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Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM
Mar 18, 2010 3:27 AM

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I don't know what it means? xD
Mar 18, 2010 3:46 AM
Mar 18, 2010 4:37 AM

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...the acronym doesn't make sense imo...is that some aussie/chinese thing or something?
Mar 18, 2010 5:32 AM

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sheesh, for an American you're pretty behind the times (and you got told that by an Aussie, SNAP!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y
Mar 18, 2010 3:40 PM

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Hey I'm a Filipino (and by extension an Asian) before I'm an American...you have just greatly insulted me kind sir!

And yeah I'm pretty behind the times when it comes to popular culture...still caught up with the news though? xD
Mar 18, 2010 10:45 PM

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I assure you my uncultured language was merely a way to...inform you
(crap this Pommy thing is hard X_X)
Mar 20, 2010 2:54 AM

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My problem with Railgun is that I don't consider it to be a part of the slice of life genre. The story is separated into arcs. The early stages of the arc introduces the characters at play, things build up, and we have an eventual conclusion a la Level Upper arc. Now there is supposed to be an obligatory 'break' episode, this is where the slice of life stuff comes in. The problem with Railgun is that they took an otherwise 1 episode 'break' into several episodes of pointlessness. Then suddenly they resume the normal arc formula...after we were bored to death by completely useless fluff episodes.

You don't like Shana!? ...I have nothing more to say to you on that one =P

Well she is the bad guy so it's expected that she say's something 'bad' like that (even though it's true) and the obligatory "that's not true" response from the protagonist. I thought the line fit perfectly with what was going on with the earlier LU arc as well as the current arc, but yeah I suppose it was said for the sole purpose of having said obligatory comeback response.

lolbatshitpsycho Kihara was completely uncalled for. By that I mean the crazy metamorphosis in an otherwise beautiful woman into some deranged lunatic. Were those facial features really necessary? Yeah we get it she's the bad guy...way to keep it subtle JC staff...

Well Uiharu somehow being in the frontlines of the LU arc set the precedent so I can let that one slide, but Saten just screams lolwut?

Hah I want Index 2 already for Itsuwa~ xD

Cour is basically 1 season of an anime, usually 12/13 episodes, 2 cour is 24-26, etc. Railgun would have been fine with 1 cour (13 episodes) and have it finish up with the LU arc...but JC staff decided to go with 2 cour and we ended up with so many unneeded fillers that only cater to the otaku/lolfanboy crowd...

And yeah yuuji...who cares I find both of them annoying xD
Mar 20, 2010 4:50 AM

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well, the whole structure of Railgun feels like:

the thing I can't stand is the build-up area, especially after lvl upper. It feels like they scrambled the break and build-up episodes so it makes it really hard to get into. For example, in the Capacity-down mimi-arc we are intorduced the device...capacity down. Later in the second last, JC staff spokesperson Yandere-chan sudden goes "hey guys, it wasn't a random episode and it actually contributes to this arc in some way." It almost feels like I got trolled by thinking that they are pointless. but if you think about, the whole capacity down thing is just a conveince plot device to bring Saten into the limelight, so at the end it was still pointless...leaving behind a very annoyed -nii... if you managed to watch all of Aria, the fluffy stuff wouldn't get to you too much ;D

I have mixed feelings for Shana. I mean, there are good memories of shana fighting and yuuji actually killing shit. But the end of 2nd season was so poorly executed it just leaves be with an extrememly bad after taste (things are just too rushed towards the end). the relationship part of Shana is also distasteful but it nothing I can't handle.

well, I'm still not getting the 'batshit' part but I know what u mean now. well, Kihara's appearance was certainly over-done. They should have made it more like yandere-chan, usually normal looking and BAM! Rape Face Bonaza!!!!
the fact that Kihara looks so psychotic actually made me think she plays a good role (I would give the example of Stein from soul eater but since you haven't read/watched it b4...)

Uiharu was more there by accident. for all you know, it could have been Saten and things wouldn't change too much... well she navigated Kihara so I guess it's alright.

I actually call a season 12-13 episodes and a 24-26 episoder (say Railgun) a 'two-season anime'. LU got up to episode 16 didn't it? (i would know because i was hoping for a sister arc while looking at the weeks fly by =.=)

Ryuuji was cool...or was he just another generic harem lead O_O?
Mar 21, 2010 1:15 AM

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Well the story arc after lvlupper is purely anime original courtesy of JC staff. I have yet to watch an anime where they don't end up butchering it with unnecessary fillers and original material (hi shana!). I pretty much zoned out everything in between the LU arc and the umm batshitpsycho lady arc. Well maybe zoned out is the wrong word for it...forgettable perhaps? Yeah completely forgettable is the perfect way to explain the events in between the two arcs.

HEY SATEN YOU AREN'T REALLY USELESS AFTER ALL! YEY POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

Again what you are thinking of is JC staff utilizing their creative minds to butcher the source...

Yandere does not a lolbatshitpsycho lady make! Sure she has the yan part...but no way in hell is she dere. And I still find the psycho look completely unnecessary. I actually like being surprised by the show I'm watching whenever I miss foreshadowing clues earlier on. Though since subtlety is not in the jcstaff dictionary, I can only facepalm as I think "okay i get it she's the antagonist...stop showing the damn closeup smirks already!"

Well the point is that Uiharu is at least an esper of note and is a member of judgment. Regardless of how useless her current abilities are, she's still a part of judgment so it's within the realms of plausibility she is where she is. But who need lolharu and her artificial flower headband when you have Saten and her bat that glows with an awesome power?

cour/cur/however you wanna spell it is more accurate, but yeah a season works too.

And thus the crux of my argument! The Sisters arc wasn't even finished yet in the railgun manga when they decided to go 2 cour. Rather obvious that jcstaff will go will completely original material after LU as well as unnecessary fillers in between, but this could have all been prevented if they just went 1 cour...hah well at least Railgun was successful enough to the point that it pretty much guarantees Index 2!

I found Ryuuji to be annoying and his defining feature to be rather pointless. Well at least he's still less annoying than other harem leads, but oh well at least he's a lolicon xD
Mar 21, 2010 3:52 AM

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forgettable is right lol XD! all i remember is a string of side-character specific episodes

apparently, JC asked the original creator to rack up those fillers so i'm not about the butchering part. but seeing as most of the net seems to be happy about what happened in railgun, I've been in the impression that we're being over-critical (or maybe we're just immune to fan-service,making us a bit better-off than moe-otakus)

when you talk about yandere like that, I makes me think that Railgun should be watched with a Nanoha mentality. I mean, there's nothing in railgun that isn't obvious (except Kihara for me, she looks so evil that I thought she's actually not evil...well, in a sense I'm right)

I think the pyscho look is another kinda of service and shouldn't be delved in too deeply plot-wise.

but no one except Uiharu knows who to navigate around the complex roads of Academy City. they''re not gonna drop her back off at judgement HQ after getting directions

perhaps you can say that JC got over-excited after Index the 1st and announced Railgun too early. Certainly the filler-ful Railgun was not a planned attempt to troll DX

so who IS the best harem lead?

best:
I would say Rin from Shuffle. I mean, he
Mar 21, 2010 5:16 AM

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LOL BIG SPIDAH!!!

Well the thing is that while the 'filler' material may have had guidance from the series creator...all the unnecessary crap they inserted in between certainly doesn't belong there. The interesting part is that those who found Index to be disappointing (stuck rather close to the source) found Railgun to be highly enjoyable (deviated greatly from the source and then some). One can only conclude that the general viewership of the English community prefers fluff over plot. Of course my sample size is rather small so whatever xD

I don't consider lolbatshitpsycho lady fanservice...unless you have a huge thing for psycho women who aren't even yandere. Yeah I like my yanderes, not batshitpsycho ladies =P

Yeah we need lolharu and her annoying self to carry drinks for everyone! God knows Mikoto works off a sweat kicking ass and deserves nothing but a cold one! xD

Not really...they could have made Railgun just 1 cour and everything would have been fine, but I suppose getting excited and making it 2 cour explains quite a bit.

Best harem lead is Tohno Shiki =P
(don't really know much about Shuffle other than greatly drawn bishojos so can't comment much on that, but yeah that is indeed gar...emo?)
Mar 21, 2010 6:09 AM

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how bout LOL MEGANE ANTI-SKILLZ!!!

I was thinking more fanservice as in "people would like to see a rape face" kinda service :)

we need lolharu to get taken hostage so the gallant railgun-sama can save her from the clutches of evil?

question, lvl upper was 16 episodes so it wouldn't fit in one cour anyway...unless they cut a bit at the start (even though it was manga material)

gar-emo is right XD.. I don't think Shuffle is your thing so don't worry about it

well, if we're going to talk about VN then I can't say much (since galgame I've played like...3) but Okazaki Tomoya would be the better one XD
Mar 21, 2010 6:45 AM

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MY EYEBROWS SHALL PIERCE THROUGH THE HEAVENS!

Problem with that is the face she makes is the antithesis of the "you're gonna get raped" face. What I saw was a deranged lunatic who has a few screws loose in the head, but is somehow a personable lady until the lolprotagonists-are-here-to-save-the-day comes to the rescue! We can get into the ridiculousness of the bot she used a la Geass style...

Ugh we don't need a "damsel in distress" character to actually be in distress given lolharu's performance with the level crystal arc thingy. How dare you accuse the friend I just met a couple of hours ago of being the one responsible for the Poltergeist thingymajig when all the evidence we have so far points to her as a person of interest?

You forget that they inserted random episodic crap in between that arc!

EP2 - Pretty much half the episode was filler...hell they stretched a single break chapter that just had Kuroko and Mikoto cleaning the pool into a full one...

EP3 - Pure filler with loleyebrows girl.

EP5 - I think these events occur after the LU arc, but it could fit in there so I'll give this one a pass.

EP8 - Official start of LU arc with a pointless deviation from the manga...

EP12 - LU arc ends

EP13/14 - Filler

EP15/16 - Skill-out arc...filler

EP17/19 - More pointless filler

EP20/24 - Poltergeist arc...also filler but we'll call this an actual story arc

So each of the major arcs (with LU arc I'll consider canon) only lasted 5 episodes; hell LU arc ended at episode 12 which exactly fits 1 cour! They could have made it 13 episodes and ended it in a slice of life manner or even leave us at a cliffhanger with a cameo of an imouto, but no they had to put us in the meatgrinder. Though I suppose they knew their audience and made a show that catered perfectly to said audience...

Shuffle has cute girls but no translation so not gonna bother =P
(I heard the anime had this batshit girl named Kaede...)

Actually I don't even consider Clannad a harem...though I may be just bias since there is no ero-ero in it.
Mar 21, 2010 1:46 PM

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whoops, got my intel wrong on the episode order XP

but don't you find that kinda rape face...kinda refreshing?

Uiharu puts herself as a girl before her role as a judegment, which is the kinda thing I hate the most. Kuroko was extremly awesome throughout the whole arc (MVP of the arc?). she kept her cool and was the only one who was doing the right thing XD

I'm still at a loss as to what kinda audience would see Railgun as god though...

not all harems have ero?
Mar 22, 2010 1:02 AM

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I don't mind rape faces as long as there is a justifiable reason for it. lolbatshitpsycho lady came outta nowhere just for the same of making her even more evil...

Uiharu is just annoying compared to Kuroko, who is the same age as her. She takes naive to an entirely new level, but I suppose it was refreshing till she got on my nerves. Kuroko is indeed awesome, but I didn't like how they made her into such a psycho character with her "onee-sama." While it's canon, I feel like they overdid it a bit.

Railgun has moe? I only really watched Railgun due to the manga and the Index anime so I can't really comprehend their viewpoint =P

But all ero has harem...I think? Anyway Tomoya is still not a harem lead in my book since Clannad isn't really a story like that...
Mar 22, 2010 2:30 AM

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over-did it was a great word to describe even the entire two cours

Kuroko did it in Index too, but in a less masochistic way which was full of win. not only did railgun over did it, they made Kuroko into some sex-crazy Maso who enjoys a good thunderbolt... not good

moe is more an subjective thing. as they say, one man's trash is another man's moe ;)

then despite the ero, FsN wouldn't be a proper harem (Ataraxia yes, but not FsN)
Mar 22, 2010 3:48 AM

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KAMEHAMEHA RAILGUN!!!

Kuroko in the light novels isn't even that extreme, hell railgun manga Kuroko is just your typical lovestruck yuriyuri love girl. It really is such a shame that they degenerated her character so, but I suppose her moments of awesome counterbalances this somewhat.

Well indeed moe is a subjective thing, but I believe there are characters out there that one will universally find to be moe. I think a good example of this is either Shana or Nadeko of Bakemono. You really have to redefine your definition of moe if you don't HNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGHHHHH at Nadeko! xD

Well if I got my japajutsu right, galge is the one predominantly with harems right? Is FSN even a galge? o-O
Mar 22, 2010 5:53 AM

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you should rephrase that last sentence:

"but I soppose her somwhat memonets of awesomene counterbalances this

I mean, Kongou (i think that's her name) was more epic than Kuroko in that last arc DX

you never know, there might be otakus somewhere who are "flower headband" moe or "girl with metal bat" moe...oh wait, that last one is done already =.=

but FsN has ero, thus must be galge?
Mar 23, 2010 3:35 AM

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Well her fight with that refractor dude was pretty epic in some way? Though yeah her numerous moments of obsession does far outweigh her moments of awesome...

Well personally I think 'moe' is a feeling you get, not a look of some kind. Maybe that's why one's definition of moe is different from person to person?

Yeah but galge usually uses the harem as its central team and tack on a story along with it. FSN is really more about the story and the characters that get dragged along with it?

And looking at jonjons edit of the cover page...wow I feel wholefully inadequate about my editing skills. I mean wow yeah I know I suck, but sheesh a guy 4 years my junior is kicking my ass quite spectacularly...

I need to go lament my woes at a corner somewhere...
Mar 23, 2010 4:12 AM

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if a builing is destroyed, epicness is ensured

moe is a feeling you get due to a look of some kind? (technically you're right since the literal meaning of the kanji 'moe' is bloom)

so was there a person/team/faction moving the plot along, thus dragging everyone else with it?

Shirou is kinda like a policeman, whenever there's an unrest he'll be there... which is Archer (arriving after the incident occured)

don't lose heart, Toad-dono!
well, you'll always be the best language advisor in N.Love XD
Mar 23, 2010 5:58 AM

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...I think Shin has a better command of the English language than I...

...
...
...

*cries*

Hmm rather excited with the last scans of HC. This will technically be our first 'in-house' project we've completed so far. Kanon doesn't really count since there was outside help involved, but it's still our first completed project.

Btw the To Aru novels are pretty epic from what I understand making sense of the gibberish machine translators spew out :D
Mar 23, 2010 5:16 PM

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well, we should start thinking about what we're doing next no?

a. new manga


b. Kanon 4 Koma: I'm thinking we can do this but not as a regular release... since we have two ediotrs now so why not
Mar 24, 2010 2:09 AM

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I'm more for new manga since neither I nor jonjon seem to be that interested in working on the 4komas. You also mentioned that it was a pain in the ass to translate so I think it may not be worth it. Though still unsure as to which manga we should work on...

This discussion shall continue in the manga thread!
Mar 24, 2010 3:01 AM
Apr 6, 2010 6:51 PM

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Sorry for going MIA for so long. I finished this over the weekend but didn't get a chance to upload it until now. To give you some ques of what I've been doing recently:

My brother's graduation present in the work:


Some lucrative offers I've been getting and pursuing:




This beast of a machine someone sold me for $500 on Craigslist (note the Corsair 800D case, worth $300 alone).


And, by far the BIGGEST culprit for my MIA, Eyefinity




Last but certainly not the least, FA05

PimpToadApr 6, 2010 6:55 PM
Apr 6, 2010 6:58 PM

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Spoiler tagged your posts to save space =P

Anyway...

#1 - AMD? bleh ;)

#2/3 - I know like...half of what you've listed...but alas I'm heading into another career path so its mostly useless knowledge to me now =(

#4 - Should really lurk craigslist for cheap stuff...cool rig

#5 - Triple monitors? YOU BASTARD! So...they IPS panels?

And I'll get started on FA05 right away...is what I'd like to say, but the Sharin fandisk is staring at me...but I'll get it out...soon?
Apr 6, 2010 7:08 PM

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#1 - Not so bad when you get a 785 motherboard, X3 720 unlocked at X4 965 speed all for $99. That entire thing cost $180 and only thing it's missing is a dedicated gpu (though 4200 isn't half bad for htpc).

#2 - Well, I'm actually looking more into db and sec, but the market in this shitstorm economy for the past 2 years is preventing a LOT of people from finding a job, let alone a career change.

#4 - Yea, i7, x58 Classified, HX1000, Dominators, 800D. Those alone are easily worth double the $500 I paid, even used. I later bought a 5970 for $360 to go with it. I can't believe people are bitching about it not being able to max Crysis while displaying 6 megapixels of real estate.

#5 - Middle one is ips. TN really isn't that bad, except some bleeding on the left panel when rendering complete black.

fuck that's out? lol yea FA06 is a longgggg time away
Apr 6, 2010 9:06 PM
Apr 6, 2010 9:41 PM

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Yep don't be a stranger now!

And hmm not like I'll be able to edit FA05 anytime soon since I have to divert all my editing time to FoA06...then I'll probably read through the fandisk first...then FA05! Just don't take another half a year to get the script out ;)
Apr 17, 2010 4:47 PM

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And Houzuki remains nothing more than a catalyst that drives the story in Sharin; just like his predecessor before him. His role in Sharin is nothing more than that of a villain, just like his predecessor before him. He played his role to perfection, but core differences to Ari attributes to his awesomeness.

He is the protagonist of his own story (fandisc), but he passed on the torch to Kenichi; who is in fact the protagonist of the main game. I think that to be symbolic in the overall message and symbolism of Sharin no Kuni.

The entire Sharin no Kuni series tells his story, motivation, actions and consequences, and resolutions.

err doesn't that fit Kenichi better? He wouldn't even fit that in the slightest if it wasn't for the fandisc, which provides his entire backstory and the reason for his actions in the main game. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if Houzuki developed at all as a character during the main storyline...but he didn't. He adopted the role of villain and just played it out.

Well the cliffhanger ending...isn't really a cliffhanger ending at all. Think of it as how Cowboy Bebop ended. We know what happens, everything in the story says it happens that way, but they added in the ambiguity for the hell of it.

And I thought Houzuki's action to be something he should have done...16-17 years ago. Perhaps a case of too little too late? Maybe it would be best to say that he was nothing more than a fool? Well both Houzuki and Kenichi were fools, but Kenichi was the one who broke from the cycle and surpassed Houzuki...which again I believe goes back to the entire symbolic meaning of the title Sharin no Kuni.

Woo wallz of text :D
Apr 18, 2010 4:33 PM

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Ugh catalyst is an agent that propels an reaction. Houzuki didn't propel anything. He directly CAUSED the scenarios in the story. If he was simply a villain in the original story, he would have finished off Kenichi in many ponits of the story instead of letting him go. It does not fit Kenichi, because the story speaks of his REactions. It doesn't explore (as deeply) his motives or the resolution after the story other than generic romance endings tacked on in the fandisc.

You have to realize that Sharin no Kuni is more about exploring systems and ideals more so than characters. None of the characters in the story really gets developed beyond what is necessary to fully realize these ideas. Think back on any of the memorable quotes in the story. How many of them describe the system and philosophy, and how many of them speak out on each character's individuality and personality? I also guarantee that most of these quotes come from Houzuki. That is because Looseboy chose Houzuki as the primary medium to carry his ideas across.

Houzuki couldn't have done anything any earlier than he did at the end of the fandisc. In fact, Morita IS the reason that Houzuki sought closure in the end. Houzuki tested him to reaffirm his belief that the wheel of the system does indeed reign above any personal beliefs he held as demonstrated in the fandisc by the events decades ago. Houzuki is surprised not because of any direct result of Morita's action, but the fact that Kenichi confirmed his thoughts and feelings from decades ago. In fact, I would call it relief more so than surprise or shock. That is why he pushed Morita to the extreme not once, but 3 times, to see whether the system reigns supreme without exception, the very idea he challenged and failed to disprove years ago. It's not hard to feel his unease and anticipation as he stands on top of that well waiting for Morita to climbs up, step by step.

As I said, I think the cliffhanger is as intended. It lets people concentrate on the ideal each of the character represents as opposed to any individual results as the result from holding on to those beliefs.
Apr 18, 2010 7:41 PM

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gonna quote stuff since text bricks get confusing to read

Ugh catalyst is an agent that propels an reaction. Houzuki didn't propel anything. He directly CAUSED the scenarios in the story.


...and I'm saying that Houzuki acted as the catalyst to propel Kenichi's story by acting the role of villain/proctor of the SHCI exam. Going by your definition, we can say that Ari herself caused the scenarios in the entire story as well as acting as the overall antagonist of Sharin no Kuni.

It doesn't explore (as deeply) his motives or the resolution after the story other than generic romance endings tacked on in the fandisc.


Now that's a rather unfair assessment of his character. His entire story was told in the main game while he plays a secondary role (happy end epilogue) to the backstory (prologue) of Masaomi in the fandisc.

You have to realize that Sharin no Kuni is more about exploring systems and ideals more so than characters. None of the characters in the story really gets developed beyond what is necessary to fully realize these ideas. Think back on any of the memorable quotes in the story. How many of them describe the system and philosophy, and how many of them speak out on each character's individuality and personality? I also guarantee that most of these quotes come from Houzuki. That is because Looseboy chose Houzuki as the primary medium to carry his ideas across.


And I say that Sharin no Kuni is a story of how each of the characters overcome the limitations society has imposed on them with Houzuki acting as the "ideal" of that society. Why do you think Houzuki let Kenichi go in the end? Just a different viewpoint of the story I suppose so let's agree to disagree on this one?

Houzuki couldn't have done anything any earlier than he did at the end of the fandisc. In fact, Morita IS the reason that Houzuki sought closure in the end. Houzuki tested him to reaffirm his belief that the wheel of the system does indeed reign above any personal beliefs he held as demonstrated in the fandisc by the events decades ago. Houzuki is surprised not because of any direct result of Morita's action, but the fact that Kenichi confirmed his thoughts and feelings from decades ago. In fact, I would call it relief more so than surprise or shock. That is why he pushed Morita to the extreme not once, but 3 times, to see whether the system reigns supreme without exception, the very idea he challenged and failed to disprove years ago. It's not hard to feel his unease and anticipation as he stands on top of that well waiting for Morita to climbs up, step by step.


Houzuki and Kenichi both faced the same impossible circumstances in the end; though the situation they faced is vastly different, the impossibility was still the same. The key difference is that Kenichi decided to move on forward while Houzuki admitted defeat. He fully expected Kenichi to turn back rather than move on forward; which would reaffirm his belief that the system does reign supreme and that there are limitations as to what one is capable of. The fact that he not only decided to move forward but overcome the impossible situation both surprised and shocked him. Not sure if I can say a sense of relief, but maybe acceptance that he was wrong?

Though I think I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "in the end." Are you talking about the very end of the fandisc or the main game?

As I said, I think the cliffhanger is as intended. It lets people concentrate on the ideal each of the character represents as opposed to any individual results as the result from holding on to those beliefs.


And I say it's not really much of a cliffhanger when the end result is as good as cemented in stone. Though I suppose I define cliffhangers as an unknown point in the story in which I don't know what will happen next so this may be just a case of semantics.

I think the fact that he undertook that mission meant that he hit a "reset" button to everything he stood for. It makes for a nice ending sure, but I felt that it invalidated everything he has done in the story of Sharin no Kuni. He made his choice in the fandisc, ran with it in the main story, and he just decided to throw it all away in the end by unlocking the proverbial lock to his heart.

He hit the crossroads of his life during the climax of his arc. His path to life was already decided before him until he hits the next crossroad that either leads him to continue on that path or go down the road to fulfill the reason as to why he became a SHCI in the first place. That third option shouldn't have existed at all (the bust into the concentration camp commando style to save the woman he has forsaken)...but it did hence the reset button. We suddenly find ourselves back to the events of 15-17? years ago; back to that crossroad that changed his life. He took the logical path the first time...now he decides to follow his heart and the irrationality behind it. Well at least that's how I saw it anyway?

Damn that was long...
PimpToadApr 18, 2010 7:45 PM
Apr 19, 2010 5:20 AM

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I guess one of the difference is that I saw the entire Sharin no Kuni series as one story. The original one had no closure - Kenichi climbed to the top of the well just to find the "antagonist" waiting.... and he just lets him go? No story is complete without climax, falling action, and a resolution, and the original was just a roller coaster ride to the top without any of the three.

Houzuki may not be as firm in his belief as it seems. If he is, there is no point in pushing Kenichi to such extremes as to make him go through what Houzuki himself went through not once but 3 times, as clearly demonstrated at the beginning of the story when he finished off the girl that went to help save the criminal. In each of the three case, Kenichi clear bent, twisted, and broke the system in order to "defeat" it. If Houzuki is really so resolute in his belief in the system, why bother letting Kenichi go so lightly or at all?

I use the term "cliffhanger" loosely and should probably replace it with something better. I meant that the fact that Looseboy did not give a concrete ending is to make the readers concentrate on the implications behind the actions and not the consequences.

I'd write more but yea I got less than 2 hours to cover the 120 miles between my parent's house and my work place so I'm basically already late lol...

edit: I find it very hard to see it any other way regarding why Houzuki let Kenichi go in the end, especially after finishing the fandisc. Perhaps try reading it back to back might make the relation between the two clearer?

ok last edit before I become REALLY late. As much as you'd like to associate Masaomi with the system, he is still a human. He assumed the role of Houzuki, but he is first and foremost Masaomi. I feel like he did the things he did to Kenichi to reaffirm what he believed to be right all along, and the "ending" ending did not take away or invalidate anything at all. I guess I shouldn't have used the names interchangeably. That is all.
Apr 19, 2010 5:07 PM

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I guess one of the difference is that I saw the entire Sharin no Kuni series as one story. The original one had no closure - Kenichi climbed to the top of the well just to find the "antagonist" waiting.... and he just lets him go? No story is complete without climax, falling action, and a resolution, and the original was just a roller coaster ride to the top without any of the three.

Yeah I just saw the series as a journey for the protagonists (Kenichi in the main series and Houzuki with the fandisc). I guess how the main game ended warranted the fandisc due to the ambiguity of it? Though the epilogue of the fandisc did little to expand on that ending; which I suppose needs little explanation given Houzuki's character?

Houzuki may not be as firm in his belief as it seems. If he is, there is no point in pushing Kenichi to such extremes as to make him go through what Houzuki himself went through not once but 3 times, as clearly demonstrated at the beginning of the story when he finished off the girl that went to help save the criminal. In each of the three case, Kenichi clear bent, twisted, and broke the system in order to "defeat" it. If Houzuki is really so resolute in his belief in the system, why bother letting Kenichi go so lightly or at all?

I think Touka and Sachi didn't really count since Kenichi himself wasn't that emotionally invested in them compared to Natsumi. Houzuki himself found a resemblance in Natsumi to Mina. I felt that everything Houzuki subject Kenichi into was to prepare him for the eventual challenge of Natsumi; whom Kenichi was closest to as well as having a resemblance to his own beloved. Kenichi only started to mirror Houzuki's during the Natsumi arc imo.

As for his belief in the system...he may just be fooling himself. He wants to believe his choices were the correct one, but deep down he knows he's made a terrible mistake. Think that's where the whole "closing off my heart into the darkness" comes from. It would be easier if you quote me on what I say since I honestly just forget what I write hours after =P

I use the term "cliffhanger" loosely and should probably replace it with something better. I meant that the fact that Looseboy did not give a concrete ending is to make the readers concentrate on the implications behind the actions and not the consequences.

Hmm it depends on what you mean by concrete ending since he did walk a separate path during the Ririko ending, but the Natsumi ending is the canon ending of the story. You may be right in a sense that Houzuki is indeed the protagonist of the series, but Kenichi was the one who achieved the desired ending Houzuki wanted.

I'd write more but yea I got less than 2 hours to cover the 120 miles between my parent's house and my work place so I'm basically already late lol...

Holy hell that's a long commute...hope you invested in a hybrid :O

edit: I find it very hard to see it any other way regarding why Houzuki let Kenichi go in the end, especially after finishing the fandisc. Perhaps try reading it back to back might make the relation between the two clearer?


Uhh you mean me or you? Again quote is your friend =P

ok last edit before I become REALLY late. As much as you'd like to associate Masaomi with the system, he is still a human. He assumed the role of Houzuki, but he is first and foremost Masaomi. I feel like he did the things he did to Kenichi to reaffirm what he believed to be right all along, and the "ending" ending did not take away or invalidate anything at all. I guess I shouldn't have used the names interchangeably. That is all.


Yeah hence why I mentioned how he walled himself off so he can become a part of that system. Ari herself did the same, but the key difference is that Akutsu just walled himself off while I believe Ari has truly fallen victim to the system. Yes I agree that what he did to Kenichi was a way to reaffirm his beliefs, but Kenichi proved him wrong time and time again. I still feel like the ending was a reset just for something awesome to happen...but I suppose Akutsu was already irrational before he became Houzuki.

Beauty of this is that neither one of us is correct. Makes for a great topic when no party can be totally correct on any point :D
Apr 19, 2010 11:52 PM

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Well, from what I remembered reading on some random magazine, Looseboy wrote the "main story" with no ending as a way to milk some extra cash for the fandisc, so the two is in essence one game split in two parts. While it made sense after reading the whole thing, letting Kenichi go in the end of the main game is totally uncharacteristic of Houzuki, made no sense whatsoever, and was one of the biggest complaints until the fandisc came out.

Yes, exactly, Sachi and Touka was preparation for Natsumi (obstacle wise). Which is why I said Houzuki pushed Kenichi to the extreme, to confirm his deeply buried belief that when pushed to an absurd limit, individuals can break free of the wheels of the society and the chains of rules.

Yea I really need to use quotes. When I said that Looseboy did not give a "concrete" ending, I was referring to Masaomi's last stunt and confrontation at the very end of the entire series.

Nope, driving S80 T6, chews through gas faster than I go through visual novels, takes $60 to fill up the tank LOL yea would be funny if it wasn't my car....

The reading back to back comment was meant for you. As I said, I believe that he let Kenichi go due to the relief he felt and the decision he made at that point which led to his eventual confrontation with Ari.

I meant reaffirming his belief as in the same belief Masaomi shares with Kenichi deep down inside. To me, it wasn't simply a "reset button." The main storyline in Kenichi was the catalyst that propelled Masaomi's change of heart. Saying it's simply a reset button is denying his decades of denial; the agony he had to go through with Kenichi's father; the reason he raised, pushed, and confronted Kenichi; and the closure he sought after Kenichi's actions strengthened his own resolve that he was right all along.
Apr 20, 2010 1:25 AM

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1397
Well, from what I remembered reading on some random magazine, Looseboy wrote the "main story" with no ending as a way to milk some extra cash for the fandisc, so the two is in essence one game split in two parts. While it made sense after reading the whole thing, letting Kenichi go in the end of the main game is totally uncharacteristic of Houzuki, made no sense whatsoever, and was one of the biggest complaints until the fandisc came out.


I wouldn't say totally uncharacteristic, but at the very least it was bizarre. I mean consider the facts we knew before the fandisc came out. Houzuki knew that Kenichi was Higuchi Ken, son of Higuchi Saburou. The fact that he even picked him up back then was bizarre enough; though I think the main game did mention that Houzuki and Saburou were friends? Those are all I can think of at the moment, but it's not totally uncharacteristic when he already picked up Ken way back when.

Yes, exactly, Sachi and Touka was preparation for Natsumi (obstacle wise). Which is why I said Houzuki pushed Kenichi to the extreme, to confirm his deeply buried belief that when pushed to an absurd limit, individuals can break free of the wheels of the society and the chains of rules.

So can we classify Houzuki as some form of tsundere then? Well maybe not, but he sure hell doesn't practice what he preaches!

Yea I really need to use quotes. When I said that Looseboy did not give a "concrete" ending, I was referring to Masaomi's last stunt and confrontation at the very end of the entire series.

Well this looseboy fellow obviously likes to "milk" things so I suppose he (she?) wrote it in this direction to generate discussion about the ending.

The reading back to back comment was meant for you. As I said, I believe that he let Kenichi go due to the relief he felt and the decision he made at that point which led to his eventual confrontation with Ari.

I think it was that and some kind of reward by letting Kenichi have the happy end he never got, but wanted so badly deep down inside. And Ari completely surprised Masaomi during his raid so it's not much of an "eventual confrontation." Only been around a month and a half or so (give or take some change) since I finished the main series so things should still be rather fresh.

I meant reaffirming his belief as in the same belief Masaomi shares with Kenichi deep down inside. To me, it wasn't simply a "reset button." The main storyline in Kenichi was the catalyst that propelled Masaomi's change of heart. Saying it's simply a reset button is denying his decades of denial; the agony he had to go through with Kenichi's father; the reason he raised, pushed, and confronted Kenichi; and the closure he sought after Kenichi's actions strengthened his own resolve that he was right all along.

That's what boggles me about Houzuki Masaomi's character. He somehow knew that he was right all along, yet needed Kenichi to reaffirm his beliefs? The fact that he needed some kind of proof just showed how conflicted his view point is. Talk about the dad having absurd expectations of his son.

By reset I meant how he just cast away everything you just said just so he can go ahead and return back to mama. Such a contrived development all for an epic cliffhanger ending to raise discussion such as the one we are having now.

Meh I supposed I'm too biased since I thought Houzuki was just an (evil) magnificent bastard during the main game. Rather odd to see that kind of character get elevated to the main character in the entire series due to a fandisc.
Apr 20, 2010 4:25 PM

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motherfucker I had this huge ass response typed up and Chrome crashed. I even used QUOTES this time. That's it Google you may make kick ass search engines, I'm never using your browser again
Apr 20, 2010 4:44 PM

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WOW AND THIS TIME THE SYSTEM CRASHED RIGHT. ON. THE. LAST. FUCKING. PARAGRAPH.

god has spoken and I shall not respond

NOT

Fuck you chrome I'll finish this post even if it takes me all night
Apr 20, 2010 5:02 PM

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Sick psychopath adopting the son of his best friend whom was murdered to suffer through what he did sounds pretty much in line with the Houzuki presented in the original story line. Putting him on verge of death numerous time and outmaneuvering him to the very end and letting him go? Not so much.

Looseboy's a he, and yea there's some dedicated fanatics out there. Someone spent 2 months to write an analysis on Sumisora about the series that weighs in over a hundred thousand words.

I concur on the reason he let Kenichi go.

I think some of your conceptions may stem from the way the series is structured more so than the actual events. It's not like Masaomi just one day randomly decided, "shit dude this system is impossible to surpass" and change his mind the next. The event in the fandisc happened long before the main story, not right before the epilogue. He already tried his best and failed. It's not like he can make another Mina as a practice dummy and give it another go, which is in essence what Touka and Sachi are even though I know it's a gross simplification and generalization. That's why he so painstakingly laid down the scenarios and picked the girls for Morita, because he knows he can do exactly just that. It takes a great deal of conviction to do what Kenichi did and what Masaomi did at the end. When all odds are against you, what will YOU do? It's like that old Chinese proverb about calling deer a horse. One person trying to convince you and it's laughable. What about 5 people? a hundred people? What if everyone in an entire city tells you that something you know to be true is false? Can you still hold steadfast to your belief? In cases like this, even if just one bystander steps up and break the mold, the effects are unmeasurable.
Apr 20, 2010 5:04 PM

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Aug 2007
1397
Heh converted to firefox many a year ago and never looked back :D

Was experiencing the same thing with the comments over here a couple months ago...funny how it mysteriously got fixed without me having to do anything?
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