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Poll: Koi Kaze Episode 13 Discussion


Mar 26, 2012 12:49 PM

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I just finished it yesterday and really enjoyed it - I gave it an 8. Obviously the subject is a little hard for some people to swallow and move on, but I didnt mind it myself. If you look deeper than that it's really a nice love story. The art style isnt great imo but other than that I thought it was really good and handled in a mature way.

Also, a little OT but to the person who compared homosexuality to incest: thats not the same thing. I dont judge anyone about who they want to love, but obviously incest is more questionable.

PS I think that judging this anime based on personal morals is unfair.
 
Apr 15, 2012 6:38 AM
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I just finished watching this anime for the third time. I saw it first around 2005, again in 2008 (relative dates) and just a few nights ago. I have to say, I really love this anime. It's quite powerful at times, some of the situations are so intense and it was very enlightening to see how I reacted to them over the years. I'm 21 years old this month. When I first watched it, I was in and around Nanoka's age, and just like her at the time, I didn't understand why everyone was making a fuss over them being in love. I felt like everyone was just being close-minded and they should let them live all happily ever after. Oh how naive I was.
But this time around, I swear I couldn't have felt any more devastated by episode 12 O_O What...was...that. Really couldn't believe they actually did it.

I also think there's a lot more symbolism than people seem to realise in the final episode. I honestly never even caught on to the whole tree-cutting or park being closed as symbolism until I read the posts in here (derp) but I did realise a whole lot of other stuff.

Nanoka and Koshiro play in the mud - I think this means a lot more than it seems. I think Nanoka falling in the mud is symbolism for her 'falling’ for Koshiro, and after it she is muddy or 'tainted/stained'. She then gets Koshiro 'dirty' too by throwing mud at him, as in making him fall in love with her. They're both dirty and slinging mud at each other and everyone is looking at them with non approving expressions... symbolising that nobody will accept them doing such things together.

I don't know what the kid giving Koshiro the drink meant (with the love-heart in it no less) but it could mean that there are a few people out there (the young/naive) who would accept the two as lovers.

Here's the biggest thing I noticed though. Waiting for the park to be closed for the night shows they've now entered a 'dark world' so to speak. All the rides are off and nobody is around. Nothing will work as usual like it would in the daytime... they're in a world of their own but they have each other. Nanoka says she's okay with the rides even though they don't move like they would in the morning because she even goes on that spinning ride and makes it work and be fun (for her at least) without it needing to be on the way it is for other people... which I think it may also mean she's okay living a life as Koshiro's lover even if things will never be the same again - but she doesn't think that about everything. She remarks about how the ferris wheel is not right, and it should be moving. Possibly meaning that there are some things she really wants to be working as normal in her life. So they pray... they hope - that's all they can do. And it's no use... they pray for a while with no results except of course for that slight movement in the wheel... which could mean that they can still have some sort of normality... that perhaps with a lot of focus and dedication, they can make things work out for them... even if only a little bit. They may be in the dark with nobody around them to relate to, on rides that don’t work, covered in mud and tainted forever... but they have each other. I think the longer camera shots of the park showing them together with nothing else around really expresses that

Well, I know it's really taking the ball and running with it, all that speculation - but that's just what I interpreted from that episode. Does the closing of the park and the removal of the trees that they carved their names into mean their romance won't last? Or that outside forces and other people will tear them down, but they will still return there year after year no matter what? It's really an open ending... and it's maddening to me that there's no closure. I really don't have an opinion on what actually happens after that. Despite all the symbolism, it suggests it both ways - So I can't decide if they really do live happily together forever after or not - and that really gets to me emotionally which of course is the point of this anime and it does it very well.

I feel really sad for Nanoka, growing distant from her friends (who were starting to catch on to the incest) and of course, her childhood ending in episode 12 Q_Q So sad, despite her saying she was okay and happy to be with Koshiro, there’s just a really default sadness to that situation. The shot where she’s covered in the blankets looking at Koshiro. NOPE. I could barely handle that scene. I feel kinda angry at Koshiro for that bit, too. I mean, I know Nanoka was saying yes to it, but did she really want it? Somehow I doubt she was the one who actually asked or initiated it :l Not saying that such a thing was impossible, she very well might have equally initiated it with Koshiro... but it just doesn’t fit her personality or behaviour from anywhere else in the entire anime... except of course for the times she keeps saying she’s ‘not so innocent’ >_> Oh lord. I don’t even want to think about it anymore XD

So yeah, one of my favourite animes. Will probably watch again and again for years to come. Always up for talking about it to others who have seen it. Endless discussion can be conjured from this anime which is a really good thing about it.
 
Apr 16, 2012 4:15 PM
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How can some people say that they hated it, out of all the crap of violence this should be in the top 10 anime along with Clannad After Story & Air!! Superb
 
May 6, 2012 9:01 PM

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Ending was meh. I would have liked to see what happened when or if they became a couple, because it would have been tragic.

Chidori was the best part of this anime; what a beast.
 
May 16, 2012 8:44 AM

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Overall a very good series. 7/10

I don't think they were really "in-love" with each other really. Nanoko was basically obsessed with the notion of having an older brother that it felt like her feelings just got jumbled up and confused (see also: puberty). While Koshiro I think admired her innocence and her readiness to love someone/something seeing as he apparently didn't know how to according to his ex. Although I think it really helped that their feelings didn't seem so genuine to me as it actually seemed like a probable scenario in real life.

Chidori was such a bro in the later episodes, she even gave him an opportunity to end it. Earlier in the series I actually thought Koshiro and her might end up being a couple by the end of it since his initial attraction to his sister was more sexual rather than emotional and there was hints that she somewhat cared about him.

That scene were Nanoko asks Koshiro if they're going to kill themselves wow, I really thought they were going through with it. It would have been a better ending too, seeing as the series were already breaking boundaries it would have been fitting to have such an ending, in my opinion. It probably would have ended up in my top favourites had it happened.
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May 29, 2012 2:35 AM
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If there's one thing I can commend this show about, it's that it certainly had a lot of guts to portray incest so seriously. Still, the cheerful ending was...well...maybe too easily obtained or something. I'm not really sure. From the other shows that I've seen, they poke fun at incest, or even go all the way, but they would usually focus too much on the actual taboo than what the characters actually feel. Regardless, I do respect this show for its seriousness, but the ending still didn't feel 100% right...
 
Jun 6, 2012 2:35 PM

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Absolutely awesome anime about Incest....

Story is very well written and Characters feels and act natural.... Why the hell this anime rated so low.... Moral fags I guess....

Anyway this anime gets a solid 9/10 from me...
 
Jul 16, 2012 4:18 PM
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Nicely done anime on touchy subject. I suspect incest is much more common than people realize, because no one is going to admit to it. The ending was interesting and open to interpretation. It would be almost impossible to live together as a couple because of the hurt they would cause their parents not to mention the reaction from friends. The logical solution is to just act as loving siblings in their daily lives (there is nothing wrong with siblings being close,right?) And getting together in private to express their love.
 
Jul 23, 2012 5:00 AM

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its 5 am i was watching this all night...my eyes were like this one second ._. but when she said "should we commit lovers suicide?" my eyes went like O_O......
 
Aug 17, 2012 7:00 PM

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Good romance series tbh despite the incest taboo theme.

A sweet and emotional series.

 
Nov 7, 2012 4:10 PM
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Kept thinking he was going to kill himself, but I guess this works out too. =p
 
Jan 12, 2013 5:20 AM
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I re-saw the series again and re-read the manga aswell.
First time i saw (almost 8 years ago) i was a teenager and now i'm adult i never taught this series ending would shock me !
The last episode is one the sad ones and its full of symbolism that in manga don't exist!

In this past years i saw so much anime that i forgot how some animes are.. how true animes are.
About the story itself: the life is what it is. i could try to see it with my moral thinking but doing that is just alienating.
Few animes takes my sleep time, and this one is one.
 
Jan 31, 2013 2:55 AM

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I wondered why incest was illegal. I though it was because to diversify our races. I didn't knew it also caused birth defects. learning new thing everyday! I think its the first time I saw a character name that is exactly the same (Kaname Chidori on FMP! and Koi Kaze).

- Need a more specific ending! It ended on the best part. Elope? Suicide? Give up? Sequel?
+ Incest story on the serious side. None of those ecchi crap.
- White mouths. How hard it is to color them in?
- ED theme was one of the worst theme songs i've ever heard. the other sound designs pretty average.
+ Nanoka's seiyuu did a tremendous job. Give the woman more roles!
+ Great story progression.
+ Chikan.

Toothbrush 'stache out of 10.
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Mar 16, 2013 9:16 AM
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did she start the season as a 14 yr old or 15yr old because she has a birthday during the session nd if tht was her being 16 it makes the age not much of an issue tho if tht was true she seemed very naive for someone of tht age.

i think that the season ends with them becoming just a brother and sister because they wave good bye to each other and act more like brother and sister at this point than a couple.

i disliked when they started to think of killing them selves that rlly wouldnt solve anything and wld jst end with two dead people. i was in favour of them running away together though that would have hurt there family greatly so keeping it secret would make more sense but when they get found out things would probably be worse

overall 8/10 the art let the anime down i don't understand why there is so much detail in the character and then some 2 yr old has drawn a white blob for a mouth if they animated the show better im sure it wld have been 10/10 and the show wld have more emotion
 
Mar 25, 2013 9:54 AM

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I'm amazed, jet morally disgusted. Obviously I do have a threshold for what I'm able to watch, and this show draws the line...
 
May 5, 2013 3:36 PM
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Aghhhh!!! i hate open endings, still was a great run, 9/10.
Also, if you pay enough attention it looks like it ended there, why ?
because earlier on their father, i believe (though correct me if im wrong) had signed the area to reconstruction and the sakura trees are to be removed, seems to me like a underlying message that that was it, also backed up by the fact that they seemingly didn't want to nor gave up their past lives, aside from koshiro quiting his job, i guess in their mind they will see eachother every spring but realistically speaking, it probably means that they accepted the boundaries that society draws and eventually all that would be left of that would be a loving memory or something like that.
actually just read the manga last chapters, appearntly they modified the ending, but the conclusion seems to be the same, although more ambiguous, anyway in the manga rather than the ''sakura trees street'' or w.e being torn down it's the amusement park that's closing, in the manga they both confess their love to eachother directly, also koshiro decided to never get married, which in turn means he somewhat ''married'' his sister in a sense that she's his only one ever or that kind of bs lol so they promise to meet despite their ''memento'' the amusement park enclosure, the end.
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May 6, 2013 3:07 AM

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This anime is definitely one that I will remember. It gets a 10/10.

I was hooked when I first saw the sparks of love between the two on the ferris wheel. The way they did the scenes really brought out a lot of emotions from me. It was pretty different from the usual anime. The soundtrack was great! It seemed to perfectly match the scenes.

I believe that Koshiro and Nanoka continue their relationship. The symbolism throughout the last episode seemed to me, to represent the trials or hardships of their love, emphasizing what Koshiro said in an earlier episode, "As long as I have you with me, I don't need anything else."

I would definitely be up for a sequel of this amazing anime.
 
Jul 17, 2013 10:58 AM

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I thought that their promise to see each other once a year when the cherry blossoms were blooming was very interesting. Earlier in the series, Nanoka mentioned that when she met Koshiro, she noticed the cherry blossoms for the first time. I think that their promise is symbolic to how they would always remember when their feelings first started springing to life.

(Just my interpretation) - It was a bittersweet ending, they continued to love each other but decided that it was best for them to go their own ways, only meeting once a year to celebrate the start of their love.

I know many people keep saying this relationship was wrong or immoral, but honestly I believe that the bigger point is that they were in agony and suffering by trying to fight their feelings. The moment they finally accepted those feelings and became open about loving each other, they were able to finally be freed of guilt, pain, and sadness. That entire scene with them in the park playing in the mud really shows how happy they were as a result of finally breaking the taboo and staying true to their hearts.

I went into this series expecting nothing special but it really did an outstanding job at testing taboos and asking the question - does love know no bounds? Overall this gets an 8 or 9/10 from me, this is a memorable story.
 
Aug 11, 2013 2:29 PM
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This post is quite lengthy so feel free to skip all the way down to the TLDR section at the bottom for the cliff notes if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing.

Koi Kaze is one of the most remarkable show's I've ever watched in that it has kept me in thought for days about morality and society. When I first watched the show about 9 years ago I was a fresh college grad and while I thought the show itself was great and entertaining, I still thought it was awkward and weird because of the subject matter. Fast forward to present day where a much more open minded and less judgemental me has just watched Koi Kaze again. I still think the show is great and entertaining, but am no longer weirded out by the incest theme. In fact it has prompted me to re-evaluate my personal morals and my view of incest.

Last week if you asked me if incest was wrong I would have answered "Yes" without giving it much thought. Today, if you asked me the same question, I would have to say that "It depends".

After watching the show again I came here to find people discussing the show and the ending. I learned about a phenomenon called "Genetic Sexual Attraction" which makes the story in Koi Kaze much more believeable. A quick google search for GSA returns this wikipedia result:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

In it, it states that: "Genetic sexual attraction (GSA) is sexual attraction between close relatives, such as siblings or half-siblings, a parent and offspring, or first and second cousins, who first meet as adults."

and also "Genetic sexual attraction is presumed to occur as a consequence of genetic relatives meeting as adults, typically as a consequence of adoption. Although this is a rare consequence of adoptive reunions, the large number of adoptive reunions in recent years means that a larger number of people are affected.[5] If a sexual relationship is entered, it is known as incest."

So just by knowing this, it is apparent that our protagonists Koshiro and Nanoka's love for eachother is much more plausible. They are quite literally "screwed" by biology. It is much harder to condemn their actions knowing that they are victims of this phenomenon.

So if they can't control their love for each other is it really so bad if they choose to act upon those feelings? A parallel can be drawn between this and homosexual love in that, in both cases, the people in question cannot choose who they love. Love is not a choice. Love chooses you, not the other way around. Even today there are people who think homosexual love is wrong, but as a society we are starting to accept homosexuality. Incest, on the other hand is still widely unacceptable in just about every culture.

Now while homosexuality has very few dangers that I can think of, incest has a very serious danger in the form of inbreeding. Looking up inbreeding returns the following possible defects in offspring:

"Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[7] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:
Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
Increased genetic disorders
Fluctuating facial asymmetry
Lower birth rate
Higher infant mortality
Slower growth rate
Smaller adult size
Loss of immune system function"

Looking at this list it's clear that inbreeding has less than desireable results. And this is the main reason homosexual love doesn't bother me at all, but incestual love does. Homosexual lovers have no offspring problems. Not like they can have offspring with eachother anyway. But an incestual couple will likely reproduce, which is ultimately bad from a scientific standpoint.

This is why the answer to my original question "Is incest wrong?" equals "It depends". If the incestual couple is smart and knows the dangers of inbreeding, and chooses not to reproduce, then I would have to say there's nothing wrong with that. They can't help that they love each other, so we might as well let them love each other without condemning thier actions. However as soon as an incestual couple starts to reproduce I would say that is wrong. It is irresponsible of them to reproduce when it means the child is likely to have serious birth defects.

I would like to end this post by saying again that Koi Kaze is such an amazing show because it has changed the way I think. No longer do I think incest is a great evil as long as the couple refrains from inbreeding. The potential for inbreeding is strong, so I still think people should avoid incest, but it is otherwise tolerable as long as they don't reproduce. They are not hurting anyone after all and they didn't choose to fall in love. Very few shows have had such an effect on my view of the world. Koi Kaze is incredible.





TLDR: Koi Kaze has made me change my stance on incest. Incest in general is wrong because of the dangers of inbreeding. However, if the the incestuous couple knows of the dangers and chooses not to reproduce, then it is tolerable. They are just a couple who can't help but love each other and should be left alone.
 
Aug 16, 2013 8:33 AM

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E-Licious said:


Couldn't have said this better myself. But because of my fiercely open mind, I didn't find the incest that off-putting/bothering in the first place when I went into this series.
 
Aug 21, 2013 9:10 PM

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So I did enjoy this series very much. The beginning was little slow and felt as if their relationship was not justified by love - at least I didn't get that feeling. It isn't until much later (I think around episode 9 or so) that it became believable for me. As I said before, I'm glad they showed them together and blatantly pointed out they had sex as well. I'm not going to go into my whole stance on incest since it's irrelevant to the story.

This series does a good job in not only showing how difficult it can be to even consider this kind of relationship as well as how society finds it. Chidori's character is a great representation of the latter. However, she handled what Koshiro was doing actually very well and that was a nice surprise. I think Koshiro's words from before about misery struck a chord with her.

Even though they left the end "open", I think that their relationship will not last due to the allegory of the sakura trees. They make a promise to return next spring to see them but this will probably go unfulfilled since the trees will be cut down - including the one they wrote their names on.
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Sep 1, 2013 8:46 AM

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Very much potential that was wasted all over the place.
In all 13 episodes basically nothing happened. While the dilemma of both MCs was portrayed decent enough there's still some kind of impact missing.
Koshiro felt way too one dimensional and the whole story was more or less falling together than leading somewhere, it was all too conveniently done.
Such a shame, 6/10.
 
Sep 8, 2013 2:24 PM
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nantuko said:
Very much potential that was wasted all over the place.
In all 13 episodes basically nothing happened. While the dilemma of both MCs was portrayed decent enough there's still some kind of impact missing.
Koshiro felt way too one dimensional and the whole story was more or less falling together than leading somewhere, it was all too conveniently done.
Such a shame, 6/10.

Agreed this was the handbook example of a disappointing anime.... All the problems presented nice & well & NO resolution, nothing solved or the resolve to do so. Honestly I'm mostly disappointed in Koshiro, the guy is a man child like seriously both the leads are at the exact same mental level exept 1 is 15 when the other is like 27. Which makes Koshiro probably the worse male lead out there especially since the only development he had was that "he became happy". Throughout the whole anime I kept screaming at the guy to man up & DO STH (other that running) or stop being an asshole... To sum it up OreImo handled the issue WAY BETTER, it was less realistic but still OreImo did it better & had a better lead. And when your lead in his late 20's feels less mature than a teen character you clearly failed at sth... BTW that "ending" .. J-just LOL that was so uneventful/anticlimactic that its kinda hilarious
 
Sep 11, 2013 7:01 PM

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This was an amazing series. I marathoned this and I don't regret it except I cant watch anymore episodes.
 
Sep 13, 2013 1:08 AM

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I finally watched it and finished it after many months of pondering if I should pick this up off of someone's recommendation. And I got to say, I'm not disappointed. It was a solid show. Incest pre-Koi Kaze and maybe even pre-last episode of Oreimo was pretty funny to watch and at times made me a bit envious but with Koi Kaze, especially episode 11, everything felt a bit too 'real'. It just goes to show, something like incest would never really work in the long run in reality. And even if it does, it's just too weird for my taste. Nonetheless, this show came across well written and thought out. It had very realistic characters (to an extent) with realistic emotions. So for that I give it a 7/10 as it was a 'good' anime but the beginning half of the show annoyed me enough to the point where I can't give it an 8/10.
 
Oct 1, 2013 6:59 PM

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Outstanding ending to one of the best and most realistically heartfelt anime's ive ever seen
10 out of 10! :)
 
Oct 1, 2013 6:59 PM

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Outstanding ending to one of the best and most realistically heartfelt anime's ive ever seen
10 out of 10! :)
 
Oct 20, 2013 5:15 PM

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...I wish it was shown how the relationship works out down the road.

Good series, although it left me a bit sad...
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Dec 13, 2013 10:13 AM
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Slayermaster said:
...I wish it was shown how the relationship works out down the road.

Good series, although it left me a bit sad...


a lot of speculation but theres little doubt that they continued their relationship. they pretty much demonstrated throughout the series that cant live without each other
 
Jan 13, 2014 9:51 PM

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Did he ... just like a drink a cup of mud?!

And he didn't even twitch or react to it lol.
 
Jan 22, 2014 10:11 AM
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So let me get this straight, Nanoka and Koshiro will not see each other except for that one day in Spring where they promise to see each other. I like how they peacefully let their relationship go, and how Koshiro did not let his sexual desire get the best of him. However, since both placed their names under an umbrella and on a tree how will the father react if he sees that. I believe their relationship won't last, and that Nanoka's father when he learns the truth will take her away far from him. Nanoka once she turns the adult age will go in search of Koshiro where they will finally be able to love each other without the worry of her father telling her what to do as she will be an adult.

10/10
Beautiful story, taboo yes, but very emotional, and realistic.

 
Jan 23, 2014 6:10 PM

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Cute ending of this series and well I enjoyed this series, even though the main concept is Incest it was still a quite lovely romance anime to be honest!

It sure was lovely just to see the development of those two! All by all a quite lovely anime! 8/10
 
Feb 14, 2014 4:18 AM

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1. koshiro failed her sister and family. eventually, they're gonna have to tell their relationship to their parents.

2. series has lot of guts portraying a taboo as acceptable only if u love it so much.

3. i didn't like the ending at all. it just left me alone wondering about what will happen next.

-------------------------------
9/10 for portraying something that might happen in real life

1/10 for koshiro's failure as a big brother

u don't do in ur sister. period.
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Feb 14, 2014 6:23 AM

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billybob300c said:

3. i didn't like the ending at all. it just left me alone wondering about what will happen next.

-------------------------------


I think this type of anime with taboo theme must open end so that viewer can decide whether it is wright or wrong from his perspective . I dont know which was more awkard , him having sex with his sister or koshiro falling in love with a girl 15 year younger .
 
Feb 25, 2014 2:57 PM

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Alot of misnomers being spewed left and right, which is disappointing, and is undoubtedly part of the reason this Gem has a criminally low rating.

First- Nanoko is 15 at the start, turns 16 in the initial episodes with her birthday party. In the manga they don't have sex till she is like 17 or so, but lets go with the anime 16. Koshiro is roughly 12 years older, so lets say 27-28. The vast majority of the world has a legal age of consent at 16 or less, including the majority of states in America. In 1880 in America the age of consent for most states was 10, with the low being 7 and the high being 12. What's important for the show is age of consent in Japan, which is 13, namely way below the age of the main heroine. If most people here haven't witnessed relationships between late teens 16/17ish and people in their mid to late 20's then they are either living under a rock or are Hikikomori (I have nothing against Hiki, but surely we would agree that is a valid reason to not have interacted with a scope of age gap relationships and hence rendering their input and protests questionable at best). Equally important is that "The Civil Code of Japan restricts family marriages, but the act of incest itself is not a crime. Incest law was abolished there in 1881."So legally there is NOTHING WRONG with the pairing in the show. Morally and Socially is another matter, but the anime tackles the latter realistically well in the show.

The second misconception here is delusions run wild, namely concluding that somehow their relationship ended or that at the very least it was an open ending. I'm not sure how else the show could have conveyed that they were together and were willing to plunge through the turmoil and trails that their love would have to withstand. Did the final scene need to be them doing something sexual for you people to conclude they were still together??? Did the previous episode's frollicking in the sheets not satisfy your perception that they were together?? This is especially embarrassing, since these same people highly rate and favorite drivel like Toradora, Kimi-Ni-Todoke and hordes of other Shoujo "romance", where if the main characters even kiss its bordering on miraculous, scandalous, and nay unprecedented in one fell swoop. Even the greats like Clannad After Story have at most a hug, which is the anime's equivalent of an orgy. What else did you need here? Kids? Even then you would have complaints im sure, though I suspect for other reasons.

Koshiro finally saying he loves Nanoko (even if she didn't hear THAT time), and them planning future dates in the future is clearly a sign that they plan to aim for the long haul. Why did she walk back? Hello their temporary "Solution" is to keep things as is, allowing her to live with their Father, to finish High School, and go on with their ordinary lives. The key and obvious element is to keep it largely secret, and in order to do that they aren't getting into any confrontation off the bat with the father, who would surely eventually get suspicious if she kept staying over Onii-Chan's place.

People seem to be "experts" on supposed symbolism that implies they aren't planning to be together anymore. First of all this symbolism can easily be construed as recognition that things will be tough and trails will come in their way to try to knock them down. The supposed "proofs" (lol..) with things like the trees being cut isn't even applicable to the Canon Manga Source, where Koshiro says "I heard they are going to cut the trees" and Nanoka replies "does not matter, we will come back even if the trees would be gone". All the imaginary symbolism isn't even prevalent in the manga, further weakening these senseless claims. The final and most glaringly obvious thing is that the anime has been very upfront with the emotions and feelings of the characters to this point, since the producers were allowed to go fullout without censoring the impact as opposed to questionable censored endings like Ore No Imouto. To suggest that somehow offscreen they magically decided to stop being lovers even though the near necessity of them being together was made apparent is absurd at best. You fools seem to want an anime version cop out like Ore No Imouto's Kirino whispering to Kyousuke "Lets only do this for a few days/weeks and then return to being 'normal siblings' ". Nothing of the sort is even remotely implied to have happened here, and to suggest that it did for a show that has Masterfully conquered all barriers is pure insanity.

The only thing that has a smidgen of truth to it is that it has an "Open Ending" in the sense that they didn't have some full blown plan (perhaps people think they need to get married for some reason, eventhough Marriage is a religious ritual ordained by G-d, and has nothing to do with homosexual and incestual relationships. This is clearly not their goal, nor a legally viable option for them, so its completely irrelevant). What this imaginary plan entails THE MAIN CHARACTERS DON'T KNOW, they are HUMAN and in a difficult relationship, if you expect some magical ending or some dragon ball wishes then go watch other shows FFS. Clearly they are gonna try and ride out the storm and keep it secret and suffer the consequences, skepticism, and derision along the way, presumably ideally to be able to live together one day. If you want some haxed as balls AFTER STORY go watch fucking Clannad (it is great btw, but absolutely unnecessary for this strictly superior Masterpiece).

That garbage aside, I was worried that something tragic would happen, largely due to seeing a Tragedy label for it on a torrent site. The suicidal NHK style thought train had me in dread, not due to it potentially tarnishing the ending, because it wouldn't necessarily, but rather due to the emotional impact being nay unbearable for me if that were to occur.

All in all a True Elite Masterpiece that has temporarily knocked out Yu Yu Hakusho from my 5th and final Favorite spot, after holding that position for years.

Also feel free to take a look at my actual Review for the anime which doesn't focus on the hate/gripes/complaints, but rather the strengths of the Masterpiece
Modified by SlickDragon, Feb 25, 2014 5:47 PM
 
Mar 23, 2014 6:12 AM

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Pindakaas40 said:
DeathfireD said:

something I found interesting. The workers at the park where mentioning that the trees should be cut down. Nanoka and Koshiro write their names under an umbrella on one of the trees. Is this a subliminal message to us hinting that their relationship wont last? It felt like it, I mean why would they toss that chunk of info at us if it didn't mean something?


Aaaaah shimata! you have a point there. For the sake of my own happiness, I will choose the happy ever after option though.

To be honest, the age difference I found harder to digest than being siblings... It's not like they grew up together. Plus, they fell in love before they knew they were siblings!
Or maybe it's just because I don't have any siblings myself :P


If they are cutting that tree that's going to be really sad. But, just think of it like this: Society will try to stop their relationship, but it will be always up to them to keep fighting or give up.
 
May 26, 2014 4:03 PM

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I was hoping for the mother or father to eventually tell them that somehow they aren't blood related (could explain why the divorce), and then they could happily continue their "love", although that would still be awkard 12 years apart.

Anyhow, anime was pretty average, it did succeed in making it feel more than most shows about brother-sister relationship would, but it failed on so many other levels, including story telling and so on.
 
Jun 24, 2014 11:45 PM

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Koshiro failed as adult and brother. He couldn't get his shit together and this happened.
As for Nanoka, she's still a stupid little girl. This whole "I eternally love my brother" deal will be over within 2-5 years and she will move on... As for her brother, he will have his hopes shattered as a 30 something year old failure without a wife or kids, drink a lot of sake, and be very depressed.
This love has no future. This is the reality.

Huge props to this anime for having the cojones to touch on such a delicate matter that I'm pretty sure is real and many people go through...

8/10.
 
Jul 2, 2014 7:02 PM

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I had a quick read of the manga and there's some stuff in there that never made it into the anime. Probably most important was that Koshiro visits his mum after her admits his feelings to Nanoka and tells her that he will remain a bachelor for life but admits there is someone he likes. The mother is left feeling very suspicious. Then at the culture festival both parents attend and they have a family dinner for the first time since they were divorced and everyone is very happy. At the end of the night the mother gives both Koshiro and Nanoka a concerned look. Anyway a day or two later the mother is talking to Nanoka on the phone and tells Nanoka what her brother told her during his visit and says she just wants him to be happy. It basically left the impression that their mother suspects that they have feelings for each other but wants them to be happy.

Also Nanoka's school friend is shown to have seen a photo of Nanoka and her brother in her school diary implying more strongly than in the anime that she does know what's happening rather than mere suspicions.

It was mentioned above but at the end of the manga they're both aware that the park is going to be redeveloped and the trees cut down and say that even thought it'll be gone they'll still keep on loving each other, and also, Koshiro does say it directly to Nanoka that he loves her as they're parting in the final scene.
 
Jul 18, 2014 12:42 AM
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Just finished in one long ride and it was great...the story is strong, flowning just right, realistic enough and perfectly written. Main character could be a little more decisive and less childish, but given the taboo, who are we to blame him :P.
Anyway, I've had my share of romace, nice happy end...oh and that incest thing? Well, that depends on the viewer...in my list, it's more to the "I don't care, why not?" end...as long as they restrain from (or are aware of the high risks when) having a baby.
 
Jul 25, 2014 7:06 PM
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Beautiful. One of the most moving and thought provoking anime I have seen.
 
Sep 5, 2014 9:53 AM

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SweetKotomi said:
So let me get this straight, Nanoka and Koshiro will not see each other except for that one day in Spring where they promise to see each other. I like how they peacefully let their relationship go, and how Koshiro did not let his sexual desire get the best of him. However, since both placed their names under an umbrella and on a tree how will the father react if he sees that. I believe their relationship won't last, and that Nanoka's father when he learns the truth will take her away far from him. Nanoka once she turns the adult age will go in search of Koshiro where they will finally be able to love each other without the worry of her father telling her what to do as she will be an adult.

10/10
Beautiful story, taboo yes, but very emotional, and realistic.
I agree, my favorite Anime ever. Dont forget the beautiful OP and ED, it fits just perfect. 11/10.
 
Oct 12, 2014 11:11 AM

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To me, it felt like a "once a year date" rather than an "every day date" because why would they write their names on the tree if that's not the case. However, I'm still in grave denial... A part of me wants to believe that they just pre-planned their Spring date and they would still continue to see each other every day, but a big part of me is already convinced that they'd only meet once per year...

Talk about conflicting feelings.

As for the show itself, I didn't really feel any attachment to it until up to like Episode 7. The surge of feeling in me was so sudden, and now I can definitely say I LOVE THIS ANIME.

Being an anime fan since childhood, Koi Kaze is honestly one of the best shows I've ever seen.
 
Oct 25, 2014 6:49 PM

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So very, very close to a 10/10 from me.

This final episode felt somewhat unsubstantial. I would have liked a concrete ending, I don't mind what. Their secret can't stay like that forever. Hell, I'd have preferred the double suicide to that ending. It probably didn't help that after the scene saying that they're knocking down the park and they wrote their name on the tree, I was expecting that to lead into their father finding out (I didn't realise how far through the episode I was).

So for me an otherwise amazing, thought-provoking series sort of just whimpered out of existence.
 
Oct 29, 2014 12:56 PM

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i enjoyed this anime very much. It had nice artstyle a nice soundtrack, execution, pacing and i liked the opening after i while. I hoped that the end wouldnt inlcude them comming together, thats why i hated it after epiosde 11. I wonder why people feel so disgusted by the incest while the pedophilic ideas are far more disturbing. They may excuse her being 15 or 16 all they want... her body height is the one of a 12 year old.. and her overall look as well (also her attitude).
Over the height of a person you can easily determine how old they might be when they are children (especially when you can compare to others of the same age)
A girl with the age of 14 to 15 already nearly reached her maximun body height ( and she is avarage height compared to her classmates) and she is very small compared to the co-worker for example and the main protagonist espceially (but he ofc seems to be very large).

I didnt like how the show represented their pedophilic main protagonist as a normal guy with a normal relationship in his past, since it supports the idea that pedophiles are just normal people.. you cant be more away from truth. Being sexually attracted to little kids (in this case a little girl) aka pedophilia is a mental sickness found mostly by anti-social and lonely person. There are many reasons pedophilia can occur. Also it comes from unpleasant relationships with partner of the same age, which occurred to the main protagonist. But normally being rejected by an attracted person is meant by unpleasant relationships, so a normal relationship, how it is described the main protagonist had in his past, would be a very unrealistic cause for his pedophilic sickness.

Her being attracted to him is understandable, since she is a little girl and going through puberty.. they just fell in love with anything. Him struggeling with his sickness was the only thing how i could endure this anime (especially ep 11).

I can see many people who think this anime to be very sad..i can imagin i would think that as well.. if it wasnt so freaking sick.
 
Oct 30, 2014 2:15 AM

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Lockensocke said:
I wonder why people feel so disgusted by the incest while the pedophilic ideas are far more disturbing. They may excuse her being 15 or 16 all they want... her body height is the one of a 12 year old.. and her overall look as well (also her attitude).
Over the height of a person you can easily determine how old they might be when they are children (especially when you can compare to others of the same age)
A girl with the age of 14 to 15 already nearly reached her maximun body height ( and she is avarage height compared to her classmates) and she is very small compared to the co-worker for example and the main protagonist espceially (but he ofc seems to be very large).

I didnt like how the show represented their pedophilic main protagonist as a normal guy with a normal relationship in his past, since it supports the idea that pedophiles are just normal people.. you cant be more away from truth. Being sexually attracted to little kids (in this case a little girl) aka pedophilia is a mental sickness found mostly by anti-social and lonely person. There are many reasons pedophilia can occur. Also it comes from unpleasant relationships with partner of the same age, which occurred to the main protagonist. But normally being rejected by an attracted person is meant by unpleasant relationships, so a normal relationship, how it is described the main protagonist had in his past, would be a very unrealistic cause for his pedophilic sickness.

Her being attracted to him is understandable, since she is a little girl and going through puberty..


Unfortunate that there is still so much propaganda being spewed. Atleast educate yourself so as not to make a(n even bigger) fool of yourself.

Pedophilia is "the attraction in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia). The NEXT level after that is hebephilia which "is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in pubescent individuals approximately 11-14 years old" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia). FINALLY there is Ephebophilia which "is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia).

This immediately refutes the bulk of your naive criticism. As I have stated earlier in the thread, it is mentioned numerous times in the manga/anime that Nanoko does not have sex till she is 16 (anime)/17(manga). At worst Koshiro is an Ephebophiliac, which not only is not a crime in the vast majority of the world (including most US States and more importantly Japan, which is the setting of the story), but is actually perfectly natural, reasonable, and acceptable. Males are meant to find females in their late teenage years attractive, and that is generally considered the ideal age for females.

Your other point is also completely irrelevant, namely that she "looks" young.. It's perplexing that you have seen a fair amount of anime, and yet are seemingly ignorant of anime's tendency to make females younger/loli looking. This isn't even the case here, as Nanoko looks like a perfectly average Japanese 16 year old high school girl would look like. One thing that Koi Kaze does well is it's relatively accurate portrayal of looks that correlates strongly to the real world. There are no bishounen/bishoujo's or obscene proportioned characters etc. Now in the case of Koshiro it's pointed out often that he is tall and large. While I agree this makes the couple's disparity even greater due to the size and maturity difference, it still doesn't change the legality in terms of age differential in Japan. It's perfectly fine to have issues with the incestual aspect of the relationship, but the age thing is a mute point.
Modified by SlickDragon, Oct 30, 2014 2:41 AM
 
Oct 30, 2014 6:54 AM

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SlickDragon said:

Unfortunate that there is still so much propaganda being spewed. Atleast educate yourself so as not to make a(n even bigger) fool of yourself.

Pedophilia is "the attraction in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia). The NEXT level after that is hebephilia which "is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in pubescent individuals approximately 11-14 years old" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia). FINALLY there is Ephebophilia which "is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19" (source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia).

This immediately refutes the bulk of your naive criticism. As I have stated earlier in the thread, it is mentioned numerous times in the manga/anime that Nanoko does not have sex till she is 16 (anime)/17(manga). At worst Koshiro is an Ephebophiliac, which not only is not a crime in the vast majority of the world (including most US States and more importantly Japan, which is the setting of the story), but is actually perfectly natural, reasonable, and acceptable. Males are meant to find females in their late teenage years attractive, and that is generally considered the ideal age for females.

Your other point is also completely irrelevant, namely that she "looks" young.. It's perplexing that you have seen a fair amount of anime, and yet are seemingly ignorant of anime's tendency to make females younger/loli looking. This isn't even the case here, as Nanoko looks like a perfectly average Japanese 16 year old high school girl would look like. One thing that Koi Kaze does well is it's relatively accurate portrayal of looks that correlates strongly to the real world. There are no bishounen/bishoujo's or obscene proportioned characters etc. Now in the case of Koshiro it's pointed out often that he is tall and large. While I agree this makes the couple's disparity even greater due to the size and maturity difference, it still doesn't change the legality in terms of age differential in Japan. It's perfectly fine to have issues with the incestual aspect of the relationship, but the age thing is a mute point.


Dude are u freaking seriously? I ask again.. are u freaking serious that the pedophilic ideas presented in this anime are ok with you but the incest is bothering you? I really hope noone every listen to what you have to say.

It is very sad to see people hopelessly try to excuse their pedophilic needs with saying.. she said she is 16.. she looks like a 16 year old... blablabla

People should really learn reading at some point of their education.
"Pedophilia is used for individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger" said by wikipedia ( so not 11)... ofc there are different kinds of pedophilia which i havent mentioned in my comment ( but you did)... the other forms such as Ephebophilia which is ALSO a subcategory of pedophilia and also a mental sickness. You said it is legal in some countries to have sex with 15-19 year old children. Well when you look at the japanese society you will quickly notice that their avarage lifing ( lots of work, emotions arent very much allowed, everyone is closed up to the outsite world) can only lead to people having problems.. and this most of the time leads to some kind of sexual needs which have to be compensated. Thats why you see more and more of this shit. I dont say my society is healthier (especially since it gets more and more like the asian once) but in Europe having sex with a person under the age of 17 is a crime with your 2 years older than this person. Which is a result out of a more healthy society than the asian once.
And before you foolishly point out that about 25% of male adults can have stimulation from prepubescent children. my source is the german version of the wikipedia article about pedophilia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A4dophilie
However are those 25% primarily are attracted to the same age and only secondary to children, and this is NOT the case in Koi Kaze.

I have already PROVEN by her avarage body height that the little girl in Koi Kaze is most likely at the age of 12 years old. ( in some scenes it might be different, especially in epiosde 12 where she was only about 20cm smaller than the co-worker and non-constant body proportions are a normal thing in anime but in most scenes she has the body height of a 12 year old)

And it doesnt matter if you think she looks like an avarage 16 year old anime character since they make everything a loli... because THATS the freaking problem you sick pedophile. There should be a very distinguishable border between moe and fanservice (or sexservice)... the one cute, the other stimulating. Mixing those 2 together is a move the anime industry made espeically in the recent years since more and more animefans seem to have a need for those things, because of unhappy sex-live (or something like this.. i dont know the exact reason.. i can only asume how someone can get errected from seeing a little anime girl)
Its ok for me to watch this anime and to see her as a cute little girl, but to have sexual errections because of her or to dream of sexual intercore with her is a sickness which you should check out.. and even if you dont.. this anime still supports pedophilic idea.. which it shouldnt. How would you think about an anime seeing a HIV infected person going around saying its ok and having sex with everyone.. such a person is a threat to society and should know what he should do in this situation (seak help for example). Pedophilia is a mental sickness which most likely stick until an old age.. so people who have this disorder should learn how to deal with it and NOT think its ok to just live a normal live until it escalates, since they can come up with excuses very quickly, just as i saw in your case.

The incest is not really a problem, at least from a psychological standpoint, since they didnt grew up together the Westermarck-effect cant influence their needs..which is the effect that describes how 2 people growing up together wont find each other attractiv later in their life.. ofc its anti-social since they wont be able to get any healthy children but from the psychology basic it isnt unrealistic, which was the point that i made in my comment.

A society based on your idea would be like: rape and killing is ok.. since everyone excuses it with: "she said i can rape her" and "he said I can kill him"
Modified by Lockensocke, Nov 1, 2014 8:43 AM
 
Nov 9, 2014 7:48 AM

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Arguments aside, this series is extremely underrated. IMO, it's on a very short list of shows that evoke genuine, organic pathos. Koi Kaze transcends this genre by expertly fusing romance, obsession, infatuation, and guilt, while at the same time tackling the most challenging topic of all--incest. All in all, fabulous execution.

I rather enjoyed all the foreshadowing in the final episode and think they handled it well. But because any long term prospect for this relationship isn't plausible, some last minute character growth on his part would have been welcome: perhaps a couple first-person lines illustrating his recognition that their continued association will cost her future happiness and opportunity.
 
Nov 11, 2014 2:25 PM

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@Lockensocke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
(the map)

On the other hand if you believe that Koshiro should be a social loner or make the pervy face in order to appear pedophilic, I'll gladly remind you that he gradually becomes a social loner due to the feelings he starts to express; he loses all his confidence to stay in public with adult people that judge him, so if this is what bothers you the series does cover it. Koshiro's desires alone make him look weird, and a pervert. This is emphasized and quite a lot in the story. And you know the fuss here? He is in love with Nanoka, who is a separated entity. He doesn't become more into underaged girls, he doesn't stop finding adult women attractive. No. The story is about how, somehow, a normal man gets a crush on a normal teenage girl. You don't get him jerking off to other schoolgirls or even finding them remotely attractive after that. Basically because the story is not about pedophilia/ephebophilia in itself but about the contradiction between the strong moral issues associated with this -and incest- and the inevitability of an infatuation that can't be explained or rationalized because it trascends the standards of BOTH Koshiro and Nanoka.
 
Nov 12, 2014 8:42 AM

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Modified by Lockensocke, Nov 12, 2014 8:45 AM
 
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