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starmaker032 said: Irenesharda said: s2012k1993 said: However, I highly doubt that Fearokk would be willing to risk the entire fleet if the pirates ever decided to attack. Near the end of this episode, as Lukkage was climbing up to the control room, Fearokk asked his subordinates to leave him. He clearly wouldn't have risked the entirety of Gargantia in an all out battle with the pirates as he demonstrates in this episode. What I am saying is that it's meaningless to avoid conflict with the pirates while being the dominated force, especially when Gargantia isn't willing to risk everything. Actually what the captain did WAS risk everything. He told them to leave because he was the one she wanted. He was effectively sacrificing his life to the Pirate Queen, who would have killed him and then effectively taken over Gargantia. She could then do whatever she wanted with the people whether that be killing them, enslaving them, etc. It was actually a stupid move when all they had to do was call Red on the radio and tell him to take the pirates out. That way he could speedily take out multiple targets and save Gargantia from being raided and destroyed. In this case, self-sacrifice would have been a waste and had absolutely no point. Even the people who the captain told to leave the room would have had nowhere to go. They're stuck on boats surrounded by water, shark pirates and pirate ships. The pirates did not look they were slave drivers, it was repeated and said by both sides that all they wanted was revenge, he clearly was hoping that his death would solve it. And Gargantia just wanted to show the pirates that it's best to leave them alone but they also wanted to be a normal fleet, they did not want things getting out of their control by using Ledo. Also it wasn't him with the radio, if worst came to worst the girl who he clearly has lots of trust in, has the radio. The pirates have slaves (how acquiescent they are to their situation is another story...) it's listed on the shows website the two girls are "slaves". I don't think they meant that in a stage girl way. I would not put it past a bunch of pirates anyway, who murder, loot, rape, and plunder to indulge in slavery as well. Gargantia also said that the pirates are only out for one thing: blood. They were going to KILL the people in Gargantia's fleet. I think when a group of pirates is boarding your boats and raiding you, they're not going to just stop there. They had ALREADY killed a bunch of people on those armed boat which they set aflame. And yes, Red does have a radio. They specifically gave it to him so they could communicate with him via walkie-talkie fashion. |
Ainsley_Harriott said: +1 thisLet's totally forget that Ledo destroyed 5 ships in the blink of an eye and has armor we couldn't even scratch. Why not send him to disable/destroy the ships during daytime, when your whole goddamn plan is to kill them when they get close anyways? Nope, lets wait so we can suffer casualties and be hypocrites. Easy solution: Red destroys main enemy ship with laser. Conclusion: No one dies, pirates give up. Better solution: They said 30 fleets were "all the pirates in the area", and the ship with the crab was the pirate queen. Have Red destroy "all the pirates in the area". Conclusion: All the pirates in the area die. Everlasting peace. |
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Irenesharda said: starmaker032 said: Irenesharda said: s2012k1993 said: However, I highly doubt that Fearokk would be willing to risk the entire fleet if the pirates ever decided to attack. Near the end of this episode, as Lukkage was climbing up to the control room, Fearokk asked his subordinates to leave him. He clearly wouldn't have risked the entirety of Gargantia in an all out battle with the pirates as he demonstrates in this episode. What I am saying is that it's meaningless to avoid conflict with the pirates while being the dominated force, especially when Gargantia isn't willing to risk everything. Actually what the captain did WAS risk everything. He told them to leave because he was the one she wanted. He was effectively sacrificing his life to the Pirate Queen, who would have killed him and then effectively taken over Gargantia. She could then do whatever she wanted with the people whether that be killing them, enslaving them, etc. It was actually a stupid move when all they had to do was call Red on the radio and tell him to take the pirates out. That way he could speedily take out multiple targets and save Gargantia from being raided and destroyed. In this case, self-sacrifice would have been a waste and had absolutely no point. Even the people who the captain told to leave the room would have had nowhere to go. They're stuck on boats surrounded by water, shark pirates and pirate ships. The pirates did not look they were slave drivers, it was repeated and said by both sides that all they wanted was revenge, he clearly was hoping that his death would solve it. And Gargantia just wanted to show the pirates that it's best to leave them alone but they also wanted to be a normal fleet, they did not want things getting out of their control by using Ledo. Also it wasn't him with the radio, if worst came to worst the girl who he clearly has lots of trust in, has the radio. The pirates have slaves (how acquiescent they are to their situation is another story...) it's listed on the shows website the two girls are "slaves". I don't think they meant that in a stage girl way. I would not put it past a bunch of pirates anyway, who murder, loot, rape, and plunder to indulge in slavery as well. Gargantia also said that the pirates are only out for one thing: blood. They were going to KILL the people in Gargantia's fleet. I think when a group of pirates is boarding your boats and raiding you, they're not going to just stop there. They had ALREADY killed a bunch of people on those armed boat which they set aflame. And yes, Red does have a radio. They specifically gave it to him so they could communicate with him via walkie-talkie fashion. I saw the radio and the purple haired girl had the other one, she was still safe and was clearly second in command. I thought it was pretty clear that the commander clearly thought he was enough to ask for peace. Those were no slaves, they clearly were happy as all hell to serve and had their own machines. Killing the guys shooting and you and the innocent if different, they wanted blood for revenge. Read again on why they didn't want to use Ledo till shit got really bad if it got really bad. |
katsucats said: Ainsley_Harriott said: +1 thisLet's totally forget that Ledo destroyed 5 ships in the blink of an eye and has armor we couldn't even scratch. Why not send him to disable/destroy the ships during daytime, when your whole goddamn plan is to kill them when they get close anyways? Nope, lets wait so we can suffer casualties and be hypocrites. Easy solution: Red destroys main enemy ship with laser. Conclusion: No one dies, pirates give up. Better solution: They said 30 fleets were "all the pirates in the area", and the ship with the crab was the pirate queen. Have Red destroy "all the pirates in the area". Conclusion: All the pirates in the area die. Everlasting peace. Oh yeah and then end of story? yeah right no one is else is gonna hear anything. and no one is gonna question them? What happens when ledo leaves? Who protects them then? and how changed would their life be if people knew what they could do? |
| nice throw, Chamber. |
katsucats said: Ainsley_Harriott said: +1 thisLet's totally forget that Ledo destroyed 5 ships in the blink of an eye and has armor we couldn't even scratch. Why not send him to disable/destroy the ships during daytime, when your whole goddamn plan is to kill them when they get close anyways? Nope, lets wait so we can suffer casualties and be hypocrites. Easy solution: Red destroys main enemy ship with laser. Conclusion: No one dies, pirates give up. Better solution: They said 30 fleets were "all the pirates in the area", and the ship with the crab was the pirate queen. Have Red destroy "all the pirates in the area". Conclusion: All the pirates in the area die. Everlasting peace. I like the everlasting peace part. 'Cause... you know, EVERLASTING PEACE. |
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| Their response defies rational analysis-Chamber Pretty much sums up what were all complaining about. |
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ColdXClue said: Their response defies rational analysis-Chamber Pretty much sums up what were all complaining about. I feel like "rational analysis-Chamber," should be a meme... |
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Utagaii said: ColdXClue said: Their response defies rational analysis-Chamber Pretty much sums up what were all complaining about. I feel like "rational analysis-Chamber," should be a meme... haha that would be the perfect meme for so many things. |
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ColdXClue said: Utagaii said: ColdXClue said: Their response defies rational analysis-Chamber Pretty much sums up what were all complaining about. I feel like "rational analysis-Chamber," should be a meme... haha that would be the perfect meme for so many things. Exactly why I think someone needs to make it haha! Something like...: -Something stupid is done- Rational Analysis Chamber does not understand. |
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bachou said: am i watching gundam seed ? a war without killing ? what the fuck imma drop this shit too much kira yamato freaking pansy |
Brigs77Apr 21, 2013 9:21 PM
| Main character too OP. Although it would've been totally underwhelming if some random woman with a lobster mecha came and took him out, I'm not sure where the story will progress from here...is he going to just settle into a peaceful life or what? |
Ajunky said: randomperson2229 said: Utagaii said: Someone had posted earlier that there's actually a good chance it WON'T be urobuchi because the guy said himself that it was supposed to be a "healing anime." I put the quotes there because I don't know what its supposed to mean, other than that its not urobuchi and K-On is considered a healing anime (so I mean... opposite of urobuchi, you'd think...) If someone could tell me what a healing anime is... much appreciated. I'll let tvtropes explain. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Iyashikei This should be taken with many grains of salt, however, since he also claimed Madoka was going to be "heartwarming" instead of like his usual works. I really hope he's being honest here though, I'd greatly prefer this to not be grimdark. Urobuchi's concept of "heartwarming" was taking the viewer's heart out and putting it on a roaster... >_> I say "healing anime" has something to do with plenty of bandages. I find it pretty difficult to recuperate from Urobuchi style plots... doesn't matter how many bandages or how good they are... |
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| haha nice episode. I was wondering if the pirates would break his OP streak but I guess he was going way too easy. |
starmaker032 said: What are you talking about? They made it a point in the show that the entire pirate fleet was there. They had the opportunity to kill the entire pirate fleet, but chose to have Red "distract" the pirates while they suffer casualties on both sides.katsucats said: Oh yeah and then end of story? yeah right no one is else is gonna hear anything. and no one is gonna question them? What happens when ledo leaves? Who protects them then? and how changed would their life be if people knew what they could do?Ainsley_Harriott said: +1 thisLet's totally forget that Ledo destroyed 5 ships in the blink of an eye and has armor we couldn't even scratch. Why not send him to disable/destroy the ships during daytime, when your whole goddamn plan is to kill them when they get close anyways? Nope, lets wait so we can suffer casualties and be hypocrites. Easy solution: Red destroys main enemy ship with laser. Conclusion: No one dies, pirates give up. Better solution: They said 30 fleets were "all the pirates in the area", and the ship with the crab was the pirate queen. Have Red destroy "all the pirates in the area". Conclusion: All the pirates in the area die. Everlasting peace. Let me answer this question: "What happens when ledo leaves? Who protects them then?" What happens when Red leaves them with no pirates left? What happens when Red leaves them with all the pirates left? I know what I would pick. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I liked Bellows in this episode more than Amy. Actually I have always liked Bellows more than Amy. Even though she's not the main love interest I hope Bellows will continue to have consistent screentime in future. This episode was a fun ride. Ledo trying to say Arigatou at the end was cute, he may as well be my favorite MC in mecha anime ever (that may not saying much though considering I don't watch that many mecha). |
| WE MUSN'T KILL, THEY ARE HUMANS BUT THEY'LL THREATEN TO KILL US BUT THEY PROBABLY MAYBE WON'T THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GUNS IT'S BAD YOU SAVED US OKAY THEY'RE COMING BACK, WHAT DO WE DO? WE SHOULD FIGHT THEM, BUT DON'T KILL THEM, ACTUALLY WAIT NO WE CAN KILL THEM BUT SPACEMAN CAN'T BECAUSE THAT'S BAD, LET'S WASTE VALUABLE RESOURCES SUCH AS FUEL AND BOMBARBIER SHELLS, USE SPACEMAN FOR LIGHTING, TAKE MASSIVE DAMAGE TO THE ONE GIANT FLOATING FUCKING THING KEEPING US FROM SINKING INTO THE OCEAN, GIVE FISH WATER BECAUSE HUMANITY I would be lying if I said that the logic and lame characters introduced into this episode didn't almost completely turn me off to the rest of the entire show. |
| Spectacular episode once again. I can see this becoming a pretty chill show. It has that aura to it. I keep laughing at the difference in tech. |
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DEMOLITION_D said: WE MUSN'T KILL, THEY ARE HUMANS BUT THEY'LL THREATEN TO KILL US BUT THEY PROBABLY MAYBE WON'T THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GUNS IT'S BAD YOU SAVED US OKAY THEY'RE COMING BACK, WHAT DO WE DO? WE SHOULD FIGHT THEM, BUT DON'T KILL THEM, ACTUALLY WAIT NO WE CAN KILL THEM BUT SPACEMAN CAN'T BECAUSE THAT'S BAD, LET'S WASTE VALUABLE RESOURCES SUCH AS FUEL AND BOMBARBIER SHELLS, USE SPACEMAN FOR LIGHTING, TAKE MASSIVE DAMAGE TO THE ONE GIANT FLOATING FUCKING THING KEEPING US FROM SINKING INTO THE OCEAN, GIVE FISH WATER BECAUSE HUMANITY I would be lying if I said that the logic and lame characters introduced into this episode didn't almost completely turn me off to the rest of the entire show. this. i really liked this show 1st two episodes. now i'm worried. plus it's kindof preachy. |
| Poor Amy D: He has to eat a corpse again LOL |
| I've really been enjoying this series. I like, for the most part, the way it has been developing and cannot wait to see how it progresses from here. I can completely understand the frustrations that people are feeling over the "Killing vs. Non-Killing" argument, but don't feel like I'll add anything useful there, so I won't even bother (so much has been said already that if anyone wants to look into it, just read the rest of this topic). On a positive note (as this series is my second favorite anime this season, trailing after Mao-sama and residing above Devil Survivor 2), I have to say that I like the protagonist. He is a breath of fresh air among mecha protagonists. Not whiny, very logical and clearly shows intelligence. I wish there could be more like him out there. Less angst and more personality. Anyways, I'm excited for the next episode and cannot wait to see how this will progress. |
Litrydow said: Akanezora said: Also, do you guys think Gen will kill a lot of people like he always does? Or will he be a peaceful good-guy this time? I hope this becomes Urobuchi-style soon enough, because there's nothing too great about the plot yet. hmm So I'm the only huh. I also want this to get dark, Uro style pretty soon. |
| So pacifists now considered as a retarded ideology, huh? No wonder we can never have a longlasting peace in this world. 1. I hated the way people are acting like smartass when they are sitting in a perfectly objective view (Anime watcher who could view the entire situation from 3rd person view), not considering that they have a completely different view and morale with us. Why can't they have a different ideology with us, a post-war generation with internet who have an evolving ideology (along with internet) while they're basically just a bunch of nomadic tribe in ships who only has an access to machine gun, cannons and some strange robots? 2. I think comparison between Ledo and Nuclear Bomb is pretty accurate. Nuclear Bomb is a highly effective weapon, it can annihilate an entire city in a matter of seconds and two of them are strong enough to end the war without resorting to an all-scale war with mainland Japan which will cost many more lives. It's absolutely a GOOD move if we only view with a simple objective view in regards to death and cost counting. However, it's too powerful. It's too powerful that nobody use it again for war for more than 50 years. Why? You asked. That's because it's simply too strong that using that weapon make us felt that it isn't even felt like an acceptable weapon anymore. Not counting that it may bring more negative effects, just like Gargantians who still can't be sure that trusting Ledo will not bring any disaster in the future. Gun is killing weapon, but it's still humane for us to use it since we're familiar with it and the damage is still controllable. You can actually trigger the gun and control the damage as you wish (it can be a lethal shoot or threatening shoot, while nobody have any time to study how far Ledo's power could be controlled). However, Ledo and his mecha is far beyond their imagination. Everybody fear anything that went beyond their imagination and there's no way they are going to trust a weapon THAT strong within a day. It's stupid, yes, but it's reasonable and actually realistic. |
| This show just keeps getting more and more interesting!!!! I watched the first episode and didn't think it was that good, but this episode kept me on the edge of my seat!!! The fight was awesome and ah Led is so adorable >.< Looooved the ending when he said totally died so cute :) I like how calm Led is and how he didn't get all angry at them when they were angry at him for killing the pirate... I mean it was Amy herself who told him to go help and if I were him I'd be so angry... but he didn't get angry !! ^.^ |
| Chamber as always XD "Are,, Arege,, Arega,,, Aregato." hahaha,, now where are you pirates? |
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uberwok said: DEMOLITION_D said: WE MUSN'T KILL, THEY ARE HUMANS BUT THEY'LL THREATEN TO KILL US BUT THEY PROBABLY MAYBE WON'T THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GUNS IT'S BAD YOU SAVED US OKAY THEY'RE COMING BACK, WHAT DO WE DO? WE SHOULD FIGHT THEM, BUT DON'T KILL THEM, ACTUALLY WAIT NO WE CAN KILL THEM BUT SPACEMAN CAN'T BECAUSE THAT'S BAD, LET'S WASTE VALUABLE RESOURCES SUCH AS FUEL AND BOMBARBIER SHELLS, USE SPACEMAN FOR LIGHTING, TAKE MASSIVE DAMAGE TO THE ONE GIANT FLOATING FUCKING THING KEEPING US FROM SINKING INTO THE OCEAN, GIVE FISH WATER BECAUSE HUMANITY I would be lying if I said that the logic and lame characters introduced into this episode didn't almost completely turn me off to the rest of the entire show. this. i really liked this show 1st two episodes. now i'm worried. plus it's kindof preachy. I honestly don't even know how they messed up that bad. Not that I'm not willing to give the show a second chance. Episode 4 had better blow me away. |
I honestly don't even know how they messed up that bad. Not that I'm not willing to give the show a second chance. Episode 4 had better blow me away. Yeah my roommate and I were having a good laugh while watching this one. But you have to realize, the pilot of the nuke-machine-2000 was most likely thinking the same thing as this was going on. |
| Favorite Animes: Infinite Ryvius, Now and Then, Here and There, Kimagure Orange Road Castle of Heroes: Free Browser-based Multiplayer Strategy RPG (yes I made it and am very happy to share it :)) |
| I really enjoy the great action from this episode can't wait to see more !! |
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| Ugh, almost all of the pirates were concentrated into that one area. Why the hell would anyone choose to take the pacifist approach? The entire region could've been free of pirates for years if Ledo has simply annihilated their entire fleet. The decision they made made no sense at all. Then again, I guess the anime couldn't have the pirates plot to strike again if they were all dead, thus making the story department more lacking towards the end. And if the pirates do come back (they obviously will) and Ledo were gone, Gargantia would be annihilated. |
Arcane587Apr 21, 2013 11:56 PM
| Great episode, haven't seen an anime like this, that I was satisfied with the logic of the whole circumstances. In terms of the killing vs non-killing thing (I skipped like 8 pages of this topic tbh), The whole talk between Ledo and Bellows seems to be misinterpreted to some extent, by like... almost everyone here... (At least based on the subs I was reading by UTW). She says clearly that killing humans was forbidden "here", as in on Earth, as opposed to space. She didn't say "you" shouldn't kill, implying that its wrong in the eyes of her community, but the implication is that it is widely considered wrong to kill humans in (Earth's) society. This includes the pirates as well. You can assume that for the most part during the raids, neither side confronted each other in hope of killing each other (or expected to); gargantia to defend and scare them off with their guns, the pirates to scare them off with their guns, to be able to loot (not kill). She said it was their form of negotiation. Its also implied very much that the pirates didn't kill during their looting either, as she says that the guns are mostly for show, that blood shed only Now began since Ledo assisted. Because he killed though, the Gargantia peoplez knew they'd retaliate with blood, and went full on in revenge. Its plausible, cuz assuming they never had major amounts of bloodshed in the past, the fact that their entire fleet got wiped out, they'd attack them full force, an go for killing, Although it was also shown that the pirate girl was obviously more interested in the mecha that sunk her ships (having lured Ledo to her). After they realized the pirates would come back to kill, it made sense to ask Ledo for assistance, but not to further aggravate the situation by eliminating them all again. Of course, this is all based on the subs i read, and my interpretations of them, but as far as that goes, I don't see why people wouldn't consider the reactions of the characters to be "off". In the very least, there wasn't anything that didn't make sense to an extent. |
| "There are no wrong turnings. Only paths we had not known we were meant to walk." - Tigana "The genius of Guilty Crown is that they made a show so stupid and illogical that it's almost impossible to criticize properly. I don't even know where to start." - Sleeplesstown |
| Wow, this episode was rather entertaining with the action. I'm looking forward to the next episodes. |
 |
| I wonder what's the year... Initially I thought it was like the year 900,000,000 something. But it's most probable between 4,000-1,000,000 AD. They don't seem to incorporate electronic circuitry into their technology too, it's all mostly oldschool gears and hydraulics it seems. But what is stopping them from progressing further? Lack of natural resources? Or their ancestors nuking the hell out of each other making them scared in advancing their technology? And does the Alliance have FTL capabilities? For all their cool tech, they can't even terraform... That aside, this seems to be going the laid adventure and slice of life route, which I don't mind at all. I'm not going to get surprised if they introduce a twist, like a world war or space invasions though... |
| Some fans in Japan commented that the westerners, and especially the "war loving" Americans, would not be able to get the concept behind the power balance relationship and non-killing philosophy behind Gargantia fleet. Reading some posts here about how people in the anime look "stupid and nonsensical", I cannot help but have to agree with the sharp insight those Japanese fans have regarding some of the western (esp American) mindset. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| I just re-watch this episode for the 3th time and still laugh when Bellows give him chicken to eat! Chamber: "It seems she wishes you to consume the animal carcass" Ledo: (Make disgusting and shock face) AGAIN?! ROlololololo...xD so much epic! Well, I hope Lado laid on Amy as this anime got romance tag...=w=..shocking culture sure fun to watch...*still roll over*..xD |
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SalaZin said: Great episode, haven't seen an anime like this, that I was satisfied with the logic of the whole circumstances. In terms of the killing vs non-killing thing (I skipped like 8 pages of this topic tbh), The whole talk between Ledo and Bellows seems to be misinterpreted to some extent, by like... almost everyone here... (At least based on the subs I was reading by UTW). She says clearly that killing humans was forbidden "here", as in on Earth, as opposed to space. She didn't say "you" shouldn't kill, implying that its wrong in the eyes of her community, but the implication is that it is widely considered wrong to kill humans in (Earth's) society. This includes the pirates as well. You can assume that for the most part during the raids, neither side confronted each other in hope of killing each other (or expected to); gargantia to defend and scare them off with their guns, the pirates to scare them off with their guns, to be able to loot (not kill). She said it was their form of negotiation. Its also implied very much that the pirates didn't kill during their looting either, as she says that the guns are mostly for show, that blood shed only Now began since Ledo assisted. Because he killed though, the Gargantia peoplez knew they'd retaliate with blood, and went full on in revenge. Its plausible, cuz assuming they never had major amounts of bloodshed in the past, the fact that their entire fleet got wiped out, they'd attack them full force, an go for killing, Although it was also shown that the pirate girl was obviously more interested in the mecha that sunk her ships (having lured Ledo to her). After they realized the pirates would come back to kill, it made sense to ask Ledo for assistance, but not to further aggravate the situation by eliminating them all again. Of course, this is all based on the subs i read, and my interpretations of them, but as far as that goes, I don't see why people wouldn't consider the reactions of the characters to be "off". In the very least, there wasn't anything that didn't make sense to an extent. I am not sure about the quality of the sub translation but what you said matches with what I understand from the Japanese dialogue. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Some fans in Japan commented that the westerners, and especially the "war loving" Americans, would not be able to get the concept behind the power balance relationship and non-killing philosophy behind Gargantia fleet. Reading some posts here about how people in the anime look "stupid and nonsensical", I cannot help but have to agree with the sharp insight those Japanese fans have regarding some of the western (esp American) mindset. I was hoping to see you comment about this. I was wondering how the Japanese are reacting to this episode, and as I thought, they react differently from the people here on MAL. Although I don't like to generalize people, but I agree that there are definitely difference between most westerners and I guess, the Japanese (etc). I refrained from responding to the people talking about the "pacifist" approach of Ledo and the people of Gargantia because I think it's really just a difference in mentality, I personally don't understand why people think it's nonsensical or foolish, maybe because I'm not American? But I don't know maybe not everyone here who complained are not westerners? |
kneesofbees said: Even pacifism provides an out for protecting your own life in most cases. That being said pacifism is largely a luxury that we people lucky enough to live in a wealthy peaceful state can indulge in. Living on the edge it is a foolish ideology Something like that also happened in a non-peaceful situation (e.x Shaolin temple). They weren't living on the edge since from what was presented in earlier episodes, current large scale conflict won't happen if Ledo didn't annihilate the previous pirates. Pirates couldn't live without anyone to be pirated, afterall. Because their ideology is nonsensical and foolish. They are outgunned by a force that will kill pillage and rape them. They exist simply because it is too costly for the pirates to take them all at once and because they provide continuous prey over time. If you have a tool to eliminate the pirates it is foolish not to do so. Ideology or no ideology. They never stated that they didn't want to kill at any cost, right? They did seek help from Ledo, yes? Plus, it's not like killing everyone is the only way to solve this problem. It's the fastest, but it's not really "humane" way of things, even in the current society. Eventhough it's against criminals, a tribe mayor easily asking all of them to be killed is still a not-so-logical decision to be made. Except Ledo can fire into a small room and only hit the targets that are enemies and vaporize them with no collateral damage. A Nuke is as bad as it is because it is really only useful against big population centers A.K.A civilian targets. Pirates are not civilian targets. They are enemy combatants and should be treated as such. In the end, it still an unknown weapon to them, nobody knows the exact mechanism of Ledo's weapon. They see the result, yes, but return to my previous point : "People will feel afraid to anything that is unknown to them". They still can't accept a concept of autonomous robot, let alone a complex targeting mechanism like that. In a military conflict this is the only good way to think. How do we end the conflict with the minimum of civilian and friendly casualties. Except they're not military faction, they're just a nomad tribe with some self-defense weapons with civilian mindset, as far I can see. No we don't use Nukes because everybody has them and we would all end up dying if any of us used them. Look up MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). As of right now there is no weapon that can match Chamber. Therefore no MAD. I know about it. However, I think even without everyone having it, nuclear weapon is still considered taboo and will cause controversy. Plus, nobody can be sure that Ledo can stay in their side forever, so they still need to "use" him with caution. This would be true in most cases. However in the case of Pirates coming to kill us all you would be surprised to see how quickly people embrace a new weapon that is vastly more destructive then old weapons. Check out how the African tribes reacted to the introduction of guns into their society. They still asked Ledo for help, so what's wrong with their ideology to not kill EVERYONE? In the end it worked just as planned. Nobody know the actual power of Pirates forces, so there's a possibility that they can solve the problem WITHOUT leaving everything to Ledo (thus reducing a chance of higher conflict due to Ledo's involvement). When Pirates suddenly rush to the Gargantia fleet, Ledo interrupted and end the conflict with minimum casualty. Nobody told Ledo to "Don't kill anyone and let them kill us when we're defeated", right? I don't think it's the best way to solve the conflict, but I think it's still realistic to not act completely logical in the front of sudden problem. Some of you are overreacting to a simple wish to avoid annihilation, something which is absolutely normal to human race (even if it's not the brightest way of thinking in many cases). |
zeroyuki92 said: Pacifism is an idealistic ideology that doesn't consider the dynamics of almost any real life situation where people are imperfect, not totally calculating, and there are complex non-zero-sum motivations. It is pretty much common sense that a long drawn out battle will yield more casualties than using nuclear weapon to scare off the enemy. Pacifism throws the baby out with the bathwater. By not taking the responsibility for killing some people outright, more people die as a result.So pacifists now considered as a retarded ideology, huh? No wonder we can never have a longlasting peace in this world. |
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katsucats said: zeroyuki92 said: Pacifism is an idealistic ideology that doesn't consider the dynamics of almost any real life situation where people are imperfect, not totally calculating, and there are complex non-zero-sum motivations. It is pretty much common sense that a long drawn out battle will yield more casualties than using nuclear weapon to scare off the enemy. Pacifism throws the baby out with the bathwater. By not taking the responsibility for killing some people outright, more people die as a result.So pacifists now considered as a retarded ideology, huh? No wonder we can never have a longlasting peace in this world. same logic when America nuked Japan fast forward decades later and North Korea has thesame logic as you too Nuclear weapon is a silent killer it gave cancer so it kills more lives than you may think |
zeroyuki92 said: So pacifists now considered as a retarded ideology, huh? No wonder we can never have a longlasting peace in this world. i agree with this, Asian countries believe in karma or the golden rule... what you do may (or will) comeback to you... if you do good to others then others will/may do good things for you too likewise if you kill others then others will kill you too |
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