| Fabrizzo are you male? You seem to be a bit angry for the uh, wrong reasons. I'm not sure that you belong in this club- Please re-read the description of the club. This really is meant to be a female community and guys ARE welcome, but if you're just here to say "YEAH WELL SEXISM GOES BOTH WAYS SO THERE", then I suggest you find another club. Yes, sexism goes both ways. This club is about being a safe haven for the females of MAL, however. We don't really want angry debates and honestly, I want a place where women can kinda rant and vent a bit. If you want to talk about misandry you can just go to the regular MAL forums. |
AmberlehDec 16, 2013 8:13 PM
| I have to be honest. I have very little inclination to listen to you due to your absurdly poor typing. If you go back and edit your posts so that they follow proper English rules and not internetspeak, I will re-consider what you have said. But as it is, they are far too painful for me to read. Oh, and for the record- No one is stopping you from making your OWN club. =) |
sk1tty said: Lol, it's unbelievable that someone would join a club for feminists to complain about how much they hate women. HAHAHAHAHAH I know right? My elite generals (the other officers) and myself were laughing about that. We're not sure if he was trolling or what, but I'm sort of sad that he left. We were going to have some fun with him. =3 |
| Well, I don't know about Shaman King but I think our friend fabrizzo might have point hidden behind all those spelling mistakes. Females being unnecessarily violent and abusive towards male characters makes cringe too. Like violent tsunderes. His first post didn't strike me as particularly angry-sounding either. All in all I don't see how you came to the conclusion he hates women. Though he does seem to be confused about what feminism is. He also made a club: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=40759 I also wish to see an end to the sexist dresscodes for schools in anime-no more boys in full long blacks while girls are sporting miniskirts.From now on if the girls are in miniskirts the boys should be in shorts,and not the long baggy kind,the smart and short kind.No more girls in bloomers for PE if boys arent in an equivalent of it-speedos. That's...nice? I don't know if he's serious or what. |
EarwenDec 21, 2013 9:27 AM
| Oh, fuck you. |
fabrizzo said: so ur purpose was to make me submit feebly to ur feminist masters?is this ur game?All ur so called emphaty towards me is what i wrote is a lie,like a good cop bad cop thing?GO TO DAMNED HELL THEN Oh no!! our cover has been blown. I'm sorry my feminist masters. I have failed you. |
| For what it's worth, and I imagine not much, I genuinely meant what I said in my first post. And If you hadn't decided to act like an anti-feminist fuckbag I'd still be defending you. Now I'm just laughing at you instead. |
fabrizzo said: TO HELL WITH LYING FEMINISTS,FOREVER AND EVER!!! http://puu.sh/5Zby6.jpg |
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| Earwen I've always liked you. <3 <3 UnderminE said: fabrizzo said: TO HELL WITH LYING FEMINISTS,FOREVER AND EVER!!! http://puu.sh/5Zby6.jpg I'm adding this to the club pictures. For the record, this conversation made me laugh. Oh, and our little friend there is perma-banned. |
AmberlehDec 26, 2013 5:11 PM
Amberleh said: For the record, this conversation made me laugh. Oh, and our little friend there is perma-banned. Too bad the funniest parts happened in my PM box. I tried my best to ignore his insults and actually reply to him but he seems to be living in his own little world. He kept trying to convince me to leave this club and join his. Refusing somehow made me a hypocrite :) I almost feel bad for him. I don't think he is trolling, at least not intentionally. He genuinely believes that all of the anime fanbase except himself "relishes in in vice rather than beauty" and he is the only "pure" left. Also we are "rapists and enjoy being raped" because most (read: several) of our members like ecchi (I personally completely blame Undermine and her profile picture). Yet he also ended our conservation by wishing that we all get raped. For we are all sickasses. Keep in mind this is all only from his last message. |
EarwenDec 27, 2013 4:45 AM
| I'm sorry guys but I am actually just laughing at this whole thing, I mean honestly how disillusioned can one person be? I mean literally every feminist blog or club always gets these random dudes coming in trying to persuade us all into believing that we are actually trying to take over the world and only want to have slave boys and I laugh every time because they are so afraid of not being in charge that they spend hours on the internet trying to fight it by name calling. Also Earwen and Amberleh you guys are so awesome for actually trying to give him a shot like it's actually really impressive. I mean obviously it didn't work out but it's still awesome that you guys tried. |
| I encourage laughter. Seriously. Too many modern feminists get ANGRY at everything. It's unhealthy and unproductive. I'd rather just laugh it all off- Because we all know the truth. We all know he and many others don't know what they're talking about, so why get angry about it? He clearly isn't going to change his views, so we might as well draw enjoyment from his ignorance, if that makes sense. Taphin, you are sweet, but really Earwen, bless her wonderfully patient soul, was the one trying to understand him while I was just politely telling him to go away. His initial post had merit, but I was encouraging him to leave because it seemed clear to me based on his posts here and posts of his elsewhere that my friends linked to me that he had no interest in OUR cause. He wanted us to acknowledge and rally behind HIS cause, but he showed no interest in supporting us. He just wanted to make sure we agreed with him, and his wording seemed demanding, and that's what tipped me off. |
| Looking over this list so far in the OP is interesting. I came to tolerate the very problematic side of Death Note mostly because of how amazing the story itself was to me at the time, and I still consider it among my favorite manga and anime (although, looking back now, I do question the past praise I've given it). On the other hand, I've openly hated SAO, Dance in the Vampire Bund and Blood Lad because of it's myriad of issues that I've already known beforehand, unlike DN. Fate/Zero is also a bit of an eye-opener, considering how much I loved Madoka Magica. I guess it comes down to experience, as my feminist beliefs never really developed until recently, but at the least, it's made me a better anime fan and person. Also, Vampire Knight I saw coming a mile away. :P (Also, nice meeting you all! New to the club and stuff. c:) |
| Hi, guys. Newbie. Love the idea of this club! Now I'm going to be that annoying newbie who makes a criticism first post, lol. Amberleh said: Jody- You need to realize that this is, essentially, a girls' club. I doubt most of us have even SEEN Shigurui, so of course we wouldn't add it to the list because we have all only heard of it in name... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is- I don't have a problem adding it, but don't be shocked that it isn't on there. It is not something most girls are going to pick up. I'm a little worried by this. I understand targeting this club to women, and I salute that, but in this post it sounds like you're excluding certain women who don't share your tastes, or the tastes you seem to have determined "most" women to have. Portraying us as a monolithic body itself isn't empowering, and in fact, I know megatons of female anime fans who love action anime (shounen). The reason many people, including men, haven't seen Shigurui is owing to the fact that it's niche. It's targeted towards older audiences, and it can be quite cryptic, impenetrable, and aimless at points. I loved it, but I was quite aware that the portrayal of women was sexist. There are few women in the show, and all of them are victims or reliant upon a man, if I recall correctly. That leads me to the point that I think in general, we should discuss elements of anime as sexist or empowering rather than entire shows since there are so few like Seirei no Moribito and Claymore. We're more likely to see mixed elements in anime. For example, I thought of Witchblade and in the next moment dismissed it because of the excessive fanservice, what, with Masane's near naked, jiggling breasts, butt, and sword-licking every episode, every transform, lol. But I could certainly see why someone would choose that as an example of an female-empowering show because as a character, Masane is quite powerful, and fully in control of her own destiny. She saves her male friend multiple times, and she's a mother. I loved her. She also approaches a man for a relationship first, rather than the reverse. |
| Welcome to the club, new_user! I also don't think that we should exclude any potential additions because of what the fan base might be. If a title is so obscure that no one can vouch for it (or give a solid enough recommendation for it whether because it's been too long since they've seen it or something), then I can understand, but I don't think we should make decisions based on genre or demographic or some people will feel marginalized. new_user said: That leads me to the point that I think in general, we should discuss elements of anime as sexist or empowering rather than entire shows since there are so few like Seirei no Moribito and Claymore. We're more likely to see mixed elements in anime. I agree with this, though deciding how much fanservice is too much fanservice (or how much sexism is too much sexism) will prolong a lot of debates. Maybe we could have two lists though? The Relations for the "feminist/more-feminist-friendly" series, and have a thread where we can put a list with "less feminist friendly but still worth checking out" titles on it for ones that might be too fanservicey, etc. I read the last couple pages and I agree with Earwen--fabrizzo's post seemed a little misguided (...misandry? but that's a topic to discuss at another time/place...) but I didn't think that he came as off woman-hating. And I would also be in favor of adding shows that depict female characters as belligerent or irrationally violent. |
| Oh, wow. I just read through that angry rant. Anyway, I still really want Shaman King to be on the list. I finished it a few weeks ago, and it's not only sexist, but pretty damn racist, too. It's not hateful, but I can't believe how ignorant the writing is. |
| I'm fine with adding all of that stuff honestly. And I apologize for any concern, new_user. I knew Jody from another club and I have had problems with people from that other club coming here and thinking of this as an extension of that club, and I don't want it to be treated as such. That fellow has since been banned from this club for saying that Kodomo no Jikan was a decent series and that he thinks there is something wrong with people who take moral issue with it. For reference: Kodomo no Jikan is a well known lolicon series that actually does feature sex between a 10 year old and an adult man. It also just sexualizes the hell out of underage girls. But I see your point in regards to not excluding shows just because of the target audience, and I have no problem adding shows that fit other demographics. However I do think it's pointless to add most harems because, you know, harems. I think a few of the more popular ones should be added, but it would be a waste to add every single harem ever. But Clannad, Bakenmono, Zero no Tsukamia, and a couple others of the super popular ones should be included. |
| @Amberleh: No problem, and thanks for listening. I can't stand harem, along with lolicon or"'moe," for obvious reasons, but I have seen girls watch and recommend harems, so maybe that's something we can discuss, what attracts girls to these shows? I think it's partly that they're the only shows that address relationships. I think until recently animation studios did not produce much shoujo, unlike manga, because they assumed men were their target audience, but I could be wrong. It would be interesting if someone investigated, percent of anime that is shoujo in 1998 vs. 2012 or something like that. Didn't shoujo anime used to be strictly magical girls? Sorry you've had some trouble with members! It takes a lot of work to maintain a safe environment, so I appreciate it! Kodomo no Jikan sounds disgusting. @Emmrys: Thanks for the welcome! Fabrizzio sounds like he's drunk the sexist kool-aid. Maybe we shouldn't humor sexism, but in case someone was nodding along with him, I will just speak to his points (post #50) about anime rather than his vitriol against feminists (including men). I think he was talking about shotacon at one point, and that is indeed disgusting, but pedophilia's pedophilia. It's not gender-specific, as we know from teacher arrests. Regarding women crushing men with their breasts, etc., he doesn't seem to realize that female-domination -and big breasts- is a male fantasy, or else comic relief where female domination is seen as a joke. Sexualization of females in media, rather than males in "cute shorts," is also a result of patriarchy because presumably men have more to offer than their bodies. The seductress and female sexuality as a threat is a well-known sexist trope. I don't know why boys are portrayed as "lewd." Presumably some part of their male audience can relate, and male sexuality has never been policed as strictly as female sexuality. Josei with sexual humor has a small audience, in comparison. "Magical boys" are in shounen (with a different color palette than, say, CCSakura, because sexism), shows that are expected to have universal appeal, whereas female-oriented shows are just for girls, and naturally there's no focus on fashion for magical boys. This is partly because the company cannot sell jewelry or makeup (think Sailor Moon) to boys, only figurines, so they have no vested interest in magical lockets, etc., but it sort of highlights the larger societal issue that women are encouraged to value themselves based on image or "beauty" from a young age. I don't know about the abusive women. I haven't seen them that often. Anyone else? |
new_userJan 2, 2014 1:49 PM
| I don't think bakemonogatari is sexist. In fact it's one of the few harem series that has female characters with actual personality. |
| I don't want to defend Kodomo no Jikan but it does NOT feature sex between a ten year old and her teacher. If I recall correctly the teacher isn't even interested in the girl. At least not in the TV series. ...Yes I watched it. We do not talk about that. |
Earwen said: I don't want to defend Kodomo no Jikan but it does NOT feature sex between a ten year old and her teacher. If I recall correctly the teacher isn't even interested in the girl. At least not in the TV series. ...Yes I watched it. We do not talk about that. WARNING: NOT. SAFE. FOR. WORK. OR ANY HUMAN, REALLY. http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kodomo-no-Jikan/093?id=168852 *Cough* |
Amberleh said: Earwen said: I don't want to defend Kodomo no Jikan but it does NOT feature sex between a ten year old and her teacher. If I recall correctly the teacher isn't even interested in the girl. At least not in the TV series. ...Yes I watched it. We do not talk about that. WARNING: NOT. SAFE. FOR. WORK. OR ANY HUMAN, REALLY. http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kodomo-no-Jikan/093?id=168852 *Cough* I uh as I understand is that Kokonoe(?) is actually an adult in the end and just looks like a 10 year old.Which isn't much better but... At least the anime isn't as bad as most people think it is. It has some good moments, so I can understand people liking it. |
Earwen said: Amberleh said: Earwen said: I don't want to defend Kodomo no Jikan but it does NOT feature sex between a ten year old and her teacher. If I recall correctly the teacher isn't even interested in the girl. At least not in the TV series. ...Yes I watched it. We do not talk about that. WARNING: NOT. SAFE. FOR. WORK. OR ANY HUMAN, REALLY. http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kodomo-no-Jikan/093?id=168852 *Cough* I uh as I understand is that Kokonoe(?) is actually an adult in the end and just looks like a 10 year old.Which isn't much better but... At least the anime isn't as bad as most people think it is. It has some good moments, so I can understand people liking it. Even if that is the case, it's only to get around legality issues. You're still supposed to think of her as 10. |
Amberleh said: Even if that is the case, it's only to get around legality issues. You're still supposed to think of her as 10. I won't deny that. |
cipheron said: I'll nominate Diabolik Lovers here since it gets a really bad rap from female reviewers for being sexist / loosely-disguised "vamipre" gang-rape-fantasy fiction where the girl has almost no volition and barely defends herself and resigns to her fate. notbably, it's actually classed as a Shoujo anime on MAL. Shows like Diabolik Lovers go without saying, but it does deserve a mention among the worst of anime. |
cipheron said: I'd be in favor of adding DL for that reason too. Reverse harems and otome games are becoming more and more blatantly misogynistic and sexist, and it's appalling that they were approved and marketed (TO WOMEN!). I've even seen girls who are fans of it defending it and saying that it's NOT misogynistic because the boys are vampires. That excuses it. If they were humans, "it'd be a different story". The main reason I thought it notable was that it's labelled "shoujo" on MAL, so people searching by genre were more likely to see it. -____________________________- Anyway rant over, with the latest three to come out--Amnesia, Brother's Conflict, and DL--, the trend is a little sickening. BroCon is admitedly milder, but still problematic. I think Amnesia should be added as well as DL though--one of the guys locks the heroine in a cage "to protect her." And she doesn't even have a name FFS. edit: Nevermind Amnesia is already there. |
| Well at least in the end of Diabolik Lovers the guys didn't reform with the power love. At best they had a minor case of Lima Syndrome. Main girl was pretty fucking afraid of them and did try to defend herself but she's too weak. The guys are terrible people and they are shown as terrible people. The show doesn't really try to justify what they did and it isn't portrayed as romantic. Sexy, maybe. I suppose some people are into that. At least that's how I see it. I don't think DL is misogynistic, just terrible. But I don't care if it gets added to the list. Also I really think Shoujo Sect should be removed. Getting recommended to the wrong people doesn't make it misogynistic. Btw Is the list even updated? |
| I'm surprised that they're targeting kids with BDSM-themed shows now, but hey, if they can survive the rest of shoujo... I've always thought much of shoujo is sexist, honestly, with all the disdainful male characters, coercion or blackmail, and manhandling -that's always bothered me the most, the popular wrist grab. They remind me of 80s bodice rippers with the pushy men and how the girls simply must be saying "no." That is unhealthy on two fronts: a) perpetuating that women can't enjoy sexuality or they're sluts and b) portraying rape as the only sort of sex or normalizing rape, which leads to the "reasoning," "Hey, if it's the only way to have sex," or "Everyone does it..." Now that I think about it, it's that trope in ecchi or seinen that's the problem. If shoujo creators are going to acknowledge that a lot of viewers like D/S, then I think they need to portray it in a healthy fashion, i.e. consensual, communicative, considerate and limited, in a healthy relationship rather than trying to mix fantasy (pornography) and romance, but it's still a lot of pressure on the creators. They should just stick to a josei audience, lol. |
| Added Diabolik Lovers, the one episode of it I saw made me feel... dirty... |
muffinanime said: I would like to nominate Cat Shit One for its slaughtering of the women camels. Its director Kazuya Sasahara has stated on multiple occasions that every camel in cat shit one is a woman. I don't understand how they can get away with doing things like this , it's disgusting! We need to send the right message for growing preteen girls. We are NOT sand bags that can be thrown aside like last nights dinner! I.. I am not sure if you are trolling or not, but I am vaguely intrigued by this anime which I have only just now heard of. |
| I don't get where your coming from with SAO. It features a strong, independent, and powerful female lead. More so than the male lead as far as I've seen. When I say this I talk about the first arc, the second one was so bad I can't take any part of it seriously. I also don't see how vampire knight is sexist, it just focuses on the male leads because that's who viewers are supposed to like. Almost all shoujo anime is like that, it's the same with shounen romance anime. Why would you put a lot of effort into making a character that is not the main point? Also, by creating a weak or flawed lead, you can draw on the love interests best points. It's a double edged sword, so it can hardly be considered sexist. |
shinigamihana216Jan 16, 2014 4:30 AM
Amberleh said: muffinanime said: I would like to nominate Cat Shit One for its slaughtering of the women camels. Its director Kazuya Sasahara has stated on multiple occasions that every camel in cat shit one is a woman. I don't understand how they can get away with doing things like this , it's disgusting! We need to send the right message for growing preteen girls. We are NOT sand bags that can be thrown aside like last nights dinner! I.. I am not sure if you are trolling or not, but I am vaguely intrigued by this anime which I have only just now heard of. Watch it, Amber! It's got wabbit soldiers! |
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Amberleh said: muffinanime said: I would like to nominate Cat Shit One for its slaughtering of the women camels. Its director Kazuya Sasahara has stated on multiple occasions that every camel in cat shit one is a woman. I don't understand how they can get away with doing things like this , it's disgusting! We need to send the right message for growing preteen girls. We are NOT sand bags that can be thrown aside like last nights dinner! I.. I am not sure if you are trolling or not, but I am vaguely intrigued by this anime which I have only just now heard of. Misinformed. The camels are all male-voiced and -garbed and Middle-eastern. It's racist and war-glorifying, but it's not sexist. |
shinigamihana216 said: I don't get where your coming from with SAO. It features a strong, independent, and powerful female lead. More so than the male lead as far as I've seen. When I say this I talk about the first arc, the second one was so bad I can't take any part of it seriously. I also don't see how vampire knight is sexist, it just focuses on the male leads because that's who viewers are supposed to like. Almost all shoujo anime is like that, it's the same with shounen romance anime. Why would you put a lot of effort into making a character that is not the main point? Also, by creating a weak or flawed lead, you can draw on the love interests best points. It's a double edged sword, so it can hardly be considered sexist. Oh dear. Oooooohhh dear. You have been very, very brainwashed. Look, I get that SAO is one of your favorite series, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect series. The problem with Asuna was that she STARTED OUT as strong and independent, but pretty early on her entire character changed and she became a perfect little housewife. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT HOUSEWIFE CHARACTERS ARE AUTOMATICALLY SEXIST OR THAT BECOMING ONE IS SEXIST. Mirajane Strauss is on our relations and is a prime example of a character who has a housewife demeanor, but is still very strong both emotionally and physically and copes with the loss of her sister in her own way. Asuna's change was so drastic however. She became another character entirely and the situation did not call for such a dramatic change, unlike the case with Mirajane. There was at least one occassion where Kirito fought for her, as though she were an object. And don't EVEN get me started on the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY HAREM ELEMENTS. SAO needs a harem tag, because that's what it is. A harem. And no, I'm not going to just discount the second half. The second half featured attempted rape and tentacle rape both for the sake of FAN SERVICE. Hello. That's not okay. I'm not even adding the FT manga to relations because it features that in later chapters (though it isn't featuring it as attempted rape, just torture, but torture as fan service isn't okay.) There's also the fact that every female who gets any real screentime save for like, one, falls in love with Kirito. They even say that his little sister was actually his cousin JUST SO THAT SHE CAN FALL IN LOVE WITH KIRITO. Ummm, this is not okay. Sorry, but SAO is really sexist, and if you are in fact a 16 year old girl and not just a troll account made yesterday to bait us, then you need to look through our relations and watch those to understand what empowering anime really are, for your own sake. VK I have not read myself but a watched a bit and it was laughably bad on top of being sexist. You can argue your points all you want but I can garuntee you that both of those series are staying firmly planted on our sexist list. |
Amberleh said: shinigamihana216 said: I don't get where your coming from with SAO. It features a strong, independent, and powerful female lead. More so than the male lead as far as I've seen. When I say this I talk about the first arc, the second one was so bad I can't take any part of it seriously. I also don't see how vampire knight is sexist, it just focuses on the male leads because that's who viewers are supposed to like. Almost all shoujo anime is like that, it's the same with shounen romance anime. Why would you put a lot of effort into making a character that is not the main point? Also, by creating a weak or flawed lead, you can draw on the love interests best points. It's a double edged sword, so it can hardly be considered sexist. Oh dear. Oooooohhh dear. You have been very, very brainwashed. Look, I get that SAO is one of your favorite series, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect series. The problem with Asuna was that she STARTED OUT as strong and independent, but pretty early on her entire character changed and she became a perfect little housewife. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT HOUSEWIFE CHARACTERS ARE AUTOMATICALLY SEXIST OR THAT BECOMING ONE IS SEXIST. Mirajane Strauss is on our relations and is a prime example of a character who has a housewife demeanor, but is still very strong both emotionally and physically and copes with the loss of her sister in her own way. Asuna's change was so drastic however. She became another character entirely and the situation did not call for such a dramatic change, unlike the case with Mirajane. There was at least one occassion where Kirito fought for her, as though she were an object. And don't EVEN get me started on the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY HAREM ELEMENTS. SAO needs a harem tag, because that's what it is. A harem. And no, I'm not going to just discount the second half. The second half featured attempted rape and tentacle rape both for the sake of FAN SERVICE. Hello. That's not okay. I'm not even adding the FT manga to relations because it features that in later chapters (though it isn't featuring it as attempted rape, just torture, but torture as fan service isn't okay.) There's also the fact that every female who gets any real screentime save for like, one, falls in love with Kirito. They even say that his little sister was actually his cousin JUST SO THAT SHE CAN FALL IN LOVE WITH KIRITO. Ummm, this is not okay. Sorry, but SAO is really sexist, and if you are in fact a 16 year old girl and not just a troll account made yesterday to bait us, then you need to look through our relations and watch those to understand what empowering anime really are, for your own sake. VK I have not read myself but a watched a bit and it was laughably bad on top of being sexist. You can argue your points all you want but I can garuntee you that both of those series are staying firmly planted on our sexist list. Why am I even here, I was HOPING someone here would be a little more than a LABEL feminist. For the record, I fell in love with my darling Kirito too. |
| So I tried to briefly read over all the posts in this thread. I saw that the Hakuouki series was mentioned, and I'd like to get insight on this series through a feminist lens, since it appears to not be on the list. What are your guys' impression of this series (the ones that include the main female protagonist, Chizuru)? I understand that it's an adaptation of an otome game, much like the detestable Amnesia and Diabolik Lovers animes, so it's more likely to have sexist themes in it, but I thought it was a lot better than Amnesia, DL, or BroCon. I've seen both a lot of hate and love for this series, and it's interesting because yes, I did watch all of the anime installments of it and I did not enjoy many aspects of it, mainly because of how helpless the female protagonist is portrayed as. What intrigued me most about the series was its use of history to base many of the characters off of and how the plot wasn't just focused on the reverse-harem aspect (ie. romance--but still based around a romance), but more of the historical-fantasy plot and also the fact that Chizuru disguises herself as a male samurai to start out her mission. However, the latter part quickly became a disappointment for me because it was quickly dismissed (her getting discovered from episode 1) and she basically spends the rest of the series being--I don't want to say "useless"--but she is pretty much reduced to being a housekeeper role (cooking, looking over the injured, cleaning, etc.) and when in dangerous situations, isn't able to defend herself but can only be saved by the other male characters. A lot of fans of the series argue that the series portrays historical accuracy in that women back in feudal Japan did not have much agency or their upbringing rendered them to not be physically strong, so in a sense Hakuouki is "true" in portraying Chizuru's character. But I call that bullshit, because though it is based on a real historical background, there was also fantasy elements in it, so really...it wasn't all that "accurate." If you take a look at the manga, Kaze Hikaru, it is nearly identical in plot elements with Hakouki, but the main character, Sei, is portrayed as very powerful, independent, determined, and hard-working, and is faced with serious challenges that she tries to overcome with her own abilities. I'm sorry if I'm bringing this up if it was brought up before in the past (I just joined yesterday). So am I wrong to think this? Is there something someone can give me better insight on with Chizuru's character? Is there a reason why it's not on this list? |
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| The reason it's not on the list is very simple: We are lazy. =) I have no problems with putting it on the bad list though. It just hasn't happened, hahaha. |
| Ah...Hakuouki...I really wish I didn't bother watching that. And what's more, I was stupid enough to watch even the second season! I guess I was foolish and relatively new to following anime seasonally, so I checked pretty much everything and my completionist nature wouldn't let me drop anything, save for absolute worst. Indeed, Hakuouki's premise seemed interesting, as well as the setting, which is why I picked it up. A few episodes at the beginning also showed premise, even if they were shaky at times. Sadly, the show didn't deliver past that initial promise. It certainly wasn't terrible overall, but it was so underwhelming that I lost interest quickly. It failed to make me care for almost any character and I spent half of the show just waiting for it to end. The story jumps around, characters act stupid, characters' motives for acting often feel...questionably unrealistic, to say the least, melodrama abound to the point of becoming predictable, too bishounen-y characters for my tastes, the female lead doing her best to make you wanna tear your hair out... All in all, I'd say Hakouki is tolerable, perhaps even decent-ish for an otome title (considering most of the rest otome anime), but if you are not into the whole otome/male harem/bishounen thing, the anime doesn't offer much else to bite into. kawaiipapa said: A lot of fans of the series argue that the series portrays historical accuracy in that women back in feudal Japan did not have much agency or their upbringing rendered them to not be physically strong, so in a sense Hakuouki is "true" in portraying Chizuru's character. I am sorry if someone here may be a Hakuouki fan and I offend them, but that really sounds hilarious. For the sake of historical accuracy, my ass (pardon my French). Well, that post was pointless as I didn't answer any of your question. I can't give an insight into Chizuru's character since I (i) don't really think there's much to her character and (ii) would have to rewatch it to remember half of the finer details and be able to confidently discuss her (and I am certainly not rewatching this). Why is it not on the list? Don't know, didn't read the whole thread. Perhaps we forgot to put it or didn't care for it enough. EDIT: Amber ninja'd me. |
metamorphiusJan 16, 2014 7:51 PM
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| Hahaha okay. I understand. I was just thinking how odd it was that it wasn't on the list. I definitely don't blame either of you for not giving a flying fuck about the series. I admit that it had its interesting points, which is why I chugged along with a lot of patience. But like meamorphius said, it wasn't a terrible show overall. Not compared to a lot of the truly bad ones out there. I just felt that a lot of female anime watchers have seen the series, so that's why I mentioned it. |
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| Firstly, welcome, kawaiipapa! :D I agree with you on the historical accuracy, except for Chizuru's character. Actually, women of that period were much stronger than Chizuru; you had to be made of titanium to survive in that period and with that degree of chauvinism. Chizuru is an embarrassment for any period- not really an embarrassment because we know she couldn't have been written by a woman, but you get my point, lol. It's really too bad because they kept hinting throughout the series that she was hiding something fierce within her. I guess they ditched that thread because she just kept falling on her face every episode. If we were discussing brotherhood, however, the series would be a good example, lol. (I disagree with Meta on that score. The characters' decisions were usually related to that brotherhood and honor, etc.) It's funny, I was just thinking about bringing it up. (Finally, a series I saw!) Good thing you did. ;) |
new_userNov 15, 2014 9:11 PM
cipheron said: ^ These two just take the cake for misogyny. Far, far more than the typical harem. They seem to take the cake for retarded excuses for fanservice even more. For some reason (I don't really remember why anymore, I must have repressed the horrific memories) I checked part of the first episode of Manyuu when it was airing. Of course, I wish I didn't waste my time on that - not only was it fantastically dumb, it also...looked like this due to censoring. They should have just made it a hentai and call it a day. |
metamorphiusJan 17, 2014 8:04 PM
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| Also possibly vying for Kakumeiki Valvrave (it's known as Valverape so....). There's a rape scene in the first season where the main character gives up his humanity to become a vampire in order to control his mecha machinery, and in his "vampire form" he rapes a classmate (like literally pounces on her and has his way). The classmate willingly submits and later develops feelings for him. She's also like "Oh that's okay. You weren't you. If you ever need the urge to rape again, don't hesitate to ask kthnxbye!" This main protagonist also has feelings for another female character....so yeah. Also I lol'd at those two anime synopses. Like putting aside the misogyny, they just sound horrendous. |
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