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This episode reveals a lot of information on the story .
It is possible that Rei is actually like something artificial of Yui Ikari , hence how she talks to Dr.Akagi . Still it had some confusing parts , so the Impact was created by them ? (humans) .
Seems like Kaji wont be back , poor Misato .
Great Episode .
 
Aug 15, 2016 10:33 AM

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So this is how it all started huh, Rei is probably some sort of hybrid.
RIP Kaji
 
Nov 1, 2016 1:20 PM

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Oh, no! Kaji...
I hope Misato is not the one to kill him like so msny people said.

 
Nov 2, 2016 4:14 AM
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karineyn said:
Oh, no! Kaji...
I hope Misato is not the one to kill him like so msny people said.
Supposedly an unidentified ember of NERV security did it.
 
Nov 2, 2016 5:06 AM

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animalia said:
karineyn said:
Oh, no! Kaji...
I hope Misato is not the one to kill him like so msny people said.
Supposedly an unidentified ember of NERV security did it.

Thank you ^_^better than Misato, even though it doesn't change Kaji's death.

 
Nov 2, 2016 5:20 AM
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karineyn said:
animalia said:
Supposedly an unidentified ember of NERV security did it.

Thank you ^_^better than Misato, even though it doesn't change Kaji's death.
Apparently the creators were surprised that people came to that conclusion. Apparently a bad editing choice on their part.
 
 
Nov 2, 2016 5:29 AM

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animalia said:
karineyn said:

Thank you ^_^better than Misato, even though it doesn't change Kaji's death.
Apparently the creators were surprised that people came to that conclusion. Apparently a bad editing choice on their part.

I guess the most misleading part is when Kaji smiles at someone and asking them why they are this late to come or something like that, I don't remember the exact words. Personally, I didn't know I liked Kaji this much untill he died, haha ^_^ but it was really sad, especially after seeing the relationship between Misato and Kaji develop in a cute way and after the revelation of their relationship in the past. Creators always do that. They give you the backstory of the character just before killing him. Sucks.

 
Nov 17, 2016 4:05 PM

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It was nice knowing ya Kaji.

When I said the preview I thought this episode was going to a boring one but I couldn't have been more wrong.
 
 
Jan 4, 2017 1:38 PM

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Saw the director's cut. Have no idea what the origianl was like but I remember hearing how the studio didn't have any more budget and it was just a slide show or something. I dont know.

So much informotion! I love it. I love it when I found out how and why people tick.

Holy fucking is Shinji's mom beautiful. How the hell did Gendo swoon her? I don't believe it. It also seems like he and Akari had a affair. Unknown if this was going on after or before Yui's death. I hope after because how can you cheat on a girl like her!?

Akagi killed a Rei because she was calling her a hag. Seems like there are other Rei's. I do wonder if she retains memories of her previous self or something. Also Rei is defintely some sort of clone of Yui. That's definitely clear. They look very similar and sound very similar. But who killed Akagi? It looked like she fell but I think someone pushed her. There was also a loud sound. It didn't sound like a gunshot though. Gendo?

We also learn a lot about Misato. She was the sole survivor of the Second Impact and became mute for 2 years. Feels bad man.

I wonder who killed Kaji? He said you're late so it must've been someone he knew. I hope we find d out later. I think it might very been Gendo.

Misato breaking down and crying learning about Kaji's death... don't cry Misato. I liked Kaji and will miss him.

Great episode.
 
Jan 5, 2017 1:39 AM

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@Nano1124 The original didn't had the scientists talk about Adam, Longinus and the (Katsuragi) expedition. It also lacked the dialogue between Kiehl Lorenz and Gendô and maybe a Fuyutsuki scene.

Ikari would never have cheated on his wife, despite the first impression he made on Fuyutsuki. That's probably the only being he ever loved (he even took his woman's name).
Plus, it was only part of him taking control/bending things to his will, like with Ritsuko later.

The biggest thing in what Rei I said was that she was citing the commander.
Gendô is probably the killer, yes. But in a sense, it was a fair retribution.

Seeing Misato as a child and then in pain as an adult felt good after so many episodes to watch her "happy easy-going" persona/mask (who dates from her university years, I think).

Kaji was a "triple agent" that people left because he was still beneficial. After his most recent actions/leaks (on his own), he was of course in the expectation of being killed. No surprise here. We just see him as "relaxed" as usual (or could I say we saw him acting like he usually acts.
 
Jan 12, 2017 3:53 PM

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Dam this was episode was full of info which helped me understand everything even clearer. I'm guessing the reason there's no corpse for Yui under the grave because her DNA was used to create Rei. Rip Akagi commiting suicide, I'm guessing Rei survived that tho. OMG The preview for next episode irritated my eyes so much with the flashes.
 
Mar 29, 2017 7:54 PM

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Man, that was a lot of information all at once. Hard to keep up with the fast subtitles AND still take in the scene's. I feel like I miss a few things every episode, I'm sure it will be a lot easier to piece together all of the information by rewatching the series...

Still, I feel like some of this information could've been sprinkled in earlier in the series, so it doesn't feel like an info-overload all at once and only near the end of the series. The first 8-10 episodes felt like there was no plot nor enough background information to really know what is going on. This series thus far could've been handled better. I've been enjoying the show more since the recap around episode 12. Things are slowly starting to make a lot more sense, thank goodness.
 
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