Fullmetal Alchemist
| I was just going through the comments in the episode thread 4 and have read how many people have been disappointed with this season. I think a lot of the complaints I am seeing revolve around how things are being rushed in this compared to the original anime airing, how the episodes don't have the same flair as the first season did. To some degree, I agree with the view that yes, compared to the first anime, the early episodes of FMA: Brotherhood don't hold the same "umph" factor as they originally did. Most of that obviously being the reason that you already know what to expect in terms of plot in the early going. I think a lot of people who don't read the manga don't realize that the plot in the manga doesn't really diverge drastically from the original anime until after chapter 20ish in the manga. Yes, there are many differences in the early going as well, some small, and some not so small, but in terms of overall plot, its pretty much the same. I think Brotherhood feels "rushed" is because the anime producers probably understand that fans of the series have already seen the first anime aircast, and thus, will gloss over the nitty-gritty details in the early going, but are still going to air the important parts of the early plot (for new viewers). However, to get to the new material asap, they are going to rush it a bit. A prime example of this was the subplot concerning the Alchemist Tucker and his daughter. I, for one, felt that this subplot was done much better in the first anime than in Brotherhood, but the way they presented it in Brotherhood gave new viewers to FMA the gist of what happened and how much of an affect it had on Edward. So basically, I don't anticipate any drastic plot diversions for quite some time (given that they don't really happen till after chapter 20-something in the manga). I just want people to understand that - at least the ones out there who are wondering where and when the differences will be coming. |
Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. ^ This. |
Festerman said: Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. ^ This.  |
| I will quote it too for its truth... KuroNoMango said: Festerman said: Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. ^ This. Some people just don't have patience. We should all wait till this new series offically reaches the material that was not covered in the first series (the stuff after vol 7/chap 20-ish) BEFORE we all start to pass judgement on this remake. Afteral, the main purpose of this "remake" was to showcase all the later material that wasn't covered in the first series. Then afterwards people can say which version they liked better. |
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Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. Exactly. People are judging the new series to early. I think these episodes are only for remember some important things and correct the "mistakes" of the old serie. |
Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. However I doubt majority will be able to do that... Seriously. Criticism? I saw two maybe three people who could actually word out what they do not like and what they like. Nitpicking, trolling, meme-replication - whatever you want to call it. its not a criticism...at least not a constructive one... So yes. Expect more "FMa1, liek did that moar emotional" or "rusheeeeed" comments in episode threads... "rushed" and "pacing" complaints seem to have become the keyword for the show. The show could cover ONE PANEL in one episode and still some fool would go "rusheeed". |
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| If we pretend the first series never happened, the manga never happened and that FMA: Brotherhood is an original show, then this anime has a quite good storyline so far. But that's a big if... Unfortunately, the first series were there and were better than Brotherhood. So far, at least... Now it's own, FMA: Brotherhood is good but you just can't like it when you do know that they leave so much out of it. You can't stop yourself from comparing it with the first one and that's the only truth. |
| Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature! |
kodial said: Now it's own, FMA: Brotherhood is good but you just can't like it when you do know that they leave so much out of it. You can't stop yourself from comparing it with the first one and that's the only truth. As I said in another thread - its actually a first time I see people being sad that filler storylines are being left out this time... |
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Fai said: Seriously. Criticism? I saw two maybe three people who could actually word out what they do not like and what they like. Nitpicking, trolling, meme-replication - whatever you want to call it. its not a criticism...at least not a constructive one... Actually, yes, criticism. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are wording their arguments and not simply "trolling," as its called. Capellabun said: In order to enjoy this series you're really going to have to treat the first series and the FMA manga/brotherhood as two separate stories or two separate retelling of the story. This could be it. But again, I really think the problem lies in people already knowing the first part of the story and comparing what the this anime aircast is doing to the first anime aircast. As people above have said, once people stop the comparison, it'll be okay. A lot of people do feel its rushed. And I can see why. I think people fail to understand that the producers are trying to quickly pass over the first part of the story that was already animated in the first anime aircast - without omitting anything significant from the plot for new viewers - so they can get to new manga material asap. |
Fai said: Expect more "FMa1, liek did that moar emotional" or "rusheeeeed" comments in episode threads... "rushed" and "pacing" complaints seem to have become the keyword for the show. The show could cover ONE PANEL in one episode and still some fool would go "rusheeed". Hahaha, very true. Did people even realize that they added footage to the Nina chapter and extended it? 50 pages isn't much to animate. :P I guess if it doesn't make people cry then it's not good enough for them. |
| If you liked the manga then it's almost a given that you're gonna like the beginning of a series that's supposed to follow the manga. If you haven't read the manga but had watched the first season then it's a given that your gonna think the beginning of this is utter crap. If you haven't read the manga or seen the first season then your basically open minded. So honestly I don't see a reason why threads like this one should be made right now. It's only encouraging more opinions on why or why not this series blows or rocks. New people will feel like they need to state their opinions and then the argument over whether this show sucks will continue in a more aggressive state. So in staid of getting people to relax your really causing them to amplify their opinions. Good job :P |
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| Never said that I wanted to see the first series again with new animation or something like that. But I just wanted to see more from the new anime not less. It's true that I haven't read the manga and I have only the first series to compare it with, I'll keep insisting on saying that it felt rushed and that they leave much out of it. That's because I expected to see more like the first episode of Brotherhood, completely new footage. But instead what I'm watching is a rough summary of the first series. So correct me if I am wrong but it feels like to me that the creators of Brotherhood wanna quickly be done with the events that happened in the fist FMA series and go on to continue normally from the point and on that the first series didn't cover, ain't that right? Now although I can't wait to see what really did happen in the manga, still rushing it up to that point, sux. However, I have to make myself clear, it's not that I hate Brotherhood because of that, I still like it and I enjoyed watching every episode so far. I'm rating it with 7 and by anyone's standards, 7 still means it's good and that's what it is. So I might be criticizing the show from that point of view but I am absolutely not condemning it for that. Besides with an average score of 0.94 lower than the normal average of people here, I think I'm kinda strict with my ratings. Anyway, here's a little something that in this show annoyed me the most. And I want to ask all of you FMA manga readers if in the manga, it happened like the first or the second FMA series: Scar, in the first series, he was confused about what was happening to him and what were the meaning of those tattoos in his arm. He realized his Mission, when he accidentally killed the Nina Chimera. In the second series, Scar appears to be determined and sure of himself from the start, he first kills Gran and then proceeds to kill Tucker and the Chimera without so much as having a single doubt about what he's meant to do. Now I'm not gonna criticize a character of an ongoing series, since he has yet to develop completely, I'm just gonna say that I liked the Scar of the first series better to this point. However, which Scar is the real one? Real meaning the way he was in the manga. First or Second series' Scar? Knowing that, is going to change my mind of FMA a bit. |
| Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature! |
| Not compare it to the first series? Considering that's it's a stone-cold remake made only a few years later by the same production studio and talent? That's lunacy. Of course it will be compared. And should be. And if it blatantly copies the first season, except does the individual stories much worse, right down to the animation and music, (which it has so far) then it deserves to be called out. Besides, if it weren't for the original, FMA2 would have an average rating of about 7.5 right now, NOT 8.5, if you want to go down that road... |
ShaolinRibiero said: Not compare it to the first series? Considering that's it's a stone-cold remake made only a few years later by the same production studio and talent? That's lunacy. Of course it will be compared. And should be. Ok, then let's compare all the anme made by that studio. "It should be" going by your train of thoughts. ShaolinRibiero said: And if it blatantly copies the first season, except does the individual stories much worse, right down to the animation and music, (which it has so far) then it deserves to be called out. So FMA1 copied manga and did everything worse, right down to animation and music, thus it was bad :P Overall FMA2 does everything a lot better than FMA1 - no parrots, no easter rabbits, no wife dolls, no evil overgrown Gran, no "We Solid-Snake-id Ishval" bs, no alternate world of HITLAR bs. So far FMA2 did a great job. ;] ShaolinRibiero said: Besides, if it weren't for the original, FMA2 would have an average rating of about 7.5 right now, NOT 8.5, if you want to go down that road... If its not for overgrown nostalgia for something that was for some "a first animu", FMA1 would have 6.75 rating and not 8.75, if you want to go down that road... |
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Fai said: Overall FMA2 does everything a lot better than FMA1 - no parrots, no easter rabbits, no wife dolls, no evil overgrown Gran, no "We Solid-Snake-id Ishval" bs, no alternate world of HITLAR bs. That's insane. The FMA1 episodes that have been copied so far in FMA2 are far inferior to their originals in every way. I've mentioned why this is the case in the individual episode discussions, and can copy and paste my arguments if you'd like. Also, your opinion is very, very much in the minority right now. It may change in the future, but right now, most people would prefer the original FMA1 interpretations, which is reflected in both the discussion topics as well as the overall rating. Also, I thought we were talking about FMA1 the series, no? The FMA movie, where the Hitler allusions occur, is a completely separate can of worms. Fai said: ShaolinRibiero said: Besides, if it weren't for the original, FMA2 would have an average rating of about 7.5 right now, NOT 8.5, if you want to go down that road... If its not for overgrown nostalgia for something that was for some "a first animu", FMA1 would have 6.75 rating and not 8.75, if you want to go down that road... 95 plus percent of the people who rated the original would laugh at and disagree with you, myself included. Besides, older shows tend to get much lower ratings than new ones simply because of less colorful, more dull animation, and generally less exciting production values. Ultimately, you do realize that FMA2 is basically a way for Bones to milk their biggest cash cow in a horrible economic climate, especially for anime DVD sales, right? Check out all the other re-makes and adaptations of super popular franchise properties being produced nowadays, from a re-make of DBZ, to a slew of HnK gaidens, etc, etc. Capellabun said: I will say though that if you're really hating the way this series is being done now and the changes that are occurring in it then maybe it's best to drop it because I'm doubting that you'll enjoy the rest of it either.... You totally missed the point most people are making by comparing the two series. If a studio decided to make a series in 2010 called "Cowboy Hebop", copy 22 of the original episodes, except have them be worse, and make 4 "new episodes" that were all dreadful, would that be a good anime? Well, 22 of those episodes would still be decent or good, if worse, but when viewed in context against its original, should blind copying be rewarded? |
ShaolinRibiero said: I've mentioned why this is the case in the individual episode discussions, and can copy and paste my arguments if you'd like. Also, your opinion is very, very much in the minority right now. It may change in the future, but right now, most people would prefer the original FMA1 interpretations, which is reflected in both the discussion topics as well as the overall rating. Minority? and? How shoudl that affect my opinion? ANd I saw all the "arguments", no need to re-paste "arguments" ;) ShaolinRibiero said: Also, I thought we were talking about FMA1 the series, no? The FMA movie, where the Hitler allusions occur, is a completely separate can of worms. Ed did end up in the "OMG NAZI OUR WORLD" in the tv series. Ep 40 was it? Don't remember since since the introduction of Dante I refused to take FMA1 seriously. ShaolinRibiero said: 95 plus percent of the people who rated the original would laugh at and disagree with you, myself included. Ultimately, you do realize that FMA2 is basically a way for Bones to milk their biggest cash cow in a horrible economic climate, especially for anime DVD sales, right? While I do realize that. I also realize the fact that FMA2 is basically a correct and better version of FMA. Why? Because it stays faithful to FMA manga which is 10x better than FMA1 in all of its emo glory. :) And oh please.... EVERY tv show is " is basically a way for Bones to milk their biggest cash cow in a horrible economic climate, especially for anime DVD sales, right". ShaolinRibiero said: If a studio decided to make a series in 2010 called "Cowboy Hebop", copy 22 of the original episodes, except have them be worse, and make 4 "new episodes" that were all dreadful, would that be a good anime? However thats not the case with FMA. They are not "making alternate version" they are making correct version. :) ShaolinRibiero said: Well, 22 of those episodes would still be decent or good, if worse, but when viewed in context against its original, should blind copying be rewarded? FMA manga is original. Thus FMA1 IS alternate story and FMA2 is original story. :) And yes - NOT adding the ridiculous people like Dante should be revarded. NOT adding the ridiculous "gate our world" concept should be rewarded. NOT over-adding the emo spice should be rewarded. NOT making Basque Grand into "I am big ridiculous and evil guy" should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous Rabbit-Tucker should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous Parrot-Boyfriend should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous "I makez dolls of my wife copies" should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous "red watar" concept should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous Frank Archer should be rewarded. NOT destroying Al's character should be rewarded. NOT making Al into a complete wimp who has to rely on his messed up brother should be rewarded. NOT adding brother incest romance should be rewarded. NOT adding muslim rape should be rewarded. Need I continue on why FMA2 directors should be rewarded?... |
AhenshihaelMay 3, 2009 3:41 AM
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Fai said: Minority? and? How shoudl that affect my opinion? ANd I saw all the "arguments", no need to re-paste "arguments" ;) Well, there's a lot to go over, but tell me how you think Episode 4 in FMA2 was better than Episode 6 in FMA1. Here's what I wrote, by comparison; "Episode 6 in FMA1 is one of my favorites. The reason for this is that YOU NEVER SEE IT COMING. Besides one or two glimpses of Tucker's anxiety for the test, there's none of the discussion of how poor he was, and how much he wants to avoid it as in Episode 4 of FMA2. Also, more of the episode is devoted to creating a very happy, breezy, idyllic feeling. It's just ridiculously sweet, and Ed and Al playing with Nina and the dog feels very natural and free. Here, it just feels way more predictable, and the atmosphere foreshadows what's going to happen. It doesn't have nearly the same shock value. If I hadn't seen FMA1, I would have liked this episode. But knowing what they did the first time around, and seeing how inferior this is just makes me shake my head. It also brings up another problem with the series; what's the point for the audience that has seen the original in seeing the same thing when they already know what's going to happen?" Keep in mind, I think Episode 4 is pretty good by itself, but when compared to its earlier version, it's far inferior. Fai said: Ed did end up in the "OMG NAZI OUR WORLD" in the tv series. Ep 40 was it? Don't remember since since the introduction of Dante I refused to take FMA1 seriously. Oh, Episode 50 in FMA1? You mentioned Hitler in the last quote, not just Nazis, which I was responding to, but yes, Ed briefly goes to our world, and sees a Zeppelin explode. (I don't even think there were any sightings of Nazis) And while I'm sure it wasn't in the manga, you know what? That particular episode...was really goddamn cool. It epitomized the consistently "surprising", mystery novel nature of the original series that made its final 22 or so episodes so awesome. But it's also besides the point. Don't you think that worst case scenario, summarizing everything that occurred before the manga and FMA1 diverged in a short OVA or movie would be best? Fai said: While I do realize that. I also realize the fact that FMA2 is basically a correct and better version of FMA. Why? Because it stays faithful to FMA manga which is 10x better than FMA1 in all of its emo glory. :) The saccharine emotions of FMA1 were annoying at times, certainly, but were they any worse than the hilariously misplaced arrogance and fake tough guy posturing we've seen thus far in FMA2? I say no. Besides, the last 20+ episodes of FMA1 were all action and suspense, no emo, and that's where the manga and anime sharply diverged, no? Fai said: EVERY tv show is " is basically a way for Bones to milk their biggest cash cow in a horrible economic climate, especially for anime DVD sales, right". By doing this with a bunch of REPEAT shows instead of an OVA or a movie, they get to bundle at least FIVE separate, longer DVDs, instead of a single OVA. They determined, thanks to their quants, that enough people would buy the five separate DVDs than the single one, and thus gain additional profit. The actual product suffers for this decision, but they "win" in the only place it matters. The check book. Fai said: FMA manga is original. Thus FMA1 IS alternate story and FMA2 is original story. :) And yes - NOT adding the ridiculous people like Dante should be revarded. Who is Dante? Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous "gate our world" concept should be rewarded. That was a thrilling, fantastic, and very original idea. I enjoyed it a lot. Fai said: NOT over-adding the emo spice should be rewarded. Well, it's been replaced by fake, artificial emotion spice, so no improvement there. Fai said: NOT making Basque Grand into "I am big ridiculous and evil guy" should be rewarded. So having no character (FMA2) is better than having him? And I thought he was brilliant in his role in the original. As it is, he's only had roughly thirty seconds of screen time in the new one, and that's it. Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous Rabbit-Tucker should be rewarded. I liked this. Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous Parrot-Boyfriend should be rewarded. I liked this too. Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous "I makez dolls of my wife copies" should be rewarded. What was that? Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous "red watar" concept should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous Frank Archer should be rewarded. Liked both of these. Fai said: NOT destroying Al's character should be rewarded. Huh? I'm really curious here. How is Al remotely different in the new series as opposed to the old one? I can't spot even the most minute difference. Fai said: NOT making Al into a complete wimp who has to rely on his messed up brother should be rewarded. Isn't that precisely what he is in FMA2 as well? Fai said: NOT adding brother incest romance should be rewarded. What?! Fai said: NOT adding muslim rape should be rewarded. Again, what?! Fai said: Need I continue on why FMA2 directors should be rewarded?... Well, half of what you wrote were enjoyable and well-thought out plot elements in the original, and the other half were complete non-sequitars that you really need to explain further. |
| Well considering how 95% of the voice actors in FMA2 are different from FMA1, it's hard not to consider the two series as completely different. @Fai, as of now, we don't actually know how loyal the FMA2 storyline will be to the manga. Sure, thus far we've already had a brief glimpse at the new main bad guy who isn't some crazy ex-wife named Dante, but THAT wasn't shown in the manga until VERY late, so already the directors have made changes. Not to mention I don't remember reading the 2 minute rampage of Father Cornhulk in the manga. PS - insert random water alchemist in first episode. As for FMA1, I personally think of it like this: for a 50 episode series produced decades before the manga was even close to finishing, the original directors did a fantastic job with coming up with their own interesting ending and wrapping things up, as opposed to the alternative abominations known as the WSJ ongoing anime series. With that said, it's also hard NOT to compare the two series when the plot is currently exactly identical. For episodes like the Tucker/Nina arcs, it's like going into the episode having read huge giant spoilers already. Think: "Snape kills Dumbledore", but replace with: "Scar kills Basque Grand, Tucker, Nina, and more!" FMA1 was a fantastic series in itself, however as Fai points out (and this is the only point I will agree with him on), its plot strays far too much from the manga to be considered canon. As for all of his other comments, half of the events he mentions don't even take place in FMA1 until much later, so it's rather ludicrous to fake award the FMA2 directors with anything at this point. I mean seriously, in terms of plotline, FMA1 and 2 are identical thus far except for that 3 second menacing appearance by the real antagonist, and of course the many miscellaneous details added or removed for extra effect and don't really alter the story. All in all, it just seems to me that you interpret any artistic liberties that the anime directors and producers take as blasphemous towards the original manga. Your extreme bias against non-canonical changes will (and probably already has) ruin a lot of anime for you. I mean seriously, you've already given Brotherhood a 10. Aside from the PROMISE of FMA2 being better than FMA1, at this point, from 5 episodes, you have no solid EVIDENCE of it yet, so I have no clue where you're getting your 10 from (this goes for a lot of people. I really don't understand people who rate their anime before it's even half done). PS @Shaolin...that "who is Dante" comment had better be a troll :p |
seiyuMay 3, 2009 5:03 AM
Haha, I am ridiculously bad with names. If Fai had written either the straightforward "Ed's father's first wife" or the more roundabout "old female alchemist who plays catchy musical tune", I would have remembered it. They should have called her "Dotty" or something. I wouldn't have forgotten it then! |
seiyu said: @Fai, as of now, we don't actually know how loyal the FMA2 storyline will be to the manga. All the interviews indicate that it will follow manga faithfully and cover all of it. thus far it was faithful enough, minus some minor inconsistencies. seiyu said: I hated it and will hate it forever. seiyu said: All in all, it just seems to me that you interpret any artistic liberties that the anime directors and producers take as blasphemous towards the original manga. Your extreme bias against non-canonical changes will (and probably already has) ruin a lot of anime for you. I mean seriously, you've already given Brotherhood a 10. Aside from the PROMISE of FMA2 being better than FMA1, at this point, from 5 episodes, you have no solid EVIDENCE of it yet, so I have no clue where you're getting your 10 from (this goes for a lot of people. I really don't understand people who rate their anime before it's even half done). I like Artistic liberties when they are good. For example I loved how Lust was handled in FMA1. I also liked, to an extent, the extended alchemist exam, although it SHOULD have ended like manga(and FMA2) to make it perfect. However the ones I listed were poorly executed, unneeded and ridiculous. Mizushima just went for "let's shock them!", which rarely worked more than making me fast-forward the scene. ShaolinRibiero said: Well, there's a lot to go over, but tell me how you think Episode 4 in FMA2 was better than Episode 6 in FMA1. FMA2 episode 4 had way more emotional impact. ----------------------------------------------------- In FMA1 we have an episode(if i remember correctly) dedicated to show how GOOD tucker is and how POOR MAN HE IS and HOW CUTE NINA IS. It feels forced - LOOK LOOK, A DOG, AND GIRL AND POOR FATHAR, BE SAD. Its so...sugary that before episode ends you are already waiting for something to happen. Its like first episode of Sokyou no Strain ED finds out what Tucker did/wants_to_do and rushes to his house, which completely ruins the Ninalexander revelation. Then we have a random Ninalexander chase through the streets where Scar(after suddenly deciding to be EBIL KILLAR) randomly meetsit and finishes it off. This was all in the past, when Ed was not even state alchemist, daduh how great that he faced an alchemist killed then. Next episode - Ed goes on through usual stuff and Nina is never mentioned again. 20 episodes latter: Rabbit Tucker: HAllllooooooooo~ ----------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- In FMA2 the thing that adds intensity is that atmosphere foreshadows that something bad will happen. At every moment you EXPECT something to happen, but nothing bad happens. You slowly put the parts of what really happened to Tucker's wife by yourself and during the "will you play with daddy tomorrow" you already know what will happen. Then you see Ninalexander. Curiosity of Ed. Ed haven't yet figured out what you have figured out. You see him amazed and then you see his realization. You are struck again by the facts you already confirmed. You see that slowly sink into Al and Ed. You see how Ed beats the Tucker, beating his own father in his mind too. You see just how unaffected and emotionless to that Tucker is. Then the Stairs scene comes in with my favourite line "We are not Gods and Certainly not Devils, we are humans....humans who could not save one little girl". The emotion, the sound of rain, the scenery of stairs, everything adds to the already existing impact. Then you see how Scar kills Tucker. Tears in Nina's eyes. She's crying for her bastard father, who never cared for him. Then Nina is killed too. You are left staring at the screen with blank mind and teary eyes. ---------------------------------------------------------- ShaolinRibiero said: Oh, Episode 50 in FMA1? You mentioned Hitler in the last quote, not just Nazis, which I was responding to, but yes, Ed briefly goes to our world, and sees a Zeppelin explode. (I don't even think there were any sightings of Nazis) And while I'm sure it wasn't in the manga, you know what? That particular episode...was really goddamn cool. It epitomized the consistently "surprising", mystery novel nature of the original series that made its final 22 or so episodes so awesome. ] That was a thrilling, fantastic, and very original idea. I enjoyed it a lot. No it was not "thrilling" or original. Along with Zeppelins its This trope old as humanity itself The only thing thrilling or good was LOLOURWORLD!Ed's death with the hand clap. Everything else there just caused "oh god damnit how ridiculous that is" thoughts for me. Mystery? You could have seen Dante being evil from a mile ago. The only "twist" was the LOLWUT of "lol unborn babies send you to nazi germany" twist. Everything else there was stretched out and twisted story I felt like fast-forwarding just so as to "get to the point" ShaolinRibiero said: But it's also besides the point. Don't you think that worst case scenario, summarizing everything that occurred before the manga and FMA1 diverged in a short OVA or movie would be best? They can't do that, considering that even the earlier chapters had many bad changes which would cause plot inconsistencies. ShaolinRibiero said: The saccharine emotions of FMA1 were annoying at times, certainly, but were they any worse than the hilariously misplaced arrogance and fake tough guy posturing we've seen thus far in FMA2? I say no. Hm, strange. I hated the "weak emo Ed" in FMA1. However "arrogant, half-evil, smirking tsundere Ed" from FMA manga made him one of my favourite characters of all times. ShaolinRibiero said: Besides, the last 20+ episodes of FMA1 were all action and suspense, no emo, and that's where the manga and anime sharply diverged, no? I'd say the last 20 or so episodes of FMA1 were only emo stuff: "OMG OUR WORLD IS LIEK SO FRACKED UP" "OMG LIEK ALCHEMY THEORY IS WRONG!" "OMG I KILLD MA MATHAR" "OMG IMA SCAR IMA KILLAR IMA SUICIDE NAO" "OMG IMASUICIDE TO SAVE MA BRATHAR" Thats the last 20 or so episodes of fma1. A negative outlook to the world, without any suspense or anything. It felt as if Mizushima began to hate the series and just decided to kill and frack up every good or decent character there. ShaolinRibiero said: By doing this with a bunch of REPEAT shows instead of an OVA or a movie, they get to bundle at least FIVE separate, longer DVDs, instead of a single OVA. Its not a repeat shows. And as I said, its impossible to do in "repeat shows" as there's just too much stuff different. ShaolinRibiero said: They determined, thanks to their quants, that enough people would buy the five separate DVDs than the single one, and thus gain additional profit. Thats logical. Thats how entire dvd market works. and? ShaolinRibiero said: The actual product suffers for this decision, but they "win" in the only place it matters. The check book. Well, this time it did not suffer. It was improved. ShaolinRibiero said: Who is Dante? Ridiculou_bitchy_body_swapping_maid - who was irritating, spent entire FMA1 creating ridiculous Xanathos roulletes instead of just hiring one alchemist to do the job, and would have lost way before the end episodes if not for her smarter subordinates. ShaolinRibiero said: Well, it's been replaced by fake, artificial emotion spice, so no improvement there. For me it was way more realistic and emotional in FMA2. FMA1 emphasized the "we are fracked up, we hate the world, let's die" too much....waaay tooo much... ShaolinRibiero said: So having no character (FMA2) is better than having him? And I thought he was brilliant in his role in the original. As it is, he's only had roughly thirty seconds of screen time in the new one, and that's it. Oh and here begins the "judging before the end" thing. He has a character. His character is ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous Rabbit-Tucker should be rewarded. I liked this. It was irritating, stupid and served no purpose except to show just how stupid Al is (This guy who wants me as Ph.Stone invites me to his haus? LOL WAI NOT?) His design was outrageously stupid. It was both ridiculous and funny (Easter Rabbit Tucker!). His change_of_heart was unconvincing and OOC for him. As well as the "Chimera-Nina" creations of his. And his "HUGE EVIL LAB WITH POT OF EVIL" Lol....ill just stop there about that. ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous Parrot-Boyfriend should be rewarded. I liked this too. If it was comedy or some mindless show like Elfhen Lied then ok. However OVERGROWN EBILPARROT OF DOOM was the first time I thoroughly hated FMA1. ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous "I makez dolls of my wife copies" should be rewarded. What was that? "Doll Alchemist" filler. "The little town is terrorized by countless dolls of a long deceased person, so Ed and Al go visit that person's husband who has title of DOLL ALCHEMIST, acts all CREEPY AND BAD and etc. Lol why not? Its not like he could have done all of that. Right?" its one of "ridiculous pre-exam fillers" anime aded in. Fake Elrics, Doll Alchemist, Birth of Hughes Baby and other bs. ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding the ridiculous "red watar" concept should be rewarded. NOT adding the ridiculous Frank Archer should be rewarded. Liked both of these. Red Water was LOLWUT material which was not even explained. Sorry but I can't take an EBIL TOMATO JUICE seriously. Never Will. Frank Archer was ridiculous evil guy who was evil. And then he got turned into terminator who was even more evil. How great that was...oh yes.... ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT destroying Al's character should be rewarded. Huh? I'm really curious here. How is Al remotely different in the new series as opposed to the old one? I can't spot even the most minute difference. FMA1 made Al into a fool who could not do anything without his brother and constantly clash against what Ed wants to do. A too-naive-for-his-age boy who could not do anything except "being mary sue who needs to be saved by his brotha"... ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT making Al into a complete wimp who has to rely on his messed up brother should be rewarded. Isn't that precisely what he is in FMA2 as well? FMA2 and Manga makes Al and Ed into EQUAL brothers. They both help each other. They both have smarts and power to use it. They both think for themselves and are more like brothers than incest-relationship-with-one-weak-and-stupid-an-one-savior ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding brother incest romance should be rewarded. What?! Unhealthy love of Elric Brothers. Refer to above. ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding muslim rape should be rewarded. Again, what?! Rose. Rose. Rose. Rose. Rose. Let's ShaolinRibiero said: Well, half of what you wrote were enjoyable and well-thought out plot elements in the original, and the other half were complete non-sequitars that you really need to explain further. Enjoyable only if someone wants to make fun of Mizushima.(who was a great director for first 25 episodes or so but after that something just clicked and he did random stuff, possibly hating everything around him) |
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| ^ Yikes, too much to read through, but it just seems a wide difference of opinion. Though I will state that I do agree with Shaolin that FMA1 did the Shou Tucker/Nina arc way better than in FMA: Brotherhood for pretty much the exact reasons he did state earlier. (And yes, I have also been reading the manga). Anyway, as I said earlier, once we get to the new material, then people should start saying yay or nay to whether they like Brotherhood. It's because FMA1 already covered the beginning - quite well imo - that Brotherhood right now seems kind of lackluster, as I personally think the producers are trying to get past this part asap, without alienating new viewers. |
| Nothing wrong with a little criticism. ShaolinRibiero said: Besides, if it weren't for the original, FMA2 would have an average rating of about 7.5 right now, NOT 8.5, if you want to go down that road... You're bloody well right. If there were no "original story", and all that existed were FMA1 and FMA2...FMA2 would be taking much more criticism up to this point. But, like many have said before, there is still much more material to cover, and it may be able to redeem itself. And as we have seen in the case of other series having new seasons, remakes, or alternate versions, they tend to automaically be rated much higher early on. That is a direct result of the high density of the dedicated fans watching it when it first comes out. So from the looks of it, the majority of the fans (as ShaolinRibiero pointed out) aren't taking as much of a liking towards this one. This series is taking a much bigger beating than one might think from first glance. |
DunkyMay 3, 2009 8:31 AM
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Deadpool135 said: You're bloody well right. If there were no "original story", and all that existed were FMA1 and FMA2...FMA2 would be taking much more criticism up to this point. That makes no sense, if there were no original story, FMA2 wouldn't exist because FMA2 is being aired with the goal of being faithful to that original story. |
PosseMay 3, 2009 8:56 AM
| It is hypothetical of course. I was expecting someone to have that silly reply though haha. |
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Deadpool135 said: It is hypothetical of course. I was expecting someone to have that silly reply though haha. Lol, it's the truth, not a silly reply, just an obvious one, which doesn't make it silly, what's the sense of doing a remake of something if you don't have anything to change? |
Fai said: EPIC POST Heh, we couldn't disagree more about FMA1. While I enjoyed the first 25 episodes, I thought they paled in comparison to the amazing final 27, which were easily a 10 for me. You, on the other hand, thought they were trash. That being said, I appreciate you explaining your views to such a great extent. Just a few things; Fai said: ShaolinRibiero said: Fai said: NOT adding brother incest romance should be rewarded. What?! Unhealthy love of Elric Brothers. Refer to above. Incest means sex between family members. And unless you're obsessed with gay-themed manga, there's no way you can visibly see such a relationship between the Elric brothers. Fai said: Let soldiers rape her... and riite she's alive after that.... like soldiers would leave her alive after that.... and oh look THA BABIEH TO OPEN THA GATE. Are you joking here? You find soldiers raping a woman and later leaving her inconceivable? Seriously? I mean, it's only happened millions of times in human history, of which there are countless accounts. While some of your criticism is reasonable, with things like the above, you're just really going overboard with your hatred towards the original for interpreting the material in a different manner than the manga did. |
| Well as for emotional impact, I find that the background music has a very strong effect on the mood. Oshima Michiru did a fantastic job composing for FMA1 (who doesn't like Batja), while I have yet to hear anything impressive from FMA2's composer, though it's still early. |
dravenxavier said: I don't see why everyone is trying to compare parts of the series that haven't even aired yet. I get that it's supposed to be a mange-true version, but really... I've never read the manga, so I'm going straight off of the two series on this, but FMA2 is really lacking something in my opinion to the first one. What happened to them and their mother seemed to be more skimmed over than anything, and really lacked the emotional impact that FMA1 seemed to have for me. I know one of the criticisms is the emo stature of FMA1, but I don't think that scenario is something that should be lacking in the emotional department. I'll also agree that the Nina/Tucker part also did not have the impact it did in FMA1. I'm also not a fan of the amount of goofy animation humor they try to force into this. In a lot of parts, it doesn't even seem natural to the flow of what's going on. And enough with the short jokes. I realize that short jokes and references to him being small, and confusion over whether he or his brother are the fullmetal alchemist were in FMA1, too, but these episodes are completely full of them, and it's actually really quite annoying. The manga readers above don't want to admit to this since they're so in love with the fact that this series is following the manga which is sad. Again this thread is pointless. It should never have been made. |
| ^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
ShaolinRibiero said: Not compare it to the first series? Considering that's it's a stone-cold remake made only a few years later by the same production studio and talent? That's lunacy. Of course it will be compared. And should be. And if it blatantly copies the first season, except does the individual stories much worse, right down to the animation and music, (which it has so far) then it deserves to be called out. Besides, if it weren't for the original, FMA2 would have an average rating of about 7.5 right now, NOT 8.5, if you want to go down that road... ^ This. |
| after the poor first episode and average next two, the last two have been much better so far i would say the first series was better but there has ONLY BEEN 5 EPISODES of a series that is going to be at least 50 episodes its kinda hard to compare at this stage. after another 5-10 episodes maybe |
DeathfireD said: If you liked the manga then it's almost a given that you're gonna like the beginning of a series that's supposed to follow the manga. If you haven't read the manga but had watched the first season then it's a given that your gonna think the beginning of this is utter crap. If you haven't read the manga or seen the first season then your basically open minded. That sums up everyone's stand right now. I haven't read the manga and loved the first season but the new season till now has been disappointing. Everyone supporting the new series in saying to forget about the first season, at the same time giving the excuse that things are being rushed keeping in mind that season 1 already showed these things. Honestly, so far the new season hasn't been as good as the first season(missing the smooth flow, the excellent music, better character development and the emotional as well as professional feeling). Also I really don't care how faithful it's being to the manga because that alone doesn't guarantee it's going to be a great series. It's got to improve and I hope it does. But it's only been 6 episodes(I have seen upto 5) and there's ample time to make things right. EDIT: @Fai, in your long posts what you have done basically is to compare the first season with the manga and not the new series (always coming up with the things you didn't like in the plot and the side stories which I didn't like very much either). Since many of us haven't read the manga, we are comparing the new season with the old one, not what things it would contain but how it is showing/presenting everything. If you can look at it that way, I'm sure you'll agree the new season hasn't been that good so far(but it's only 6 episodes anyway). |
SaptaMay 12, 2009 2:37 AM
Sapta said: EDIT: @Fai, in your long posts what you have done basically is to compare the first season with the manga and not the new series (always coming up with the things you didn't like in the plot and the side stories which I didn't like very much either). Since many of us haven't read the manga, we are comparing the new season with the old one, not what things it would contain but how it is showing/presenting everything. If you can look at it that way, I'm sure you'll agree the new season hasn't been that good so far(but it's only 6 episodes anyway). I am sorry but I won't agree. Brotherhood so far has fulfilled all my expectations and by the current episode (Ep6) I can already say that it blows the 52 episodes of FMA1 out of the water easily. Everything done in Brotherhood surpassed my expectations. Everything done in brotherhood was done in a way better way than FMA1 (how Lior was handled, how Tucker was handled, how Scar's introduction was handled, How "Mustang's Useless" was handled, how Nina was handled, how Armstrong was handled, how "comeback to Lior" was handled, how Marcoh was handled, how "home episode" was handled, The way exam was handled, the unfillered-pacing and, most importantly, non-generic manga-faithful character designs) I am totally in love with FMA2 so far and, frankly, if it will adapt all the manga, then it will stay with solid 10/10 in my list. And, for the record. I saw FMA1 first, then read the manga. |
AhenshihaelMay 12, 2009 2:57 AM
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| People will have different views, so let's keep it that way. A few things about the first season that weren't good- 1. It had many filler episodes (don't need to read the manga to say that) 2. Al was quite annoying. Other than that, it was awesome. The new season should be better because it would rectify these 2 faults of FMA1. Btw, is Mustang going to be crappy & useless in FMA2, i.e, more like a comic character? If so, that can ruin the series for me. |
Sapta said: 1. It had many filler episodes (don't need to read the manga to say that) 2. Al was quite annoying. I agree with that and more: 3) FMA1 was too dark for its own good at the moments. I have nothing against grim stories or darker mood overall, but FMA1 was way off-balanced in that aspect. It could battle Texnolyze on aspect on how fracked up the world and characters were at the end. Sapta said: Btw, is Mustang going to be crappy & useless in FMA2, i.e, more like a comic character? If so, that can ruin the series for me. Worry not about that. Mustang is nearly at the top with the "Crowning Moment of Awesome" count, with Armstrongs, Ed and Al ranking nearby. When compared to Manga!Mustang, FMA1 Mustang looks like FMA1!Al. |
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Fai said: FMA1 was too dark for its own good at the moments. I have nothing against grim stories or darker mood overall, but FMA1 was way off-balanced in that aspect. thank you! i think i understand now what's been bugging me about FMA2. i feel like that's the whole reason why i like FAM1 more than FMA2 (so far)! The dark mood made it so much better imo!!! |
p r o f i l e 👀 |
DeathfireD said: If you liked the manga then it's almost a given that you're gonna like the beginning of a series that's supposed to follow the manga. If you haven't read the manga but had watched the first season then it's a given that your gonna think the beginning of this is utter crap. If you haven't read the manga or seen the first season then your basically open minded. Ah, you forgot my group. I didn't like the manga but loved the first series. I usually read mangas from anime I like watching so I can get more details, etc. There was just something about the FMA manga that didn't grab me so I dropped it. Currently, I don't like Brotherhood. However, I'm pushing through because I know it will change paths and eventually have a different storyline. I'm curious how that goes. Capellabun said: I think the best thing for most people to do is to stop comparing this to the first series. I would tend to agree with this statement but I'd change it to include people need to stop comparing mangas to anime and realize they are two different mediums. Due to budget restraints, time restraints and a whole slew of other things, tv series have to take shortcuts and make changes that don't have to occur in the written word. For me, it's a waste of time to watch and read something that's identical. I love seeing the differences and hope that the differences help expand the storyline. |
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Capellabun said: that's why i said so far :) also, in the latest episode, I noticed that reconnecting Ed's nerves to his automail didn't seem as painful as it did in FMA1Naruleach said: Fai said: FMA1 was too dark for its own good at the moments. I have nothing against grim stories or darker mood overall, but FMA1 was way off-balanced in that aspect. thank you! i think i understand now what's been bugging me about FMA2. i feel like that's the whole reason why i like FAM1 more than FMA2 (so far)! The dark mood made it so much better imo!!! I have to say, we're only on episode 6...how can you compare that the mood from the first series is any darker when we're only at the episodes the first series covered which are pretty much the same in terms of mood. While this may cover the manga this doesn't mean that the mood won't turn any darker as I'd say a lot of chapters are far from light hearted. |
p r o f i l e 👀 |
| For the great love of people, wait until Greed's arc comes in, and it all changes from there. I'm waiting for that. I never compared the two. I expected everything from the start. The fast pacing is great. I'm glad that it's skipping over the obvious arcs, which is basically posting the arc as one episode like the Lior and Tucker arcs. Naruleach said: Capellabun said: that's why i said so far :) also, in the latest episode, I noticed that reconnecting Ed's nerves to his automail didn't seem as painful as it did in FMA1Naruleach said: Fai said: FMA1 was too dark for its own good at the moments. I have nothing against grim stories or darker mood overall, but FMA1 was way off-balanced in that aspect. thank you! i think i understand now what's been bugging me about FMA2. i feel like that's the whole reason why i like FAM1 more than FMA2 (so far)! The dark mood made it so much better imo!!! I have to say, we're only on episode 6...how can you compare that the mood from the first series is any darker when we're only at the episodes the first series covered which are pretty much the same in terms of mood. While this may cover the manga this doesn't mean that the mood won't turn any darker as I'd say a lot of chapters are far from light hearted. It only looks less painful because you expect it to happen. Everyone knows what's going to happen next so comparing FMA1 to FMA2 is just plain old ridiculous. FMA2 has just began, so comparing both is just blasphemous. Let's just wait for another 5-10 episodes and see if it gets darker for all of us to enjoy. |
BlackAssassinMay 16, 2009 2:28 AM
| My thoughts thus far: Since Hajime no Ippo has got me back in the anime mood, I decided to have a more in-depth look at the new FMA series. I started by rewatching episode one, moved onto episode two and I then watched the third episode this morning. The first episode is still fan service rubbish no matter how I look at it. A throwaway villain, cameo appearances for all the main goodies (which screwed up the the continuity) and the usual FMA in-jokes about each characters quirks. Very poor filler, visuals aside. The second episode was also something of a failure. The first reason it failed is, in the manga, the brothers past doesn't get revealed in detail until around chapter 23. It seems like the animation team are determined to make changes where possible, even though I thought the idea behind the series was to create a perfect adaptation now that there's more material to work with than when the first series was created. But my main issue was with how rushed the episode was - one second Edward's mother got introduced, the next was a shot of her grave and talk of her dying from a disease. Where as I cared about her death in the first series because time was spent before killing her off, I felt nothing this time around. So, in short, the episode was neither faithful to the order of events in the manga or very good. The third episode - the episode the series should've opened with - was the most faithful to date. Not that that's saying a lot. The animation team still decided to randomly change certain elements for no reason whatsoever, doing things like making Rose point her gun at Edward and shoot Al and having the priest turn into the hulk for a retarded filler battle. Why couldn't they just be faithful to the sodding manga!? I really, REALLY don't get the point of this series. I thought it was created in order for there to be a REAL FMA anime, yet it opened with a 100% filler episode and hasn't been very faithful in the other two episodes. It seems they just don't care about what was covered in the first series and are trying to get the early sections out of the way, damaging the story by rushing as they do so. Right now I'm giving it 7/10. It looks nice, it has the FMA characters and story...but those plus points are the only good so far. Not what I'd hoped for. |
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