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#1
Jan 28, 2009 9:34 PM

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ITmedia reported an interview with Itwata Keisuke, the managing director of AT-X TV channel. He said Japanese Animation is declining after it reached the peak in 2006 and there is little hope for the growth of the anime market. Here is the chart of the sales of the anime industry from 2003 to 2007.

The reasons for the decline in the market of each region are as follows:
1. Japan
The number of the viewers of TV steeply decreased. 40% of the TV companies went into the red in September 2008. The online streaming is still too unreliable to replace the airing on TV.
2. US
The ratings of the TV anime programs went down. US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity and violent contents. Iwata described that the DVD sales in US are "miserably bad". The business model based on the TV airing collapsed because of the prevalence of fansubs.
3. Europe
The situation is relatively better than that in US but the opportunities to air anime are scarce because most of the European countries put emphasis on developing their own culture and business.
4. East & Middle East Asia
The anime market in Asian countries was expected to expand but the economic recession ruined it. Most of the anime-related projects announced by the investment authorities in the middle east suffered setbacks now.

To survive the crisis, TV Tokyo started to collaborate with Crunchyroll and provides subbed NARUTO and Gintama one hour after the airing in Japan. The $7/month pay channel collected ten thousand users in one month. TV Tokyo said they intended to discourage the fansubbers, who are competing to upload the subs first.

Source: ITmedia
Modified by dtshyk, Jan 28, 2009 9:40 PM
 
#2
Jan 28, 2009 9:37 PM

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TV Tokyo said they intended to discourage the fansubbers, who are competing to upload the subs first.

I suppose no one told them that Gintama fansubs have been over a year behind for quite some time...
 
#3
Jan 28, 2009 11:12 PM

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Plate said:
TV Tokyo said they intended to discourage the fansubbers, who are competing to upload the subs first.

I suppose no one told them that Gintama fansubs have been over a year behind for quite some time...

Yes
so skipping 50+- episodes is a stupid move
 
#4
Jan 28, 2009 11:12 PM

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This isn't really surprising. 2006 was the high point, right? Well, what's so strange about there being a decline by very early 2009? Many people outside of Japan were only newly introduced to the genre in 2006 and earlier, and thus, many older shows enjoyed great sales. Now that these have already been consumed by their audience, there's an understandable drop in viewership.
 
#5
Jan 28, 2009 11:19 PM

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Plate said:
TV Tokyo said they intended to discourage the fansubbers, who are competing to upload the subs first.

I suppose no one told them that Gintama fansubs have been over a year behind for quite some time...
rotfl, yeah...well...they win for sure this way!!!
 
#6
Jan 28, 2009 11:20 PM

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I lol'd
 
#7
Jan 29, 2009 1:19 AM

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this topic kinda scares me
 
#8
Jan 29, 2009 1:59 AM

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/me panic
 
#9
Jan 29, 2009 5:19 AM

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If this continues, maybe we'll see lower prices and higher quality anime. A good quality streaming site for the foreign market wouldn't hurt either but that's not likely to happen soon.
 
Jan 29, 2009 5:22 AM

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US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity

They mean their dubs are unpopular? Amiright?

But yeah, I'm a bit apprehensive about all of this. It's really bad if the market's going downhill but they've been saying this for the last few years. Why can't they understand that the industry needs to evolve in order to expand the market? They have enough viewers around the world, they just need to lower the price of the dvds. Plus if the dubs were higher quality then you'd see anime becoming more popular because when I've asked my friends why don't watch anime it's always along the lines of "it's too childish" and who can blame them when the best we have to offer is "believe it".

Also, not all anime is eplicitly violent. There's probably worse airing before the watershed then there is in a particularly "violent" anime series.
Modified by Kappaka, Jan 29, 2009 5:27 AM
 
Jan 29, 2009 5:26 AM

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I think this is scaremongering more than anything. The dip is pretty natural given the economic issues the world has faced in the past two years. But TV Tokyo are one of the companies who are very anti-fansub (and using BayTSP to send DMCA notices to downloaders) and since some fansubbers have said they'll stop if subs are available sooner, they're trying the streaming approach, which is still failsauce.

Also, honestly, 06 was a pretty big year for anime on numerous fronts, so the spike there may have been unnatural more than anything.
 
Jan 29, 2009 5:32 AM

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Asako said:

Also, honestly, 06 was a pretty big year for anime on numerous fronts, so the spike there may have been unnatural more than anything.

I was thinking along those lines too. Seems like alot of classics came out of that year:

Ouran High School Host Club
Blood+
Honey and Clover 2
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Strawberry Panic
Mai Otome
Full Moon wo Sagashite
Ergo Proxy
Howl's Moving Castle
Naruto was in his prime.

Alot of the series released sparked off all sorts of changes for all sorts of genres. It was an astounding year for quality anime.
 
Jan 29, 2009 5:35 AM

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Just looking at the graph hardly anything has changed outside Japan anyway. That red line barely looks like its moved.

(Random question: does 'Total sales of the anime industry' include other merchandise? Figures, games and the like? I'm tempted to believe it does, but I'm not sure. Especially because the next thing that comes to mind for me is "Hmm. What about manga tie ins?" :P)
 
Jan 29, 2009 6:01 AM

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Ephidel said:

(Random question: does 'Total sales of the anime industry' include other merchandise? Figures, games and the like? I'm tempted to believe it does, but I'm not sure. Especially because the next thing that comes to mind for me is "Hmm. What about manga tie ins?" :P)

Here is the breakdown.
 
Jan 29, 2009 6:12 AM

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Asako said:
I think this is scaremongering more than anything.


It's working on me. I didn't click on this thread cause of the thread title till i saw the last post update by dtshyk. Shit's scary.
 
Jan 29, 2009 6:14 AM

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07's figures are still a lot better than 05. I want to see 08 figures as detailed as those previous years. If 08 is worse than 07, then I may agree that it's not so good. But I seriously doubt that's the case.
 
Jan 29, 2009 7:15 AM

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LolitaDecay said:

Ergo Proxy

And I bought all those DVDs. :(
 
Jan 29, 2009 7:27 AM

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Neverender said:
I lol'd
You've come a long way, baby.
 
Jan 29, 2009 7:34 AM

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-sigh-

Suppose I ought to subscribe on Crunchyroll.

I been downloading and streaming anime for a few years, bought a few dvds here and there of course, but I guess I should have supported the market a bit more.

this article = guilt
 
Jan 29, 2009 7:48 AM

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Great things come when people are in deep shit. We may expect something interesting after this, or complete oblivion.

I would watch Gintama on CR if they had more of the first episodes there. It's one of the few series that's available in my region, anyway.
 
Jan 29, 2009 9:42 AM

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doeman said:
this topic kinda scares me


means we become more niche than we already were.
 
Jan 29, 2009 10:00 AM

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Anime is declining. They will stop investing. They will use the remaining money to produce better things and release less shit. *thumbs up*

I notice that the sales outside Japan are pretty much stable. I don't see how fansubs can, therefore, influence them. The problem is inside.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
Jan 29, 2009 10:11 AM

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one think i am going to say is that is not only the anime that is on declined this year, everything worldwide in terms of economics is going downhill. stocks, jobs, etc. this is the biggest receccion the world has ever seen in like 60 years, so is only logical that sales are going down, it would be kind of stupid if they where up



Sumeragi Kururu - Pledge Queen of Tool Toul To

 
Jan 29, 2009 10:35 AM

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LolitaDecay said:
US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity

They mean their dubs are unpopular? Amiright?


So right :D
 
Jan 29, 2009 10:36 AM

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ladyxzeus said:
Anime is declining. They will stop investing. They will use the remaining money to produce better things and release less shit. *thumbs up*
 
Jan 29, 2009 10:37 AM

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ladyxzeus said:
Anime is declining. They will stop investing. They will use the remaining money to produce better things and release less shit. *thumbs up*


I don't think they will use the remaining money to produce better things, They will use the money to outsource even more work to foreign countries, and create the most mass-appeal crap that they can in order to maximize profits instead of spending it on more creative/niche/expensive things that will not make them any money back and does not have as much merchandising potential. So expect to see even more Naruto cash cows, harems, and magical-girl-toy-selling shows.
 
Jan 29, 2009 10:44 AM

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I was kind of hoping they would want to keep producing the same quantity and, therefore, invest into short, low budget, experimental series. I guess I asked too much already.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
Jan 29, 2009 11:03 AM

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The sales in outside Japan nearly didnt change, so how is it a problem from the fansubs...
 
Jan 29, 2009 11:17 AM

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Perhaps Japanese fans are downloading the fansubs and not buying the expensive region 2 DVDs? It's not like they have to actually read the subs? Not sure :)
 
Jan 29, 2009 11:51 AM

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MagicalEmi said:
Perhaps Japanese fans are downloading the fansubs and not buying the expensive region 2 DVDs? It's not like they have to actually read the subs? Not sure :)


Ha, I'm pretty sure they just watch what we could call raws. XD

People putting stuff that's on TV on the internet is pretty international.
 
Jan 29, 2009 12:30 PM

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dtshyk said:
2. US
The ratings of the TV anime programs went down. US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity and violent contents. Iwata described that the DVD sales in US are "miserably bad". The business model based on the TV airing collapsed because of the prevalence of fansubs.


NOO D:! *rallies all dub-only fans and marches into dub companies*
 
Jan 29, 2009 1:25 PM

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MagicalEmi said:
Perhaps Japanese fans are downloading the fansubs and not buying the expensive region 2 DVDs? It's not like they have to actually read the subs? Not sure :)


they totally do that. when i lived in japan with a host family, my host father (he was 31) would always just torrent everything and watch it (which worked cuz since there was subs i could enjoy it too). Partially because some of the times the shows aired were inconvenient for him, but his other reason was "i'm poor so i can't afford the expensive dvds" which i found odd since he was a medical doctor, and his wife a lawyer, but whatever.
 
Jan 29, 2009 1:28 PM

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Plate said:
MagicalEmi said:
Perhaps Japanese fans are downloading the fansubs and not buying the expensive region 2 DVDs? It's not like they have to actually read the subs? Not sure :)


Ha, I'm pretty sure they just watch what we could call raws. XD

People putting stuff that's on TV on the internet is pretty international.


Of course they'd get raws, but I figure that the subbed versions are the ones that are distributed more widely and hosted on many more sites than raws.
 
Jan 29, 2009 1:36 PM

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I don't care too much, I've got mahjong to pass the time.
 
Jan 29, 2009 2:08 PM

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They make this sound so freaking bad, im not worried, anime is not gonna stop or anything.

and as a side note, the only reason why anime sale's in the us are so bad is because the dub's fucking suck! people are sticking to their subbed anime is all...

/disscusion


 
Jan 29, 2009 2:33 PM

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dtshyk said:
ITmedia reported an interview with Itwata Keisuke, the managing director of AT-X TV channel. He said Japanese Animation is declining after it reached the peak in 2006 and there is little hope for the growth of the anime market. Here is the chart of the sales of the anime industry from 2003 to 2007.

The reasons for the decline in the market of each region are as follows:
1. Japan
The number of the viewers of TV steeply decreased. 40% of the TV companies went into the red in September 2008. The online streaming is still too unreliable to replace the airing on TV.
2. US
The ratings of the TV anime programs went down. US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity and violent contents. Iwata described that the DVD sales in US are "miserably bad". The business model based on the TV airing collapsed because of the prevalence of fansubs.
3. Europe
The situation is relatively better than that in US but the opportunities to air anime are scarce because most of the European countries put emphasis on developing their own culture and business.
4. East & Middle East Asia
The anime market in Asian countries was expected to expand but the economic recession ruined it. Most of the anime-related projects announced by the investment authorities in the middle east suffered setbacks now.

To survive the crisis, TV Tokyo started to collaborate with Crunchyroll and provides subbed NARUTO and Gintama one hour after the airing in Japan. The $7/month pay channel collected ten thousand users in one month. TV Tokyo said they intended to discourage the fansubbers, who are competing to upload the subs first.

Source: ITmedia


First off, from the chart, it looks like they're nitpicking on the foreign market. Much of the drop and sales, and subsequent blame, comes straight from the heartland, and should be focused on as such.

A lot of the regional problems seem to stem from television broadcasting to be unsuccessful all across the board, which really begs the question, why keep it on TV anymore? The move of anime fans to the internet has been in ascension for years now and is getting ever closer to a point of saturation. Simulcast is definitely a step in the right direction, but it means nothing if you can't establish an internet status as well (HINT HINT BANDAI AND KUROKAMI).

You look at the chart and it's like, okay, they took a dip in 2007 but they're still doing better than they were in 2003. With technology in an extended state of liminality as we speak, it's safe to assume adjustments must be, and will be made to the consumer environment.
My first novel, Kardia has been published! Click here to read!
 
Jan 29, 2009 2:46 PM

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The-Last-Blaze said:
They make this sound so freaking bad, im not worried, anime is not gonna stop or anything.

and as a side note, the only reason why anime sale's in the us are so bad is because the dub's fucking suck! people are sticking to their subbed anime is all...

/disscusion

You do realize that the DVDs include a subtitled Japanese track. The reason sales are bad is people who watch fansubs never actually buy the DVDs to support the shows.
 
Jan 29, 2009 2:51 PM

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quicksilver111 said:
The-Last-Blaze said:
They make this sound so freaking bad, im not worried, anime is not gonna stop or anything.

and as a side note, the only reason why anime sale's in the us are so bad is because the dub's fucking suck! people are sticking to their subbed anime is all...

/disscusion

You do realize that the DVDs include a subtitled Japanese track. The reason sales are bad is people who watch fansubs never actually buy the DVDs to support the shows.


People don't have a lot of money to buy much of anything anymore. That's why you're seeing a lot more half-series sets and streaming options becoming available.
My first novel, Kardia has been published! Click here to read!
 
Jan 29, 2009 3:14 PM

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quicksilver111 said:
The-Last-Blaze said:
They make this sound so freaking bad, im not worried, anime is not gonna stop or anything.

and as a side note, the only reason why anime sale's in the us are so bad is because the dub's fucking suck! people are sticking to their subbed anime is all...

/disscusion

You do realize that the DVDs include a subtitled Japanese track. The reason sales are bad is people who watch fansubs never actually buy the DVDs to support the shows.
Most people who don't buy anything should not really be considered as a 'lost sale' since they don't affect the sales anyway, if they couldn't get it for free they just wouldn't get it.
I'm watching around 10 weekly shows at the moment, if fansubs didn't exist I wouldn't be watching them since no other options exist. Will I buy any of them on DVD? I have no idea, it will be based on rewatch value, price and availability. If I could pay non-obscene prices for the priviledge of downloading them I would pay for most of them.
Then again, I'm part of the 'Outside Japan' group, the Japanese producers most likely don't give a shit about us or our money since our sales amount to less than 10% of the total sales, the decline in the domestic market was larger than that.

tl;dr: This does not concern the people from 'Outside Japan'.
 
Jan 29, 2009 3:17 PM

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Aw c'mon...

I buy all those DVDs but since no else is helping the anime companies feel like they aren't selling. That's not good. :(
 
Jan 29, 2009 5:48 PM

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fail
Hello!
 
Jan 30, 2009 5:21 AM

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DVDs: simply too expensive. Too many to buy, and too much merchandising filler garbage (like "starter set" boxes) inflating prices.

Xam'd for rental via Sony's PSN at a total of $104. Way, way, way too expensive, even for a purchase, let alone a downloadable rental. (Great as it is.)

The anime industry needs to get a clue. Maybe this will be a catalyst.

Sounds like TV Tokyo has the right idea, at least.

If anything, Japanese animation will go on as an artform, and we can hope that this will ultimately kill off a lot of the garbage that plagues it. When artists struggle, they tend to do better work, you know? Show us what you're made of, and think about how you're packaging and selling it. I'm an adult -- I don't need a bunch of gaudy boxes and figures and crap on my shelves.

Just speculation here, but the lolicon/moé garbage has been seriously on the rise for the last several years. Anyone else think maybe normal people with respectable tastes get disgusted with trash like this and lose interest?

Also: sorry, English-speaking voice actors, but we don't need you. Dubs are for fools. They are a waste of time and money, and if viewers can't be arsed to read subtitles then maybe they should go pick their noses and stare at something shiny for a while instead. Anyway, what she said:

LolitaDecay said:
US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity

They mean their dubs are unpopular? Amiright?


Time to evolve.
Modified by META_BODY, Jan 30, 2009 5:24 AM
 
Jan 30, 2009 6:57 AM

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antitype said:
DVDs: simply too expensive. Too many to buy, and too much merchandising filler garbage (like "starter set" boxes) inflating prices.

Xam'd for rental via Sony's PSN at a total of $104. Way, way, way too expensive, even for a purchase, let alone a downloadable rental. (Great as it is.)

The anime industry needs to get a clue. Maybe this will be a catalyst.

Sounds like TV Tokyo has the right idea, at least.

If anything, Japanese animation will go on as an artform, and we can hope that this will ultimately kill off a lot of the garbage that plagues it. When artists struggle, they tend to do better work, you know? Show us what you're made of, and think about how you're packaging and selling it. I'm an adult -- I don't need a bunch of gaudy boxes and figures and crap on my shelves.

Just speculation here, but the lolicon/moé garbage has been seriously on the rise for the last several years. Anyone else think maybe normal people with respectable tastes get disgusted with trash like this and lose interest?

Also: sorry, English-speaking voice actors, but we don't need you. Dubs are for fools. They are a waste of time and money, and if viewers can't be arsed to read subtitles then maybe they should go pick their noses and stare at something shiny for a while instead. Anyway, what she said:

LolitaDecay said:
US TV companies are now reluctant to air Japanese animation due to its unpopularity

They mean their dubs are unpopular? Amiright?


Time to evolve.


One of the few sensible posts in this topic.

As mentioned before, anime sales hit an all-time high in 2006, so why is a drop-off in the next few years a big surprise, especially considering the economic recession? Plus, in 2006, I would imagine that a great deal of sales included older shows that new fans were discovering for the very first time, whether it be Cowboy Bebop, Bersker, FMA, whatever.

That's no longer the case.

Personally, I've only bought one anime DVD, but I wouldn't be opposed to buying more if they were packaged correctly, and had a reasonable price tag. For example, if they released the 13 episode DMC DVD for $20, I would purchase it.

Not counting the OP and ED, each episode is about 12 minutes long, or 2 hours and 36 minutes in total. So it's essentially a slightly longer movie DVD. Twenty dollars would be reasonable.

Offering an OVA or movie for anywhere from $10-$20 is a reasonable deal to the consumer. But an extremely long series priced at about $5 per episode is pure idiocy, and anyone over the age of 12 will laugh and watch the free version on his or her computer instead.
 
Jan 30, 2009 8:09 AM

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Agreed on the DVD prices. Most of the american imports which are available here are have ridiculously high prices (well now them being an import and all obviously makes them a bit more expensive, but even considering that, the prices are still too high).

European publishers seem to be on the right road though, most 4-5 episode DVDs just cost around 7-8 euros which is still a bit expensive, but definately acceptable. The real problem is that there's a very limited selection of region 2 coded subbed series(and in my cases sometimes swedish subs, which I don't really like). So people download the series instead....regioncoding the streams doesn't help either >_<
 
Jan 31, 2009 2:05 PM

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If the stuff is good, people will buy. If the stuff is decent, putting a large price tag kills it. If the stuff is shit, no matter what price tag you put on it, nobody will buy it.

They need to seriously stop thinking about money hogging.

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Feb 1, 2009 12:02 PM

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antitype said:
DVDs: simply too expensive.


So very true. Though I like some dubs, they just aren't worth $20 for 60 minutes. Which is why I buy my anime DVDs from secondhand stores. I can always get a decent deal, and haven't paid over $9 for 60 minutes of anime in 3 years.

Not to say that outside-Japan sales have been in a serious decline, beyond what one would expect from the overall economic decline (entertainment goods=highly elastic demand). Fansubs are but a bogeyman in the grand scheme of these things.
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Feb 1, 2009 1:30 PM

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I only bought 1 set of DVDs and that was back in 2006. They are simply too expensive!

o.O
 
Feb 1, 2009 6:35 PM

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well if the reason is ppl can't aford to buy anime the problem is that they put out to much anime they brought out 5 titles i like on dvds and i could only aford maybe 150 bucks worth and 5 titles are worth maybe 200 bucks depends how much its sold for. there are animes that i buy but can only get a few at a time its sad that i have to miss out on few anime where i am 20 behind D:
 
Feb 2, 2009 5:31 AM

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I don't see any decline in the Asian market, or from what I saw on my trip to Taipei >.>
Anime stores were CROWDED on weekends.
 
Feb 2, 2009 7:58 AM

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antitype said:
Also: sorry, English-speaking voice actors, but we don't need you. Dubs are for fools. They are a waste of time and money, and if viewers can't be arsed to read subtitles then maybe they should go pick their noses and stare at something shiny for a while instead.
Should we read subtitles for every little thing now? Maybe we should just go back to the days of silent movies, with no TV's so that everything we might possibly watch has to be subtitled. I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest thing I have heard from a person who is "Subtitles only!" To call all dub watchers retard noise pickers (which is basically what you did) is uncalled for.

Now that's said, the anime industry can't stop feeding the mass of otaku that already support them, but while they are feeding those masses, they need to bring to the forefront of each new season something that will draw in people who may not actively watch the titles that otaku will. We already know that Magical girls shows, harem shows (whether perverted or otherwise), and shows that will try to bank off the popularity of Naruto, Bleach and One Piece will happen, but they need to continue to show us that these aren't the only shows they have under their belts.
Modified by Jelise, Feb 4, 2009 7:51 AM
 
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