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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Wow they finally did a prologue for a movie, and this one was actually pretty well made and informative (<3 that OST omg!) It's nice to see Virgil and team Eevee again but as expected the star of this show is Mewtwo and its forme change, the new trailer aired at the end along with next week's preview which showcases two of the new pokemons from X and Y |
| It was pretty good actually. The new form of Mewtwo was awesome. |
| Mewtwo is BADASS!!!! Nuno18 said: This might be retarded, but is it the same mewtwo from the first movie? i was young when i saw it and it was in english and it had a male voice, now its a female voice, Also i hope that like if its the same mewtwo at least he could remember pikachu and satoshi Let's hope its the same VA when the English Dub comes out. I am thinking it's not the same Mewtwo that Satoshi and Pikachu knew. Wouldn't he be with his clones and Mew too? This Mewtwo has the new form. Plus he forgot his faith in humanity. I wonder if his new form has something to do with Genoscect? Involving DNA |
| Didn't that old guy look like the president of the pokemon league?? Loved the PV of mewtwo and Genesect fighting in New York City! |
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| Just having Mewtwo back made me so happy! I hope Dan Green can do the voice for Mewtwo again. If he can things in the Pokemon fandom will stir up. :D |
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| lol wtfff thot mewtwo already knew ash............. |
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| Guys, this is a different Mewtwo. "It has a similar background to the Mewtwo that appeared in Mewtwo Strikes Back, but is a distinct, separate individual." |
| Is Virgil played by Kaji Yuki, lol? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
MelbShaw said: Is Virgil played by Kaji Yuki, lol? Indeed, He is. Special was ok... I was kinda hoping that it would reveal more about Mewtwo's past, because it was different Mewtwo? Where did it come? Is it clone? Doesn't make sense... |
NMx13Jul 21, 2013 7:44 AM
NMx13 said: MelbShaw said: Is Virgil played by Kaji Yuki, lol? Indeed, He is. Special was ok... I was kinda hoping that it would reveal more about Mewtwo's past, because it was different Mewtwo? Where did it come? Is it clone? Doesn't make sense... NMx13 said: MelbShaw said: Is Virgil played by Kaji Yuki, lol? Indeed, He is. Special was ok... I was kinda hoping that it would reveal more about Mewtwo's past, because it was different Mewtwo? Where did it come? Is it clone? Doesn't make sense... My guess that when Team Plasma created Genescet, Mewtwo was born too. In the process caused him to have that new form. Both Genescet and Mewtwo are connected in some way. Hopefully the movie sheds some light. |
| The original Mewtwo had a deeper voice in both Japanese and English. If the dub wants to be the same, they should give Mewtwo a softer voice, but it'll all depend on the context of the movie. I think it's strange when we see multiple legendaries because of how rare they should be, but Mewtwo is a clone and having a new one with a different origin wouldn't be too bad. |
| So let me get this straight. The original Mewtwo was cloned after years of painstaking experiments from the DNA of a single piece of a fossil of an ancient Mew that took God knows how long to find deep in some jungle(which seems like a one-time find kind of thing). Now there’s supposed to be ANOTHER Mewtwo who would have to be created the same way? Keep in mind that all data regarding Mewtwo’s creation and whatnot was destroyed in his escape from the lab. So in order to create another Mewtwo, some scientists would have had to find another Mew fossil or DNA sample and go through all the same experiments. Is it just me, or does the new Mewtwo thing have more holes in it than a Dutch dam made of Swiss cheese? -__- (not to mention that the new Mewtwo is clearly a pushover compared to the strength of the original. You know, the Mewtwo who couldn't even be scratched by anything other than Mew?) Just my two cents. |
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| ^First of all, don't expect consistency from the Pokémon Anime. It's not the first time that there's a "second" legendary Pokémon, just from the top of my head, there was also a Mew in Movie 8, and a Jirachi in Decolora Adventures (and Jirachi is supposed to awaken every 1000 years). Second, how do you know exactly who and how created this particular Mewto and how long have they been trying to? My two cents is that you are one of those people who keep saying that new Pokémon is crap, just because they aren't kids anymore to enjoy it the same way as they could the original. Although please forgive me if my accusation is wrong. |
Aclos said: ^First of all, don't expect consistency from the Pokémon Anime. It's not the first time that there's a "second" legendary Pokémon, just from the top of my head, there was also a Mew in Movie 8, and a Jirachi in Decolora Adventures (and Jirachi is supposed to awaken every 1000 years). Second, how do you know exactly who and how created this particular Mewto and how long have they been trying to? My two cents is that you are one of those people who keep saying that new Pokémon is crap, just because they aren't kids anymore to enjoy it the same way as they could the original. Although please forgive me if my accusation is wrong. Nah your accusation isn't really wrong XD. I'm definitely one of those guys who considers the new Pokémon to be of arguably inferior quality when compared with Gen 1-3 (Gen 4 was ok but Gen 5 actually left me feeling insulted.) That said, I know that while part of my dislike for the new generations lies with a sense of attachment to the old, much of it lies with the noticeable decrease in overall quality. As far as your points regarding alternate appearances by Mew and Jirachi, I was always under the impression that the Mew in Movie 8 was the same Mew as in Movie 1. As for the Jirachi bit, I haven't actually watched Decolora Adventures so I can’t really comment :P Regarding your question as to my assumptions on Mewtwo, I will say this. Mewtwo was created via manipulation of the genetic material of Mew. I was always under the impression that Mewtwo was totally unique and can only be replicated through the same means used to create the original. He’s not a naturally occurring Pokémon. He’s man-made, a product of gene splicing; and genetic engineering requires an appropriate base DNA. For example, I’m sure you can clone a monkey using monkey DNA, but you can’t create, say, a cow from monkey DNA. There’s just too much difference in the genetic material. In order to create the Pokémon that is Mewtwo, you would need to work with the DNA of Mew, which is portrayed as nigh on impossible to obtain. As for the possibility of multiple legendaries of the same species, I don’t doubt that. In fact, I always assumed there could be multiples of legendaries like the bird trio. If I remember correctly, in Pokémon 2000 they are referred to as a species of Pokémon. This kind of implies that existence of others of its kind. Again, Mewtwo is not natural, so he doesn’t really fit this logic. If you’ve got anything else to point out please do. It’s been awhile since I was into Pokémon, and it’d be nice to leave this conversation with more information about the newer stuff so I can get caught up ^_^ |
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| First of all, I suggest you play the Generation 4 and 5 games through. There are ways to play it for free on your PC, but I can't help you with that. Then you should check back on Generation 1-3 and realise that the newer Pokémon games are far superior in every possible way, especially when looking at competetive play, but even in single player. I'm being 100% serious and yes, I've played the original ones back in the day. Please, if you are already reading this, take 40 seconds of your life, and watch this video: (if you are still unsure about the games, just lurk around bulbapedia, serebii, or smogon) Now that we're done wtih the games, let's take a look at the anime. Let's start with that I agree that the overall quality has decreased compared to gen3 and gen4 anime in the main series, unfortunately in more than one aspect. But that doesn't really have to do anything with this particular episode, so going into details would just make this post five times longer, and you ain't even watching it. The whole reason for this specail was to showcase the new form of Mewtwo and to make people more interested in the movie, which I think it did pretty well. Just a few minor things: Mewtwo is genderless, so stop referring to it as "he"; Maybe you should try watching the "parent story" before trying to comment on a "side story"; Just forget about Movie 1 and the Mewtwo in it, because it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Why do you think that this Mewtwo was created the exact same way as that one? Yes, it is implied that it's made very similarly, but not the same. How else would it be ablo to change to a different form? And as it is only a very short prequel (an introduction), don't expect that the exact circumstances of its creation is revealed. And how do you know that it's impossible for the creators to capture a Mew? Just look at the Sinnoh League, one of the random participants had a Heatran, Tobias (who defeated Ash and became the League Champion) had a Darkrai and a Latios, and then we didn't even see all of his six Pokémon. A Nurse Joy in the DP Special had a Latias, Dr. Yung in the Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon could create both an artificial Mew and Mewtwo, there was a Meloetta who had a crush on Ash and kept following him around, and so on. So I really don't see why it's so hard to believe that there could be a completely different Mewtwo, with its unique personality compared to the other one. One last things: this is made for kids. Kids, who are kids right now, and probably don't really know that much about the "original" Pokémon. Ten years from now they might say the exact same things about a "third Mewtwo" as you said just now. You are clearly blinded by nostalgy and you also admit it, so there isn't really much to discuss anyway. I hope at least some of it made sense, as it's already 3 AM here and I'm not 100% sober. So sorry if it's a bit messy, and I think I forgot to point out a lot of things. So anyway... good night. |
Aclos said: First of all, I suggest you play the Generation 4 and 5 games through. There are ways to play it for free on your PC, but I can't help you with that. Then you should check back on Generation 1-3 and realise that the newer Pokémon games are far superior in every possible way, especially when looking at competetive play, but even in single player. I'm being 100% serious and yes, I've played the original ones back in the day. Please, if you are already reading this, take 40 seconds of your life, and watch this video: (if you are still unsure about the games, just lurk around bulbapedia, serebii, or smogon) Now that we're done wtih the games, let's take a look at the anime. Let's start with that I agree that the overall quality has decreased compared to gen3 and gen4 anime in the main series, unfortunately in more than one aspect. But that doesn't really have to do anything with this particular episode, so going into details would just make this post five times longer, and you ain't even watching it. The whole reason for this specail was to showcase the new form of Mewtwo and to make people more interested in the movie, which I think it did pretty well. Just a few minor things: Mewtwo is genderless, so stop referring to it as "he"; Maybe you should try watching the "parent story" before trying to comment on a "side story"; Just forget about Movie 1 and the Mewtwo in it, because it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Why do you think that this Mewtwo was created the exact same way as that one? Yes, it is implied that it's made very similarly, but not the same. How else would it be ablo to change to a different form? And as it is only a very short prequel (an introduction), don't expect that the exact circumstances of its creation is revealed. And how do you know that it's impossible for the creators to capture a Mew? Just look at the Sinnoh League, one of the random participants had a Heatran, Tobias (who defeated Ash and became the League Champion) had a Darkrai and a Latios, and then we didn't even see all of his six Pokémon. A Nurse Joy in the DP Special had a Latias, Dr. Yung in the Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon could create both an artificial Mew and Mewtwo, there was a Meloetta who had a crush on Ash and kept following him around, and so on. So I really don't see why it's so hard to believe that there could be a completely different Mewtwo, with its unique personality compared to the other one. One last things: this is made for kids. Kids, who are kids right now, and probably don't really know that much about the "original" Pokémon. Ten years from now they might say the exact same things about a "third Mewtwo" as you said just now. You are clearly blinded by nostalgy and you also admit it, so there isn't really much to discuss anyway. I hope at least some of it made sense, as it's already 3 AM here and I'm not 100% sober. So sorry if it's a bit messy, and I think I forgot to point out a lot of things. So anyway... good night. I'll just make a couple of points before I call it a night myself. 1) I have played every generation of Pokémon games thus far. I am well aware that plenty of the newer Pokémon are superior in terms of competitive play and single player. After all, Arceus (Gen4) has the highest base stat total of any Pokémon in existence, and is essentially considered to be God. However, that has nothing to do with quality, so there’s no need to bring it up. 2) I am 100% aware that Mewtwo is genderless. I’m just more comfortable referring to it as he due to the fact that he was voiced by a man the first time I saw him. Just a personal preference. 3) Regarding Mewtwo’s creation, I’d like to point out his species designation: “Genetic Pokémon”. I already gave my little explanation of the limitations of genetic engineering in my previous post. If we can agree that Mewtwo is created via genetic manipulation then the only logical way to create one is via manipulation of Mew’s genetic material. 4) As for the trainers owning legendaries thing, you kind of pointed out the flaws yourself. “Sinnoh League” “DP [Diamond+Pearl I assume] Special”. All are more recent series. One of my major qualms with the newer stuff is that they seem to be devaluing legendaries. A big part of the allure and value of legendaries (at least imho) lies with their uniqueness (as well as their killer stats lol). The more legendaries there are, the less interesting they become. Also, if everybody and their grandmother seems to own one (forgive the extreme over exaggeration but I hope you get my point) they become even less interesting. As for the Master of Mirage Pokémon special, those are…well…mirages. They don’t really count :P 5) Finally, I’d like to point out that it’s a little harsh to say I’m “blinded” by nostalgia. I may have a slight leaning towards thing from my younger years, but by no means do I refrain from ripping on flaws in them if they’re present; and, they certainly are present. If I were to rate, say, the first season of Pokémon right now, I would only give it a 6.7 at best. It wasn't that great in terms of quality, but it was enjoyable. You make a lot of good points, and I certainly enjoyed this conversation. Maybe I’ll chat with you again some other time. Goodnight :) |
ArbiterofWhimJul 29, 2013 8:01 PM
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ArbiterofWhim said: So let me get this straight. The original Mewtwo was cloned after years of painstaking experiments from the DNA of a single piece of a fossil of an ancient Mew that took God knows how long to find deep in some jungle(which seems like a one-time find kind of thing). Now there’s supposed to be ANOTHER Mewtwo who would have to be created the same way? Keep in mind that all data regarding Mewtwo’s creation and whatnot was destroyed in his escape from the lab. So in order to create another Mewtwo, some scientists would have had to find another Mew fossil or DNA sample and go through all the same experiments. Is it just me, or does the new Mewtwo thing have more holes in it than a Dutch dam made of Swiss cheese? -__- (not to mention that the new Mewtwo is clearly a pushover compared to the strength of the original. You know, the Mewtwo who couldn't even be scratched by anything other than Mew?) Just my two cents. I whole-heartedly agree with you. Mewtwo is a one-of-a-kind, even acknowledged as such, and yet Kunihiko Yuyama "felt like" a new Mewtwo would be better. Doesn't help this Mewtwo pretty much has the exact same backstory as the original Mewtwo. Good to know Takeshi Shudo's legacy is being torn into tinier and tinier pieces by one of his co-workers. Aclos said: One last things: this is made for kids. Kids, who are kids right now, and probably don't really know that much about the "original" Pokémon. Except they reaired the first Pokémon movie and its sequel special so the new kids could understand who Mewtwo is. Do they seriously believe children are stupid? This prologue was completely pointless--waste of money and animation, which is beautiful but not enough to save the special. It was supposed to explain the awakened forme of this new Mewtwo, but if the Pokémon Hunter who was supposedly hired by the scientists didn't know about it (and he clearly talks about this Mewtwo's backstory), then obviously there wasn't going to be an explanation at all. The characters were also useless, they did nothing worthwhile in this special. Virgil showing off his rescuing doesn't count, because it was clearly a ruse Danku set up. Speaking of Danku, he's a failure of an antagonist. He's pretty much a watered-down Iron Masked Marauder with Lucario-inspired hair. (Seriously, it looks like a Lucario.) Domino was a much better one-shot villain than he. The special also made me mad at the end when this Mewtwo claimed it was the strongest Pokémon ever created. Then why didn't it prove so? The original Mewtwo was minutes old and proved as such. Yes, it was egotistical for him to claim as such, but he personally challenged Mew to see who was the strongest, the clone or the original. This Mewtwo just says it's the strongest ever created, period, and then makes a cyclone of water from a nearby lake to douse out the forest fire. Oh yes, how powerful of you. Oh yes, don't attempt to erase those humans' memories of you. You actually believe humans easily forget things like that. Then again, you break out of the earth's atmosphere at breakneck speeds and nearly pass out from lack of oxygen. Clearly, you aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but brawn over brains, I guess. What a joke character. What a joke prologue. |
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Lil-Bird said: Speaking of Danku, he's a failure of an antagonist. He's pretty much a watered-down Iron Masked Marauder with Lucario-inspired hair. You. I seriously want to hug you right now. I knew he reminded me of a past villain, but I couldn't remember which. Though the Tyranitar really should have tipped me off ^_^ |
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ArbiterofWhim said: 1) I have played every generation of Pokémon games thus far. I am well aware that plenty of the newer Pokémon are superior in terms of competitive play and single player. After all, Arceus (Gen4) has the highest base stat total of any Pokémon in existence, and is essentially considered to be God. However, that has nothing to do with quality, so there’s no need to bring it up. I wasn't talking about quality as the "power" of specific Pokémon, but more like the overall game experience. 3) Regarding Mewtwo’s creation, I’d like to point out his species designation: “Genetic Pokémon”. I already gave my little explanation of the limitations of genetic engineering in my previous post. If we can agree that Mewtwo is created via genetic manipulation then the only logical way to create one is via manipulation of Mew’s genetic material. And I still don't see why it's so hard to believe that they could capture a Mew. Spoiler from movie 16 ahead (from Bulbapedia): One of my major qualms with the newer stuff is that they seem to be devaluing legendaries. A big part of the allure and value of legendaries (at least imho) lies with their uniqueness (as well as their killer stats lol). The more legendaries there are, the less interesting they become. I have to disagree with this point. In the Pokémon Special manga (which is stated by Satoshi Tajira that it stands the closest to the Pokémon world he was trying to convey) legendaries play a big role in every story arc, and the main characters and even the side characters sometimes capture or befriend them and use them to fight. I know it's the anime, not the manga, but so far I don't really see any problem with the amount of legendaries in the anime. They aren't handled as well as in the manga, but it's still ok. 5) Finally, I’d like to point out that it’s a little harsh to say I’m “blinded” by nostalgia. Sorry, I apologize for calling you that. Lil-Bird said: Mewtwo is a one-of-a-kind, even acknowledged as such, Well, at least it was so far. If it is artificial, Mewtwo is the legendary that makes the most sense to be not one-of-a-kind. If some people could find a way to do it once, why couldn't others too? Doesn't help this Mewtwo pretty much has the exact same backstory as the original Mewtwo. Umm... If using Mew's DNA is probably the only way to create a Mewtwo, then what kind of backstory would you like to see for it to make sense? What you said about this Mewtwo... I kind of agree with some of it, but let's say I'll hold my judgement till I see the full movie. |
Aclos said: Well, at least it was so far. If it is artificial, Mewtwo is the legendary that makes the most sense to be not one-of-a-kind. If some people could find a way to do it once, why couldn't others too? ... Umm... If using Mew's DNA is probably the only way to create a Mewtwo, then what kind of backstory would you like to see for it to make sense? There is no way to make a Mew clone and have it be exactly the same if cloned by other people. All information on the original Mewtwo was destroyed along with the laboratory, and death of Dr. Fuji and the scientists. (And Mewtwo also erased the memory of his existence from Giovanni and all the Rockets present.) It's a stretch to say there was a spy/traitor amongst the scientists, or that someone hacked into their computer databases because of how secret the laboratory was. Giovanni himself tracked down Dr. Fuji and funded the project. He's rich, he can afford the best of the best, and that means the best technology and best defenses against such things. It's also implied that Mewtwo was one of many specimens, but the only one to survive. That would mean they had to have written and rewritten notes as they spliced the DNA to get what they wanted--which resulted in Mewtwo looking the way he does. They would most likely have copies on hand, but if they were possibly cut off from the world, they could only have hard copies on them--and even then, I believe they got rid of failed notes. This would've taken them years to do--and while the dub does say they spent years on the project, the CD Drama does say it took a month to make Mewtwo. But who's to say they didn't have failed attempts during that month? So for an entirely different scientist team to somehow clone a Mew and come out with a Mewtwo who looks exactly like the original Mewtwo--albeit a female--is extremely unlikely and full of plotholes; anime logic aside, this Mewtwo should not exist the way it does. If they were to clone a Mew, okay, whatever, but the clone shouldn't look exactly like the original Mewtwo. |
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| Pokemon anime become more Kids or even BABY SHOW BECAUSE THIS EPISODE!! i've still rewatch movie 1 and never get bored, because ASH and MEWTWO was BADASS. and becuase this episode, now pokemon anime doesn't make any sense. they've should make ASH a champion before this happen, then make new POKEMON |
| It was okay. Nice animation, but otherwise, not much to write home about. |
Bum Bum Dum Dum |
| It was pretty good although weird that he's now voiced by a woman and he or it seems a bit different now from the first movie. |
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| I’m just gonna pretend some scientists were looking around the area of the old lab original mewtwo destroyed for salvageable info and came across some left over mew dna and were able to work with it to make their own MewTwo who eventually escaped as well. |
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| man I was hype to see mewtwo again, but then I heard the new voice and I am not a fan at all. I get it's supposedly to be a different mewtwo/new individual so maybe it's to avoid confusion having too similar a voice to one we know and associate with mewtwo. Still didn't like this one so far, don't feel like it fits Mewtwo. |
| I have a third testicle that gives me psychic powers |
| It was decent. And well, anything Eevee related is awesome, so. |
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