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Poll: Gungrave Episode 14 Discussion


#1
Apr 18, 2009 1:45 PM
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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Damn...
 
#2
May 12, 2009 2:39 PM
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Wow...just wow.

I seriously didn't expect that.
 
#3
Jul 1, 2009 7:15 AM
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I'm really beginning to hate Harry.
first Randy who always helped him and now his "best friend".
 
#4
Aug 5, 2009 9:36 PM

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Most epic, honestly did not expect Harry to do something like that to Brandon. That was such a twist at the end, poor Brandon. I can't wait for Beyond the Grave.

 
#5
Aug 18, 2009 7:34 AM

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What was the twist? Haven't you guys seen the first episode?
 
#6
Aug 20, 2009 12:38 PM

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Of course we all knew Harry killed Brandon. However, it was the conditions surrounding his murder that surprised me.

 
#7
Aug 24, 2009 5:32 PM

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Fuck...Harry killed Brandon just like that? I can't believe it...after first episode I expected that he would do it, but ... ehh...i thought that would be later....and not so simply?
Sorry, my English isn't perfect ^^
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"...because the people who are crazy enough to think that they change the world are the ones who do..."
 
#8
Sep 9, 2009 2:48 PM

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Finally, they split. And Brandon... Nah, he will resurrect, right? ... By Necro-Rise, surely. :( And under Harry's orders, surely. :'(

It's like Harry was always waiting for this moment. Have all of we fallen to Harry's charms, just like Sherry?
 
#9
Sep 27, 2009 7:14 AM

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so he killed him because he heard the conversation with bid daddy about killing anyone who betrays etc....
fuck him x(
 
Feb 21, 2010 4:31 AM

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Wow! Just wow.
Earth gets angry after a kick in the face.
 
Jun 16, 2010 10:19 PM

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Wow, that was the best episode thus far. The silence between Brandon and Harry was just so solemn, and the symbolism of Brandon being in the light while Harry was in the dark in the elevator was powerful. It was obvious early on that Harry was far too ambitious, but I didn't think he would do Brandon dirty like that...damn.
 
Aug 15, 2010 5:35 AM

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Well, we all knew it was coming but the circumstances surrounding it still came as a surprise to me.
 
Nov 30, 2010 5:10 PM

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That was the BEST suspension built up I've ever experienced. Ever. It killed me.

FUCK HARRY. FUCK HIM.
 
Dec 11, 2010 2:18 PM

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That cold bastard !

Not so surprised , but nice twist at the end.
 
Apr 3, 2011 2:03 AM

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Harry Mother fucking Macdowell baby
 
Sep 25, 2011 5:05 PM

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One of the best anime episodes out there. The silence between Brandon and Harry was deafening. Words weren't needed to express the emotions their emotions in the elevator. The only way to describe the Brandon-Harry last half of the episode is perfection personified.

First Harry tested Brandon by strongly suggesting he'd had the new boss put into hospital. Brandon walking away to avoid confronting the issue and Harry's eyes as he followed him said it all. And then, in the car, when it took a few seconds for Harry to remember the names of their old friends, Brandon's shock was written all over his face. Neither party liked how the other had changed, and their friendship had reached breaking point.

...Then came the elevator scene and, God, was it ever suspenseful! I've always found myself more on Harry's side because, although he'd become power mad, he hadn't changed all that much since the beginning. What had changed was Brandon's goals: instead of just wanting to protect Harry and Maria, his initial goals had become warped to the point his loyalty was split between the organization, Big Daddy and his best friend. Once Brandon pulled out the gun, there was no longer a way for the two to repair their relationship, and Harry's crazed anger afterwards stemmed from him feeling genuinely betrayed by the one he trusted the most. Had Brandon not become so caught up in Big Daddy's world, Harry may very well have not become known as "Bloody Harry", later on.

Also: I felt sorry for Maria when she told Brandon first about being pregnant; before even Big Daddy. When she talked about how she'd ended up having sex with an old man, instead of the man she loved, it sounded very much like she was trying to convince herself that what happened was for the best. She found herself forced to convince herself she was happy because of Brandon being a moron.

I liked how Brandon expressed himself with actions, rather than words, and became slightly more articulate/slicker as the series progressed, but seriously: Him not getting it on with Maria would've pissed me off, had BrandonxMaria received more attention.
 
Nov 22, 2011 6:09 AM
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Sublime episode. Finally Harry snaps and let's his ambition devour him to the extent of personally shooting his own best friend.

Brandon's handling of the Maria situation was dumb as hell. But then again, that's kind of in his character. All brawn and little brains.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
Jul 11, 2012 9:45 AM

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Wow amazing episode. I didn't expect Brandon to die like that. He gave up the girl he loved so he could help his best friend, but he ended up being betrayed by him.

5/5
 
Aug 31, 2012 1:27 AM

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I knew this was going to happen eventually but wow, it still surprised me.
I agree, the symbolism (and the silence) in this episode was so powerful and it explained so much. It is heartbreaking to see how such a beautiful friendship can be destroyed because how the initial innocent idea of obtaining freedom evolved into a twisted hunger for power. ;-;

Excellent episode. 5/5.
 
Jan 8, 2013 7:37 PM

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Yup, saw this coming. It was sooner or later before Brandon ends up like that and there's no way in hell right now from the way I can see that he can survive that shot.

Anyways, 5/5.
 
Jan 31, 2013 1:48 AM

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This is the best episode of Gungrave. The look on Harry's face while eavesdropping Big Daddy and Brandon's conversation was priceless and the last scene was one of the best things I've ever seen in anime.
 
Feb 1, 2013 6:18 AM

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The fuck was that ? Came out of nowhere. Hated Harry all show, but now I'm in rage.

 
Jun 27, 2013 1:18 PM

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I was totally waiting how Brandon will die. But that was so suprising! And I kinda like the way Brandon was looking to the sky while falling.. so dramatic. Damn it, Harry! I was even agreeing at him at first to kill Big Daddy so that Maria could be with Brandon again. But now, i hate him.
 
Dec 22, 2013 8:14 AM

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Quite a decent episode, let's see what's next!
 
Dec 27, 2013 11:40 PM

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Well we knew that was going to happen eventually because of the dumbass first episode.

I'm more surprised/upset that Maria's soon to be daughter is from Big Daddy, not Brandon.
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Feb 17, 2014 8:06 PM

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that was incredible, you know it was coming even skipping the first episode but the way they handle the betrayal was astonishing and the scene was masterfully pulled off, everything from the build up to the final moments was top notch, Also major props to the symbolism this episode, this series pulls symbolism off well without veering into pretention

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

 
Jan 3, 2015 5:25 PM

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yamijubaku said:
Wow...just wow.

I seriously didn't expect that.
 
Feb 15, 2015 9:30 AM

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Oh my, I really laughed hard when Brandon was talking about Big Daddy and Maria; that has to be the most shittiest excuse to ever leave your[only] love interest. To top it all, Maria still loves him, but, screw that, Big Daddy needs his freedom.

On the more serious side of things, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of the elevator and the yin and yang symbolism, or, at least that's what I got from it. Brandon standing in the light, while Harry in the dark.
Despite the symbolism, the tension in this episode was very high from the very beginning(beach scene) to the very last, probably the best episode of the show.

And if there is a weakest link, then it has to be the romance, and probably the zombies or whatever those things were in the first episode.
Modified by ouriel, Feb 15, 2015 9:34 AM
 
Apr 23, 2015 9:31 PM

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Talk about a cliffhanger.
 
Jul 25, 2015 8:23 AM

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I knew Harry was going to kill Brandon but it didn't feel right.
 
Oct 7, 2015 12:20 PM

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Maria is pregnant...wow!

Harry is a son of bitch! Brandon should have killed him...
 
Oct 13, 2015 11:29 PM

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Oh come on Maria, I know you've been wanted to get laid by Brandon for years but settling with some old dude who you've thought of as your uncle for years is some pretty desperate stuff....

About Harry being a cunt and killing off his best friend in cold blood, it was only a matter of time. What a shitty life Brandon. Gave up every bit of happiness just to get back stabbed by your best friend.
 
Oct 26, 2015 11:52 AM
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Best episode.

The suspense during the elevator scene, wow.

So much more to be said but most the posts above already covered what needed to be said.

5/5

 
Nov 1, 2015 1:16 AM

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Been best friends since childhood and it all ended just like that. The world of adults is scary. Never forget that kids.
If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have).
 
Dec 13, 2015 4:45 AM

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Wow, shocked with all of these very positive reactions. These last two episodes were tremendously retarded and nonsensical. The direction was good in terms of just the visuals alone, the animation too, but the plot-twists and how the dialogues and situations were treated were completely stupid.

First of all, what's Brandon's goal around these two episodes? He gave up pursuing Maria due to his life changes and his thoughtfulness to her - alright, that sounds fine. But then, Maria approaches him and tries to be blunt with him about how she feels. Brandon still is decisive with his lifestyle not being enough for her, so he leaves her - for Big Daddy TO TAKE HIS PLACE?? The guy who was COMPARED to him by his only friends? The guy who is a fucking OLD MAN. This whole change to Maria X Old Man happening a mere few days after Maria was being all open and blunt to Brandon? I'm sorry, this twist is fucking DUMB. However, I was still deciding to be cool and play along.

I was like, "okay, maybe Brandon has just randomly become basically just a worshiper of Harry and will become his follower, just letting the Old Man mate with Maria to make him want to settle down and free his position for Harry". I inserted that reasoning into Brandon and it seemed at least logical for a sociopath, BUT then we have the over-the-mic scene where Brandon says that anyone who betrays "The Family" will be at the end of his sights. Okay, that's cool, but who exactly is "The Family" signifying? Big Daddy was even just saying if Harry betrayed that he better watch out - not that he was saying that personally as Big Daddy is now resigned and out of the picture basically. But Brandon is determined to protect...... what again now - against Harry if he betrayed? My only possible logic for the Maria X Old Man is now thrown aside and we just have INSANE BRANDON trucking along now. At this point I'm thinking, "well Harry, Brandon is basically crazy now just wanting to protect a set of rules - willing to kill his childhood friend for that silver-plaque of rules, so just kill him Harry". Well, nope, GOOD-GUY HARRY decides to give Brandon a chance.

On the shore Harry puts it lightly to Brandon that he finds it funny that the new boss is hospitalized. Brandon is appaled and walks away - *CUE INTENSE SLOW-MO*..... TO BE FOLLOWED BY.... the guys being chummy back in a car? Oookay? Well Harry drives around old places where they used to be, basically driving down memory-lane. Brandon then brings up, "why don't we visit Kenny"? Harry, "What"? Resulting in BRANDON IS JUDGING YOU HARRY, YOU FORGET. Well Brandon, you know very well that Harry is now a busy man and that you basically already forgot your own humanity and your GF in the process, which isn't very much better than Harry not being able to understand what you're saying for a few seconds. But, ALAS, a few seconds later Good-Guy Harry says "oh!" cheerfully and agreed they should visit. Then, while there, Harry even remembers his old words he said that time in how he'd build them a big, fancy grave, and that he'd do it now - and even buy their old orphanage along with creating a new one. Damn Harry is on a Good-Guy roll, but NOPE - JUDGMENTAL BRANDON JUDGES as he places a rock on the graves signifying "no, harry, Brandon place rock on stone, Harry must also place rock on stone now - be respect Harry". But, even then, Good-Guy Harry is on a roll and doesn't stop, joining in on placing down rocks to appease how Brandon wishes to respect the dead (which doesn't make sens mind you because he would've said something to Harry long ago when Harry mentioned the idea of building a better grave).

So now we're in a HQ elevator going up... with likely a security camera watching... but don't mind that. Anyways, so Brandon is now back to rejection as he faces out the window - yes - creating the *masterful* imagery of Ying-Yang (wow, so masterful). So anyways, Harry is still on a Good-Guy roll and internally decides "you know what, I am going to take a clear risk and tell Brandon my plans in hope he'll agree with me, if he doesn't he'll probably either kill me or knock me out and throw me to the higher-ups, but I'm on a Good-Guy roll so I'll just take the risk for my good ole' buddy".
*Harry tells Brandon everything* - Brandon pulls up gun. Now Harry is regretting his decision, but Brandon drops the gun. Now Brandon is clearly showing he didn't mean what he said over the mic and that he actually DOES care for his friend more than a silver plaque of rules. So now Good-Guy Harry should only be expected to continue with his act - like he has before in a VERY SIMILAR WAY - and try and re-recruit Brandon - BUT NOPE. PSYCHO MAD HARRY IS THE NEW HARRY NOW BRANDON, SO *BANG,BANG,BANG* BRANDON.
*Brandon falls*
*Brandon dies*

Piegoose: Hmm... Well I understand why Harry would shoot Brandon since Brandon was acting pretty nonsensical and insane. Brandon almost killed him too, so it's at least rational that Harry, not wanting to go further with his risk, would just put Brandon down. However, Harry's facial expression was still kinda odd if that was the case, looks like a psycho - but I see actions as saying much more than facial expressions.

So, in my conclusion: Brandon went insane and Harry put him down. He might even bring Brandon back to life, but I honestly don't care what happens to Brandon at this point. Harry is the only consistent character up to this point. Old Man lost respect when caring for Maria wasn't all just out of thoughtful good will but also by some hard woody. SIGGHHHHHHHH Gungrave WHY


EDIT: So I watched again and noticed the off-the-side two-second mention by Harry (in the elevator) that Big Daddy "still has influence" and would have to die too. Even if that were the case, wouldn't it have been better to build to that statement than jump to it Harry? I guess I could see him having influence if the new boss was killed as the organization would probably return to Big Daddy for aid on what to do next for top position. Harry could've probably been just a bit more patient though and manage to get top ranked by becoming more trusted, keeping Brandon alive in the process - so I guess since he didn't that does make him more of an asshole. Harry could've also resisted the urge to obvious-clap against the new boss, as even if no one else caught on it'll be hard to fool the new boss now. By the way, either Bear is a complete blind-sighted coward now, or just wants to ride on the coat-tails of Harry because.... he might be one step "higher up the ladder - derp" (show loves that metaphor). This episode is still fairly grey-area though and maybe that's a good thing dynamic-wise, but it still feels really sloppy in how they progressed it. I would've like to have known much earlier that Big Daddy would still have influence. Whichever way though, episode 13 is still shit
Modified by Piegoose, Dec 13, 2015 2:04 PM
 
Mar 26, 2016 6:36 PM

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The sound of glasses cracking from the force of a gun barrel pressed against them is forever etched into my memory.
 
Apr 11, 2016 8:40 PM

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I wonder how faithful the anime was towards the game hmmm.
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:02 PM

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Wow now that was unexpected :0
 
Jul 22, 2016 8:46 AM

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Not cool man, Not cool. -_-
 
Jul 30, 2016 2:40 AM

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The way they built into the fallout between Harry and Brandon was brilliant. Reminiscing on the past, revisiting their childhood, the eerie tension as they silently rode the elevator. While I didn't think Harry would betray Brandon this soon, all of the subtle expressions and the unsettled atmosphere led up to it perfectly.
 
Sep 1, 2016 5:52 PM

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Im so glad that I already forgot what actually happened in the first episode. This episode became even more exciting and thrilling because of that.
 
Jul 21, 2017 5:19 AM

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Brandon, you should have seen this coming.
 
Sep 9, 2017 4:53 PM

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Healthy amount of ambition is surely a good thing to have. But too much of it is a poison. Didn't Harry had enough wealth and power? Was it really worth to kill his best friend in exchange for what... even more power? Is it even possible to satisfy this man?
 
Sep 13, 2017 5:49 AM

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I skipped episode 1 for the record, as nearly everyone recommends and oh my god.

Best episode yet. Far from retarded as one user put. I noticed this before, especially in the scene last episode(iirc) where Brandon left Maria crying alone, leaving her to be happy, and Harry was making out with Sherry, clearly using her, staring through her coldly thinking of his ambitions, but Harry and Brandon are absolute opposites.
Brandon's sense of freedom, what he wants, is of a negative kind, freedom from loss, pain, and sadness. All he wants is to protect Harry, Maria, and Big Daddy, as well as all the other friends and family he's made in the organization. Harry wants freedom of a positive kind, freedom to stealing and giving as much as he could possibly want, freedom to power. The Guts and Griffith analogy has already been made, but it's even to the subversive colors, Brandon like Gut's wears a black outfit, and Harry like Griffith wears white(and rides a white horse). Both are to a fault, Brandon is needlessly self sacrificing, and Harry is needlessly selfish, both result in massive character flaws.

And I can only assume the running scene with Harry in the ED is supposed to be reminiscent of Harry chasing the sheet flying away. It pans out and we see Brandon running as well. This scene comes to mean a darker meaning when we assume the sheet is symbolized freedom, which it quite clearly is, and Brandon and Harry are so far away from each other. They have entirely different definitions of the word freedom, the concept both of them are lusting for. This ED somehow got even better...

The way the episode slowly unraveled their trust together, AironicallyHuman above gave a perfect description of the key events so I won't rehash, but the suspense filling until the suspense balloon pops was perfect. The directing was phenomenal in its portrayal with this, even if it is hit or miss and a little overbearing at times, when it works(which is a lot), it works so well. The elevator scene had me shaking! BUURAANDOON!
Best best best best episode. 10/10
Modified by gfsdfgsdgsdfgs, Sep 13, 2017 6:01 AM
 
Nov 9, 2017 2:14 PM

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Damn, I didn't think this would happen so suddenly, and I thought it would be something bigger or flashier...good episode though.
"At some point, I stopped hoping."
 
Feb 8, 2018 5:44 AM
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Damn. Branden was too selfless of a guy but I think thats just his character. Lost his love interest to his boss and his best friend killing him. I think this show is so good because of it, I guess.
 
Feb 19, 2018 10:42 AM
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Hands down best episode thus far. So much to talk about in this episode...

During the elevator scene my heart was racing; I knew some shit was going to go down. It's clear that Brandon is loyal to Big Daddy, and Harry felt threatened by Brandon's statement saying that he will eliminate all traitors. I also loved the fact that some backstory of Harry and Brandon's childhood was revealed and how they were abused as orphans, kind of shows a little bit of background on why Harry is the way he is.

Still, Harry has turned into a monster and I can't believe he betrayed Brandon (I was absolutely lost in the first episode let me remind you). After all they have been through, and after all Brandon has done for Harry to help him rise to the top. I guess you just can't trust your best friend.

I have a feeling that another reason Harry killed Brandon is to use his body make an ultimate super soldier... I can't wait to see what happens next.
 
Mar 25, 2018 3:38 PM
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So Harry betrayed Brandon and not the opposite I didn't expect that.
 
Apr 4, 2018 8:38 AM

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that elevator scene though......... holy MOLY. Insanity
harry. u r trash. that is all.
 
May 21, 2018 2:42 AM
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My rewatch of Gungrave continues. What a great buildup. Subtle, little rocks rolling here and there and it builds up in a big crescendo and then the catastrophic finale.

To think that if Big Daddy had chosen Harry, things would have turned out much differently.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
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