Forum Settings
Forums
Poll: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Movie 3: Hangyaku no Monogatari Episode 1 Discussion


Dec 8, 2013 9:43 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 107
zinjashike said:
So, I watched it today (official sub) and there's only one part I really don't understand:



I think that's the largest crux the official subs have created. Noting the "rip" translations seem to be substantially different from what I've seen/heard this makes the intentions much more vague.


Could work either way. Will depend on how they choose to do it in the next movie or 2nd season.
 
Dec 8, 2013 10:13 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 122
zinjashike said:
So, I watched it today (official sub) and there's only one part I really don't understand:



I think that's the largest crux the official subs have created. Noting the "rip" translations seem to be substantially different from what I've seen/heard this makes the intentions much more vague.

Well seeing how she also mentions the Wraiths apparently still being around, surely Madoka's system must still be working in some fashion... How this can be when Madoka is no longer around to destroy Soul Gems that are at the breaking point is anyone's guess however, because it sure doesn't look like Homura's doing anything about it...
 
Dec 9, 2013 12:44 AM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 28
-Quasar said:
Apparently extreme lesbianism can corrupt a soul gem and turn a mahou shoujo into a supreme being far greater than a God. Okay.

Best. Ok, I no longer feel like crying.
 
Dec 9, 2013 3:45 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
i feel like they changed the ending just so they could milk more out of the franchise. disappointing. homura's character is cheapened now for it.
 
Dec 9, 2013 8:08 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 891
Never forget, that if you post a topic, you're not allowed to post in it yourself, by order of MAL administration.
 
Dec 9, 2013 10:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 107
rtil said:
i feel like they changed the ending just so they could milk more out of the franchise. disappointing. homura's character is cheapened now for it.


If you watch the series again, then watch the 3rd movie, her actions in movie 3 are a natural extension of her character. There are a lot of nuances in the dialogue in episode 12 that I missed in my first watch.

Homura 'turn' begins as early as the flower field scene in the third movie.
Modified by Esclair, Dec 9, 2013 10:58 AM
 
Dec 9, 2013 11:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 55
Esclair said:
rtil said:
i feel like they changed the ending just so they could milk more out of the franchise. disappointing. homura's character is cheapened now for it.


If you watch the series again, then watch the 3rd movie, her actions in movie 3 are a natural extension of her character. There are a lot of nuances in the dialogue in episode 12 that I missed in my first watch.

Homura 'turn' begins as early as the flower field scene in the third movie.


What dialogue in episode 12 you talking about? Can you give me a quote? So you are saying that "devil" ending was not a last minute rewrite?
 
Dec 9, 2013 11:59 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 107
Tachikoma1701 said:
Esclair said:
rtil said:
i feel like they changed the ending just so they could milk more out of the franchise. disappointing. homura's character is cheapened now for it.


If you watch the series again, then watch the 3rd movie, her actions in movie 3 are a natural extension of her character. There are a lot of nuances in the dialogue in episode 12 that I missed in my first watch.

Homura 'turn' begins as early as the flower field scene in the third movie.


What dialogue in episode 12 you talking about? Can you give me a quote? So you are saying that "devil" ending was not a last minute rewrite?


The devil ending was not in the original script that Gen wrote. However, after Shinbo suggested making Homura and Madoka enemies, Gen was inspired to make this ending.

So if you rewatch episode 12, you'll see that Homura was never really 'satisfied' with Madoka's decision. Even when they were together in the 'outside' plane Homura kept questioning whether Madoka is okay with the sacrifice she's making. Homura is completely devastated by what Madoka is giving up while Madoka is comforting her telling her it's not so bad. Homura finally decided to honor Madoka's choice (of course she didn't have much of an alternative).

So her purpose changed from protecting Madoka to protecting Madoka's ideals. That's why in the new world when she jumps off the building to fight the wraiths, she says even though this world is full of sorrow and despair and doesn't deserve to be saved, she'll still fight because Madoka wanted to protect it. She doesn't care about the world at all. However, the only way she could still protect Madoka is by protecting Madoka's wish, so that's her new purpose. She doesn't look happy at all as she says that line.

In the third movie, we get a clearer look at Homura's purpose as she thinks the existence of the witch itself is a blasphemy to Madoka's sacrifice to for the world, and she'll eliminate it without prejudice (the convo between Sayaka and Homura when Sayaka asks isn't it okay that everyone's living happily in this Labyrinth?).

In the flower field scene between Madoka and Homura, Homura realizes this is the real Madoka and from Madoka's answers realizes that it'd be the most painful thing for Madoka to not be with her friends and family. She then says that she should have never let Madoka make that wish and should have stopped her. At this point Homura is already regretting her choice and thinks that she failed to protect Madoka at the end of the series.

Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore.

On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka).

So finding out Kyubei has plans for Madoka, as well as Madoka's true feelings on her sacrifice causes Homura to think she failed in protecting Madoka, and thus determined to truly 'protect' her.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I'd need to watch it a third time to really confirm everything.
Modified by Esclair, Dec 9, 2013 12:16 PM
 
Dec 9, 2013 12:18 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
I went and saw the movie in Cleveland yesterday. Pretty cool seeing it on the big screen. It looked and sounded gorgeous. I've finally collected all of my thoughts about it:

Modified by FierceAlchemist, Dec 9, 2013 12:23 PM
 
Dec 9, 2013 12:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Esclair said:
Tachikoma1701 said:
Esclair said:
rtil said:
i feel like they changed the ending just so they could milk more out of the franchise. disappointing. homura's character is cheapened now for it.


If you watch the series again, then watch the 3rd movie, her actions in movie 3 are a natural extension of her character. There are a lot of nuances in the dialogue in episode 12 that I missed in my first watch.

Homura 'turn' begins as early as the flower field scene in the third movie.


What dialogue in episode 12 you talking about? Can you give me a quote? So you are saying that "devil" ending was not a last minute rewrite?


The devil ending was not in the original script that Gen wrote. However, after Shinbo suggested making Homura and Madoka enemies, Gen was inspired to make this ending.

So if you rewatch episode 12, you'll see that Homura was never really 'satisfied' with Madoka's decision. Even when they were together in the 'outside' plane Homura kept questioning whether Madoka is okay with the sacrifice she's making. Homura is completely devastated by what Madoka is giving up while Madoka is comforting her telling her it's not so bad. Homura finally decided to honor Madoka's choice (of course she didn't have much of an alternative).

So her purpose changed from protecting Madoka to protecting Madoka's ideals. That's why in the new world when she jumps off the building to fight the wraiths, she says even though this world is full of sorrow and despair and doesn't deserve to be saved, she'll still fight because Madoka wanted to protect it. She doesn't care about the world at all. However, the only way she could still protect Madoka is by protecting Madoka's wish, so that's her new purpose. She doesn't look happy at all as she says that line.

In the third movie, we get a clearer look at Homura's purpose as she thinks the existence of the witch itself is a blasphemy to Madoka's sacrifice to for the world, and she'll eliminate it without prejudice (the convo between Sayaka and Homura when Sayaka asks isn't it okay that everyone's living happily in this Labyrinth?).

In the flower field scene between Madoka and Homura, Homura realizes this is the real Madoka and from Madoka's answers realizes that it'd be the most painful thing for Madoka to not be with her friends and family. She then says that she should have never let Madoka make that wish and should have stopped her. At this point Homura is already regretting her choice and thinks that she failed to protect Madoka at the end of the series.

Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore.

On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka).

So finding out Kyubei has plans for Madoka, as well as Madoka's true feelings on her sacrifice causes Homura to think she failed in protecting Madoka, and thus determined to truly 'protect' her.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I'd need to watch it a third time to really confirm everything.


I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think the flower scene is the real turning point for Homura. Didn't realize how much could be read into that scene where Madoka pulls Homura out of the witch. I want to go and watch it again so I can catch all the foreshadowing.
 
Dec 9, 2013 1:23 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 55
Esclair said:
Tachikoma1701 said:
Esclair said:
rtil said:
The devil ending was not in the original script that Gen wrote. However, after Shinbo suggested making Homura and Madoka enemies, Gen was inspired to make this ending.

So if you rewatch episode 12, you'll see that Homura was never really 'satisfied' with Madoka's decision. Even when they were together in the 'outside' plane Homura kept questioning whether Madoka is okay with the sacrifice she's making. Homura is completely devastated by what Madoka is giving up while Madoka is comforting her telling her it's not so bad. Homura finally decided to honor Madoka's choice (of course she didn't have much of an alternative).

So her purpose changed from protecting Madoka to protecting Madoka's ideals. That's why in the new world when she jumps off the building to fight the wraiths, she says even though this world is full of sorrow and despair and doesn't deserve to be saved, she'll still fight because Madoka wanted to protect it. She doesn't care about the world at all. However, the only way she could still protect Madoka is by protecting Madoka's wish, so that's her new purpose. She doesn't look happy at all as she says that line. (...) real Madoka and from Madoka's answers realizes that it'd be the most painful thing for Madoka to not be with her friends and family.


Well, I didn't asked about 3 movie, I asked about quote from TV series that could confirm what you said about Homura's development in the movie. So where are those quotes, telling us that Homura was unhappy about her new role and about Madoka's becoming a goddess? Yes, she was crying at first, because she thought that Madoka's fate was worse than death, and she wasn't happy that she was separated from Madoka, but in the end she accepted her new role and was happy about it - she even cracked a smile when she was talking to Madoka's family and she smiled, in after the credits scene, when she heard Madoka's voice. And off course, in the end of the series, Akemi was fighting to commemorate Madoka's memory - that was final messege of the show: "Don't forget. Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember her, you are not alone." And that was the point that TV show was making: yes, world can be cruel and uncaring place, where tragedy and sorrow happen all the time, but as long as you have someone who is caring for you - even if this is only memory of someone- as long, life is worth living. Nice message. Shame that now it's flushed down the toilet with the rest of TV series... You know, since now love can apparently turn you into "the devil". Not happy about this and about TV series being practically rebooted - universe keeps getting rewritten is ridiculous. How can I be emotionally invested in story and characters, when they don't really matter since they will be rewritten in the end? All characters arc and decisions are now, essentially meaningless.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but in flower field scene, Madoka didn't remembered events that lead to her to making her wish? And best friends becoming enemies - it's quite cliche...
Modified by Tachikoma1701, Dec 10, 2013 2:32 AM
 
Dec 9, 2013 1:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
skudoops said:
xLastSighAMV said:
I only have one thing to say about this movie.
IT IS FINALLY FUCKING DONE
Now, please shaft, focus on something more important than milking money out of popular series, like... well i don't know... making Kizumonogatari maybe?


Isn't that essentially milking money out of a popular series as well? Madoka and Monogatari are SHAFT's two biggest franchises.


There's a big difference between milking money and animating a novel that they sould've done a long time ago.
 
Dec 9, 2013 2:42 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 815
Homura`s journey into madness reminds me so much of Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader). Everything starts off so innocent with the purest intentions but along the way things don`t go the way he/she envisioned. Unfortunate and tragic events has twisted and muddled their outlook on life and has left them continuing with their cause but taking it to extreme measures that effects everything and everyone around them; even the ones they love. Homura, like Anakin has deceived and betrayed the people who loved and trusted him. In spite of all the love and trust they gave him it really wasn’t enough. Most people like this are delusional and do more harm because they are in their mind doing the right thing.

Homura's intentions has really turned for the worse. Sure she gets to finally save and protect the person she adores yet at the cost of Madoka's free will and purpose of existing. Now Madoka and everyone else is a prisoner in her rewritten reality where she has full control of the universe. It's really tragic that it has come to this. In the beginning it wasn't supposed to be this way. At first she just wanted to undo Madoka's death, then Madoka made her swear to keep her from forming a contract with Kyubey. From that point on it has snowballed into something unimaginable and twisted it has surpassed rational thinking. Homura's declaration of her intentions were driven by "LOVE" but in my honest opinion, was a delusional and convoluted attempt to justify her misguided and selfish desire to save Madoka from a decision she has already decided wholeheartedly with NO REGRET whatsoever. Homura has lost herself in her original mission of saving Madoka from death and keeping her from forming a contract that she didn't even realize Madoka finally found the wish to fulfill every magical girl's hopes and dreams by becoming Hope itself. The ending of the TV series has shown us that Madoka was never saddened or regretting her choice because all of you should realize that she already knows how things will work out in the end even before it begins. She transcends time and space which means she'll be reunited with everyone eventually when their time comes for them to move on to a higher level of existence. Homura in her limited mortal form couldn't comprehend and otherwise understand what Madoka was really about and what she actually achieved for everyone's salvation. Homura decision was motivated not by LOVE but by OBSESSION. In time we'll see how Homura's world will turn out but for now she's in charge and no one can stand in her way.
"Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums.

USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST:
SSL443 - Dr4kon
To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done.
Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed.
 
Dec 9, 2013 3:57 PM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 24
is there any info BD release for this madoka movie 3?
cant wait for it
 
Dec 9, 2013 4:45 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Janethan23 said:
Homura`s journey into madness reminds me so much of Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader). Everything starts off so innocent with the purest intentions but along the way things don`t go the way he/she envisioned. Unfortunate and tragic events has twisted and muddled their outlook on life and has left them continuing with their cause but taking it to extreme measures that effects everything and everyone around them; even the ones they love. Homura, like Anakin has deceived and betrayed the people who loved and trusted him. In spite of all the love and trust they gave him it really wasn’t enough. Most people like this are delusional and do more harm because they are in their mind doing the right thing.

Homura's intentions has really turned for the worse. Sure she gets to finally save and protect the person she adores yet at the cost of Madoka's free will and purpose of existing. Now Madoka and everyone else is a prisoner in her rewritten reality where she has full control of the universe. It's really tragic that it has come to this. In the beginning it wasn't supposed to be this way. At first she just wanted to undo Madoka's death, then Madoka made her swear to keep her from forming a contract with Kyubey. From that point on it has snowballed into something unimaginable and twisted it has surpassed rational thinking. Homura's declaration of her intentions were driven by "LOVE" but in my honest opinion, was a delusional and convoluted attempt to justify her misguided and selfish desire to save Madoka from a decision she has already decided wholeheartedly with NO REGRET whatsoever. Homura has lost herself in her original mission of saving Madoka from death and keeping her from forming a contract that she didn't even realize Madoka finally found the wish to fulfill every magical girl's hopes and dreams by becoming Hope itself. The ending of the TV series has shown us that Madoka was never saddened or regretting her choice because all of you should realize that she already knows how things will work out in the end even before it begins. She transcends time and space which means she'll be reunited with everyone eventually when their time comes for them to move on to a higher level of existence. Homura in her limited mortal form couldn't comprehend and otherwise understand what Madoka was really about and what she actually achieved for everyone's salvation. Homura decision was motivated not by LOVE but by OBSESSION. In time we'll see how Homura's world will turn out but for now she's in charge and no one can stand in her way.


Kinda funny actually, in the brochure's for the movie, Gen Orobuchi said something very similar: (source: http://feral-phoenix.livejournal.com/685568.html#%7C)

Stories where characters grow and change are very traditional. Does this mean that Madoka Magica is conforming to archetype?

Urobuchi: Even in “Star Wars”, Anakin is a cute little kid in Episode I, but by Episode III he grows up to be Darth Vader. But you know, “that’s how stories are”. I think the choice of whether or not to accept that is up to the viewers.

I do find myself sympathizing a lot with Homura even though she's done such a horrible thing. All she ever wanted was for Madoka to live and be happy, but the ending of the TV show denied that to her. I think she accepted it for a while, but eventually the loneliness got to her and drove her into despair. In the flower scene, Madoka tells Homura that she would never cause Homura such pain, to which Homura responds, "Are these your true feelings then? Then I was a fool to have misunderstood it. I should not have approved. I should have used every possible mean to stop you back then."

Later when Madoka pulls Homura out of her witch state, Homura apologizes for being a coward and says she'll bear any sin as long as they can be together. Homura does love Madoka, but it's a selfish love where she forces happiness upon Madoka regardless of her feelings. A lot depends of whether or not the Law of Cycles still exists within Homura's world. If it does, then magical girls are still saved before they become witches and everyone is alive again. That makes Homura's world seem ideal, although I doubt she can keep it that way without eventually facing some repercussions.
 
Dec 9, 2013 4:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
ise24 said:
is there any info BD release for this madoka movie 3?
cant wait for it


A quick Google search says not yet. I'm sure one will come out in Japan in about 4-6 months, though we'll have to wait a while for an english release.
 
Dec 9, 2013 5:51 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3
I just finished it, I can't rate it yet. A lot of parts reminded me of EoE but I really need to see it again.
Fresh
 
Dec 9, 2013 7:13 PM
Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
francesthemute said:
I just finished it, I can't rate it yet. A lot of parts reminded me of EoE but I really need to see it again.

Mmm. Madoka is an all time favorite of mine so I saw it twice. Wish I got tickets to the third showing they tacked on in MA too. A third time would have been nice. Not that excessive, right? :D I've watched the TV series a good 6+ times as well.
 
Dec 9, 2013 7:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
ZenErik said:
francesthemute said:
I just finished it, I can't rate it yet. A lot of parts reminded me of EoE but I really need to see it again.

Mmm. Madoka is an all time favorite of mine so I saw it twice. Wish I got tickets to the third showing they tacked on in MA too. A third time would have been nice. Not that excessive, right? :D I've watched the TV series a good 6+ times as well.


I had to drive 7 hours round trip to Cleveland to see it, and I still want to go back and watch it again. I feel like now that I've taken the time to figure out the ending, the whole film would be really interesting on rewatch.
 
Dec 9, 2013 7:43 PM
DatLookTho

Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7283
Just watched the movie @ the theater.
10/10.
Didn't think it would've been this good.
My 3 favorite scenes were Homura telling Kyubey to shut up, the Kyouko x Sayaka moment (yuri so canon) and Homura turning into a demon.

Demonmura was so fantastic. So mad. So incredible. And my heart is shattered because of it. Her love for Madoka was so strong ;___;

I'd honestly rewatch it again. Preferred it to the series itself tbh.
 
Dec 9, 2013 7:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
sarroush said:
Just watched the movie @ the theater.
10/10.
Didn't think it would've been this good.
My 3 favorite scenes were Homura telling Kyubey to shut up, the Kyouko x Sayaka moment (yuri so canon) and Homura turning into a demon.

Demonmura was so fantastic. So mad. So incredible. And my heart is shattered because of it. Her love for Madoka was so strong ;___;

I'd honestly rewatch it again. Preferred it to the series itself tbh.


I would say that even though I loved the movie, I still prefer the TV show simply because it had a really really good ending. This movie left a lot of things open and I hope whatever comes next will wrap up the story and make this film the "Empire Strikes Back" of the saga.

My 3 favorite moments would be Homura and Madoka in that field of flowers, Homura stealing Madoka's power, and Homura vs. Mami. I'd honestly rank that as one of the coolest fights I've ever seen in an anime.
 
Dec 9, 2013 8:02 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 122
Watched the movie a few hours ago and I thought it was great.

The only thing I didn't like was Nagisa. She didn't really do anything. I wish she had a bigger role.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

 
Dec 9, 2013 8:42 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1205
devilsrider said:
Watched the movie a few hours ago and I thought it was great.

The only thing I didn't like was Nagisa. She didn't really do anything. I wish she had a bigger role.


She basically had no role in the film whatsoever, besides satisfying the fans by giving a human form to Charlotte and giving GSC an excuse to milk money out of another figure.

Speaking of which, Akuma Homura is definitely going to get a figure sometime in the future. And I'm going to end up buying it. Fuck.

Having just finished watching the film in theatres, I'm quite conflicted about what to think. I was perfectly content with the conclusion the original series presented, but at the same time, the premise of the third film is, FOR THE MOST PART, quite plausible as Homura's actions are completely justifiable in the context of her character. However, I feel as though this movie is completely unnecessary in that it does not add to the series in any way. It doesn't leave me satisfied at all, but I suppose I could potentially accept it as a standalone film. Which simply means that I'm going to have to watch it again when I have the time.

At least the cinematography was astonishingly good. That fight sequence between Mami and Homura had me completely mesmerized.
Modified by Yuna, Dec 9, 2013 8:48 PM
 
Dec 9, 2013 9:08 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Luxanna said:
devilsrider said:
Watched the movie a few hours ago and I thought it was great.

The only thing I didn't like was Nagisa. She didn't really do anything. I wish she had a bigger role.


She basically had no role in the film whatsoever, besides satisfying the fans by giving a human form to Charlotte and giving GSC an excuse to milk money out of another figure.

Speaking of which, Akuma Homura is definitely going to get a figure sometime in the future. And I'm going to end up buying it. Fuck.

Having just finished watching the film in theatres, I'm quite conflicted about what to think. I was perfectly content with the conclusion the original series presented, but at the same time, the premise of the third film is, FOR THE MOST PART, quite plausible as Homura's actions are completely justifiable in the context of her character. However, I feel as though this movie is completely unnecessary in that it does not add to the series in any way. It doesn't leave me satisfied at all, but I suppose I could potentially accept it as a standalone film. Which simply means that I'm going to have to watch it again when I have the time.

At least the cinematography was astonishingly good. That fight sequence between Mami and Homura had me completely mesmerized.


I will agree that Nagisa didn't do much. However, I would fight the idea that the movie doesn't add to the series. The universe has been rewritten again and we're set up for a new beginning. Plus Homura has basically become the devil and seems to have almost complete control over this new world. We've been introduced to this new entity that Homura has become which is neither witch nor magical girl and that Madoka can send down dead magical girls with their witch powers. The movie added so much to the series, it practically flipped everything we knew on its head. Because of this it doesn't feel very conclusive, but they're obviously setting us up for a new series or movie. I think that's where we'll get our true ending.
 
Dec 9, 2013 9:34 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1205
What I mean is that the series was fine as is. I don't feel like the film added much besides opening up the possibility of another sequel.

In short, the film's ending sets up a scenario that is even less satisfying and conclusive than the original ending.
 
Dec 9, 2013 9:52 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Luxanna said:
What I mean is that the series was fine as is. I don't feel like the film added much besides opening up the possibility of another sequel.

In short, the film's ending sets up a scenario that is even less satisfying and conclusive than the original ending.


I would agree that the original series was fine as it was. It didn't need a sequel and had a nearly perfect ending. However, I think the movie went in a pretty logical direction for a sequel. What's the one thing Kyubey would want most in the new universe: to understand and control the unexplainable phenomenon called the Law of Cycles. As of right now, the movie isn't much of a conclusion in comparison to the tv show, but I think it's set the stage for a very interesting new series to start. The real question is how will that new series end?
 
Dec 9, 2013 9:59 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1205
As much as I love Madoka, I don't want any more of it. :(
 
Dec 9, 2013 10:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Luxanna said:
As much as I love Madoka, I don't want any more of it. :(


It's a weird paradox where we as fans want more of something if we like it, yet we don't want it to damage our feelings of the original. It has to be equal to or better than the original in some way for us to accept it. When it's the original staff that worked on the project, I usually will give them the benefit of the doubt. If you see a sequel being made by completely different people or companies, it's usually a bad sign.

I've seen some fans say that this movie was just a cash grab and a way to turn Madoka into a franchise. And while I won't deny the movie is obviously in place so they can make more Madoka, anyone who thinks Shaft didn't pour their hearts and souls into this film is deluding themselves. You don't pour this much creativity, money and effort into some cheap cash grab you don't really care about. Just look at the witch sequences in the movie, they look unbelievable. I read that they made 2300 storyboards for this film, which is apparently really high.

I think we as fans can disagree with what direction the future of Madoka goes in. And if you don't like it, then you can ignore the existence of everything except the TV show; the other materials can't ruin that for anyone. But I personally have faith that as long as people who are passionate about this story like Orobuchi and Shinbou are at the helm, at the very least we can admire that they made something creative and interesting no matter how divisive it might be.
 
Dec 10, 2013 1:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 815
If there was one thing the series and the movie never had was an outright main villain. Some of you can point at Kyubey as the enemy but in retrospect he pretty much made a lot of sense when he explained about the concept of entropy. We also saw witches here and there and wraiths too but it's mainly manifestations of people's negative emotions or end results of magical girls who give in to despair. The Walpurginacht ain't exactly the main villain of the story but simply an accumulation of witches or maybe something I overlooked yet it's still ain't the one you can point your finger and blame. I was able to finish the TV series and movies 1&2 and then I saw the 3rd installment... Finally. Someone to root against. A well written character with a back story we can also sympathize with: Akemi Homura. Whether you love or hate her, the story finally gets a main antagonist that our heroes have to defeat throughout the course of the succeeding story. Thank goodness there's actually someone to defeat.
Modified by Janethan23, Dec 10, 2013 1:08 AM
"Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums.

USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST:
SSL443 - Dr4kon
To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done.
Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed.
 
Dec 10, 2013 1:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Janethan23 said:
If there was one thing the series and the movie never had was an outright main villain. Some of you can point at Kyubey as the enemy but in retrospect he pretty much made a lot of sense when he explained about the concept of entropy. We also saw witches here and there and wraiths too but it's mainly manifestations of people's negative emotions or end results of magical girls who give in to despair. The Walpurginacht ain't exactly the main villain of the story but simply an accumulation of witches or maybe something I overlooked yet it's still ain't the one you can point your finger and blame. I was able to finish the TV series and movies 1&2 and then I saw the 3rd installment... Finally. Someone to root against. A well written character with a back story we can also sympathize with: Akemi Homura. Whether you love or hate her, the story finally gets a main antagonist that our heroes have to defeat throughout the course of the succeeding story. Thank goodness there's actually someone to defeat.


I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're right. It's hard to call Kyubey the antagonist since there is no way to kill him given his infinite spare bodies. I guess now instead of primarily focusing on the girls' own faults as the number 1 enemy, it will be Homura. Although she too is a sympathetic villain. There is no pure black and white in Madoka, just a lot of grey.
 
Dec 10, 2013 3:21 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 55
Janethan23 said:
A well written character with a back story we can also sympathize with: Akemi Homura. Whether you love or hate her, the story finally gets a main antagonist that our heroes have to defeat throughout the course of the succeeding story. Thank goodness there's actually someone to defeat.


Well, one thing that I loved about original series was the fact that THERE WAS NO VILLAIN. That was a good thing. We had Kyubey who was doing bad things for good reasons, and misguided "heroes" who had good intentions, but their naivete, their inability to accept reality as it is, and their subconscious motives, cause more harm than good. That means that only real antagonist, was enemy within. Girls were doing this to themselves, no one forced them to make contract. Again, that moral ambiguity was a good thing. Now we have, "the devil" as main villain. Sorry, but that is black and white situation - I don't know why people are liking this? Why the Devil Is a Boring Bad Guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFwurmKW-z4

Sure, you can argue that Homura is doing bad things for a good reason, but in reality she is evil, and that make our protagonist automatically good by comparison.

FierceAlchemist said:
Luxanna said:
I will agree that Nagisa didn't do much. However, I would fight the idea that the movie doesn't add to the series. The universe has been rewritten again and we're set up for a new beginning.


How is that a good thing? I don't know how anyone could like original series and be happy about the fact that now TV series is quite literally irrelevant because it was basically rebooted, therefore all character arcs and character's decisions are now meaningless. You can't build a franchise on concept of choices and consequences and then say that those choices and consequences, don't matter. All girls - exept Homura - got out of the jail free card, for pity's sake. As for Homura herself, I think that my feelings towards her can be described as: audience induced apathy.
Modified by Tachikoma1701, Dec 10, 2013 3:35 AM
 
Dec 10, 2013 4:02 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
i find it strange that people think movies need good vs evil or protag vs antag in order to function - the very concept of good vs evil is flawed in nature. Miyazaki even argues this quite effectively, and his films don't follow the formula (http://pandawhale.com/post/20419/the-flawed-concept-of-good-vs-evil-philosophy-of-hayao-miyazaki)

MM did not have a villain - Kyuubey is incapable of being "evil", Kyuubey is only doing what he dictates as logical.

Rebellion didn't really have one either - even though Homura calls herself a devil, she's only acting like a typical yandere anime character on a cosmic scale - she's being selfish out of blind love and disregard for even what Madoka wanted. she hits a big fat deus ex machina reset button on the universe, and now we have a slightly different MM world for the second time.

do we really need to go through all of this again? Rebellion already made the original series an absolutely pointless endeavor. The only reason I can see there justifying another sequel or series is if the actions that happened in Rebellion are redeemed or there is some real resolution to the unstable world that Homura created.
 
Dec 10, 2013 4:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Tachikoma1701 said:
Janethan23 said:
A well written character with a back story we can also sympathize with: Akemi Homura. Whether you love or hate her, the story finally gets a main antagonist that our heroes have to defeat throughout the course of the succeeding story. Thank goodness there's actually someone to defeat.


Well, one thing that I loved about original series was the fact that THERE WAS NO VILLAIN. That was a good thing. We had Kyubey who was doing bad things for good reasons, and misguided "heroes" who had good intentions, but their naivete, their inability to accept reality as it is, and their subconscious motives, cause more harm than good. That means that only real antagonist, was enemy within. Girls were doing this to themselves, no one forced them to make contract. Again, that moral ambiguity was a good thing. Now we have, "the devil" as main villain. Sorry, but that is black and white situation - I don't know why people are liking this? Why the Devil Is a Boring Bad Guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFwurmKW-z4

Sure, you can argue that Homura is doing bad things for a good reason, but in reality she is evil, and that make our protagonist automatically good by comparison.

FierceAlchemist said:
Luxanna said:
I will agree that Nagisa didn't do much. However, I would fight the idea that the movie doesn't add to the series. The universe has been rewritten again and we're set up for a new beginning.


How is that a good thing? I don't know how anyone could like original series and be happy about the fact that now TV series is quite literally irrelevant because it was basically rebooted, therefore all character arcs and character's decisions are now meaningless. You can't build a franchise on concept of choices and consequences and then say that those choices and consequences, don't matter. All girls - exept Homura - got out of the jail free card, for pity's sake. As for Homura herself, I think that my feelings towards her can be described as: audience induced apathy.


It's sort of a mix of old and new. While Homura is repressing everyone's memories of the old world, it's already been shown with Madoka and Sayaka that her power isn't absolute. I think we're going to see the characters evolve as they starts to regain those memories, their old personalities blending with who they are in Homura's world. My perception is that Homura didn't rewrite the universe so much as take the place of its old ruler. Most things are the same as the universe Madoka made, she's just taken the stolen portion of Madoka's power and cast a barrier over the universe. The old cannot be totally erased, and we saw what happened in this movie when Homura clued in that something wasn't right. I think they'll all realize it eventually and either start their own rebellion or fight to protect this world if they think it'll make them happier.
 
Dec 10, 2013 5:37 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 30
What happened? Why would HomuHomu do something like that? If I barely understood the ending before, I can't even come close to comprehending what happened here. HomuHomu would never hurt Madoka... And yet...

The other worrisome thing is this is apparently the "concluding" movie of the trilogy and the series will remain unconnected to this. It was a beautiful movie and brilliant story... but it feels so unresolved.

Homura say to Madoka at the end, "Do you value stability and order in the world?" So did she beat Kyubey by chaining up Madoka or whatever? I don't understand! Is this some kind of deep scheme by Homura to hide from the Incubators meaning she's still good at heart? Or was it really fuelled out of her despair? But... she said it wasn't despair. It was love. Gah... I'm pulling my hair out!

Is this really how it will end? With Homura being pitted against Madoka, fighting her, unable to be together with her in the end? It's so sad. But if she took a piece of her... then would that mean she is in fact together? Also if it's just a piece... then that would argue Homura doesn't have sole dominion over the universe. Is Madoka busy still saving other magical girls? What has the reality turned into? I can't see how this could be a happy way of them being together. It's not what Madoka would have wanted... is it? Is Homura happy like this? It was a still a very good ending though... and wholly unexpected. If could just understand it a little better...

Oh and lastly that scene where they were singing around the table for the cake that Bebe will eat was so tripped up and amazing!! No, the whole thing was. But especially that. I want to see it again.
Modified by RaurosFalls, Dec 10, 2013 5:52 AM
 
Dec 10, 2013 6:10 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 699
sarroush said:
Just watched the movie @ the theater.
10/10.
Didn't think it would've been this good.
My 3 favorite scenes were Homura telling Kyubey to shut up, the Kyouko x Sayaka moment (yuri so canon) and Homura turning into a demon.

Demonmura was so fantastic. So mad. So incredible. And my heart is shattered because of it. Her love for Madoka was so strong ;___;

I'd honestly rewatch it again. Preferred it to the series itself tbh.

Yeah, I do prefer to the TV series as well!

They really stepped up their game with this one!

I think many people are ignoring that Homura was doing this for more than Madoka. Even though she's definitely completely and totally yandere for Madoka, she helped out Sayaka a great deal. Sayaka, by this movie, had finally come to terms with the situation with Kamijou, and realized how Kyouko had always been there for her. And regretted leaving Kyouko alone. But, with what Homura did, now Sayaka and Kyouko have another chance, this time without the weights of Kamijou, to build a relationship. It's against the natural order of things for sure, but everything about Madoka has been against the natural order of things. This could be said to have been more for Kyouko's sake than Sayaka's though, as Homura never really seemed to care much about Sayaka.

I just think that's often a point glossed over

I think what excited me the most about this movie, was the potential it opened up for another season. There's so many amazing ways it could go.

I, personally, thought the TV series' end was moreso a deus ex. There are many hints throughout the whole series that Homura's not quite a normal Magical Girl.

@RaurosFalls
The wording and stuff of the movie implies that the Law of Cycles will still continue as usual. Just, people can now remember Madoka and interact with her.


Also, I'm glad they finally made someone for Mami. She was such a fifth wheel until this movie. I'm really curious how Nagisa will fit into things!!
 
Dec 10, 2013 7:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 406
vampko said:
I, personally, thought the TV series' end was moreso a deus ex. There are many hints throughout the whole series that Homura's not quite a normal Magical Girl.


I don't see how the TV series ending was a deus ex. Madoka had the whole show to think about her wish, and it was implied fairly early on, iirc, that she could possibly wish for just about anything. It's finally explained in episode 11 by Kyubey that all the timelines Homura went through created parallel universes centered on Madoka, and all that combined karma manifested as her potential. Don't see how that's a deus ex.

In the movie, there was not even a single hint that Homura was capable of becoming Homucifer. That is a desu ex, an asspull. Sure, you could amount it to Homura's wish, but thing is, it's never explicitly said in the movie which can lead to people like me seeing it as contrived and out of nowhere, and until it's explained, I'll keep seeing it as such.

Also, what 'hints' are there that Homura isn't a normal magical girl in the show?
 
Dec 10, 2013 8:32 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 768
Great movie.

Homura become such a psycho ( scary honestly) also great action scene ( Homura vs Mami ) and we got close to have real fan services more than one time.
The thing that was weird about the movie is in the fight with the "nightmares" it feel likes they tried to do a cute "generic" Magical Girl part ( with the transformation and stuff ) but in the Madoka's theme so that felt weird but i still liked it great to watch.
 
Dec 10, 2013 8:44 AM
DatLookTho

Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7283
RaurosFalls said:
What happened? Why would HomuHomu do something like that? If I barely understood the ending before, I can't even come close to comprehending what happened here. HomuHomu would never hurt Madoka... And yet...



Simply put, Homura loved Madoka and wanted to "save" her. To her, Madokami shouldn't exist. Remember how in the movie she says that at some point she started to wonder if her memories of Madoka were real? That she hadn't made them up? If Madoka is in front of her, she knows Madoka to be real. If she's Madokami and she hasn't seen her in ages and no one but Homura knows of her existence, it makes her wonder if Madoka was real to begin with.

In essence, Homura thinks she's saved Madoka from her fate, not that she's hurt her.
 
Dec 10, 2013 10:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 815
If you had the ability to travel back in time and save Jesus from crucifixion by bringing him to a foreign land (probably an island) so far away and keep him there against his will; will you do it? This question has some correlations philosophically to the situation Homura had when she was faced with the decision to rebel against Madoka's wishes.

If you say:

- YES - In a way you sympathize with Homura's intentions of saving the one most important person to her but in exchange; the damnation of humanity by preventing everyone's redemption.

- NO - You accept that people are destined to fulfill their purpose of existence regardless how painful or difficult it will be. Sacrifice requires strength not solely for the ONE but for those who will bear witness to it.
"Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums.

USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST:
SSL443 - Dr4kon
To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done.
Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed.
 
Dec 10, 2013 10:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 55
sarroush said:
RaurosFalls said:
What happened? Why would HomuHomu do something like that? If I barely understood the ending before, I can't even come close to comprehending what happened here. HomuHomu would never hurt Madoka... And yet...



Simply put, Homura loved Madoka and wanted to "save" her. To her, Madokami shouldn't exist. Remember how in the movie she says that at some point she started to wonder if her memories of Madoka were real? That she hadn't made them up? If Madoka is in front of her, she knows Madoka to be real. If she's Madokami and she hasn't seen her in ages and no one but Homura knows of her existence, it makes her wonder if Madoka was real to begin with.

In essence, Homura thinks she's saved Madoka from her fate, not that she's hurt her.


Madoka also states in that exchange that she would never go somewhere so far that she could never see her friends again. Homura knows this is the real madoka and confirms this to be her true feelings. Homura says she should have never let madoka sacrifice herself. So she does the best she can to bring madoka a happy, normal life.

As another motive, she is also preventing the incubators from ever being able to get at madoka again.
 
Dec 10, 2013 11:41 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Janethan23 said:
If you had the ability to travel back in time and save Jesus from crucifixion by bringing him to a foreign land (probably an island) so far away and keep him there against his will; will you do it? This question has some correlations philosophically to the situation Homura had when she was faced with the decision to rebel against Madoka's wishes.

If you say:

- YES - In a way you sympathize with Homura's intentions of saving the one most important person to her but in exchange; the damnation of humanity by preventing everyone's redemption.

- NO - You accept that people are destined to fulfill their purpose of existence regardless how painful or difficult it will be. Sacrifice requires strength not solely for the ONE but for those who will bear witness to it.


The big difference with Homura is it's stated she only took a part of the Law of Cycles, the parts with Madoka before she became a concept. Witches don't seem to exist in the new world, so the Law of Cycles still allows girl's to pass on. It's as if she saved Jesus from death but also redeemed all of humanity. The single biggest problem is that she did it against Madoka's will.
 
Dec 10, 2013 11:47 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 699
epicscreator said:
vampko said:
I, personally, thought the TV series' end was moreso a deus ex. There are many hints throughout the whole series that Homura's not quite a normal Magical Girl.


I don't see how the TV series ending was a deus ex. Madoka had the whole show to think about her wish, and it was implied fairly early on, iirc, that she could possibly wish for just about anything. It's finally explained in episode 11 by Kyubey that all the timelines Homura went through created parallel universes centered on Madoka, and all that combined karma manifested as her potential. Don't see how that's a deus ex.

In the movie, there was not even a single hint that Homura was capable of becoming Homucifer. That is a desu ex, an asspull. Sure, you could amount it to Homura's wish, but thing is, it's never explicitly said in the movie which can lead to people like me seeing it as contrived and out of nowhere, and until it's explained, I'll keep seeing it as such.

Also, what 'hints' are there that Homura isn't a normal magical girl in the show?

To you it may have felt like a natural progression. But to me, while I was grateful for an ending that wasn't too terribly depressing (I watch J-horror, so my bar for what is "tragic" is rather high), it felt like too much of a contrast from the rest of the show. Yeah, Madoka was granted the ability to essentially do whatever because she had so much magic power, but it still felt a bit too out there compared to the rest of the show. The demons (wraiths/whatever) all of a sudden appearing to take over the role of witches was kinda out there too. There really wasn't much of any explanation as to what they even were (which we still don't really know). Suddenly now, the world is full of magic girls that have to pay such a weaker price than before. Compared to possibly turning into that which you've been fighting against, the prospect of "dying" if you lose yourself/are poor at collecting whatever they call it now that demons are in, is a walk in the park. Homura still had it pretty crappy, being the only being who knew that Madoka existed, and Madoka was stuck watching over everyone but being unable to interact with them, Kyouko had no Sayaka, but seemed to be handling things decently. And Mami was full and well and alive again. Which really contradicted with the fact that the rest of history wasn't screwed with because of Madoka's wish (though I guess i'ts plausible we just haven't been shown those repercussions yet since the movie took place inside Homura basically). Those are just some of the reasons the ending just felt deus ex'y to me.

Again, it's noted that I didnt' dislike it. I just can see how others would have found it a "suspension of disbelief" sort of thing.

As for Homura, her wish's power was crazy. She looped time continuously and had some control over time itself. She could shape the world how she wanted to. Kyubey was deinitely confused by her. And if you say it's solely because of how she was from a different timeline, well why would her power-- if it were actually 'weak' -- be enough to evade the detection of the incubators? Remember that Kyubey is acting on the behalf of an entire race, not just itself. Just like how Madoka's wish evaded their ability to keep an eye on the situation, Homura's also screwed with the incubators.

Again, remember that the Incubators are experimenting with emotions. Something they really have no clue about, nor understand in the slightest. How hard could it be for them to have unknowingly left in some sort of program that Homura accessed using her twisted "love"?

Yeah, the movie doesn't expressly explain it. Well, the TV series didn't explain a lot. And pretty much every Japanese piece of media ever fails to explain things. That's generally how they tell stories. The point is for the viewer to draw their own conclusions. That's part of the lure to Japanese entertainment media (for me at least). You are left with questions, and hints to the answer, but the answer isn't given flat out to you.

Though, the next season could help to explain things. If they make one anyway. I really really hope they do...
 
Dec 10, 2013 12:55 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 107
Tachikoma1701 said:


Well, I didn't asked about 3 movie, I asked about quote from TV series that could confirm what you said about Homura's development in the movie. So where are those quotes, telling us that Homura was unhappy about her new role and about Madoka's becoming a goddess? Yes, she was crying at first, because she thought that Madoka's fate was worse than death, and she wasn't happy that she was separated from Madoka, but in the end she accepted her new role and was happy about it - she even cracked a smile when she was talking to Madoka's family and she smiled, in after the credits scene, when she heard Madoka's voice. And off course, in the end of the series, Akemi was fighting to commemorate Madoka's memory - that was final messege of the show: "Don't forget. Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember her, you are not alone." And that was the point that TV show was making: yes, world can be cruel and uncaring place, where tragedy and sorrow happen all the time, but as long as you have someone who is caring for you - even if this is only memory of someone- as long, life is worth living. Nice message. Shame that now it's flushed down the toilet with the rest of TV series... You know, since now love can apparently turn you into "the devil". Not happy about this and about TV series being practically rebooted - universe keeps getting rewritten is ridiculous. How can I be emotionally invested in story and characters, when they don't really matter since they will be rewritten in the end? All characters arc and decisions are now, essentially meaningless.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but in flower field scene, Madoka didn't remembered events that lead to her to making her wish? And best friends becoming enemies - it's quite cliche...


Here's my interpretation and evidence of why Homura was 'not happy' until the after credits scene in the TV series:

Death of Sayaka - Homura's consciousness merges with the existing Homura of the new time line. She sees the ribbon in her hands, then cries for Madoka. To me, this is Homura mourning the 'passing' of Madoka, except instead of the end of life it's the end of her existence. To Homura, Madoka is 'dead' in this world.

Meeting with Kaname Family - At this time Homura probably has made peace with the fact that Madoka's 'gone' from this world. However, the fact that Madoka's family shows some trace of Madoka's existence reaffirms to Homura Madoka's existence, which makes her happy. However, that happiness is fleeting, just like meeting a friend and reminiscing about a once dead loved one. However, at the end of the scene, when Homura is sitting with Madoka's mom, Homura looks into the sky, and her expression changes to that showing slight sadness (I checked both the movie and blu-ray versions, and it's there, although subtle).

QB + Wraith scene - This is IMO the most important indicator of Homura's state of 'happiness'. When she jumps down she describes the world that she's protecting, the words she uses to describe it are roughly the same as in the 3rd timeline, when she tells Madoka they should turn into witches and destroy this rotten world. Of course, she probably doesn't feel as strongly about it now, considering Madoka brought hope to all magical girls, however, I doubt she has any love for the world. She protects it only because the world is important to Madoka. It is her duty to keep fighting, as her memories of Madoka are the strongest proof that Madoka once existed somewhere in the world. If Homura stops fighting and dies, Madoka's existence will be forever gone. Notice she's fighting alone, when earlier she was with Mami and Kyoko. This indicates either Mami and Kyoko have died (which would only add to her grief) or that she left them to be alone. She also does not have any new companions even though she has no reason not to fight alongside others. In fact she confides in QB of all people. To me, this means that nothing in the world can bring Homura happiness, as she has no love for it. Finally, there's the shot of her face as she's jumping down. To me, that doesn't look like the face of someone who's happy. Homura has been happy a couple times in the series and her expression always shows it. This seems to be the same face she makes when she's resetting the timeline (end of timeline 4, or when she's about to face Walpurgis Night.

After credits scene - Homura seems to be on the edge of despair from fighting for so long. Her wings are made up of the same material as the Witch corruption, and she hears Madoka's voice. This really shows that she's at the end, but she finally smiles because she realizes that she can meet Madoka again. I feel this is the moment she's been waiting for the entire time, and the only moment she's truly beginning to feel happy.

Movie continuity/TV continuity: I believe it was Gen or Shinbo that said the movies follow a different continuity, and that you can treat the tv series and movies as separate works. The original TV series ending was left ambiguously so I think both happy and unhappy( until the end) interpretations are both valid, since there's enough evidence for both, and which one it is really is based on your personal experiences. However, for the movie continuity Gen decided to take the unhappy interpretation and branch off of that.
Modified by Esclair, Dec 10, 2013 5:35 PM
 
Dec 10, 2013 2:15 PM
Hug Addict <3

Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 28326
this movie's climbing the ratings frighteningly fast by the day :o
already surpassed the 2nd one, top 25 atm

A cuddle a day keeps the pouting away~
"Holding hands is just the first step to getting pregnant"
 
Dec 10, 2013 2:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 406
vampko said:
epicscreator said:
vampko said:
I, personally, thought the TV series' end was moreso a deus ex. There are many hints throughout the whole series that Homura's not quite a normal Magical Girl.


I don't see how the TV series ending was a deus ex. Madoka had the whole show to think about her wish, and it was implied fairly early on, iirc, that she could possibly wish for just about anything. It's finally explained in episode 11 by Kyubey that all the timelines Homura went through created parallel universes centered on Madoka, and all that combined karma manifested as her potential. Don't see how that's a deus ex.

In the movie, there was not even a single hint that Homura was capable of becoming Homucifer. That is a desu ex, an asspull. Sure, you could amount it to Homura's wish, but thing is, it's never explicitly said in the movie which can lead to people like me seeing it as contrived and out of nowhere, and until it's explained, I'll keep seeing it as such.

Also, what 'hints' are there that Homura isn't a normal magical girl in the show?

To you it may have felt like a natural progression. But to me, while I was grateful for an ending that wasn't too terribly depressing (I watch J-horror, so my bar for what is "tragic" is rather high), it felt like too much of a contrast from the rest of the show. Yeah, Madoka was granted the ability to essentially do whatever because she had so much magic power, but it still felt a bit too out there compared to the rest of the show. The demons (wraiths/whatever) all of a sudden appearing to take over the role of witches was kinda out there too. There really wasn't much of any explanation as to what they even were (which we still don't really know). Suddenly now, the world is full of magic girls that have to pay such a weaker price than before. Compared to possibly turning into that which you've been fighting against, the prospect of "dying" if you lose yourself/are poor at collecting whatever they call it now that demons are in, is a walk in the park. Homura still had it pretty crappy, being the only being who knew that Madoka existed, and Madoka was stuck watching over everyone but being unable to interact with them, Kyouko had no Sayaka, but seemed to be handling things decently. And Mami was full and well and alive again. Which really contradicted with the fact that the rest of history wasn't screwed with because of Madoka's wish (though I guess i'ts plausible we just haven't been shown those repercussions yet since the movie took place inside Homura basically). Those are just some of the reasons the ending just felt deus ex'y to me.

Again, it's noted that I didnt' dislike it. I just can see how others would have found it a "suspension of disbelief" sort of thing.

As for Homura, her wish's power was crazy. She looped time continuously and had some control over time itself. She could shape the world how she wanted to. Kyubey was deinitely confused by her. And if you say it's solely because of how she was from a different timeline, well why would her power-- if it were actually 'weak' -- be enough to evade the detection of the incubators? Remember that Kyubey is acting on the behalf of an entire race, not just itself. Just like how Madoka's wish evaded their ability to keep an eye on the situation, Homura's also screwed with the incubators.

Again, remember that the Incubators are experimenting with emotions. Something they really have no clue about, nor understand in the slightest. How hard could it be for them to have unknowingly left in some sort of program that Homura accessed using her twisted "love"?

Yeah, the movie doesn't expressly explain it. Well, the TV series didn't explain a lot. And pretty much every Japanese piece of media ever fails to explain things. That's generally how they tell stories. The point is for the viewer to draw their own conclusions. That's part of the lure to Japanese entertainment media (for me at least). You are left with questions, and hints to the answer, but the answer isn't given flat out to you.

Though, the next season could help to explain things. If they make one anyway. I really really hope they do...


I think the ending is supposed to contrast with the dark tone (which is arguably not even that dark to begin with) the rest of the show has, seeing as how it reconstructs the previously deconstructed world, but, eh, opinions, opinions.

The thing about the demons appearing though, makes sense to me. It's not as if the world is completely free of despair. There's an empty void the new universe has to feel in; that is, with the witches gone, some other force has to replace them. Otherwise how else are the incubators going to acquire energy to save the universe?

As for the other things you said, I don't agree with them, but I'll just leave it at that. I can't fault you for feeling something I don't. XD
Modified by epicscreator, Dec 10, 2013 2:39 PM
 
Dec 10, 2013 2:37 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 815
FierceAlchemist said:
Janethan23 said:
If you had the ability to travel back in time and save Jesus from crucifixion by bringing him to a foreign land (probably an island) so far away and keep him there against his will; will you do it? This question has some correlations philosophically to the situation Homura had when she was faced with the decision to rebel against Madoka's wishes.

If you say:

- YES - In a way you sympathize with Homura's intentions of saving the one most important person to her but in exchange; the damnation of humanity by preventing everyone's redemption.

- NO - You accept that people are destined to fulfill their purpose of existence regardless how painful or difficult it will be. Sacrifice requires strength not solely for the ONE but for those who will bear witness to it.


The big difference with Homura is it's stated she only took a part of the Law of Cycles, the parts with Madoka before she became a concept. Witches don't seem to exist in the new world, so the Law of Cycles still allows girl's to pass on. It's as if she saved Jesus from death but also redeemed all of humanity. The single biggest problem is that she did it against Madoka's will.


That's true but the thing is that when events in history are altered there is a somewhat equal amount of events that will balance it (unexpected tragedies). I've watched STEINS GATE http://myanimelist.net/anime/9253/Steins;Gate and altering events in time may also come with its price. Jesus may have been saved from death and lived a long life peacefully but he will never fulfill his destiny while people around the world continued to commit sins.
Modified by Janethan23, Dec 10, 2013 2:44 PM
"Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums.

USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST:
SSL443 - Dr4kon
To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done.
Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed.
 
Dec 10, 2013 2:55 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Janethan23 said:
FierceAlchemist said:
Janethan23 said:
If you had the ability to travel back in time and save Jesus from crucifixion by bringing him to a foreign land (probably an island) so far away and keep him there against his will; will you do it? This question has some correlations philosophically to the situation Homura had when she was faced with the decision to rebel against Madoka's wishes.

If you say:

- YES - In a way you sympathize with Homura's intentions of saving the one most important person to her but in exchange; the damnation of humanity by preventing everyone's redemption.

- NO - You accept that people are destined to fulfill their purpose of existence regardless how painful or difficult it will be. Sacrifice requires strength not solely for the ONE but for those who will bear witness to it.


The big difference with Homura is it's stated she only took a part of the Law of Cycles, the parts with Madoka before she became a concept. Witches don't seem to exist in the new world, so the Law of Cycles still allows girl's to pass on. It's as if she saved Jesus from death but also redeemed all of humanity. The single biggest problem is that she did it against Madoka's will.


That's true but the thing is that when events in history are altered there is a somewhat equal amount of events that will balance it (unexpected tragedies). I've watched STEINS GATE http://myanimelist.net/anime/9253/Steins;Gate and altering events in time may also come with its price. Jesus may have been saved from death and lived a long life peacefully but he will never fulfill his destiny while people around the world continued to commit sins.


I love Steins;Gate :) The Madoka universe has always run on the idea of balance, hope equaling despair, and repercussions to everyone's wishes. Homura's universe may be this paradise right now, but I gotta believe that something's gonna fall apart. Either the Law of Cycles doesn't work exactly how it did before or the stability of the world is tied to Homura's mental state. There has to be something that goes wrong, or else I don't see much point in rebelling when the world is so close to perfect.
 
Dec 10, 2013 3:52 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
HaXXspetten said:
this movie's climbing the ratings frighteningly fast by the day :o
already surpassed the 2nd one, top 25 atm

hype inflation.. it doesn't belong there. not even close
 
Dec 10, 2013 4:08 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 112
vampko said:

As for Homura, her wish's power was crazy. She looped time continuously and had some control over time itself. She could shape the world how she wanted to.


this is only half true. she does not have the power to shape the world. if anything, the first season demonstrated that no matter how many times she goes back, she has absolutely no power to change people's fate, which is why her decision at the end of Rebellion was stupid.

she has not accomplished her goal, and she never will. only Madoka can change the world by sacrificing herself. even then, some things remain the same.
 
Dec 10, 2013 4:09 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1205
The real question is: what the hell do we call the new Homura?

Akuma Homura?
Homurakuma?
Homucifer?

I think I like the second one the best, as it follows the same principle as Madokami.
 
Top
Pages (20) « First ... « 4 5 [6] 7 8 » ... Last »