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Poll: Neon Genesis Evangelion Episode 21 Discussion


Mar 30, 2017 12:24 AM

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@Paleshika Most 26ish episodes TV series not based on pre-existing stories had this skeleton back when full TV shows were a thing (before the 13ep. trend):
- a single/double introductory episode,
- a first half of "one-shot" cases allowing to illustrate characters ways, with one or two elements slipped into it to create a mystery, plus a very few details giving informations sprinkled on that (often ones who had to be connected to later things in order to bring out something),
- the often double middle episode with a shock revelation or equivalent,
- the next half growing out of the previous compartmented aspect and regularly adding some more shocks/revelations. Sometimes fused with some more character themed episodes
- a double episode finale.



@Nishi_23 Yes, he has been assassinated.
Hum, didn't you notice that he was spying on the NERV/Gendô Ikari for the Seele, on the Seele for Ikari AND even did things for himself? (oh, and he shared infos with Misato) I guess you can say he was a "triple agent".
Now that you have read this, I think you understand who might have ordered his execution. ^^

About the "god thing", I don't remember the exact content of this episode so you'll have to remind me, sorry.

Numbers of things aren't said to the audience in words nor are the focus of dialogues. Maybe you are eating the episodes too fast, but I can't blame anyone for doing this when I was the same (the 26eps in 2days, the 1st time).

OK, if the english subtitles are that fast (bad fansub? the official french edition was only hard to read when there were plenty of translated signs/panels), you should indeed keep using "pause" when needed. This would be better than miss informations, subtly pointed out or outright said.
I can imagine that you already skipped quite a lot of important infos or foreshadowing.


@FMmatron Good news for you: the confirmation about Rei comes around the "Rei III" episode you are about to watch. Plus a bit more in ep.24.


@kawaiinekoloverWhy would Gendo want to make another god?
WHen is it said so? Gendô has his own goal, not the one of the SEELE. We are shown that he constantly tries to outstep them to his own advantage (he acquired Adam for hmself through Kaji pretty early in the show for example.
Is the Second Impact caused by Seele?
I'm pretty sure that the recap episode or one a few episodes later clearly said what the Second Impact really was: the "first contact"' with a "god", Adam. And if you followed the SEELE origin episode (the recap one?), you are told that the Katsuragi (father of Misato) expedition sent to the South Pole to retrieve Adam and experiment on it was comissioned by the SEELE (or was it the Gehirn, its old name?). What triggered the Second Impact was what they did on this occasion. Only isato survived among the people that were on location.
What happened to Kaji?
Well, when you are chased after by a worldwide shadow sect of powerful men after you were foolish enough to play the triple agent, when one of those people find you and shots at you the result is obvious. ^^
This show is starting to raise so many questions. I hope all these questions will be answered later.
Many questions won't be answered:
. The ones answered, you might have probably already gotten their "answer": it's mostly shown/deduced/whatever, in other worlds, not directly said in a sentence dedicated to it.

Have a nice watch (especially this great end)

@ShadowZ_AnimeZ Neither Ritsuko nor Misato killed Kaji. o_O
As for the director's cut? If you can, watch them instead of the TV episodes, because of the fixed details and the supplemntary scenes.


@JeremiahOrange Why Ritsuko? Always imagined that the alternative to Naoko's suicide was that she was murdered by Gendô.


Mai 3rd, 2019
@Kajo_Senpai69 "it makes me think back about all those Shinji×Rei moments and how weird it makes me feel now."
Why "weird"? Doesn't it clarify a lot about the relative "ease" of connection Shinji had with her (and vice-versa).

"a single mother having a one-night fling with a widowed father is a pretty inconsequential thing" I was under the impression it was something that lasted more than that (I easily imagined Gendô exploiting her attraction for him for a while without problem).

"her getting put down by security" It's nice to see you got yet another person behind her death (many viewers often believed it was a suicide, while others are leaning toward Gendô doing it himself).

"Katsuragi was forced to put Kaji down." Hey, what?? "to put down" like in "killing him"? It was obviously either NERV or SEELE's henchmen.

May 17th, 2019
@2ego Hum, what? How can a widower be caught cheating?

June 4, 2019
@retr0ali Yes. For the episodes who were recut with added scenes/montages (ep21 up to 24).

retr0ali said:
is there a way to tell off the bat?

The episodes durations, plain and simply. DC versions are longer than the TV cuts, obviously. (exact durations are available on the Internet but I don't think it's useful)

@HellzBellz82 I'll say "yes, it was" then.


November 12, 2019
@ViniSD that kid Rei it's the same that the present Rei, or it's another clone?
Obviously, 'little Rei" is dead, killed 10 years ago by Naoko before she "committed suicide".
I still have no idea of what the Dead Sea Scrolls are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls
In the Evangelion "mythology", the Gehirn/Seele (the old men sect) exploited them to get informations (Adam, Impact, Angels...).
I hope you'll love the end of TV.

January 15, 2019
@LordQuaz Maybe every character doesn't actually "need a romantic subplot" since their existence greatly depend on how the watcher received the épisodes, this one (and the film) in Fuyutsuki's case.
Modified by Rei_III, Jan 15, 12:08 AM
 
Jul 30, 2017 7:34 AM

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I have absolutely no idea what just happened. CALM DOWN THOSE SUBS!

So, Kaji got killed? Why? By who?

What's with this god thing?

Eejpigeprgmnerighp;merh;nrdhfffffenp;amdrfhaeh
 
 
Jul 30, 2017 9:15 AM
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Nishi_23 said:
I have absolutely no idea what just happened. CALM DOWN THOSE SUBS!

So, Kaji got killed? Why? By who?

What's with this god thing?

Eejpigeprgmnerighp;merh;nrdhfffffenp;amdrfhaeh

Again try PAUSING the vid
Nishi_23 said:
I have absolutely no idea what just happened. CALM DOWN THOSE SUBS!

So, Kaji got killed? Why? By who?

What's with this god thing?

Eejpigeprgmnerighp;merh;nrdhfffffenp;amdrfhaeh
 
Sep 17, 2017 6:47 AM

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Fuck,that was heavy content, but I liked this episode and the backround storytelling. It gave more insight on the characters and things seem clearer now.

The thing I'm still asking myself the most right now is, what is Rei ?

R.i.p Kaji :/
One Piece episode 914 & 915 were a mistake.

 
Sep 20, 2017 11:14 AM

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Damn did they just kill my favourite character? smh
 
Nov 23, 2017 10:42 AM

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It's kinda hard to keep track of all the information the episode was giving. I still have some questions for the series. Why would Gendo want to make another god? Is the Second Impact caused by Seele? What happened to Kaji? I hope all these questions will be answered later. This show is starting to raise so many questions.
 
Jan 27, 2018 1:45 PM

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Misato's backstory was the most interesting part of this episode. She transformed from a mute, traumatized girl to fighting back and becoming the loud girl we know today (with the stamina to apparently have sex for a whole week).

Did Shinji see his mom disappear in that experiment? Does he remember it? That could explain a lot of why he's so screwed up.

Did Kaji get killed? Gee...Misato's having a rough week already, but this on top of it...she's gonna be just as screwed up as the EVA pilots.
"No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!"
 
Feb 18, 2018 7:42 PM

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So many backstories and revelation! At one point, I thought Ritsuko's mother proceeds to have sex after she kissed Gendo which resulted in both of them having a child named Rei. BUT I WAS GLADLY WRONG!!!

There are still some mysteries such as where and who did Rei came from. Gendo's acquaintance sounds like a cover-up.
And how exactly did Shinji's mother died?
Also, Rei is already killed by Ritsuko's mother, which cause her to kill herself. But in the present time, Rei is still alive!
Mitsuko killing Keiji is really sudden.

Should I watch the director's cut?
Modified by ShadowkillZ_, Feb 19, 2018 10:23 AM
 
 
Mar 8, 2018 10:07 AM

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Akagi's mom is such a bitch. I am glad that she killed herself/Akagi murdered her. But Rei as a child is cute and so kawaii. Akagi's mom is a old hag. For killing Yui.

And Kaji is dead. No surprise there.

I am feeling impatient already. Other than the info dumps provided.
It may be possible that Akagi's mom killed Yui so that she can get with the director.
I hope that we understand more about Rei.

And I think Shingeki no Kyojin took some stuff from this anime. Though I could be wrong.

Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate.


I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death.


 
Aug 26, 2018 8:51 PM

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That cold opening was so damn intense. Imagining that footage as an event happening in real life made me sick to my stomach with dread. A staggering start to this episode. Thinking about it now still gives me chills.
 
Aug 29, 2018 9:43 AM

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Rei366 said:

@JeremiahOrange Why Ritsuko? Always imagined that the alternative to Naoko's suicide was that she was murdered by Gendô.


@Rei366 That thought never crossed my mind, even though it should have. I always thought of Gendo as the harmless one, the one who is calm and clear about things, even though he was clearly pulling most of the strings.

I thought it was Ritsuko before cause she said that she hated her mom. And
.

To me, Gendo is the second coolest person in NGE(
), cause even though he is dormant most of the time, when he takes control, it is so goddamn epic.

Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate.


I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death.


 
Nov 3, 2018 9:41 PM

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Elleir said:
I understood most of what has been said earlier, but I still can't tell if it's Mitsuko who killed Kaji. I guess I'm going to find out...

Moonfrost said:

4. The creator of Magi, mother of the yellow-haired girl, probably got killed and put her brain inside Magi. I'm not sure though.


She killed herself after strangling Rei to death and learning she was despised by Ikari.


I thought Gendo killed her after learning she killed Rei. Maybe staged it as a suicide.

 
 
Dec 15, 2018 3:01 PM

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So much backstory in this episode.

 
May 3, 2019 4:38 AM

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It was interesting to see the past of those who had created the very foundations of NERV and how they lived they lived their lives right before the Evas even had pilots. Gendo kept Yui's last name instead because she's the reputable one among the two and he pretty much ended up using her last name as a leverage to get in better terms with SEELE after that accident she had with Unit 00's prototype. That implication that Rei might be some sort of clone of Yui Ikari's quite a surprise and it makes me think back about all those Shinji×Rei moments and how weird it makes me feel now.

While it's pretty distasteful to have an affair in general, a single mother having a one-night fling with a widowed father is a pretty inconsequential thing since there weren't anyone they're cheating on at the time anymore. Rei might've just been a kid who's repeating what her asshat father said behind Akagi's back but she really was unbearable to the point of asking to be strangled. It's really unfortunate that it reached that point with her getting put down by security after she did so much for the organization. So that's how she tried to stuck to her dignity as a woman until the very end...

Katsuragi was forced to put Kaji down after he got caught in his activities and that last message at the end was heartbreaking. He was a really shady character but looking back on it made me realize that he wasn't that bad of a person after all.








 
May 17, 2019 8:46 AM
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Goddamn a lot of information this episode, a lot happened. First, Shinji's father is actually a faggot, literally a faggot...not only did he cheat, he also straight up threw the woman he cheated with in a trash can... Ah, poor Katsuragi, I felt bad for her at the end.
 
 
Jun 2, 2019 10:29 PM

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i already knew what was going to happen because of the manga but damn.... what an episode. also a lot of people are recommending watching the directors cut?

@Rei366 now i'm confused if i initially watched the director's cut versions of those episodes haha. is there a way to tell off the bat?
Modified by retr0ali, Jun 4, 2019 6:34 AM
 
Jul 28, 2019 8:50 PM

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retr0ali said:
i already knew what was going to happen because of the manga but damn.... what an episode. also a lot of people are recommending watching the directors cut?

@Rei366 now i'm confused if i initially watched the director's cut versions of those episodes haha. is there a way to tell off the bat?


Well, if you watched on Netflix, the episode is 29min instead of the standard 23-24 minutes, so I'm under the assumption it was the DC? Also interested if anyone knows the actual answer.

 
Aug 4, 2019 11:09 AM

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HellzBellz82 said:
retr0ali said:
i already knew what was going to happen because of the manga but damn.... what an episode. also a lot of people are recommending watching the directors cut?

@Rei366 now i'm confused if i initially watched the director's cut versions of those episodes haha. is there a way to tell off the bat?


Well, if you watched on Netflix, the episode is 29min instead of the standard 23-24 minutes, so I'm under the assumption it was the DC? Also interested if anyone knows the actual answer.



I wasn't watching on Netflix, but it did end up being the DC. (where I was watching it)
 
Aug 22, 2019 4:36 AM
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I remember when I watched this episode back in the day (must have 1999) it felt like a gift from heaven. Finally, finally much needed explanations on to the background of everything that is going on. And while the puzzle is far from complete, you get enough to get a pretty good idea of how things ended up being like they are.
And people on this thread, lol, saying it's just boring explanations...did they even watch the same thing? There's drama galore, arrests, interrogations conspiracies, love triangles, suicide, infanticide, execution of a major character and cute teenage Ritsu-chan in a high school uniform. Oh and Gendo has always been an asshole.

The voice acting is out of this world too. Misato's seiyuu crying at the end and Megumi Hayshibara doing both Yui Ikari as well as child Rei...amazing.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
Aug 29, 2019 10:24 AM

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Farabeuf said:
I remember when I watched this episode back in the day (must have 1999) it felt like a gift from heaven. Finally, finally much needed explanations on to the background of everything that is going on. And while the puzzle is far from complete, you get enough to get a pretty good idea of how things ended up being like they are.
And people on this thread, lol, saying it's just boring explanations...did they even watch the same thing? There's drama galore, arrests, interrogations conspiracies, love triangles, suicide, infanticide, execution of a major character and cute teenage Ritsu-chan in a high school uniform. Oh and Gendo has always been an asshole.

The voice acting is out of this world too. Misato's seiyuu crying at the end and Megumi Hayshibara doing both Yui Ikari as well as child Rei...amazing.


Unfortunately it's a different generation... Evangelion doesn't hit today's audience like when we were in the 90's and 00's. For me, it's still a masterpiece.
 
Sep 15, 2019 10:50 PM

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Finally back at this!

Damn, there's just so many information. It's no wonder they had to do this in 29 minutes instead of the usual 24-25 mins.

The biggest is the formation of Seele and Nerv as well as Ritsuko's mother "Akagi" developing "Magi", having feelings to Ikari as well as her death by suicide due to "killing" Rei.

Still, it is mysterious as to how Ikari found Rei. It's obvious is probably something to do with Yui. They even share the same Seiyuu after all.

Fuyutsuki and Ikari meeting as well as how the 2nd impact happen. Seems Ikari already predicted all of this.

The confusing part is how many organizations keep forming. Project E (Adam), Seele and now was slowly transformed into Nerv and the Human Instrumentality Project.

Feel sorry for Katsuragi. Kaiji was probably killed due to him already leaking too many info. Unless he faked his own death which is possible, but unlikely :\

 
 
Sep 18, 2019 7:46 PM

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retr0ali said:
HellzBellz82 said:


Well, if you watched on Netflix, the episode is 29min instead of the standard 23-24 minutes, so I'm under the assumption it was the DC? Also interested if anyone knows the actual answer.



I wasn't watching on Netflix, but it did end up being the DC. (where I was watching it)
where did you guys watched the director's cut episodes?

you know who i am. you don't know where i am. and you'll never see me coming.
 
Sep 20, 2019 3:03 AM

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Rei_III said:
@castbound123 On Netflix for most recent answers here, on the European "Platinum Edition" (DVD set with the TV cuts on a bonus DVD, 10€ ) for me.
Thanks for the info man! However, the one that I downloaded online was already Dc eps. I've researched that when the ep's you've watched are 26+ mins longer than the normal then they're surely dc's already :)

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Oct 6, 2019 7:16 AM

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I think Rei is Yui's clone or something even more horrible

It is a sad day, seems like it's raining. What a terrible day to rain :(
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Nov 11, 2019 10:38 PM

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Great episode, it was good to see more about the past of the characters.

Things are still confusing. So Rei is a clone or something like that from Shinji's mother. At least that was what I understood. But that kid Rei it's the same that the present Rei, or it's another clone?

So they knew that the second impact was going to happen. I wonder if Adam was as human creation. Also, they mentioned a third impact that will happen, this is interesting.

I still have no idea of what the Dead Sea Scroll is. It's like a instruction of what to do to prevent the third impact? And who wrote it? I have so many questions.

@Rei_III
Thanks for the informations, it was really useful. I always read yours posts in every episode topic, they are very informative. Since you know so much about Evangelion, I would like to ask you something.

I always see people suggesting how to watch the ending of the series. Some say to watch the 26 episodes and then End of Evangelion, but there are people that say to watch until episode 24, then watch End of Evangelion, and finally watch episode 25-26. There is people who say to skip episodes 25 and 26 entirely, but for me this is out of question, since I want to watch everything. I was thinking to watch in the conventional way, all 26 episodes and then End of Evangelion. What do you recommend?
Modified by ViniSD, Nov 13, 2019 7:22 PM
 
 
Jan 11, 9:09 PM

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Sure, we left off last episode with Shinji, seemingly by sheer willpower, rematerializing Dr. Manhattan style. Great time to completely shift gears and dive into a backstory episode... i guess. No need to see any characters except Misato react to this... sigh. Also, I guess every single character needs a romantic subplot, huh? Even the deputy director, with his feelings for Shinji's mum. At least we're starting to see glimpses of the truth about NERF and the EVAs and Rei, but man, this show is not dope at directing its energy
Modified by LordQuaz, Jan 11, 9:20 PM
 
Apr 6, 10:29 AM

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Like mother like daughter i hate both of them now stupid bitches holy... rip Kaji tho, things are getting interesting now.
 
Apr 8, 7:13 PM

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So we're the Architects of our own demise.

Once again the only true enemy of man is mankind.

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Jun 22, 8:46 AM

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HUGE info dump this ep. But extremely interesting. Seeing Shinjis mums face from the side I thought immediately she must have some sort of connection with Rei.

Rei saying the thing about hags was pretty creepy. I'm not sure if she is a clone or what the go is but clearly there's a memory connection there.

Rajis phone message was quite sad.

I feel like there is still some sort of major plot twist that hasn't been revealed just yet.
 
Jul 18, 4:46 PM

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(original version)

last episode ended with kaji and misato getting it on and this one starts with the abduction of the vice commander and goes on to have loads of flashbacks..... so......... nothing about how shinji basically went to the astral plane and was reborn from the eva? because that wasn't the craziest thing to happen ever?? yeah sure this kind of thing must happen all the time, nothing more to discuss guys! just another normal day at work! move along!

misato best girl <3

and gendo worst guy

how did yui die exactly? and omgggg is rei a "rebirth" of yui??? that's so freaky, no wonder gendo is so attached to her and rei is so responsive to him

i guess this means rip kaji :(
 
Sep 23, 1:50 PM

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(director's cut)

so over the last month or so i've been rewatching this (very slowly looool) and i still absolutely adore it. ticks so many of my boxes. i've rewatched the first 20 episodes, i'm going to watch the director's cut of 21-24 then death & rebirth then end of evangelion just to see everything i can :):):)

i'll be totally honest, i don't remember all of the original episode woops so i don't know which scenes are new. but as far as i can tell, the scenes before the opening song, fuyutsuki as an underground doctor, and yui, fuyutsuki and shinji by the lake are new, i don't remember those.

also is yui's voice actress the same as rei's? they sound quite similar to me? it would make sense if it was

this time watching the show i warmed a bit more to kaji, it would have been great to know a bit more about him but his heart seemed to be in the right place and it was a shame that he died

misato is still my number one girl i love her <3 and gendo you suck <3<3<3
 
Oct 4, 11:29 PM

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So Kaji is Dead right?
Damn... R.I.P.

Quite a backstory to Nerv man!
--AbiSa--
 
 
Oct 13, 1:47 PM

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I hope I didn't make mistake by watching director's cut which was an amazing thing. Of course the amount of information that we get in this episode is unbelievably high and understanding everything is just not an easy at all task.

Nerv is a very shady place to work at, the amount of creepy expierimenting and mysteries just make this one hell of organization
 
Nov 9, 1:34 AM

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Year 2000, Antarctica.
Gendo.
Its walking. Spreading its wings.
Dat white body.
Top secret.
Kaji.
Misato.
Kaji kidnapped the vice commander?
Fuyutsuki.
Year 1999, Kyoto.


What an episode. Rei got mouth. Called Akagi obaasan. lol So Gendo left on the 11th and Second Impact happened the next day on Sept 12th. Now we know when it happened. And this is why Akagi called Gendo a baka. As expected. Shinji Rokubungi. Has a nice ring to it. lol
If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have).
 
Nov 16, 6:35 PM

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watching the director's cut

1) the way that Gendo looks at Fuyutsuki at the stair scene in Antarctica, even in bellow position, is pure disdain towards the former teacher

2) it's not easy to understand what Yui saw in Gendo

3) "Ba-san"

4) That last massage from Kaji.....................................

5) I don't know what to think about Shinji........... REALLY!

6) CAUSE IT WAS HARD TO SEE MISATO CRYING! HOW HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO COMFORT HER???????????????????? HE DIDN'T EVEN ASK WHAT HAPPENED TO SHOW THAT HE CARES FOR HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!
 
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