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#1
Jul 22, 2013 10:36 AM

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1. Its an inaccurate adaptation.
DEEN's Fate/Stay Night tries to merge three different game routes, which are impossible to merge - the very point of those routes is that they directly contradict each other. Merging them together in such a fashion misrepresents what the narrative is about.

2. It contains way too much anime-original material that goes against both Fate/Zero AND the source visual novel
Apparently merging the routes was not enough for Studio DEEN, so they added their own stuff too, adding stuff that directly contradicts both the source material and Fate/Zero.

3. As result of 1. and 2. the key elements of the storyline remain incomprehensible.
Adding their own stupid stuff and trying to merge the unmergeable, made sure that DEEN had to cut corners around. AS result of that, MULTIPLE plotlines are left unresolved or ambiguous, not to mention that most of finer workings of various ideas presented in the show are never explained, nor justified. What's more, even if routes WERE mergeable, Studio DEEN stuffed around 50 HOURS of material into mere ~9 hours of screentime. That alone should scream "STAY AWAY.

4. As result of 1., 2. and 3., the lead male character is made completely unlikeable
Shirou's character development and depth directly depends on over HOW MUCH of it we can see. Shirou is one of the deepest and most unique visual novel protagonists ever, but Studio DEEN made the "smart" decision of cutting out most of character insight and character development, leaving us in the dark over on how Shirou's mind works and causing the character to look like sexist chauvinist clueless idiot(while in reality he is neither of those things). And how can one enjoy the story if the lead character of it is made unlikeable?

5. DEEN's trademark animation QUALITY.
Seriously, especially for those coming from watching fate/zero, this series would be thoroughly insulting in how characters look and how poorly the action is animated. Let's not even talk about "Designs" of anime-original material and the fact that Studio DEEN specifically TONED DOWN a lot of stuff, in order to conserve budget, making it less awesome.

6. Most of characters never get the chance to truly shine.
Due to how Studio DEEN adapted this work and due to the fact on how much was cut, we lost quite a bit of character awesomeness as, indeed, its not just Shirou's character who suffered - pretty much every character lost a lot of character development, depth and badassery.

7. FSN is not about what DEEN's anime series make you think its about.
Its not about romance. Its not about stupidity.
Studio DEEN made sure to REMOVE everything that concerns the main theme of fate/stay night.

8. DEEN's FSN is in no way connected to ufotable's fate/zero.
Why? for the most simple thing - DEEN took HUGE liberties with adapting the visual novel, while ufotable stuck pretty much VERY closely to how the prequel novel is. What is the result of that? Fate/Zero completely ignores most of alterations to the storyline that Studio DEEN added to their version.

9. Ufotable is working on new version of FSN.
Seriously, why watch the inferior product that does not matter and contradicts everything else?

10. DEEN's version does not have the depth and complexity FSN has.
Most of nasuverse works are highly philosophical character journeys. By taking away crucial narrative elements, like character development, world-building and character interactions, studio DEEN took away most of the narrative's depth, only leaving half-baked poorly executed and toned-down action sequences and badly animated girls.
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What to do?
a) Read the Visual Novel instead.
b) Wait for ufotable's version of fate/stay night.
 
#2
Jul 22, 2013 10:47 AM

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I haven't played through the visual novel, but I agree that Fate/stay night is not worth watching. Especially the point on how the character designs are ugly compared to Fate Zero and how Shirou appears to be a feminist idiot and how most of the other characters don't get very developed either. Fate/stay night is actually one of my least favorite anime, to the point where I thought the recap Fate/stay night TV Reproduction was better than the original as it removed a lot of the dull conversations and filler harem comedy moments. Can't wait for ufotable's version to air though. They can surely make good of it.
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#3
Jul 23, 2013 2:55 AM

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Well Shirou IS clueless.Thats why we have Rin,Ilya,Kirei and Saber explaining things.One of the good parts of FSN if you ask me is that Shirou goes against what magi think is right ethically moral because he is clueless about how the nagi world works.

Fai take your post add some more points and put it in in the UBW movie board.
 
#4
Jul 23, 2013 5:40 AM

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ssjokg said:
Well Shirou IS clueless.Thats why we have Rin,Ilya,Kirei and Saber explaining things.One of the good parts of FSN if you ask me is that Shirou goes against what magi think is right ethically moral because he is clueless about how the nagi world works.

Fai take your post add some more points and put it in in the UBW movie board.


I would not say he's "very" clueless about magi world - he has shown to have quite a good understanding of what magi would do to the likes of him and why Kiritsugu ran away. He can adapt to various magecraft theories quite fast and is quite good at learning the stuff he is adept at. And he understands pretty well how magi association work and how cruel they could be(there's a whole segment in fate alone where he goes through on the possible ways magi association could deal with his existence or kiritsugu)

He simply chooses to ignore mage world and age ethics, because they go against what he believes. For shirou it does not matter if magi have entire world with thousands of years built upon those ideas - if its wrong, its wrong.

He is pretty much embodiment of "fuck your world and fuck you laws and your traditions, I live by what I believe in".

What he IS clueless at is the theory of magecraft itself and nuances of how the grail war works and does not have that much of talent in it, which provides the actual tension for the whole storyline as in fate you as Shirou have no idea who other masters are for quite a while, except for Rin and in other routes you just know that there are many unexpected things that could screw you over - you do not have same confidence or knowledge, like, let's say, Kiritsugu did - all you, as Shirou, have is your conviction to your goals and will to see it through.

And there's just something compelling about person who lives by his own rules and has almost no regard for his own life as long as he fulfills his purpose, that you can't help but want to have him succeed at what he is doing, one way or the other.
 
#5
Jul 23, 2013 5:56 AM

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Fai said:
ssjokg said:
Well Shirou IS clueless.Thats why we have Rin,Ilya,Kirei and Saber explaining things.One of the good parts of FSN if you ask me is that Shirou goes against what magi think is right ethically moral because he is clueless about how the nagi world works.

Fai take your post add some more points and put it in in the UBW movie board.


I would not say he's "very" clueless about magi world - he has shown to have quite a good understanding of what magi would do to the likes of him and why Kiritsugu ran away. He can adapt to various magecraft theories quite fast and is quite good at learning the stuff he is adept at. And he understands pretty well how magi association work and how cruel they could be(there's a whole segment in fate alone where he goes through on the possible ways magi association could deal with his existence or kiritsugu)

He simply chooses to ignore mage world and age ethics, because they go against what he believes. For shirou it does not matter if magi have entire world with thousands of years built upon those ideas - if its wrong, its wrong.

He is pretty much embodiment of "fuck your world and fuck you laws and your traditions, I live by what I believe in".

What he IS clueless at is the theory of magecraft itself and nuances of how the grail war works and does not have that much of talent in it, which provides the actual tension for the whole storyline as in fate you as Shirou have no idea who other masters are for quite a while, except for Rin and in other routes you just know that there are many unexpected things that could screw you over - you do not have same confidence or knowledge, like, let's say, Kiritsugu did - all you, as Shirou, have is your conviction to your goals and will to see it through.

And there's just something compelling about person who lives by his own rules and has almost no regard for his own life as long as he fulfills his purpose, that you can't help but want to have him succeed at what he is doing, one way or the other.

Pretty sure that magecraft theories and HGW rules/laws fall under the "magi world works".

And what I mean is that from everyone else's POV in the VN Shirou remains clueless.Many of the other chars explain again and again things he "should have known" as if it was a matter of fact.That he learns about them later doesnt change that before the war Kiritsugu and his training in Tracing was his only connection to the magi world.

I never said that it was bad that he was clueless.
 
#6
Jul 23, 2013 6:26 AM

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the correct term would be uninformed.

clueless fits the anime Shirou since its a stronger word than uninformed and basically showcases a person who is stumbling around the place going "what is going on, maaaan?!?!?". Basically Shinji.

Shirou is more of someone who does not have the complete information but is still capable of making decisions and putting it piece by piece as he acquires that information.
 
#7
Jul 23, 2013 6:30 AM

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Fai said:
the correct term would be uninformed.

clueless fits the anime Shirou since its a stronger word than uninformed and basically showcases a person who is stumbling around the place going "what is going on, maaaan?!?!?". Basically Shinji.

Shirou is more of someone who does not have the complete information but is still capable of making decisions and putting it piece by piece as he acquires that information.
It doesnt look that different to me as a word but ok.
 
#8
Aug 5, 2013 4:32 PM

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Having played the visual novel, I agree with all 10 reasons (waiting eagerly for ufotable's adaption.) That said, I had serious doubts about the vn because of the adaption, cementing the fact that it's a complete failure.
 
#9
Aug 6, 2013 4:22 PM

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Hey Fai, could you please elaborate on point number 2 with some examples? I've only read the VN, watched just small parts of the anime, but I'm curious about what they changed? (Apart from removing the h scenes of course).
 
Aug 6, 2013 5:31 PM

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NxK said:
Hey Fai, could you please elaborate on point number 2 with some examples? I've only read the VN, watched just small parts of the anime, but I'm curious about what they changed? (Apart from removing the h scenes of course).



That's off the top of my head, ignoring the characterization deviations, toning down of scenes and various other additions/omissions..
 
Aug 15, 2013 7:47 AM

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Entitled fan nonsense blah, blah...
 
Aug 15, 2013 9:15 AM

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It amuses me that people that have nothing to contribute or state any opinion just feel like posting some crappy comment.
 
Aug 15, 2013 9:58 AM

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I liked it, sue me.
 
Aug 15, 2013 10:07 AM
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MAN_Drake said:
Entitled fan nonsense blah, blah...


Typical troll who has a lot of free time for posting nonsense. Grow up will you? Do something productive rather than posting some bs!!!

Reverb_Shock said:
I liked it, sue me.


I initially liked it and FSN got me into interested in Type-moon. But after playing the VN, i understood just how much injustice they did to the series. Hopefully the remake will be a good one.

On topic Fai, well said.

 
Aug 15, 2013 10:11 AM

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PerfectScore said:
If you are short on time and want to get enough source material before watching Carnival Phantasm, I think the TV reproduction summary should be enough to understand the basic underline of the characters. Fortunately ufotable is recreating Fate/Stay Night, so we can all wait for that. For the meantime, we can pretend Fate/Kaleid liner Prisma Illya is the unofficial anime sequel to Fate/Zero.


But that's the problem. DEEN's adaptation misrepresents characters by quite A LOT.

Its easier to understand the said characters in CP without seeing the anime, lol.

Also we do not need to pretend that Prisma Illya is unofficial sequel, since its an official sequel...of alternate version of f/0 :)
Modified by Ahenshihael, Aug 15, 2013 11:47 AM
 
Aug 22, 2013 9:48 PM
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I admittedly liked the anime a lot. But, having said that I watched it having ZERO knowledge of the series aside from the fact that there was a VN. But having read all of the hate, I really feel I need to try to find the VN to fill the bitter void of pacing, if nothing else.
 
Aug 23, 2013 2:55 AM

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Lord_isnan2009 said:
I admittedly liked the anime a lot. But, having said that I watched it having ZERO knowledge of the series aside from the fact that there was a VN. But having read all of the hate, I really feel I need to try to find the VN to fill the bitter void of pacing, if nothing else.
When I first watched FSN I didnt even know what Type Moon and Visual Novels are.I liked it enough to look for the VN.The rest are obvious if you look at my posts and profile.
 
Sep 3, 2013 2:41 AM

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I do not believe someone should just skip out on something because the original version is better. I do not play VNs, but I want to enjoy the Fate series, so why not?
 
Sep 3, 2013 2:44 AM

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ClawViper7 said:
I do not believe someone should just skip out on something because the original version is better. I do not play VNs, but I want to enjoy the Fate series, so why not?

It isnt about the VN being better.FZ's light novel is better than the anime but you dont see anyone saying the same thing like with FSN.
It is about enjoying it for the story it has.FSN anime is more about SaberXShirou Twilight style, than the Holy Grail War.
 
Sep 5, 2013 5:35 PM

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ClawViper7 said:
I do not believe someone should just skip out on something because the original version is better. I do not play VNs, but I want to enjoy the Fate series, so why not?


Its not about what is better or worse.

DEEN's FSN anime to FSN VN is what Twilight is to Bram Stoker's Dracula.
 
Sep 18, 2013 5:12 PM

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Why the heck do you care if I watch this or not?
Life has meaning.
 
Sep 19, 2013 3:12 AM

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Jakerific said:
Why the heck do you care if I watch this or not?

Because if you watch it and start bitching about the story being badly written and not making sense it wont be the original's fault nor Fai's if you even after all that go ahead and watch the anime while expecting something like FZ.
 
Sep 19, 2013 9:28 PM

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ssjokg said:
Jakerific said:
Why the heck do you care if I watch this or not?

Because if you watch it and start bitching about the story being badly written and not making sense it wont be the original's fault nor Fai's if you even after all that go ahead and watch the anime while expecting something like FZ.


...and what if I said that I like this anime and I haven't watched Fate/Zero (yet)??
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Sep 20, 2013 3:14 AM

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Jakerific said:
ssjokg said:
Jakerific said:
Why the heck do you care if I watch this or not?

Because if you watch it and start bitching about the story being badly written and not making sense it wont be the original's fault nor Fai's if you even after all that go ahead and watch the anime while expecting something like FZ.


...and what if I said that I like this anime and I haven't watched Fate/Zero (yet)??

Then you just liked an average anime that is based on a story,not an adaptation.Nothing wrong with that.

The whole thread is for those that want to actually understand the chars and the lore without having to guess what is going on or just accept it.
 
Sep 20, 2013 7:25 AM

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don't watch it
 
Sep 20, 2013 6:08 PM

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Captain_Hawkes said:
don't watch it


I'm 23 episodes in and I like it, I'm not stopping now XD
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Sep 25, 2013 5:58 AM

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So much hate, about to watch the Fate/Zero's etc. and maybe I'll change my mind after, but I liked the FSN series a lot. Christ, it got a 9 from me.


Anime adaptations are rarely bang on, but they have created something enjoyable even if it isn't entirely accurate. Maybe the fact it is called FSN annoys you more than anything? I could understand if I played the LN etc. and then watched it and if it did it an injustice being annoyed, but the fact is the majority of people watching this won't have played squat or done any background into it and willl have just happened upon it (an assumption, but not unreasonable I think you would agree).


As a stand alone action/romance anime (which it is classified as, so don't be surprise if there is a someone x someone involved) it's a decent anime. Maybe as an adaptation it fails, but as an anime it's a decent watch.
One day we will come upon each other, and for that day my claws, teeth, ears, hands and hair are at the ready.
 
Sep 25, 2013 6:00 AM

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DriveYouCrazy said:
So much hate, about to watch the Fate/Zero's etc. and maybe I'll change my mind after, but I liked the FSN series a lot. Christ, it got a 9 from me.


Anime adaptations are rarely bang on, but they have created something enjoyable even if it isn't entirely accurate. Maybe the fact it is called FSN annoys you more than anything? I could understand if I played the LN etc. and then watched it and if it did it an injustice being annoyed, but the fact is the majority of people watching this won't have played squat or done any background into it and willl have just happened upon it (an assumption, but not unreasonable I think you would agree).


As a stand alone action/romance anime (which it is classified as, so don't be surprise if there is a someone x someone involved) it's a decent anime. Maybe as an adaptation it fails, but as an anime it's a decent watch.

I found it average before reading the VN.
 
Sep 25, 2013 6:52 AM

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Meh, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but find it surprising that this anime has such a large anti-fan base (I guess that would be the correct term?), but I guess a popular loose adaptation will get that.
One day we will come upon each other, and for that day my claws, teeth, ears, hands and hair are at the ready.
 
Sep 25, 2013 8:22 AM

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DriveYouCrazy said:
Meh, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but find it surprising that this anime has such a large anti-fan base (I guess that would be the correct term?), but I guess a popular loose adaptation will get that.

It isnt hard to find holes in the anime.Which story wise doesnt make it great.
 
Sep 29, 2013 2:14 AM

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i'd like to say something, Fai i think u're complaining too much, i watched the anime and played part of the VN fate route and found nothing inconsistent between the two. i watched the anime first and then read fate, personally i feel deen represented the characters and set the tone just fine, to elaborate on this when i read the VN it felt very light hearted and calm, that's the exact same feeling i get watching the anime. The characters personalities remained the same too as well most of the story.

so honestly don't see what the problem is, i think you think the anime sucks simply because u read the novel first and expected to get the same feelings out from the anime

sure they made some minor changes but most of the feelings was the same and i'm pretty sure if you do a plot and timeline poster you will find most of the events that happen are the same.[u/]

but i do think it was epic fail attempt to establish the relationship between Rin and Sakura.
Modified by I_Am_Awesome, Sep 29, 2013 2:22 AM
wakka9ca said:"The endless debate between fans and haters... is totaly pointless"

 
Sep 29, 2013 2:16 AM

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ssjokg said:
DriveYouCrazy said:
Meh, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but find it surprising that this anime has such a large anti-fan base (I guess that would be the correct term?), but I guess a popular loose adaptation will get that.

It isnt hard to find holes in the anime.Which story wise doesnt make it great.

this i agree with
wakka9ca said:"The endless debate between fans and haters... is totaly pointless"

 
Dec 1, 2013 6:40 PM

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I too watched the anime before reading the visual novel.

I didn't find it to be THAT bad. But yeah, I definitely recommend reading the visual novel over the anime. If you have around 50 hours of spare time, read the visual novel. It's worth it.

As a general rule, ALL visual novel adaptations will have tons of flaws, due to scenes being cut out, resulting in less developed characters in the anime. It's inevitable.
 
Dec 1, 2013 7:30 PM

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I_Am_Awesome said:
i'd like to say something, Fai i think u're complaining too much, i watched the anime and played part of the VN fate route and found nothing inconsistent between the two. i watched the anime first and then read fate, personally i feel deen represented the characters and set the tone just fine, to elaborate on this when i read the VN it felt very light hearted and calm, that's the exact same feeling i get watching the anime. The characters personalities remained the same too as well most of the story.


You mean except for the fact that Shirou is litterally 180 degree different from his VN counterpart, the events are toned down from the way they happen in the VN and the actual character development is removed.

fate in VN was basically a cat and mouse game of "find the master". there's nothing lighthearted at that. DEEN's FSN turned it into sexist dating sim.



sure they made some minor changes but most of the feelings was the same and i'm pretty sure if you do a plot and timeline poster you will find most of the events that happen are the same.[u/]


Except not. They took the certain VN events and added them in the same order into otherwise ENTIRELY different narrative.


MCsq2 said:
I too watched the anime before reading the visual novel.

I didn't find it to be THAT bad. But yeah, I definitely recommend reading the visual novel over the anime. If you have around 50 hours of spare time, read the visual novel. It's worth it.

As a general rule, ALL visual novel adaptations will have tons of flaws, due to scenes being cut out, resulting in less developed characters in the anime. It's inevitable.



The difference is that most of adaptations STILL relatively follow the plot and logic of the VN.

DEEN's FSN is litterally "fuck this, let's do something random"
 
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