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#1
Dec 9, 2013 9:53 PM
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I would like to ask the mods if it would be possible for them to leave threads in the News Discussion forum open for shows that have not yet aired. For some reason, threads for these shows (which are not even that old) have been closed on the News Discussion forum. This is significant because News threads can also only be opened with mod approval. I do not think closing these threads (at least not before the show has started airing) is a good idea and I'm not sure why it has been done.

In the past, these threads have been a place for people to post updates and new information about series that haven't aired yet, and for people to discuss this new information. With these threads closed, it is difficult for people to post these updates/information in a place where others will see it, much less discuss this new information. I suppose people could post updates/information in the series discussion forums, but I'm not sure many people will navigate there to find it. I thought one of, if not the main reason for having a News Discussion forum was to create a place to aggregate new information where people will see it and be able to discuss it. I hope the mods will see the problems posed by this new practice and allow News Discussion threads for these shows to remain open. Thank you.
 
#2
Dec 9, 2013 10:00 PM

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I just realize this. Centaintly this is a problem. I'm myself sometimes update the news ofsome anime if I find new source for it. Sometimes the thread is also helping to decide wether I'm going to watching or mnot by reading severan conversation of user that have read source material (if any).
 
#3
Dec 10, 2013 12:31 AM

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I agree. It's one thing to lock stuff like ranking threads or awards threads or stuff like that after a month (or that damn Aya Hirano thread that reappeared every couple of weeks for the last 5 years or whatever), but to lock things like this just doesn't make sense. The timing of them is tied to the anime airing, not to the announcement itself.

Also, that new rule means stuff like the license announcements thread (which covers 3 months of announcements) and the simulcast announcement thread (which can get new information 4+ months after the announcements start) should technically be locked after just a single month. Which is just crazy. After all, the whole point of making those threads was so that they could be grouped together rather than having dozens of separate ones for those things.
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#4
Dec 10, 2013 1:05 AM

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Seems Luna_ posted the reason for the modification of the rules:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=516089#msg26886683
 
#5
Dec 10, 2013 1:09 AM

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There is also the fact that not all new or old user check the news everyday. Sometimes bump is necessary to make the news more known to other. Also fan who just know the news is same as the one who know earlier want to express their though of the news.
 
#6
Dec 10, 2013 5:18 AM
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jmal said:
I don't mind the locking if whoever starts a the new thread always 1. neatly summarizes all previous information from older threads in the new thread and 2. links all the previous threads in the new thread so we can skim them to make sure nothing was missed. If you have to search for news across 5 threads going back a dozens of pages, uh, you're just not going to because that's obnoxious.

I definitely think something needs to be done about the obnoxious and pointless necrobumping that happens in the news forum over and over and over (locking solves that nicely), and of course this is MAL so most threads over 20 posts are like 80% whining and trolling and pointless arguing, so the longer a thread lasts the less useful and less information-dense it gets.

But still, locking or not locking, it doesn't matter so much if shitty, thread-derailing behavior is consistently tolerated by the mods like it is now, or just shrugged off as people being "hardheaded" or "passionate" when what they're being is plain rude and immature and incompetent at social interaction in a public space. So instead of searching one mega crap-filled thread for nuggets of info, we search 5 smaller threads with much the same problems. It can actually make things a little worse, because people who choose to inflict their negative opinions on every news thread about something they don't like are going to feel compelled to do it for each new iteration of the thread too, so we get to read it 4-5x instead of once.

Unless the two conditions about summarizing previous info are met (and I have a feeling they won't be, it's a lot of work), and mods stop tolerating people acting like brats, I get the impression we'll just trade one problem for another. About the only thing this is likely to fix is the necrobumping.


But at what point does posting in a News Discussion thread become "necrobumping"? I only mentioned threads created for shows that have not even aired yet. These tend to be relatively recent announcements. Also, the new rule is for threads that are 1 month old. 1 month?! A LOT of those threads are for shows that haven't even aired yet!

If regular users aren't able to bump these threads with new information then I presume the mods will be responsible for bumping these "old" threads with the new updates/information OR they will need to create a new thread for every update (e.g. cast announced, new visual, new PV, etc.). If that is the case, then we become dependent on the mods keeping track of every bit of new information that comes out, whether it is in Japanese, English, twitter, an official site, etc. Furthermore, do the mods really want to clutter up the News Discussion forum with a new thread for every update?

It's not that I think the mods would be terrible at this, but rather that it is such a difficult/tedious job, and would be so easy to miss new updates, that I'm not sure any small group of people should be expected to keep track of all the new information that comes out regarding previous announcements, including the smallest updates. If the threads are left open, then the community can help to fill in the gaps where any new information is left out. Yes, people can message a mod with the new information. But then where does the mod post that new information? A whole new thread just for a minor update? Or will they reopen the older threads whenever there is a new update?

And yes, people can post these updates in the "series" forums. But how many people honestly go to these series forums for news/updates before the shows have even started airing? If you are going to refer people to series forums for their news, why bother even having a News Discussion forum at all then? Why bother posting sales/licensing information in the News Discussion forum? Why not just post the sales number in the series forum? If people want to know how much a series sold they can go look it up in that series' forum. Not convenient or likely to reach many people? EXACTLY.

As for your point about bad behavior. Yes, some people can be immature, mean, or just plain rude. But some people are just that way. I feel like you may just have to deal with a certain amount of that kind of behavior (you probably know this already). By the same token, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to mods taking some additional actions (if possible) to curb this kind of behavior. HOWEVER, I do not see how closing these threads accomplishes this. As you point out, I don't think this "fix" fixes much of anything other than the "necrobumping". And in my opinion, not all "necrobumping" is created equal. If a person is bumping an old thread with a new update/information, I think that is something that should not only be allowed, but encouraged.
 
#7
Dec 10, 2013 12:47 PM

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Time from green light announcement to actual showing is months or years. New details, PVs come out. Do we need a news article separately posted every time a seiyuu or key visual is shown? As long as discussion is relevant I think it is OK to keep the thread open so people can add details as they come up. Otherwise you'll have a lot of news threads to create and lock.
 
#8
Dec 10, 2013 5:16 PM

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I think the new policy is utterly ridiculous. MAL is going backwards in usefulness, as further threads made due to older threads being locked, just clutters the forum board. The thread closures, makes it annoying when you don't even know a thread is locked, unless you actually visit the thread.

It is much harder to communicate new information on anime that hasn't aired yet in their individual series-specific discussion boards, since I doubt a new thread will pop up for something as simple as new seiyuu, PVs, etc. This is really slowly becoming like ANN, where a news post is made for every little thing since posts travel quickly due to its nature of news reporting.

I agree with what jmal said above, where each new news thread should link all the previous news threads so that the board is easier to navigate with these new policies. I also don't look forward to seeing more of the "why does this crap get a second season when _________ is more deserving", and all that other whiny nonsense we see in the News Threads now.

The MAL staff has bitten off more than they can chew, as they need to lock over 180 pages of news threads, since they are now older than 1 month since posting. Unless it only applies to a limited timeframe for now?
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#9
Dec 10, 2013 7:43 PM
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hpulley said:
Time from green light announcement to actual showing is months or years. New details, PVs come out. Do we need a news article separately posted every time a seiyuu or key visual is shown? As long as discussion is relevant I think it is OK to keep the thread open so people can add details as they come up. Otherwise you'll have a lot of news threads to create and lock.


Agreed. Either that or perhaps something happens and hardly anyone knows or gets to hear about it. For example, wouldn't you like to know that Horie Yui is gonna be in the upcoming anime Black Bullet (I know you're a fan of Horie Yui don't lie lol)? Well, the page on MAL has been updated to show that she is but has there been any post on any forum on MAL about this? No. Of course not. The News thread for Black Bullet is closed. That ancient news thread from way back in October. What a joke.

This is the kind of thing that someone like symbv might have posted in the news forum thread. But now he can't and so NOTHING has been posted in the news forum about it. Either the mods themselves should take responsibility for catching this kind of news or drop this policy and allow people to post this news in those locked threads. If the Horie Yui thing is any indication they may not be capable of the former, so preferably the latter.

Edit: I hope the mods have seen the appearance of the Prism Nana thread. If the main purpose was to prevent any of the old threads from being necrobumped, they appear to have failed.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 10, 2013 10:37 PM
 
Dec 10, 2013 10:55 PM

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I originally posted this in the BD rankings thread but I am re-posting it here after ThangLong redirected me to this thread.

I'm not a big fan of the news forum changes.

Let's say that a brand new PV comes out for Noruin in the next week. Usually symbv or someone else would post a link to that in the "Nourin gets an anime adaption thread", a thread which is certainly over a month old. Under the new system, that thread will be locked. Moreover, the only way to communicate the new information is to make a new thread about it. However, it's a relatively minor piece of news and it's unlikely that it would get it's own thread or that the news system would be navigable if every minor story got it's own thread, given the sudden influx of stories.

Besides PV's, seiyuu announcements, concept art from the show, information about the OP and ED, and other important information might not be communicated. I can only imagine minor benefits from closing the threads and this may be a case of making the perfect the enemy of the good.

Like many people here, I would like to see this policy reversed. The news forum is one of the most useful features of MAL and this policy makes it a lot less useful.
Modified by shigeru212, Dec 11, 2013 1:18 AM
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Dec 11, 2013 1:47 AM

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Why would I lie about being a Yui Horie fan? I love her work! And I love her bit parts. Her part as Serena singing Apple in Senki Zesshou Symphogear G is a big thing for me.

Didn't know she will be in Black Bullet either. These are things I definitely need to know!!!
 
Dec 11, 2013 4:45 AM
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hpulley said:
Why would I lie about being a Yui Horie fan? I love her work! And I love her bit parts. Her part as Serena singing Apple in Senki Zesshou Symphogear G is a big thing for me.

Didn't know she will be in Black Bullet either. These are things I definitely need to know!!!


Haha just messing with you. I kinda like her voice too...

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. The new policy is so ridiculous I'm not even sure the mods know what they are supposed to be doing in the News forum (and with such a difficult policy who can blame them for not knowing?). For example, yesterday a news mod made a whole new thread about an update to Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei as it was announced to air in spring I think. I presume the new thread for Rettousei was made because symbv's old thread for Rettousei from October was closed. However, I think the new thread was then merged with the old thread and the old thread was reopened by another mod.

So, is the new policy to reopen the old threads for news that is deemed worthy of posting but not worthy of its own thread? And how is anyone supposed to know at what point new information/updates are worthy of being posted in the closed threads, but not worthy of their own thread? Because apparently even the mod did not know this, or did not have permission to open the closed thread perhaps? What a mess this new policy has created. I hope the news mods will see the difficulty this policy has created for them and side with us on this issue.

I suppose it could be interesting to watch the mods struggle to figure out what/how they are supposed to do things under this new policy with so many threads locked. Or they could do the easy thing and, you know, NOT LOCK THEM.

Also keep in mind that I don't think I have ever complained to a mod about anything before this change, and I've been a pretty mellow guy. However, I think in this particular case whoever decided to implement this new policy has made a TREMENDOUS mistake, and as such I will probably continue to hammer away at it (although it's a pretty easy target, considering how terrible the policy and/or its implementation have been). Or if this policy continues and news such as the seiyuu announced in anime is not posted, I guess I can just head over to Anime News Network and get news there. I'd rather not sift through alll that, but if MAL doesn't post the news, then what choice do I have? Congrats on making the News Discussion board a lot less useful for its users. And for what benefit? It didn't end the necrobumping...so not sure what else it helps with. Limiting discussion in general? Perhaps, if you consider that a good thing. Then perhaps the "News Discussion forum" should just become the "News forum". Or, better yet, why have a News forum at all? Just make a News feed. Then you don't need to moderate that troublesome "discussion" stuff. Just eliminate it entirely.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 11, 2013 5:27 AM
 
Dec 11, 2013 4:57 AM

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Perhaps luckily for us, this new policy is so ridiculous and unworkable that they are bound to change/drop it themselves. Especially if they are now trying to merge back newly created threads with old locked ones...
 
Dec 11, 2013 5:42 AM

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It's fine, I've been on this forum enough to see random constantly users bump news threads from like 4~5 years ago.

If you want to post news about them, just make a new thread in the series discussion. I believe Stark does and it's honestly fine.
 
Dec 11, 2013 7:12 AM

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Paul said:
It's fine, I've been on this forum enough to see random constantly users bump news threads from like 4~5 years ago.

If you want to post news about them, just make a new thread in the series discussion. I believe Stark does and it's honestly fine.
Nope, that won't work. Only news mods can create threads in the news forum.
 
Dec 11, 2013 7:21 AM

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Ejc said:
MAL is going backwards in usefulness

I could use that single part for many, many recent actions done that shouldn't be, and not done that should be by the MAL's Staff.

In all honesty, I'm quite disappointed by how they assume (Kineta and Luna mostly, as far as I see) that they know the whole system and that everyone will follow their lead. That's not quite the case. These two believe that they are the ones that should run and lead the forums like kings, but they got it wrong. They should make the forums on the way so it fits for us, the community.

Although rule-enforcing and stating some limits is good, overdoing it and being too smart isn't. Have you ever, even once, asked the community on their opinion? If you are a mod, it doesn't mean you are something more. It doesn't mean you know how to do something better. It just means you accepted the role and have the power for it. It also means that you must use that power efficiently. So, are you using it correctly? As for the moment, the answer would be "no".
 
Dec 11, 2013 8:55 AM
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hpulley said:
Paul said:
It's fine, I've been on this forum enough to see random constantly users bump news threads from like 4~5 years ago.

If you want to post news about them, just make a new thread in the series discussion. I believe Stark does and it's honestly fine.
Nope, that won't work. Only news mods can create threads in the news forum.


Actually I think he's saying put the news in the series forum.

I know that is possible. But my issue is that I seriously doubt many people go to the series forums PRIOR to shows even starting to air. Maybe if you are VERY interested in a show you would track the series forum before it airs but how many people do you know do that? And if so, why post any announcements about new shows in the news forum? You could just open a new series forum and let people go there to find out about it themselves?

It's not so much that I want to post news about these shows as I (and I think others as well) want to SEE news about these shows without having to navigate to each individual series forum. No offense to stark, but I don't think many people outside of those who already have a strong interest (e.g. from manga, LN, etc.) look for news information on upcoming series in the series forum. Those of us with a casual interest in news about upcoming shows probably look in the NEWS forum.

What you seem to be suggesting is that it's "fine" for news to be excluded from the news forum. You are entitled to that opinion and I am entitled to strongly disagree with it.

However, I would like to make a few points. First off, I think you may have missed the point of this thread. I AM NOT asking for all of those 4-5 year old threads to be left open. I don't think most of us would mind if those are closed. A lot of THESE threads for the upcoming shows are fairly recent (months, not years old). Secondly, I ask you which is more important, preventing the bumping of some old threads (which can be subsequently closed and taken off of the first page, yes, I've seen that done) or leaving some threads open so that people can communicate relevant and new information to others who might be interested? I would compare it to using a chainsaw on a problem for which they should be using a scalpel. For instance, I have yet to see ANY announcement regarding the VA in Black Bullet, an upcoming series (not in the News forum, not in series forum). As you might expect, that thread has been locked. Should we just accept that this kind of information will just fall through the cracks for the greater good of preventing the dreaded necrobumping?

Also, since the policy was implemented, I'm pretty sure I've seen at least 2 old threads bumped (e.g. the Prism Nana thread) so it hasn't even stopped that from happening. What an abject failure the policy has been.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 11, 2013 11:15 AM
 
Dec 11, 2013 4:46 PM

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I see, just creating threads in the series forums. Sure, I suppose you can do that but that leaves a lot of series to check. The news forum is a good one stop shopping location. Ah well...
 
Dec 11, 2013 5:47 PM

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hpulley said:
I see, just creating threads in the series forums. Sure, I suppose you can do that but that leaves a lot of series to check. The news forum is a good one stop shopping location. Ah well...


Indeed. It's more unnecessary clicks just to see news that you want to see. You also need to keep track of every single series that you are expecting news from, rather than looking at the old News Discussion thread and handpicking what news you want to read.

Going back a few pages in the old News Discussion thread wasn't much of an issue at all, since the most recent threads are being bumped for new information, which make them relevant.

As stated before, perhaps the mods need to police the News Discussion thread more than before as I don't believe there was much of a problem of "news being kept relevant" in the News Discussion forum. I believe this was done just to curb "necrobumping" of very old threads (which doesn't happen very often in my experience here at MAL anyway!)
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Dec 11, 2013 8:24 PM
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Ejc said:
hpulley said:
I see, just creating threads in the series forums. Sure, I suppose you can do that but that leaves a lot of series to check. The news forum is a good one stop shopping location. Ah well...


Indeed. It's more unnecessary clicks just to see news that you want to see. You also need to keep track of every single series that you are expecting news from, rather than looking at the old News Discussion thread and handpicking what news you want to read.

Going back a few pages in the old News Discussion thread wasn't much of an issue at all, since the most recent threads are being bumped for new information, which make them relevant.

As stated before, perhaps the mods need to police the News Discussion thread more than before as I don't believe there was much of a problem of "news being kept relevant" in the News Discussion forum. I believe this was done just to curb "necrobumping" of very old threads (which doesn't happen very often in my experience here at MAL anyway!)


Yeah I thought one of the main reasons for having the news forum was to aggregate the news so that people could easily/conveniently see it. If you don't care if people see it, or if it's conveniently available, then by all means close the news threads and put the news in the series forums.

If you don't care about making things useful/convenient for people or you don't care if people see the news or not then what's the point of posting the news at all? People can just look it up on their own, so why don't you just tell them to do that? Better yet, just go to another website that aggregates the news and actually cares about making things convenient for the people who visit it. It's astounding the kind of hubris and lack of concern that attitude shows.

By the way, was there a spate of "necrobumping" that I am unaware of that prompted this drastic action? I don't recall seeing a whole ton of "necrobumping" that would make this level of response seem reasonable...
 
Dec 11, 2013 8:31 PM

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Hahalollawl said:
By the way, was there a spate of "necrobumping" that I am unaware of that prompted this drastic action? I don't recall seeing a whole ton of "necrobumping" that would make this level of response seem reasonable...
I'm not aware if there are a lot but I only saw one thread dated 2008 that was necrobumped and the user said 'thanks for the info'.
 
Dec 11, 2013 8:39 PM

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Just like rec thread, why don't we just make use to that report button there?
 
Dec 11, 2013 9:35 PM

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NeoAnkara said:
Just like rec thread, why don't we just make use to that report button there?

Mods don't want to take their time or don't have it to judge the situation.
That's the only reasonable explanation.
Modified by Subpyro, Dec 14, 2013 12:18 PM
 
Dec 11, 2013 11:05 PM

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hpulley said:
I see, just creating threads in the series forums. Sure, I suppose you can do that but that leaves a lot of series to check. The news forum is a good one stop shopping location. Ah well...


I agree here. This policy makes it more inconvenient for users to find information about shows that are upcoming, especially winter 2014 titles.

The necrombumping wasn't even a big issue. If I saw that someone posted on an old thread then I wouldn't click on it. It's not rocket science.

The slight utility that is gained from eliminating necrombumping is more than offset by the loss of utility from the inability to easily learn about winter 2014 shows, especially when there is a lot of interesting news coming out. MAL should make changes that add value to the website, instead of the inverse.
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Dec 13, 2013 3:48 PM

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hpulley said:
Time from green light announcement to actual showing is months or years. New details, PVs come out. Do we need a news article separately posted every time a seiyuu or key visual is shown? As long as discussion is relevant I think it is OK to keep the thread open so people can add details as they come up. Otherwise you'll have a lot of news threads to create and lock.

I agree with this. It's tedious to go through all the series discussion forums when I could have just gone to the news board for relevant information.
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Dec 14, 2013 1:51 AM
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What I also find very annoying is that I don't recall any sort of indication or notification to the community prior to this policy change. It's not like there was all of a sudden a ton of bumping of old threads, so the mods were like hey, we need to do something about this guys, and responded by implementing this policy.

Rather, it seems like it just happened all of a sudden because someone with a lot of power decided hey, I think this is a good idea so let's do things how I want to do them to solve something that I think is a problem, regardless of how members of the community may feel. That's a really disgusting attitude to have. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that whatever mod(s) made this decision haven't considered it worth their time to communicate with those of us who are concerned about this policy.

I guess before I kind of thought that symbv was being a bit harsh on the mods with his criticism, but I think it's because he (as a former news mod) probably knew how things worked better than I did, and I think my perspective has started to shift more towards his. Before I might have tried to give the mods the benefit of the doubt as people trying to do the right thing for the benefit of the people of the community. But the way this thing has been carried out has cast a lot of doubt on that perspective. It's hard to believe they could make such a drastic change with so little communication/discussion, much less asking people for their opinions/ideas.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 14, 2013 2:23 AM
 
Dec 14, 2013 4:21 AM

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taketori said:
hpulley said:
Time from green light announcement to actual showing is months or years. New details, PVs come out. Do we need a news article separately posted every time a seiyuu or key visual is shown? As long as discussion is relevant I think it is OK to keep the thread open so people can add details as they come up. Otherwise you'll have a lot of news threads to create and lock.

I agree with this. It's tedious to go through all the series discussion forums when I could have just gone to the news board for relevant information.


Quite.

And what was bumped up on the news discussion board was a fairly good indication as to what had received new information.

Sure, you can say to go through the anime discussion boards. But they get bumped off the top page overnight easily. With news threads, being bumped off the top page just meant you had to go down to page 2. But with the anime discussion forums, you have to browse every single letter. And chances are you wouldn't find anything.

What's more, there are often discussions on these boards that bump the forum up the list for completely unrelated reasons. So most of the things that come up will not actually be of any use to you if what you are after is new information. And the useful threads get reposted on far after the actual news more often than the news discussion threads do (on account of the fact that people don't see them so easily). So they will keep reappearing and you will have to keep checking 27 pages of forums, clicking on every single anime that you are interested in, and then checking through the threads, over and over again, only to find, more often than not, that nothing of any use has been posted in any of them.

If you can remember the names of them all in the first place, that is.
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Dec 14, 2013 11:22 AM

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I just wanted to post the OP & ED announcement of Sakura trick, but then I realized the thread was closed.



I really hope they revert this change.
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Dec 14, 2013 11:43 AM

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rederoin said:
I just wanted to post the OP & ED announcement of Sakura trick, but then I realized the thread was closed.



I really hope they revert this change.
OK, who is doing it? Haruka Tomatsu I hope!

We'll make this the new News thread LOL
 
Dec 14, 2013 12:38 PM

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hpulley said:
rederoin said:
I just wanted to post the OP & ED announcement of Sakura trick, but then I realized the thread was closed.



I really hope they revert this change.
OK, who is doing it? Haruka Tomatsu I hope!

We'll make this the new News thread LOL

http://i.imgur.com/YGQ9lds.jpg

The song names do sound promising.
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Dec 14, 2013 1:07 PM

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rederoin said:
hpulley said:
rederoin said:
I just wanted to post the OP & ED announcement of Sakura trick, but then I realized the thread was closed.



I really hope they revert this change.
OK, who is doing it? Haruka Tomatsu I hope!

We'll make this the new News thread LOL

http://i.imgur.com/YGQ9lds.jpg

The song names do sound promising.
I have read all three volumes so I know that they sound oh so apropos! Cannot wait for this one!
Modified by hpulley, Dec 14, 2013 3:16 PM
 
Dec 14, 2013 2:09 PM
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rederoin said:
I just wanted to post the OP & ED announcement of Sakura trick, but then I realized the thread was closed.



I really hope they revert this change.


Join the club. Like literally lol, here's the club: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=40579

The mods (forum mods I think, not the News Team), have apparently decided that they will rule the news forum with an iron fist, and determine what is or isn't "Newsworthy". For those of us mere users, I guess we are limited to the series forum... It's such a ridiculous policy that raises so many issues/questions and doesn't seem to solve many problems.

I guess I kinda called out ThangLong in the Nanana thread for posting a PV that was already posted in the series discussion forum. I don't really feel all that great about it though, as I've found ThangLong to be an interesting/informed poster in the past. But he is a forum mod, so I guess he signed off on (or at least didn't object to) this new policy change.

And lol at you guys making this thread into a news thread. Derailers lol! But honestly if there's no place to post it in the News forum I don't mind if you post it here (but the mods might lol). It's like a form of protest lol. They want to limit us to posting this stuff in the series forum? Well what are you gonna do if we post it in the Suggestions forum? hahaha
 
Dec 14, 2013 2:34 PM

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Hahalollawl said:
Well what are you gonna do if we post it in the Suggestions forum? hahaha


Ban you for repeatedly breaking rules.
 
Dec 14, 2013 3:18 PM
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TallonKarrde23 said:
Hahalollawl said:
Well what are you gonna do if we post it in the Suggestions forum? hahaha


Ban you for repeatedly breaking rules.


Why would you bother wasting your time answering a rhetorical question? Could you not tell that last paragraph was me fooling around by the number of "lol"s in it? And if you have nothing to contribute to the topic why are you even posting in here? The three of us have at least contributed to this discussion.

And if they ban rederoin and hpulley for a few posts in this thread then that only goes to show even further the mods' excessive overreach and lack of concern for what hurts or helps the forum. They have contributed much to the News forum and in my opinion banning them would be to the detriment of the forum. Then again, if recent actions are any indication the mods may not care about what benefits the forum anyways.
 
Dec 16, 2013 12:00 PM

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Date A Live announcement of airing date: 8:58 (GMT) this morning
I found out about it: 10:05
This is fairly typical amount of time for me to find out about something that I'm interested in if I'm on the internet all the time from when it is announced. In the past the news has almost always been posted on MAL by this time, or someone is in the process of writing up the news story. I decided not to submit it in order to see how long it took to be sorted out.
Crunchyroll posted the news: 15:31
Info posted on Tohka/Kurumi Fanclub on MAL: <30 mins later
(I got fed up waiting and posted it on the suggestions thread at some point this evening - and deleted that post shortly before making this one)
Thread posted on Date A Live 2nd Season forums: 19:44

News thread unlocked with new info posted: hasn't happened yet as of 11 hours after the news was announced.

System = broken.

Edit: still nothing.
Modified by kuuderes_shadow, Dec 16, 2013 1:12 PM
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Monthly light novel sales ranks (from Jan 2015)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Dec 16, 2013 7:57 PM

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I'll add something for the MAL higher ups to ponder on:

I am baffled that the MAL higher ups haven't even bothered to see what the rest of the community thinks.

Is it really that hard to add a poll as a sticky in the News Discussion thread to actually have some sort of idea what the community thinks of the change? Assuming people don't care because they are silent is just not a good enough reason.
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly).
 
Dec 16, 2013 9:59 PM
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kuuderes_shadow said:
Date A Live announcement of airing date: 8:58 (GMT) this morning
I found out about it: 10:05
This is fairly typical amount of time for me to find out about something that I'm interested in if I'm on the internet all the time from when it is announced. In the past the news has almost always been posted on MAL by this time, or someone is in the process of writing up the news story. I decided not to submit it in order to see how long it took to be sorted out.
Crunchyroll posted the news: 15:31
Info posted on Tohka/Kurumi Fanclub on MAL: <30 mins later
(I got fed up waiting and posted it on the suggestions thread at some point this evening - and deleted that post shortly before making this one)
Thread posted on Date A Live 2nd Season forums: 19:44

News thread unlocked with new info posted: hasn't happened yet as of 11 hours after the news was announced.

System = broken.

Edit: still nothing.


I'm not sure the announcement thread will ever be updated with the airing date. The criteria of what qualifies as "newsworthy" and therefore worth being posted in the News forum is quite unclear. I wouldn't be surprised if it's decided by however a forum mod (not news mod) happens to feel about it at the time. Perhaps it should be renamed the "News that the forum mods happen to think is important" forum.
 
Dec 16, 2013 11:21 PM

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If there is one thing that people want to know about more than any other it's when a series will air. You physically cannot claim that it is not in the interest of the majority to find this out.

Ejc said:
I'll add something for the MAL higher ups to ponder on:

I am baffled that the MAL higher ups haven't even bothered to see what the rest of the community thinks.

Is it really that hard to add a poll as a sticky in the News Discussion thread to actually have some sort of idea what the community thinks of the change? Assuming people don't care because they are silent is just not a good enough reason.


You know it is very easy to manipulate a poll to get people to give the answer you want, right?
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Monthly light novel sales ranks (from Jan 2015)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Dec 16, 2013 11:34 PM

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kuuderes_shadow said:
If there is one thing that people want to know about more than any other it's when a series will air. You physically cannot claim that it is not in the interest of the majority to find this out.

Ejc said:
I'll add something for the MAL higher ups to ponder on:

I am baffled that the MAL higher ups haven't even bothered to see what the rest of the community thinks.

Is it really that hard to add a poll as a sticky in the News Discussion thread to actually have some sort of idea what the community thinks of the change? Assuming people don't care because they are silent is just not a good enough reason.


You know it is very easy to manipulate a poll to get people to give the answer you want, right?


I know, but it'll be better than what they're doing now, by assuming the silent majority approves of their changes to the News Discussion forum. I'm not saying to make whatever the result of a possible poll, a mandate. I'm saying that a poll can gauge what the community thinks and the higher ups can consider and discuss further on what should be done.

Perhaps the silent majority just hasn't realised the implications this change has, hasn't read the additional post in the sticky by Luna_, or haven't been reading through threads thoroughly enough to realise that this change has occurred.

It'll also be unfair to assume a silent majority (the ones who actually use the News Discussion forum, as not all of the 2M MAL users actually venture there), if some of those people don't even frequent the News Discussion forum, which means they don't care what happens regardless.
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly).
 
Dec 17, 2013 6:46 AM
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kuuderes_shadow said:
If there is one thing that people want to know about more than any other it's when a series will air. You physically cannot claim that it is not in the interest of the majority to find this out.


If this policy change has taught us anything, perhaps it is that the forum mods and those of us here in the community don't always see things the same way, so don't put it past them to ignore a series' airing date. To us it may seem like common sense to update the News forum with the airing date, but to them, (if Date A Live is an indication) perhaps not so much. Or perhaps they are trying to push people out of the News forum and into the series forum by only allowing updates to be posted in the series forum? It's difficult to say for sure because we don't know their reasoning, and they don't seem to be interested in communicating about it with us.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 17, 2013 7:08 AM
 
Dec 17, 2013 7:55 AM
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I submitted a news story on Date A Live II so let's see if that news gets out.

Since we are doing updates for frustratingly locked threads, Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? is also slated for April
http://0taku.livedoor.biz/archives/4592036.html
 
Dec 17, 2013 12:23 PM
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AbZeroNow said:
I submitted a news story on Date A Live II so let's see if that news gets out.

Since we are doing updates for frustratingly locked threads, Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? is also slated for April
http://0taku.livedoor.biz/archives/4592036.html


FYI if you are referring to the Date A Live airing date it probably won't be posted in the News forum. Apparently airing dates are considered not "newsworthy" and therefore are not posted under the new policy, as counterintuitive/ridiculous as that may sound. I guess they don't think anyone will discuss it? Who knows what exactly the forum mods are thinking...
 
Dec 17, 2013 6:51 PM
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Hahalollawl said:
AbZeroNow said:
I submitted a news story on Date A Live II so let's see if that news gets out.

Since we are doing updates for frustratingly locked threads, Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? is also slated for April
http://0taku.livedoor.biz/archives/4592036.html


FYI if you are referring to the Date A Live airing date it probably won't be posted in the News forum. Apparently airing dates are considered not "newsworthy" and therefore are not posted under the new policy, as counterintuitive/ridiculous as that may sound. I guess they don't think anyone will discuss it? Who knows what exactly the forum mods are thinking...


I was informed by one of the News Mods that the airing date will be part of a larger Weekly News thread so maybe they're consolidating the smaller news items into that so the News Discussion thread is less cluttered.
 
Dec 17, 2013 8:07 PM
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AbZeroNow said:
Hahalollawl said:
AbZeroNow said:
I submitted a news story on Date A Live II so let's see if that news gets out.

Since we are doing updates for frustratingly locked threads, Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? is also slated for April
http://0taku.livedoor.biz/archives/4592036.html


FYI if you are referring to the Date A Live airing date it probably won't be posted in the News forum. Apparently airing dates are considered not "newsworthy" and therefore are not posted under the new policy, as counterintuitive/ridiculous as that may sound. I guess they don't think anyone will discuss it? Who knows what exactly the forum mods are thinking...


I was informed by one of the News Mods that the airing date will be part of a larger Weekly News thread so maybe they're consolidating the smaller news items into that so the News Discussion thread is less cluttered.


Since this weekly news thread has yet to materialize I wouldn't get your hopes up for it...by the time the Weekly News thread is posted the news about Date A Live's airing date might be over a week old lol. Will they include all of the news that they have missed because threads have been locked? What will be included and what won't be? So many questions, so few answers.

And in turn for making the News forum "less cluttered" they are going to make ONE thread for all of the news that isn't deemed worthy of it's own thread or worthy of updating the old one? How in the world do you put all of that news together without making a giant mess? Will people be allowed to comment in this consolidated thread? And won't that create a mess of comments on various different shows all in one thread? And I suppose they expect people to look through all of the news they list to find the news they want? Yeah right. What if the announcement is made on the last day of the week, does that mean it's only listed for one day? Or will they keep track of when they post every piece of news and delete it exactly one week from when it was added? I suspect the reason they haven't created this "Weekly News thread" yet is that they haven't thought it through very well and/or haven't figured out how to make it work. Perhaps they should consider the possibility that it WON'T work...Such shortsightedness...

Edit: I suppose at the very least, this makes for an interesting experiment. I guess it could be amusing to watch it crash and burn. However, I don't envy the job of the News Mods if they are responsible for this experiment, but if they agree to the policy then perhaps they are willing to accept the consequences.
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 18, 2013 12:28 AM
 
Dec 17, 2013 8:10 PM

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I'm curious if seiyuu announcements are deemed newsworthy under the new rules? They did post the cast of an English dub, so if it's deemed not newsworthy... then this is even more of a mess.
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly).
 
Dec 17, 2013 8:12 PM
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Ejc said:
I'm curious if seiyuu announcements are deemed newsworthy under the new rules? They did post the cast of an English dub, so if it's deemed not newsworthy... then this is even more of a mess.


They are supposedly not...except when they are...apparently. So...maybe? lol.
 
Dec 18, 2013 12:03 AM

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Ejc said:
I'm curious if seiyuu announcements are deemed newsworthy under the new rules? They did post the cast of an English dub, so if it's deemed not newsworthy... then this is even more of a mess.


Seiyuu announcements are newsworthy to an extend. They wouldn't receive their own news thread unless paired with something such as an airing date however.

We recently finalized on how information such as seiyuu announcements, airing dates, news that falls just short of getting it's own thread, etc. will be posted. You'll begin to see this soon and by soon I mean very soon.

In regards to an English dub being posted, I'm assuming you're referring to this. The reason why the English dub was posted this time around and not other times is because it is a Miyazaki film. These films aren't just done by typical English voice actors. English dub casts for say some random anime series are almost never newsworthy enough to get it's own thread.

I would also like to add that myself along with other staff have read through the posts in this thread and posts in other locations as well on this topic. If you would like to call what we will be doing an "experiment" then I supposed that would be fine. There were clear problems with the way the news board worked and we are trying to fix those problems. There are positives and negatives to most things and and this is no different. Come time we hope people can see the positives and help try to fix the negatives. Expect a more formal response from Kineta soon, but I wanted to respond so that you guys aren't left thinking no one is reading your concerns because we are.
“News travels fast in places where nothing much ever happens.” ― Charles Bukowski
 
Dec 18, 2013 12:09 AM

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Wind_Sr said:

Seiyuu announcements are newsworthy to an extend. They wouldn't receive their own news thread unless paired with something such as an airing date however.

We recently finalized on how information such as seiyuu announcements, airing dates, news that falls just short of getting it's own thread, etc. will be posted. You'll begin to see this soon and by soon I mean very soon.


Okay, but why not wait until that's ready before implementing the policy?

P.S. I know that it's too late for that now.

edit: also, airing dates of anime have been given their own threads before now.
Modified by kuuderes_shadow, Dec 18, 2013 12:15 AM
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Monthly light novel sales ranks (from Jan 2015)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Dec 18, 2013 12:35 AM

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kuuderes_shadow said:
Okay, but why not wait until that's ready before implementing the policy?


The locking of news threads was talked about a while back and so we started to discuss how we could get some of these less important, but still important news out to people. The policy then just sort of jumped out at us news mods (before you say it, yes it could have been communicated a little better) and we hadn't finalized what we wanted to do yet. We have it all set now though.

kuuderes_shadow said:
edit: also, airing dates of anime have been given their own threads before now.


I haven't been a news mod for too long and I'm not 100% sure how things were before I was one, but this had to have been before I was here. I don't remember any recent examples before the recent changes of this happening and I only know of maybe 1 to 2 examples of this happening in the past.
“News travels fast in places where nothing much ever happens.” ― Charles Bukowski
 
Dec 18, 2013 8:14 AM
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Wind_Sr said:
kuuderes_shadow said:
Okay, but why not wait until that's ready before implementing the policy?


The locking of news threads was talked about a while back and so we started to discuss how we could get some of these less important, but still important news out to people. The policy then just sort of jumped out at us news mods (before you say it, yes it could have been communicated a little better) and we hadn't finalized what we wanted to do yet. We have it all set now though.

kuuderes_shadow said:
edit: also, airing dates of anime have been given their own threads before now.


I haven't been a news mod for too long and I'm not 100% sure how things were before I was one, but this had to have been before I was here. I don't remember any recent examples before the recent changes of this happening and I only know of maybe 1 to 2 examples of this happening in the past.


Edit: Be warned before you read this, this might sting. And it should. But I think it expresses the feelings of a lot of the people in this thread. Feel free to ignore this post if you like though.

The way the policy was implemented (suddenly, and as far as I know with no prior communication) was perhaps the biggest mistake of this whole thing. It sowed the seeds of mistrust right from the beginning, which is a lesson the forum mods may want to take to heart.

You can claim to have the best interests of the forum and its users in mind, but when you take sudden drastic action without communicating with users, you lose a lot of credibility in that department because it seems to imply that communicating with the community (much less asking them for their opinions) is unimportant or wasn't worth your time. Why would anyone think you made this change because you care about the forums users when you don't seem to care about them enough to let them know you're going to make the change in the first place? I'm not sure how nobody noticed this contradiction (or perhaps they did and really just didn't care?).

By implementing the policy this way, the mods made it easy for people to lose trust in them and question the motives behind the change. It's particularly easy to lose faith in the mods if nobody bothers to explain the rationale behind the change beyond a few sentences in the "rules" post. Apparently the forum mods thought old threads were getting bumped too much. And yet, was there any sort of warning that this problem had gotten out of hand, or that the News forum was a wreck and that they were contemplating taking drastic action to fix it? Not as far as I know. It just happened one day.

By the way, it also looks bad when, after implementing a change with little or no communication, not a single mod responds to a thread in the suggestion forum about said change until well over a week after the thread was created. Perhaps you might think that kind of expectation is set too high, or we are acting entitled? Yet, that thread about "Do we need more Forum Mods?" was posted days after this one and received a response MINUTES after it was posted. So that deserves a quick response but this does not? What reason would we have to think that the mods are paying attention to this thread and our objections or care at all about what we think? We have been given little or no indication of this so far.

Also, I'm aware that the News mods are not responsible for this change. That's why I've been trying to direct my criticism at the forum mods. It's pretty clear that this change came from the higher ups.

As for the Weekly News thread idea, if it has never been done before it seems to be pretty obviously an experiment. And I think it is pretty easy to see that there are many potential problems with this idea. But again, it hasn't been particularly well explained either. Edit: By the way, the Weekly News thread idea reeks of a bandaid being thrown together to try to fix a gaping hole in a messed up policy. You know what REALLY suggests the mods didn't think this policy through very well before implementing it? The fact that the Weekly News thread and the policy itself were not implemented at the same time. If the mods had thought this policy through why is it taking so long to implement this Weekly News thread idea?
Modified by Hahalollawl, Dec 19, 2013 5:06 AM
 
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