Manami's hate is unwarranted.

unmemorable_hero said:

You can say she didn't "do" anything to cause the break between their relationship, but she didn't help at all with what she said. She could have at least said something nice to this young girl, but instead just kinda laid out the facts, and it pissed Kirino off. There was zero sensitivity, zero compassion, and, what has been said by many, Kirino was too young to know anything about "loving her brother sexually", she just loved her brother as a sibling would, and maybe that subconsciously did something to her,

Ejc said:
The good thing is that people have the ability to form their own opinions, rather than following each other blindly like sheep.

Ejc said:
Most of this new hate is from anime-only watchers seeing Episode 13. Now I'd wonder the reaction if they animated the other chapters of v11, because there's a lot more to the story than what was depicted in Episode 13. Whether these people will love or hate Manami more if they actually read the light novel... I can't really judge.

Ghost-Lightning said:
I really don't wanna have to summerize the books or find and repost that image again, so I'll just use words:

The reason Manami is getting so much hate is that what happens in the novels is different than what was shown in the anime. A bunch of LN readers went into the anime forums and filled in the blanks (essentially exposing Manami as the sociopathic freak that she is) and in the process confused many people that only watched the anime who were left saying "But Manami didn't really do anything, right?"

Long story ahort, the anime adaptation is missing majorly important details that would remove any room to reasonable doubt that Manami a shit.

tsudecimo said:
I would understand it a little if people read the novel because it goes in much more detail but the fact is that most people who hate her didn't read the novel only that evil plan pic and they took it in face value.
Why would you hate a character for reasons that was never shown to you in the anime?!

ReasonDesu said:
Becuase all the Kirino shippers are pissed that the tsundere brocon got the finger from her. Like this fanbase has ever been logical.

Dragon_Slayer_X said:


This coming from butthurt Kuroneko fans..........your people are so logical aren't you?

5layer said:
Whenever she is on screen, the anime is not funny. Fact. I honestly cannot think of a single funny scene with her in it

tsudecimo said:

How is that a fact? That episode where Kyousuke spends the night in her home is my favorite episode in season 1, I thought the episode was hilarious. I don't find her dull to be honest maybe in looks she is plain.

Meh.

tsudecimo said:
I don't understand the hatred she is currently receiving, making her the most hated character of the show. Why?. None of the reasons I saw from the people calling her a bitch or w/e are that reasonable. I personally like her I would go as far as to say she is my favorite character in the show. I would understand it a little if people read the novel because it goes in much more detail but the fact is that most people who hate her didn't read the novel only that evil plan pic and they took it in face value. I think that was a really shitty move by the author he did it to make Kirino more likable and to explain her inherent bitchness which epically failed imo since that made me dislike Kirino more.

tsudecimo said:
Why would you hate a character for reasons that was never shown to you in the anime?!

Zmffkskem said:

Isn't it a simple case of chasing the chicken and the egg? And it ends with Manami.
Kirino does X? ∵ Manami
Kyousuke does Y?∵ Manami
X & Y cause Z and onwards?∵ Manami

Zmffkskem said:
Funny that you'd speak of realism. Would a sister who's somewhat (?)sexually(?) attracted to strength not be irritated by the lack of life in Kyousuke? Yet somehow Manami is realistic for planning a whole lot for someone she will never, ever get?

Zmffkskem said:

∵Source material.

Tsukihime is a VN. SAO is a LN. One Piece is a Manga. And finally Code Geass is Anime.

Source will carry more weight than their adaptations unless a huge population agrees that the source is crap(i.e. claiming a lot of things people just will never believe) or that the adaptation is immensely popular and gains more 'canonicity' than source.

tsudecimo said:

You honestly make no sense.

tsudecimo said:
Are you stupid? the detailed story of the novel didn't get adapted into the anime whether the source material is good, bad or popular is highly irrelevant here no is even talking about that. Most of the people who hate Manami didn't read the novel only watched the anime. Volume 11 was released before the anime aired.

Romedbaumann said:
"It's creepy for a little sister to be in love with her brother, isn't it?"

I already didn't like her before because in my opinion she's just uninteresting, but that sentence really made me hate her. Probably one of my most hated anime characters next to Maria from Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai.

For your information, I have neither read the novels (Probably will in the future), nor have I read that, whatever it is, some sort of extract from the novels I guess.

Zmffkskem said:

Try reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_%28ethology%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy
And try to understand that
H. Sapiens is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_animal

How would you know what people are talking about?
Do people actually earmark their posts with:

'I hate Manami(as depicted in the anime)...'
'Manami(as depicted in the anime) is wrong...'

No, instead, people write

'Manami did... and caused... ...'
So, where did you gather the astute observation that the chatter is all about the anime adaptation?

tsudecimo said:

It's creepy so I fail to see why you hate her.

Romedbaumann said:


Why?

tsudecimo said:

This is not about incest and why it's creepy/wrong. My point is that Manami said what any normal person would say in real life ergo she is realistic in that sense. What she said wasn't abnormal or out of spite, it's something that most human beings in this time period would say.

Romedbaumann said:


And just because most people would do it, it's automatically the right thing to do?

tsudecimo said:
Why are you trying to derail this into incest talk and whether it's right or wrong...? I already said that's NOT the point.

crime-edge said:


i agree. i personally think its not the right thing to do. sure yea people have their opinions about incest but thats not the point. My point would be "are you in the position to tell someone that its wrong?" . I seriously think that manami was not in that position to tell kirino anything about loving her brother. Not even the least she approached it in a polite way to tell her it was wrong to have that sort of relationship, but she decided to be passive aggressive on the subject with kirino which made manami look like a wench.

tsudecimo said:
My point is that Manami said what any normal person would say in real life ergo she is realistic in that sense. What she said wasn't abnormal or out of spite, it's something that most human beings in this time period would say.

Exblaster said:
for fuck sakes... its like arguing with a overly religious person in here

Takuan_Soho said:


No it isn't. Kirino was 11 at the time, there is nothing "creepy" about an 11 year old wanting to have a brother she could admire. Manami's line "the admirable brother of yours never existed" was also not something that a normal person would say to an 11 year old, talk about passive-aggressive undermining of someone's world view.

I don't "hate" Manami because, well it's an animation and she is a character, but even if we assume that an 11 year old Kirino had an issue, the way Manami went about fixing it was dead wrong and doesn't reflect positively on her.

As for whether this was a late gloss by the writer, I don't think so. Throughout both the initial season and this season Kirino has at several instances expressed that it was Kyousuke's apathy that she disliked. A couple of times after she abused him, she would mutter "so you put up with this as well". Indeed her abuse and attitude was an attempt to goad him into responding, to have some passion or to defend himself. There has always the question as to why Kyousuke had retreated into his shell. Nor is this something that only Kirino noticed, both of Kyousuke's parents obviously had some issues with Kyousuke's behavior from the start as well. So the unasked question of "why" was always lurking in the background.

Ghost-Lightning said:


Thank you for pointing this out. Disregarding the novels (as hard as that is) and only focusing on the anime, Kirino has always been shown to have a disdain towards Manami and while it was never made expressly clear, I don't think that the reasoning revealed to be the cause of Kirino and Kyosuke's falling out is at all unbelievable (in fact, they even mention throughout that Kyosuke for some reason resented that Kirino was able to surpass him in nearly every way, which we now know is directly related to what was something of a "changing of the guard" in terms of their roles). The author didn't just suddenly decide to retroactively re-write every instance of implied conflict between these three characters into the story. I'm sure he knew what he was doing.

deathmailrock said:
It also can't be helped that the anime leaves out a lot of the stuff from the novel; in the novel, it made a hell lot more sense

Romedbaumann said:

I simply stated that this statement of her was what made me hate her, you where the one who went like, oh, but incest is creepy. It was obvious that I would then ask you why you think so. Then you noticed that you don't have an answer to that question and changed the argument into something different. I then proceeded asking you a fundamental question concerning your newest argument. My question had nothing to do with incest which is why your last post is just an excuse in order to not having to deal with questions you cannot answer.

Takuan_Soho said:
No it isn't. Kirino was 11 at the time, there is nothing "creepy" about an 11 year old wanting to have a brother she could admire. Manami's line "the admirable brother of yours never existed" was also not something that a normal person would say to an 11 year old, talk about passive-aggressive undermining of someone's world view.

I don't "hate" Manami because, well it's an animation and she is a character, but even if we assume that an 11 year old Kirino had an issue, the way Manami went about fixing it was dead wrong and doesn't reflect positively on her.

Ghost-Lightning said:

Thank you for pointing this out. Disregarding the novels (as hard as that is) and only focusing on the anime, Kirino has always been shown to have a disdain towards Manami and while it was never made expressly clear, I don't think that the reasoning revealed to be the cause of Kirino and Kyosuke's falling out is at all unbelievable

deathmailrock said:
1st, Kirino isn't really a bitch (she's got leeway on what she does cause it's the comic anime abuse and she's his little sister; it's like Ayase's abuse, it can't be taken seriously -which is why Kyousuke can't hate them for it-, when they go too far, he does get pissed and doesn't take their shit)

2nd, the 13th episode actually pissed me off cause it put all the blame on Kirino. I sorta understandable cause her hero all of the sudden 'betrayed' her, plus she kept on remembering Manami's words about how she couldn't be in love with her brother. But what about how Kyousuke avoided her cause she reminded him of his previous self and all and he got jealous because she was becoming amazing and garnering praise. Kirino couldn't be comfortable near the brother who wouldn't even smile at her and never supported her and was embarrassed to be near her and treated her like a stranger.........

but 3rd, Manami's smile as she told Kirino that her brother she worshipped never existed and that she should give up on her feelings for him...... the way she said it was bad; but it seems like she had the best intentions (hell, she would support them in the end if they weren't blood related probably), but she said it in a bad way, thus people who had no reason to like her (cause while she's sweet, she's a real boring character, so she has no points that people like her) have about 3 reasons to not like her based on that scene, her smile while she said the stuff and the 2 things she said to Kirino (the anti-incest thing and how her bro never existed)..... so that's 3 hate points to no love points

tsudecimo said:
She thought the level of affection Kirino had for her brother was weird, sure she did say it because she had a crush on Kyouskue but that wasn't the only reason she said that. I'm talking about the anime though and that wasn't adapted.

What did she do that was so wrong? she just told her it was creepy.

tsudecimo said:
I would understand it a little if people read the novel because it goes in much more detail but the fact is that most people who hate her didn't read the novel only that evil plan pic and they took it in face value.

tsudecimo said:
In the anime none of that happened, so I don't know what you are talking about she only said ''Nope'', all of what you are talkng about happened in the novel not the anime.

tsudecimo said:
In the anime none of that happened, so I don't know what you are talking about she only said ''Nope'', all of what you are talkng about happened in the novel not the anime.

LimeSlate said:
Am I the only one who likes BOTH Kirino and Manami?

Ghost-Lightning said:
I like Kirino because I can sympathize with her a lot and because she's fucking amazing (e.g. dat book store scene from episode 13...omfg)

Imation10 said:
>It's Kirino's fault for idolizing her brother so much that she failed to treat him like a human. The minute he lost all his ''cool points'' she stopped treating him like a real brother. That's just stupid and highly unrealistic.

who's the one who started the ignoring part? Kyousuke right? he ignored Kirino many times before Kirino did the same to Kyousuke. why Kyousuke ignoring Kirino? because Manami "did" something, right? also, is it wrong to admire your older brother/older sister so much? it's natural. also, it's natural that you expected so much to your older sibling yet they went downhill too much which that will result to huge disappointment.

it seems you don't have any slightest supporters here because you're just fucking blind.

and if you're still saying that "I/we didn't read the novel so stfu", then gtfo here and go bitch and whine in the LN discussion. this is anime discussion and most of us here only watched the anime and we're only discussing about the anime.

LimeSlate said:
Am I the only one who likes BOTH Kirino and Manami?

Exaccus said:
I didn't interpret Manami's words as being said out of spite. Because she doesn't come across as a remotely spiteful person. It seems to me that Manami simply correctly perceived the situation and chose to bluntly tell Kirino what was actually the case. Why is she being hated on for doing just that?

As far as I'm concerned, it's Kirino's who is the real problem in this anime. She's caught up in a delusion of what her brother used to be. Her whole life was just chasing this imaginary image of Kyousuke and trying to impress him when he was never the deity figure she made him out to be in the first place. Does the concept of growing up, moving on, and not relying on her brother really such a foreign idea? Really? Shit, her issues got so bad she even went down the creepy route and winded up drooling over little sister eroges of all things. To top it all off she acts like a princessy bitch whenever Kyousuke actually busts his ass to help her out.

Fucking pathetic.

I have no sympathy for Kirino what so ever. It amazes me that people idolize her when she's such a blatantly terrible person characterized by self-centeredness, an unsavory sexual fetish, immaturity, and a weak will.

That said, Manami didn't do anything wrong here, she was merely telling Kirino the way things really are, you know, outside of Kirino's big brother complex fantasies.

Again, fucking pathetic.