Monogatari Series: Second Season Episode 25 Discussion
Dec 21, 2013 7:25 AM
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
Peace, peace. Ah another great episode.
Ononoki was awesome. Nadeko da yo~
Dem revelations too. One more episode to go..I'm already starting to miss this show.
Dec 21, 2013 8:25 AM
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Dec 21, 2013 10:22 AM
Funny, I was actually expecting it to end one chapter LATER as people still don't know... LOL People must be dying, wondering since Nisemonogatari and now for 5 episodes, just what is in that closet? LOL
But that is a super awesome place to end it too. $#!^!!! Nadeko may be stupid but apparently she isn't THAT stupid...
Next episode should be a amazing though just 30 pages to adapt!
Still love seeing Hanekawa in Tiger hairdo and always love seeing Ononoki.
And dat foreshadowing... Kanbaru...
Dec 21, 2013 10:25 AM
Dec 21, 2013 10:57 AM
ihusmal1234 said:It is the same in the novel as in the show there. But of course as he said in the beginning everything he says here may be a lie... but in that part at least he really is saying that he did it on purpose that way, and he doesn't want that to get out. That's what he wrote in Koimonogatari anyway, take it as you will...
So I was always confused about this part. Was Kaiki always trying to truly help Senjougahara and played the bad guy role? And since his true intentions didn't really fit his character he always ended up failing in one or more aspect? Don't remember the exact details from the novel since it's been years.
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nitrohawk said:I thought they were skipping the OP but it was just late thankfully.
That opening never fails to make me laugh. Kaiki you magnificent bastard.
One more episode to go. Gonna be a sad day next week.
Also, does anybody have any idea when Monogatari Final Series will be animated?
One more episode of Koi, then Hana next year, god I hope Kizu too then if Nisio ever finishes writing tinal season then Shaft can think about animating it but I would be happy if they just brought the books out as ONAs instead of waiting for him.
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Now the fun should begin. Kaiki should have known based on Nadeko's personality that his ploy had no chance of working, deceitful people always think that everyone else are deceitful, this applies even more to Nadeko than it does to Kaiki. Besides, he would never had told Hitagi his real plan. So that was his opening move, Nadeko knew from the beginning and has been waiting for this, her apparent stupidity (to the point of tripping) all part of her game, how will Kaiki respond?
Going to be fun to watch.
Dec 21, 2013 3:19 PM
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Dec 21, 2013 3:39 PM
- does Kaiki have feelings for Hitagi?
Not exactly feelings, I think more like a grudging acknowledgment of her. When Kaiki tricked Hitagi, there was no pride in it for him as a professional: she had no choice but to believe in him, so desperate was her situation at the time. He expected her to be crushed by his betrayal, but she surprised him by coming out of it stronger than she was before, and while she hasn't forgiven him, she actually does feel gratitude that he helped her. I think this was a somewhat unique experience for Kaiki, and it makes him feel uncomfortable (though I am not entirely sure he is aware of this, on a certain level the person he has fooled the most is himself).
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Btw I don't know if it's a translation error ( I watched the Commie release ) but Nadeko said '' So, you're trying to deceive me too? '' Does that mean that someone before Kaiki tried to deceive her or its just an error from Commie ?
I havent read the novels or anything but im assuming that because of her personality she feels like shes being deceived by everyone around her or that they are trying to deceive her which is why she said "too". Though i could be wrong XD
That's what the lady said...
Koimonogatari page 236,
"Kaiki san mo 'watashi' o damasun da ne" to, uttori to hohoe shita.
"Kaiki, you too have been deceiving 'me' eh?" she said and smiled charmingly.
The emphasis is on him too deceiving her (more people deceiving her), not him deceiving her too (as in him deceiving more people).
End of chapter 35. Can't say more without violating the don't spoil further rule.
Modified by hpulley, Dec 21, 2013 6:10 PM
Dec 21, 2013 6:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
had to make the picture. just had to.
Dec 21, 2013 6:08 PM
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Dec 21, 2013 6:24 PM
it was so fast,,god...R.I.P. kaiki, you tried.....and failed
such a strong character, weird, strong but , oddly weak, he can just die like that O_O
Relax, the game should only be starting.
Everything that Kaiki says to other people is a lie, only when they flash his thoughts with the placards do we have any idea of what he is actually thinking, and even then I would be careful about accepting them as the truth.
I haven't read ahead, so I could be wrong, but no one would come straight out like he did and just state it. Even if Nadeko was an airhead she wouldn't have believed it that way, however if Nadeko was expecting him to lie to her (and from HPulley post it seems that way), Kaiki should have expected that.
If so, then by getting caught, he has cleared the first hurdle. Ironically in order to trick a liar you first have to get them to catch you lying, that way you conform to how they think you should be acting, and they no longer perceive you as a threat.
Twisted, I know, but strangely true. Which is why honesty really is, generally speaking, the best policy. Lying is like trying to understand 14 dimensional plane geometry.
Modified by Takuan_Soho, Dec 21, 2013 6:48 PM
Dec 21, 2013 6:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
So... was it deception, deception within deception or deception within deception within deception?
OP is just hilarious, I guess it's the first one in whole monogatari series I have never skipped...
Damn dat show's definitely fall's and probably year's best.
Dec 21, 2013 6:26 PM
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Dec 21, 2013 7:05 PM
MisterXX said:Did you mean when Ononoki said it near the end of their conversation? She said 昔の女 "mukashi no onna" not 昔の彼女 "mukashi no kanojo" which is the usual term for ex-girlfriend. "Mukashi no onna" usually means matronly "old woman" but it doesn't make sense for it to be "old woman" there. Prior to that she says 他人の彼女 "tanin no kanojo" someone else's girlfriend, referring to Senjougahara being Koyomi's girlfriend so it was odd that Ononoki particularly said onna instead of kanojo and if you listen, she said exactly what is in the book. I think it actually meant, "girl from the past" here. At any rate, Kaiki says that's a misunderstanding in his next lines so whatever she meant, Kaiki thinks she is mistaken. Page 229, Koimonogatari light novel, near the end of chapter 34.
Did they actually use the term "Ex girlfriend" in the novel ? now I'm a bit confused
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