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Tower of God not in the DB? [Please read the links in the first post]

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Jan 10, 2016 5:38 AM

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Tyrel said:
That's like saying they should allow RWBY just because of its popularity even though it's not an anime.


except y'know the site allows manwha so its not really the same thing at all & just comes down to weird pedantic baby shit
weeaboo is not a slur you fucking nerds
 
Jan 10, 2016 5:51 AM
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SacredBlood77 said:
Finally caught up with ToG this morning, ( took a few weeks ) and wanted it to be the first addition to my Manga list. I was surprised to find it wasn't turning up in the Manga search, so I hit google and found this thread.

And holy cow, for the love of god, what is the big deal about adding unpublished works anyways? If people want to add a an extremely well known Manhwa to their " personal " list, just let them. At the very least let them add it manually ( just being text with no link/information ).

This entire thread is laughable, iv'e never felt the need to call someone a Manga Nazi, but this is ludicrous.

Love this sites Anime list, but the sheer popularity of ToG should merit at least the name itself being added to the database so people can at least add it.


The site isn't your "personal" list. Only your list (and profile if you want to get technical). If you're going to use the site, you need to come to terms with the rules.

There's tons of novels I want to add, but guess what? There's rules and restrictions. I have to operate within the rules as well. Despite that, I've never once thought about complaining about it.

"It's so unfair! My novels! My self entitlement!"



Yeah, no.

Your whining would be justified if it was just webtoons with restrictions, but that's far from the case. Everything in the database has rules and restrictions.

Looks like you webtoon loving activists will be killing my boredom in 2016 as well.
 
Jan 10, 2016 10:10 AM

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Wizzy123 said:
SacredBlood77 said:
Finally caught up with ToG this morning, ( took a few weeks ) and wanted it to be the first addition to my Manga list. I was surprised to find it wasn't turning up in the Manga search, so I hit google and found this thread.

And holy cow, for the love of god, what is the big deal about adding unpublished works anyways? If people want to add a an extremely well known Manhwa to their " personal " list, just let them. At the very least let them add it manually ( just being text with no link/information ).

This entire thread is laughable, iv'e never felt the need to call someone a Manga Nazi, but this is ludicrous.

Love this sites Anime list, but the sheer popularity of ToG should merit at least the name itself being added to the database so people can at least add it.


The site isn't your "personal" list. Only your list (and profile if you want to get technical). If you're going to use the site, you need to come to terms with the rules.

There's tons of novels I want to add, but guess what? There's rules and restrictions. I have to operate within the rules as well. Despite that, I've never once thought about complaining about it.

"It's so unfair! My novels! My self entitlement!"



Yeah, no.

Your whining would be justified if it was just webtoons with restrictions, but that's far from the case. Everything in the database has rules and restrictions.

Looks like you webtoon loving activists will be killing my boredom in 2016 as well.
what a reply. i mean mods shouldn't be replying like that, what kind of response do you expect back? and when you don't like it anymore>time to lock thread... tyrel is an expert at that.
 
Jan 10, 2016 10:59 AM
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papsoshea said:
what a reply. i mean mods shouldn't be replying like that


How exactly should we reply then? Let a person down easy and pacify them with sweet words over the course of many replies about how they're being unreasonable? Sorry, not my M.O.

I don't think my reply was too harsh. It is very direct, though.

If I said something along the lines of "f*ck off and go swallow some batteries", then yeah, that would be seriously harsh and uncalled for. My reply is not.

papsoshea said:
what kind of response do you expect back


Don't care. I'm just having fun.
 
Jan 10, 2016 3:23 PM

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Why do moderators even reply? It’s not like they can make a real difference….
Can somebody who owns this site or can change things about this site reply to his thread for once?

I mean if we ignore the rules for one second, it’s not hard to see why this request is not so strange. I mean the Naver Webtoons app Andoid version is already used more than 10 million times. But not only is the popularity very high, the quality of the manhwa is also great not to mention authors who get there work published in this app get paid.

Why not let manhwa specifically only from this app enter the database? I mean we live in a time where everything is digitalized, this rule saying things have to be published on paper is dated.

Another possibility is to let people vote for a manhwa to get in the database (like 50K votes), If enough people vote for this it will not hurt your site to add it.

Both options will not strain your database because entries will be limited, plus other people can’t complain that they want their manhwa in the database too, because we are talking about a specific case because this app has lots of viewers. When you decide to add these manhwa I can guarantee more people will come to this site, because like I said these manhwa are very popular and this will eventually make a lot more money in ad’s and what not.

So someone pull that incredible large stick out of your ass and listen to your visitors for once…
Modified by h4ff, Jan 10, 2016 3:31 PM
 
Jan 10, 2016 4:37 PM

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h4ff: Xinil, the creator of this site, replied on this topic in the August's AMA thing. Basically, the current answer is "no": https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3gedyl/im_xinil_creator_and_lead_admin_of_myanimelist/ctxglnb

I think eventually digital manga will become such a big phenomenon that MAL owners won't be able to ignore it anymore and will have to at least lessen the restrictions somewhat. Like when 10% of all popular manga in Japan will be released in digital form only.
 
Jan 10, 2016 5:18 PM
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h4ff said:
Can somebody who owns this site or can change things about this site reply to his thread for once?


That someone already did, over 2 years ago. And for a more recent reply, you can check out kuchitsu's reddit link.
 
Jan 10, 2016 5:34 PM

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Thanks for your reply; i did not know the creator of this site had his own Reddit.
I will go spam this guy with all my problems:)!!

Anyways i hope that before they change those rules they will at least try to make a compromise and add the manhwa from this app.
 
Jan 10, 2016 11:17 PM
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Tyrel said:
That's like saying they should allow RWBY just because of its popularity even though it's not an anime.


RWBY was anime enough to be aired on Crunchyroll, not that that really proves a point, but it's still interesting.

And like I said you could at least let people add whatever they want ( maybe in another section of the list like " unrecognized series ", it could be in title only not needing it's own page on the website since you don't recognize them as anime/manga.

I can understand from a consistency stand point why you don't just accept any series without certain criteria being met, but from the point of view of someone who uses it as a personal list it seems bizarre not being able to add what ever we please, even if it's in title only.

Anyways iv'e gotten over it, it's your site to run, i'm just a grateful, albeit a little agitated, visitor. Have a good one.

Wizzy123 said:

There's tons of novels I want to add, but guess what? There's rules and restrictions. I have to operate within the rules as well. Despite that, I've never once thought about complaining about it.


Criticism is the easiest way for you to know what you need to fix or improve, your basically saying everyone's opinion is shit and you don't want to hear it. Which is fine, because I didn't exactly respond to this thread in a thought out or logical way either. But complaining about someone complaining isn't much better.

Thanks for the replies though, i'll be keeping to the anime side from now on, turns out Manga is a little too serious for me.
Modified by SacredBlood77, Jan 10, 2016 11:28 PM
 
Jan 10, 2016 11:21 PM

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This may sound stupid but why must something be published to be recognized and labeled as legitimate?
 
Jan 11, 2016 2:02 AM

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Because otherwise I could submit 500 different unpublished asian web comics of slightly increasing quality to the database, from a shiity MS Paint one made in 5 minutes to a very professional one like Tower of God. And then the database moderators would have a hell of a time trying to decide which ones are good enough to be included and which aren't. This is a classic problem that any database without clear rules has to deal with. If you don't have a good criteria for inclusion, you'll have to rely on intuition or subjective preferences or whatever. And it will be dirty.
 
Jan 11, 2016 2:23 AM

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disappointed they did that >:( and upset.
 
Jan 11, 2016 11:24 AM
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SacredBlood77 said:
your basically saying everyone's opinion is shit and you don't want to hear it.


I don't care too much for opinions on this topic anymore because I already know the deal. Almost everything that could have been said, has been said and nothing change. Nearly 3 years have gone by since this thread was created and even longer since this topic started elsewhere.

I wonder how many more years need to go by before it finally sinks in. I'll probably end up regurgitating a similar message 2-3 years from now to another guy coming back to this thread. Crazy stuff.

SacredBlood77 said:
Manga is a little too serious for me.


We be super super serious over here bruh

 
Feb 9, 2016 3:39 PM

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Fuchsia said:
This may sound stupid but why must something be published to be recognized and labeled as legitimate?

probably to reduce amount of manga/manhwa in mal , the database can't handle it.

 
Feb 9, 2016 3:50 PM

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Wouldn't it be possible to have a thread about big webcomics or something with a poll to vote for and if "Title A" is judged big enough by majority of a sufficient amount of people, a request can be made to a mod who would be the only one allowed to add the webcomic in question if he sees it fit of being added ?

There wouldn't be more than x amount of requests allowed per week/month to prevent the database to get overflown and the mod in question spammed with any random amateur work.
 
Feb 9, 2016 5:38 PM
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The database never worked based on popularity or community vote (thankfully lol), but with rules and something arbitrary as "an x number people approves this" isn't nearly objective, so don't even bother with such suggestions :P
 
Feb 28, 2016 9:42 PM

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Just wanted say I'd love it to have tower of god added.

Ps
probably wouldn't happen but hey if I don't speak out then less likely to be heard

Pss
and hopefully changed

psss
please change it!

also I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have exceptions if you had enough people vote on it. I mean if you were running a chinese restaurant and everyone wanted everyone wanted a Schnitzel, business opportunity.(quoting an old comment no offense mugi just found it funny)

but anyways an argument can be made either way so it doesn't really matter what we say or do because unless you've got the power, money or influence to change it you can just shut up and go back to your brainless zombie like life. (written text sarcasm)
 
Mar 2, 2016 6:13 PM

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I didn't even read this yet, I'm relatively new to anime and I was looking for a manga to read, and I was recommended this. Of course, the first place I came to was MAL to see what people think about it. But, for the second time since I joined, the site specifically excludes seemingly highly popular works based on extremely arbitrary characteristics, as if the admins were just trying to exclude whatever they're not fans of. It's a great site otherwise but this system is kind of an arbitrary mess and I have no idea why they STILL haven't changed it (I've seen people criticising it in threads that are years old). At least the admins' explanations aren't condescending or rude, even if I disagree with their logic.
 
Mar 2, 2016 10:39 PM

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I honestly really don't understand why it's a big deal. They have to draw the line somewhere. They set a scope of what's covered and they believe Tower of God falls outside of this scope for clearly stated reasons.

Adding Tower of God would mean changing the scope/guidelines. Doing this would mean adding whatever additional material would fall under those guidelines. It's naive to just complain that Tower of God should be added because it's popular.

What is arbitrary, are the uninformed attempts to dictate guidelines based ultimately on personal preference and convenience. I get upset because it's like some of you have no appreciation for how great MAL is for a FREE website and you think that it runs on an infinite supply of magic pixie dust.

Whether or not any of us disagree with the guidelines or how the admins interpret them, doesn't change the fact that having guidelines and someone to interpret them is necessary for MAL to even exist in the first place. And they have taken their time to join this thread and explain their decision. You may not agree with it, but you're not the admin, and the reasoning is sound enough to justify the decision.

Think about like scoring an anime. So no Tower of God? MAL can't be a perfect fit for everyone. Then give MAL 9/10, or 8/10. Maybe you can't call it perfect IYO, but still damn good.

And I LOVE The Tower of God. But I'd rather suffer the TINY inconvenience of it not being included in MAL than get angry with the people who created and maintain this site.
Modified by NeoVolt, Mar 2, 2016 10:54 PM
 
Mar 3, 2016 12:33 AM

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todiwan said:
the site specifically excludes seemingly highly popular works based on extremely arbitrary characteristics


Basing it around popularity would be far more arbitrary than the current system (not to mention harder to calculate).
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Apr 15, 2016 1:37 AM
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Well i just read the entire post and all of it replies and have to say that as some user has already said before that "is kinda fun to read it" so might as well just post this reply as a reminder that i've already read this.
 
Jun 25, 2016 12:58 AM

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Ah, I wanted to add it as my #100 manga/manhwa but what a shame.
 
Jul 5, 2016 12:08 AM

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THIS IS AN EDIT. THE LINKS TO THE PUBLISHED PROOF ARE BROKEN. GO TO MY LAST POST OF THIS THREAD FOR UPDATED PROOF ON WEBTOON BEING PUBLISHED.
-----------------
THIS IS A REPLY ON HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS SUBJECT AND THIS SUBJECT ALONE. I AM NOT BASHING Kineta DIRECTLY AND ASK FOR NO HARD FEELINGS AND I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO MAKE A FIGHT OF ANY SORT. HE IS SIMPLY REPEATING OF WHAT HE WAS TOLD FROM MAL OFFICIALS.

lastly, i do not ask for replies (but am open to them). again, i am just speaking my mind.

Kineta said:

Naver may meet your definition of a digital publisher, but we do not allow digital publishers that are not owned by a reputable publishing company into the database.


but that only reaches the MAL definition of a published work; it's not the overall rule of what is a published work or not. a published work is a published work.


2:36 - 3:39
this as official as it gets. it is published by a legit company, which has been around for at least 10yrs. the only explainable TL;DR reason to MAL's rule is that "It's not on paper so it's not official."
what????

Manhwa is not our focus. Manhwa is an off-shoot that we debated on striking from the database when we removed OEL. My stats are a few years old, but at that time <5% of the DB were manhwa entries and <10% of these entries had more than 10 users. This means <0.5% of the database were manhwa entries that were even read by MAL users.


maybe because MAL barely lets webtoon on here in the first place. then they turn around and say "See, it's not even entered here a lot"?

don't you see? this sounds almost hypocritical.

and i'm seeing the words "webtoon" and "manhwa" get thrown around as the same thing. while this is fine if it's talk around fans, there is a big difference if we are talking by actual official means.

manhwa is the actual name of what MAL wants, published paper books. webtoon are (korean) stories that are written on the internet. while the korean term for comics is manhwa, and webtoon are technically that, it's official name is webtoon.

here is a small chat that discusses lightly on what i said (3:41 - 4:33).

We considered adjusting our rules for Naver when this situation first began with Noblesse. But we decided not to then and we have not been given a good enough reason to change that decision. High quality works will be published by reputable publishing companies and then they will be added to the database.


that makes absolutely no sense and is extremely and ignorantly biased. if MAL has already admitted to not knowing a lot about webtoon in the first place, what makes them think they have the right to make this judgement?

by adding some and not adding some - this pick-pocketing makes the webtoon section look even more extremely awkward than it already is.

If Tower of God is as good as everyone says, then it will eventually be published as well. The other works that Naver hosts as "webtoons"? I'm not sure.


tower of god is even more popular than noblesse, said by the founder of line webtoon himself.


- Naver is not a reputable publishing company in the manhwa industry. Naver is a search portal.



and i am trying to explain that this is just not true.

more proof:



and that's not even to mention that line webtoon alone has been translated in at least 6 languages worldwide. and that can happen with unpublished comics?

want to know where this proof is? read it right here. more than enough info is in this book, and it won't cost anyone anything but their time to read it through.



Naver is a search portal.


we know this. and here's some food for thought. if naver is simply a search engine, and it has been confirmed that they have a webtoon section of their company, and you insist that they aren't publishers, what are they then?

- While Naver may meet your definition


you should have said that in the first place instead of talking about how official online published works aren't official published works. it would be easier to tell them that "We don't do it." short and sweet. shuts them down.

and didn't you just say that of a digital publisher, "we do not allow digital-only publishers' works into our database"? you just admitted that naver is a publisher.

but, again, how on earth does this not qualify as a legit company (please look at this all the way up to 40:22)? it's at an official comic expo, you can see published works, and line webtoon's brand is clearly in the background. google is a search engine and yet they have a book publishing service that publishes books online; would you call that non-reputable?


- This largely has to do with the fact that manhwa is not the focus of our database and we have no way to determine Naver's credibility.


no, MAL. you just don't care to bother to look up their credibility. evidence of naver's (as well as daum's) credibility can easily be found on the internet and can go back at least as far as 2012.

say it. just say that you don't care. there is literally no other reason for these ridiculous excuses and this apparent distasteful arrogance towards webtoon.


- Once these works are published by reputable companies, they will be added to the database.


if you are so hesitant about webtoon, then don't add them on the site at all. this awkward jumble of adding webtoon due to very lose, unreasonable and ignorant (as well as just plain wrong...) rules makes it much too confusing. the reason why questions like this are being asked is because webtoon are added. add them or do not. it just ends up as confusing. if you want to avoid future chaos, get rid of any inkling that could create it.
you don't know about webtoon and its world as well as the fans. you have no idea how extremely awkward it is to have noblesse on the list, but not ToG. it's like adding naruto to the anime section, but not bleach. and then you have the nerve to get surprised at how many people are asking it to be added.

however MAL adds asian media, so this would make no sense to take them off. and as i have proven webtoon publishing companies such as line (which is COMPLETELY different from naver, it is only powered by it, it is created and owned by a COMPLETELY different person), daum, lezhin comics, etc are not only officially in the manhwa industry but are dominating it by miles.

I can sympathise with users wanting to add these webtoons to their lists - especially because scanlation groups they follow are releasing these works. But other users want to add doujinshi released at Comiket and other users want to add OEL and other users want to add Avatar. We need to draw a line somewhere so that we can aim for a comprehensive database in the specific area we decide to focus on.


DJs are spin offs of canon work! those can easily be wisked to fan wikias. those are not important to the actual source. are you trying to say that needless spinoffs are on the same qualification as comics that are simply published online?

MAL, you are wrong. you don't know what you're teaching your mods. it's extremely obvious you know next to nothing about webtoon. as such these rules you have made are very ignorant since you are relying on the little knowledge you barely have. naver is wholly, totally, utterly, and without a doubt the publishing company you desire for them to be so badly, and more. this not only stands for naver but other webtoon publishers as well. from what i've been seeing these pages is that the mods are cemented in the idea that naver (and others) doesn't follow the guidelines and the fans are ordering for them to be changed. but from my rock-solid proof above naver (and the like) does follow the rules. they simply need to be adjusted to publicly show that MAL now fully acknowledges webtoon.
Modified by TomDay, Oct 20, 2018 3:19 PM
 
Jul 5, 2016 3:25 PM

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IntroverTurtle said:
If I get my Korean friend to draw with crayon on a piece of paper and upload it online once a month for 6 months then he'd be allowed according to your rules. The time put into the work should not determine whether it gets in or not.


as if the crayon matters.
i guess if kishimoto from now on decided to draw with coloring pencils and crayons, it wouldn't be considered published work.

Monsterguy said:


I understand that many of you are working with the whole databease, along with having a reall life (heck I was a moderator from comic "Tower of God" on mangahelpers a short while ago). So I understand, you might not know about all the details about this comic (we are all human for god sake), but I as a hardcode fan from "Tower of God" can help you here. So if you have any questions, I want to help many fans of this amaizing comic "Tower of God", to have their own place in myanimelist databese as well !!!



exactly what i was going to suggest. since the MAL board has such small knowledge of the webtoon world, why not make a mass announcement to all the webtoon clubs in the announcement forums?

of course, not any fan is going to contribute. the fans who simply like webtoon and nothing else wouldn't be chosen. the ones who can provide real content would be chosen. this would be done by an extensive "interviewing" test on how they would contribute to the webtoon section, and how. after around at least 15 or so people are recruited, then they would have their own official club discussing how the webtoon section is to be designed and how it would work. naturally, the would involve people who include official, clear, concise links a webtoon (ToG for example, since it's on this thread), then provide the company name, can do extensive research, etc.

my first suggestion is to change published webtoon from being labeled as "manhwa" and changed to webtoon, since that is the officially trademarked name of them.

secondly, how long has manhwa been published here? three years? AT LEAST make a manhwa section, instead of making fans having to go to the manga discussion.

Wizzy123 said:

The site isn't your "personal" list


"myanimelist"
Modified by TomDay, Oct 20, 2018 3:21 PM
 
Jul 5, 2016 3:44 PM

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TomDay said:

That's quite the nice post you've got there, wondering how the mods will respond to it.
 
Jul 5, 2016 3:57 PM

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@KamSung

i already said that i was speaking my mind and wanted no hard feelings. if they take this personal i did all i could to say that i didn't mean to. this isn't directed at the mods, they didn't make the rules.
 
Jul 5, 2016 10:09 PM

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my final comment on the matter is that i have nothing against MAL's board in general and it little matters to me whether webtoon makes it to the database. it's just that their reasons are...unreasonable for not allowing it inside. they have said they would let webtoon (well, really manhwa) inside the datebase, but barely anything has been done to it. and when fans want to contribute, they are bitten and spat at about how they're doing things wrong.

so what now? the manhwa/webtoon section is going to be frozen (or slower than a snail) forever? by hardly letting anything get permitted, you're indirectly making an ice age of the manhwa section!

by that fact alone the rules would have to be changed. but as i have proven they don't need to be changed much, just adjusted. since MAL doesn't share what work the site is at for its community i can't pretend to know, but i'm not asking for (nor are the fans, i believe) an instant or even speedy work on the rules. what i think they want is just a promise that it will be looked into and changed/adjusted in time. if you are stuck with this webtoon problem you might as well work it out right.

by adding webtoon would not mean adding an Ark of different things, since it fits in the rules and guidelines. just please learn more about webtoon how the are published and you will see how it does. there are dozens of fans on here who would love to and are willing contribute links and information as well. yes, it may meaning stepping down from higher ground, but since the main board doesn't know much about it, there is very little choice on the matter.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 5, 2016 10:37 PM
 
Jul 6, 2016 2:06 AM
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SIU said he signed a Book contract and he's working on turning it into a Book/Tankoban. So it's bound to end up in MAL database eventually lol.
 
Jul 6, 2016 5:19 PM

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Laugasts said:
SIU said he signed a Book contract and he's working on turning it into a Book/Tankoban. So it's bound to end up in MAL database eventually lol.


yes, it will happen eventually. the stubbornness of MAL will indeed bite them (and hard) in the end. even when they get published in paper form, there will be TONS of them to add since so many of them are so successful so fast.

i'm trying to save them the trouble by warning them now but looks like they aren't listening...line webtoon will eventually work to be on the same level as jump with the amount of potential it has.

but that's not the main problem. the mods claim that line/naver doesn't publish webtoon when they do. it has very little to do with ToG coming out with a book or not.

KingRequiem said:
Wouldn't it be possible to have a thread about big webcomics or something with a poll to vote for and if "Title A" is judged big enough by majority of a sufficient amount of people, a request can be made to a mod who would be the only one allowed to add the webcomic in question if he sees it fit of being added ?

There wouldn't be more than x amount of requests allowed per week/month to prevent the database to get overflown and the mod in question spammed with any random amateur work.


nah let's ignore it.

because by doing it will automatically make MAL look like they know next to nothing about the definition of "webtoon" (let alone naver). we can't have that.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 7, 2016 8:40 PM
 
Jul 7, 2016 6:36 PM

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hello everyone, just dropping by to add more proof.

on the bakaupdates site, naver is said to be a publisher. as of 2016 their published works are below. under the "publications" list, line webtoon is clearly seen after it. it was last updated this june.

(https://www.mangaupdates.com/publishers.html?id=588)
--------
elixiadragmire, a line webtoon user, says:
.... Text in comments is hyphenated ..... WHY?! No notifications for readers, I could go on. All of these are big problems for me and why it find it hard to consider having them as a publisher.

(http://forums.tapastic.com/t/line-webtoon-opinions/2578/13)
---------
from the terms of service page of line webtoon:

(http://m.webtoons.com/en/terms)
...NAVER may at any time amend these Terms of Use by publishing amended version on LINE Webtoon Website and/ or LINE Webtoon App.

You may not reproduce, distribute, rent....publish, edit, adapt, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise use Digital Content except as expressly authorized by this Agreement. NAVER reserves all rights not expressly granted in this Agreement.


this means that naver can publish anything that they chose.
---------
on the korean webtoon wiki (please for all our sake do not use that limp, dead excuse that "anyone can edit", i have provided more than enough proof that they are publishers anyway):

(http://koreanwebtoons.wikia.com/wiki/Naver)

2) Best Challenge is the cream of the crop of the Challenge Manhwa webtoons. These people have been selected by Naver and promoted depending on their popularity and quality of their webtoons. Unlike the Webtoon tier, the webtoon creators can also publish their webtoon elsewhere to promote their creations. An example of this is Holy Alice. That webtoon was published at Naver, Daum, and Tapastic. If a Best Challenge webtoon has been extremely popular and has great quality, Naver will promote them to Webtoon.


3) Webtoon is the best of the best. This is where the artists actually get paid. They become full-time professional webtoon artists and they are paid for their work. The more popular webtoons are paid more. When a best challenge webtoon moves up to this category, they have to start all over and reboot the webtoon. To improve the quality of the webtoon, all the artists are required to revise their work. Once the webtoon creators reach this tier, they sign a contract giving Naver exclusive publishing rights for their webtoon.Competition to get into this tier is very difficult.

--------
they (along with a lot of others) are also featured on the "webtoon publishers" section:
(http://koreanwebtoons.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Webtoon_Publishers)
--------
line's proof of publishing is right in the second title, lol.

(http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/line-webtoon-launches-challenge-league-a-new-discovery-feature-for-webcomic-creators-and-aspiring-artists-283316621.html)

in the first paragraph:
----------
(http://usabilitygeek.com/10th-dimension-boys-webtoons/)
Originating in South Korea 10 years ago, webtoons have rapidly gained popularity, replacing the previously vague term of ‘internet comics’. One of the leading publishers of webtoons, NAVER Corporation, which is also Korea’s top search portal, currently enjoys more than 6.2 million daily visitors, totalling and astonishing 29 billion hits since the launch of its online platform back in 2006.

----------
and here:

(http://www.line-stickers.com/naver-appstore-webtoon-special/)
Name (LINE Sticker) : Naver Appstore: Webtoon Special

Paid/Free : Free

Status : Temporary

Link : line://shop/detail/2848

Publisher : NAVER

Copyright : Copyright © NAVER Corporation


so yeah, not only they are a publisher they are definitely reputable. now THIS post, i ask for the mods' attention.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 8, 2016 4:05 PM
 
Jul 8, 2016 12:01 AM

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You know the majority of those things you cite as evidence aren't describing them as a publisher at all, right? Like the terms of service one is saying that they can edit their terms of service at any time and that people may not copy the works on Naver to other sites.

and that last one is saying they are the publisher of those stickers...

And there go all your primary sources...
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Jul 8, 2016 1:40 AM
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kuuderes_shadow said:
and that last one is saying they are the publisher of those stickers...




"Here guy's, we're super legit because we made stickers!" Hilarious.

@TomDay: Congrats, you've completely ignored years of conclusions and successfully regurgitated the same argument, that obviously isn't going anywhere.

Still waiting (for almost half a decade now) for the webtoon fanatics fans to provide sources of physically published books of these amazing webtoon works but no, that's too high a hurdle.
 
Jul 8, 2016 11:59 AM

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kuuderes_shadow said:
You know the majority of those things you cite as evidence aren't describing them as a publisher at all, right?


yeah, let's ignore bakaupdates just to say "lol stickers"

and that last one is saying they are the publisher of those stickers...

And there go all your primary sources...


yeah because stickers! that means...yeah that automatically means they aren't legit!

you know disney? that they sell books, toys, merchandise, bedding, and the like? let's laugh at them and call them illegitmate because they sell stickers!

even if this point means nothing, it's literally the only point you can point out.

Wizzy123 said:

Congrats, you've completely ignored years of conclusions and successfully regurgitated the same argument, that obviously isn't going anywhere.


you can see that i've ignored them? that's nice, because they need to be ignored. because MAL's points about naver is blatantly ignorant and 100% wrong.

you want to know why it "isn't going anywhere"? it's MAL's fault. it refuses to admit that webtoon are just as much as a legitimately published medium as any other book comic. there is nothing on the webtoon fans' part that is tiring. it's MAL.

and can you say anything of the book scans THAT ARE ABOUT KOREA ITSELF and it clearly says that webtoon are published by line, daum, and lezhin comics? i'd love to see how this means they aren't publishers. because they are.



Still waiting (for almost half a decade now) for the webtoon fanatics fans to provide sources of physically published books of these amazing webtoon works but no, that's too high a hurdle.


MAL doesn't ask for book versions. it asks for an official publishing company.

(http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141104)

c. Manhwa, Manhua:
professionally published comics made in Korea or China for their respective markets.


see that word? "professionally" published? in my scans above, that word is used for webtoon authors as well.

even if MAL is right on naver not being a publishing company (which they aren't), even if all the links i provided are false (which they aren't), they are still wrong when they claim that naver isn't even a notable company in the manhwa industry.

how on earth can one make a billion+ dollar business on un-published comics, i wonder? how can many of them be adapted into TV dramas and movies if they weren't published? how can an industry relying on un-published comics have money counted by the KT Economic Research (find out about them here and here)? how can an industry relying on un-published comics bring THE ONE AND ONLY STAN LEE MULTIPLE TIMES to their page?

(read more on stan lee here and go all the way down: http://www.webtoons.com/en/about)

laugh at the stickers all you want. what can you say about this?????

or just look at it here:


and this?????
look at it here:


and this?

5:40 - 6:18

*pay special attention to 5:56 - 6:04*

also look at 7:18 - 7:26

he literally says the SAME THING i (and many others) have been saying. you want to know why? because we are right and MAL is wrong. webtoons are officially published online. MAL is wrong.

i'm the one that should be laughing.

MAL is still stubbornly sticking to these dead as well as ignorant rules about webtoon even when people have proved them wrong multiple times.

"Naver isn't a publishing company"
wrong.
"Naver isn't even important in the manhwa industry"
you couldn't have been more wrong even if you tried.
"Naver is only a search portal and is therefore unable to publish comics"
.....................
"...We don't care about webtoon?"
ah, there's the answer we're all looking for folks. because it sure as heck looks like it.
--------
@ironace
@kamerl2
@Serhiyko
@R3C
@KamSung

you no longer have to face the mods and how much naver doesn't have publishing rights to their own stuff (as if that makes sense). just provide this proof to every problem someone may want to approach you with. there is nothing wrong with MAL's rules on their database. but they are wrong on how they view them with webtoon.
Modified by TomDay, Oct 20, 2018 3:25 PM
 
Jul 8, 2016 1:34 PM
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TomDay said:
webtoons are officially published online


That right there is the probably the biggest issue of all. We don't even allow certain manga titles and web novels into the database unless they have plans for physical release. So you can't expect webtoons to be an exception, especially when this is not a webtoon/webcomic database.

You quoted the guidelines but didn't get the meaning behind "professionally published comics". There's a reason I said physically published books.

When manga/books are published, it's normally published in the print. These days it can mean both print and online, but what MAL wants from a publisher is physical releases. There's only a few exceptions for certain publishers and light novel labels (since this website is mainly for Japanese releases).
 
Jul 8, 2016 5:29 PM

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Wizzy123 said:


That right there is the probably the biggest issue of all. We don't even allow certain manga titles and web novels into the database unless they have plans for physical release.


the problems here are
1. it is not 2012. MAL did not allow webtoon/comics back then.

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=515949&show=0#post2

I can't find a particular anime/manga entry on MAL.
First of all, make sure the entry meets the Database Guidelines. Foreign productions (e.g. Avatar, Original English Language "manga") and Korean webcomics are not allowed.


as of currently it says

(http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141104)

c. Manhwa, Manhua:
professionally published comics made in Korea or China for their respective markets.


now, unless they mean "respective" as in number count/chronologically ("the train had 12 people the front and 6 in the back respectively", "he ate and left the room respectively"), "respectively" is by how that country views their own medium.

how webcomic and webtoon are done in their respective markets is being published online. unless it is a pirated site, wherever they are readable they are published .

2. MAL hardly knows a thing about webtoon/comics.

So you can't expect webtoons to be an exception


they are tho.

(http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141104)

1. Only manga published by reputable publishing companies will be admitted to the manga database, with the following exceptions:


webtoon/comic (manhwa/hua) are right under that list. if there is an exception for manhwa/hua then there would have to be an exception for how they are published as well. it only makes sense.

especially when this is not a webtoon/webcomic database.


but it is for manhwa/hua.

(http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=272195)

our anime guidelines specifically restrict any animated media that is not Japanese/Korean/Chinese and FAQs specifically state Avatar is not allowed.


i'm not stupid. i know this is mainly animanga. however this still does not excuse MAL being almost completely ignorant of any genres that aren't. they promised to not only focus on japan (IT IS OK IF IT IS MAINLY FOCUSED ON, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE WEBTOON/COMIC FANS ARE SAYING) but korea and china as well.

it's utterly ridiculous to expect for the comic industry IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES to be the same as japan. japan is the #1 comic country. japan is obsessed with booked comics. i know the reason why korea isn't (and it is VERY important).
if MAL is actually honest and continues to say they want j/c/k media, then they would know the history of webtoon and why exactly they are published online (book version is either secondary or optional). but they don't. instead they spout nonsense about how naver (and such) isn't a publisher and demand two whole different cultures to be the same as one.

You quoted the guidelines but didn't get the meaning behind "professionally published comics". There's a reason I said physically published books.

When manga/books are published, it's normally published in the print. These days it can mean both print and online, but what MAL wants from a publisher is physical releases. There's only a few exceptions for certain publishers and light novel labels (since this website is mainly for Japanese releases).


again:

1. the "in their respective markets" point still stands
2. MAL is illogical to expect china and korea to be just like japan
3. it does not change the fact (yes, FACT) that they are still woefully wrong about naver. they wrote it irrelevant on the following reasons:
a. "It's a search engine"
b. "It's not reputable in the manhwa industry"
c. "There's no way to check its legitimacy"
d. "It doesn't publish comics"

a is not wrong by itself, but the reasoning of deeming naver irrelevant is by its (ridiculous) connection of point d. therefore, all of MAL's points are wrong in all accounts.

this is because (and many people have said it before me) MAL has very small knowledge of webtoon. you cannot judge a webtoon/comic publishing company irrelevant due to (a it's not published like how japanese comics are and (b therefore its stories are not only irrelevant but "unpublished". my initial entry into this thread was less about webtoon/comic coming to MAL and more about they were wrong about their points about naver. therefore all of my points about naver still stands.

the very fact of you saying "When manga/books are published, it's normally published in the print" means already that MAL wants other cultured countries to be the same as japan and they ignore otherwise. chinese/korean stories are not manga. stop treating them as so.

i admit i was wrong about one thing. if you claim "published works" are book only and not published in the essence of the word and this turns out to be true, then MAL does indeed need to change its rules. the rules are in high favor for japanese products. while nothing is wrong with this, they favor next to nothing in the international products they said they'd do. it's highly biased and wholly ignorant on chinese and korean culture.

which is a hilarious irony, since this site promotes international togetherness (TRIPLE, at that).

you saw the man sit there (if you even looked at the vid) and say there was no difference in paper publishing and online publishing. he's a korean native AND an artist in the manhwa industry; i'm pretty goshdang sure that he's trustworthy. you know what he pointed out the difference between paper and web stories was? the reading. that's it.

bakaupdates lists webtoon portals as publishers.
the authors of their own work say that they are published.
official comic sites list them as publishers.
THE OWN OFFICIAL WEBTOON SITES list theirselves as publishers.
MAL? they're actually making their own site even more stagnant and befuddling by confusing lines that aren't even there to begin with.

if MAL is really dedicated to korean (and chinese) culture as well as japanese, they need to wake the heck up that they are not treating it fairly. only THEY make up this non-existent line of paper and web publishing. everyone else? they see publishing as publishing. and like i said, even if they do pay attention to different cultures (which they most likely don't) they sure as HECK don't respect them. they have no right to judge a genre they know next to nothing about. they need the fans for this one, whether they like it or not. these hypocritical rules need to stop.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 9, 2016 9:21 PM
 
Jul 8, 2016 9:47 PM
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Again, almost everything you brought up are regurgitated arguments that have had multiple conclusions already. That's why I said this isn't going anywhere. If there was going to be change, it would have happened years ago when these discussions were in their prime.

As far as staff is concerned, this matter is settled. If you saw our queue, you would understand that these webtoons are the least of our concerns. We're already super busy just handling the current load. The reality is you'll never see Avatar in the database, and you'll never see every webtoon in existence on MAL.

Hypothetically, even if MAL acknowledged Naver as a publisher, the current situation wouldn't change much. Unless Naver started publishing these webtoons in print, they still wouldn't be accepted into the database.
 
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TomDay said:
kuuderes_shadow said:
You know the majority of those things you cite as evidence aren't describing them as a publisher at all, right?


yeah, let's ignore bakaupdates just to say "lol stickers"

and that last one is saying they are the publisher of those stickers...

And there go all your primary sources...


yeah because stickers! that means...yeah that automatically means they aren't legit!

you know disney? that they sell books, toys, merchandise, bedding, and the like? let's laugh at them and call them illegitmate because they sell stickers!

even if this point means nothing, it's literally the only point you can point out.


I responded to every one of your primary sources - ie. those where your source was Naver itself rather than someone else talking about Naver. And yes, I did chose those over a fanmade listing site that, at the end of the day, chooses what it wants to count as a publisher and what it wants to not count.
There are a lot of publishing labels listed as light novel labels on lndb.info but which are not treated as such on MAL. Given that lndb actually uses a single relatively consistent method for determining whether or not something is a light novel label I would actually give that more credibility than a site like bakaupdates. But yet I don't go around claiming that because the label is listed on lndb that it should be treated as such on MAL...

If anything, bakaupdates is more arbitrary than MAL is.

With regards to the stickers thing, it was you that tried to use them publishing those stickers as a reason for including their webcomics in the database. I never once argued that publishers of stickers could not be publishers of webcomics, as your little straw man implies. I was saying, as I'm sure you're actually aware, that publishing stickers is utterly irrelevant to whether or not they should be counted as a publisher on MAL.
Modified by kuuderes_shadow, Jul 8, 2016 11:59 PM
Weekly light novel releases (from 20/10/2014)
Bestselling light novel volumes of the year/all time* (and more in the same club).
*that there is data for

There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
 
Jul 10, 2016 12:23 PM

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SFLR everyone, wasn't really on here yesterday as i usually was.
------
Wizzy123 said:
Again, almost everything you brought up are regurgitated arguments that have had multiple conclusions already.


so that means what? they don't mean anything? so repeated truth eventually turns into untruths?

That's why I said this isn't going anywhere.


because MAL refuses to admit their own fault with their rules.

If there was going to be change, it would have happened years ago when these discussions were in their prime.


that is, once again, because MAL refuses to redo rules that are more than 6yrs old.

and no, that is not necessarily true. this thread was made in '13, before line even came to english internet. and i safely assume that many other threads before were much before '13. line came out a year afterwards, but it wasn't until last year that they said they were working hard for 2016.

thus summoning the articles of this year. they all talk of line, and how much it brings comics to a new level. there are at least 5 articles in the span of two months that talk of this.

thus, proving MAL's little knowledge of webtoon/comic (ESPECIALLY toons) if they think it's at the same level it was before '14. they cannot keep it sweeping aside as if it's a sidenote or a small fanbase of korea/china. again, it is fine if MAL doesn't know about it since they are mainly animanga, but it is not when they don't know about it and then proceed to not care about it, after they said they would.

they need a specific team of people who know about things that they don't. i see no problem in this.

As far as staff is concerned, this matter is settled.


that would make sense if only they didn't say they would treat korea/china with the least bit of respect. but they did. and they don't. that's the main problem.

If you saw our queue, you would understand that these webtoons are the least of our concerns. We're already super busy just handling the current load.


i can only speak for myself when i say i understand that. and that is exactly why i proposed more than three times for MAL to reach out and stop hogging all the burden. no-one is telling you to do all the work, dude. there are plenty of people here willing to volunteer for the things they want to contribute to the site they visit so often.

The reality is you'll never see Avatar in the database


maybe because the rules are not US supported???????

and you'll never see every webtoon in existence on MAL.


well that's a first. i didn't know that the most requested webtoon on MAL was all webtoons in history.

and i already said, i couldn't care less whether it is or not by itself, but MAL made a promise, and they should stick with that promise. whether korea/china made webtoons or published stories about the biology of feet, it is their job to add korean/chinese works, as they said.

again, if it is too much work (which it probably is in every sense of the word), would it be too much trouble to make an announcement in the forums for volunteers? because MAL did with the writers and that got off pretty well. i severely doubt that people won't volunteer for webtoon/comic as well.

if work is the problem, then at least say that instead of ignoring people who ask for korean/chinese works as MAL said they would add.

Hypothetically, even if MAL acknowledged Naver as a publisher, the current situation wouldn't change much. Unless Naver started publishing these webtoons in print, they still wouldn't be accepted into the database.


then i guess disney isn't a publisher either since a webtoon of star wars was done.

and as i said before, as soon as MAL stops thinking korea and china acts like japan, maybe things would go easier. webtoon/comics aren't mainly physical in korea and china because no-one cares about books over there. korea's comic book industry is nothing short of terrible, because of the rules to avoid getting censored and just because it's no where near of becoming close as successful as webtoon, a literal hundred billion dollar business. in china, comic book selling is even worse.

ok then, so tough luck. it doesn't matter about the industry in china and in korea. if it's not physical then it's not getting added.
again, no webtoon/comic would care if MAL didn't add webtoon/comic if they didn't say they would add korean/chinese works. by sticking to this (very) japanese friendly guideline, next to no webtoon/comic will get added.

if MAL doesn't know about the comic industry over there, they should. if they do know but just don't care, they still should due to their promise. by saying "no webtoon/comic will be added unless they are physical" is the same as reversing it and saying manga doesn't matter unless it's webcomic'd. but no-one cares about webcomics nearly as much as books, and the same vice versa in korea/china. as i said before, by acknowledging korea and china, they must acknowledge how they work. otherwise they're not keeping their word.

TL;DR: MAL needs to keep up with what they say.

oh and one more thing, was i right about that "respective markets" thing? or was it just the numbered/chronological way?
Modified by TomDay, Jul 14, 2016 10:50 AM
 
Jul 10, 2016 6:55 PM
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TomDay said:
no-one cares about books over there.




W-well that's too bad.

TomDay said:
if MAL doesn't know about the comic industry over there, they should.


We know enough that certain webtoons can and have been published in print before. They're all in the database. If all webtoons were strictly online, there's a strong possibility they would have been completely removed along with Original Foreign Language works and Original English Language works.

TomDay said:
TL;DR: MAL needs to keep up with what they say.


If you're referring to the guidelines, we have been consistent with them. Though I think they could be a little more transparent in certain areas since every time I say "physically published", people obviously get question marks above their heads. Though that's why I'm here (in this thread) to make up for that lack of transparency.
 
Jul 11, 2016 7:20 PM

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wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait WAIT!!!

i haven't read any replies yet, and i think i won't need to much anymore. my apologies, i will do it in a while.

but a few minutes ago i found this link: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=15191

is this enough for MAL to recognize naver as publishers now?
 
Jul 11, 2016 11:15 PM
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TomDay said:

is this enough for MAL to recognize naver as publishers now?


After all the replies in this thread.... after reading Kuudere's recent reply to you and you're seriously asking that?
 
Jul 14, 2016 1:23 AM

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ok, i haven't been on here a while, and if you checked my profile you could see that this was true; i wasn't avoiding anyone. you'd all better appreciate this, i'm losing major sleep over this! (i can't believe this hasn't been pushed to another page already....)
--------
kuuderes_shadow said:

I responded to every one of your primary sources - ie. those where your source was Naver itself rather than someone else talking about Naver. And yes, I did chose those over a fanmade listing site that, at the end of the day, chooses what it wants to count as a publisher and what it wants to not count.


again, proof that naver publishes was given beforehand, so by even denying that it still doesn't really mean anything. i said this before.
and by using that excuse of it being fanmade basically rules out any fan wikia; they aren't actually official, but they pretty much stick to the truth. find anything in a fan wikia, 9/10 you'll find it officially. they're fans, not liars.

but i'm dropping this subject. it's too leading off about the defense of fan wikia.
There are a lot of publishing labels listed as light novel labels on lndb.info but which are not treated as such on MAL. Given that lndb actually uses a single relatively consistent method for determining whether or not something is a light novel label I would actually give that more credibility than a site like bakaupdates. But yet I don't go around claiming that because the label is listed on lndb that it should be treated as such on MAL...


...indb? what? i don't understand.

If anything, bakaupdates is more arbitrary than MAL is.


it sure as heck gives even more links and sources than MAL.

With regards to the stickers thing, it was you that tried to use them publishing those stickers as a reason for including their webcomics in the database. I never once argued that publishers of stickers could not be publishers of webcomics, as your little straw man implies. I was saying, as I'm sure you're actually aware, that publishing stickers is utterly irrelevant to whether or not they should be counted as a publisher on MAL.

a publisher is a publisher. they published that as well as webtoons.
and, again, ripping out the stickers, ripping out the fan wikias, there is still video proof and book scans. ok, forget the stickers. that's not my point. my point is that with or without them there is still proof.

Wizzy123 said:



W-well that's too bad.


and THAT is what i'm talking about when i talk about MAL's disregard of the culture of webtoon/comics. that right there.

We know enough that certain webtoons can and have been published in print before. They're all in the database. If all webtoons were strictly online, there's a strong possibility they would have been completely removed along with Original Foreign Language works and Original English Language works.


those aren't even close to half of the webtoons online.

and i never said "strictly", you did. i said they mainly aren't. if you knew about the webtoon world you would know.


If you're referring to the guidelines, we have been consistent with them. Though I think they could be a little more transparent in certain areas since every time I say "physically published", people obviously get question marks above their heads. Though that's why I'm here (in this thread) to make up for that lack of transparency.


consistent, but not knowledgeable enough. as i explained before (and i can explain even deeper), korean/chinese works are almost always un-printable, because of (1 the horrible censorship and (2 the fact that the (comic) book industry is failing more than you'd imagine. because of this, most webtoon will not be physical because no-one wants any.

MAL thinks that in time eventually some (if not all) webtoon will be physical. not true. china recently lost over 1 billion of it's own money because of the rise of webcomics, while one webcomic by one artist alone has gained over one hundred million readers. there is no way people will go back to comic books. it's just not happening. barely of them ever do. it's not like jump. it's not like S/E. hardly anyone looks forward to a physical of their webcomic.

i am not trashing every rule MAL has done. but their rules are more than 5yrs old. webtoon has grown exponentially since then. if they said they said korean/chinese works can published within their own respective markets, i don't see why not (again, unless i am wrong about this point). what the fans have not done (at least on this page) is not fully explain how webtoon/comics work.

Wizzy123 said:


After all the replies in this thread.... after reading Kuudere's recent reply to you and you're seriously asking that?


did you even see the link? they published a physical book right there.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 14, 2016 11:07 AM
 
Jul 14, 2016 11:43 AM
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TomDay said:
and THAT is what i'm talking about when i talk about MAL's disregard of the culture of webtoon/comics. that right there.


The irony.

TomDay said:
those aren't even close to half of the webtoons online.

and i never said "strictly", you did. i said they mainly aren't. if you knew about the webtoon world you would know.


I've been denying hundreds of webtoons for years now, so it would be strange if I didn't understand the "webtoon world" (not that I was ever really interested). And I used the word "strictly" in the hypothetically sense. I guess I need to start highlighting "if".

The rest has been covered multiple times. Even if we go back and forth forever, the ending you're hoping for is not going to happen.

Edit:
TomDay said:
did you even see the link? they published a physical book right there.


It wasn't Naver that published that webtoon in print. They only "published" it online. The guys who put it in print are 소담출판사 Dream Sodam. You can thank svaax for looking this up :D
Modified by KuroDubZero, Jul 14, 2016 1:32 PM
 
Jul 19, 2016 11:00 PM

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again, i cannot reply right now and i haven't seen or read any new ones. i will work on getting back as soon as i can.
 
Jul 20, 2016 2:29 AM
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Wizzy123 said:
kuuderes_shadow said:
and that last one is saying they are the publisher of those stickers...




"Here guy's, we're super legit because we made stickers!" Hilarious.

@TomDay: Congrats, you've completely ignored years of conclusions and successfully regurgitated the same argument, that obviously isn't going anywhere.

Still waiting (for almost half a decade now) for the webtoon fanatics fans to provide sources of physically published books of these amazing webtoon works but no, that's too high a hurdle.


Noblesse is a webtoon and it got a book.

Dr Frost is a webtoon and it got a book also.

Webtoons have been getting turned into books/tankobon for a while now.
Modified by Laugasts, Jul 20, 2016 2:38 AM
 
Jul 20, 2016 6:53 AM
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TomDay said:
i will work on getting back as soon as i can.


Oh boy, the fun continues! #ObviousSarcasm

Laugasts said:
Webtoons have been getting turned into books/tankobon for a while now.


I was already aware, Laugasts. Noblesse and Dr. Frost has been in the database for years now. The latter half of my comment was mainly about the hundreds of webtoons (especially Tower of God) that are denied regularly.
 
Jul 23, 2016 11:23 AM
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Wizzy123 said:
TomDay said:
i will work on getting back as soon as i can.


Oh boy, the fun continues! #ObviousSarcasm

Laugasts said:
Webtoons have been getting turned into books/tankobon for a while now.


I was already aware, Laugasts. Noblesse and Dr. Frost has been in the database for years now. The latter half of my comment was mainly about the hundreds of webtoons (especially Tower of God) that are denied regularly.


Honestly I have no idea. You'd have to ask a South Korean who reads webtoons tbh.
 
Jul 24, 2016 3:07 PM

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Wizzy123 said:


The irony.


.....what kind of reply is that? it literally makes 0% sense.




I've been denying hundreds of webtoons for years now


that doesn't make it right.

and here's some food for thought, if the same webtoon keep coming up over and over, why not just add it? it will relieve the pressure of the mod's fans' backs.

so it would be strange if I didn't understand the "webtoon world" (not that I was ever really interested).


yeah well you don't. ignoring a culture by no means automatically imply you know about it. in fact it means the opposite.

and (for perhaps the 5th time) i am not asking for anyone to care about things they do not care about. and (for perhaps the 4th time), that is why i suggested to get people who DO care. at least one person on this thread has already everything in store for voluntary work. literally no-one replied to him on that, with a yes or no.

And I used the word "strictly" in the hypothetically sense.


that's a pretty specific word to use that way.

The rest has been covered multiple times.


no, it has not.

i (and another) have asked MULTIPLE TIMES for an asking of volunteers, and that volunteers are all ready to be put into work. no reply on that. i asked if MAL wants to respect korea and china so bad, then why don't they respect their culture. no reply on that.

and if online comics are so apparently cancerous on here, then how the heck does MAL somehow find a way to make an excuse for manga and not webtoon/comics.

the most you have ever contributed to this thread is mock webtoon/comic fans, post extremely uneeded animemes and totally ignore whatever proposals people have given.

this is, again, NOT what MAL stands for. they didn't say they would ignore any proposals and/or arguments for their guidelines. in fact they promised to listen.
but there is no listening. it would make the fans feel at least a small bit better if MAL acknowledged them AND THEN said no, but there is this obvious ignoring and carelessness of this community, to the point when they know so little about webtoon that they wave naver off as nothing but a search engine, and even label them so illegitimate it's impossible to find the opposite.

which only brings up the problem (MAL doesn't know or care a lot of webtoon/comics and the solution (bring in people who DO know and DO care about webtoon/comics, but no-one will listen, when they said they would.

you seem to be confused. i really couldn't care less about webtoon/comics reaching here or not anymore than you. the real problem is MAL not following what they say.

the ending you're hoping for is not going to happen.


for MAL to abide by their own rules they love to say they follow all the time? apparently.

It wasn't Naver that published that webtoon in print. They only "published" it online. The guys who put it in print are 소담출판사 Dream Sodam. You can thank svaax for looking this up :D


i see.

Laugasts said:


Webtoons have been getting turned into books/tankobon for a while now.


not a lot of them tho. and TOG has already been physical but i guess it needed to be 10000000 pages long to be required that :v
Modified by TomDay, Jul 24, 2016 3:15 PM
 
Jul 24, 2016 6:19 PM
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TomDay said:
Wizzy123 said:


The irony.


.....what kind of reply is that? it literally makes 0% sense.


The irony is that you're doing the exact same thing. We're obviously not a culture, but we've given multiple explanations as to why the guidelines are a certain way, explained about why webtoons are in the position they are now and even talked about the consistency among physical media (Manga, Novel, Webtoon). Both active and retired mods have been regurgitating the same stuff since genesis. Even after all of that, the end result;

"Screw your guidelines, Screw your consistency, Screw your explanations, I don't want to hear none of that shite. All that matter is webtoons and more webtoons, MAKE IT HAPPEN!"

i (and another) have asked MULTIPLE TIMES for an asking of volunteers, and that volunteers are all ready to be put into work.


Over the years we've established many new teams; Social media, Review mods, IRC mods, but I can say with absolute confidence, there won't ever be a webtoon team.

Actions speak louder than words. When another three years go by, you'll realize that all of this has been pointless talk. Seriously, coming back to this thread time and time again always carries a feeling of nausea and regret. I'm going to enjoy the rest of my Sunday and end it on this; Goodluck with that. I'm done replying about this to you.

Edit: I didn't want to sound too harsh, but I really am tired of this thread and this topic. Don't take it personal.
Modified by KuroDubZero, Jul 24, 2016 7:54 PM
 
Jul 29, 2016 9:59 PM

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this post marks my final post that is relevant to this year, fun fact :P (2016)


just gonna skip a load of things and just say this:

Wizzy123 said:


Both active and retired mods have been regurgitating the same stuff since genesis.


because the acknowledgement of webtoon/comics are very much to be desired. again, ignoring that won't make the rules right.

"Screw your guidelines, Screw your consistency, Screw your explanations, I don't want to hear none of that shite. All that matter is webtoons and more webtoons, MAKE IT HAPPEN!"


i have said that

(1 MAL has promised to add korean/chinese products
(2 however, they want their products to act like japan
(3 korea/china doesn't act like japan, so the rules need to stop asking for impossible things and just make the appropriate for korean/chinese culture if they claim that they want their stuff on their site.

that's the whole point. whatever the webtoon fans have whined to you for the past 10yrs, i haven't. again, if MAL says something, they need to keep by it.

and, again, i've already said before that i couldn't care less if they appear on MAL or not in the first place, but if they are prevented from coming on the site by biased and un-knowledgeable rules, that is the problem i have. if it was the fact that anime dogs weren't allowed on the site, i would point it out. if it was anime girls not being on the site, i'd point it out. if it was manga, i'd do the same. it has very little to do with my desire to see webtoon on the site.

no-one is asking or ordering for the guidelines to be screwed. they are simply asking for an adjustment (and rightly, at that).

Edit: I didn't want to sound too harsh, but I really am tired of this thread and this topic. Don't take it personal.


no, you've seen threads like this a million times. i'd be a complete idiot if i didn't see it your way.
Modified by TomDay, Jul 30, 2016 12:41 AM
 
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