| Everything in life is predetermined. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
LanaAqua said: Mostly it's chosen, but there are cases of predetermined. I know of people who were born a male with no Adam's apple and look exactly like a girl and has no male traits aside from sexual organs. And those people aren't all gay, so that's not really predetermined. And any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. |
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| Attraction is not a choice. You just don't go, I'm attracted to this person because I chose to be attracted to them. That just doesn't make sense. I mean yeah you can say I chose to fuck this chick/dude because they are hot but that's not at all attraction. |
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| I think that there are probably things that happen when someone goes through puberty that play a big role in it. Does it really matter if they are born that way? Honestly I think this is a topic that can't really be explained by any of us, and it's kind of stupid to try. There's a lot more to it then "are they gay, or are they not gay". Edit: OP you might want to look into the research Alfred Kinsey did on sexual orientation, and the "Kinsey Scale". |
FintanJul 20, 2013 3:28 PM
| being a person who does believe in god and is a Christian and going to school for psychology We are born with a sinful nature and that sinful nature comes out in various forms we as humans love to sin but anyway so homosexuality is a choice and is a fruit of that sinful nature ( I also would like to say that being gay is not a super sin or anything its just as bad as looking at the opposite sex with lustful eyes or any sin) if you wish to talk to me more about this or anything please do just a different view on it |
| I like the biological theory. |
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LOL said: These factors, which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual orientation, include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. The only truth. >O |
Jaguer91Jul 20, 2013 3:39 PM
I luv u |
| It is not a choice for what you like. However, it is your choice to take it further. 50/50 |
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hentai_proxy said: I think the question of proportionality between environmental and genetic factors in determining sexual orientation is for the geneticists to answer through a rigorous application of the scientific method. Unaware of (and disinterested in) the specific studies that community, I do not feel qualified to make a claim; since you are interested, why don't you take a look at the publications and decide for yourself? ps: I am having pork for dinner The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004: “ Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.[3][148] ” The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006: “ Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.[2] ” The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007: “ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[4] ” What they had to say. Sounds like none of them completely agree lol. Which is why I mentioned it was stupid for us to act like we know why. So I agree with you. |
| In these kind of discussions I'm way more interested in why you search for the answers and what you want to do once you find them. I also think that the discussion will go further this way rather than guessing about psychology and biology when you have no deeper knowledge in the fields. Sure, you can have your "opinion", but it's based on jack, really. Let's have something everyone can bite on instead. If we say we manage to find out there's a bunch of reasons to someone being homosexual, what are we going to do with this information? start turning people straight or just appreciate that we have some more knowledge about the world? can we start looking down on people who "choose" to be gay now? |
NtaigJul 20, 2013 3:45 PM
Jaguer91 said: LOL said: These factors, which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual orientation, include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. The only truth. >O Yes, but of course environmental factors don't mean anything. Right? |
| all i know is that every single homosexual friend i've had, both men and women, identify themselves as being so from birth. I have no reason to doubt that. Some I have known from childhood and they were always the way they are. /observational data ^^ |
simon999 said: shut up.being a person who does believe in god and is a Christian and going to school for psychology We are born with a sinful nature and that sinful nature comes out in various forms we as humans love to sin but anyway so homosexuality is a choice and is a fruit of that sinful nature ( I also would like to say that being gay is not a super sin or anything its just as bad as looking at the opposite sex with lustful eyes or any sin) if you wish to talk to me more about this or anything please do just a different view on it |
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| It's gay. |
| Smiles and laughter are always good, but never forget your Poker Face.~ |
daintybiscuit said: all i know is that every single homosexual friend i've had, both men and women, identify themselves as being so from birth. I have no reason to doubt that. Some I have known from childhood and they were always the way they are. /observational data ^^ You can't even know things like that at birth so that's just silly. You don't even remember the first 3 years of your life, let alone the moment you came out of the womb, so 'knowing it since birth' is a bunch of bullshit. Environmental factors and all that come into play the moment you're outside of mommy anyway - so 'since birth' wouldn't really mean it's not a decision; just that it might be a subconscious one. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: And any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. Are you fucking retarded? This post is so stupid, it's hard to tell if you're even being serious. It's possible to acknowledge something which is well documented whilst still being proud of it. Which by the way, "gay pride" doesn't specifically mean pride of being gay, but rather pride of accepting who you are. I'm not proud of my race, my gender, or my sexuality; these things are out of my grasp. What I am proud of, is being able to accept these things. |
TrapaliciousJul 20, 2013 4:38 PM
Trapalicious said: TallonKarrde23 said: And any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. Are you fucking retarded? This post is so stupid, it's hard to tell if you're even being serious. It's possible to acknowledge something which is well documented whilst still being proud of it. Being personally proud of something (as in, you feel said pride towards yourself, not 'im proud of you' to someone else or something else) you had no hand in is pretty pathetic. Gay pride, whatever-nation pride, and so on really should just stop being a thing. If you're proud of something it should be something you had some effect on. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: Trapalicious said: TallonKarrde23 said: And any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. Are you fucking retarded? This post is so stupid, it's hard to tell if you're even being serious. It's possible to acknowledge something which is well documented whilst still being proud of it. Being personally proud of something (as in, you feel said pride towards yourself, not 'im proud of you' to someone else or something else) you had no hand in is pretty pathetic. Gay pride, whatever-nation pride, and so on really should just stop being a thing. 1. I agree, people should take little pride in (if any) in things they did not personally accomplish. 2. You're still completely misunderstanding what Gay Pride is. |
Trapalicious said: 1. I agree, people should take little pride in (if any) in things they did not personally accomplish. 2. You're still completely misunderstanding what Gay Pride is. I mean it on the level of parades, television, websites, how they sometimes act (they being anyone, gays, mexicans, whatever) and so on about whatever it is they are overly prideful about that wasn't something they accomplished. Quietly being proud of yourself for accepting who you are is one thing and everyone - not just gays- do this. Everyone has trouble accepting who they are in one way or another, and it's fucking difficult for everyone, but we all do it. I don't mind that, but I don't feel all that other stuff is that at all. I worded things poorly earlier. |
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| If it was a choice, then there would be far less gay people in the world. Why would you want to choose something that doesn't give you any kind of benefit, and may even do more harm than good if you live in certain parts of the world. You can't choose who you're attracted to, just like you can't choose if you're left or right handed. Those things are predetermined from birth |
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simon999 said: being a person who does believe in god and is a Christian and going to school for psychology We are born with a sinful nature and that sinful nature comes out in various forms we as humans love to sin but anyway so homosexuality is a choice and is a fruit of that sinful nature ( I also would like to say that being gay is not a super sin or anything its just as bad as looking at the opposite sex with lustful eyes or any sin) if you wish to talk to me more about this or anything please do just a different view on it Assuming it was a sin - which should at least be questionable in the light of all these passing generations of people interpreting christian belief and the bible being a mere best-of of different scriptures of different origins. It really does not matter. If we all sin - homosexuality would be only one of many. And apparently Christ even forgives us all our sins. So why this nitpicking, all this preaching and all this hate towards this one. If you really want to preach then wouldn't it be better to start with the grave sins like gluttony or greed. Never seen the same engagement in bashing the fat and rich. No the one commiting these sins are usually the 'believers' who have to tell others how they have to live their lives. It is such a joke - the sinners bashing other sinners because they are sinners. *rant end* (at least gotten that steam out of the system) |
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| One's on the tv i saw a explanation. That homosexuality had something to do with the brain and it was some kind of handicap. I actually thought that makes sense. That some women parts got messed up with the manly brain or something like that. |
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Harii said: If it was a choice, then there would be far less gay people in the world. Why would you want to choose something that doesn't give you any kind of benefit, and may even do more harm than good if you live in certain parts of the world. You can't choose who you're attracted to, just like you can't choose if you're left or right handed. Those things are predetermined from birth Not all choices are made consciously. We have some choices made for us within our heads based on what goes on around us, how we're raised, and a million other varying factors - ESPECIALLY as babies and children. That much is a fact. It has a massive impact on every single aspect of the person you are and who you become, even as an adult your main personality, morals, views, and so on are still impacted by those early factors. The only thing you can question is if sexuality is one of those subconscious choices as well. Predetermined or 'born that way' would mean it happens without any relation to anything else in the world - you are literally popped out of the womb as a homosexual. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: LOL Then in that case some time in my development as a fetus, I "chose" to have 5 fingers on each hand.Not all choices are made consciously. We have some choices made for us within our heads based on what goes on around us, how we're raised, and a million other varying factors - ESPECIALLY as babies and children. That much is a fact. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
TallonKarrde23 said: you're so ignorant.daintybiscuit said: all i know is that every single homosexual friend i've had, both men and women, identify themselves as being so from birth. I have no reason to doubt that. Some I have known from childhood and they were always the way they are. /observational data ^^ You can't even know things like that at birth so that's just silly. You don't even remember the first 3 years of your life, let alone the moment you came out of the womb, so 'knowing it since birth' is a bunch of bullshit. Environmental factors and all that come into play the moment you're outside of mommy anyway - so 'since birth' wouldn't really mean it's not a decision; just that it might be a subconscious one. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: Not all choices are made consciously. We have some choices made for us within our heads based on what goes on around us, how we're raised, and a million other varying factors - ESPECIALLY as babies and children. That much is a fact. It has a massive impact on every single aspect of the person you are and who you become, even as an adult your main personality, morals, views, and so on are still impacted by those early factors. The only thing you can question is if sexuality is one of those subconscious choices as well. Predetermined or 'born that way' would mean it happens without any relation to anything else in the world - you are literally popped out of the womb as a homosexual. Then it's not much of a "choice" now, is it? And with that logic, it's impossible for someone who has been born and raised in a strict heterosexual society to turn out gay because that will be the norm. What kind of factor would suddenly turn a heterosexual into a homosexual when they're still children? |
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Sourire said: TallonKarrde23 said: you're so ignorant.daintybiscuit said: all i know is that every single homosexual friend i've had, both men and women, identify themselves as being so from birth. I have no reason to doubt that. Some I have known from childhood and they were always the way they are. /observational data ^^ You can't even know things like that at birth so that's just silly. You don't even remember the first 3 years of your life, let alone the moment you came out of the womb, so 'knowing it since birth' is a bunch of bullshit. Environmental factors and all that come into play the moment you're outside of mommy anyway - so 'since birth' wouldn't really mean it's not a decision; just that it might be a subconscious one. Please say how rather than just making a generic statement without a single point explaining why - otherwise it's just a fallacy and you're blindly saying I'm wrong without a single reason for it. It's proven fact that human beings do not retain the first moments of life. You cannot know anything since birth - it's a proven scientific impossibility of the human fucking brain. Harii said: TallonKarrde23 said: Not all choices are made consciously. We have some choices made for us within our heads based on what goes on around us, how we're raised, and a million other varying factors - ESPECIALLY as babies and children. That much is a fact. It has a massive impact on every single aspect of the person you are and who you become, even as an adult your main personality, morals, views, and so on are still impacted by those early factors. The only thing you can question is if sexuality is one of those subconscious choices as well. Predetermined or 'born that way' would mean it happens without any relation to anything else in the world - you are literally popped out of the womb as a homosexual. Then it's not much of a "choice" now, is it? And with that logic, it's impossible for someone who has been born and raised in a strict heterosexual society to turn out gay because that will be the norm. What kind of factor would suddenly turn a heterosexual into a homosexual when they're still children? What? It's not "born that way" or "predetermined" just because it's a choice that gets made for you. I did not say environmental factors and how you were raised = this is what decides if you're gay or not. I said those things, among others which also form who we become in general, ***MAY*** effect that. Please read what people say before you spout your fucking mouth off. The same way someone may go from being a normal person to locking themselves in their fucking room for 6 years out of nowhere with no explanation for it. Something in your head made a decision you're entirely unaware of - you only know the consequence. I can speak on that much from personal experience and basic scientific and psychological knowledge - things get decided for you by you based on things you might not notice, but they do happen. These aren't pre-determined because there is no "pre" there - they are determined by your head over time. Pre-determined or 'since birth' implies it was something factually set to "on" or "off" within you the moment you were conceived. Something like katsucat's post - fingers. Unless something goes wrong, you having 10 fingers total is pre-determined. Having two legs, having a dick or a vag, having all your insides properly placed and created. I am not saying sexuality is predetermined or not predetermined - I'm saying if it's not something factually set 100% within you from the moment you're growing in the womb then it is - BY DEFINITION - NOT PREDETERMINED AT BIRTH. There may be something that makes someone more POSSIBLY OPEN to becoming that way in their subconscious mind that they are born with too - which would still result in the person consciously or not making a CHOICE. I'm only pointing out the possibilities that are all proven to be possible while pointing out the scientific flaws in other ones. |
TallonKarrde23Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM
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| I believe it to be pre determined but i wouldn't know. You would have to ask a gay person, but it might be different for different people. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: I mean it on the level of parades, television, websites, how they sometimes act (they being anyone, gays, mexicans, whatever) and so on about whatever it is they are overly prideful about that wasn't something they accomplished. Quietly being proud of yourself for accepting who you are is one thing and everyone - not just gays- do this. Everyone has trouble accepting who they are in one way or another, and it's fucking difficult for everyone, but we all do it. I don't mind that, but I don't feel all that other stuff is that at all. I worded things poorly earlier. Well then yeah, I agree mostly. Gay parades for the most part do the complete opposite of what they're trying to do. They've become less political and too focused on pride. Which would be okay, if it weren't for the fact that there's still countless issues to complain about. EDIT: Anyway on topic. I think the Nature vs Nurture question is useless. For the most part, the entire discussion to me comes off as justification of hatred. As if to say the only reason to accept LGBT people is on the basis that they had no other choice in the matter. I believe sexuality comes down to a mixture of both nature and life experiences.I identified as straight until I was around 16, when a few things happened. From there on, I started finding myself more attracted to the same sex. Around 2 years later, I started identifying as bisexual. It's possible my sexuality is the same as it always has been, and I didn't realize at first, but I don't think it's that simple. |
TrapaliciousJul 20, 2013 5:21 PM
katsucats said: Everything in life is predetermined. You know what he means, stop being a pedant. |
InfiniteRufus said: Everything we do is pedantic.katsucats said: You know what he means, stop being a pedant.Everything in life is predetermined. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I'd say it's either pre-determined or affected by environmental experiences at a young age. I say this because I don't know straight people who can look at someone of same gender and find them romantically attractive. There are people however who can fall in love with a person from a gender they're not attracted to, and from that love be attracted to them physically and mentally, though probably not as much physically as they would if it was a gender they were attracted to. Doctors say pedophelia has no cure and people diagnosed with this disease can only control their urges whether it be easily or difficulty. I'm sure these people would love to have the ability to choose to turn off their attractions; or at least I hope they would. |
daintybiscuit said: all i know is that every single homosexual friend i've had, both men and women, identify themselves as being so from birth. I have no reason to doubt that. Some I have known from childhood and they were always the way they are. /observational data ^^ I really doubt they wanted dick even when they were a toddler. TallonKarrde23 said: It wasn't my choice to have a huge schlong. I'm still proud of it. No regrets, yo.And any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. |
| I'm cooler than a cooler Big shouts out to my jeweler Bitch Chief Sosa stack dat mula JezusBull said: Ohh the ignorant masses, poor, ignorant people. Kimi no Iru Machi said: Whether it's in Tokyo or the countryside, panties will always remain the same. And the heart of the man who tries his best is also the same. |
| "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice." - Royal College of Psychiatrists "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice." - Professor Michael King, Head of the Department of Academic Psychiatry at the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine These are SIMPLE quotes that can be found on Wikipedia, By now I am baffled at people who still believe that "Homosexuality is a choice." ... Are you mentally feeble? Were you dropped on your head when you were a child, and although retarded you now may be, thank the lord in heaven you aren't one of those Homosexual Devils. There are a few theories on the "source" of homosexuality, however all credible theories involve Biology. The theory that Homosexuality IS a choice is as fucking retarded as they come, even more downs than Intelligent Design, or heck, even 2012 had more logic behind it (and all it had going for it was that after predicting the lunar cycle for 5,000 years, the Mayans got bored and stopped carving dates in stone, which btw, we with our advance technology, don't predict the lunar cycle 5,000 years in to the future). Lemme ask you one simple question, would someone intentionally gimp themselves? Put themselves at a clear disadvantage? Many choose to believe that homosexuality is a choice, and that somehow those who are "gay" are doing so to spite god or some other retarded idea, but why would they do this? Why would someone choose to live a life, where society views homosexuality as being "evil" or "wrong"? Why would somebody intentionally choose to become a homosexual, knowing full well they are 4-5 times more likely to attempt suicide due to societal condemnation? What makes me sick, aren't the "hill billies down south that are marrying their own sister", or "the tycoons profiting off of the misfortune of others", but the illiterate brain dead morons who still think that Science is "witch craft". Because after all, if you choose to believe that Homosexuality IS a choice, you also believe that the fact that every study on homosexuality clearly, without fail, rejects the theory that "homosexuality is a choice" A few other things to note, alot of people believe that Homosexuality has something to do with puberty since that is around the time people start "becoming" gay. However this is slightly incorrect, when an individual hits puberty, the become aware of their sexuality (i.e. hitting puberty is when you discover you are attracted to x where x is a gender or feature). So while it is true that one discovers they are "gay" during puberty, whether one is hetero or homosexual has nothing to do with puberty. I personally have found some interesting theories that have been exploring the correlation between the number of sons a mother has and the probability that each subsequent son will be homosexual. However whether or not this is true or simply just a correlation, from what I have read, has yet to be determined. |
Pirating_NinjaJul 20, 2013 8:33 PM
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| Whoa there boy, simmer down. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
TallonKarrde23 said: That doesn't make any sense. Any gay people better say it's a choice - saying it wasn't their choice is like showing they regret being the way they are, which kind of negates all that gay pride shit. Sorry if you're trolling, I can't tell. Edit: Never mind, you already had this conversation. Just leave me be.. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
katsucats said: Everything in life is predetermined. I agree |
| I have really funny thoughts that no one will get to hear. |
| I wouldn't know since I'm not gay... Although my brain doesn't like extremes, so I'll say "both". |
LanaAqua said: I'm not gay.MellowJello said: Be honest to yourself.I wouldn't know since I'm not gay... HONEST. |
| I've gotten different answers from gay/lesbian people as well. Some claim it's a choice, others claim they were born this way. A transgender girl I know claims she was born a girl though. |
| A match made in heaven set the fires in hell |
| reminds me of the article i read long ago here http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/12/what-we-knowand-dont-knowabout-the-biology-of-homosexuality/ homosexuality is a strategy to get girls too as stated on that article, you know a lot of girls love yaoi materials so its another strategy to fuck girls by giving them what they like |
| I found this cartoon a while back. Thought it could contribute to this discussion somehow.. |
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