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Poll: Little Busters!: Refrain Episode 13 Discussion


Dec 28, 2013 4:44 PM
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TheSonicohxk said:
I just saw the raw... but i must say i'm kinda dissappointed. :(

Don't get me wrong, for the anime as a standalone, this was awesome. But if you have played the visual novel... It's just not the same.

It was the same with Clanand, i guess. The plot about the boy getting the girls, so at the end he use all the orbs to make his wish come true. But in the anime they didn't use it exactly like that and change some story and left out some stuff, making all a litte bit confusing, and still is one of the best animes.

LB:Refrain is the same.
Without mentioning that i'm a Kurugaya-fag, she deserves more than all the other heroines. Because of the theories about Kurugaya's true end(which are well debated and explained in this post http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=650837) until now, isn't wrong to asume that Kurugaya x Riki pairing is canon. At least, more than the others.
The hierarchy would be something like this, in my opinion:
1.- Kurugaya.
2.- Ex routes.
3.- Rin.

Why?

1.- Kurugaya has her true ending after refrain, meaning, in the real world. Next, from the CD's it's safe to assume the characters remember all the related to their whishes:
Rin: to get stronger
Komari: get over her brothers death
Kud: get over her mothers death
Haruka: reconcile with her sister
Mio: accept herself.
Kurugaya: Learn human emotions, which she didn't really got in the first playthrough.
Also, at the end of the last route of Refrain(the second), Riki tells us about how the girls are doing. He say thinks like "haruka and her sister get along" and "mio seems to accept herself" while with Kurugaya he says "she has a bittersweet smile". And the game ends there. Then you play it again(Refrain already completed) and Kurugaya finally confess her felings to Riki(while Riki remembers his own's). That's enough to say: They are canon.

2.- Ex routes are all after refrain, i think, i haven't seen them cuz the aren't english i think, but i'm loking for videos with subs. But basically their routes happen in the real world, at least Sasami's, since Komiri remembers about the imaginary world and her wish.

3.- The first run of Refrain isn't really canon. You have to play it again, and then Rin doesn't confess to Riki in the hospital(i guess peple who just saw the anime won't get this xD) Basically i'm saying that in the last true route(besides Kurugaya's, which happens after this), Rin and Riki really didn't get to be couple, but they could.

You people should read the VN. I did it with Kanon and Clannad and learn that animes really aren't as good as the original, that's why with Little Busters i decided to read it first, and i'm glad.

Basically i was excepting at least some litte hints from Kurugaya's true route. Just he saying "but Kurugaya seems to have a bittersweet smile" i could have been like "YEAH! THEY ARE GONNA END UP TOGETHER!". But i didn't get even that. Just that thing give this feeling about the anime's ending. But it was in fact good, just not as the original.
TheSonicohxk said:
I just saw the raw... but i must say i'm kinda dissappointed. :(

Don't get me wrong, for the anime as a standalone, this was awesome. But if you have played the visual novel... It's just not the same.

It was the same with Clanand, i guess. The plot about the boy getting the girls, so at the end he use all the orbs to make his wish come true. But in the anime they didn't use it exactly like that and change some story and left out some stuff, making all a litte bit confusing, and still is one of the best animes.

LB:Refrain is the same.
Without mentioning that i'm a Kurugaya-fag, she deserves more than all the other heroines. Because of the theories about Kurugaya's true end(which are well debated and explained in this post http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=650837) until now, isn't wrong to asume that Kurugaya x Riki pairing is canon. At least, more than the others.
The hierarchy would be something like this, in my opinion:
1.- Kurugaya.
2.- Ex routes.
3.- Rin.

Why?

1.- Kurugaya has her true ending after refrain, meaning, in the real world. Next, from the CD's it's safe to assume the characters remember all the related to their whishes:
Rin: to get stronger
Komari: get over her brothers death
Kud: get over her mothers death
Haruka: reconcile with her sister
Mio: accept herself.
Kurugaya: Learn human emotions, which she didn't really got in the first playthrough.
Also, at the end of the last route of Refrain(the second), Riki tells us about how the girls are doing. He say thinks like "haruka and her sister get along" and "mio seems to accept herself" while with Kurugaya he says "she has a bittersweet smile". And the game ends there. Then you play it again(Refrain already completed) and Kurugaya finally confess her felings to Riki(while Riki remembers his own's). That's enough to say: They are canon.

2.- Ex routes are all after refrain, i think, i haven't seen them cuz the aren't english i think, but i'm loking for videos with subs. But basically their routes happen in the real world, at least Sasami's, since Komiri remembers about the imaginary world and her wish.

3.- The first run of Refrain isn't really canon. You have to play it again, and then Rin doesn't confess to Riki in the hospital(i guess peple who just saw the anime won't get this xD) Basically i'm saying that in the last true route(besides Kurugaya's, which happens after this), Rin and Riki really didn't get to be couple, but they could.

You people should read the VN. I did it with Kanon and Clannad and learn that animes really aren't as good as the original, that's why with Little Busters i decided to read it first, and i'm glad.

Basically i was excepting at least some litte hints from Kurugaya's true route. Just he saying "but Kurugaya seems to have a bittersweet smile" i could have been like "YEAH! THEY ARE GONNA END UP TOGETHER!". But i didn't get even that. Just that thing give this feeling about the anime's ending. But it was in fact good, just not as the original.


EX routes are really great too. I'm not gonna try to spoiler you, but you will find a very exciting scene from one of the route telling you other heroine's story is still continue. Just enjoy ;P

For Kud route, I have to disagree with you a little bit. Based on all the endings in VN, her mother's death never mentioned once and after refrain Riki even said Kud's country had some incident but solved well. So I don't think her mother is dead.

Most importantly the rocket explosion is in the dream world, JC staff even did some alternatives just told you her mother didn't died in anime too. Yeah, it's very confusing in VN, the writer of Kud route have to explain it on Kud Wafter.
 
Dec 28, 2013 4:48 PM
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I will explain the interpretation i had when i finished the VN

I think Kyousuke created with him last forces the field trip scenery because he knew Riki would try to rescue all people, and it might end with Riki also dead by narcolepsy attack, because Kyousuke never thought Riki would become enough stronger to stay calm and rescue all people so Riki would see that he can't save all, then the hospital is still another ''fake world'' because Kyousuke speaks to Riki here (this only make sense if it is a fake world) after the song for friends ending HERE THE FIRST ENDING (doesn't exist on anime)

Kyousuke asks Riki after the ending
''Its enought Riki?''
And here is when you choose Its not enought! then starts the true ending in the real world when you appear again on field trip scenery and save all people, because Riki can fight against narcolepsy if he stay calm and don't think on the possibility of lose him friends...
So there aren't any strange time leap/reset on the ending like the one we had on the routes, its simply more Kyousuke tricks to convince Riki to run and dont try to save anyone.

The first ending is more than needed, but well... JC Staff didn't thought it, 5/10 for me, i hope JC Staff dont make another VN adaptation.

This is only my point of view. but i think it makes sense. Sorry if my english is quite bad.
 
Dec 28, 2013 4:52 PM
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Ol-Hybrius said:
JimRaynor said:
Ol-Hybrius said:
Vladz0r said:
It's kinda funny how people have double standards for happy endings and fell like X didn't matter because OMG perfect happy ending in the end.
People forgive Steins;Gate and Clannad After Story for doing the same thing the LB anime did, except LB's ending isn't even as contrived as something like random Okabe from the future that might as well be Nitro+ KEY MAGIC.

I think when people get to love the characters, it changes how they perceive these sort of twists and endings, and the execution and intensity of events can yield forgiveness for these endings for a lot of people.


I didn't interpret Steins;Gate ending as some kind of Key Magic actually. I only saw it once, but it seemed logical for me. Anyway, LB! has the less WTF Key Magic in my opinion. It doesn't even seem magical in the anime. Also, while the ending kinda ruined Clannad to me, LB!'s still make sense, since Riki and Rin became stronger and that's why they were able to save everyone.


You've got the point of LB! GJ!


Well, I'm a VN reader, you know. I can understand why some people are upset about the ending, but while I also rather like the bittersweet hospital ending by far, I'm still able to enjoy the happy end. First of all, because in the VN, you ARE Riki and YOUR friends died, so I was reassured to see them all safe at the end on y first paythrough. Cheesy or not. Secondo, this is not like Riki was going back to May 13th to tell everyone not to go on the field trip or something like that. Like I said, the ending, even if being confusing with time travels in dream worlds, is enjoyable because it makes sense. And being a VN reader, I knew how it would end from the beginning of the Refrain season, so I couldn't be disapointed with a final episode which go further than the original scene in the VN. In my opinion, at least.


Yeah, the point of presenting hospital scene isn't about Riki and Rin, it's about a testament when they're facing a world where any other friends died. I also think that will gonna be god-like if JC staff made that scene. But well, it is what it is, and the anime is still very outstanding for some of us, good enough.
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:03 PM
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Nemeios said:
I will explain the interpretation i had when i finished the VN

I think Kyousuke created with him last forces the field trip scenery because he knew Riki would try to rescue all people, and it might end with Riki also dead by narcolepsy attack, because Kyousuke never thought Riki would become enough stronger to stay calm and rescue all people so Riki would see that he can't save all, then the hospital is still another ''fake world'' because Kyousuke speaks to Riki here (this only make sense if it is a fake world) after the song for friends ending HERE THE FIRST ENDING (doesn't exist on anime)

Kyousuke asks Riki after the ending
''Its enought Riki?''
And here is when you choose Its not enought! then starts the true ending in the real world when you appear again on field trip scenery and save all people, because Riki can fight against narcolepsy if he stay calm and don't think on the possibility of lose him friends...
So there aren't any strange time leap/reset on the ending like the one we had on the routes, its simply more Kyousuke tricks to convince Riki to run and dont try to save anyone.

The first ending is more than needed, but well... JC Staff didn't thought it, 5/10 for me, i hope JC Staff dont make another VN adaptation.

This is only my point of view. but i think it makes sense. Sorry if my english is quite bad.


It is a testament for Riki indeed.
But JC staff didn't adapt it doesn't mean bad. The point is what you've said already: Riki can stay calm and fight against his narcolepsy. He did it, he found the reason why he got narcolepsy.

It would be god-like if they include that last testament for Riki, but still good enough because the scriptwriter of anime really catches the essence.

JC staff did a very good job on Refrain and ep9-11 are awesome. You overstated the importance of the hospital scene and lower the score of Refrain as a whole, that's real biased.
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:13 PM
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You're not the only one. That song is
yadayada said:
Wow that "Song for Friends" in the background as Riki and Rin carry everyone out of the bus :/ was it just me who shed a few tears during that scene? So sad yet so beautiful.

I really wanted to see dat Rin x Riki kiss! c'mon man why do they have to hurt me like this..
All joking aside though this is the first time ever in anime I actually approved of a gay relationship, Riki and Kyousuke would be perfect together, but I still think Rin x Riki is a match made in heaven.

The bonds these friends share is so heartwarming and beautiful and is something I hope I can have someday with others.
LOL when Masato and Kengo fell off the van!!

I'm glad everything worked out in the end for these guys. Now that this is over it's time to finish up the Rin2 route and play Refrain! 9/10


You're not the only one, I didn't cry on the rescue scene in VN, but in anime here, Gosh!
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:21 PM

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Not as powerful as the previous two episodes, but a good finale. I loved the last few minutes. Before watching this episode I was hoping they wouldn't pull a Clannad by bringing them back to life or going back in time to an alternate reality by granting wishes/magic, but they pulled off saving the class without making me cringe.
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:32 PM

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There be some ridiculous long posts in this thread.

The rescue from the bus was not that emotional imo. The whole Riki and Rin getting stronger means if they didn't repeat time to get "stronger" they would of either died with the rest or ran away from the accident and be emotional wrecked because they were too "weak" to try and save the friends they loved bc Riki and Rin were followers not leaders. Come on. It doesn't resonate with me. Glad the majority like it. It wasn't bad but it wasn't an emotional either. Had it's moments at the end but seemed awfully try hard for what it was in the end. I guess I prefer more magic in my Key shows. The magical realm in this to make Riki and Rin stronger was just cheapened by the fact that nobody actually died in the accident. They were all alive and were just rescued. Meaning Riki and Rin had the choice to save or to abdomen friends since they weren't unconscious. I don't feel this huge thing to make their wills stronger was necessary given the outcome. But again, glad everyone enjoyed it. That's what is important. Just didn't do it for me story or characters.
Modified by IZEROII, Dec 28, 2013 5:36 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:41 PM

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IZEROII said:
There be some ridiculous long posts in this thread.

The rescue from the bus was not that emotional imo. The whole Riki and Rin getting stronger means if they didn't repeat time to get "stronger" they would of either died with the rest or ran away from the accident and be emotional wrecked because they were too "weak" to try and save the friends they loved bc Riki and Rin were followers not leaders. Come on. It doesn't resonate with me. Glad the majority like it. It wasn't bad but it wasn't an emotional either. Had it's moments at the end but seemed awfully try hard for what it was in the end. I guess I prefer more magic in my Key shows. The magical realm in this to make Riki and Rin stronger was just cheapened by the fact that nobody actually died in the accident. They were all alive and were just rescued. Meaning Riki and Rin had the choice to save or to abdomen friends since they weren't unconscious. I don't feel this huge thing to make their wills stronger was necessary given the outcome. But again, glad everyone enjoyed it. That's what is important. Just didn't do it for me story or characters.


Don't mean to hate but... 'abdomen friends'? That's uh... that's a pretty big typo bro.
 
Dec 28, 2013 5:51 PM
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IZEROII said:
There be some ridiculous long posts in this thread.

The rescue from the bus was not that emotional imo. The whole Riki and Rin getting stronger means if they didn't repeat time to get "stronger" they would of either died with the rest or ran away from the accident and be emotional wrecked because they were too "weak" to try and save the friends they loved bc Riki and Rin were followers not leaders. Come on. It doesn't resonate with me. Glad the majority like it. It wasn't bad but it wasn't an emotional either. Had it's moments at the end but seemed awfully try hard for what it was in the end. I guess I prefer more magic in my Key shows. The magical realm in this to make Riki and Rin stronger was just cheapened by the fact that nobody actually died in the accident. They were all alive and were just rescued. Meaning Riki and Rin had the choice to save or to abdomen friends since they weren't unconscious. I don't feel this huge thing to make their wills stronger was necessary given the outcome. But again, glad everyone enjoyed it. That's what is important. Just didn't do it for me story or characters.


If Riki and Rin weren't strong enough, you will not able to see a healthy Riki and Rin if they can survive from the shock of the situation at the first place. Got it?
 
Dec 28, 2013 6:12 PM
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Mission complete.
My mission was to survive the whole series end to end.
It really wasn't that bad I guess so easy mission.
Maybe I should learn to trust things a little more.
And hey, who knows...now that I've completed this and shown that I can be counted on to see things through, maybe they'll start coming back.
The ones I lost in a back story not so long ago.

Oh, and of course I'll be watching EX when they come out next year.
I go by many names, some call me Hoshimaru, others call me Jiro or Aosou-Kun.
I believe myself a force for good, a papercrafter by trade, and one who seeks love and beauty animesque.

I am the host of the youtube show Who Would You Do?
 
Dec 28, 2013 6:28 PM

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What beautiful happy ending. Didn't expect that.
8.5/10
 
Dec 28, 2013 6:49 PM

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Well I guess it was alright the ending and all. Don't think it could have been done any other way. Felt a bit rushed though.

I really liked how they adapted the rescue scene from the VN. It's more concise and makes more sense.

Overall not a terrible job from J.C. Staff as I expected.

Dat bromance Kyousuke x Riki forever~
Modified by Whoozer, Dec 28, 2013 6:55 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:15 PM

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And it ended. I think i like this more than Clannad.
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:28 PM

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I had my doubts about this series in the beginning. But, i'm glad I decided to give the Little Busters the benefit of the doubt. I enjoyed this series. 7/10.
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:31 PM
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Anyone else notice Kurugaya staring at Riki at the 17:12 to 17:17 mark.

Oh yeah. Onee-san still feels something no doubt.
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:49 PM

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OMG I can't stop crying T___T. Throughout this series: Kyousuke and the others were helping Riki and Rin prepare for this incident. So they could live on without them. But Riki and Rin found the strength to save everyone from the accident. Which wasn't part of Kyusuke's plan. Yet it exceeded his expectation of Riki and Rin.

If Riki didn't wake up from his narcolepsy and he never found the strength to save them, the bus would have killed everyone except Rin? Since she was atop of the hill.

Question?
The bus exploded yet Riki, Rin, and Kyousuke are alright. Is this another dream world or are we back to the real world??
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:58 PM

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Pfft just wanted my riki and rin scene but fck it, still 6/10 for me, the episode went to quickly and had a lot of still pictures more then animation..
 
Dec 28, 2013 7:58 PM

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que magical deus ex machine ending
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:04 PM

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Is the VN like 1000 times better than this was? From the show I just don't see what all the fuss was about. This is the only Maeda story that didn't make me burst into tears.
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:06 PM
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Welcome to Key endings, they're always magical but make you feel great inside :D
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:15 PM

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AsherFischell said:
Is the VN like 1000 times better than this was? From the show I just don't see what all the fuss was about. This is the only Maeda story that didn't make me burst into tears.


Yep.
A lot of readers feel it shits on all of Key's anime, in fact, including myself of course.
It's basically similar drama, except fully fleshed out, and you'll have spent much more time with characters who are more charming, more fleshed out, with more dynamic comedy, romance between the heroines, and by the end of the show, the characters all feel like friends you've become attached with, and you'd actually feel like you're Riki, and not just watching him.

There's a lot more stuff that's more engaging in the VN, but I don't have the time to write a 10 page essay right now.
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:18 PM

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I think it is really unrealistic that no one died in the bus crash. I am not talking about how Riki and Rin saved everyone from the explosion, but just the initial crash and fall over the mountain side. No one was wearing seat belts. At least a handful of kids would have died just from the impact and being thrown around the vehicle.
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:24 PM

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GarLogan78 said:
I think it is really unrealistic that no one died in the bus crash. I am not talking about how Riki and Rin saved everyone from the explosion, but just the initial crash and fall over the mountain side. No one was wearing seat belts. At least a handful of kids would have died just from the impact and being thrown around the vehicle.

Apparently buses and other compartmentalised (I think that's the right word?) vehicles are actually better without seatbelts or something. Whether or not that's enough to explain the lack of deaths, who knows?
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:29 PM

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Well, the anime also exaggerates some things, but the VN actually just said "the bus fell off a cliff".
Maeda in charge of bus physics, anyways~
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:32 PM
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AsherFischell said:
Is the VN like 1000 times better than this was? From the show I just don't see what all the fuss was about. This is the only Maeda story that didn't make me burst into tears.


And then you have people like me who says this is a fine adaption. Obviously the VN is better (It always is), but the only way to find out is to play for yourself and don't listen to a single person. And that includes me.
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:44 PM
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I haven't read the VN but I can say that as an avid anime watcher, this was a good series. The music, animation, execution, they were all good, in my opinion. There were slow parts, parts that lagged and could use some editing to pick up the pace, but overall it was fine.

However, the end? I didn't like it. Like I said, I haven't read/played the VN, but as an anime only perspective, I did not like the finale. I mean, it was cute and happy and yay that they were all reunited, but that whole f-ing point of the show was Kyouske preparing them for the death of their friends. It really bothers me that Kyouske's prophecy of everyone dying didn't happen. I'm not saying that in a sick way; I do like happy endings, but a happy ending with LB: Refrain just didn't seem to fit. It was *supposed* to be bittersweet, not yay, everyone survives.

Ugh, I read all nine pages of this thread before I wrote my reply and I understand that some people are content with the ending, but I have got to express how disappointed I am with it. One poster mentioned that the positive end shouldn't take away from their previous farewells, but how could it not? It's like "bye, i'll never see you again, oh wait never mind" and then what? Like, seriously, what was the point of Kyouske saying all that on the ball field in episode 12? (which made me cry my face off).

I feel like I've been cheated, really. In the end, I cried for nothing. (Tears are cheap though, I know)

My one hope is that, as some posters said, there are, in fact, two separate endings. One where Riki, Kyouske, and Rin die in the explosion and one where everyone survives. On that note, I can't help but at least *speculate* that the second half of the episode is a dream. It seems waaay too cliched and perfect, even for Key. That being said, I saw some posters say that in the drama CD it's explained why the happy end is canon but STILL. COME ON GUYS, AT LEAST *SOME* OF THEM SHOULD HAVE KICKED THE BUCKET.

I'm not flaming, I'm really not. I just need to vent somewhere and the only thing on tumblr about LB:R right now is sappy gifs of the end.
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:47 PM

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MCAL said:
AsherFischell said:
Is the VN like 1000 times better than this was? From the show I just don't see what all the fuss was about. This is the only Maeda story that didn't make me burst into tears.


And then you have people like me who says this is a fine adaption. Obviously the VN is better (It always is), but the only way to find out is to play for yourself and don't listen to a single person. And that includes me.


Well, I'll always maintain that the type of drama in Little Busters is something that isn't quite instantly engaging, and you really have to understand Riki's position, because the events seem relatively melodramatic if you can't really consider them to be as important as he feels they are. It makes things like episodes 4,5, part of 6, 7 seem pretty weak. The changes in character came off as worrisome, and things not going smoothly feel saddening in the VN. I think it's harder to really get into perspective with the anime, when you're seeing the events as they are on-screen, and at such a quick pace at that.

The whole "friends leaving me" thing is something that I don't think is quite as compelling in the anime. There are a lot of other aspects like Kengo and Kyousuke's arc that start to make the tension more serious, but after the farewells, the ending was pretty weak. I think some people were expecting some adult-like drama, but put into perspective, I never cared for most drama as much as I felt for the stuff while reading Little Busters and other VNs. The difference between the Little Busters being Riki's friend instead of your friends creates a whole different experience when you watch. People are watching it weekly as well, and don't exactly come back to the show saying "Oh man, I wonder what will happen to my precious Little Busters this time!"

I dunno, I just really think it's hard to get immersed in the anime for a lot of reasons.

@holdonbaby
And this is why in the VN, there are two different endings, and you're forced to face the tragic end of the Little Busters in one timeline before they can be saved through magic. The interpretation is totally different, imo, and the fact that the Little Busters are saved feels like gratification for beating the VN, but it doesn't hinder replayability, because like with something like Clannad, people who rewatch After Story will always look forward to episode 21, where Key delivers the final blow. The true ending doesn't really hinder the enjoyment, but on a rewatch, I can see it being an issue because JC Staff didn't go through with the tragic ending in any sense. They eliminated the rewatchability along with the Key magic, I feel.

I personally enjoy the true ending because there's some Kyousuke x Riki shipping and nice scenes at the end, and they're fun to watch. It's gratifying seeing Riki reuinte with his friends with the epilogue in the VN.

But on the other hand, when I reread parts of Refrain, I'm focused on the Riki, Rin, Masato, Kengo, and Kyousuke that are all approaching the tragic end. The true end is something I've always kept partitioned from the story. I'm sure a lot of others have done this as well, hence why VN readers cried to episode 11. We were all feeling the incoming tragic end.
Modified by Vladz0r, Dec 28, 2013 8:55 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 8:56 PM

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"I hope there's an explanation behind those magic"

Da fuck?
When's the last time you questioned the magic in Alladin or Harry Potter?

and for those of you who cry "Dues Ex Machina"...

For the 7264984th time... Look up the meaning of the term!!!!!

Otherwise..

I feel that there's a lot more potential to Little Busters than what JC Staff have shown us. To be frank, I really liked Little Busters's theme, and I really favor it's side characters over those from Clannad.

It's a good show, really good. It's just not as good as Clannad by Kyoto Animation. (imo, KyoAni, over the course of adapting 3 Key's VN being Air to Kanon to Clannad, have already perfected their art of adapting Visual Novels)

Gatha give props to JC Staff for giving us LB! It's still overshadowed by Clannad After Story...

Then again, Clannad was a masterpiece.(Jun Maeda himself once claimed that he don't think he'll ever be able to write something of Clannad's quality again)

Basically... LB is good, people are just comparing it to it's amazing predecessor.
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Dec 28, 2013 9:03 PM

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In the end when Kyousuke was driving the mini-bus, I swear I was scared as hell that he would have crashed somewhere. (After all, there were already two road accidents, of course I'm worried when I see someone driving in LB)

Anyway, I'm such a lover of happy endings, but deep in down of me I wished for a tragic end, a kind of more memorable. 9/10 though, the fact that I cried as a little kiddy in episode 10 still remains.

Kyosuke best bro.

I'm planning to play the VN since everyone is talking good about it.
Also thanks to @Vladz0r with the gallery and his neverending posts that convinced me.

Oh, btw, almost forgot. Do everyone out in the real world remember what happened in the world created by Kyosuke?
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:04 PM

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AirStyles said:

Then again, Clannad was a masterpiece.(Jun Maeda himself once claimed that he don't think he'll ever be able to write something of Clannad's quality again)


And then he made the same claim with Refrain, lol.
Sadly, this anime doesn't represent the Little Busters VN as well as the Clannad adaptation represents the Clannad VN.

Aside from the Clannad side routes skipping thing, After Story doesn't have the issues the LB anime has.

But yeah, Little Busters did a lot of work to make it feel like the entire group were YOUR friends. It's a tough thing to replicate in the anime with Riki being so potent as the protagonist instead of the player. It would've been hard to come close, and would've taken some more enjoyable episodes for much more character attachment, more budget and better pacing to flesh out the characters more extensively. It would probably result in the anime being less than amazing to watch weekly if done wrong.

43% of the VN consists of the common route, plus you need to re-play it each time. The anime has about 11 episodes worth of common route material by comparison, so about 28%. There's a ton in terms of making the Little Busters feel like you very own set of friends that couldn't be done with these limitations. It got the core story, but it feels like more like watching Riki's story and everything collapse around him than having it be about you, the player.(watcher in the anime, I guess)

The narrative felt structured around the player, so having Riki as a character changes stuff up, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

And then just add on the other things about pacing, execution, animation, etc, and you wind up with a story that people won't find to be as great as the Clannad anime.
Modified by Vladz0r, Dec 28, 2013 9:12 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:10 PM

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Mixed feelings. It was great for me either way, but I think the tragic normal end to get to the true end was sorely missed. Not having experienced the VN of course, I just felt like a step was somehow missed. I still think it was fitting for all of Riki's(and Rin's) development to come right to fruition.

Will certainly play the VN some day, but this was still a great one.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:19 PM

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Vladz0r said:

Aside from the Clannad side routes skipping thing, After Story doesn't have the issues the LB anime has.


Maybe 4 years down the line, KyoAni might adapt Little Busters? (Like they did for Kanon)
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Dec 28, 2013 9:21 PM
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AirStyles said:
Vladz0r said:

Aside from the Clannad side routes skipping thing, After Story doesn't have the issues the LB anime has.


Maybe 4 years down the line, KyoAni might adapt Little Busters? (Like they did for Kanon)


First off NO!
Second off, why do you think JC Staff even got Little Busters in the first place?
Third off, I haven't see it, but I'm pretty sure Kanon 2002 didn't sell what today would be considered 9-10,000 blu-ray/DVDS.
Modified by MCAL, Dec 28, 2013 9:25 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:23 PM
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MCAL said:
AirStyles said:
Vladz0r said:

Aside from the Clannad side routes skipping thing, After Story doesn't have the issues the LB anime has.


Maybe 4 years down the line, KyoAni might adapt Little Busters? (Like they did for Kanon)


First off NO!
Second off, why do you think JC Staff even got Little Busters in the first place?


Because KyoAni was too busy with other shows for a long time and KEY wanted to get it adapted so J.C got it, derp.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:23 PM

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haven't played the VN yet, but this is the good ending right?
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:24 PM
Kanade♥

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animelover6644 said:
haven't played the VN yet, but this is the good ending right?


True ending, yes.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:26 PM
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Tyrel said:
animelover6644 said:
haven't played the VN yet, but this is the good ending right?


True ending, yes.

Minus the deus ex machna travel back in time.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:38 PM

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Meh, I'm all for a KyoAni remake if they can learn from JC Staff's story structure and actually make the scenes look good, have the story be presented smoothly, and make the comedy enjoyable. I don't really see how they could screw up when they did a good job with After Story, but whatever. And as for the endings, that's the 5% of Little Busters I don't really give a fuck about, so they can pull Key time magic BS all they want. I don't give JC Staff so much credit just because they made things like Rin's the development, Komari, and the common route into more of a story, when they couldn't make the comedy and scenes from Rin and Refrain nearly as enjoyable as I would've liked. I would've liked the story actually being engaging for people and getting to see people experience things like Masato's arc closer to what I felt in the VN.

But yeah, I don't see Little Busters getting a remake unless Key's assets (Rewrite, Angel Beats) become exhausted first. KyoAni doing good/bad are based on all sorts of different assumptions, and Little Busters' story structure is different from Clannad by nature, so I don't think it would've been done the same way. I can't imagine them possibly making cheap tricks or the farewells look bad or as lacking in impact as I felt they were, but whatever.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:40 PM
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MCAL said:
Anyone else notice Kurugaya staring at Riki at the 17:12 to 17:17 mark.

Oh yeah. Onee-san still feels something no doubt.


Yes, she is! -3-
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:41 PM

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Finally I can give my thoughts on this series overall. Before I do, I was a Anime-only viewer threw out Season 1 and 2 and my views will definitely be different than everyone else. You don't have to agree with me but at least respect my opinion.

That being said for this final episode of Little Busters! Refrain, I loved it I Loved It I LOVED IT!!!! I am completely satisfied with this happy ending and how everything turned out with Riki and Rin saving not only Kyousuke and the rest of the Little Busters but their whole class as well. I did kind of expect some Key Magic to come into play here but it was more meaningful that Riki and Rin was able to save them on their own and seeing everyone together again on the beach having fun filled me with joy. A solid final episode for sure.

Now as for the series as a whole, I can easily say that Little Busters!/Refrain is my favorite Key Anime. The key word to that is "Anime" because I saw this series as an Anime first and not find any differences from the Visual Novel. I never played the VN so I don't know what was done right or what was rushed or whatever you want to say. Besides not every adaption of anything will fellow the source material exactly and there will be changes. Same applies with movie adaptions of books, there's always going to be some changes whether we like it or not.

The reason why Little Busters!/Refrain is my favorite Key Anime is for one simple fact, it's cast of characters is my favorite from any Key series to date. I stated before that I love the characters of Little Busters! and this season further cements it. I cared about everyone of them, Riki, Rin, Kyousuke, everyone. Clannad/After Story and Angel Beats! did this too but not in the same way Little Busters!/Refrain did for me. I grown so attached to the Little Busters! threw out Season 1 and 2 with there message of friendship that it easily makes my Top 10 Favorite Animes. Although Clannad still has my favorite Key couple, Tomoya and Nagisa, so it has that at least.

So overall, I think JC Staff did a fantastic job here. I believed that they could do it and I think they did so bravo JC Staff, you successfully made me cry tears of sadness and joy for 4 straight weeks.

I give Little Busters! (S1) a 9/10 and Little Busters! Refrain a 10/10

I'm going to miss watching this series and reading Random Curiosity's blogs every Saturday. I agree with everything he had to say. http://randomc.net/category/little-busters/

LITTLE BUSTERS! FOREVER!!!
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:42 PM

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I cried since the episode begun.
The only thing I complained about was they didn´t adapt the girls epilogue. The rest seems fine.

Final thought (as a VN player): If well I expected more, I´m satisfied with the second season.

8/10

That means:
1st season= 6/10
2nd season= 8/10
OVA= 6,50/10
VN= 10/10

OVERALL: 7,6/10 >>> 8/10

:)


This is how it all begins.



My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:45 PM
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AnimeFan500 said:
OMG I can't stop crying T___T. Throughout this series: Kyousuke and the others were helping Riki and Rin prepare for this incident. So they could live on without them. But Riki and Rin found the strength to save everyone from the accident. Which wasn't part of Kyusuke's plan. Yet it exceeded his expectation of Riki and Rin.

If Riki didn't wake up from his narcolepsy and he never found the strength to save them, the bus would have killed everyone except Rin? Since she was atop of the hill.

Question?
The bus exploded yet Riki, Rin, and Kyousuke are alright. Is this another dream world or are we back to the real world??


For the last question, nope, they're really safe from the explosion. Riki sensed the explosion was near so he actually prepared himself and told everyone lay down and keep low before the explosion.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:46 PM

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I remember when I saw the preview after the first season ended, I was so excited. I've been waiting to watch this since then. The wait was worth it.

Woohoo! Happy ending!
I really enjoyed watching this series, though I kind of wanted to see what they could have done if this was 24 episodes instead. Either way, gotta say thanks to J.C. for adapting this.

I couldn't stop smiling when Kyousuke came in through the window and Little Busters! started to play. Great ending indeed.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:47 PM
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all i can say is this:

http://i.minus.com/iGQCmWn0FaTCc.gif

but to be honest, I couldn't take this show seriously when every second scene was a montage consisting of 5-10 images. Not to mention the ending animation was just 1 image, the whole thing. That's just too little effort, regardless of budget.

even if your budget was low, if you cant even convey the feelings of the characters due to the use of 5 images instead of 200, then you shouldn't try in the first place.

I realize people are saying it was adapted well, and they may have been faithful to the VN, but it was boring as hell to watch for me. Half of the characters disappeared for 8 episodes, and not for a good reason, really. The character development that took place after they disappeared was basically nonexistant. They just realized they shouldn't be so weak, thats about all.
Modified by Vortyne, Dec 28, 2013 9:52 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:48 PM
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JC Staff was amazing with animating the Little Busters. Refrain was 1:1 with the emotions brought from the VN-side of the story, and the animation really did a great job with conveying dem feels without the extensive monologue & dialog.

Also, wow, they cleared that hazy part in the VN with Riki going back to his birth. The VN made it seem like some Key magic but here they represented it as a PTSD which makes more sense.

I'm also happy that they animated the beach ending, having that just left out from the VN kinda felt like a mission of the Little Busters we didn't get to see... Which is pretty disheartening considering the story makes you feel like you're one of the Little Busters.

10/10, loved both VN and Anime, cried at both too ;.)

<3 Mio taking pictures, and Masato taking the camera xD

also, Kyousuke doing a forward flip from a window over 9 people O.o
Modified by Satoriblue, Dec 28, 2013 9:53 PM
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:54 PM
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Can't help but feel this ending was a complete cop-out. What's the point of Kyousuke going through infinite loop semesters to make Riki stronger if everybody is going to live and Riki can just rely on Kyousuke like always anyways? Kyousuke clearly said in the dream world that everybody except Riki and Rin died from the accident, yet instead nobody at all died?
Look, I'm all for happy endings; I'm hoping that Shingeki no Kyojin has a happy ending. But when it throws all the conflicts that the story created up to that moment out the window, it's not a good thing. A better ending would be an ending where they try to save everybody in the bus, but, as Kyousuke said, everybody is dead. Then lots of grief. Then eventually they overcome the loss of their friends and we see Riki/Rin ten years in the future or so reminiscing over it all.

Overall, Refrain gets a 7-9/10 from me. It was really good, especially episode 9 and 10, but this ending just didn't cut it.
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Dec 28, 2013 9:55 PM
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@holdonbaby
And this is why in the VN, there are two different endings, and you're forced to face the tragic end of the Little Busters in one timeline before they can be saved through magic. The interpretation is totally different, imo, and the fact that the Little Busters are saved feels like gratification for beating the VN, but it doesn't hinder replayability, because like with something like Clannad, people who rewatch After Story will always look forward to episode 21, where Key delivers the final blow. The true ending doesn't really hinder the enjoyment, but on a rewatch, I can see it being an issue because JC Staff didn't go through with the tragic ending in any sense. They eliminated the rewatchability along with the Key magic, I feel.

I personally enjoy the true ending because there's some Kyousuke x Riki shipping and nice scenes at the end, and they're fun to watch. It's gratifying seeing Riki reuinte with his friends with the epilogue in the VN.

But on the other hand, when I reread parts of Refrain, I'm focused on the Riki, Rin, Masato, Kengo, and Kyousuke that are all approaching the tragic end. The true end is something I've always kept partitioned from the story. I'm sure a lot of others have done this as well, hence why VN readers cried to episode 11. We were all feeling the incoming tragic end.


Which is the *true* ending? The happy one or the sad one? I'm seeing some people say *normal* is sad and *true* is happy but it also seems to be being used interchangeably.
 
Dec 28, 2013 9:59 PM
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makoa69 said:
Can't help but feel this ending was a complete cop-out. What's the point of Kyousuke going through infinite loop semesters to make Riki stronger if everybody is going to live and Riki can just rely on Kyousuke like always anyways? Kyousuke clearly said in the dream world that everybody except Riki and Rin died from the accident, yet instead nobody at all died?
Look, I'm all for happy endings; I'm hoping that Shingeki no Kyojin has a happy ending. But when it throws all the conflicts that the story created up to that moment out the window, it's not a good thing. A better ending would be an ending where they try to save everybody in the bus, but, as Kyousuke said, everybody is dead. Then lots of grief. Then eventually they overcome the loss of their friends and we see Riki/Rin ten years in the future or so reminiscing over it all.

Overall, Refrain gets a 7-9/10 from me. It was really good, especially episode 9 and 10, but this ending just didn't cut it.


I absolutely and entirely agree with you.
 
Dec 28, 2013 10:04 PM

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Lolicon said:
I was going to give this show a 10/10 but the last episode didn't meet my expectations/hopes so I'll give it a 9/10. A Riki x Rin kiss scene would of been nice and might of earned it a 10, but a death scene would if defiantly earned it a 10....oh well.


this
 
Dec 28, 2013 10:05 PM
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Vladz0r said:
AsherFischell said:
Is the VN like 1000 times better than this was? From the show I just don't see what all the fuss was about. This is the only Maeda story that didn't make me burst into tears.


Yep.
A lot of readers feel it shits on all of Key's anime, in fact, including myself of course.
It's basically similar drama, except fully fleshed out, and you'll have spent much more time with characters who are more charming, more fleshed out, with more dynamic comedy, romance between the heroines, and by the end of the show, the characters all feel like friends you've become attached with, and you'd actually feel like you're Riki, and not just watching him.

There's a lot more stuff that's more engaging in the VN, but I don't have the time to write a 10 page essay right now.


Over exaggerating again and again. LOL. Overreacting VN players always being overreacting. ;)
 
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