LOL YOZORA LOL. [novel vol.9 spoiler]

Jan 22, 2014 6:48 PM

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Oct 2012

6648

mironicus said:

Author does nothing to make Yozora more likeable.

Why should he do that? Yozoro was created to show you why people can't make any friends. So your conclusion "I don't want to have a friend like that" is exactly what the author wants - to distance yourself from her.

And you did it... congratulations! You have proofed that you care about the people Yozora hurts! And this means: You are a good friend yourself! ^^

I think you are missing the point and the dynamic of all the relations in this series. Yozora really hasn't hurt anyone except for Sena that one time with the foretelling, and it was quite clear that Yozora actually felt bad about that once she realized what she had done. People like to say that she bullies Yukimura, but they miss the point that Yukimura actually enjoys it, Yozora provides her with a sense of identity that her other classmates could not provide. I am not saying that Yozora did this on purpose, but similar to Sena, if Yozora actually thought that she had hurt Yukimura it would bother her, but there is nothing to suggest that Yozora has actually hurt Yukimura (or Maria for that matter - if Maria was actually hurt by anything Yozora did, do you honestly think that Kate would put up with it).

As for "not being able to make friends", that also is wrong: Yukimura, Maria and Kobata each deeply respects Yozora and Rika really wants to be Yozora's friend (as does Sena deep down, which is why the fortunetelling hurt her so much), but the problem is that Yozora honestly does not want to make friends with anyone outside of Kodaka.

What makes Yozora likeable isn't anything that the writer has directly done, but rather that the writer has made it perfectly clear that something pretty bad has happened to Yozora and this is the source of all her problems, take away that thing and you have a pretty remarkable friend. What this was hadn't been discussed, but it is revealed in the 9th volume.

Jan 30, 2014 2:45 PM

#102

mironicus

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Jul 2012

146

In many ways, your opinion is the opposite of mine.

Let me ask you one question. What is correct from your point for view?

[ ] Yozora made the Club for Kodaka.

[ ] Yozora made the Club for herself.

mironicusJan 30, 2014 2:49 PM

Jan 31, 2014 11:59 AM

#103

FluffyFlesh

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Apr 2013

2087

Both.

She trusts no one but Kodaka so its kinda natural to root only for him. Meanwhile she got alot of friends and got alot to dig in........besides her personal trauma . She just wants attention from Kodaka that he doesnt give.

Anyway , I dont know why but I always end up liking this kind of character. Doesnt matter the show......I end up , somehow like that kind of girl and understand that kind of guy .

Dont forget that Kate told Kodaka her point of view and it was very different from what we see from Kodaka........that should leave you some doubts about Kodaka's PoV.
P.S: Don't forget that the story is told from Kodaka's point of view . That said I think I've told pretty much everything about what was in the anime and what is in the volume now.

"Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me

Jan 31, 2014 2:41 PM

#104

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

mironicus said:
In many ways, your opinion is the opposite of mine.

Let me ask you one question. What is correct from your point for view?

[ ] Yozora made the Club for Kodaka.

[ ] Yozora made the Club for herself.

Both. Yozora made the club because she knew that it would interest Kodaka AND because she wanted to have a chance for him to remember who she was. That the second is true has pretty much been stated from the beginning, that the former is true is shown every time Yozora listens to what Kodaka says and then does something that she really doesn't want to do in order to make him happy.

Remember Yozora actually gets sick when people look at her and when she is in a crowd. Not fake sick, but honest to god physically sick. Notice how when it was pointed out to her that she actually looked sexy on the train, she could not handle it and immediately started to wear a trainer when she went out in public. This is not an act on Yozora's part, she is not trying to get Kodaka's attention or affection by acting the way she is, she is acting that way because something happened to her (which we find out in part in this volume).

Feb 12, 2014 4:00 PM

#105

mironicus

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Jul 2012

146

FluffyFlesh said:
She just wants attention from Kodaka that he doesnt give.

Kodaka doesn't give her any attention the whole time... but why? What do you think?

Anyway , I dont know why but I always end up liking this kind of character. Doesnt matter the show......I end up , somehow like that kind of girl and understand that kind of guy .

Maybe you care about her strong wish to have a friend.

Dont forget that Kate told Kodaka her point of view and it was very different from what we see from Kodaka........that should leave you some doubts about Kodaka's PoV.

You can only rely on Kodaka's point of view. To fully understand a story you have to accept what the narrator is telling you. How he sees the other girls from his point of view - that is the only thing that matters.

Notice how when it was pointed out to her that she actually looked sexy on the train, she could not handle it and immediately started to wear a trainer when she went out in public. This is not an act on Yozora's part, she is not trying to get Kodaka's attention or affection by acting the way she is, she is acting that way because something happened to her

But what you are expecting if you know what happened to her in the past (trauma)? Yozora developed like that over the years and you can't force anyone to change their behavior.

Feb 13, 2014 2:23 PM

#106

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

mironicus said:
Kodaka doesn't give her any attention the whole time... but why? What do you think?

You are really mis-reading Kodaka and the author's intent. Of the four main girls, Kodaka gives the most attention to Yozora. Rika makes a comment on this.

mironicus said:
You can only rely on Kodaka's point of view. To fully understand a story you have to accept what the narrator is telling you. How he sees the other girls from his point of view - that is the only thing that matters.

Absolutely not, this author WANTS you to read between the lines. This is why there are so many non-verbal clues there. The whole point of Kodaka, as Rika explained, is that he pretends not to notice things in order not to get too close to people.

But what you are expecting if you know what happened to her in the past (trauma)? Yozora developed like that over the years and you can't force anyone to change their behavior.

I mentioned this point before reading the novel (and had speculated on the threads), so I am not giving anything away by saying Kodaka has no idea what happened to Yozora, if fact considering that he calls her his best friend, he knows remarkably little about her. He complains about how Yozora changed, but he never once thought about why she changed. And this isn't because he dislikes Yozora or was afraid to ask, but goes to the core of his failure as a friend. Not only does he often pretend not to notice things, he often doesn't notice things (like his rolling up his pants cuffs).

May 4, 2014 3:29 AM

#107

tuananh26376

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Apr 2014

17

@Takuan_Soho: First of all, since nobody has thanked you yet (I think), I will be the first one to thank you for your translation. I can't read Japanese and Baka-Tsuki translation is too little for me. So I'm very grateful for the informations you provide us. Also your points about Yozora are very interesting and I thought I was the only one who think that she is actually the MC more than Kodaka (ego gone :(( )
I'm a Sena fan myself but I'm not even angry that volume 9 focused on Yozora and volume 10 will too. The fact that he didn't turn Sena down makes me extremely happy :D. Very excited for the character developments and the end of Haganai. Hell, even if the ending is like Yozora gets over her trauma, so does Sena's family problems and everybody becomes friend I would be fuking happy.
Finger-crossed for season 3 and I'm hoping to see the translation for volume 10 when it came out from you. I can't wait anymore T.T

mironicus said:
In many ways, your opinion is the opposite of mine.

Let me ask you one question. What is correct from your point for view?

[ ] Yozora made the Club for Kodaka.

[ ] Yozora made the Club for herself.

Both :D

GodlyKyon said:

Rika is the only well developed girl, period.

Her personality is amazing, my third favorite girl after Kobato because I'm a siscon and she is one of the cutest imouto ever created :D

"So everything that makes me whole
Ima kimi ni sasageyou - I'm giving it all to you
I'm yours"
Supercell ~ My Dearest (Inori Yuzuriha - Guilty Crown)

May 5, 2014 9:04 PM

#108

anthony59237

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Aug 2012

243

fuck sena. that is all

May 6, 2014 1:04 PM

#109

GodlyKyon

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Sep 2011

3935

anthony59237 said:
fuck sena. that is all

She was made for just that.

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

May 8, 2014 1:00 AM

#110

FinalFlash18

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Mar 2013

1877

Everniss said:
Okay. So I'm actually shocked what I just learnt. (and sorry I'm french). I read all of your comments before replying but please... I just can't understand all this hate towards Yozora. Do you understand how much her character is amazing ? We don't really care about all the masturbating stuff. I do care about Yozora, more than the rest of this "harem" thing. I have always seen her as a true person. She's truly touching. I love her so much. I don't think she's a pervert and do believe many people are just like her. She's hated because she's real. Yozora is not the typical manga girl, wishing for the best, thinking about her club first, protecting everyone. SHE'S HUMAN. More than anyone in haganai.

She's perhaps my favorite female character since she decides to take a break at the end of the season 2. When Yozora left, I was quite sad, I never thought bad about Sena, Rika or the other girls but I found it too easy. I love the way the author takes the time to develop his characters and I guess it's the reason why many people can't get over her behavior. But she's just a young girl, scared to death by what she calls 'love'. She is lost. Do you think her first objective was to fall in love with Kodaka ? Seriously ?

The fact is all the Taka and Sora thing is the real storyline. I don't mind what you think, I'm giving you my opinion. As far as this novel will go, I'll support Yozora. I'll be okay with her fear, her depression, her selfishness. Everything.
To me she stays the most likeable character in Haganai and I just can't stand the nickname people used to gave her like "the slut" or anything.

She's a flawless imperfection.

My feelings exactly! Well said man!

May 13, 2014 7:08 AM

#111

Kumaken

Offline

Aug 2013

16

FinalFlash18 said:

Everniss said:
Okay. So I'm actually shocked what I just learnt. (and sorry I'm french). I read all of your comments before replying but please... I just can't understand all this hate towards Yozora. Do you understand how much her character is amazing ? We don't really care about all the masturbating stuff. I do care about Yozora, more than the rest of this "harem" thing. I have always seen her as a true person. She's truly touching. I love her so much. I don't think she's a pervert and do believe many people are just like her. She's hated because she's real. Yozora is not the typical manga girl, wishing for the best, thinking about her club first, protecting everyone. SHE'S HUMAN. More than anyone in haganai.

She's perhaps my favorite female character since she decides to take a break at the end of the season 2. When Yozora left, I was quite sad, I never thought bad about Sena, Rika or the other girls but I found it too easy. I love the way the author takes the time to develop his characters and I guess it's the reason why many people can't get over her behavior. But she's just a young girl, scared to death by what she calls 'love'. She is lost. Do you think her first objective was to fall in love with Kodaka ? Seriously ?

The fact is all the Taka and Sora thing is the real storyline. I don't mind what you think, I'm giving you my opinion. As far as this novel will go, I'll support Yozora. I'll be okay with her fear, her depression, her selfishness. Everything.
To me she stays the most likeable character in Haganai and I just can't stand the nickname people used to gave her like "the slut" or anything.

She's a flawless imperfection.

^ This. She's the most humane between all the girls, maybe that's why I become depressed when she go away at the last episode.

[IMG]http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b413/otamegane/RINGIFEP2/EP12/1205.gif/[IMG]

May 19, 2014 11:47 PM

#112

Treck23

Offline

May 2014

1

Takuan_Soho said:

mironicus said:
Kodaka doesn't give her any attention the whole time... but why? What do you think?

You are really mis-reading Kodaka and the author's intent. Of the four main girls, Kodaka gives the most attention to Yozora. Rika makes a comment on this.

mironicus said:
You can only rely on Kodaka's point of view. To fully understand a story you have to accept what the narrator is telling you. How he sees the other girls from his point of view - that is the only thing that matters.

Absolutely not, this author WANTS you to read between the lines. This is why there are so many non-verbal clues there. The whole point of Kodaka, as Rika explained, is that he pretends not to notice things in order not to get too close to people.

But what you are expecting if you know what happened to her in the past (trauma)? Yozora developed like that over the years and you can't force anyone to change their behavior.

I mentioned this point before reading the novel (and had speculated on the threads), so I am not giving anything away by saying Kodaka has no idea what happened to Yozora, if fact considering that he calls her his best friend, he knows remarkably little about her. He complains about how Yozora changed, but he never once thought about why she changed. And this isn't because he dislikes Yozora or was afraid to ask, but goes to the core of his failure as a friend. Not only does he often pretend not to notice things, he often doesn't notice things (like his rolling up his pants cuffs).

I've read all of your summaries from this vol. and I'm glad I did I myself am a KodakaxSena fan (don't shoot me)but I really like Yozora's character I knew I felt bad for her with her bad luck in her attempts to find happiness. I also enjoyed the character development of Rika I thought that was a pleasent surpise & I enjoyed the dynamic between her and Kodaka as they became best freinds. I have more thoughts on Sena and Rika but I'll keep it about Yozora since this and the next Vol is about her. I feel like they should've delve into her character sooner with her being the main heroine in the story. I felt that it was a little too slow for my taste but thats just me. However, now that I know she has way more baggage then we intially thought it makes me wonder how much we're gonna find out. I only watched the anime first and then went the LN's but all this time I was thinking Yozora could have a great(yet strange) best friend in Sena, of all people, someone who might be her opposite but really, they are 2 sides of the same coin. I also thought she realy was holding on to her past with "Taka" but as you pointed out there's more to it than that. I think as soon as the club members(including Kodaka) get to know more about her, some wounds could be mended and maybe some real friendships can be formed between her and the other girls.

Oct 27, 2014 6:19 AM

#113

rhymesmatter

Offline

Jun 2011

2

This is the very first harem that made me love all the characters (girls to be more precise) so i was happy that Kodaka made a choice (if you can call it that since he pretty much chickened out of a “real” relationship) and even more that it was Sena because i came to like her far more than Yozora eventhough the latter was my favorite when i started reading/watching this series. And eventhough Yozora is at fault for not openly admitting that she liked Kodaka (not sure if this would have made things any different as Kodaka stated that he fell in love with Sena in first sight) it’s SOOOOOO sad to see her self torture herself that way and even sadder that Kodaka just allows this. I can’t believe i am saying this but i just wish this love triangle could be somehow resolved , probably in a completely unrealistic , typical harem way. I just love both Sena and Yozora it’s so sad :(

Do you any of you guys think that there is any chance this will end in a Yozora x Kodaka x Sena harem style ending? (I am talking about both Novels and anime)
Or do you think there is even a chance of a Yozora x Kodaka? I do love Sena as a char but after all this char dev on Yozora i kinda feel like it would be more pleasing to end with Sena being hurt (i hate typing that though :( )

By rhymesmatter at 2011-06-10

Dec 14, 2014 2:20 PM

#114

Moichido

Offline

Mar 2013

5

tuananh26376 said:
@Takuan_Soho: First of all, since nobody has thanked you yet (I think), I will be the first one to thank you for your translation. I can't read Japanese and Baka-Tsuki translation is too little for me. So I'm very grateful for the informations you provide us. Also your points about Yozora are very interesting and I thought I was the only one who think that she is actually the MC more than Kodaka (ego gone :(( )
I'm a Sena fan myself but I'm not even angry that volume 9 focused on Yozora and volume 10 will too. The fact that he didn't turn Sena down makes me extremely happy :D. Very excited for the character developments and the end of Haganai. Hell, even if the ending is like Yozora gets over her trauma, so does Sena's family problems and everybody becomes friend I would be fuking happy.
Finger-crossed for season 3 and I'm hoping to see the translation for volume 10 when it came out from you. I can't wait anymore T.T

mironicus said:
In many ways, your opinion is the opposite of mine.

Let me ask you one question. What is correct from your point for view?

[ ] Yozora made the Club for Kodaka.

[ ] Yozora made the Club for herself.

Both :D

GodlyKyon said:

Rika is the only well developed girl, period.

Her personality is amazing, my third favorite girl after Kobato because I'm a siscon and she is one of the cutest imouto ever created :D

First of all, LOL @ where this thread ended up going after the first post :P I'm glad I read every single reply (well maybe not thankful for all the contributions ;x).

But as I just finished the anime I also wanted to take a moment for all the contributions (especially you Takuan_Soho, arigatou!), it helped me relieve a bit of the void feels for now...

@rhymesmatter I don't think it will end harem style, but I do think they will all have some sort of conclusion heavily focussed on the friend aspect. I'm a sucker for Yozora, but I wouldn't mind Rika judging by the novel 10 developments in another thread. I'm no Sena hater, but I just don't see it happening (yet), however I do wish all the best for Sena to resolve whatever issues she has.

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LOL YOZORA LOL. [novel vol.9 spoiler]

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