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Andrew729 said: Oh don't get me wrong, you didn't offend me at all. And I see your point about the "criticisms" people give against the Gargantians being rhetorically similar to right-wing positions. I prefer to think of them more as caricatures of true right-wing philosophy, but I digress. I'm with you on most of this. Sorry if I offended you politically, but, heh, you probably are familiar with all the posts bashing the Gargantians as pacifistic "ocean hippies". As I said before, Gen doesn't seem to think too highly of utilitarianism. In that sense, the Alliance is probably this show's equivalent of Kyubey and Sybil (or rather, whoever came up with the idea for Sybil and designed it; I really wish Psycho-Pass would've covered that). Kyubey wasn't evil per se; he just saw a solution to a problem and decided to solve it in the most efficient way possible, no matter how much suffering and destruction it caused. Given Gen's tradition of utilitarian antagonists, I have to believe the Alliance has similar motives. At the same time, I share your belief that humanity probably also started the initial conflict or created the Hideauze somehow. Of course, a lot of anime and other sci-fi material have followed similar plotlines; it would be interesting if I'm proven completely wrong. That's why I'm watching. I actually haven't seen Psycho-Pass or any othe Gen work besides Phantom (I think he did Phantom), but I have to say that I am absolutely with him on being anti-utilitarianism. And thus far, the show has actually given a very good argument against it in the form of Bevel. His question to Ledo was excellent, and further was posed in a very believable way: "What happens when the war ends?" It is exactly the type of question a child would ask, and exactly the question that pokes the holes in the Alliance's philosophy. My theory is that the Hideauze were attacked by the Alliance as a way to start a war. Utilitarian, militaristic societies all have one thing in common: they can only survive if they are in a constant state of war. When there is no enemy, the state must create an enemy. Otherwise there would be no purpose to the continuation of the utilitarianism and militarism. A lot of Sci-Fi has dealt with those kinds of themes, and for good reason. Human history (and even our modern world) is full of examples of societies just like the Alliance. Societies where war is the ultimate purpose and the ultimate end for all human interaction and existence. It's a theme of humanity and society that resonates deep to our cores. Bevel's question could most accurately be answered by saying: "The war will never end" or perhaps, "When the war ends, we will start a new one." That is the ultimate danger of Ledo's actions: he is risking being the cause of the very thing he is trying to prevent. If he starts a war with the whale-squids, he will turn Gargantia into the Alliance. I could be totally wrong, but it seems that the overall, central theme of the show is anti-utilitarianism and more generally, anti-totalitarianism. This is shown through Ledo and his growth. To be honest, Ledo is a very realistic portrayal of a child-soldier who has grown up in a society that is entirely based and rooted in war. He is cold, logical, rigid, unoriginal in thought and action, and he has no respect for human life. In a normal society, under normal circumstances, we would call him a monster. Good for nothing but the elimination of life. However, he is torn from his "Sparta" and put in a place of peace and freedom. He is given the chance to be another person. He is slowly becoming less cold, more emotional, more flexible. He's show sparks of originality, and is beginning formulating his own desires and beliefs. He is showing rebelliousness to his authority, and is showing curiosity. He now respects human life for it's own sake and not just it's worth to the continuation of the State. And he is beginning to love. He shows regret over his brother who was eliminated. He shows regret in leaving Amy and Bevel. So far, the show has been amazing in it's depth concerning Ledo and his slow transformation and healing. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| Pretty sad episode. :( A lot has changed as well. We're already eight episodes in, so I wonder who they'll be following from now on and if they'll meet each other again in the coming episodes. Something tells me the fleet will rejoin Gargantia again before long. |
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| Ledo is finally leaving that ball of losers. Let's hope the show gets good now. |
xAvengerx said: Anybody know how far the manga of Suisei no Gargantia is? Hoping a season 2 is scheduled for this fall/winter. Actually, I've heard that it doesn't have a manga and it's a show that's been produced only for on-screen purposes. But I searched it up a little and on the two manga websites that I visited, only the very first chapter (which is the entire first episode) was posted. The second chapter or any following it have not been posted. One site also hinted at a 'Suisei no Gargantia 2', but I'm not quite sure about that so don't get too excited. I also checked with Wikipedia and it stated that a few months before the show began, the official website was updated with short stories (5 of them that were made public only for a short while) that introduced Gargantia. Also, not sure if you'd care but I found it rather interesting, Wikipedia also mentioned: "Some weeks after the series started airing, a character design contest related to the anime series was announced. It will be hosted on Pixiv, and series director Murata himself and members of Production I.G. will judge the entries submitted until the deadline of May 12, 11:59 PM. The winning design shall be featured in the last episode of the anime series." Well, at least the last episode will be something to look forward to, even if the story continues to wander around aimlessly. Maybe this Urobuchi will kill everyone off in a fit of rage, that would certainly be amusing. |
| A heartwarming and good buildup eps towards the oncoming clash.. At the next eps preview, looks like Ledo and Pinion got surprised by an explosion.. |
Claude_KennyMay 27, 2013 4:33 PM
| Keep moving forward |
| @Takuan_Soho Couldn't have said it better myself. I'll check again on this thread later. |
| bleh kinda slow but hopefully its gunna pick up soon. |
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| A little more action please. |
| That revelation at the beginning... Ridget made this episode good, didn't really care about the funereal of Fairlock. |
| So what happens to Amy, Bellows, and Ridget now? I can only assume we'll be following Pinion and Ledo's exploits against the Hideauze for the rest of the season but does that mean the characters who stayed behind are written out of the series? If so that's disappointing because this does not feel like a good sendoff for them at all. Amy and Ledo's dynamic has always been one of the main draws of the show for me and not just because she likes him : P It's interesting how far Ledo has come since the beginning of the season. As what I said in a previous episode post, now that Ledo has carved out his own personality his drive for vengeance against the Hideauze is stronger than ever. It felt nice to get self validated when Amy was talking about how he seems more tormented than when they first met. I get where's Ledo coming from in that he wants to protect the Gargantia and Amy for the future because he knows how big of a threat the Hideauze can be but I'm not sure if he knows by leaving he's making Amy sad in the process. Bebel tried to communicate that to him but it obviously wasn't successful. Ledo wants to prevent Amy from becoming sad should the Hideauze kill Bevel if left unchecked but in the process of leaving he's doing the exact thing he's trying to prevent. Hopefully we see Amy and the others story conclude in this last stretch of the show but I'm looking forward to underwater exploration next week |
HybridMBLMay 28, 2013 6:40 AM
AidanAK47 said: AlexGK said: Emotional scenes wont work that well when you didn't have any attachment to the characters in question. And so far we haven't seen anything spectacular from the captain. To me he looked like loved but weak leader. Dunno, might just be me, but the show is the greatest letdown for me in recent years. Even greater than SAO, and that's saying much. Score down to 5/10 and with the 4 episodes that we have left this looks like a lost cause already. What a waste of setting, art, music and VA talent. Hmm...I could argue with you but I have this rule were I check a persons taste before I argue with them. So lets see... Anime completed = 105 Favorite anime = Toradora, Naruto: Shippuuden, Fairytale. Animes given a 10 = Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai!, Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo, B Gata H Kei, Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai. ....and you dare lecture others on good storytelling and taste? Come back when you have become a veteran young Padawan. Not even worth my time. Good thing this post, I have to edit my faves, since that was my list like 3 years ago :D Keep in mind that storytelling isn't the only thing to be rated in a show. And not all of us are rating with that low of a base like you. The reason being that the average MAL score people give is 7, not 5. I know its wrong but dragging down good shows just because almost everything is overrated is not my thing. If you think this is doing great, good for you. |
Takuan_Soho said: StopDropAndBowl said: Utilitarian military states are inherently evil. Throughout all of human history there has not been a single instance of a utilitarian military state that respected human life, guaranteed civil rights, or ensured the greater prosperity of it's citizens. Uhm, until 1776 there wasn't ANY form of government that did that. Of course today democracy is preferable to a military state, but there are plenty of scenarios where you would beg for the stability of a "utilitarian military state". Charlemagne sure beat being attacked by the Saxons, Sparta never bowed to Phillip. If the Hideauze actually were pushing the Alliance to the brink of extinction, then a utilitarian military state far from being evil could be an unqualified good. I am sorry but that is bullshit and fails as an argument. The very idea of utilitarianism is efficiency. So utalitarian military would be more well organized etc. But that does NOT make it "GOOD" or RIGHT, it just makes it EFFICIENT. It does not change the fact that the model itself undermines morality and human values. Should i remind you that your beloved Sparta, while it did beat back Persians, was also responsible for thousands of deaths of their own children. Justify that as good, please I can't wait to see you try. . Takuan_Soho said: Ever see squids eat? Be careful with your arms if you ever see a Humboldt Squid. THis is non-argument too, considering Earth-whalesquads did absolutely nothing hostile and so far everythin points to them simply have a deffensive mechanism of their community. Takuan_Soho said: Have you seen the teeth on those suckers (literally). I would not want to be in the water unprotected from them. Given their size, a human would make a tasty morsel. Have you SEEEN the tanks and airships USA has? I would not want to land on earth unprotected from those. Let's nuke USA, yay~ Takuan_Soho said: Only because we live in a world without scarcity. Read up on what happens during famines. It is not a pretty picture. Oh, though I am agnostic, one of the amazing accomplishments of Christianity is that it stamped out "death by exposure" which was very prevalent in the Roman empire. Still not hearing on why its in anyway justified. Takuan_Soho said: The whole, lets not kill the pirates was sort of a indication of this, and Amy certainly has that viewpoint. But you are right the show hasn't explicitly made that point, but that sort of plays into Morrow's view that this show is avoiding these questions. Pirates is a political reason first and moral reason second. Politically, agression like that results in retaliation, cue circle of attack and response and increased casualties on both sides. And morally the pirates are criminals, that does NOT make them not deserving human rights. They have to answer for their crimes and they can be hurt when you defend against them, but genocide is not an answer. Takuan_Soho said: It ain't over yet. He may not be able to return to the alliance, but the war isn't over for him, he knows that people are fighting out there for him. To pretend that its "over" for him is ridiculous, only ignorant people can believe that, not people who know what is going on. Just because one "can't" do something doesn't mean that they should forget about it. Yes its over for him. Its not psychologically over for him, but its quite obvious there was no war anyway, just a genocide of sentient species. Takuan_Soho said: Your first point was very good, however your second point isn't. If the Alliance was irrelevant then they could have made it clear in episode 2 or 3 that he couldn't return home. Waiting until episode 8 is a pretty clear indication that the Alliance is very relevant, otherwise the writer created a huge anti-climatic scene which would only cause the audience disappointment. That is bad writing. Or it simply created the conflict between Ledo's utalitarian past and the more pacifistic earth lifestyle. It showcases that he can't just escape the moral dilemma present now. |
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| And Urobuchi-sensei just killed a poor oldman again :( A bit sad episode huh? I just hope they don't need to part Well that's life, meeting & parting Next ep, it'll be fight between Ledo & Whalesquid(Hideauze)? |
"Signature removed"   |
| Urobuchi wrote fucking two episodes........ Don't confuse this as Urobuchi's sole work, please. |
| This was a sad episode The atmosphere and OST was beautiful. It really fitted the mood of this episodes. With the commander dead. People on Gargantia are leaving. Ridget with the most character development in this episode. She decides to lead everyone as the new Fleet Commander. Amy has conflicting feelings with Ledo. He leaves with Pinon and others to face Hideazu. |
Takuan_Soho said: Uhm, until 1776 there wasn't ANY form of government that did that. Of course today democracy is preferable to a military state, but there are plenty of scenarios where you would beg for the stability of a "utilitarian military state". Charlemagne sure beat being attacked by the Saxons, Sparta never bowed to Phillip. If the Hideauze actually were pushing the Alliance to the brink of extinction, then a utilitarian military state far from being evil could be an unqualified good. The problem here is that you aren't incorrect, but you're looking at things way to simplistically. It is true that the American government was a true revolution in the sense of protecting/respecting human rights. However, you've neglected the degree to which things differed in the past. The Magna Carta was an example of protection of human rights. The Roman Constitution. The fact is that there was a difference between Sparta and Athens, and for the modern man, though living in both would be a horror by our standards, living in Athens would be far preferable. Even in the past, there were governments and states where a pure utilitarian/military philosophy wasn't embraced and those governments almost universally lasted longer and were better than the alternative. Further, we aren't discussing times long past, we are discussing times in the relative future for both societies. The past is not as applicable as the modern age, and in the modern age those governments that embraced utilitarianism have been horror states and universally were less powerful than their more democratic neighbors. It is a very flawed idea that militarism and utilitarianism serves a society better in the case of danger. The American and British empires prove this idea to be incorrect. Both were more powerful than any other empire before them, both being freer and more humane than any other empire. Ever see squids eat? Be careful with your arms if you ever see a Humboldt Squid. Many creatures will eat humans. None of them engage in genocidal wars against mankind. Have you seen the teeth on those suckers (literally). I would not want to be in the water unprotected from them. Given their size, a human would make a tasty morsel. And yet there doesn't seem to be a wide history of them attacking or consuming humans. Further, they don't show overt hostility. Consuming humans is one thing: committing war upon them is something else entirely. Ledo seems to be under the impression that the Hideauze want to destroy mankind utterly. Unless the squid were sentient, this would not make sense; creatures do not do such things. If they are sentient, than it would make no sense that they show no hostility to the primitive humans on Gargantia. Only because we live in a world without scarcity. Read up on what happens during famines. It is not a pretty picture. Oh, though I am agnostic, one of the amazing accomplishments of Christianity is that it stamped out "death by exposure" which was very prevalent in the Roman empire. Famines are largely man-made in the modern age. In fact, did you know that no famine has ever occurred in a modern democracy, or in a country with a free-press? There is no reason to believe that the Alliance lives in a state of horrible scarcity, despite what their propaganda may suggest. There is no evidence either way, really, except for the fact that the Alliance is surely not a democracy, surely doesn't have a free-press, and surely does possess every attribute of a brutal, totalitarian state. Those point to a war started by them and maintained by them, rather than the opposite. The whole, lets not kill the pirates was sort of a indication of this, and Amy certainly has that viewpoint. But you are right the show hasn't explicitly made that point, but that sort of plays into Morrow's view that this show is avoiding these questions. Amy most definitely doesn't have that attitude or viewpoint. She has never said that killing anyone is always wrong. And there argument about why not to wipe out the pirates was largely political, not an exercise in pacifism. They actually did fight and kill pirates. They just didn't want to start a war. And yes, they did not like that Ledo indiscriminately annihilated pirates... but in the modern age we (the general public) hold similar views. We don't wipe out entire nations in war; we don't kill people unless there is no other way to avoid the death. If a show of force suffices, we use it rather than nuking them all into oblivion. The closest the show has gotten to making a pacifist point is that it suggests taking a human life should never be done lightly... something that, again, most people in a modern society would agree with. It ain't over yet. He may not be able to return to the alliance, but the war isn't over for him, he knows that people are fighting out there for him. To pretend that its "over" for him is ridiculous, only ignorant people can believe that, not people who know what is going on. Just because one "can't" do something doesn't mean that they should forget about it. The war isn't over yet, that's the point of the show. His place in the war is ending. I suspect that the end of the show will be the end of his war. It could very well be, and is likely, that the war itself is not being conducted for any other purpose but to advance the Alliance's sociopolitical agenda. That is the point, his war isn't going to continue for very long. Whether he knows it or not, whether he likes it or not, he is no longer a soldier of the Alliance. His acceptance of Gargantia has destroyed that. Your first point was very good, however your second point isn't. If the Alliance was irrelevant then they could have made it clear in episode 2 or 3 that he couldn't return home. Waiting until episode 8 is a pretty clear indication that the Alliance is very relevant, otherwise the writer created a huge anti-climatic scene which would only cause the audience disappointment. That is bad writing. Your third point is generally true, however when you are talking about pretty important parts of the plot forced exposition sure beats nothing. Also, it would help if the writer didn't throw out things you think are going to be important, and then never mention them again. The Alliance is only relevant in the way that they deal with Ledo. They are not relevant on their own, they hold no actual importance other than how they pertain to Ledo's mental/moral state. They are, essentially, a set-piece. The reveal for Ledo was important, the reveal for the sake of the Alliance was not. Even if the Alliance has an important part to play later in the story, there would still be no use for back-story on them because they do not matter in any way other than their relationship with Ledo. The story is about Ledo, it is not about the Alliance. It is not about the war. It is about Ledo. I can't repeat this enough: This is a character story. It is not an event story. |
| Let's go bowling. |
Takuan_Soho said: Without the Spartan victory, Athens would have been destroyed. Never heard of the Athenian Navy, huh? |
| Let's go bowling. |
| Damn you Ledo, making Amy cry. And I cried when Ridget did. T_T |
| I was the one who started the political debate, and I must say I feel sorry for doing so. StopDropAndBowl, from what I've seen, you've been inside Wall Maria for too long. Physically of course, but also intellectually and psychologically. The Hideauze ARE CAPABLE of destroying human settlements unprovoked. I'll give a couple of points of inconclusive proof to consider: 1. Pictures of swarms of Hideauze overrunning portions of Avalon. I know you think this is propaganda, but perhaps it might be equally objective to consider that maybe it's not? Why have the Hideauze reached so far into human territory in the first place? Is it not because they first attacked and humans had to defend? In episode one we see them conducting war after entering the Hideauze's nest, only to be mercilessly wiped out. Is it not logical to want to find the source when you are confronted with waves of intruders, sentient or not? Why can you not accept the idea that the Hideauze may actually be endangering human existence? When anything reeks of brainwashing military regime, you just automatically assume that it is? It's because we humans haven't been endangered in so long that we're not even considering the possibility that we might be vulnerable. Now do you see where I'm going with the comparison to SnK? 2. The Hideauze are willing to leave their nest in pursuit of the Alliance. Kugel stayed behind to stop the Hideauze because he was afraid they would follow them into the wormhole before Lamorak took off. It may be hard to say if they're "hellbent" on destroying the human race, but they are in fact preying on humans. They continued giving chase in swarms even after the Alliance was in full retreat. 3. The Hideauze are after energy, intelligently coordinated or not. Some of the Hideauze consumed their units whole, and on two instances were said to be attempting to devour them for energy. You could say the entire battle was a sort of feeding time for the Hideauze. They were stung a little in the beginning, but eventually succeeded in disarming their prey and digesting the dispersed remains. The Hideauze are the predators because human establishments contain energy, which is something they are after, whereas humans have no apparent reason to kill the Hideauze (and waste a lot of energy in the process) other than to protect themselves from the threat of annihilation. Space is vast, if the humans could have just ignored them, they would have simply moved somewhere else. In other words, it IS kill or be killed. 4. The Earth Hideauze pose a potential threat to the Gargantians. Ledo has already given us a plausible reason for why he continues to fight. The whalesquids are leaving the Gargantians alone because they don't have anything the whalesquids want, or if they do it's not enough to attract their attention. It makes perfect sense, and I'm sure whatever dialogue actually appears in the show holds a lot more importance than our conjectures. Plus, I don't know if you remember that scene where Ledo killed the whalesquid; it latched onto Bellows' machine even though Bellows did nothing to it. |
tealcactusMay 29, 2013 12:41 AM
skudoops said: Gargantia needs to get back to what they were doing during Episodes 5 and 6. Last two episodes have been terrible. Two pointless fan-service episodes was enough. The last two episodes have slightly improved things and it needs to continue in this direction with more action. |
TheGreat1s said: skudoops said: Gargantia needs to get back to what they were doing during Episodes 5 and 6. Last two episodes have been terrible. Two pointless fan-service episodes was enough. The last two episodes have slightly improved things and it needs to continue in this direction with more action. Agreed. |
[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Num1dad_Asura] [/url] Click Here for Sig source |
| I'm not saying that the Hideauze are harmless, I'm saying that the explanation given by the Alliance and Ledo is not sufficient. Further, that we have good reason to doubt the Alliance given the nature of their society and the nature of the Hideauze on Earth. Perhaps the Alliance is being truthful (though one wonders why they would need to hide things from their own soldiers if they were), but it is likely that they are not. Besides, this is all somewhat irrelevant in it's own way. I will say this: if one does not agree with the argument put forward by a story, one is much more likely to not like the story itself. The argument of this particular show seems to be more anti-utilitarian. It seems to be showing this through the way Ledo is so completely effed up by modern standards before he comes to Gargantia. I don't think people noticed, but Ledo was basically a robot before he came. He didn't react at all when his comrade was killed, had no compunctions about annihilating people en masse, and openly told Bevel that he was a waste of resources. If you happen to be of the political/moral belief that this is all perfectly acceptable, then you will most likely not like the show, as it's point is that it isn't perfectly acceptable. It's point is that Ledo is messed up and is going through a process of healing by coming to Gargantia and learning a different way of life. The Gargantians live with scarcity, they live under serious threats, but they do not engage in the kind of actions that the Alliance does. If you find that to be unrealistic due to whatever political persuasion or moral beliefs that you hold, than the show will necessarily seem unrealistic to you. The non-religious will not generally not appreciate C.S. Lewis' Cosmic Trilogy as much as the religious. The communist will generally not appreciate Darkness at Noon as much as the anti-communist. Such is the nature of fiction. When one puts in no argument, one's fiction is stale and boring. When one puts in an argument, one alienates most of those who disagree. I find Gargantia to be an excellent show, primarily because I agree and sympathize with the arguments it has put forward and the themes it seems to be portraying. On a purely technical level, the show has been near perfect. The pacing has been good, not too rushed, but not too slow. The dialogue is believable, the story intriguing and logical, and the direction has been very good. People may complain about the middle episodes, but those are largely misinterpretations of the show itself. They expected an action-mecha, therefore they see those episodes as "filler". If one expects a character drama, and then realizes the character we have: a soldier who knows nothing of peace or self-fulfillment, than the episodes become an interesting and fun exploration into the character. They are, arguably, more pertinent and relevant than the battle in the first episode. Obviously there were some misconceptions about what the show is, and then there is regret at it not fulfilling the role it is perceived to have been attempting to fulfill. Personally, I am more interested in a character story about a child-soldier given another chance at life than I am yet another action story with giant robots. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: I'm not saying that the Hideauze are harmless, I'm saying that the explanation given by the Alliance and Ledo is not sufficient. Further, that we have good reason to doubt the Alliance given the nature of their society and the nature of the Hideauze on Earth. Perhaps the Alliance is being truthful (though one wonders why they would need to hide things from their own soldiers if they were), but it is likely that they are not. Besides, this is all somewhat irrelevant in it's own way. I will say this: if one does not agree with the argument put forward by a story, one is much more likely to not like the story itself. The argument of this particular show seems to be more anti-utilitarian. It seems to be showing this through the way Ledo is so completely effed up by modern standards before he comes to Gargantia. I don't think people noticed, but Ledo was basically a robot before he came. He didn't react at all when his comrade was killed, had no compunctions about annihilating people en masse, and openly told Bevel that he was a waste of resources. If you happen to be of the political/moral belief that this is all perfectly acceptable, then you will most likely not like the show, as it's point is that it isn't perfectly acceptable. It's point is that Ledo is messed up and is going through a process of healing by coming to Gargantia and learning a different way of life. The Gargantians live with scarcity, they live under serious threats, but they do not engage in the kind of actions that the Alliance does. If you find that to be unrealistic due to whatever political persuasion or moral beliefs that you hold, than the show will necessarily seem unrealistic to you. The non-religious will not generally not appreciate C.S. Lewis' Cosmic Trilogy as much as the religious. The communist will generally not appreciate Darkness at Noon as much as the anti-communist. Such is the nature of fiction. When one puts in no argument, one's fiction is stale and boring. When one puts in an argument, one alienates most of those who disagree. I find Gargantia to be an excellent show, primarily because I agree and sympathize with the arguments it has put forward and the themes it seems to be portraying. On a purely technical level, the show has been near perfect. The pacing has been good, not too rushed, but not too slow. The dialogue is believable, the story intriguing and logical, and the direction has been very good. People may complain about the middle episodes, but those are largely misinterpretations of the show itself. They expected an action-mecha, therefore they see those episodes as "filler". If one expects a character drama, and then realizes the character we have: a soldier who knows nothing of peace or self-fulfillment, than the episodes become an interesting and fun exploration into the character. They are, arguably, more pertinent and relevant than the battle in the first episode. Obviously there were some misconceptions about what the show is, and then there is regret at it not fulfilling the role it is perceived to have been attempting to fulfill. Personally, I am more interested in a character story about a child-soldier given another chance at life than I am yet another action story with giant robots. Fullmetal Panic does a better job at the child soldier theme >_> It also does romance leagues better than this failure. |
Darklight0303May 29, 2013 8:25 AM
| This is one of the best episodes yet, the backgrounds continue to be beautiful, and Ridget got some character development. It should be a given since she's now the fleet commander and all... But the funeral was still really sad... I like the world building that this show does, and I wish it could be longer so that we could have more of it. Where the story goes from here though, it's really any bodies guess. |
Takuan_Soho said: That is not true. On Earth humanity can live without technology, it would be difficult but possible. You cannot live in space without technology, you really can't "power down" as Gargantia did last episode without freezing too death. So actually, given what we have been shown, the Alliance's statement could very well be factually true. If Humans have the right to space, then the Hideauze as they have been shown on Earth, would have to be dealt with in space. I said before, it could very well be that the Alliance are being truthful. I highly doubt it. Gargantia powered down AFTER one of the Hideauze was attacked and killed. If a citizen of your country was attacked and killed, would you want your government to sit around and do nothing? The Hideauze on Earth showed no signs of aggression BEFORE they were attacked. We can reasonably assume that the Hideauze in space are similar. Perhaps not, but probably so. No we noticed, however remember that people who "do their tour of duty" and allowed to live in Avalon. Children on earth have their choices severely restricted as well, in short they are somewhat like robots expected to do what they are told until they become adults. The Alliance is a more extreme example, but not a totally alien example. I would argue there is an extreme difference. So different that they aren't even close to being comparable. You really need to stop personalizing your argument. No one here is saying that this mode of life is morally superior, we are merely pointing out that if what the Alliance is saying is true, then their mode of existence may be justified. Not Good, but justified. You really need to distinguish between the two. Your argument is that it would be justified. That is a political/moral argument. I would argue that it is unjustified, no matter the circumstances. The argument is necessarily personal. In a place with ample rain and food, no external threads, and good leadership, I can easily believe a place like Gargantia could exist. Which is exactly what I said. You don't see that as being realistic precisely because of the other beliefs you hold... This show started off with 3 action episodes It's a story about a child-soldier... Pacing in this show has been horrific: 3 fast episodes, 5 slow episodes is not pacing. Huh? Fast start -> slow down -> speed back up is a classic part of storytelling... Some of the best works of fiction have this kind of pacing... But that hasn't happened either. 8th episode, and according to your theory Ledo has not advanced. He hasn't learned anything. 1. He wants to protect Amy (in the beginning he could have cared less) 2. He wants to prevent Gargantia from becoming like the Alliance. (in the beginning he wanted the exact opposite) 3. He doesn't see Bevel as a waste of resources. He has undergone changes. Just because you've ignored them doesn't mean they don't exist. Amy is exactly the same way she was in the first episode. Bellows hasn't changed. Pinion hasn't changed. Regdit hasn't changed. They are not the main characters or the focus of the show. However, I think there have been some subtle developments. We have seen that a 10,000 person ship collection can support an entire floor of trannies Do we know there is only 10,000 people? And surprise surprise, prostitutes exist even in small societies... still, you people are focusing on that A LOT. that the big enjoyment of people who live and work in the sun all day, every day of their lives is to sunbathe and then watch young girls belly dance at night, Never been to Hawaii, huh? |
| Let's go bowling. |
Darklight0303 said: Fullmetal Panic does a better job at the child soldier theme >_> It also does romance leagues better than this failure. In a way it does, but then again, it is a completely different situation. Sosuke is not the child of a utilitarian, hyper-militaristic, totalitarian regime. He is not put alone in a completely foreign world (as in, he still has the support system of his old world and is still in the same world he lived in). Ledo's situation is entirely different. Besides, FMP is a classic. Saying that it does it better in some ways isn't saying much. I would say that the romance in FMP is better, but only because the characters are older and it is more comedic. Also, FMP has way more episodes and thus time to develop. Further, the romance is pretty standard in FMP. Nothing to complain about, but nothing to write home about either. Seriously though, A LOT of the problems people have with this series... SnK has way worse. |
StopDropAndBowlMay 29, 2013 2:10 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Darklight0303 said: Fullmetal Panic does a better job at the child soldier theme >_> It also does romance leagues better than this failure. In a way it does, but then again, it is a completely different situation. Sosuke is not the child of a utilitarian, hyper-militaristic, totalitarian regime. He is not put alone in a completely foreign world (as in, he still has the support system of his old world and is still in the same world he lived in). Ledo's situation is entirely different. Besides, FMP is a classic. Saying that it does it better in some ways isn't saying much. I would say that the romance in FMP is better, but only because the characters are older and it is more comedic. Also, FMP has way more episodes and thus time to develop. Further, the romance is pretty standard in FMP. Nothing to complain about, but nothing to write home about either. Seriously though, A LOT of the problems people have with this series... SnK has way worse. No it doesn't. It has the luxury of time required to build things up once Trost battle is over. Meanwhile Suisei squandered its precious time on boosting sales with overload of fanservice. Difference here is SnK didn't have to do such a pandering act. It's already selling like hot cakes. That proves that even the creators didn't have faith in Suisei if they had to resort to such a cheap method to boost the potential sales. Your rationalizing of this fact doesn't change its validity in the least. |
Darklight0303May 29, 2013 2:37 PM
| If one thinks that survival comes before morality, and that this is supported by Darwinism, one has to wonder why the modern world has so thoroughly stamped out utilitarianism as the basis for society? Why did the utilitarian Nazi Germany suffer defeat at the hands of the less utilitarian Allies? Why did the utilitarian Sparta fall to the wayside while the less utilitarian Rome lasted far longer? The idea of a morality beyond that of survival has survived better, and longer, than it's opposite. Ironically, Darwinism has effectively weeded out social Darwinism in the modern, advanced world. |
| Let's go bowling. |
Darklight0303 said: No it doesn't. It has the luxury of time required to build things up once Trost battle is over. Meanwhile Suisei squandered its precious time on boosting sales with overload of fanservice. Difference here is SnK didn't have to do such a pandering act. It's already selling like hot cakes. That proves that even the creators didn't have faith in Suisei if they had to resort to such a cheap method to boost the potential sales. Your rationalizing of this fact doesn't change its validity in the least. I was speaking more on the technical level. The characterization has been flat, the dialogue entirely forgettable, the pacing questionable, the world-building almost entirely empty, the exposition forced, and the logic largely inconsistent or nonexistent. It has largely been a string of "and then's" with almost no "buts and therefore's". Most importantly, there seems to be no real themes being explored in SnK. Perhaps "Fight or die", but that isn't a very inspired theme and really hasn't been explored all that much except for in one episode. In SnG, disagree with the themes or not, at least they are present. I guess we'll just have to disagree on the reasoning behind the middle episodes. I see them as serving a definite, important purpose in the context of the story, with the fan-service being secondary and somewhat unavoidable. You see it as purely for the purpose of selling more DVDs. I've given the reasoning, most of which has been ignored, so as of now, there really isn't anywhere else to go. |
| Let's go bowling. |
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