The 'shoujo-ai' tag should stop being used on MAL.

lpf said:
If the Japanese-speaking squad could take a look at this before claiming that MAL use is incorrect, it would make this thread more intelligent and productive. Run this into Google Translate if you can't read runes. Thank you.

IntroverTurtle said:
I just realized something. People want to change it because shoujo ai means little girl love in Japanese which would be pedophelia right? But for like BL which is used in Japan I believe? Stands for Boy's Love, boys in English are usually little boys, so in a way Boy's Love in English could mean pedophelia.

I say we send a message to Japan getting them to stop.

Mogu-sama said:
Problem, people refer to adult females as girls and adult males as boys.

IntroverTurtle said:
I just realized something. People want to change it because shoujo ai means little girl love in Japanese which would be pedophelia right? But for like BL which is used in Japan I believe? Stands for Boy's Love, boys in English are usually little boys, so in a way Boy's Love in English could mean pedophelia.

I say we send a message to Japan getting them to stop.

IntroverTurtle said:
I just realized something. People want to change it because shoujo ai means little girl love in Japanese which would be pedophelia right? But for like BL which is used in Japan I believe? Stands for Boy's Love, boys in English are usually little boys, so in a way Boy's Love in English could mean pedophelia.

I say we send a message to Japan getting them to stop.

kitsune0 said:
THIS. Sums it all up. Discussion closed, everyone, go home.
Thank you, sir, you're a genius and mah hero. +)

Dumblederp said:
In all my time spent absorbing Japanese media in its many forms, I've never come across a case where "shoujo-ai" was used to label pedophilia. It's a term used to describe love between girls, regardless of age. Over the years, the word "yuri" has become synonymous with "shoujo-ai". The word "yuri" itself is really just slang (not to mention a pretty common name in Japan).

lpf said:


If the Japanese-speaking squad could take a look at this before claiming that MAL use is incorrect, it would make this thread more intelligent and productive. Run this into Google Translate if you can't read runes. Thank you.

少女愛（しょうじょあい、英語：girllove（和製英語としてのガールズラブも存在するが、意味が異なる））は、少女への、何らかの意味での性的関心を含む愛情である。性的・肉体的な関心に力点を置く場合もあるが、精神的でプラトニックな愛であることを強調する場合もある。日本ではロリコンの同義語として用いられることが多い。

Dumblederp said:
I'm sorry, but I think that you're mistaken. I'm friends with some of the Japanese exchange students at my university, and I've heard them use shoujo-ai when describing girl-girl relationships. The phrase is even used that way in anime very often. Using it when talking about pedophilia hardly makes sense considering its meaning.

Dumblederp said:

I really don't mean to blatantly disagree with you, but I think that your information may a bit ill-informed. I urge you to do more research on the phrase and its connotations, both as a genre and in a social setting.

lpf said:


If the Japanese-speaking squad could take a look at this before claiming that MAL use is incorrect, it would make this thread more intelligent and productive. Run this into Google Translate if you can't read runes. Thank you.

it is high time that the usage of Shoujo-Ai to describe a genre be abolished when other terms like Yuri or simply female homosexual relationship carry the same meaning without ambiguity or confusion.

Ejc said:

Take a look at the first paragraph.

symbv said:
Dude, you should read the title of the thread before posting. We are talking about SHOUJO-AI. Your quote is about SHOUNEN-AI. I think you should take a look at the title before making that post and this would make this thread more intelligent and productive. Thank you.

lpf said:
I've read the title, but maybe you haven't read the posts which did make a contention out of the use of shounen-ai. My original reply (if you've read it) addressed these comments. If you genuinely think the use of shounen-ai isn't up for debate in a thread about shoujo-ai, then go after the people who, to begin with, brought up the subject to which I just sought to contribute?

Zalis said:
So which of our Japanese linguistic overlords (because "being a speaker of a language" makes you an official authority on its usage) do we believe? The ones dumblederp is mentioning, or the one symbv has quoted?]

Zalis said:
. As for "yuri," I recall that our linguistic overlords declared that it was reserved for explicit pornography (as with "yaoi") and that it shouldn't be used for lesbian romances or overtones in normal all-ages anime. So it's got the same potential for confusion once the pendulum swings back the other way.

Zalis said:
Point is, rather than bending over backwards to concur with the inconsistent and shifting edicts from afar, it's preferable to use terms that the site's core English-speaking/Western audiences find convenient and comprehensible.

Zalis said:
If a tiny Japanese-speaking minority around here finds that confusing, well...

Zalis said:
Japanese adopts plenty of English loanwords and sometimes mangles them beyond comprehension. Would they extend the same courtesy to foreign users and correct their English, or Janglish, as it's sometimes called?

Sora_92 said:

It reminds me when I was in elementary school, where we learnt german and no english, but we liked computer games, what most are english, we often used many english words incorrectly. But when I started learning english, I realised my mistakes, and no longer use 'armoire' for armory or /potion/ instead of /ˈpəʊʃ(ə)n/ for potion ect. ect. (not talking about grammar mistakes, which I'm sure, I do often, gomenasai). It basically souds the same a bit, but here many peoples saying "but I want to use the word incorrectly to Japanese, because I like it like this"

kitsune0 said:
We still didn't hear any response to "than we should start calling "anime" everything animated" and "let's stop using English titles that are like years in use and start using proper Japanese instead". But that's 0K, I understand that there is nothing to answer without revealing your own double standards and twisted logic.

kitsune0 said:

Then what about all the fraggin' world around us? Are you seriously gonna go all the way and fight like damn hundreds of thousands other anime fans all around the globe? 'Cause, you know, a whole Hell of 'em using "shoujo-ai" instead of "yuri".

So 0K, we can be oh so damn right, but what about communicating with others besides our big happy circle of MAL users?

Heredity said:
Nigger is still used a lot, and still means the same thing.

kitsune0 said:
"let's stop using English titles that are like years in use and start using proper Japanese instead".

symbv said:
At least I hope that people in charge of this forum think so or have the inspiration of being one. And here MAL can play a leading role in facilitating the anime/manga culture flow and educating the western fandom, by using Japanese term in its correct meaning. MAL could have taken the leadership to correct a long running misuse of a Japanese term but instead, by sticking to attach Shoujo-Ai tag to new anime such as Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san, it contents itself with stagnancy and lethargy.

Sora_92 said:
so don't you would like to use a Japanese word as Japanese use?

symbv said:
Sora_92, you have got a very good analogy here. Those are against our reasonable request about taking the Shoujo-Ai tag down is just like a bunch of kids who would not admit they have been making mistake all along but want to treat the misguided usage as their toy that no one can pry away from them. Pretty sad, huh?

Sora_92 said:
agrees or agains it?:

Sora_92 said:
why?:

symbv said:
You try to find a smart argument but end up exposing the problem with the practice. The point is: If we want to use a Japanese term to describe the genre, then we should follow its meaning used in Japan. In the past westerners would call every Medieval Japan fighter, even a lowly soldier, a Samurai; now people know much better and Samurai is used only to mean what it is meant in Japan, which signifies the class as well. So if you have problem with BL for its meaning in English (but this leaves the question of how many English speaking people actually know what BL stands for? On the other hand, there are few Japanese who do not know Shoujo-Ai means girl pedophilia. So your argument that BL is just objectionable to English speaking people is really stretching the argument), then I would say let's just use the English term for the genre. Call it male homosexual, female homosexual, or anything that is clear to an English-speaking person, but just DO NOT use a confusing, obsolete and ultimately by now wrong term that is not commonly found in English vocabulary for a genre just so that it sounds Japanese. If you want the term to sound Japanese, then use the term as Japanese do.

Zalis said:
So which of our Japanese linguistic overlords (because "being a speaker of a language" makes you an official authority on its usage) do we believe? The ones dumblederp is mentioning, or the one symbv has quoted?

Yes, let's substitute a 3-syllable (by English standards), 9-keystroke word for a 12-syllable, 37-keystroke phrase. Totally simple! You know how much the Internet loves to create and read long-form prose. As for "yuri," I recall that our linguistic overlords declared that it was reserved for explicit pornography (as with "yaoi") and that it shouldn't be used for lesbian romances or overtones in normal all-ages anime. So it's got the same potential for confusion once the pendulum swings back the other way.

Point is, rather than bending over backwards to concur with the inconsistent and shifting edicts from afar, it's preferable to use terms that the site's core English-speaking/Western audiences find convenient and comprehensible. If a tiny Japanese-speaking minority around here finds that confusing, well... Japanese adopts plenty of English loanwords and sometimes mangles them beyond comprehension. Would they extend the same courtesy to foreign users and correct their English, or Janglish, as it's sometimes called?

Serhiyko said:
MAL does that little by little in fact

Heredity said:


Wow, convinced me.

kitsune0 said:
Really? Are you sure? I somehow doubt it. Don't know why. Moreover, we have horrific mixed Japanese-English titles. And mind it - it's not some G-d-forgotten titles that no-one watched, that's some of the oldest major hits, often known even to non-anime fans.
But 0K, I got it. So, now we some kind of trendsetters, all educated and intelligent. Wow. I guess, now we're some sort of legislature. Yeah, let's lead people to happiness. Even... no, especially if they don't want it.
Democracy is a rule of majority, isn't it?

Kiraly said:
Does that mean we can start calling Attack on Titan The Eotena Onslaught?

kitsune0 said:
Really? Are you sure? I somehow doubt it. Don't know why. Moreover, we have horrific mixed Japanese-English titles. And mind it - it's not some G-d-forgotten titles that no-one watched, that's some of the oldest major hits, often known even to non-anime fans.

IntroverTurtle said:
wouldn't suddenly changing that actually confuse the English speaking fans who are already use to the outdated(not wrong) definition?

Exaccus said:
The term shoujo-ai is well understood in the anime community to basically be a lighter, milder version of yuri.

I say leave things as they are.

Changing the tags is only going to cause mass confusion and frustration.

tiro_finale said:

It's not like there are little girl pedophilia animes on mal

tiro_finale said:
How so?
It's not like there are little girl pedophilia animes on mal, the sollution in my opinion is simply to get rid of the shoujo-ai tag.
Plain and simple, japanese fans won't be confused because there isn't more little girl pedophilia tag, and western fans won't be confused either because they know what Yuri is. Nobody loses.

kitsune0 said:
0h no, not that crap again.
Yes, yes, yes, we know that there are some percent of Japanese users here on MAL. But do you seriously think that majority of Japanese anime fans really using MAL? I highly doubt that they even know about this site. Than again, why should we ignore the masses in favor of some not even vocal minority? And yes, there are some well-educated Western users om MAL that knows proper meaning of "shoujo-ai", but than again - it's just some G-d-damn minority, though very vocal this time. And they for sure already know the difference between "shoujo-ai" and "yuri", as well as the difference between Japanese and Western definitions of this terms. Who really will be confused is the majority of users that used to "shoujo-ai", when they suddenly discover that there is no "shoujo-ai" tag but only "yuri".
Again, why should we change things only because a small fraction of MAL society are unhappy with said things?
Hell, they can't fix damned BB-code, they can't finish that "English back to Japanese renaming" case, and now tags? Just because someone feelin' - like what, guilty? - with some oh-G-d-no-ambiguous tags? Gimme a break.

Shiratori99 said:
Are you a jew?

tiro_finale said:
How so?
It's not like there are little girl pedophilia animes on mal, the sollution in my opinion is simply to get rid of the shoujo-ai tag.
Plain and simple, japanese fans won't be confused because there isn't more little girl pedophilia tag, and western fans won't be confused either because they know what Yuri is. Nobody loses.

Shiratori99 said:
Cause you censor "g-d" lol

kitsune0 said:
0h no, not that crap again.
Yes, yes, yes, we know that there are some percent of Japanese users here on MAL. But do you seriously think that majority of Japanese anime fans really using MAL? I highly doubt that they even know about this site. Than again, why should we ignore the masses in favor of some not even vocal minority? And yes, there are some well-educated Western users om MAL that knows proper meaning of "shoujo-ai", but than again - it's just some G-d-damn minority, though very vocal this time. And they for sure already know the difference between "shoujo-ai" and "yuri", as well as the difference between Japanese and Western definitions of this terms. Who really will be confused is the majority of users that used to "shoujo-ai", when they suddenly discover that there is no "shoujo-ai" tag but only "yuri".
Again, why should we change things only because a small fraction of MAL society are unhappy with said things?
Hell, they can't fix damned BB-code, they can't finish that "English back to Japanese renaming" case, and now tags? Just because someone feelin' - like what, guilty? - with some oh-G-d-no-ambiguous tags? Gimme a break.

kitsune0 said:
Really? Are you sure? I somehow doubt it. Don't know why. Moreover, we have horrific mixed Japanese-English titles. And mind it - it's not some G-d-forgotten titles that no-one watched, that's some of the oldest major hits, often known even to non-anime fans.

Sora_92 said:
I might add this to what Tiro_finale said, but it might so obvious not even need to mention; Add some big announcement that it'll being removed/changed to Yuri - due to it's incorrect use - so even those who wasn't aware this will know, and they will not confused (though I don't see why they would be confused to begin with)