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Apr 26, 2009 5:14 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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I felt sorry for Jury, I hope she gets what she wants.

Aug 31, 2009 8:03 AM
#2

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That scene with Shiori making an asshole of herself was phenomenal. I can't believe she cried in front of the whole school.

I am dying to know what Anthy is trying to tell Utena.

Oh shit Ruka, is crazy.

Wow, phenomenal. I love how differently everything happens to each character. The Juri end scene of the battle was amazing.

Fantastic ending. This episode was amazing.
Nov 14, 2010 4:49 PM
#3

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Brilliant and extremely heart-breaking episode.

I love Jury, she's pretty amazing and pathetic at the same time =/
頭脳は子供、見た目は大人! ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ
Mar 17, 2011 10:29 PM
#4

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Jury is probably one of my favorite characters in the series thus far. Great episode.

ExquisiteDefect said:


I am dying to know what Anthy is trying to tell Utena.



As am I.
Mar 17, 2011 11:36 PM
#5

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the one i felt sorry for the most is Ruka. For a person who appeared in such a short time, he really made an impact on Juri's life, Shiori's too.

It really made me cry when it shows Juri and Ruka standing out in the rain and Juri is shown looking up in the sky.

Then we learn at the end that a boy dies (possibly Ruka), who wanted to show Juri to believe in miracles and pretty much free her from being controlled by her own emotions, mainly for Shiori.

it's like this, Ruka loves Juri, but yet Juri loves Shiori. Shiori loves Ruka, but Ruka is in love with Juri. Pretty sad and heartbreaking episode indeed.
Jul 3, 2011 4:15 AM
#6
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I cried at the end of this episode.
I expected that Ruka would have some feelings for Jury, but I surely did not expect this to happen. I felt sorry for them both.
For Ruka, who knew he didn't have much time left but still tried to help the girl he loves, even if in her eyes he appeared as an asshole. And for Jury, because of her relationship with that damned Shiory, and because she couldn't appreciate or see the love Ruka had for her.

I'm glad Ruka was not "bad" like the rest of the guys in this anime. He was actually kinda sweet!
Jul 9, 2011 7:42 PM
#7

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Wow, that episode completely turned what I thought of Ruka on it's head. Probably the one guy who wasn't a total bastard, aside from Miki of course.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

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Aug 5, 2011 10:46 PM
#8

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wowww. is there a need for shirt-open-touga to troll everyone at this point?
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Aug 9, 2011 3:32 PM
#9

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Why Ruka wasn't in the Rose Bride dress? I think it would look nice on him
Aug 9, 2011 11:53 PM

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Renato said:
Why Ruka wasn't in the Rose Bride dress? I think it would look nice on him

You beat me to it.
Aug 17, 2011 9:25 AM

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always get sad ending in Jury focused story... looks like Ruka did all these for Jury

funny it has to be Touga to call the car in
Nov 1, 2011 8:31 PM

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aelove said:
wowww. is there a need for shirt-open-touga to troll everyone at this point?
Yes. Touga will not rest until he strips shirtless for everyone he knows.

Renato said:
Why Ruka wasn't in the Rose Bride dress? I think it would look nice on him
Seriously :)

Everyone's talking about how much they like Jury, but her obsession with Shiori just annoys the heck out of me. Ruka was a really good guy though, I liked him even when they were trying to paint him as a bastard. It just felt sort of off to me and now it all makes sense.
I don't think he actually died. The characters woul'd probably know for sure if he did, right? D:

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Nov 1, 2011 10:18 PM
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Juri/Ruka forever! Though, I know she probably would never return his feelings T_T

I don't know why many people hate him and ship Juri/Shiori. Shiori is more of a bitch that Nanami would ever be, Juri is noble and Ruka risked his life to free the woman that he loved; he deserves her. At least Juri is now over her.

Ruka is not dead. Juri's words at the end make it obvious that the shadow girls had trolled us into thinking that he was. Besides, who would Juri be addressing at the end if it wasn't an alive Ruka?
Nov 2, 2011 12:06 AM

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Raven_Shinobi said:
Juri/Ruka forever! Though, I know she probably would never return his feelings T_T

I don't know why many people hate him and ship Juri/Shiori. Shiori is more of a bitch that Nanami would ever be, Juri is noble and Ruka risked his life to free the woman that he loved; he deserves her. At least Juri is now over her.

Ruka is not dead. Juri's words at the end make it obvious that the shadow girls had trolled us into thinking that he was. Besides, who would Juri be addressing at the end if it wasn't an alive Ruka?
Completely agreed! Oh, Juri really is over her? That's good to hear :) I liked Juri, but whenever she got pissed off at Ruka because of Shiori, it made me really mad at her.

I thought there was a possibility she was talking to the dead like they often do in anime, but I guess not. Those sneaky shadow girls.

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Nov 8, 2011 10:33 AM
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I forgot to mention that in the manga Juri returns Ruka's feelings, which makes Ruka/Juri pretty much canon in that version of Utena. As for Ruka's fate in there, it's ambiguous; Touga tells her that he died, but Juri doesn't believe him.

In the end, what Ruka managed to accomplish was to reverse the situation for Juri and Shiori: instead of Juri being hung-up on her, Shiori is now the one looking up to her. As whether they'll end up together, Juri hints in later episodes that she was over her, but there's official art that suggests that they had at least let bygone be bygone. Maybe it's the anti-Juri/Shiori in me, but I'd take Juri's statement to Utena later on that she was over her.
Dec 6, 2011 3:40 PM

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I really need to know what Anthy needs to tell Utena and who Anthy loves! Agh! This is so frustrating! Must find out what is going on!
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Dec 7, 2011 2:23 AM
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angelfire892 said:
I really need to know what Anthy needs to tell Utena and who Anthy loves! Agh! This is so frustrating! Must find out what is going on!


Spoilers for interview by staff in the booklet that came with the Student Council collection:

Jan 3, 2012 1:16 AM

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I think Ruka is dead and he tried to use the little bit of time he had left to "gain the power to grant miracles" to help Juri escape Shiori.
Jan 17, 2012 7:19 AM
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Wow! I came across an awesome post in the Ohtori.nu forum by Razara that explains the three chairs symbolism in this episode, which made me look at the Juri/Shiori/Ruka triangle in a new light:

(I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this post to get as long as it is. Just ignore me, if you want. I'm just rambling on about chairs...)

If I'm not mistaken, the chair symbolism is a way of showing who loves who throughout that episode. Shiori's chair (the top right chair) faces Ruka's chair, (the bottom chair,) which faces Juri's chair (the top left chair,) which faces Shiori's chair.

At the beginning of the episode, we see Shiori's chair facing Ruka's chair, but Ruka's chair is facing away from hers. Later we see Juri sitting in her chair. She continues to look in Shiori's direction even as she tells Utena that she it's between Shiori and Ruka, and that she won't get involved. She finally looks away from Shiori's chair as she says, "I have no right to," meaning that the only reason why she isn't getting involved is because she feels that she feels as though has no right to. She walks away from her own chair as Utena asks if that's how she really feels, she is turning her back to her true feelings.

Later, we see Ruka sitting in his own chair. He faces Juri as she tells him to take Shiori back, but turns away from Shiori's chair as thinks over her request. He hands up and begins to walk in the direction opposite to Shiori's chair as he says mean things about Shiori. After Juri attacks him, he pins her to the wall. The interesting thing is that when the camera angle goes to a higher level, we see that Ruka is forcing her against the wall so that he is facing his chair, and not Shiori's.

During the duel with Juri and Utena, we see Shiori, sitting in her chair looking sadly at Ruka's chair. (I'm going to go ahead and add a disclaiming on this next part, because I'm not 100% certain that I'm right about this.) You'll notice that the way Shiori is sitting is identical to the way that Juri is sitting the commonly seen picture where Shiori stole that boy from Juri.

"Juri, she's a fool. She doesn't realize that you get miracles only by standing off the sacrifices of others. Yet miracles only come to people like her! Don't you find that unfair, Juri?!"

To be honest, I can't help but think that that line relates to Juri as well, what with the identicle way that they are sitting. If I'm correct, then "Believe in miracles" means to believe that her love will be received. Juri does not believe in miracles, but she yearns for them. In other words, she does not believe that her feelings will ever be returned, but she yearns for them to be. Her goal to obtain miracles means to have her loved be returned, and whenever miracles are discussed that is what it means. It is the "miracle of love."

So, what does Ruka mean? Think of it this way, each chair is facing away from one other. As long as each chair faces away from each other, none of their wishes have come true. However, if two chairs were to face each other, then someone among them would still be left out. It applies for the picture that it shows of Juri, Shiori, and that nameless boy as well. Shiori's love was returned by that boy, and so Juri was left out. Someone had to be sacrificed. In a way, Shiori was preventing it from being herself. She thought that Juri and that boy would face each other, leaving her alone in that chair that she sits in the first time we see her, but instead it was Juri.

It could also mean that someone's feelings towards another person must be sacrificed. That boy loved Juri, but instead Shiori made him look in her direction. Now, however, he says that she doesn't realize that her feelings are standing off the sacrifices of others. She doesn't realize that Ruka would have to sacrifice his feelings for Juri to be with her. Juri is like that to, in the sense that she disregards Ruka's own feelings for Shiori, even if it was to help her. They're all like this, actually.

When Juri's locket is shattered, the three of them gasp, including Shiori from her chair. In the next scene, we see Juri sitting in her chair as she says, "It will be alright, huh?" Now Shiori's chair is facing her own... I really do wonder why the broken locket caused her to face Juri's direction...

After Juri hears what the shadow girls have to say, the three chairs are shown once again. The episode ends with Shiori's chairs facing Juri's, which faces the direction of Ruka's chair, which is no longer there... I was very upset the first time I realized what this meant.
Jan 28, 2012 12:26 PM

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oh god wow i didn't expect that Ruka actually in love with Juri!!!!

this whole episode s amazing!!
Jun 10, 2012 1:01 PM

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Amaya-no-Hime said:
aelove said:
wowww. is there a need for shirt-open-touga to troll everyone at this point?
Yes. Touga will not rest until he strips shirtless for everyone he knows.

Renato said:
Why Ruka wasn't in the Rose Bride dress? I think it would look nice on him
Seriously :)

Hahaha, you guys are hilarious lol
Putting the jokes aside, I also believe this episode was very good. There were some things that I wasn't really expecting. I love this series.
Sep 6, 2012 10:39 PM

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Great episode. I liked how the duel between Utena and Juri was intermixed with Juri and Ruka's duel. Also, Ruka's comment during their duel about how hidden feelings must hurt certainly takes on new meaning in light of that ending.
Dec 14, 2012 5:56 PM
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That was a great episode... I hated Ruka for most of the time he was there, but the ending changed my opinion of him completely. Too sad :(
Jan 28, 2013 2:04 PM

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Everyone says Miki is the only nice guy in the series, but aren't we forgetting Tatsuya, the Onion Prince? Mikage even rejected him because he was too good a person to become one of his duelists.
Feb 8, 2013 2:19 PM

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Not a bad episode, but still insanely repetitive. The character development is nice, but the plot hasn't moved anywhere.
Mar 6, 2013 7:26 PM

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WOW!
This was a fantastic episode.
It was my favorite so far.
The ending was very sad and the symbolism throughout the episode was neat.

I hope Juri is able to move on... She deserves so much better than Shiori.
Though Ruka's intentions ended up being for the good of Juri, I can't help to think he was too forceful.
I understand it was the only way to help Juri since she is so stubborn, but the way he controlled her and pinned her was extreme.

Jun 3, 2013 3:28 PM
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I also noticed with the chair stuff how Jury's chair faces Shiori's, which faces Ruka's, which faces Jury's, forming a literal love triangle. But at the very end, after the shadow girls talk about Ruka's death, the chairs are shown again but Ruka's chair is missing. So it seems like he definitely dies in the anime. But Shiori's chair has finally turned to face Jury's, but Jury's chair is not quite facing Shiori's and seems tilted to where Ruka's used to be. So Shiori finally accepts Jury but Jury has only just come to love Ruka when it is too late!
Noticing the details really made this my favorite episode so far!
Aug 19, 2013 3:52 PM
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Raven_Shinobi said:
Juri/Ruka forever! Though, I know she probably would never return his feelings T_T

I don't know why many people hate him and ship Juri/Shiori. Shiori is more of a bitch that Nanami would ever be, Juri is noble and Ruka risked his life to free the woman that he loved; he deserves her. At least Juri is now over her.

Ruka is not dead. Juri's words at the end make it obvious that the shadow girls had trolled us into thinking that he was. Besides, who would Juri be addressing at the end if it wasn't an alive Ruka?


Nope Sadly Ruka did die. It's implied from the small dialogue between the shadow girls in the clinic hallway. You can still speak to /refer to a dead person you know.
Sep 23, 2013 3:39 PM

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Why didn't they just have a threesome.
Dec 27, 2013 10:58 PM
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Carrottop11 said:
Raven_Shinobi said:
Juri/Ruka forever! Though, I know she probably would never return his feelings T_T

I don't know why many people hate him and ship Juri/Shiori. Shiori is more of a bitch that Nanami would ever be, Juri is noble and Ruka risked his life to free the woman that he loved; he deserves her. At least Juri is now over her.

Ruka is not dead. Juri's words at the end make it obvious that the shadow girls had trolled us into thinking that he was. Besides, who would Juri be addressing at the end if it wasn't an alive Ruka?


Nope Sadly Ruka did die. It's implied from the small dialogue between the shadow girls in the clinic hallway. You can still speak to /refer to a dead person you know.


You're forgetting Juri's statement after she hears the Shadow Girls and how she says "how have you been" and "there's something I want to ask you when we meet again", as though she's writing a letter and the one she's addressing it to can be none other than Ruka, who was no longer at Ohtori.

The topic of Ruka's fate has been discussed a lot on the Ohtori.nu forums, while some believe he's dead some think that was one of the times that the shadow girls trolled us and that Ruka is actually alive.
removed-userDec 27, 2013 11:02 PM
Jan 1, 2014 8:44 PM

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I'd like to believe that Ruka died. It's a nice form of closure, at least, something better than just "he never showed up again". And if I let myself think that, this episode gets a lot more creative and amazing, so much so that I give this a 10/5.
Jan 16, 2014 6:57 AM

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Man, Shiori is one of The Most Unlikable Characters I've ever encountered in a series, or anywhere really.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the whole broken locket scene + Jury not acknowledging Shiori following her was some symbolism for basically moving on
bururuJan 16, 2014 7:14 AM
Jan 23, 2014 11:57 PM

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Great episode.

bururu said:
Keeping my fingers crossed that the whole broken locket scene + Jury not acknowledging Shiori following her was some symbolism for basically moving on


Ditto
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Jun 28, 2014 10:00 AM
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Hayatempest said:
Carrottop11 said:


Nope Sadly Ruka did die. It's implied from the small dialogue between the shadow girls in the clinic hallway. You can still speak to /refer to a dead person you know.


You're forgetting Juri's statement after she hears the Shadow Girls and how she says "how have you been" and "there's something I want to ask you when we meet again", as though she's writing a letter and the one she's addressing it to can be none other than Ruka, who was no longer at Ohtori.

The topic of Ruka's fate has been discussed a lot on the Ohtori.nu forums, while some believe he's dead some think that was one of the times that the shadow girls trolled us and that Ruka is actually alive.


I like to think that the "when we meet again" is in death. People often make small talk at graves of some sort like the person that's dead is still alive. I like to think that this refers to that.
Jul 31, 2014 5:30 PM

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'Wish as hard as you can, and they will know your feelings.' (last sentence in the episode) ... Does that mean that Shiori and Juri got together? Or that Juri realised Ruka's feelings for her? My head hurts.
Aug 26, 2014 5:45 AM

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Holy shit the end of the episode
The way we learn about Ruka's death and what he really wanted to do was just brilliant and left me speechless, then I got teary eyes.
Oct 28, 2014 4:17 AM
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Yup. A truly splendid ep. I can confidently say I loved it.
"There is nothing outside of yourself that enables you to get better. Everything is within. Seek nothing outside of yourself." ⛩️

Mar 20, 2015 8:22 PM

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a wonderful episode, wish Ruka wore the Rose Bride dress though ;)

was really sad how Ruka died (I'm assuming), can't wait to see how Juri's story resolves
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May 23, 2015 2:41 AM

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Not really a fan of Juri but this was a solid episode
Aug 2, 2015 10:38 AM

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Wow it seems that Miki(and Mikage to an extent) wasnt the only boy that wasnt a complete asshole. The ending was tragic and completetly changed my views on Ruka. His actions are questionable but he did it all to free Juri from her delusions and force her to grow up.

Tragic love story and when i think about i feel like crying, still dont like Shiori. Ruka knows hes dying but still sacrifices himself to save the girl he loves(whilst making her despise him in the process),a t least Juri knows the reason Ruka did what he did .

Shes my favorite character so far, great episode.
Sep 29, 2015 8:06 AM

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I started skipping every sequence where Utena goes up the tower.

4/5
Feb 17, 2016 3:52 PM

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I'm still not the biggest fan of Ruka but if he really did manage to make Juri get over Shiori than he'll be alright in my book.
Apr 12, 2016 10:58 AM

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Seems like Juri can never get a happy end.
May 27, 2016 11:33 AM

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That was an amazing episode. I love Ruka so much. He did all this for Juri. In the end of the episode when the 2 shadows speak about the boy (Ruka) i was speechless. Best episode of Utena <3
Jun 29, 2016 9:15 AM

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I loved this episode, Jury is definitely one of my favorite characters of the show!

Lycan said:
Though Ruka's intentions ended up being for the good of Juri, I can't help to think he was too forceful.
I understand it was the only way to help Juri since she is so stubborn, but the way he controlled her and pinned her was extreme.
I strongly agree
Jul 3, 2016 10:50 AM

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I don't think it's a bad thing, but it is interesting to me how pretty much every male character but Miki is a violent lustful brute and inevitably a villain. Ruka show his nasty side in this episode, in what is probably it's most visceral scene, when it's revealed Jury is the one he's really interested in and he essentially forces himself on her before she repels him. The whole sequence is brutal to watch, especially when he takes her locket and she dives over it as if expecting a barrage of punches and kicks from him as retribution for denying him love. It was a pretty savage episode with Jury and one can't help but wonder how she'll fair going forward.

As I expected, while last week focused on the hitherto unseen male part of their love triangle, this week Jury is the one to duel Utena. One thing I liked about the Black Rose and Student Council Saga, I don't see here, is how it was very clear within the plot why each person wanted Anthy and thus to fight Utena. I think with most of the characters in this arc it's been pretty clear why they want her. But I have to admit I was left a little puzzled with Jury. Beyond the basic desire they all have to obtain eternity and seize their own happiness, I'm not sure why she would want Utena.

Still her fight with Utena was one of the best of the series. I don't think the battles themselves are that bad, but they're not exceptional either. What I mainly liked is how genuinely floored I was by the ending. It was set up earlier with the aforementioned Ruka scene, but damned if I saw her locket getting destroyed being how that fight would end. I'm also pretty confident Jury is the first one to not be defeated but destroy her own rose. We understand why she feels defeated, but you can't help but feel the weight in Utena sadly asking "why?"

The ending to the episode was perhaps the most confusing part. We miss our typical timing of the shadow puppet aside, and instead it show up after the fight to deliver some exposition. It seems Ruka has died, and all he wanted to do was make a girl he liked believe in miracles. I can kind of see what they were going for here, but I also have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for Ruka who was just kind of a dick. The final shot of the episode is Shiori chasing after Jury as she leaves the hospital. If this means she's giving Jury a shot, I hope the two don't end up together. Jury should respect herself more.

In closing this was a pretty good conclusion to a mini-arc with the last episode. I think it progressed Jury's personal story a lot more than the last one and concluded Ruka's appearance more satisfactorily. Also Ruka basically saying "Hit it Touga" actually made me laugh kind of hard. I'm curious to see where this show goes next because I'm in the dark. Now it's just a matter of time before Akio's exposed, and Anthy and Utena come together to defeat him.
Dec 30, 2016 3:29 PM

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Wow, I found this episode to be the most powerful yet!

I genuinely loved how I mislead to think Ruka was selfish and only wanted to use Juri as a tool for his own ambitions... but damn, he wanted to FREE her of that emotional baggage all along. Impressed.

Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is.
May 27, 2017 1:36 PM

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This was truly the best episode so far. The character development worked perfectly. Before I thought Ruka is a twisted guy but in the end it turned out he wasn't that bad.
He was just helping her for her own good but in a wrong way. At the end it is unclear weather Ruka is alive or dead. I think he's dead. Whatever the case may be i wish Juri to move on. Shiori clearly isn't the girl she deserves.
May 31, 2017 2:40 PM
Ceasefire NOW

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So that sacrifice Ruka was talking about was himself. I definitely like him more than Shiori. Sad that he had a tragic ending. ;-;

The car scene with The End of the World was kind of meh this episode.
Jun 4, 2017 7:50 PM

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So long story short, Ruka forced himself to go back to school to help the person he loved, Jury, move on and move past what was tying her down, Shiori. That's why he was okay with her not winning the duel against Utena.

I can't say I agree with his methods, but it does make me much more sympathetic toward him. I'm definitely glad to see Jury finally get closure and move past all that.
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It’s time to ditch the text file.
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