| Yes, Jojo has substantial Gar though Jojo is obviously very different... Not sure if people are tired of warring states era stuff the artstyle or what. If it is truly an air show we won't know what they didn't like. |
hpulley said: With Gifou Dodo doing nothing, is Gar dead right now or is it just that show? Fist of the North Star author, right? It just the show. Not many people actually like the character designs. And the story doesn't seem to be that interesting(although I dropped it at episode 3). And for a 'GAR' series, it seems to be rather lacking in action. |
| For "~~Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers~~" (Not a numbers person though, so forgive any potential ignorance on how things work) I wonder if there's any chance for a S2. |
StreetFighterAug 7, 2013 12:28 PM
 |
Soudadorable said: I wonder if "dying swan song suicide anime" is what you believe or you are quoting someone else. Anyway, if its sales is good a sequel (S2) is always a possibility.For Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| *7, 2,081 23,953 Uchuu Senkan Yamato 2199 Movie 6: I recently started watching the OVA's and there are pretty good might start watching the movies after that. 63,452 *3 Shingeki no Kyojin [BD+DVD]: 2013/07/17 20,492 *4 Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai. [BD+DVD]: 2013/06/19 16,720 *1 Toaru Kagaku no Railgun S [BD+DVD]: 2013/07/24 13,702 *2 Hatarakou Maou-sama! [BD+DVD]: 2013/07/03 13,567 *5 Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. [BD+DVD]: 2013/06/26 *8,295 *2 Kakumeiki Valvrave [BD+DVD]: 2013/06/26 not too bad of a week if i may say so |
symbv said: Soudadorable said: I wonder if "dying swan song suicide anime" is what you believe or you are quoting someone else. Anyway, if its sales is good a sequel (S2) is always a possibility.For Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers. Haha no you'll have to forgive me for the confusion, I was merely referencing the initial flurry of... dubious opinions regarding Free! before it came out proper and how it was most certainly a sign of Kyoani's impending doom, studio career suicide, ect. ect. I'd be lying if I didn't say it's solid sales (10k is solid sales right? I'm really not a numbers person, did I mention that before? Sorry.) was a cause for much fist pumping and smug feelings. I am quite invested in Free! for numerous reasons, sorry for any potential confusion. (It's pretty much as the person above me says, I know it's rather rude of me but I do consider a substantial amount of the people who acted that way worthy of ridicule >_>) jmal said: Soudadorable said: I wonder if there's any chance for a S2. Even before the event ticket announcement it was looking like a very good shot at 10k, so it would have been sequel territory already. But that's just based on sales, also depends what KyoAni wants to do with it in a creative sense. They may have intended to end it conclusively this season (or maybe not!). Yeah in fairness, I could see it reaching a satisfactory (for what it is) conclusion in 12 episodes, I could also see it being expanded on with another set of 12. I guess my question was more "Has it justified a season 2 strictly speaking on a monetary basis" and I'm pleased to hear that answer seems to be yes. |
|
Soudadorable said: I see. Perhaps putting it in quotation, like "For Kyoani's 'dying swan song suicide' anime", would make it more clear that you are quoting some other people's opinion as a "so-called" description. ;-)Haha no you'll have to forgive me for the confusion, I was merely referencing the initial flurry of... dubious opinions regarding Free! before it came out proper and how it was most certainly a sign of Kyoani's impending doom, studio career suicide, ect. ect. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| 10 million dollars to the man who makes sarcasm detectable over the internet, but I digress. |
|
Takuan_Soho said: If you mean in terms of sales, then I agree this is a very weak season, although in terms of entertainment value it is not that weak (at least to me) and I am still watching >26 shows started in this season with much relish. Everything else I can only see downside. As you said, very weak season. Surprising because I thought it had started relatively strongly. I am not as sure about the potential of Love Lab or Silver Spoon to become a big riser later on - the (possible) shift in direction in Love Lab carries risk while gain may be limited, and I do not see major factor pushing Silver Spoon's disc sale in later part of the series. Late big risers (making the jump after ep.4) happen more likely for original but this season original anime are either already in the top pier - besides the big winner Free then there is only Symphogear, or they are in the bottom - Fantasista Doll and Genei wo kakeru Taiyou - where even big jump may not save them from a poor sales figure. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Takuan_Soho said: If you mean in terms of sales, then I agree this is a very weak season, although in terms of entertainment value it is not that weak (at least to me) and I am still watching >26 shows started in this season with much relish. Everything else I can only see downside. As you said, very weak season. Surprising because I thought it had started relatively strongly. I am not as sure about the potential of Love Lab or Silver Spoon to become a big riser later on - the (possible) shift in direction in Love Lab carries risk while gain may be limited, and I do not see major factor pushing Silver Spoon's disc sale in later part of the series. Late big risers (making the jump after ep.4) happen more likely for original but this season original anime are either already in the top pier - besides the big winner Free then there is only Symphogear, or they are in the bottom - Fantasista Doll and Genei wo kakeru Taiyou - where even big jump may not save them from a poor sales figure. Another thing that can't save many series is the merchandise, like I said, it also went South this season. Wonfes had most of the good stuff being from anime that aired last season to even last year, like those hot Nakaimo figures and a hell of a lot of emphasis on SnK, so not only do we have goods from last season and last year's anime for completion we have a super popular series that took over an entire festival killing sales at a rapid rate. |
 |
Takuan_Soho said: symbv said: - In many ways, Free! is the winner in this season. For a long while after its solicitation, its ranking was under #100 even #200 and the projected sales was barely 6k. I would have to say that Free is the clear winner. Just 3 weeks ago people could legitimately say that the show was a failure, 2 weeks ago I thought the show was probably going to break 10K, but now we see that has been shattered. 14K already? And this show really hasn't kicked into overdrive yet. If KyoAni continues to improve it every week (I haven't seen 5 yet, but I don't generally bet against KyoAni blowing something) and if does a great competition (this may be a weakness for KyoAni), then Free will break the 20K barrier. Hands down. Watamote won't rise. It's the type of show people like to watch once, but not to re-watch. Genshiken will not improve. Most of the old time viewers were turned off by the voices, the story is too different from what previous anime fans liked, and Free is dominating the Female market. It is one of those shows I think might have done better in a different season. Winter perhaps, but the Free steamroller will roll it. I personally love Uchouten Kazoku, but it's too eclectic, sort of like Jinrui. So while a strong series from start to end may help a little, it will not break 3K. The only two shows I can see as potential big risers are Love Lab and Silver Spoon. The later has a very strong manga base, but it doesn't have "otaku" support, so this could be a rare example with low pre-orders, but strong point of purchase sales. Still don't see it breaking 6K, but that would be a sizable jump over where it is now. Love lab is the other possible breakout. I think people are holding out because they are expecting it to weaken, but if the show continues strong you will start to see a pick up in pre-orders in 2-3 weeks. This I think is the only other show possible of maybe getting into the 8-10 range. Too many "ifs" right now for it, but in this otherwise extremely weak season, the only one to watch. Everything else I can only see downside. As you said, very weak season. Surprising because I thought it had started relatively strongly. Such a sad state of affairs....like virtually everything you just said. How it's conceivable that there would be much crossover in Genshiken and Free's audience I don't know, but if that is the case then just welp. The idea of Free as a steamroller that's taking other shows sales potential before they can gain an audience is a virtual nightmare scenario as far as I'm concerned and everything I fear from the likes of Kyoani and co. On the other hand at least the producers of Free genuinely seem to be trying to please their audience compared to just about everyone else who frankly really aren't, which again is really kind of sad as I don't typically associate Kyoani with hard effort in anything other than animation in your average season so if Free is a steamroller it's only because everyone else decided to lay over and get flattened this summer. I hope it's not the case but then who knows as this season is just such a downer in every conceivable manner. If I couldn't see what was coming in Fall and what came before in Spring and knew for a fact this season is mostly an aberration I'd be seriously worried about the state of anime right now as it makes it really makes it look like everything I loathe about modern anime has taken hold in a big way and that what I like about anime is dead and gone. Glad it's not actually the case, but the wait till fall is starting to kill me now. I don't know at the halfway point of this season I probably consider it at least in the top 3 worst ever. I can't think of a single thing I would take as a clear positive that has come out of this current summer season, which I could at least do a bit for Winter 2013. Just abysmal. Soudadorable said: symbv said: Soudadorable said: I wonder if "dying swan song suicide anime" is what you believe or you are quoting someone else. Anyway, if its sales is good a sequel (S2) is always a possibility.For Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers. Haha no you'll have to forgive me for the confusion, I was merely referencing the initial flurry of... dubious opinions regarding Free! before it came out proper and how it was most certainly a sign of Kyoani's impending doom, studio career suicide, ect. ect. I'd be lying if I didn't say it's solid sales (10k is solid sales right? I'm really not a numbers person, did I mention that before? Sorry.) was a cause for much fist pumping and smug feelings. I am quite invested in Free! for numerous reasons, sorry for any potential confusion. (It's pretty much as the person above me says, I know it's rather rude of me but I do consider a substantial amount of the people who acted that way worthy of ridicule >_>) I may have very few positive if any things to say regarding Kyoani and it's fanbase, but the blatant misogyny and painfully naive idea that this show wasn't going to do well was just such an awe inspiring display of stupidity that I'm inclined to agree. I don't know why everybody always has to exaggerate the crap out of everything when it comes to Kyoani, but for once it was kind of the anti-fans being by far the bigger dicks. Please don't make me regret saying this by the way people even though I know someone will probably find a way. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 4:29 PM
| KyoAni puts in the most effort and Shaft is the most creative, embrace them! |
Progeusz said: KyoAni puts in the most effort and Shaft is the most creative, embrace them! No, and I flat out absolutely disagree by the way. Yes Kyoani puts in a lot of effort in animation when it comes to TV, quite possibly the most on average from series to series, but they don't demonstrably put in the most effort of anybody overall period and frankly their effort when it comes to scriptwriting (minus the rare occasion when Shoji Gatoh is involved) are utterly laughably by any sort of real critical standard and the same goes with things like audio and story boarding. It also doesn't help that virtually all their series take place within the same sort of setting and have a similar sort of atmosphere too them. Yes Shaft has been creative with their visual style over the years, but their stable of gimmicks like the head tilt, the episode long fan service sequences, the low detail backgrounds and the loli in a bathtub are frankly starting to get stale VERY fast and they are desperately in need of some new blood when it comes to directing (the main thing holding them back for me at this point) and to say they are the most creative period is an absolute insult to the efforts of others. Sadly so many people truly believe this nowadays though and have positively zero respect for the efforts of anyone else in the industry. It's just all lets celebrate the achievements of these same two groups over and over again and ignore or outright shit on the efforts of others. Just really really sad. jmal said: While we're on the topic of Free being awesome, the light novel apparently got a big restock and just charted again in its fourth week! First week was 10,689, didn't rank in the list we have access to in wk2-3, then this week a big 8,821 taking it to 22,704! And surely as its popularity continues to rise, it has a very good chance of ranking again if KA Esuma can keep production in pace with demand. Good novel sales, good music sales, and looking like good anime sales. A multi-media success in the making and a very important boost to a young, independent novel imprint. I don't believe anybody ever said anything about Free being awesome, just that it's realizing it's potential in terms of sales. I know many people don't seem to get this, but sales/=quality. One is an objective statistic, the other a subjective measure of reception. If the show can help a young novelist that otherwise wouldn't get a shot to earn an honest living though I can't say I see that as a bad thing. If there's anything this industry really needs it's for newcomers to have a bloody chance at all even if the material they are writing may not be to my tastes I'll never see opportunity as a bad thing, |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 5:45 PM
bippo said: Free volume 2 & 3 crashing and burning all those nekomonogatari volumes. This is a great day. Free!: Great plot, great animation, great OST, great bodies. What more can you ask for. It is just screaming for bestseller title this season. I think it is safe to say Free will be the bestseller this season as well. And NOT the FAILURE that is monogatari second season. I also think monogatari is OUT and OUSTED to compete in the yearly top-sellers as well. Shaft milked the monogatari franchise too much and is now like dying 90 year old human and is begging to just disappear. Meanwhile, kyoani and its newest masterpiece Free! is looking bright and playing in the summer sun full of happiness and money on their side. It is kyoani's brilliant ideas and Free!'s great plot and muscular half-naked men that will be the TOP and WINNER this summer. Shaft's greedy milking, together with aniplex, will be the biggest failure of the season. Possibly this year. Here is my prediction for the top-sellers this year of 2013. Average sales, of course. Titans will be solid 50k average. Free! will be doing about a solid 43k. Like K-on. Another kyoani masterpiece. Utapri will be about 40k. Kurobas or IS will outsell Yamato2199 and will go for 38k. Great day indeed. I will go rewatch free episode 5 as well. RAGE OOOOOOOOOOOON!!!! KYOANI AND FREE!!!!! Its very hard to tell whether you're acteally serious or not. |
bippo said: Here is my prediction for the top-sellers this year of 2013. Average sales, of course. Titans will be solid 50k average. Free! will be doing about a solid 43k. Like K-on. Another kyoani masterpiece. Utapri will be about 40k. Kurobas or IS will outsell Yamato2199 and will go for 38k. Great day indeed. I will go rewatch free episode 5 as well. RAGE OOOOOOOOOOOON!!!! KYOANI AND FREE!!!!! This is just screaming fanboy/fangirl. I'm most likely getting trolled here, but whatever. You are really taking out Monogatari as a contender for 2013 Top seller? Can't really take you seriously here. Free 43k average? Come on... only v2 and 3 have event tickets, not the whole 6 volumes, LOL. SnK 50k? Only if they add extras on v5, 7~9. UtaPri 40k is reasonable I guess. KuroBas and IS... possibly. Depends if the same crowd that buys UtaPri is also interested in KuroBas. With IS, it depends if it gained more fans since S1 or not. |
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
bippo said: rederoin said: Its very hard to tell whether you're acteally serious or not. Well, I forgot about my prediction for monogatari as well so I'll do it here. Titan 50k Free! 43k. Utapri 40k. Kurobas/IS 38k. Yamato will fall to about 35k average. And that monogatari second season will be doing about 25k. If you're actually serious. Then your prediction couldn't be further off. Aside from SnK(maybe?). Free! will do good, but nothing is pointing towards it selling above 20k, I doubt it'll even break 15. Utapri sold a ton because of the event-tickets. The rest of the volume's will sell as much as V2. So it will end up with a 29k or 30k~ average. The first season of Kurbas sold far below 38k, so I really wonder where you are getting that number from. Same goes for IS. Meanwhile, Monogatari already has close to 30k points on stalker. |
bippo said: Ejc said: This is just screaming fanboy/fangirl. You are really taking out Monogatari as a contender for 2013 Top seller? Can't really take you seriously here. Free 43k average? Come on... only v2 and 3 have event tickets, not the whole 6 volumes, LOL. SnK 50k? Only if they add extras on v5, 7~9. UtaPri 40k is reasonable I guess. KuroBas and IS... possibly. Depends if the same crowd that buys UtaPri is also interested in KuroBas. With IS, it depends if it gained more fans since S1 or not. Neko is not selling well. Fans are waiting for that boxset from aniplex with the whole 12 fucking volumes. Which is cheap but will hurt terribly from the pocket which will put off fans. It is already sure the average will drop in half. 25k is my prediction. Keyword for monogatari dropping is boxset and TERRIBLE. Free volume 2 and 3 will push the average to a high 40k, in my prediction. BUT the good thing is volume 1 is selling good even if there's no event tickets. Just like utapri last spring. PLUS the combination of excellent and flamboyant plot, muscles, OST. Almost everything is perfect. Keywords for free is PERFECT and WINNER. Titans are doing better than expected. The looooong tail of volume1 will push the average in my opinion. I don't know about you saying utapri and kurobas fans are the same. I think it is a completely different set of people. IS fans are solid despite the new and improved(??) LN character designs lol. Keyword for kurobas and IS is cult. Also, the new shows this fall. We don't who will be the surprise dark horse that can dethrone SnK and Free, the two topsellers of the year in my prediction. Do you have a source that there will be a boxset for all the 12 volumes? Why would it hurt the average though? I would think Monogatari being Monogatari, people will still buy it and it will still average 50k+ anyway. LOL, are you thinking v2 and v3 will sell like 70k each or something? That's really dreaming. SnK v1 is losing steam. It won't last much longer just like UtaPri v1. Of course, sales for SnK won't reach the same level as v1 as it is already being shown on Stalker... and the extras dictate which volumes will sell higher than others. Well, I am saying that if the UtaPri fans also buy KuroBas, then it could possibly average 40k, as it also has male sports fanbase. Well if you say so for IS, it is possible. Free! won't be 2013 top seller. It is between Monogatari and SnK anyhow... unless a new dark horse of Madoka proportions is hiding amongst the Fall anime. |
| The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
bippo said: @jmal: That is just amazon. Fans are gathering at the aniplex shop. Shaking their heads if they would buy the whole boxset. C'mon guys..... you should know the site for the aniplex shop... And if you could read, you would see the Aniplex+ store bonus for Nekomonogatari White is a box to hold... Nekomonogatari White only. Please do not misrepresent store bonus items. |
bippo said: @jmal: That is just amazon. Fans are gathering at the aniplex shop. Shaking their heads if they would buy the whole boxset. C'mon guys..... you should know the site for the aniplex shop...you guys knew HMV,animate,amazon, kyoani shop after all. I hardly ever go on their shop site, I like my 10-27% discount. |
|
jmal said: The LN enhances the experience of the anime so greatly,, and quite honestly it's a really fascinating read providing great insight on the characters. To me, the anime and the novel are really a package deal, I'm glad to see it's doing so well. (This is less a response and more just be gushing about the novel but oh well PS: Episode 5 was incredible and again, referenced so many things in the novel it's almost like a gift every time you get a call back to it)Kaioshin_Sama said: No, and I flat out absolutely disagree by the way. Sadly so many people truly believe this nowadays though. Just really really sad. ... I don't believe anybody ever said anything about Free being awesome Kaioshin once again in charge of being hilariously over-serious and not comprehending irony! And on that note, time to go watch Free ep 5 hell yeah ♥ "Raaaaaaaaaage ooooon~" Kaioshin_Sama said: Takuan_Soho said: symbv said: - In many ways, Free! is the winner in this season. For a long while after its solicitation, its ranking was under #100 even #200 and the projected sales was barely 6k. I would have to say that Free is the clear winner. Just 3 weeks ago people could legitimately say that the show was a failure, 2 weeks ago I thought the show was probably going to break 10K, but now we see that has been shattered. 14K already? And this show really hasn't kicked into overdrive yet. If KyoAni continues to improve it every week (I haven't seen 5 yet, but I don't generally bet against KyoAni blowing something) and if does a great competition (this may be a weakness for KyoAni), then Free will break the 20K barrier. Hands down. Watamote won't rise. It's the type of show people like to watch once, but not to re-watch. Genshiken will not improve. Most of the old time viewers were turned off by the voices, the story is too different from what previous anime fans liked, and Free is dominating the Female market. It is one of those shows I think might have done better in a different season. Winter perhaps, but the Free steamroller will roll it. I personally love Uchouten Kazoku, but it's too eclectic, sort of like Jinrui. So while a strong series from start to end may help a little, it will not break 3K. The only two shows I can see as potential big risers are Love Lab and Silver Spoon. The later has a very strong manga base, but it doesn't have "otaku" support, so this could be a rare example with low pre-orders, but strong point of purchase sales. Still don't see it breaking 6K, but that would be a sizable jump over where it is now. Love lab is the other possible breakout. I think people are holding out because they are expecting it to weaken, but if the show continues strong you will start to see a pick up in pre-orders in 2-3 weeks. This I think is the only other show possible of maybe getting into the 8-10 range. Too many "ifs" right now for it, but in this otherwise extremely weak season, the only one to watch. Everything else I can only see downside. As you said, very weak season. Surprising because I thought it had started relatively strongly. Such a sad state of affairs....like virtually everything you just said. How it's conceivable that there would be much crossover in Genshiken and Free's audience I don't know, but if that is the case then just welp. The idea of Free as a steamroller that's taking other shows sales potential before they can gain an audience is a virtual nightmare scenario as far as I'm concerned and everything I fear from the likes of Kyoani and co. On the other hand at least the producers of Free genuinely seem to be trying to please their audience compared to just about everyone else who frankly really aren't, which again is really kind of sad as I don't typically associate Kyoani with hard effort in anything other than animation in your average season so if Free is a steamroller it's only because everyone else decided to lay over and get flattened this summer. I hope it's not the case but then who knows as this season is just such a downer in every conceivable manner. If I couldn't see what was coming in Fall and what came before in Spring and knew for a fact this season is mostly an aberration I'd be seriously worried about the state of anime right now as it makes it really makes it look like everything I loathe about modern anime has taken hold in a big way and that what I like about anime is dead and gone. Glad it's not actually the case, but the wait till fall is starting to kill me now. I don't know at the halfway point of this season I probably consider it at least in the top 3 worst ever. I can't think of a single thing I would take as a clear positive that has come out of this current summer season, which I could at least do a bit for Winter 2013. Just abysmal. Soudadorable said: symbv said: Soudadorable said: I wonder if "dying swan song suicide anime" is what you believe or you are quoting someone else. Anyway, if its sales is good a sequel (S2) is always a possibility.For Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers. Haha no you'll have to forgive me for the confusion, I was merely referencing the initial flurry of... dubious opinions regarding Free! before it came out proper and how it was most certainly a sign of Kyoani's impending doom, studio career suicide, ect. ect. I'd be lying if I didn't say it's solid sales (10k is solid sales right? I'm really not a numbers person, did I mention that before? Sorry.) was a cause for much fist pumping and smug feelings. I am quite invested in Free! for numerous reasons, sorry for any potential confusion. (It's pretty much as the person above me says, I know it's rather rude of me but I do consider a substantial amount of the people who acted that way worthy of ridicule >_>) I may have very few positive if any things to say regarding Kyoani and it's fanbase, but the blatant misogyny and painfully naive idea that this show wasn't going to do well was just such an awe inspiring display of stupidity that I'm inclined to agree. I don't know why everybody always has to exaggerate the crap out of everything when it comes to Kyoani, but for once it was kind of the anti-fans being by far the bigger dicks. Please don't make me regret saying this by the way people even though I know someone will probably find a way. Well I have kind of made a habit of making a big deal out of Free! because several things about it are kind of a big deal, not to mention it has made me learn some things about Kyoani! that I didn't know before, mostly due to my own prejudices (I admit, sometimes I get bitter at the lopsidedness of the industry and hold it against perfectly fine shows, I'm human. I have a lot of flaws.) The studio employs a lot of women for one thing, which I find an absolute dire necessity in the anime industry, and they treat them well as professionals and people. The fact that the studio even allowed a woman to rise to the rank of director (female directors again, being something I find the industry is seriously worse off for lacking almost completely... I can't even think of five female anime directors, I'm hard pressed to think of three including Free!'s director) is a step in the right direction, and like it or not it does matter that it was Kyoani. Was the backlash stupidly exaggerated? 100000% percent, most of it incredibly homophobic and misogynistic and incredibly painful, but the fact that it was such a big well-known studio did matter, the size of the person jumping into the pool directly correlated to the strength of the splash and how far it extends outwards. It goes without saying that were the director not a woman with an interest in the upper bodies of handsome men, and more importantly, a desire to give an anime to people who share her interests, Free! would completely lack all that warmth and effort (which is there, trust me as someone who is within the target demographic this show tries very hard to be pleasing and it succeeds on multiple levels far beyond just shirtless guys) and would probably just be the shallow fanservice cash cow so many people brand it as (even getting upset at it having DVD extras), which is why she's an important part of the equation, and Kyoani allowing her and her anime this chance is in itself an important thing. Some things really are just important for existing, because they symbolize someone in power's willingness to allow someone who previously lacked the chance to be seen a chance. When you have so little representation, sometimes just existing is enough to mean a lot (Good thing Free! is an amazing franchise, but you get what I mean) . I'm not even a Kyoani fan too much, I've found their shows ranging from alright to pretty alright (though again, after learning some things about Kyoani like how the animators tended to treat their female characters with care like they were their daughters, how wonderful is that plus +50 perceptions points for you Kyoani) but I have to give them credit where credit is due. Not only did they go off on a limb financially, putting their reputation on the line (to a degree), but intentionally or not they filled a hole and gave a chunk of people nothing short of a gift. I'm sorry if that wasn't very coherent and I'm sorry for laying it on thick but people (usually guys, not always not all guys, but... usually guys) either intentionally missing the point or just not realizing what it's like to finally have someone notice you and make something intentionally for you, made by someone who thinks like you and wants you to be truly happy with their product, gets tiring in a way (though how could you realize in fairness, guys will never have to experience an anime industry that doesn't work hard for them and that doesn't make them bad ignorant people necessarily, it's just not a reality you will ever experience)? I'm really happy you realize how freaking gross the reaction to this show was, and continues to be though to a much lesser extent... I think our joke reviews using homophobic slurs have petered down to a manageable level at least, so this was meant to come off as less of a rant and more just perhaps an explanation from someone on the other side. You might not like the story or the characters, and maybe speedos make you uncomfortable, but it's important. I'll cut this off now because I am getting a bit ranty. Keep going Free!. Keep going, ladies. (I'm not dumb enough to make Monogatari comparisons saleswise though, I'm a bit more realistic than that) |
|
ultimatemegax said: bippo said: @jmal: That is just amazon. Fans are gathering at the aniplex shop. Shaking their heads if they would buy the whole boxset. C'mon guys..... you should know the site for the aniplex shop... And if you could read, you would see the Aniplex+ store bonus for Nekomonogatari White is a box to hold... Nekomonogatari White only. Please do not misrepresent store bonus items. I thought so. What I read on the official website is obviously different to what bippo is claiming... Exaggeration at its finest indeed. |
| The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
| I feel like TWGOK will make up for its weak sales in japan with its popularity in the West. Seeing as its the 5th most popular show on crunchyroll this season. |
| dtshyk said: Urobuchi said this anime(Psycho Pass) has cruel scenes both physically and mentally. ZettaiRyouiki: In other news, the sun rises from the East. |
bippo said: You blatant hatred against monogatari is getting really tiresome, man. And your trolling with all those fanboy screaming is not funny. I wonder if you enjoy so much being an annoying delusional talking lone-crusader against monogatari's sales prospect.Free volume 2 & 3 crashing and burning all those nekomonogatari volumes on amazon. This is a great day. I think it is safe to say Free will be the bestseller this season as well. And NOT the FAILURE that is monogatari second season. I also think monogatari is OUT and OUSTED to compete in the yearly top-sellers as well. And that monogatari second season will be doing about 25k. bippo said: Don't be silly. You know if there is any "milking" it is NisiOisiN who keeps writing novels for the series, but why did he do that? Because the novels still sell well and fans still give good feedback, and of course these fans want those novels be adapted too - this is only natural. So don't point the finger at only Shaft. Shaft milked the monogatari franchise too much and is now like dying 90 year old human and is begging to just disappear. |
symbvAug 7, 2013 8:19 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
bippo said: Free volume 2 & 3 crashing and burning all those nekomonogatari volumes on amazon. This is a great day. Free!: Great plot, great animation, great OST, great bodies. What more can you ask for. It is just screaming for bestseller title this season. Nekomongoatari: Confusing plot, slideshow animation, terrible OST, too much fanservice, too much boobs. It is not fitting to be the topseller this season with all that mess. I think it is safe to say Free will be the bestseller this season as well. And NOT the FAILURE that is monogatari second season. I also think monogatari is OUT and OUSTED to compete in the yearly top-sellers as well. Shaft milked the monogatari franchise too much and is now like dying 90 year old human and is begging to just disappear. Meanwhile, kyoani and its newest masterpiece Free! is looking bright and playing in the summer sun full of happiness and money on their side. It is kyoani's brilliant ideas and Free!'s great plot and muscular half-naked men that will be the TOP and WINNER this summer. Shaft's greedy milking, together with aniplex, will be the biggest failure of the season. Possibly this year. Here is my prediction for the top-sellers this year of 2013. Average sales, of course. Titans will be solid 50k average. Free! will be doing about a solid 43k. Like K-on. Another kyoani masterpiece. Utapri will be about 40k. Kurobas or IS will outsell Yamato2199 and will go for 38k. Great day indeed. I will go rewatch free episode 5 as well. RAGE OOOOOOOOOOOON!!!! KYOANI AND FREE!!!!! Christ here we go. This season is just the gift that keeps on giving.....I swear to god I'm just going into full back log watching mode until it's Fall at this rate. Soudadorable said: jmal said: The LN enhances the experience of the anime so greatly,, and quite honestly it's a really fascinating read providing great insight on the characters. To me, the anime and the novel are really a package deal, I'm glad to see it's doing so well. (This is less a response and more just be gushing about the novel but oh well PS: Episode 5 was incredible and again, referenced so many things in the novel it's almost like a gift every time you get a call back to it)Kaioshin_Sama said: No, and I flat out absolutely disagree by the way. Sadly so many people truly believe this nowadays though. Just really really sad. ... I don't believe anybody ever said anything about Free being awesome Kaioshin once again in charge of being hilariously over-serious and not comprehending irony! And on that note, time to go watch Free ep 5 hell yeah ♥ "Raaaaaaaaaage ooooon~" Kaioshin_Sama said: Takuan_Soho said: symbv said: - In many ways, Free! is the winner in this season. For a long while after its solicitation, its ranking was under #100 even #200 and the projected sales was barely 6k. I would have to say that Free is the clear winner. Just 3 weeks ago people could legitimately say that the show was a failure, 2 weeks ago I thought the show was probably going to break 10K, but now we see that has been shattered. 14K already? And this show really hasn't kicked into overdrive yet. If KyoAni continues to improve it every week (I haven't seen 5 yet, but I don't generally bet against KyoAni blowing something) and if does a great competition (this may be a weakness for KyoAni), then Free will break the 20K barrier. Hands down. Watamote won't rise. It's the type of show people like to watch once, but not to re-watch. Genshiken will not improve. Most of the old time viewers were turned off by the voices, the story is too different from what previous anime fans liked, and Free is dominating the Female market. It is one of those shows I think might have done better in a different season. Winter perhaps, but the Free steamroller will roll it. I personally love Uchouten Kazoku, but it's too eclectic, sort of like Jinrui. So while a strong series from start to end may help a little, it will not break 3K. The only two shows I can see as potential big risers are Love Lab and Silver Spoon. The later has a very strong manga base, but it doesn't have "otaku" support, so this could be a rare example with low pre-orders, but strong point of purchase sales. Still don't see it breaking 6K, but that would be a sizable jump over where it is now. Love lab is the other possible breakout. I think people are holding out because they are expecting it to weaken, but if the show continues strong you will start to see a pick up in pre-orders in 2-3 weeks. This I think is the only other show possible of maybe getting into the 8-10 range. Too many "ifs" right now for it, but in this otherwise extremely weak season, the only one to watch. Everything else I can only see downside. As you said, very weak season. Surprising because I thought it had started relatively strongly. Such a sad state of affairs....like virtually everything you just said. How it's conceivable that there would be much crossover in Genshiken and Free's audience I don't know, but if that is the case then just welp. The idea of Free as a steamroller that's taking other shows sales potential before they can gain an audience is a virtual nightmare scenario as far as I'm concerned and everything I fear from the likes of Kyoani and co. On the other hand at least the producers of Free genuinely seem to be trying to please their audience compared to just about everyone else who frankly really aren't, which again is really kind of sad as I don't typically associate Kyoani with hard effort in anything other than animation in your average season so if Free is a steamroller it's only because everyone else decided to lay over and get flattened this summer. I hope it's not the case but then who knows as this season is just such a downer in every conceivable manner. If I couldn't see what was coming in Fall and what came before in Spring and knew for a fact this season is mostly an aberration I'd be seriously worried about the state of anime right now as it makes it really makes it look like everything I loathe about modern anime has taken hold in a big way and that what I like about anime is dead and gone. Glad it's not actually the case, but the wait till fall is starting to kill me now. I don't know at the halfway point of this season I probably consider it at least in the top 3 worst ever. I can't think of a single thing I would take as a clear positive that has come out of this current summer season, which I could at least do a bit for Winter 2013. Just abysmal. Soudadorable said: symbv said: Soudadorable said: I wonder if "dying swan song suicide anime" is what you believe or you are quoting someone else. Anyway, if its sales is good a sequel (S2) is always a possibility.For Kyoani's dying swan song suicide anime, those don't seem like too shabby of numbers. Haha no you'll have to forgive me for the confusion, I was merely referencing the initial flurry of... dubious opinions regarding Free! before it came out proper and how it was most certainly a sign of Kyoani's impending doom, studio career suicide, ect. ect. I'd be lying if I didn't say it's solid sales (10k is solid sales right? I'm really not a numbers person, did I mention that before? Sorry.) was a cause for much fist pumping and smug feelings. I am quite invested in Free! for numerous reasons, sorry for any potential confusion. (It's pretty much as the person above me says, I know it's rather rude of me but I do consider a substantial amount of the people who acted that way worthy of ridicule >_>) I may have very few positive if any things to say regarding Kyoani and it's fanbase, but the blatant misogyny and painfully naive idea that this show wasn't going to do well was just such an awe inspiring display of stupidity that I'm inclined to agree. I don't know why everybody always has to exaggerate the crap out of everything when it comes to Kyoani, but for once it was kind of the anti-fans being by far the bigger dicks. Please don't make me regret saying this by the way people even though I know someone will probably find a way. Well I have kind of made a habit of making a big deal out of Free! because several things about it are kind of a big deal, not to mention it has made me learn some things about Kyoani! that I didn't know before, mostly due to my own prejudices (I admit, sometimes I get bitter at the lopsidedness of the industry and hold it against perfectly fine shows, I'm human. I have a lot of flaws.) The studio employs a lot of women for one thing, which I find an absolute dire necessity in the anime industry, and they treat them well as professionals and people. The fact that the studio even allowed a woman to rise to the rank of director (female directors again, being something I find the industry is seriously worse off for lacking almost completely... I can't even think of five female anime directors, I'm hard pressed to think of three including Free!'s director) is a step in the right direction, and like it or not it does matter that it was Kyoani. Was the backlash stupidly exaggerated? 100000% percent, most of it incredibly homophobic and misogynistic and incredibly painful, but the fact that it was such a big well-known studio did matter, the size of the person jumping into the pool directly correlated to the strength of the splash and how far it extends outwards. It goes without saying that were the director not a woman with an interest in the upper bodies of handsome men, and more importantly, a desire to give an anime to people who share her interests, Free! would completely lack all that warmth and effort (which is there, trust me as someone who is within the target demographic this show tries very hard to be pleasing and it succeeds on multiple levels far beyond just shirtless guys) and would probably just be the shallow fanservice cash cow so many people brand it as (even getting upset at it having DVD extras), which is why she's an important part of the equation, and Kyoani allowing her and her anime this chance is in itself an important thing. Some things really are just important for existing, because they symbolize someone in power's willingness to allow someone who previously lacked the chance to be seen a chance. When you have so little representation, sometimes just existing is enough to mean a lot (Good thing Free! is an amazing franchise, but you get what I mean) . I'm not even a Kyoani fan too much, I've found their shows ranging from alright to pretty alright (though again, after learning some things about Kyoani like how the animators tended to treat their female characters with care like they were their daughters, how wonderful is that plus +50 perceptions points for you Kyoani) but I have to give them credit where credit is due. Not only did they go off on a limb financially, putting their reputation on the line (to a degree), but intentionally or not they filled a hole and gave a chunk of people nothing short of a gift. I'm sorry if that wasn't very coherent and I'm sorry for laying it on thick but people (usually guys, not always not all guys, but... usually guys) either intentionally missing the point or just not realizing what it's like to finally have someone notice you and make something intentionally for you, made by someone who thinks like you and wants you to be truly happy with their product, gets tiring in a way (though how could you realize in fairness, guys will never have to experience an anime industry that doesn't work hard for them and that doesn't make them bad ignorant people necessarily, it's just not a reality you will ever experience)? I'm really happy you realize how freaking gross the reaction to this show was, and continues to be though to a much lesser extent... I think our joke reviews using homophobic slurs have petered down to a manageable level at least, so this was meant to come off as less of a rant and more just perhaps an explanation from someone on the other side. You might not like the story or the characters, and maybe speedos make you uncomfortable, but it's important. I'll cut this off now because I am getting a bit ranty. Keep going Free!. Keep going, ladies. (I'm not dumb enough to make Monogatari comparisons saleswise though, I'm a bit more realistic than that) Right.....yes praise be to Kyoani, such risk takers and just valiant and forever doing amazing things etc etc...sigh. Look the whole misogyny thing and the supposed quality of Free are two separate issues here. I don't don't particularly think it's fair to bring that level of pure contempt based on gender when the issue should really be do I want to watch this. It's simple as that really and for me the issue is simply that I didn't particularly find the first few episodes all that interesting. I think it's best left at that, I don't see any reason for extra special praise for Kyoani here. I know that's kind of just what people do, but I don't see anything particularly special about this production to warrant it. The idea that they went off on some financial limb is entirely a constructed situation by the fans because it's like, "oh they're doing a show with handsome male characters instead of cute girls, better not alienate their fanbase *gasp" but really it's still the same sort of bland non-threatening high school club anime they always sort of come out with except with a re-skin. If the entire situation is a fan-construct why then should Kyoani be praised for not succumbing to peoples wild imaginary fantasy land? It doesn't make any sense to me. edit: In the interests of trying to be somewhat nicer, and believe me it's not exactly easy right now I'll say that I respect that you get to enjoy what it's like to have it feel like someone gives a damn about your interests. God knows in my case it isn't happening this season and for a while it wasn't happening at all and I almost ended up quitting following anime. Hold onto that feeling and enjoy it for all it's worth cause you never know when it's going be there again or not. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 8:45 PM
Kaioshin_Sama said: I don't think there is much competition between Genshiken and Free for fans who spend money -- Genshiken may now talk about fujoshi but not all female anime fans are BL fujoshi so it won't provide the same appeal as Free. Besides, Genshiken looks at fujoshi from a real-life point of view coming from an otaku angle, whereas Free's appeal is more about standard fujoshi fantasizing. I don't think Free really steamroll other shows. It is more like the pie for this season is smaller -- if we really want to talk about "steamroll" perhaps we should talk about earlier shows that are still drawing money from female fans, like SnK and UtaPri instead. How it's conceivable that there would be much crossover in Genshiken and Free's audience I don't know, but if that is the case then just welp. The idea of Free as a steamroller that's taking other shows sales potential before they can gain an audience is a virtual nightmare scenario as far as I'm concerned and everything I fear from the likes of Kyoani and co. Kaioshin_Sama said: To be honest, this really your bias. Perhaps you put way too much stress on "plot" like many western fans do, so "things other than animation" = "plot". And even on that count, I would say that for the genres that KyoAni usually does, talking about an overarching "plot" is pretty much missing the mark.I don't typically associate Kyoani with hard effort in anything other than animation in your average season Kaioshin_Sama said: I am not any KyoAni fanboy but I do believe they take risks and keep trying new things. As I argued before, almost everything they worked on since Haruhi is some attempt to leverage their strength but try to put it in some new field. Sometimes it works (Free) sometimes it doesn't (Nichijou, and less so Tamako). Not sure if I want to call it valiant or amazing, but I absolutely believe they deserve a lot of respect and credit for their effort and vision. Right.....yes praise be to Kyoani, such risk takers and just valiant and forever doing amazing things etc etc...sigh Kaioshin_Sama said: I think KyoAni's team deserves really special praise even just for the feat of turning around the massively homophobic otaku fans to stop talking about "gay theme" or "fujoshi bait" in forums and instead mostly only focus on the story and character interactions of the anime. For an anime widely perceived to shout "gay" or "fujoshi" before it aired, keeping such a good balance between appeal to female and male fans can hardly be called easy. And I believe its success, unlike shows like UtaPri, largely lies in managing to attract fans from both sides. I think it's best left at that, I don't see any reason for extra special praise for Kyoani here. I know that's kind of just what people do, but I don't see anything particularly special about this production to warrant it. Kaioshin_Sama said: Given that the whole Free franchise is within KyoAni, at least I would say that it chips it a larger proportion of its money in the production committee compared to an adaptation work based on a manga/LN from an outside publisher. If may not be "going off on a limb" but risk-wise I would say it is higher, although the potential return is also higher too. The idea that they went off on some financial limb is entirely a constructed situation by the fans because it's like, "oh they're doing a show with handsome male characters instead of cute girls, better not alienate their fanbase *gasp" but really it's still the same sort of bland non-threatening high school club anime they always sort of come out with except with a re-skin |
symbvAug 7, 2013 8:51 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: I am not any KyoAni fanboy but I do believe they take risks and keep trying new things. As I argued before, almost everything they worked on since Haruhi is some attempt to leverage their strength but try to put it in some new field. Sometimes it works (Free) sometimes it doesn't (Nichijou, and less so Tamako). Not sure if I want to call it valiant or amazing, but I absolutely believe they deserve a lot of respect and credit for their effort and vision. Right.....yes praise be to Kyoani, such risk takers and just valiant and forever doing amazing things etc etc...sigh You don't need to tell me that, you've at least proved to me you have a general respect for the medium of anime itself and aren't just some passionless fanboy or bandwagoner. My point though is that they get all the credit all the time to such a ridiculous degree that it's become utterly meaningless when people praise them now but in the interests of not dragging this thread anymore off topic I'll leave it at that. There's just so much I find so utterly ridiculous about the anime industry right now it's best cut short before I say something I end up regretting anyway. Just gonna wait till Fall and hope for the best and peace out cause honestly I'm actually starting to get turned off anime at this rate. Just not a good time. |
Kaioshin_Sama said: Remember I asked you a few times before that you should separate the fans from the studio? Fanboy making crazy praises is one thing. Whether the studio itself deserves praise should not be dependent on how or what its fanboys say. Yes, many people may give them credit too much and too easily, but it does not mean thus we should be meaner and use a much tighter standard to judge the studio. If the studio is doing something well and putting in good effort, then it should get my priase.My point though is that they get all the credit all the time to such a ridiculous degree that it's become utterly meaningless when people praise them now but in the interests of not dragging this thread anymore off topic I'll leave it at that. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Kaioshin_Sama said: Remember I asked you a few times before that you should separate the fans from the studio? Fanboy making crazy praises is one thing. Whether the studio itself deserves praise should not be dependent on how or what its fanboys say. Yes, many people may give them credit too much and too easily, but it does not mean thus we should be meaner and use a much tighter standard to judge the studio. If the studio is doing something well and putting in good effort, then it should get my priase.My point though is that they get all the credit all the time to such a ridiculous degree that it's become utterly meaningless when people praise them now but in the interests of not dragging this thread anymore off topic I'll leave it at that. It shouldn't but in the long run whether I agree with it or not that's kind of how it is. Maybe it's different in Japan where people tend to be more rational but in Western circles that's how it is. Like honestly you have no idea how much I wish things worked the way you say they ought to cause I actually wholeheartedly agree. I swear I can still remember a time when studio fanboyism wasn't so omnipresent but that's just kind of the era we live in now and it's no secret who people have chosen as the destined winners and losers whenever it comes down to a matter of popularity, what gets praised, what gets trashed, what gets followed and what gets ignored. It's pretty evident just by reading MAL threads alone and it's a pretty big turnoff that doesn't exactly inspire me towards making nice about the matter. Take that for what you will and like I said I'll leave it at that. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 8:51 PM
jmal said: Welcome to the wacky world of Kaioshin_Sama, where an animation production subsidiary of Namco Bandai Holdings (i.e. the people behind Idolmaster) working on a school idol anime during an idol anime boom is praised week after week as a courageous and daring move expanding the studio's creative horizons, but KyoAni doing the first high profile original anime aimed specifically at women in, uh... I'm having trouble thinking of many others, is tooootally the safest of safe moves that had no possible chance of failure, even though most shows aimed at women sell mediocre or worse and the studio has no experience in this genre. And of course this view /totally/ has nothing whatsoever to do with any extremely deep-seated biases about said production studios, expressed ad naueum at every opportunity real or invented. Nay, Even the suggestion there's an unfair bias here is the most malicious form of slander and personal persecution from brain-washed zealots intent on his destruction! Look how mean they are! Sigh upon sigh, so misunderstood! I've long since moved beyond being annoyed, because ohhhhh man, it's seriously just way too funny to watch this play out now. LOL Why are people so harsh on Free? they do realize KyoAni will make something toward our tastes soon enough. It's not the end of the world. |
|
Kaioshin_Sama said: Hmm.. but aren't you also displaying some trait of Sunrise fanboy thinking when you give a sweeping thumb-down to what KyoAni does and achieves (nothing good other than animation etc) while you give mostly thumb-up for Sunrise (while many, who are not even studio fanboys, said Valvrave is nothing good other than animation - unfairly though I'd say). If we say those criticisms against Sunrise is over-generalized, unfair and biased, isn't your view on KyoAni also over-generalized, unfair and biased too? Sunrise may seem like an underdog within western fandom, as you seem to be suggesting, but it is not weak or an underdog at all in Japan - if anything it is much bigger than KyoAni for example. As I said, the sooner you drop this kind of studio rivalry thinking and make peace with yourself, the better you can see and appreciate the merits and efforts of what other studios do.It shouldn't but in the long run whether I agree with it or not that's kind of how it is. Maybe it's different in Japan where people tend to be more rational but in Western circles that's how it is. Like honestly you have no idea how much I wish things worked the way you say they ought to cause I actually wholeheartedly agree. I swear I can still remember a time when studio fanboyism wasn't so omnipresent but that's just kind of the era we live in now |
symbvAug 7, 2013 9:13 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
jmal said: Welcome to the wacky world of Kaioshin_Sama, where an animation production subsidiary of Namco Bandai Holdings (i.e. the people behind Idolmaster) working on a school idol anime during an idol anime boom is praised week after week as a courageous and daring move expanding the studio's creative horizons, but KyoAni doing the first high profile original anime aimed specifically at women in, uh... I'm having trouble thinking of many others, is tooootally the safest of safe moves that had no possible chance of failure, even though most shows aimed at women sell mediocre or worse and the studio has no experience in this genre. And of course this view /totally/ has nothing whatsoever to do with any extremely deep-seated biases about said production studios, expressed ad naueum at every opportunity real or invented. Nay, Even the suggestion there's an unfair bias here is the most malicious form of slander and personal persecution from brain-washed zealots intent on his destruction! Look how mean they are! Sigh upon sigh, so misunderstood! I've long since moved beyond being annoyed, because ohhhhh man, it's seriously just way too funny to watch this play out now. I think it was an unusual direction for Sunrise as producers and was surprisingly focused on the specifics of hard work and passion compared to what I expected but that's about it and it's hardly a daring show in my book. I also don't remember coming into the forum to praise the show week after week. I think I maybe posted once to talk about something to do with a characters development taking an unexpected turn once. It was pretty within the mold of cute girls doing cute things and clearly benefited from and jumped onto the idol trend and was clearly focus grouped for maximum appeal. In a lot of ways I sort of see Sunrise Studio 8 as an answer to Kyoto Animations model albeit with a slightly different philosophy in that they make calculations to appeal to moe fans, albeit without the slightly less over the top fandom that makes it kind of more fun to discuss with people. Kyoani's move, if I can call it that, with Free is so far ultimately safe as well in the long run because it's still kind of the same old dull tone, pacing and comedic style that Kyoani typically brings to the table. I'm not sure if I consider a switch to appealing to Fujoshi like Kuroke no Basket or Uta no Prince sama (that's too) to be of that risky a prospect when it's essentially a re-skin as I mentioned earlier. It's not a great enough departure from what we typically see out of them. As for that last part, that's the sort of thing I'm ultimately talking about. That's the Kyoani hardcore fanboy attitude 100% that utter contempt for any sort of challenge to the perceived authority of Kyoani. You people practically bring this stuff on yourself I'm sorry to say and then you complain when people give their shows a harder than usual time for their shortcomings. It makes it so hard to feel sorry for you when people actually do unfairly crap on their stuff to the point it took outright misogyny for me to really take up the position and say hold on a minute. symbv said: ]Hmm.. but aren't you also displaying some trait of Sunrise fanboy thinking when you give a sweeping thumb-down to what KyoAni does and achieves (nothing good other than animation etc) while you give mostly thumb-up for Sunrise (while many, who are not even studio fanboys, said Valvrave is nothing good other than animation - unfairly though I'd say). If we say those criticisms against Sunrise is over-generalized, unfair and biased, isn't your view on KyoAni also over-generalized, unfair and biased too? Sunrise may seem like an underdog within western fandom, as you seem to be suggesting, but it is not weak or an underdog at all in Japan - if anything it is much bigger than KyoAni for example. As I said, the sooner you drop this kind of studio rivalry thinking and make peace with yourself, the better you can see and appreciate the merits and efforts of what other studios do. Well yeah ultimately one of them produces stuff I genuinely tend to like the vibe of and the others I find dull so obviously I prefer one to the other typically. There's going to be a biased opinion in there somewhere for sure. With the Kyoani situation that is ultimately up to them, they've made shows I've enjoyed somewhat before and even Chuunibyou was kind of decent for a bit, but if the shows don't appeal to me I can't agree the praise is warranted in many cases. It has nothing to do with any sort of studio bias in that case, it's a matter of do I appreciate something or not. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 9:26 PM
Kaioshin_Sama said: Dull or interesting -- it is personal opinion, sure, but the interesting thing is while many fans find Tamako dull they find Free, to their pleasant surprise, interesting and funny. Now why would "the same old dull tone, pacing and comedic style" come out so differently? There must be something that they have done right and not exactly "same old thing" here in Free. And I am not sure if you read my post saying why Free is different from UtaPri - would you think that the otaku backclash against KyoAni would be bigger or smaller if they make Free more like UtaPri which goes almost fully on the otome appeal and leave many male fans cold? As I said, the feat that it managed to draw in substantial number of fans from both genders is not an easy one to achieve -- sure, it may be "safer" this way but it does not mean it is "easier", and it is also not "easier" for it to "re-skin" it but still make it more interesting than Tamako in many people's eyes.Kyoani's move, if I can call it that, with Free is so far ultimately safe as well in the long run because it's still kind of the same old dull tone, pacing and comedic style that Kyoani typically brings to the table. I'm not sure if I consider a switch to appealing to Fujoshi like Kuroke no Basket or Uta no Prince sama (that's too) to be of that risky a prospect when it's essentially a re-skin as I mentioned earlier. It's not a great enough departure from what we typically see out of them. |
symbvAug 7, 2013 9:29 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Kaioshin_Sama said: Dull or interesting -- it is personal opinion, sure, but the interesting thing is while many fans find Tamako dull they find Free, to their pleasant surprise, interesting and funny. Now why would "the same old dull tone, pacing and comedic style" come out so differently? There must be something that they have done right here in Free. And I am not sure if you read my post saying why Free is different from UtaPri - would you think that the otaku backclash against KyoAni would be bigger or smaller if they make Free more like UtaPri which goes almost fully on the otome appeal and leave many male fans cold? As I said, the feat that it managed to draw in substantial number of fans from both genders is not an easy one to achieve -- sure, it may be "safer" this way but it does not mean it is "easier", and it is also not "easier" for it to "re-skin" it but still make it more interesting than Tamako in many people's eyes.Kyoani's move, if I can call it that, with Free is so far ultimately safe as well in the long run because it's still kind of the same old dull tone, pacing and comedic style that Kyoani typically brings to the table. I'm not sure if I consider a switch to appealing to Fujoshi like Kuroke no Basket or Uta no Prince sama (that's too) to be of that risky a prospect when it's essentially a re-skin as I mentioned earlier. It's not a great enough departure from what we typically see out of them. It is more interesting than Tamako I agree....not that interesting though at least for me. Not much has been this season though as I've been saying so it's kind of in there with the majority. |
| It really shouldn't matter to me, but I get a sour taste in my mouth when the two shows I think should have been near the bottom of the list in terms of sales have one challenging for a top spot and the other sitting comfortably with 8K+. Talk about being disappointed with fulfilled expectations. Granted, I never really want any show to not sell well (effort and dreams and hopes dashed is a sad thing), but good Lord almighty there's a limit to my charity. I guess I'm pretty pumped that Hatarakou Maou-sama! is doing well... and Railgun is alright. And since I don't and probably never will buy any BD or DVD I can't really complain either way. This season's sales projections just look sad though. Every show I have any interest in whatsoever is projecting terribly. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: It really shouldn't matter to me, but I get a sour taste in my mouth when the two shows I think should have been near the bottom of the list in terms of sales have one challenging for a top spot and the other sitting comfortably with 8K+. Talk about being disappointed with fulfilled expectations. Granted, I never really want any show to not sell well (effort and dreams and hopes dashed is a sad thing), but good Lord almighty there's a limit to my charity. I guess I'm pretty pumped that Hatarakou Maou-sama! is doing well... and Railgun is alright. And since I don't and probably never will buy any BD or DVD I can't really complain either way. This season's sales projections just look sad though. Every show I have any interest in whatsoever is projecting terribly. Finally someone that seems to get it. It's kind of hard to see as reality and wonder if you're in the right fandom and why exactly you enjoy this stuff again when your taste is so frighteningly polar opposite of the backbone consumers and when you see what got you into anime in the first place slowly but surely become niche and what you see as the epitome of trite being consistently rewarded, but then again I look at the rest of the season and I look at the next one and hope I'll remember again soon enough. I can't see this season as a trend setter, just nobody really brought anything to the table that screams buy this super expensive disc set. It's not always and seemingly sometimes not even about the actual show I'm starting to find it, it can even be about extras or even something as seemingly innocuous as the cover art for case or an event ticket inside. When you're dealing with premium stuff incentive becomes key. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 9:46 PM
Kaioshin_Sama said: That's fair enough. It is not easy having taste that goes against the popularity trend of the broader fandom. But at least StopDropAndBowl "gets it" by keeping it down to the particular shows and not use it as the stepping board to rant against studio fanboyism or how the particular shows are nothing special or praiseworthy compared to what the studios have been doing. Although I have a feeling that he also harbors some unfavorable views of the studios making the two top shows of the season, the point is he never wades there. And this is a crucial difference that I hope you could be aware of yourself. Finally someone that seems to get it. It's kind of hard to see as reality and wonder if you're in the right fandom and why exactly you enjoy this stuff again when your taste is so frighteningly polar opposite of the backbone consumers |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Kaioshin_Sama said: StopDropAndBowl said: Finally someone that seems to get it. It's kind of hard to see as reality and wonder if you're in the right fandom and why exactly you enjoy this stuff again when your taste is so frighteningly polar opposite of the backbone consumers and when you see what got you into anime in the first place slowly but surely become niche and what you see as the epitome of trite being consistently rewarded, but then again I look at the rest of the season and I look at the next one and hope I'll remember again soon enough. I can't see this season as a trend setter, just nobody really brought anything to the table that screams buy this super expensive disc set. It's not always and seemingly sometimes not even about the actual show I'm starting to find it, it can even be about extras or even something as seemingly innocuous as the cover art for case or an event ticket inside. When you're dealing with premium stuff incentive becomes key. I get it. I mean, I have a pretty broad range of tastes and I don't necessarily feel marginalized all that much, but I definitely understand the frustration. One of my favorite movies of all time is basically the most unknown thing ever and pretty much flopped even though I think it's a fucking masterpiece of brilliance, while a lot of stuff I really don't like goes on and sells like hot-cakes and spawns whole industries of knock-off products that also go on to break records... I guess everyone except the lucky few have that kind of moment though, where you realize that personal taste is just too specific to ever be fully satiated. The more divergent or specific a personal taste is from the "norm" the worse it get's. I'm kind of lucky, I suppose, in enjoying a lot of different things, but then again, what I hate or dislike also seems pretty broad so there is that. It can be hard not begrudge the successful things you don't like when the really special stuff gets generally ignored, especially when it becomes a trend. I definitely haven't been watching anime long enough to read the trends too well, so much so that I don't even know to recognize specific studios or what-not. Even looking at sales, I can't make heads or tales of whether sales reflect my own tastes or not. I wasn't impressed with SnK, to say the least, but I kind of understand the draw, so maybe it selling so ridiculously well is good for me, maybe it isn't? I like Mushibugyou a lot, so it's disappointing to see it sell so low, but again, I can understand the motivations behind not particularly caring enough about it to buy it (comes off as "just another Shounen"), so again, maybe it's not a bad sign that it didn't do well? It's interesting how much extra's and event tickets can mean though. It makes economic sense if the things are as damned expensive as they seem, but still, I don't think extras would ever influence my decision one way or another. But then again, don't some shows still flop hard even when they go the extra mile? And then another show will use the same technique and see massive jumps? At the end of the day, I wonder if it's just a matter of helping an already successful thing be more successful. I do fear slightly the idea of extra's being too impactful, as that could potentially lead to really cheaply made stuff banking on a lot of extra's and goodies. That's probably unrealistic but that would be kind of scary, when quality of the actual show is less important than what goody-bag it comes with. symbv said: I limit myself from studio discussion most likely because I don't know anything about studios. :P Kaioshin_Sama said: That's fair enough. It is not easy having taste that goes against the popularity trend of the broader fandom. But at least StopDropAndBowl "gets it" by keeping it down to the particular shows and not use it as the stepping board to rant against studio fanboyism or how the particular shows are nothing special or praiseworthy compared to what the studios have been doing. Although I have a feeling that he also harbors some unfavorable views of the studios making the two top shows of the season, the point is he never wades there. And this is a crucial difference that I hope you could be aware of yourself. I mean, I know KyoAni, and I've seen a lot of their stuff, but other than that I can't really tell the difference between one or the other, and don't really have any special feelings about KyoAni, negative or positive. It's probably just pure ignorance keeping me from ripping on specific studios, lol. That being said, I am a little too vocal even about the shows I don't like. I shouldn't begrudge a thing for being popular when I don't like it, because at the end of the day it's not really my loss so much as it is another person's gain. Being picky about what I shower praise upon is all well and good, but I usually don't stop to think about whether that opinion is relevant before I put it out there for the world to see. |
StopDropAndBowlAug 7, 2013 11:00 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: I get it. I mean, I have a pretty broad range of tastes and I don't necessarily feel marginalized all that much, but I definitely understand the frustration. One of my favorite movies of all time is basically the most unknown thing ever and pretty much flopped even though I think it's a fucking masterpiece of brilliance, while a lot of stuff I really don't like goes on and sells like hot-cakes and spawns whole industries of knock-off products that also go on to break records... I guess everyone except the lucky few have that kind of moment though, where you realize that personal taste is just too specific to ever be fully satiated. The more divergent or specific a personal taste is from the "norm" the worse it get's. I'm kind of lucky, I suppose, in enjoying a lot of different things, but then again, what I hate or dislike also seems pretty broad so there is that. It can be hard not begrudge the successful things you don't like when the really special stuff gets generally ignored, especially when it becomes a trend. Well the other thing I should mention too is the things I tend to like the most tend to often be among the most heavily criticized (IMO overly so) so it's like I can't win with this fandom either way. It's why I'm enjoying having someone I can relate to here cause it's kind of rare these days. I definitely haven't been watching anime long enough to read the trends too well, so much so that I don't even know to recognize specific studios or what-not. Even looking at sales, I can't make heads or tales of whether sales reflect my own tastes or not. I wasn't impressed with SnK, to say the least, but I kind of understand the draw, so maybe it selling so ridiculously well is good for me, maybe it isn't? I like Mushibugyou a lot, so it's disappointing to see it sell so low, but again, I can understand the motivations behind not particularly caring enough about it to buy it (comes off as "just another Shounen"), so again, maybe it's not a bad sign that it didn't do well? It's interesting how much extra's and event tickets can mean though. It makes economic sense if the things are as damned expensive as they seem, but still, I don't think extras would ever influence my decision one way or another. But then again, don't some shows still flop hard even when they go the extra mile? And then another show will use the same technique and see massive jumps? At the end of the day, I wonder if it's just a matter of helping an already successful thing be more successful. Hard to say, but I just think the same handful of names getting consistently rewarded over and over again while others that also put the effort in just can't seem to get ahead. It makes the industry look kind of unhealthy and like it's going to die off, but maybe there's a line of revenue I'm just not seeing. It just frustrates me that people frequently celebrate every minor Kyoani and SHAFT success like it's great boon while it's like nothing else matters. I don't know how people can be so shortsighted. That's what the industry kind of feels like right now, increasingly stratified. Aniplex practically has their hands in everything now and is kind of the like the EA of the industry at this point and there's only a few studios and names right now that seem to be really getting any sort of attention and praise. I don't see how people can look at this situation and not be concerned to some extent. I do fear slightly the idea of extra's being too impactful, as that could potentially lead to really cheaply made stuff banking on a lot of extra's and goodies. That's probably unrealistic but that would be kind of scary, when quality of the actual show is less important than what goody-bag it comes with. Well at that point it kind of becomes an arms race, but I'd argue TV anime already has become that at this. It's like a race to see who can sow up this or that token buyers audience and who can appeal to that subset fanbase instead of just focusing on making a good work that the average person can just pick up and which I generally feel most anime OVA's and Movies still have down at least. TV Anime has always been very commercial what with franchises like Gundam having their roots in selling toys, but lately it's been taken to such a whole knew level that I feel it's really started to take the industry in a direction I'm not sure I like again after a couple of really interesting years. I mean, I know KyoAni, and I've seen a lot of their stuff, but other than that I can't really tell the difference between one or the other, and don't really have any special feelings about KyoAni, negative or positive. It's probably just pure ignorance keeping me from ripping on specific studios, lol. lol you'll probably here a spiel about them at some point then. Their fans don't really like it when you say the shows are hard to tell apart even if I agree it's kind of true. You don't know how lucky you are to not really be able to tell the difference between studios. I remember when I was ignorant to this stuff as well and when anime fan culture was more fun and brutally honest and less political and deification/condemnation of certain names and brands. I'll just give three guess as to which particular fandom insisted on making me aware of the "difference between this particular 'best' studio and everyone else". *eyeroll* That being said, I am a little too vocal even about the shows I don't like. I shouldn't begrudge a thing for being popular when I don't like it, because at the end of the day it's not really my loss so much as it is another person's gain. Being picky about what I shower praise upon is all well and good, but I usually don't stop to think about whether that opinion is relevant before I put it out there for the world to see. I've long since gotten over any fear of being vocal about how I feel about things. I refuse to be intimidated by the majority or popular opinion even if I know what I say is probably seen is highly controversial and can easily be construed as an example of baiting because it's such a rare set of opinions and beliefs. |
PeacingOutAug 7, 2013 11:28 PM
| Dude... isn't it gonna be more than a month before anyone even buys these things for real? I really don't think you can make any straight up "outselling" predictions at this point unless the difference is huge like 3K to 20K. I don't know shit, but if Free averages 48K I'll eat my own shorts and put it up on Youtube for the world to see. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Dude... isn't it gonna be more than a month before anyone even buys these things for real? I really don't think you can make any straight up "outselling" predictions at this point unless the difference is huge like 3K to 20K. I don't know shit, but if Free averages 48K I'll eat my own shorts and put it up on Youtube for the world to see. Just ignore bippo's posts. The majority of them in these threads have been with completely unrealistic expectations... pretty much troll baiting. Just check out the threads a few weeks before SnK v1 came out and you'll see what I mean. Also check the huge negative bias bippo has over Monogatari. |
EjcAug 8, 2013 1:31 AM
| The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
More topics from this board
» 'Suki demo Kirai na Amanojaku' Reveals Additional Cast, TrailerHyperion_PS - 7 minutes ago |
0 |
by Hyperion_PS
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
» 'Mahoutsukai no Yakusoku' Announces Production Staff, CastDatRandomDude - 25 minutes ago |
0 |
by DatRandomDude
»»
25 minutes ago |
|
» Manga 'Ninja to Koroshiya no Futarigurashi' Gets AnimeVindstot - Yesterday |
29 |
by Yui_Suzumiya69
»»
57 minutes ago |
|
» Original Anime Movie 'A New Dawn' Announced for 2025DatRandomDude - Yesterday |
3 |
by Etherius_ZS
»»
2 hours ago |
|
» 'Yuri!!! on Ice: Ice Adolescence' Anime Movie Cancels Production ( 1 2 )DatRandomDude - Apr 18 |
97 |
by Nanaca
»»
7 hours ago |