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Poll: Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 20 Discussion


#1
Apr 25, 2009 7:46 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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I felt so sorry for Wakaba. I hate Saionji I hope he gets what he deserves.

 
#2
Aug 29, 2009 2:32 PM

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I think it won't happen but I'd like it if Saionji and Wakaba ended up together and she taught him how to behave.
 
#3
Sep 26, 2009 11:55 PM

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Saionji doesn't actually seem like that bad of a guy... I mean, most of what happened in this episode wasn't really his fault. Still, it would suck to be Wakaba in this situation.
 
#4
May 27, 2010 2:22 AM

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Who'd have thought Saionji was capable of such gentle expressions... His problem seems to be his pride and ego that require him to be this important member of society or, well, school. He'd be a much happier person otherwise.
 
#5
Nov 12, 2010 9:47 AM

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Saionji is so daft.

I like how Wakaba actually pulled the sword from him.
頭脳は子供、見た目は大人! ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ
 
#6
Apr 8, 2011 8:04 PM
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Oh wow, a fight with new animation. Color me impressed.

Utena didn't use the power that will revolutionize the world, despite Anthy's begging. Will Wakaba keep her memories then, and how else might the cycle be affected by this seemingly minor change?

Saionji returning to status quo has me worried. I want to see some consequences here, rather than executing a set plan: build on previously established character trait, exploit for jealously, possess character, fight Utena, wipe memory, and finally go back to normal.
 
#7
Jul 6, 2011 11:10 PM

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Good stuff and it seemed like Wakaba may actually remember the events that transpired. I wonder where this is going.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
#8
Aug 3, 2011 9:40 PM

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haha i love saionji. hes the best member of the student council. <3
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#9
Aug 7, 2011 10:23 AM

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hmm... the duel ended without using the sword from Anthy's chest?

the ending seems to indicate Wakaba still cannot forget Saonji
 
Jan 1, 2012 1:02 AM

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I really hope this is not true because it would make wakaba a really shallow character, but her wanting to become a special person made me think that she hangs around Utena so that she can stand out from the crowd as well (as she did when she was with Saionji) because Utena is as Akio said one of those special people. Then again nobody really knew Saoinji was really at her house so it was really a self-serving relationship (on both sides in fact). Perhaps Saionji's recognition was all she needed to feel happy and now that has been taken away from her.

Well, let's see Miki,Jury,Nanami and now Saionji. All that's left from the student counsel is Touga. let's see how this plays out.
 
Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM

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Oh wow this is one of the best episode in any anime!! and i love how Wakaba pull the sword out of Saionji...

I feel really bad for Wakaba, and from the start i always thought that she is pretty and special, maybe she becomes this one face in the crowd, only because she is the only character in this anime who have a large group of a friend...
 
May 30, 2012 9:50 AM

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This episode was great! Poor girl, though.
 
Jul 8, 2012 4:01 PM

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I feel like out of anyone, Wakaba probably suffered the most from this. Anthy showed a lot of emotion in this episode to, actual panic and concern.
 
Aug 28, 2012 11:27 PM

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Chuu Chuu...
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Sep 14, 2012 10:24 PM

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Oh my goodness, so many great things in this episode.

It was nice seeing Saionji in a gentler setting. Even if it didn't last, he seemed genuinely happy around Wakaba. Who knows - if it had lasted longer, maybe the change would have been permanent.I hope we see that side of him again.

Seeing Wakaba fall so hard was painful. She was the most innocent character on the show, and yet she was still pulled in by the Black Rose. And the way she forced the sword from Saionji was a shocking, but nice change from the others. Still, I hope she doesn't stay gloomy.

The entire battle scene was amazing. I can't of anything to say except for "Wow."

And lastly, I absolutely loved Anthy in this episode. That concern she showed during the battle was perhaps the most genuine emotion she's displayed in one sitting. I hope it becomes a trend.
 
Feb 7, 2013 9:07 AM

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Decent conclusion to this little two episode segment here. Nothing was really resolved, but I still got to know a couple of the cast members a little bit better. I hope the student counsel president returns soon.
 
Feb 16, 2013 12:34 AM

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I wonder is Saionji remembers humiliating Wakaba, or if she really is just another girl to him.
Either way, he did seem to care and thank her for her hospitality.

And I was intrigued how much emotion Anthy displayed in that one scene :O
 
Feb 18, 2013 1:52 AM
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I think this might be the best episode so far - although the beginning was painful to watch since it was obviously going to end badly.
 
Mar 30, 2013 2:32 PM
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Wakaba pulling the sword out of Saionji was kinda of creepy

The outcome of the fight was unexpected, Utena won without Anthy's sword
 
Jun 6, 2013 3:12 AM
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Such a great episode...
I was given oportunities to Saionji but that's enough, I hate him! Poor Wakaba is such a sweet girl...
 
Aug 7, 2013 9:09 PM

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The same thing has happened for like 7 episodes in a row............ I'm really hoping the anime has a change in pace soon
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Sep 15, 2013 10:10 AM

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Doesn't Saionji have any parents or something ...
 
Oct 10, 2014 10:15 PM
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Poor Wakaba.

Saionji seemed to show some kindness. I hope it's here to stay. People can change for the better, but it might be too soon to give my complete faith in Saionji.
 
Jan 10, 2015 6:11 PM

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I thought Wakaba was going to go full Yandere mode for a second there.
 
Sep 20, 2015 5:01 PM

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Chu-Chu wasn't in this episode, this is automatically terrible.

4/5
 
Nov 23, 2015 4:08 AM

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>Saionji mooches off her, till he gets his next meal ticket.
>Utena didn't even need the Sword of Dios, really starting to love this badass.
>Wakaba's arc was good; but I still find her character to be a complete fool with a lot of annoying inconsistencies.

64SuperNintendo said:
Chu-Chu wasn't in this episode, this is automatically terrible.


I could go for more episodes with out Chu-Chu tbh
 
Nov 25, 2015 2:44 PM

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Confucius said:
Chuu Chuu...


I remember that final scene and it still creeps me out.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
Feb 16, 2016 2:37 PM

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Oh no, not Wakaba too!

Pretty awesome that Utena didn't have to use Anthy's power for this fight.
 
Jun 5, 2016 1:35 PM

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This show is so meta I fucking love it.

Watching it through for the first time, hope this isn't the last we see of Wakaba
 
Jul 7, 2016 6:33 PM

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Half way through!
 
Dec 2, 2016 7:22 AM

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Most interesting fight thus far, awesome episode.
 
Dec 15, 2016 3:32 PM

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That was possibly the best, most thrilling episode so far.
 
May 26, 2017 2:04 AM

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Pretty bad fall for Wakaba, but the feelings weren't reciprocated sadly. Wonder what happened to the Onion Prince.

Awesome fight scene where Utena doesn't use her sword on her best friend.
 
Jun 2, 2017 1:41 AM

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This episode delivered even more than I expected. It was excellent-- even better than the Jury episode, the previous best in this arc. I'm starting to think I may have judged this arc too quickly back when we were only a couple of episodes in. Everything since the Jury episode has been good.

My first instinct with this episode was to feel sorrowful for Wakaba. I didn't believe Saionji had changed; I was thoroughly convinced that he was just using her to his own ends and doing what he had to do to stay in her good graces. And, for the most part, that was an accurate evaluation. However, although Saionji abuses are inexcusable and his pride obnoxious, I think it's important to point out that he didn't do anything wrong in this episode. His staying at Wakaba's wasn't wrong in and of itself even if his motives toward Anthy are, and he was certainly under no obligation to get in a relationship with Wakaba because she allowed him to stay with her. I also found that as the episode progressed, his expressions of gratitude seemed to be a lot more sincere than I initially suspected they were. Even after he (rather rudely) gave away the handmade hairclip he told Wakaba he was making for her, he intended to get her something "even nicer" (at least from his viewpoint, I'm assuming he actually forgot what he did with her love letter before/that that was her letter). So although he's generally an ugly sort of person and his past misdeeds remain, I don't feel like his actions toward Wakaba in this episode were particularly wrong.

This is significant because the episode manages to genuinely turn Wakaba into a villain of sorts. You see, we've seen this kind of behavior from her before. It's easy to forget because Utena nipped it in the bud with a swift smack, but when Wakaba wasn't getting her way with Utena back when Utena had lost her duel against Touga, instead of blaming Utena herself Wakaba decided to convert her frustration into blaming and saying hateful things to Anthy.

This episode was an extension of that development and a revealing of her true nature. Rather than taking responsibility for her own actions and trying to better herself, Wakaba makes herself wholly dependent upon others and tries to blame anything and anyone for her perceived inadequacies, even to the point of hating them if they get in the way of her dependance. As awful of a person as Saionji may be, in that light I would suggest that Wakaba may be equally selfish and obnoxious at her core-- she just hides it much better underneath her energetic charm and playfulness. In this sense she is Utena's opposite: Where Utena continually asserts her independence despite looking for her prince, Wakaba insists ownership of and dependance upon hers.

Wakaba's worldview isn't about love, then, but control-- which is scarily similar Saionji's relationship with Anthy. It's a twisted version of the prince and princess tale, one where both sides abuse their role in the relationship.

They're actually a fitting pair in that sense, and yet being the same kind of person is itself partly what prevents them from being together, because they both have selfish and controlling worldviews.

Excellent portrayal and contrast.

But wait! There's more.

The duel between Utena and Wakaba was more interesting than most. Aside from Wakaba being one of Utena's best friends (which understandably concerned Anthy), Utena never drew the Sword of Dios nor utilized the Power of Dios. She won the duel entirely of her own power. I feel like that in itself is particularly significant since even when she wasn't the at times in the past champion, the Power of Dios always seemed to react in ways to assist her. Further, this show's OP's final lines seem to reference Utena changing the world even if Anthy disappears: For the first time, it's starting to seem like Utena does possess some sort of gift. Really interesting stuff, and to top it all off it seems like Wakaba may actually remember everything since the black rose was defeated without the Power of Dios. I'm really curious how that will develop if it turns out to be true.

All in all it was a superb episode. It's a hard time picking favorite episodes when there are so many good ones, but this one is definitely one of the best so far imo.
 
Jun 25, 2017 4:10 PM

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Damn, poor Wakaba. All she wants is to have something special and instead just gets shit on.
 
Aug 11, 2017 3:10 PM

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As I expected, Saionji hasn't changed a bit...he's far from Wakaba's "prince". Though this episode showed us there's more to Wakaba than we thought - I would've thought the seminar would have rejected her, but she has darkness in her heart.

I was momentarily worried about Utena not being able to fight Wakaba, but thankfully she came to her senses in the end and protected the Rose Bride. Though the ending, with Wakaba still greeting Saionji even though he's not there...has she completely lost it? :o
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Aug 14, 2017 1:32 PM
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Guess that explains the absence of Wakaba lately. She's been rushing home to Saionji.

Anthy pushing another person over the edge, this time with a subtle hairpin, with the help of Mikage. I hope Mikage and Anthy's plan isn't expelling people's "demons".

Now every student council member has had a weapon pulled out of them, but what is even the point of these fights scenes any more, they're complete walkovers.
 
Sep 8, 2017 10:03 AM

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I completely changed my mind, this episode and the previous were really good. It was frustrating to see how Wakaba indulged the guy who humiliated her, and who's an all around abusive jerk anyways (his tragic relationship with Touga is no excuse for that), but it was cool how she started becoming more and more possessive and envious.

It looks like maybe she didn't forget what happened. I also liked how fundamentally different the duel was compared to the other ones, not to mention the increased stakes. Tenjou hesitated for a long time, as Wakaba is her best friend, but ultimately swiped Wakaba's rose with her opponent's sword. Anthy actually raised her voice, which hasn't happened a lot before.
Modified by LeeTailor, Sep 8, 2017 10:07 AM
 
Oct 27, 2017 2:37 AM

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The parallel between Wakaba and the Onion Prince. Obviously, in both their cases the one they love fails to even recognise their feelings, or at least Saionji thinks they're more shallow than they really are, by assuming that an expensive gift would be a good replacement for the handmade gift. Also, Saoinji is a dick, but he doesn't seem the scheming type, so I think his gratitude their was sincere. His issue in't that he can't be nice, but rather that he's so self centred that he doesn't even seem to fully realised the effect his actions have on others.
Modified by OldManHands, Oct 27, 2017 2:42 AM
 
Oct 30, 2017 2:32 PM

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I hate how love can change good person to demon, under demon influence. I hope Wakaba can be happy one day... ;(

"A half moon, it has a dark half and a bright half, just like me…"
 
Mar 1, 2018 7:01 AM

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I don't know if it is because i stopped the Utena binging for a while (exams, etc) but after seeing this episode i felt like i enjoyed it a lot more than the previous ones.

Loved the whole romance mood of the first half and the latter deception and pain of the last one. Also felt the battle was more meaningful for Utena, being that Wakaba is actually her friend.

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Mar 10, 2018 7:00 AM

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Nice episode, but it's a shame every fight in RGU is super-easy because I was really really hyped for this one. Heck, Utena won without even using HER sword.

But besides that, character developement everywhere, not only for Wakaba, but for Anthy as well (she really seems concerned about Utena's safety, for one).

There are things from this episode I didn't quite understand though. For example, did Anthy really go to Saionji's to see him or was that an illusion made up by the Black Rose Society or something like that? and why was Utena flexing 1/4 of the episode? That isn't explained either.
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Mar 14, 2018 12:09 PM

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what an interesting episode. i'm not sure if i'm reading into it wrong but i think it's commenting on the differences between main and supporting characters. wakaba, being a supporting character, will never be able to remain in the spotlight like utena and anthy can. i've really enjoyed this arc so far
 
Sep 29, 2018 11:52 PM

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at the end of the last episode I was hit with that sudden surprise that onion prince was not her guy...well I guess i should have seen that coming but I've already forgotten that Wakaba cared about Saionji. Who seems to alternate between reasonable and sentimental and sociopathic asshole on the press of a button (or change of clothes maybe)

HitSquare said:
and why was Utena flexing 1/4 of the episode? That isn't explained either.

She was trying to invite Superintendent Chalmers to join her in some isometric exercise.
 
Jan 6, 4:00 PM

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Wakaba's small arc might be the most intriguing one in this series so far! There's so much more to her personality compared to what I initially imagined, she's definitely not another one-dimensional "normal" supporting friend, similar to, say, Naru from Sailor Moon. So glad to see it!

Totally regret not having more arcs like this one, instead of episodic duel-of-the-week formula, sigh.

Also, I honestly thought there'd be more onion guy in this episode, wonder if he shows up again in the future?
 
Feb 8, 5:03 PM

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I like how just when it looked like it was going with the "plucky underdog girl somehow gets the school prince/bishie" shoujo trope, this show's just like "nooope". Just like last episode when everyone thought her and the Onion Prince were getting together.
 
May 19, 5:17 AM

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Wow, what an awesome episode. I like how the scenes in the city were directed, showing how Wakaba was basically merging with the town as an 'ordinary' person. These scenes really reminded me of Evangelion.
I should also point out how emotional this episode was. Wakaba, Saionji, Anthy, Utena - all of them showed a lot of emotion here (especially during the duel), and it genuinely looks like a turning point in the series, with Utena gaining her own power to win the duel, Anthy showing so much concern for Utena, and Wakaba crying after the duel, which suggests that her memory is still there. How will it affect her relationship with her best friend?

Also, I noticed that the green chicken (or what was it?) on Wakaba's table looks like a character from Ikuhara's recent anime, Sarazanmai. Cute.
One thing I didn't understand, though, is Mikage's sudden appearance in Wakaba's room. How did that happen?
 
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