Vinland Saga
| Okay, I never understood why some people say this. Everyone has their own opinions, but the thing is no one has anything objective to say about it. In all honesty, Ketil farm is probably the best part of Vinland Saga. The Character development here especially for Thorfinn is amazing. Plus I love how the manga author has added more political intrigue into the series then before. Vinland saga keeps getting better and better. Those who don't like this arc clearly have never read a seinen before. They came into it with this misconceived notion that this manga is nothing but action, action, action, action. Seinens aren't like that; yes they do have action but the main focus is the storytelling and characterization. If you want all action then go read a shonen. What are you're thoughts on this ? Why do you think some people don't like the ketil farm arc ? Do you yourself not like this current arc ? |
| Maybe it's because those people expect action and war, personally I think the manga will be more and more about pacifism and anti-war messages and less about cool fights. So far I'm neutral about it, I want to see were it will actually go. |
| I love the new ideology of Thorfinn that the plot follows now. Can't wait to see what this will turn out to be. |
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figuette said: Yeah that's what I thought. But still this manga isn't just about fights.Maybe it's because those people expect action and war, personally I think the manga will be more and more about pacifism and anti-war messages and less about cool fights. So far I'm neutral about it, I want to see were it will actually go. |
Nidstang said: Yeah Thorfinns change of character and new insight on life is great. Mostly likely the story will turn into a tale of redemption once him and einar set sail for Vinland.I love the new ideology of Thorfinn that the plot follows now. Can't wait to see what this will turn out to be. |
REDrobotgirl said: Hey don't sweat it man. That's your opinion and I respect it. But you see that's the thing, no one has any objective criticism to make about the later part of the manga. It just seems to be peoples bias preferences about it. No, cool fights were never a bad thing, it's just that they aren't the most important thing. Considering the fact that this manga is seinen, you shouldn't go into it with the mind set that the main focus is all on the fights.I over all respect the character development of Thorfinn, but I think that he has changed a little too much. Hes not the same bad ass character that I fell in love with and that made me keep reading. I'm still going to read on, I know that the story will still be good, its just not really the same as when I started reading. Sorry that's not what everyone wants to hear, but I liked it better before.. people are making it seem like the cool fight scenes were a bad thing. |
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KingIK said: Yeah that's what I thought. But still this manga isn't just about fights. Yep, but it started as a revenge story, although to be honest I more or less expected it to go the way it went, with revenge being Thorfinn's downfall, there are plenty moments in the beginning where he is practically told over and over again that "revenge is bad" and that he is a stupid kid, which he was. So far Thorfinn has been developing pretty well, if a tad melodramatic (I have no idea what Dangerr is talking about) I'm more curious about what will happen with the historical aspect of the story. Canute character went into la-la land more or less, but I think he still has a role to play, so I wonder what Vinland will be in this story, so far it seems to be symbolic. |
figuette said: KingIK said: (I have no idea what Dangerr is talking about) It's just an image I found that I thought was amusing: It's basically addressing the people complaining about "Farmland Saga", while those of us who've been reveling in the character development have had something to be more than happy about. Einar represents latter, while Thorfinn represents the former. |
| If it's difficult to let the action go, just think about it as being two volumes in a series of novels (since it's long enough to be that anyway) The first book, which is finished, was about Thorfinn working for Askeladd and killing people. It was an action story, that's for sure. This second volume is about the events that happen on this farm, and is more of a subtle historical drama. But really even if, like me, you enjoy action more than subtle drama, it's hard not to feel like a monster whenever you think "Ah, it's too bad he's not fighting anymore" because he was severely miserable during that time. But really I think that him setting sail for Vinland should be the last page of the last chapter of this manga, because as good as the series has been so far, I really don't think any writer anywhere is ready to write a story about Vikings fighting the Iroquois with any level of sincerity. |
ravaJun 24, 2013 12:26 PM
| It makes me think of "Vagabond". I've never been too much into the whole "let's harvest crops during 50 chapters it sounds so cool." I always have the feeling mangas are going too far. The hero is at first some super fighter with no brain and then he transforms into some kind of super pacifist who likes to be beaten to a pulp and insulted. What a curious way of life. |
| I agree completely with the OP, I'm also astonished that there's some people who didn't like this arc. Hell, the first 20- something chapters of VS felt very lukewarm to me (and I even dropped it for a while) and it only got better and better ever since and its on levels that I didn't believe it would ever get to.. |
| I wouldn't say it went downhill, it just took a different direction. I actually really enjoyed the current arc, it added a lot of depth to Thorfin and was interesting for what it was. My only problem is that I don't know how I feel about the ''new'' Thorfin. I can't really imagine how the story will advance from here. EmptyRoom said: I personally do not like how they made such an extreme change in Thorfinn. Character development is good, but making Thorfinn into such an extreme pacifist in the short amount of time is going strongly against the entire revenge aspect of the chapters before it. Askeladd was Thorfin's reason for existing. It was the most and only important thing to him. It would have been quite unrealistic, if he didn't change so drastically. |
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| Technically, until this arc he wasn't even really the main character. He was just kind of...there. This was very much needed character development and is a nice change of pace. People just expected more action is all. I guess they wanted it to be like Berserk or something. |
| Wall of text incoming: From the start, it was stated by the author that Vinland Saga is a retelling of the Viking attempt to colonize North America (Vinland), not a shonen action series of any sort. Anyone who's read his debut work (Planetes) would be expecting a series about exploration and colonization of unknown lands, not a shonen power ladder. In other words, this manga was never intended as an action adventure manga at all. The ultraviolence and the Vikings' attitude towards their own barbarism was meant to shock people into understanding why Thorfinn running away in the end (to Vinland) is not an act of cowardice. Now, why was that necessary? In the West, there is an attitude that explorers who found new settlements on new land are brave heroes. However, in Japan, the history of the colonization of Ezo (Hokkaido, but before that the northern tip of Honshu) was one wrought with shame. Settlers were losers or criminals who were pushed out of "proper" society. In particular, many of the early settlers of Hokkaido were actually families of defeated rebels in the unification of Japan, then reinforced with Imperial colonists in the Meiji era who were disenfranchised families of defeated samurai during the reformation. It was necessary for Vinland Saga to establish that the explorers who went to Vinland were brave, strong men and women, not losers. There would have been no need for this in the West due to the automatic assumption that if you're an explorer you've gotta be a brave, dashing, rough-and-tumble outdoors superhero to begin with, but in Japan, you'd be viewed as a misfit loser with nowhere to go in civilized society; little more than trash meant to seed the wastelands so decent folk can come and live there later (which was, in a shell, how the original settlers of Hokkaido were treated by the imperial gov't). Of course, attitudes are different now and there is greater respect for those hardy souls who opened up the north of Japan today. However, the soto-uchi principle prevalent in Japan still causes people to view those who leave for new lands as cowards, so there is a need for Vinland Saga to first establish that this was not true. That's what the ultraviolence was meant for, although admittedly the mangaka probably went overboard with it. The second thing ultraviolence is meant to establish in this manga is the reason for these otherwise brave and strong men and women to leave their society. In short, if you left a working society with established rules and security for conformists, you might look like a loser to the Japanese (who believe that conformity itself is the mark of adulthood requiring strong mental discipline and silent courage), but if you left a hell on earth where people might get butchered at the drop of a hat and women and children are little more than livestock, ruled by a bunch of violent non-conformists with not a hint of a shred of any minute mental ability whatsoever to even begin to try to want to think about ways in which they could start to attempt to comprehend the very basic idea of self-discipline, you might have a point. This, then, is why the 60-or-so chapters preceding Farmland Saga were billed as a prelude. They were meant to draw people in and give a foundation for the reasons driving the main characters to go to Vinland. Even then, a hint of the Japanese attitude is shown in chapter 98 (Thorfinn himself admitted he's running away). That single statement is the whole reason the Askelladd saga(Prologue) was needed. WE, the readers, know that this is a statement made not by a quivering coward but by a jaded veteran of many wars who thought his entire world was shit (actually, so does Canute). Thorfinn's running away is an act of courage, not cowardice. He is basically giving the finger to the entire godforsaken Viking world. Going back to the original intent of the manga (retelling of the Viking attempt to colonize North America), here's how the manga is actually set up so far: 1. Thorfinn's childhood as a "typical" Viking boy (well, okay, this one was botched all to hell). 2. Thorfinn realizing his world was shit (end of Askelladd saga). 3. Learning the skills to start a colony (Farmland Saga). Ketil's farm is actually set up like a colony; they even had to clear the land before anything else. 4. Thorfinn finding the reason, the means, and the people to go to Vinland (Canute's invasion). 5. Get on the fucking boat! |
RedgraveGilverFeb 23, 2014 3:54 AM
| No one has talked about this for over a year and even though we are not at Ketil farm anymore the consequences of that arc still follow so I didn't want to create a new topic/thread. A lot of people in this topic seem to be saying it's wrong that we want battle, but that was what I was looking for when I started reading Vinland. Don't get me wrong I read all kinds of manga and I think Vinland as it is is still interesting...but not just what I was looking for when I started reading it. There is so few good battle/action manga available anyway so it saddens me that Vinland which was very good and interesting battle manga, made a complete u-turn and turned into farming/making a colony. But I do still feel it's interesting and the new arc is looking like it will go to a better direction after looooong character development so I will still keep reading...but I'm missing the battles |
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| The people who read VS (or Berserk, Vagabond and similar series for that matter) only for violence and blood are idiots who don't even understand the point the authors try to make. They probably associate Seinen as a synonyme for some edgy action Shounen that is usually about the same revenge crap and "grey morality", but really just lacks the depth VS and Co. manage to create and ultimately just serve as violence fanservice for teenagers who have yet to grow up. |
NidhoeggrApr 27, 2015 9:30 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| The Ketil farm arc, though having served its purpose, kind of ended in a weird way tbh, particularly some characters like Thorgin appeared overly stereotypical at times. However, my main concern is with the direction the manga has taken since then. This whole shift of 'Vinland' being a symbolic gesture of rekindling of lost faith to now being just a destination aka an adventure-ish feel isn't actually as intriguing as the manga initially appeared. I sort of agree with the problems associated with the character development of characters, particularly Canute. Though intriguing, much of it was either due to a time skip or just too fast to get a substantial feel of it. But knowing the mangaka, maybe he has some plans for the future. That's all I'm hoping for atm. |
TrequartistaMay 18, 2015 7:23 AM
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
Nidhoeggr said: The people who read VS (or Berserk, Vagabond and similar series for that matter) only for violence and blood are idiots who don't even understand the point the authors try to make. They probably associate Seinen as a synonyme for some edgy action Shounen that is usually about the same revenge crap and "grey morality", but really just lacks the depth VS and Co. manage to create and ultimately just serve as violence fanservice for teenagers who have yet to grow up. How pretentious- does a more conceited method of self-congratulation even exist? Your sweeping generalizations and diatribes aside, the reason this manga's quality has gone down is the character development is unrealistic. Here's what I said about this issue on an another thread: It's more because there is no real character development in the traditional sense where we actually witnessed the change. In Vinland Saga, character development, aside from Askeladd-Thorfinn, relies on instantaneous changes in personality or time skips. Canutes' change from the reclusive shy boy to the authoritive warband leader happened in a very implausible instantaneous manner, whilst his development into a charismatic, shrewd warrior-prince happened over a time skip. Thorfinn's crucial development from Norse assassin into pacifistic farmer-thrall occurred over a lazy time skip. Perhaps if I saw what led him to become a slave, and a pacifist from Askeladd's death, I would be more receptive to the change. Instead, we get a lazy before-and-after shot, and because of this, it just seems like Farmland-arc Thorfinn is a new character rather than a maturation of Askeladd-arc Thorfinn. I will say as someone versed in Icelandic and early Medieval history, his hardcore pacifistic personality is highly irregular for the society and psychology of the time in regards to someone of his status in society. Rather, it seems the mangaka is forcing hardcore Japanese Bushido on a character in the turbulent 11th century Europe (which has very different moral codes and beliefs compared to 16th-17th century Japan) |
OrvietoJun 21, 2015 12:15 PM
| Thorfinn became a fucking girl after Askeladd/Canute arc. |
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| Both arcs are amazing, for me they are at the same level, but they have different styles |
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| This little by little is becoming berserk... and I love berserk... |
| <img src="http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6832/anigiftus.gif"/> |
| it's because you are reading it monthly farming arc is pretty good for me |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| I don't think it goes down in quality, in any way. However, I would like Thorffin to not completely reject violence. Like, killing people - okay, don't do this. But can't you just go the Kenshin way? Or do what your father did? And, well, he does indeed do those things from time to time, so I don't mind all that much. However, if it's action, it's still here. There's Thorkell, who will fight literally anything he sees, there's now Garm, who is pretty much like Thorkell. Not to mention, lots of people target Thorffin right now, so he will have to resort to violence, once in a while. But overall, in the end, just action all the time, can get boring, so getting a little rest from all the intense action, developing the characters, having new things introduced in the series, a little bit of learning and all, it's rather refreshing after the non-stop fighting. And, it's not like I would not like it if it was only fighting non-stop. I wouldn't mind that at all, and would actually have no complaints. Nevertheless, I do not think it was a bad choice to have no fights for a while, like I said, it's kinda refreshing, and it's rather interesting. Learning new things is interesting, seeing the chracters develop is fun, we also got lots of new characters that will make things even more interesting. And let's not forget how political and philosophical it becomes. Who hates politics and philosophy? TL;DR: Those who said that should just go read some shounen. Once they get tired on non-stop fighting (in case they do), they can always come back to this series, and enjoy plenty of other things presented in it. |
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