Sword Art Online (light novel)
Nidhoeggr said: Leapling said: What do you mean it was a disaster? It was GENIUS! :O By your definition a three year old child would be a genius as well. Please elaborate why do you think SAO is so great. SAO was great because it was popular in Japan and it sold. That's how you define good in art, by its success. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Nidhoeggr said: Leapling said: What do you mean it was a disaster? It was GENIUS! :O By your definition a three year old child would be a genius as well. Please elaborate why do you think SAO is so great. SAO was great because it was popular in Japan and it sold. That's how you define good in art, by its success. I'm sure you can troll better. You don't even try anymore, it's kind of sad. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| As long as it has MAL to talk about it, it will always be a masterpiece. Without MAL, it IS a disaster. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
| Bitches be hatin' First half - fine Second half - imouto eyecandy All good. |
We're naked and alone...Let's fuck. |
| Kill Asuna. 90% of the anime's problems are done and done. |
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TonyTin said: Or that.Kill Asuna. 90% of the anime's problems are done and done. |
We're naked and alone...Let's fuck. |
Nidhoeggr said: Immahnoob said: Nidhoeggr said: Leapling said: What do you mean it was a disaster? It was GENIUS! :O By your definition a three year old child would be a genius as well. Please elaborate why do you think SAO is so great. SAO was great because it was popular in Japan and it sold. That's how you define good in art, by its success. I'm sure you can troll better. You don't even try anymore, it's kind of sad. The best lie is the truth. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Tavor said: As long as it has MAL to talk about it, it will always be a masterpiece. Without MAL, it IS a disaster. That would make sense if it wasn't popular in Japan where you know their opinions actually count for something. |
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| Don't really know why people like this show so much, frist half was ok but hardly exceptional the second half however was boring as hell. |
| It was smooth sailing until Kirito How about they make him smart enough to win the battle within the games rules.. |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
| It was smooth sailing until they turned into a bunch of fairies. |
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| if kirito killed that guy in real life |
| RRRRRRRRRR |
Takuan_Soho said: Read through a lot of this thread, which is filled with the usual hate this series seems to garner on the forums. However I am pleasantly surprised to see a post, with constructive criticism that I can actually agree with.Jetstream_Sam said: *SNIP* There isn't enough material for SAO to support 24 episodes, after all it was just 1 light novel and 1 set of side stories. ALO was 2 light novels. No, what would have made the show infinitely better was if the writers spent a single blessed minute thinking about how to tell a story to people who hadn't read the books. The jump from episode 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 was so poorly done as to be almost criminal. Another thing that would have been better was to have Kirito be the narrator. A lot of the humor in the story was internal monologue, plus they could have done what the novel did, start in the present (need the 74th battle) and then have Kirito recall what had happened to him. That way the jumping around in the story wouldn't have been so disruptive. In short, this was a transition issue, not a detail issue. Just lengthening the series when it has such poor screenwriting wouldn't have solved anything. Takuan_Soho is right, there's no way near enough source material for the ALO arc (the weakest arc) to have been scrapped and the SAO arc to have been extended. At most an extra 4 or 5 episodes could have been tacked onto the SAO arc, for the anime, but not enough for the standard 24-26 episode TV slot. And in the end it was the way the jarring time-jumps were handled in the anime, that initially put a lot of people off. Although I say that... it is a shame that that extra material wasn't animated, because an issue like the believability of Kirito's relationship between Asuna would have been fixed by simply animating the short story Aria in the Starless Night properly. Also the story would have been infinitely better if told predominately through Kirito's internal monologue, similar to Kyon (in Haruhi). Would also help give viewers a much better insight to his thoughts. Because as it is now, I bet people will mistake even Shino (GGO) and Sortiliena (Alicizaton) as romantic interests and a part of Kirito's harem, if there is to be a 2nd season. (¬_¬) |
Master10KMay 24, 2013 7:16 PM
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| How many people who are complaining about the anime's pacing actually read the LNs? The entire series starts at the last boss basically, which would definitely feel confusing and anti-climactic for most viewers. I remember there was a lot of drama over the anime being in chronological order instead of the temporal SNAFU that the LNs are with short stories in seemingly random order and the end at the beginning... Personally, I think they did a reasonable job straightening things out enough to get the story on film. The timeline gaps, which do admittedly feel awkward, are there because the author left them blank in the source's timeline.. One of the justifications for rebooting the books (SAO: Progressive) is so that there are no large empty spaces left in the chronicles of the fastest brain in the world. And to make the author/publisher large quantities of mostly free money since more than 1/2 of the first volume was pure reprint. -_-;; Master_M2K said: Because as it is now, I bet people will mistake even Shino (GGO) and Sortiliena (Alicizaton) as romantic interests and a part of Kirito's harem, if there is to be a 2nd season. (¬_¬) Officially, Shino IS part of the harem. >.>;;; At least according to one of the short stories which is set AFTER the unfinished Alicization arc (so the author spoiled his own story.) |
deadman80May 25, 2013 2:07 AM
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| I just reached the point where I've watched all the shows that I've been interested in, so Sword Art Online was kinda a saving grace for me. I heard a lot of negativity about it so I was reluctant to try it at first. As with any show, there is always potential to be better; however, I enjoyed it coming from a strictly anime perspective. I don't follow the novels or anything else for most shows I watch, so I imagine the hardcore audience will disagree. But I found it entertaining, and that's all that matters to me. Unlike many shows I've watched recently, there was never really a point where I thought about dropping it or felt that I was losing interest. For the sake of discussion, I think the 3 things that would have made it better for me would have been: • More episodes, which would help with character development and the confusing time skips. The impact of some of the earlier characters didn't affect me as a viewer as much as it did the characters themselves. • Better music for the Aincrad Arc. There were some gems like Swordland but I found the latter half of the show to have better music. • A more interesting basis for ALfheim Online. Changing them to elf pixies and putting an emphasis on races kinda distracted from the feel of the show (and it's hard to take elf bosses seriously). Yea the pacing had faults, they left out a lot, and there were characters popping in and out, but I still enjoyed both halves. I'm glad Asuna didn't turn out to be a tropey tsundere and I liked that they introduced a new villain, though he wasn't as relatable as the first and he took Asuna's strongest point - her independence -away. It definitely could have been done better, but the same can be said of any other show these days. Adaptations always run into problems. |
ZobaJun 6, 2013 9:19 PM
| If you ask me the anime should have strayed from the LN's and just took the concept and characters. Also make it so the only arc was the Aincrad arc. -Make all the characters deeper and more complex, and develop their relationships with each other more. Make it so Kirito is less of a one man army. -Make it more mature and take out most of the fanservice. -Rewrite the dialogue and villains so that they seem more human and less cookie cutter. -Give it an original ending -Give Heathcliff more screen time and more character fleshing out. I know we like adaptions to be faithful but I think with the right director and the right writer they could have made this show something good. |
hyperknees91May 25, 2013 6:35 PM
hyperknees91 said: -Make it more mature and take out most of the fanservice. I was actually surprised by the absence of fanservice. Yea there was some bouncing in the fairy dance arc and an attempt at a harem, but I didn't really feel like it was distracting like some other shows. |
| Or we could just leave it be. The anime sold like hot bread. That's enough proof it needs no change. Thanks to it the LN is also selling more. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
MellowJello said: Forum set is brilliant. Easiest change: Remove the ALO arc. Extend SAO arc to 24 episodes. I agree with you. And get rid of his harem. That too. Maybe not the loli. Disclaimer: MellowJello is not a lolicon. Please get off my back FBI. "Harem" you so funny. |
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| I love the world SAO created, therefore I was extremely upset when it was put aside by the writer as a side-note. The writer of SAO is clearly creative enough to create a world people were interested in yet, there was no real effort put into developing the world after it was introduced. There were endless possibilities of things to explore: monsters, geography, weather, quests, civilizations, powers (more on this later) and so on. Instead of all the drama, we had a chance to see people in heavy dragon armor drinking mysterious liquids so they could fight a horde of undead hell-hounds to reach the crystal that was powering an evil overlord's plan to claim the land of his father. There is argument by Kirito in episode 5, where he tries to convince people that letting a boss rampage in a city was wrong. Unsurprisingly viewers are left in disappointment over the fact they could not punch Kirito for his stupidity. How could they sympathize with him, when we never even had a chance to see the world he was defending? The writer is basically the god, and with his or her pen has the opportunity to create any law. So its frustrating to see that one of the laws is, people can only fight with swords... Besides the obvious fact that this is entirely unacceptable in MMORPGs, it's also very lazy writing. You can tell that the author wants to make Kirito stand out, but to do so she decided to make everyone else seem bland, while avoiding the effort to make a truly unique skill. A good anime tries to explore the world it has created; SAO just throws its characters into a beautiful scenery. |
| "Reality is a story the minds tells itself. An artificial structure conjured into being by the calcium ion exchange of a million synaptic fringes" |
| Well they can fight with other weapons (like axes and spears it seems) but I dunno about bows and the like. I think it's funnier that dual wielding is a special skill in a game with only weapon skills. Seems like a rather limited game if you know what I mean. Then again the controls and actions would be the selling point so I guess it's ok. There is argument by Kirito in episode 5, where he tries to convince people that letting a boss rampage in a city was wrong. Well unfortunately the author created a shounen when people expected a seinen, so logic and using your brain is a negative thing for your enjoyment of this show. |
MantisShrimp said: I love the world SAO created, therefore I was extremely upset when it was put aside by the writer as a side-note. The writer of SAO is clearly creative enough to create a world people were interested in yet, there was no real effort put into developing the world after it was introduced. There were endless possibilities of things to explore: monsters, geography, weather, quests, civilizations, powers (more on this later) and so on. Instead of all the drama, we had a chance to see people in heavy dragon armor drinking mysterious liquids so they could fight a horde of undead hell-hounds to reach the crystal that was powering an evil overlord's plan to claim the land of his father. There is argument by Kirito in episode 5, where he tries to convince people that letting a boss rampage in a city was wrong. Unsurprisingly viewers are left in disappointment over the fact they could not punch Kirito for his stupidity. How could they sympathize with him, when we never even had a chance to see the world he was defending? The writer is basically the god, and with his or her pen has the opportunity to create any law. So its frustrating to see that one of the laws is, people can only fight with swords... Besides the obvious fact that this is entirely unacceptable in MMORPGs, it's also very lazy writing. You can tell that the author wants to make Kirito stand out, but to do so she decided to make everyone else seem bland, while avoiding the effort to make a truly unique skill. A good anime tries to explore the world it has created; SAO just throws its characters into a beautiful scenery. Indeed. The VMMO device was a nice idea to basically introduce a generic fantasy world, but unlike other author this world was never filled with life. hyperknees91 said: There is argument by Kirito in episode 5, where he tries to convince people that letting a boss rampage in a city was wrong. Well unfortunately the author created a shounen when people expected a seinen, so logic and using your brain is a negative thing for your enjoyment of this show. Yeah, because series like Magi, Hunter X Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist and One Piece don't feature amazing world-building, exploration and well-established political conflicts. Surely all Shounen in this genre are as subpar executed as SAO... A concept - even if it is somewhat novel - is just a concept, the execution is just as important. And here SAO fails in a spectacular way. |
NidhoeggrMay 27, 2013 7:37 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| I still don't see the need of change, it's probably because in Japan it sells, beats me. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Yeah, because series like Magi, Hunter X Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist and One Piece don't feature amazing world-building, exploration and well-established political conflicts. Surely all Shounen in this genre are as subpar executed as SAO... A concept - even if it is somewhat novel - is just a concept, the execution is just as important. And here SAO fails in a spectacular way. Well I just meant with certain logical choices (I mean in one piece's case, brook defies all logic at times haha). SAO doesn't do anything well and I'm not arguing against that..the one thing is does insanely poorly is creating any sort of believable character (the most believable is Suguha, sadly...so very sadly). So yeah questionable logical choices come up all the time in SAO. I can only think of it as well this is the type of shounen that really requires you just embrace it and not question it. Not saying all shounens are done the same way (hence why HxH kicks so much ass). But some certainly are (like the newly aired attack on titan). And Magi must be good if you put it next to those 3 woah. I still don't see the need of change, it's probably because in Japan it sells, beats me. Well it's more for personal preference. If you find the show entertaining with nothing you see needing change then I can't really argue against that. I mean plenty of my friends think Kirito is one of the best main characters ever, while I never really cared for the guy. Plenty of my friends tell me the LN's are better while I disagree. So yeah, it's not like the show actually "needs" to do anything different as obviously plenty of people like it. |
hyperknees91May 27, 2013 8:00 AM
| Well, Brook's body and powers are mostly and explained through his DF and comic physics, yet Oda always stays consistent with the comedic applications for his different and silly laws. Even in the braindead, over-the-top type of Shounen SAO falls short in series like JoJo's bizarre Adventure or Bastard!!, who can have really overpowered protagonists/villians, a plot that has a few gigantic holes, etc. The difference between them and SAO? They know it is stupid to have these tropes in the first place and deal with it in an ironic way. I just don't get what SAO wants to be, what the author envisioned it to be. Everytime I think about the metawriting and the intentions behind it I can only see tons of other titles who fared far better. Sure, it is his first work and he improved a lot (Accel World is miles better than this) and I give him credit for rewriting this old story, but it doesn't excuse the faults in this version. About Magi: Yeah, I am currently very impressed by the manga version of this title. I like world-building and exploration in action/adventure Shounen because it really suits the style of these genres and is a good way to implement (un-)common tropes in an interesting way. Magi is great in these areas and the story mentioned to be both fast-paced and of remarkable depth if you look at the rivals on the market. Another series where I think powerlevels, somewhat overpowered protagonists and a fantasy setting is Nanatsu no Taizai from the author of Kongou Banchou. At least the first 30 chapters show a lot of potential and if it contineus to sell so well I'm sure a lot of the people in this subforums will watch its adaption in a few years. |
NidhoeggrMay 27, 2013 8:11 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| It's mostly the way people speak, it makes me want to bait some. EDIT Tropes neither make or break, that's one of the rules of tropes. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: EDIT Tropes neither make or break, that's one of the rules of tropes. I never said anything against that. But concept development, stage setting and their execution are important parts of the writing process as well because only a good setting gives the author enough freedom to execute his tropes in the best possible way. The geography of OP is an excellent method to seperate different power tiers, political influence, fractions, etc. while still giving it a somewhat natural feel. Setting up a world like this is a skill in itself. This is my second mayor gripe against this franchise, along with the bad execution that made most tropes seem really bland and obvious. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| 'They know it is stupid to have these tropes in the first place and deal with it in an ironic way. ' Oh well. In any case, the problem with all that that those aren't even technicalities so we can all judge neutraly, making this useless, they did not break the willful suspension of disbelief either. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Yes that's very true (on the OP logic). See this is what makes the LN's even worse. They actually try give logic and psychology to the main character which makes it even more laughable and nonsensical. It basically shows that you're actually suppose to take the series seriously while at least with the anime, I never got that vibe. To me the most interesting thing about SAO is on what SAO wants to be. Like what makes it such a hit or so unique from other shounen's. And I think I've figured it out. I can't name another shounen where the main and female lead are both incredibly strong, attractive and centrally focused characters. I mean usually the main character is the underdog and the female lead is strong, or the other way around (sometimes the female lead is just plain useless). I guess that makes it appealing to a lot of people (as most gamers I talk to generally say, they want to play as someone cooler than they are). The only other series I remember with such over-powered protagonists was MAR (which was equally boring because of it). And even then, the main female lead wasn't very strong. |
hyperknees91May 27, 2013 8:35 AM
| It took itself damn serious in episodes 3 and 9-14 as well as a few others. But now that you mention it, the very strong focus on these two empty slates is indeed somewhat unique. Even in most other manga one the protagonists is shown to be weaker than the other. Still, as a gamer I'd never enjoy reading about OP characters when I never got the chance to see their growth. But then again, I imagine people who actually like to grind.. er, play MMos don't want to torture themselves any further in another medium. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| Huh, my tastes consist of an mc that just kicks ass, grind or not they gave me that. Too bad most anime lack OP mc's, and those that don't never touch my level 2 which is sadistically destroying the mc for the added effect to his future win. Lvl 3 happened only once. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| 1. Better character depth (good attitudes) 2. Enriching to the soul 3. Good music 4. Comedy which is very funny 5. Less fanservice (panty shots, naked) |
Nidhoeggr said: It took itself damn serious in episodes 3 and 9-14 as well as a few others. But now that you mention it, the very strong focus on these two empty slates is indeed somewhat unique. Even in most other manga one the protagonists is shown to be weaker than the other. Still, as a gamer I'd never enjoy reading about OP characters when I never got the chance to see their growth. But then again, I imagine people who actually like to grind.. er, play MMos don't want to torture themselves any further in another medium. Oh yeah well those episodes...yeah those are my least favorite episodes in the show obviously haha. And quite honestly I agree, it seems like a really bad idea. But I guess most people who watch this just don't care. Huh, my tastes consist of an mc that just kicks ass, grind or not they gave me that. Too bad most anime lack OP mc's, and those that don't never touch my level 2 which is sadistically destroying the mc for the added effect to his future win. Lvl 3 happened only once. Read more at http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=597027&show=80#j8SQ3cd2OSwegUHO.99 You must like kenshin (as you should). |
| It would have been a lot better if Asuna was saving Kirito from that butterfly guy :P. Imagine Kirito getting his tears licked ._. |
Debinux said: It would have been a lot better if Asuna was saving Kirito from that butterfly guy :P. Imagine Kirito getting his tears licked ._. Oh mahhh gawdddd 10/10 episode right there. |
| I don't agree that SOA was a disaster. It was a good anime, liked the characters and the fighting scenes, but I do agree that they should have made AOL and SOA 2 different seasons all together, making the SOA arc 25 episodes instead of 14. |
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| When I first read the LNs, I made my own possible ending to it: When they reach the 100th Floor, I actually thought that the game would make the strongest character the Last Boss, which would be Kirito turned really OP (strong enough to be worthy of the last boss), and everyone has to kill him because Kirito lost control of his avatar and would kill them instead. The ending I thought was Asuna being the person to kill Kirito. Just for the angst, you know? And because the creator of the game was a douchebag in the first place. |
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