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Sep 17, 2013 8:32 AM

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Good for Free!
After the pretty much fanservice-only first episode I was about to drop it, but starting with episode 2 it was just a good s-o-l drama without a club full of moe girls, which I found refreshing. The setting alone should satisfy many fujoshi, they don't need to devalue the characters for obvious fanservice pandering like in episode 1. Glad they realized that and managed to keep a good amount of the male viewers on their side throughout the season.
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Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:38 AM
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wow, Free!

It's cool it's doing pretty well, it's a pretty fun series.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:41 AM

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Higashi_no_Kaze said:
After the pretty much fanservice-only first episode I was about to drop it, but starting with episode 2 it was just a good s-o-l drama without a club full of moe girls, which I found refreshing. The setting alone should satisfy many fujoshi, they don't need to devalue the characters for obvious fanservice pandering like in episode 1. Glad they realized that and managed to keep a good amount of the male viewers on their side throughout the season.
I would say the existence of female character, in particularly Gou, is crucial in retaining the male viewers as the first episode was aired. And they also took particular care in giving her a lot of room to speak and interact, but never ever hint at anything about romance feeling with the guys, which would be no-no for fujoshi. So each side gets something they enjoy and what they don't particularly enjoy stay at a comfortable level. And then a solid drama that both male and females can identify (and fujoshi can fantansize) occasionally sprinkled with fanservice for the ladies but never so over-the-top that it repels those who are averse to BL. This seems to be the formula of success for this anime.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:45 AM

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Eh. Fujopshi are not better than otakus in tersms of buying "moe" staff. Same as K-On sold Free sells. And this makes me sad cause both are just "moe for moe" or "cute X doing cute things" and nothing more.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:47 AM

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Nachtwandler_21 said:
Eh. Fujopshi are not better than otakus in tersms of buying "moe" staff. Same as K-On sold Free sells. And this makes me sad cause both are just "moe for moe" or "cute X doing cute things" and nothing more.
And you can't be more wrong because there is a solid story in Free which is something I won't say for K-On except for the final arc in the second season. So you are being sad for no good reason LOL
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:47 AM

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symbv said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:
After the pretty much fanservice-only first episode I was about to drop it, but starting with episode 2 it was just a good s-o-l drama without a club full of moe girls, which I found refreshing. The setting alone should satisfy many fujoshi, they don't need to devalue the characters for obvious fanservice pandering like in episode 1. Glad they realized that and managed to keep a good amount of the male viewers on their side throughout the season.
I would say the existence of female character, in particularly Gou, is crucial in retaining the male viewers as the first episode was aired. And they also took particular care in giving her a lot of room to speak and interact, but never ever hint at anything about romance feeling with the guys, which would be no-no for fujoshi. So each side gets something they enjoy and what they don't particularly enjoy stay at a comfortable level. And then a solid drama that both male and females can identify (and fujoshi can fantansize) occasionally sprinkled with fanservice for the ladies but never so over-the-top that it repels those who are averse to BL. This seems to be the formula of success for this anime.


But I still wonder why the first episode was so much more focused on the fanservice. The difference was so noticeable that I can't help but ask myself why they did it. Maybe to get the Fujoshi to have high anticipations while at the same time scaring away those guys who detest BL even if it's only hinted at. It kinda gave a wrong impression of the series though and I'm not surprised to hear that people dropped it at this point. They could have just made Episode 1 as well-balanced as the rest of the show and they may have kept even more male viewers.
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Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:51 AM

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But there are as much swimming as music in K-On. And you can't argue that it's mainly fanservice for fujoshi's. The story is just a secondary thing
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:53 AM

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symbv said:
b]CD Single
19, *3,767 *22,465 Free! : Character Song Vol.3 Matsuoka Rin (Miyano Mamoru) "Break our balance"
21, *3,647 **3,647 Takanashi Rikka Kai: Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! Movie album "~Chuunibyou Ougi . Sankyoku no Kiwami~"
22, *3,528 *26,007 Gin no Saji OP "Faraway / Kiss you"
26, *2,841 212,338 Shingeki no Kyojin OP "Jiyuu e no Shingeki"
32, *2,310 *21,002 Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai. Movie theme song "Circle Game"
33, *2,274 **2,274 Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai: Megami-hen ED "Kizuna no Yukue"
34, *2,253 *83,725 Uchuu Senkan Yamato 2199 TV OP "Fight For Liberty / Wizard CLUB"
36, *2,090 **9,090 Dangan Ronpa the Animation ED "Zetsubousei: Hero Chiryouyaku"
41, *1,755 *51,592 Free! ED "Splash Free"
42, *1,602 **8,165 Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai. ED "secret base ~Kimi ga Kureta Mono~ 12 years after special package"
55, *1,301 *29,445 Toaru Kagaku no Railgun S OP "eternal reality"

CD Album
29, 2,712 24,526 Free! Drama CD "Iwatobi Koukou Suieibu - Katsudou Nisshi 1"
51, 1,539 13,675 Free! Radio CD "Iwatobi Channel" Vol.1
56, 1,426 52,768 Shingeki no Kyojin Original Soundtrack
63, 1,320 *1,320 Code Geass: Boukoku no Akito "Sound Episode 1"
92, 1,004 *5,956 Ro-Kyu-Bu! "Dear friends"

Nice~
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:54 AM
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symbv said:
Nachtwandler_21 said:
Eh. Fujopshi are not better than otakus in tersms of buying "moe" staff. Same as K-On sold Free sells. And this makes me sad cause both are just "moe for moe" or "cute X doing cute things" and nothing more.
And you can't be more wrong because there is a solid story in Free which is something I won't say for K-On except for the final arc in the second season. So you are being sad for no good reason LOL


lol I agree the kon didin´t have any plot at all, butthe same goes for free? I think you saw another anime then free.

It has good sales, without doubt but the only reason it sold so well was the fanservice and bl hints..
 
Sep 17, 2013 8:54 AM

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Higashi_no_Kaze said:
But I still wonder why the first episode was so much more focused on the fanservice. The difference was so noticeable that I can't help but ask myself why they did it. Maybe to get the Fujoshi to have high anticipations while at the same time scaring away those guys who detest BL even if it's only hinted at. It kinda gave a wrong impression of the series though and I'm not surprised to hear that people dropped it at this point. They could have just made Episode 1 as well-balanced as the rest of the show and they may have kept even more male viewers.
I think you asked a very good question. I am sure quite a lot of male viewers could have dropped the anime given the level of fanservice in the first episode (and some surely did), which is why I said the presence of the female character completed with good amount of close-ups, was so crucial for that episode (and thus the series). You may be right that their priority is to lock in the female audience (I tried to distinguish between fujoshi and female anime fans, so you'd see me use the term fujoshi only to mean BL loving girls) but leave enough crumbs for the male watchers. In fact this seems to be precisely the reactions I saw in Japanese forums after the first episodes - many fans kept a "let's wait and see" attitude, not too keen but not pissed off either, and all seem to love Go a lot LOL. Only after a few episodes did I see people turn enthusiastic about the story and started to confess that they were wrong in judging and dismissing the anime too early.

Nachtwandler_21 said:
But there are as much swimming as music in K-On. And you can't argue that it's mainly fanservice for fujoshi's. The story is just a secondary thing
As much swimming as music in K-ON??? What world are you living, man?

Anyway, from the comments I read in Japanese forums, the male audience looked at the story first. At the end they think the fanservice is something they can feel comfortable with (at least tolerable) and this anime offers a lot more than that so that even those who are not fujoshi and not into male appeal can enjoy this anime. Besides there are something like the female characters to please those male watchers on top of the story. This is why this succeeds so much. Calling it just "moe for moe" for its success is pure failure to get the real picture.
Modified by symbv, Sep 17, 2013 9:01 AM
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:05 AM

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symbv said:
]I would say the existence of female character, in particularly Gou, is crucial in retaining the male viewers as the first episode was aired. And they also took particular care in giving her a lot of room to speak and interact, but never ever hint at anything about romance feeling with the guys, which would be no-no for fujoshi. So each side gets something they enjoy and what they don't particularly enjoy stay at a comfortable level. And then a solid drama that both male and females can identify (and fujoshi can fantansize) occasionally sprinkled with fanservice for the ladies but never so over-the-top that it repels those who are averse to BL. This seems to be the formula of success for this anime.


Her design did nothing for me (theres probably 50 girls this season I like better), so there wasn't any reason for me to watch it just for her. She had this weird case of man shoulders or something I just couldn't ignore.

 
Sep 17, 2013 9:06 AM

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symbv said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:
But I still wonder why the first episode was so much more focused on the fanservice. The difference was so noticeable that I can't help but ask myself why they did it. Maybe to get the Fujoshi to have high anticipations while at the same time scaring away those guys who detest BL even if it's only hinted at. It kinda gave a wrong impression of the series though and I'm not surprised to hear that people dropped it at this point. They could have just made Episode 1 as well-balanced as the rest of the show and they may have kept even more male viewers.
I think you asked a very good question. I am sure quite a lot of male viewers could have dropped the anime given the level of fanservice in the first episode (and some surely did), which is why I said the presence of the female character completed with good amount of close-ups, was so crucial for that episode (and thus the series). You may be right that their priority is to lock in the female audience (I tried to distinguish between fujoshi and female anime fans, so you'd see me use the term fujoshi only to mean BL loving girls) but leave enough crumbs for the male watchers. In fact this seems to be precisely the reactions I saw in Japanese forums after the first episodes - many fans kept a "let's wait and see" attitude, not too keen but not pissed off either, and all seem to love Go a lot LOL. Only after a few episodes did I see people turn enthusiastic about the story and started to confess that they were wrong in judging and dismissing the anime too early.


I'm not sure how much Gou had to do with my personal 'wait-and-see' approach after ep 1 (I rarely drop anime after only 1 episode no matter what), but I can't deny that her appearance probably made me think 'So they're not only going to cater to the female fans' for a moment there (I've seen enough otome game adaptions to know how that looks like xD). So I can see how she could have baited a lot of male viewers into watching the 2nd episode and more. I personally don't care much about her though.
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Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:06 AM
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symbv said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:
But I still wonder why the first episode was so much more focused on the fanservice. The difference was so noticeable that I can't help but ask myself why they did it. Maybe to get the Fujoshi to have high anticipations while at the same time scaring away those guys who detest BL even if it's only hinted at. It kinda gave a wrong impression of the series though and I'm not surprised to hear that people dropped it at this point. They could have just made Episode 1 as well-balanced as the rest of the show and they may have kept even more male viewers.
I think you asked a very good question. I am sure quite a lot of male viewers could have dropped the anime given the level of fanservice in the first episode (and some surely did), which is why I said the presence of the female character completed with good amount of close-ups, was so crucial for that episode (and thus the series). You may be right that their priority is to lock in the female audience (I tried to distinguish between fujoshi and female anime fans, so you'd see me use the term fujoshi only to mean BL loving girls) but leave enough crumbs for the male watchers. In fact this seems to be precisely the reactions I saw in Japanese forums after the first episodes - many fans kept a "let's wait and see" attitude, not too keen but not pissed off either, and all seem to love Go a lot LOL. Only after a few episodes did I see people turn enthusiastic about the story and started to confess that they were wrong in judging and dismissing the anime too early.

Nachtwandler_21 said:
But there are as much swimming as music in K-On. And you can't argue that it's mainly fanservice for fujoshi's. The story is just a secondary thing
As much swimming as music in K-ON??? What world are you living, man?

Anyway, from the comments I read in Japanese forums, the male audience looked at the story first. At the end they think the fanservice is something they can feel comfortable with (at least tolerable) and this anime offers a lot more than that so that even those who are not fujoshi and not into male appeal can enjoy this anime. Besides there are something like the female characters to please those male watchers on top of the story. This is why this succeeds so much. Calling it just "moe for moe" for its success is pure failure to get the real picture.


huuhuhu? Now I get the picture. So free something completely different then kon. Laugh*
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:07 AM
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I don't particularly care about Free itself, but I'm glad that yet another KyoAni show is doing so well. Seeing the DB movie sell so nicely is cool, too. One of these days I have to watch it myself.
The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:09 AM

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@symbv
Yup, i can vouch for that, it seems many male viewers and kyoani fans actually liked free! (which definitely had a role in the sales), while most appreciated Gou, from what i read, the story wasn't bad either and it wasn't that BL-ish or Bishie-ish, (they made it kinda clear that the characters were "straight" too, so throw in some shoujo shipping fans) which in turn makes it tolerable and watchable, it also has a nice story, so in the end it managed to attract regular female anime fans, BL fans, and male fans.

How much do you think it'll average symbv? i Think around 18-20k.

Higashi_no_Kaze said:

I'm not sure how much Gou had to do with my personal 'wait-and-see' approach after ep 1 (I rarely drop anime after only 1 episode no matter what), but I can't deny that her appearance probably made me think 'So they're not only going to cater to the female fans' for a moment there (I've seen enough otome game adaptions to know how that looks like xD). So I can see how she could have baited a lot of male viewers into watching the 2nd episode and more. I personally don't care much about her though.


Lol if only 2ch forums had literal english versions, you'd be surprised at how many males watched and bought this show. dam gou.
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:20 AM

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☆*:.。. ☆*:.。. ☆*:.。. ☆*:.。.☆Free!☆..。.:*☆。.:*☆.。.:*☆.。.:*☆.。.:*☆

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Sep 17, 2013 9:27 AM

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wow with Free sales

may get the DVDs too :3

let's hope for a good end<3

∠( ゚Д゚)/ - I only draw freestyle! -
 
Sep 17, 2013 9:31 AM

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I knew what I could expect from Free! and am pleasantly surprised how good the show is, and that it's more than just guys going half-naked all the time. And I find Gou a very good character. She's not your average airheaded girl who's just there for decoration, but plays an active role in the story. Looks like KyoAni made a gamble, and struck gold. Nothing but praise for that from my part.
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Sep 17, 2013 10:02 AM

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Kyoani finds a way.
[center]
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:06 AM

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Free is such a special treasure that deserves to be treated specially.....I remember when Uta no Prince Sama was such an astonishingly well made show that it's first volume did like 65,000. Truly quality is the only factor in play here and there's nothing else to this whole sales thing whatsoever.

Praise be to Kyoani forever and for always the greatest there ever is and will ever be....

j0x said:
cool to see Dragon Ball still selling well


The difference between something like Kami to Kami and Free is the former will surely manage to make a splash (pun not intended) internationally as well and trigger some nostalgia value in people while the latter will likely never see the light of day for the most part. Funny how nobody has mentioned that.

AO968 said:
I knew what I could expect from Free! and am pleasantly surprised how good the show is, and that it's more than just guys going half-naked all the time. And I find Gou a very good character. She's not your average airheaded girl who's just there for decoration, but plays an active role in the story. Looks like KyoAni made a gamble, and struck gold. Nothing but praise for that from my part.


I really don't see creating a female lead that's not a total airhead as an achievement so much as an expectation, though maybe this is different where Kyoani shows are concerned since many of their female leads tend to fall into that category ever since K-On. Praise praise praise though lol.....

Higashi_no_Kaze said:
Good for Free!
After the pretty much fanservice-only first episode I was about to drop it, but starting with episode 2 it was just a good s-o-l drama without a club full of moe girls, which I found refreshing. The setting alone should satisfy many fujoshi, they don't need to devalue the characters for obvious fanservice pandering like in episode 1. Glad they realized that and managed to keep a good amount of the male viewers on their side throughout the season.


Eh I felt they were devaluing characters pretty well when they did that whole thing with Rei and his limp wristed drama and the fake mouth to mouth thing. That whole episode was pretty ridiculous to me cause it's more or less like they're suggesting it's okay to do something as painfully stupid a he did that night, and have your friends have to come in and rescue you as long as you end up okay and have some sappy back story to explain it. Not even so much as a real scolding so if people want to talk great writing I think that's an example of where it kind of failed to live up to it's supposed pedigree that people want to attach yet again cause I guess Kyoani is special or something and mediocre/not completely terrible writing somehow becomes extra special great when they're involved cause name brand and sales I guess.
Modified by PeacingOut, Sep 17, 2013 10:23 AM
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:17 AM
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Higashi_no_Kaze said:
I'm not sure how much Gou had to do with my personal 'wait-and-see' approach after ep 1 (I rarely drop anime after only 1 episode no matter what), but I can't deny that her appearance probably made me think 'So they're not only going to cater to the female fans' for a moment there (I've seen enough otome game adaptions to know how that looks like xD). So I can see how she could have baited a lot of male viewers into watching the 2nd episode and more. I personally don't care much about her though.


She may not have had a direct impact, but the introduction of her, the sensei, and then Rin helped to break or at least dilute the tight male bonding of the three main characters (as well as injected a lot more humor into the series) that was the focus of the BL claims.

I am not sure that KyoAni meant for the first episode to be so BLy (though they did to some extent). Several of the things that people ragged on after the first episode became far more benign later (such as the MC's tendency to always wear swimming trunks so he can jump in water). With that habit, the opening scene with the friend walking into the bathroom wasn't BL as much as simple character development that people expecting BL latched on to.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:24 AM

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jmal said:
Mikenzb said:
25,726 *1 Free! [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/11
WHAT THE HELL... Really?
I bet all those people that brought them were all female.

You've lost your bet already - I'm importing Free! and am not female.
You go jmal, my man.

And even if everyone who did buy it was female, so what?

Also are we just going to ignore that Danganronpa sold freaking 6k? I'm pretty sure for a murder mystery anime, which don't do too well in Japan, that's pretty damn good. I hope for a Super Danganronpa 2 adaption by another studio with at least 20+ episodes.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:25 AM

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Nachtwandler_21 said:
But there are as much swimming as music in K-On. And you can't argue that it's mainly fanservice for fujoshi's. The story is just a secondary thing
There's far more swimming in Free than there is music in K-On.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:28 AM
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Kaioshin_Sama said:
Praise be to Kyoani forever and for always the greatest there ever is and will ever be....

The difference between something like Kami to Kami and Free is the former will surely manage to make a splash (pun not intended) internationally as well and trigger some nostalgia value in people while the latter will likely never see the light of day for the most part. Funny how nobody has mentioned that.


For all your complaining about KyoAni, they sure got you to watch the show, so that means that they are doing something right.

As for comparing Dragon Ball to Free, no one is doing that. Free's sales, while very good, are no where near historic, people are happy that it did so much better than predicted, not because they think it should be the top seller.

And few people I think are claiming that KyoAni is up their with Studio Ghibii as the "Greatest animation company ever". To use a comparison, Ghibli is like a batter who can hit for average and for power, KyoAni is more like Ichiro - they have a high batting average. Not as flashy, not as valuable as a power hitter, but impressive in its own right.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:30 AM

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Akichii said:
You go jmal, my man.

And even if everyone who did buy it was female, so what?

Also are we just going to ignore that Danganronpa sold freaking 6k? I'm pretty sure for a murder mystery anime, which don't do too well in Japan, that's pretty damn good. I hope for a Super Danganronpa 2 adaption by another studio with at least 20+ episodes.


People who think all these BD's and DVD's were bought only by female fans are clearly delusional, they need to learn to deal with it, the show was popular with male fans too, which invalidates all their arguments about this show being BL or something of that sort, cause it's not, and thankfully we have more than enough proof on just 2ch forums.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:34 AM

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Akichii said:
jmal said:
Mikenzb said:
25,726 *1 Free! [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/11
WHAT THE HELL... Really?
I bet all those people that brought them were all female.

You've lost your bet already - I'm importing Free! and am not female.
You go jmal, my man.

And even if everyone who did buy it was female, so what?

Also are we just going to ignore that Danganronpa sold freaking 6k? I'm pretty sure for a murder mystery anime, which don't do too well in Japan, that's pretty damn good. I hope for a Super Danganronpa 2 adaption by another studio with at least 20+ episodes.


Ultimately I'm inclined to agree, but at the same time I find it funny that people seem to think this is an extra special case just cause it's Kyoani or something. I don't remember anywhere near this much celebration and fervor for other cross appeal fujoshi anime like Tiger and Bunny for example, but then again that wasn't that the designate praise name that Kyoani brand has become.

It's so....comical to me at this point almost, but I guess if this is what it takes for female fans to maybe have a shot at receiving less grief from the really ugly side of the fandom that showed itself before the show airs (funny how people forget about that as time goes on) then Kyoani may have actually caused something positive to happen for the community again.

I honestly doubt it though, all that is likely to come of this is more reverse trolling in the end and people shouting in your face like the one guy at the beginning of the thread while the real issues and ugliness that plague the anime fandom go largely ignored.

Also yes we are ignoring Dangan Ronpa because nobody really likes to talk about things that don't contain certain names and brands in these threads. It's all about celebrating a small handful over and over. That's the joke. You could have had a surprise shows sell over 50K and guess what people would still be talking about and treating extra specially.

Takuan_Soho said:
Kaioshin_Sama said:
Praise be to Kyoani forever and for always the greatest there ever is and will ever be....

The difference between something like Kami to Kami and Free is the former will surely manage to make a splash (pun not intended) internationally as well and trigger some nostalgia value in people while the latter will likely never see the light of day for the most part. Funny how nobody has mentioned that.


For all your complaining about KyoAni, they sure got you to watch the show, so that means that they are doing something right.

As for comparing Dragon Ball to Free, no one is doing that. Free's sales, while very good, are no where near historic, people are happy that it did so much better than predicted, not because they think it should be the top seller.

And few people I think are claiming that KyoAni is up their with Studio Ghibii as the "Greatest animation company ever". To use a comparison, Ghibli is like a batter who can hit for average and for power, KyoAni is more like Ichiro - they have a high batting average. Not as flashy, not as valuable as a power hitter, but impressive in its own right.


I'll try anything once, it's the getting me to actually like and respect it part that's tough. I mean I've followed a lot of shows this season only to drop them in the end for their failure to meet my bare minimum standards of not being overly boring, not putting pandering ahead of having a strong script, and not giving me the feeling of wasting my time. As it stands I found Free pretty well mediocre and have since dropped it again and though it's not the worst of the season considering what it has to contend to I'm not sure it'd have held up even remotely for me in a seriously competitive and interesting season like say Fall.

I have one friend that's been following it still for similar reasons (utter lack of more interesting things to follow sad as that is) though he has very little positive to say about it and thinks the writing is even poorer than I did now so god knows what's happened since.

As for the latter, I think just over the past 6-7 years people pay a disproportionate amount of attention to a handful of names over everyone else and always celebrate them even when their achievements aren't really that grand in the scheme of things. I think it's created a very artificial and imagined tier structure to the whole perception of the industry that really isn't as factual as people seem to want to believe.

Like people need to be honest here, if Free wasn't by Kyoani nobody would be celebrating it's supposedly single handedly breaking down the gender walls of anime that really shouldn't even be there in the first place if this fandom weren't so grossly misogynistic at times and reinforced that sort of behavior at times via it's content, and nobody would be acting like it was somehow the first and only series to achieve cross gender appeal or whatever it is that people are rushing to celebrate here.

If Free is extra special somehow because it managed to prove a handful of idiot misogynists wrong by not being completely and irredeemable terrible and revolving around male on male make out sessions like some jumped to conclusions and expected then I'm sorry but people must have really low standards for greatness and what ought to be praised as a special achievement. It makes it looks like those misogynists are setting the bar (and if so it's a very low and awkwardly positioned one indeed) and somehow Free's high sales magically fix all that is wrong with the community when it comes to how it looks at the female sex, but guess what, it doesn't and they'll surely reveal their ugliness again when the opportunity presents itself.
Modified by PeacingOut, Sep 17, 2013 10:50 AM
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:38 AM

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Hm, I remember a lot of pleasantly surprised people posting about Tiger & Bunny's success back then, I was one of them. Not sure where you're referring to, but here on MAL I definitely don't see Free! being praised more for it's sales than Tiger & Bunny so far. To be honest probably any kind of positive feedback would have gotten that reaction out of you.

Also it's not necessarily praise, some people are just happy a show they liked sold a lot better than expected.
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Sep 17, 2013 10:55 AM

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Kaioshin_Sama said:


Also yes we are ignoring Dangan Ronpa because nobody really likes to talk about things that don't contain certain names and brands in these threads. It's all about celebrating a small handful over and over. That's the joke. You could have had a surprise shows sell over 50K and guess what people would still be talking about and treating extra specially.


No, we're "ignoring" Danganronpa because it was released 3 weeks ago and people talked about it 3 weeks ago.

And I'm sure you heard about this show called Girls und Panzer, a surprise hit that sold a buttload and that a lot of people were talking about for months? Yeah. I know you have some sort of personal vendetta against KyoAni, but come on, at least try to make some claims that aren't completely wrong.
 
Sep 17, 2013 10:55 AM
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Kaioshin_Sama said:
I'll try anything once, it's the getting me to actually like it part that's tough. As it stands I found it pretty well mediocre and have since dropped it again. I have one friend that's been following it still though he has very little positive to say about it and thinks the writing is even poorer than I did now so god knows what's happened since.


To be frank, I felt the same way and dropped it after the sixth episode. But just because it isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean that I can't understand why other people like it.

KyoAni's strength isn't the writing in particular, their strength is that they have a distinctive art style that is very appealing and that they are good at creating appealing sub characters that compliment an often MC. They also show creativity in doing "variations" on their main themes. Clannad isn't K-On isn't Nichichou isn't Haruhi isn't Chunnibyou isn't Tamako, though all of these have a lot in common. So while this means that if you don't like KyoAni's market, you won't like any of their shows, it also means that all their shows will appeal to those who are in their market.
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:00 AM

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Higashi_no_Kaze said:
Hm, I remember a lot of pleasantly surprised people posting about Tiger & Bunny's success back then, I was one of them. Not sure where you're referring to, but here on MAL I definitely don't see Free! being praised more for it's sales than Tiger & Bunny so far. To be honest probably any kind of positive feedback would have gotten that reaction out of you.

Also it's not necessarily praise, some people are just happy a show they liked sold a lot better than expected.


Funny all I remember people telling me was that Tiger and Bunny accomplished nothing despite having a nigh unheard of in this time 30 something lead character and managing to become a big hit because it had fujoshi fans supporting it, but maybe you read some other thread. Funny too how times change......

Also I can't comprehend how people could expect a Kyoani/Fujoshi show about swimming in the dead heat of summer with next to no serious competition for otaku's attention to not do exceptionally well, but there were a lot of "interesting" opinions when this show was first announced about how Kyoani had betrayed the otaku fanbase I guess so what else is new. Still as I keep pointing out when you set the bar for achievement and earning praise so low for the likes of Kyoani, as I truly believe people are often apt to do, that they practically just have to skip over it by making a not completely terrible show I all but fail to see the point of the praises. As I said in other thread at that point it just kind of becomes tokenism.

Though ultimately if people just genuinely like the show and aren't politicking about it I at least understand that much.
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:00 AM

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Season 2 of Free! when?

Next year after Tamako Market and Chuuinbyou (sp?)?
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD"
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:11 AM

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Takuan_Soho said:

To be frank, I felt the same way and dropped it after the sixth episode. But just because it isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean that I can't understand why other people like it.

KyoAni's strength isn't the writing in particular, their strength is that they have a distinctive art style that is very appealing and that they are good at creating appealing sub characters that compliment an often MC. They also show creativity in doing "variations" on their main themes. Clannad isn't K-On isn't Nichichou isn't Haruhi isn't Chunnibyou isn't Tamako, though all of these have a lot in common. So while this means that if you don't like KyoAni's market, you won't like any of their shows, it also means that all their shows will appeal to those who are in their market.


Well I have to say it's nice that people are allowing me to have my position for a change this week without too much hassle. Then again Jmal isn't here to try to convince everyone what a horrible monster I am lol.

Honestly, I can understand why people like it, and to be fair they aren't going super overboard on the effusive praise and complete intolerance of dissent like the Kadokawa/Kyoani days.

Yes I think the writing for pretty much all Kyoani anime save perhaps select arcs of After Story, Hyouka and the Haruhi series leave a LOT to be desired, but I'm also not a huge fan of their character design style. Just sticking to Free for now there's something about those moe style faces on chiseled hard bodies that just feels off and hilarious somehow, making it kind of hard to take some of the more melodramatic moments of the show seriously.

When it comes to creativity I don't think they're all that special either. While you have other major studios doing very different shows from project to project, Kyoani's largely still tend to revolve around that "light and fluffy" aesthetic and tone where the lives of the characters are highly idealized and the drama is often too limp-wristed because it tends to come at awkward moments between all the happy go lucky moe moe stuff and often tends to be resolved very easily. Character development tends to be at a premium, though Free is admittedly doing a little better than most albeit still below the average I'd expect from just about any other studios overall effort and focuses.

That said what you said makes sense, when you pretty much know exactly what to expect out of the show and there's likely to be very little in the way of surprises or deviations from a set formula (Toei I feel built an empire out of this sort of approach) and you happen to be in tune with what they're offering of course you're going to build an affinity for that company. I just never understood why so many Kyoani fans always expected me to feel the same way about Kyoani's supposed all encompassing grandeur and place the same weight and values on the things that they did again admitting that the Kyoani fandom has gotten quite a bit less insufferable on that level since the days of the Kadokawa and Key partnerships.

Demon_Acker said:

And I'm sure you heard about this show called Girls und Panzer, a surprise hit that sold a buttload and that a lot of people were talking about for months? Yeah. I know you have some sort of personal vendetta against KyoAni, but come on, at least try to make some claims that aren't completely wrong.


Yeah fair enough. I do recall people talking about how that show blended military themes with moe in order to draw in two very unlikely to coexist crowds, though again I've seen that sort of thing work before with the likes of Infinite Stratos I'll concede you that point nonetheless. GuP is the kind of show I like to refer to as a "meeting me halfway" show since while I don't object to moe I don't seek out shows based on moe appeal much either, but Military style anime has the highest success rate with me so when you blend the two it makes it a lot easier to get into and understand some of the latest moe trends a little more.

I kind of hope for more examples like that in the future. The industry really needs for more upstart surprise hits from unlikely sources to get a break like GuP did.

Seriously though damn impressed, that somebody would have the presence of mind to acknowledge throw that curveball that was just sitting there asking to be thrown into the mix.
Modified by PeacingOut, Sep 17, 2013 12:21 PM
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:22 AM

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Roloko said:
Season 2 of Free! when?

Next year after Tamako Market and Chuuinbyou (sp?)?


honestly i never understood why Tamako market got a second season, its sales weren't really that big, on the other hand, second season of Free! and Chunibyou would make sense.
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:28 AM

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Downgrade355 said:
Roloko said:
Season 2 of Free! when?

Next year after Tamako Market and Chuuinbyou (sp?)?


honestly i never understood why Tamako market got a second season, its sales weren't really that big, on the other hand, second season of Free! and Chunibyou would make sense.


They never announced a second season,everyone jumped the gun, they announced a new "project", could be a 2nd seasonor maybe an OVA or it could be something completely different like a manga.

Modified by totoum, Sep 17, 2013 11:48 AM
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Sep 17, 2013 11:28 AM

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Blu-ray
*1, 17,944 *17,944 Dragon Ball Z Movie 14: Kami to Kami - Limited Edition
*3, *5,877 **5,877 Dragon Ball Z Movie 14: Kami to Kami - Regular Edition
Still haven't got time to watch it but good to see that it's selling good.

*4, *1,098 *39,975 Toaru Majutsu no Index: Endymion no Kiseki
Nice to see that index is still selling

*5, **,869 **8,124 Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai. BD Box
Still waiting for the sub
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:34 AM
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Downgrade355 said:
Roloko said:
Season 2 of Free! when?

Next year after Tamako Market and Chuuinbyou (sp?)?


honestly i never understood why Tamako market got a second season, its sales weren't really that big, on the other hand, second season of Free! and Chunibyou would make sense.


A seconde season of free would never make sense.
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:35 AM

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Hoping for a Free S2
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:48 AM

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I hate FREE but seriously who think this anime won't sell definitely a noob.
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.

KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.
Modified by IZUMI64, Sep 17, 2013 11:52 AM
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:50 AM

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Aw yeah, Dragon Ball! Battle of Gods deserves the money! I hope a sequel comes out soon!
Bum Bum Dum Dum

 
Sep 17, 2013 11:51 AM

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Index S3 when?!
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:55 AM
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IZUMI64 said:
I hate FREE but seriously who think this anime won't sell definitely a noob.
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.

KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.


seems legit.
 
Sep 17, 2013 11:56 AM

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Nachtwandler_21 said:
But there are as much swimming as music in K-On. And you can't argue that it's mainly fanservice for fujoshi's. The story is just a secondary thing

OK, that's just flat out wrong. There's WAY more swimming then K-ON ever had music. Hell, episodes 07&08 have more swimming then K-ON had music for both seasons. We actually see them swimming, training for swimming, talking about swimming, etc.

If you say Free! has little to no swimming, like K-ON had little to no music, you are delusional, or just lying.
 
Sep 17, 2013 12:01 PM

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IZUMI64 said:

any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio


I can't tell if people are honestly serious when they say that.
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Sep 17, 2013 12:13 PM

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totoum said:
IZUMI64 said:

any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio


I can't tell if people are honestly serious when they say that.


Based on what I've witnessed and the sheer passion and fervor fans that focus on moe tend to show versus those that focus on things that you'd think ought to matter most like an outstanding script and truly memorable characters and how the former seems far more likely to be the type to collect blu-rays it seems like a good place to start to me. I mean I can't count the number of times I've seen a show that I thought really stood out to me for having exceptional direction, writing and all around complex and interesting themes has sold jack shit all versus a Free or Date A Live or some other anime with IMO lame to mediocre overall efforts and typical gag comedy and fan service driven arcs do amazing so when people try to insist to me that sales are the sole result of a show being good I have to laugh,
 
Sep 17, 2013 12:15 PM

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totoum said:
IZUMI64 said:

any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio


I can't tell if people are honestly serious when they say that.

A lot of anime fans have no idea how the industry works.
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Sep 17, 2013 12:19 PM

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IZUMI64 said:
I hate FREE but seriously who think this anime won't sell definitely a noob.
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.

KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.

We don't need your bullshit, get out.
 
Sep 17, 2013 12:19 PM

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IZUMI64 said:
KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.
lol
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.
People who think like this are what's wrong with the western community nowadays.

 
Sep 17, 2013 12:22 PM

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I kinda feel bad for contributing in the typical weekly discussion....YOU KNOW THE ONE
 
Sep 17, 2013 12:22 PM

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vongola1314 said:
IZUMI64 said:
I hate FREE but seriously who think this anime won't sell definitely a noob.
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.

KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.

We don't need your bullshit, get out.
AndyRayy said:
IZUMI64 said:
KyoAni using FREE for increasing their income so they can make another moe for male viewers. (chuunibyou and more importantly Tamako, who gonna expect they're going to make Tamako again)

basically, in the future, just maybe... They gonna make FREE s2 if they need another money booster...
that's my conclusion after read Tamako new project announcement.
lol
any kind of moe (Bishie is moe for fujoshi) related will sell! at least gonna bring profit for the studio.
People who think like this are what's wrong with the western community nowadays.


People that deny that there's any hint of truth to that statement and tell people who's opinions they don't like to get out are far worse for the Western community nowadays.

jmal said:
Kaioshin_Sama said:
Then again Jmal isn't here to try to convince everyone what a horrible monster I am lol.

Your whiny, obsessive posts do a perfectly good job of that already.


You know what, I don't think so actually. I think there's plenty of people that see points in what I have to say even if they don't fully or even largely agree and/or think I tend to go on a bit to long which even I'll admit to.

To me it's better than letting people like you completely throw their weight around, try to control the message, and try to shut down any opinion they feel shouldn't be allowed to be presented in these threads or are wrong by default. As long as there's some measure of respect being shown to the person you are talking to (I think you could stand to learn this lesson to be honest) I think it's perfectly fair to agree to disagree or even find the other persons points ludicrous and try to counter them.

It's part of a time old process called debate and discussion. *shrug*
Modified by PeacingOut, Sep 17, 2013 12:28 PM
 
Sep 17, 2013 12:24 PM
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AndyRayy said:

People who think like this are what's wrong with the western community nowadays.


It's pretty much true though. You'll have a hard time finding series aimed directly at fujoshi not selling much. Not everything sells as well, but Kyo Ani has its high animation standard and the like, so it's not too unexpected. A sure sign of female fans being part of the group is an unusually large amount of dvds sold. No idea if this show has male fans as well. Might be, given that it's from Kyo Ani and some probably tried it out. Or something.

It's also why these types of shows become more and more available. There's comparatively little risk involved. You tend to break even rather easily and that's important with any investment.
 
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