DateYutaka said: VentusCross said: sushi55 said: Curiosity for all you MegaTen fans out there, but what alignment do you usually support? I tend to go towards Law due to me being a goody two-shoes. But I go for Neutral if I can. play IF... that show what happens to the world if you in cannon SMT2 finshed on a Chaos ending I thought IF hasn't been fully translated yet though. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| My top JRPGs list. 1) FFVII 2) FFVIII 3) Suikoden 2 4) FFIX 5) Vagrant Story (not exactly the same as all the others but it's still a Japanese RPG :P) 6) Xenoblade Chronicles 7) Suikoden 5 8) Chrono Cross 9) Legend of Dragoon 10) Legend of Legaia There are probably some I'm forgetting that fit better in that top 10 list but whatever. |
sushi55 said: DateYutaka said: VentusCross said: sushi55 said: Curiosity for all you MegaTen fans out there, but what alignment do you usually support? I tend to go towards Law due to me being a goody two-shoes. But I go for Neutral if I can. play IF... that show what happens to the world if you in cannon SMT2 finshed on a Chaos ending I thought IF hasn't been fully translated yet though. Date doesn't understand the concept of "Japanese is not a universal language". Date, please please please try to consider that most people don't speak Japanese and that we cannot play VNs or JRPS or anything story based if it is ONLY IN JAPANESE. |
| I haven't played many of either. I love Disgaea, though. I think the only one I haven't gotten to play yet is Disgaea Infinite, and I'm looking forward to Disgaea D2. |
sushi55 said: Considering we already have quite a few nominations, I'll nominate some myself. JRPGs: - Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, Catherine (puzzle game, but part of MegaTen). Okay, I initially posted in this thread, because "woo vidja gamez!" And then I saw this. Catherine. Is. Not. A. Fucking. JRPG. At all. Just because it was made by Atlus and/or composed by Shoji Meguro doesn't mean it's a JRPG or immediately part of the MegaTen universe. Just because there are Catherine-related pages in the MegaTen wiki doesn't prove that. They're just there. You know, Atlus has made games that are not JRPGs. You know that right? |
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| I once tried to play Catherine, and I was just bored. The puzzles were repetitive and the dialogue wasn't engaging. |
dietmango said: sushi55 said: Considering we already have quite a few nominations, I'll nominate some myself. JRPGs: - Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, Catherine (puzzle game, but part of MegaTen). Okay, I initially posted in this thread, because "woo vidja gamez!" And then I saw this. Catherine. Is. Not. A. Fucking. JRPG. At all. Just because it was made by Atlus and/or composed by Shoji Meguro doesn't mean it's a JRPG or immediately part of the MegaTen universe. Just because there are Catherine-related pages in the MegaTen wiki doesn't prove that. They're just there. You know, Atlus has made games that are not JRPGs. You know that right? I know that, sorry for the mistake. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
sushi55 said: dietmango said: sushi55 said: Considering we already have quite a few nominations, I'll nominate some myself. JRPGs: - Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, Catherine (puzzle game, but part of MegaTen). Okay, I initially posted in this thread, because "woo vidja gamez!" And then I saw this. Catherine. Is. Not. A. Fucking. JRPG. At all. Just because it was made by Atlus and/or composed by Shoji Meguro doesn't mean it's a JRPG or immediately part of the MegaTen universe. Just because there are Catherine-related pages in the MegaTen wiki doesn't prove that. They're just there. You know, Atlus has made games that are not JRPGs. You know that right? I know that, sorry for the mistake. *sigh* you know what, just don't worry about it. Just a pet peeve of mine when they associate everything Atlus makes with genres and franchises that don't make sense to particular games. It's probably not something I shouldn't make too much of a big deal about, but I do. :/ |
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Amberleh said: Figuring that, not to mention both series is PS1 game.. And just to be clear, most good review on suikoden III is from people who never play the 2 earlier series..doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Then you SHOULD play suikoden I and II.. Suikoden III deemed as the worst series of the franchise based on the gameplay (from the perspective of a gamer), and suikoden II has a more solid story/plot from my opinion..My favorite JRPG ever is still, to this day, Chrono Trigger. My other favorite is Suikoden III . Never played the other two Suikodens but damn do I love III. People keep saying that but reviews state otherwise. Also, while I can watch old anime, I can't play older games now. AND, on top of that, I don't have the money to shell out for 1 and 2. drunkenblowfish said: boy do i love .hack, though I just olayed the .hack//GU seriesHas no one mentioned .hack yet? |
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DateYutaka said: sushi55 said: DateYutaka said: VentusCross said: sushi55 said: Curiosity for all you MegaTen fans out there, but what alignment do you usually support? I tend to go towards Law due to me being a goody two-shoes. But I go for Neutral if I can. play IF... that show what happens to the world if you in cannon SMT2 finshed on a Chaos ending I thought IF hasn't been fully translated yet though. iv been told its around 60% and with IF if you are ganre savy enought to know how the SMT 2 universe wroked and how Shin mega ten games work in there story and UI style and Mancahnics no Traslation shoud be needed [ SMT 2 is the key game though] play it get the Chos ending theny play IF Why do you think that the first Part of persona 2 was never relesed in the US for the same reason SMT I and II were not Cotent issues Before SMT IV this year IF was my fave main line SMT game [ yes it is main line ] side note ai the only one here who played Avatar Tuner Games [ thay were resle in teh West but under what name i forget] You mean Devil Saga? I unfortunately only have the second one, so I stopped playing it to avoid spoiling the first one. Is if better than the original MegaTen series? I love the first one and was OK with the second one (I hate Nocturne's "story", but love it's gameplay), but I find the characters in the original MegaTen games nowhere near as likable or well-developed as the Persona or Devil Survivor characters. If is what made Persona exist in the first place, and Persona is my favorite MegaTen sub-series soooo...yeah. Are the characters in if as good as Persona? Is if as atmospheric as the original MegaTen games and the first Devil Survivor? I'd love to hear your opinion about it :D |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Figuring that, not to mention both series is PS1 game.. And just to be clear, most good review on suikoden III is from people who never play the 2 earlier series..doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Then you SHOULD play suikoden I and II.. Suikoden III deemed as the worst series of the franchise based on the gameplay (from the perspective of a gamer), and suikoden II has a more solid story/plot from my opinion..My favorite JRPG ever is still, to this day, Chrono Trigger. My other favorite is Suikoden III . Never played the other two Suikodens but damn do I love III. People keep saying that but reviews state otherwise. Also, while I can watch old anime, I can't play older games now. AND, on top of that, I don't have the money to shell out for 1 and 2. Really. Because the review sites I use give Suikoden III a 9.1 and gave it an editor's choice award of sorts while I has a 6.5 and II a 7.5. Metacritic scores I and II higher than Gamespot, but still lower than they scored III. I think the reason people have decided that I and II are better is because they are die-hard oldschool fanboys. =/ I notice many fans of MANY different franchises will claim the next game in a series is worse than the first ones because the gaming platform is different, they changed a couple of mechanics (regardless of it they are for the better or not), etc. It's all about nostalgia. And for the record, I'm prettttyy sure it's widely known that IV was the worst of the series. I played a little of IV and dropped it maybe 10 hours or more in. The reviews also seem to indicate that V was better than IV but still worse than III. |
Amberleh said: doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Figuring that, not to mention both series is PS1 game.. And just to be clear, most good review on suikoden III is from people who never play the 2 earlier series..doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Then you SHOULD play suikoden I and II.. Suikoden III deemed as the worst series of the franchise based on the gameplay (from the perspective of a gamer), and suikoden II has a more solid story/plot from my opinion..My favorite JRPG ever is still, to this day, Chrono Trigger. My other favorite is Suikoden III . Never played the other two Suikodens but damn do I love III. People keep saying that but reviews state otherwise. Also, while I can watch old anime, I can't play older games now. AND, on top of that, I don't have the money to shell out for 1 and 2. Really. Because the review sites I use give Suikoden III a 9.1 and gave it an editor's choice award of sorts while I has a 6.5 and II a 7.5. Metacritic scores I and II higher than Gamespot, but still lower than they scored III. I think the reason people have decided that I and II are better is because they are die-hard oldschool fanboys. =/ I notice many fans of MANY different franchises will claim the next game in a series is worse than the first ones because the gaming platform is different, they changed a couple of mechanics (regardless of it they are for the better or not), etc. It's all about nostalgia. And for the record, I'm prettttyy sure it's widely known that IV was the worst of the series. I played a little of IV and dropped it maybe 10 hours or more in. The reviews also seem to indicate that V was better than IV but still worse than III. Having played all of them, for me it's 2>>>>5>>>>1>3>>>>4 The story and characters in Suikoden 2 are definitely much better than in the 3rd one, same for Suikoden 5, as for Suikoden 1, it shares many characters with Suikoden 2 but the plot is not that good and the gameplay has some flaws that were corrected in the 2nd game. As for reviews, the ones I've seen say that 2 is the best by a big margin, 1, 3 and 5 are pretty much the same, and 4 is the worst by far. As for Metacritic, S2 has a low number of reviews compared to S3, and if you look at the scores given by users, S2 has a really high score (9.6) While Suikoden 3 is a very good game, imo Suikoden 2 is superior in almost every aspect (graphics aside of course), the battle system, the plot (in this aspect it's probably the best JRPG ever for me), the characters, the villains (Luca Blight is probably my favourite villain of a JRPG after Sephiroth), the world map (I personally hate when places are connected by lines), etc. |
PosseJun 28, 2013 11:05 PM
Amberleh said: I think the reason people have decided that I and II are better is because they are die-hard oldschool fanboys. =/ I notice many fans of MANY different franchises will claim the next game in a series is worse than the first ones because the gaming platform is different, they changed a couple of mechanics (regardless of it they are for the better or not), etc. It's all about nostalgia. Heh, like Pokemon. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
Amberleh said: I think the reason people have decided that I and II are better is because they are die-hard oldschool fanboys. =/ I notice many fans of MANY different franchises will claim the next game in a series is worse than the first ones because the gaming platform is different, they changed a couple of mechanics (regardless of it they are for the better or not), etc. It's all about nostalgia. You're so wrong! It's got nothing to do with nostalgia. Suikoden II is a better game. It's got a better plot and better characters and a better gameplay... and it has aged quite well. Suikoden III is very good. I like it more than the first game. But it's not as great as Suikoden II... just like the others stated. I really think you should give it a try before coming to a conclusion. |
cielo_blue said: Amberleh said: I think the reason people have decided that I and II are better is because they are die-hard oldschool fanboys. =/ I notice many fans of MANY different franchises will claim the next game in a series is worse than the first ones because the gaming platform is different, they changed a couple of mechanics (regardless of it they are for the better or not), etc. It's all about nostalgia. You're so wrong! It's got nothing to do with nostalgia. Suikoden II is a better game. It's got a better plot and better characters and a better gameplay... and it has aged quite well. Suikoden III is very good. I like it more than the first game. But it's not as great as Suikoden II... just like the others stated. I really think you should give it a try before coming to a conclusion. People say the same things about anything actually, from MegaTen to the Tales series and even Final Fantasy. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
sushi55 said: People say the same things about anything actually, from MegaTen to the Tales series and even Final Fantasy. I don't know what "people" you're talking about nor I know what things they say. I just find senseless to dislike or deem unremarkable a game you never played. If he doesn't want to try Suikoden II for whatever reason, that's totally fine. I'm just sharing my opinion. The game has a beautiful pixel art and nice scenarios - good graphics, specially if compared to Chrono Trigger (which isn't bad either). Also, it has a great gampeplay, with duel, war battles and other elements that are present in Suikoden III too. And it has one of best stories I've seen in a JRPG. If you don't mind a suggestion, watch the opening [it's only 2 mins long]: |
| Final Fantasy 15 looks epic |
| I'm really excited to see someone share the same love for suikoden II as me. high five cielo! And I do agree a lot of people tend to say the earlier series are much better than the latter without really able to give a subtle reasoning other than "nostalgic" reason.. But Suikoden II is indeed the most solid series of the franchise. Not just from the aspect of story/plot, but also in gameplay and features. Though I really suggest to play suikoden I before II for better enjoyment in plot-wise reason and |
doraemon1992Jul 1, 2013 1:49 AM
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| Suikoden II was great but it really lacked of challenge, the only good boss I remember in this game was the vampire. If there was some very hard optional bosses and some rebalancing of skills this game would have been perfect. |
| No Cielo, you are the first person in the thread to actually give substantial reasoning rather than just fanboy "IT'S BETTER CAUSE IT'S THE ORIGINAL". So I thank you for that. You are also the first person to NOT say "YOUR FAVORITE GAME IS THE SHITTIEST ONE", which of course is never a way convince someone to play/watch something. =) |
Amberleh said: Ouchh.... :(No Cielo, you are the first person in the thread to actually give substantial reasoning rather than just fanboy "IT'S BETTER CAUSE IT'S THE ORIGINAL". So I thank you for that. You are also the first person to NOT say "YOUR FAVORITE GAME IS THE SHITTIEST ONE", which of course is never a way convince someone to play/watch something. =) is it too late to beg for forgiveness by saying S3 does has a solid story among JPRGs and I do love how well the story came off? :( |
doraemon1992Jul 1, 2013 12:15 PM
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doraemon1992 said: Amberleh said: Ouchh.... :(No Cielo, you are the first person in the thread to actually give substantial reasoning rather than just fanboy "IT'S BETTER CAUSE IT'S THE ORIGINAL". So I thank you for that. You are also the first person to NOT say "YOUR FAVORITE GAME IS THE SHITTIEST ONE", which of course is never a way convince someone to play/watch something. =) is it too late to beg for forgiveness by saying S3 does has a solid story among JPRGs and I do love how well the story came off? :( Oh don't be silly, I didn't actually take offense to it. =) You guys don't need to tiptoe around me just because I'm an admin. Seriously. Just be yourselves and if your behavior is an actual issue I'll talk to you privately and we can work it out. But I'm not going to crack down on you if we happen to disagree on something, especially if, as is the case with this, I indeed have not actually played the other games of the series. |
DateYutaka said: ogre battle any one It's actually my boyfriend's favorite game ever. If he were in the club or even on MAL I'd have him discuss it with you, haha. |
DateYutaka said: Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: ogre battle any one It's actually my boyfriend's favorite game ever. If he were in the club or even on MAL I'd have him discuss it with you, haha. its sad only three games is the franchise 2 games and a Gaiden I think he mentioned that, and he tried to play the others games in the franchise and didn't like them nearly as much. I remember the whole reason he played Sengoku Rance was because people said it was the game most similar to Ogre Battle 64, even though he really dislikes anime. He told me he kept opening and closing the game at first because it was so very anime so it took him a while to get into, haha. |
DateYutaka said: Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: ogre battle any one It's actually my boyfriend's favorite game ever. If he were in the club or even on MAL I'd have him discuss it with you, haha. its sad only three games is the franchise 2 games and a Gaiden I think he mentioned that, and he tried to play the others games in the franchise and didn't like them nearly as much. I remember the whole reason he played Sengoku Rance was because people said it was the game most similar to Ogre Battle 64, even though he really dislikes anime. He told me he kept opening and closing the game at first because it was so very anime so it took him a while to get into, haha. and Sangoku rance is the least RPG game in that Franchise but very different rant for another day oddly i like march pf the black Queen most [ biut that comes from the fact that bthe su fami is my fave system for rpgs of the era [ with rpgs we can talk about] That's why he wanted to play Sengoku Rance, not the other games. He doesn't like straight-up RPGs, he likes turn-based strategy. Perhaps you know of some other good turn-based strategy with an English translation I could suggest to him? He's less picky about graphics than I am so suggest anything from any era. |
Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: Amberleh said: DateYutaka said: ogre battle any one It's actually my boyfriend's favorite game ever. If he were in the club or even on MAL I'd have him discuss it with you, haha. its sad only three games is the franchise 2 games and a Gaiden I think he mentioned that, and he tried to play the others games in the franchise and didn't like them nearly as much. I remember the whole reason he played Sengoku Rance was because people said it was the game most similar to Ogre Battle 64, even though he really dislikes anime. He told me he kept opening and closing the game at first because it was so very anime so it took him a while to get into, haha. and Sangoku rance is the least RPG game in that Franchise but very different rant for another day oddly i like march pf the black Queen most [ biut that comes from the fact that bthe su fami is my fave system for rpgs of the era [ with rpgs we can talk about] That's why he wanted to play Sengoku Rance, not the other games. He doesn't like straight-up RPGs, he likes turn-based strategy. Perhaps you know of some other good turn-based strategy with an English translation I could suggest to him? He's less picky about graphics than I am so suggest anything from any era. If he is no longer immune to anime-ish artwork, I highly recommend the MegaTen games. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| Oh that's another thing sushi- He HATES dating sim stuff. In general he'd prefer something not be so visual novel style I think. I believe the gameplay in Rance was just enough to make up for that aspect. |
Amberleh said: Oh that's another thing sushi- He HATES dating sim stuff. In general he'd prefer something not be so visual novel style I think. I believe the gameplay in Rance was just enough to make up for that aspect. Um, if he owns a PS2, he can go for Nocturne. Just make sure he doesn't play it on Hard mode. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
doraemon1992 said: I'm really excited to see someone share the same love for suikoden II as me. high five cielo! Suikoden II deserves more love. : D Amberleh said: No Cielo, you are the first person in the thread to actually give substantial reasoning rather than just fanboy "IT'S BETTER CAUSE IT'S THE ORIGINAL". So I thank you for that. You are also the first person to NOT say "YOUR FAVORITE GAME IS THE SHITTIEST ONE", which of course is never a way convince someone to play/watch something. =) I had a great time playing Suikoden III. It's ok if you still consider it to be your favorite after playing the second. I just wanted to encourage you to not skip II be cause of it's age. |
cielo_blue said: I had a great time playing Suikoden III. It's ok if you still consider it to be your favorite after playing the second. I just wanted to encourage you to not skip II be cause of it's age. In fact, I think Suikoden 2 aged pretty well, it's not a game you'll play today and think it looks ugly. |
| I'm almost finished with Katawa Shoujo. While some parts are fantastic other parts are not. I know this is generally considered to be one of the best VNs. I like the take on disabilities as its very enlightening. I also understand that it's relatively short compared to most VNs. I feel like even this is a bit too wordy and long for my taste. For each respective arc, I feel that I'm getting similar info on the characters but in a slightly different way. For example, Sizune, is quite direct but I understood that through her interactions. I don't need the main character telling me that she's direct. This all ties in to the wordiness. I've heard that most VNs are unnecessarily long and wordy. Is this true and is this an actual complaint? People might say that I'm "just not used to VNs yet". It's true that I'm not because this is my first one. However, I don't think I should have to get used to or settle for wordy dialogue or points that I already understood. Now, I really enjoy Katawa Shoujo and what it offers. The message is strong and it's a great experience overall. The the wordiness is not too much of a complaint but it still detracts form the experience. Can anyone address my complaints and help clear up what VNs are all about? |
| That's exactly what they're about. I finished MuvLuv/Alternative not too long ago and I have to say that the endless repeated dialogues didn't make it a very pleasant experience. I would claim that there isn't exactly a fantastic selection of (translated) vns around and that the community is rather insular and prone to go crazy over deepshit and wordy titles. I wouldn't hesitate to exercise a healthy bias when picking out titles to read, especially if you're already experienced with anime/manga/games/other and have a feel for what you want. |
| I recommend Umineko if you're looking for a visual novel that isn't too wordy and lengthy. |
metamorphiusNov 5, 2013 11:00 PM
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| I was looking in to a new area to broaden my horizon. Maybe I won't like VNs if the wordiness usually is immense. Sure, I love a great story but it should only be as long as it needs to be. Fluff or filler doesn't usually make me happy. If it's brief or mixes things up then that's ok. If it beats a dead horse then I'm not a happy camper. I should experience few other VNs before I call it a day. Also I've heard that MuvLuv/Alternative is generally the "best" VN. I've checked out many sites and read reviews. This is almost always on the top 10 lists. If Kawata Shojou and MuvLuv are supposed to be the better VNs then what does that say for the medium? I see many harems and harems aren't necessarily known for being quality material. A few seem like they're pandering to otaku and are light on story. Maybe VNs aren't what I'm looking for. Then again, I've only experienced one and it's not bad. In fact, I enjoy it and appreciate the mature approach to physical disabilities. What do you think? |
| You're not alone with having an overall lackluster experience with VNs. I also don't think VNs are all that great either, and while I do love quite a few of them (Umineko is something I'd give a 10 to even if both parts were actual books), they ultimately are too poorly written to appeal to most people with an idea of what literary merit is. Also, there's too much pointless dialogue and, um, hentai scenes in the medium. Most of which can't be skipped and are awkward as fuck. Wait, that came out wrong... Out of the 4 core anime hobbies, (Anime, Manga, VNs, JRPGs) VNs are what I'm least interested in. And I've read over 30 (not counting MegaTen games, because I'd seriously have no idea if I go there). So no, nothing wrong with thinking like that. VNs are a weak medium, cater to the wrong people and don't stand a shred of a chance against actual novels for the most part. What kind of novels do you enjoy anyway? I may be able to recommend VNs based on that (though it would still be somewhat hard for reasons I already said). |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| @Sushi So what you are saying is that an average literature reader will find most visual novels to be unappealing? That's far from being true, as I can base that on my personal experience, being an avid reader and all. Yes, there are nukige titles that focus primarily on sex with little to no plot, and most official releases are nukige titles. Have you read any of the Liar-soft VN's, Ever17/Remember11, YU-NO, shorter Nitro Plus titles like Kikokugai and Hanachirasu etc.? If you are basing your claim on a dozen gameplay oriented VN's and a handful of nukige, I can't exactly blame you, but not even the surface of what's good about the medium has been scratched by translations. And yes, I am somewhat offended with the comments regarding the VN community as being rabid pseudo-intellectuals. I know that a good number of fans aren't exactly enlightened and read visual novels for porn and cute girls, but that can be also said for any anime or manga community.[/rant] |
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| When you switch mediums, you don't necessarily want to go after the seemingly good stuff. What you really want, is to find the right stuff. It's important to establish a strong liking or you have no foundation to be interested. We all need something to fanboy over after all. You just can't go and read things from a top10 and assume they're automatically a great experience. No, it just won't work like that anymore. It's the curse of experience, an enlightened bias. Although sometimes, rarely, the right answer can be found in the most unexpected of places so don't think anything is too low tier to be considered entertaining either. If your intuition says you want to read/play something, then do so and don't bother with community standards. |
| @mecharobot It's the same with any medium. If you suddenly went into anime and decided to check out the top rated titles on MAL or any other information site for that matter though luckily there is LoGH, you would probably end up being disappointed as well, as a good number of the titles aren't something an experienced fan of other entertainment mediums would find to be enjoyable, or even good at all. That's understandable, but it kind of irks me that people who have open preferences when it comes to anime and manga (not referring to this discussion, but in general) would be prejudiced against visual novels as a medium. I also do think that starting with more obscure recommendations meaning everything other than Key and Type-Moon titles and finding what individually suits you best, than jumping into the more popular entries, developing an interest is the most important thing when getting into something. |
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| I'm sorry, but are you complaining about the wordiness of a visual novel? Aside from some stills and pretty music, that's about all we've got to go on. You know, the words. It's a format. Some do it worse than others, sure, but it's a method that is the medium. As for varying quality, there are varying writers. Simple as that. I don't just mean that for different VNs, either. Multiple writers can work on a single VN, and as such different parts of the same game will be better or worse. Take Katawa Shoujo for instance, each girl's route was written by a different person, and sometimes it's obvious which ones have been in an actual relationship. Anyway, read a few more. This time just pick ones that are labeled as short (2-10 hours) and I think you'll be better off. That, or VNs just aren't for you, and that's fine too. P.S. to Sushi: If you don't like hentai in your VNs, stop reading hentai VNs. |
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