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Do you for the most part agree with the rankings on MAL?

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May 6, 2013 9:57 AM

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IntroverTurtle, I think you either missed or failed to address one of DYRE's key points. And surely it has already been mentioned somewhere in this thread. A really long series like One Piece has a huge advantage in that someone has to have seen one fifth of like --- what --- five hundred episodes in order for his or her vote to be calculated in the ranking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's like one hundred episodes.

It should not take watching one hundred episodes for someone's rating to count. On the other hand, it's unfair for someone to watch only one episode and affect the show's rank as well. So there should be a minimum number of episodes seen to count against the ranking.

If I can use myself as an example. I've seen somewhere between 35 ~ 40 episodes of One Piece. That means I've seen more episodes of One Piece than one of my favorite series, Mushishi. But my rating of One Piece doesn't count against its rank. That doesn't seem right. I've seen enough episodes to have an opinion. The ranking system works just fine for movies, OVAs and any show under 26 episodes. But when you start getting into 50 episodes or more then the ranking system doesn't seem to work as it should. What's the answer? I don't know. Who wants to come up with that formula? I know I don't. So... the ranking system isn't wrong... more like incomplete. So it doesn't work like it should, but it works well enough.

Edit: Well, it's wrong in the sense it doesn't produce the desired result for people like me in at least some instances. But it's not wrong in the sense that it is incorrect.
Modified by n10sity, May 6, 2013 10:02 AM
 
May 6, 2013 10:24 AM

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natssuu said:

Simple logic:

10>9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1
Yes but with the words there, people are confused as to what sets a "Very good" anime apart from a "Great" anime. That's why I said to have words for the three main numbers, the lowest, the middle, and the highest.

n10sity said:
IntroverTurtle, I think you either missed or failed to address one of DYRE's key points. And surely it has already been mentioned somewhere in this thread. A really long series like One Piece has a huge advantage in that someone has to have seen one fifth of like --- what --- five hundred episodes in order for his or her vote to be calculated in the ranking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's like one hundred episodes.
No I didn't miss anything. YOU'RE saying it has an advantage. Yes actually around 125 now, you're not wrong.

n10sity said:
It should not take watching one hundred episodes for someone's rating to count. On the other hand, it's unfair for someone to watch only one episode and affect the show's rank as well. So there should be a minimum number of episodes seen to count against the ranking.
Yes it should, especially if the anime is over 500 episodes long. You can rate the anime whatever you want and drop it whenever you want on your list. Your list is never affected by the top list. So the top list should have it's own rules to better find the way the community feels an anime, and the top list shouldn't be about rating 1/5 of an anime, it should be about rating the whole thing. Yes and this site has a way to do that, though the amount of episodes changes based on the anime, which is good, it is 1/5.

n10sity said:
If I can use myself as an example. I've seen somewhere between 35 ~ 40 episodes of One Piece. That means I've seen more episodes of One Piece than one of my favorite series, Mushishi. But my rating of One Piece doesn't count against its rank. That doesn't seem right. I've seen enough episodes to have an opinion. The ranking system works just fine for movies, OVAs and any show under 26 episodes. But when you start getting into 50 episodes or more then the ranking system doesn't seem to work as it should. What's the answer? I don't know. Who wants to come up with that formula? I know I don't. So... the ranking system isn't wrong... more like incomplete. So it doesn't work like it should, but it works well enough.
It seems perfectly right, One Piece has a significantly more amount of episodes, when you started it you knew that, it's not a surprise. Not an opinion of the whole anime, you've seen less than 1/5 of the anime. More story, characters, deaths, etc haven't happened. Your opinion can completely change and is probably partly the reason for that rule. Like I said, you can rate it however you want on your list. The top list should be about rating the whole anime. And to let you know, that 1/5 rule only counts for completed anime, so your score right now counts for One Piece, even if you dropped it at episode 1 and rated it a 1 just because Luffy doesn't have purple hair.

It's more incomplete because of the users. And it works the way it should, as long as it works the way the site's creator wanted it to.

n10sity said:
Edit: Well, it's wrong in the sense it doesn't produce the desired result for people like me in at least some instances. But it's not wrong in the sense that it is incorrect.
Who's people like you? I think it works fine.
 
May 6, 2013 10:28 AM

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IntroverTurtle said:
natssuu said:

Simple logic:

10>9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1
Yes but with the words there, people are confused as to what sets a "Very good" anime apart from a "Great" anime. That's why I said to have words for the three main numbers, the lowest, the middle, and the highest.



True, from my perspective very good is the exact same thing as great, well I guess they don't matter, everyone seems to have their own kind of rating system
 
May 6, 2013 10:31 AM

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natssuu said:
IntroverTurtle said:
natssuu said:

Simple logic:

10>9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1
Yes but with the words there, people are confused as to what sets a "Very good" anime apart from a "Great" anime. That's why I said to have words for the three main numbers, the lowest, the middle, and the highest.



True, from my perspective very good is the exact same thing as great, well I guess they don't matter, everyone seems to have their own kind of rating system
Yeah that's one of the problems with this site's rating system, everyone interprets it differently. And there are so many old accounts that even if they tried to fix everything now, the scores wouldn't be completely affected.
 
May 6, 2013 10:40 AM

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I don't know about you guys, but to rate the anime, I'm not searching for long, if it was good, it becomes easily an 8 and then for the very good ones, it can climb up to a 10.
And about he whole ranking on MAL, I haven't seen most of the top anime so I can't talk.
 
May 6, 2013 10:54 AM

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If a longer running show is rated highly, and that's because only the people who have watched enough of the show are able to rate it so that the rating influences the global ratings, ie. the fans of the show for the most part, it is a problem that the people who have watched less than the norm required don't get to have a say, but in my opinion, it would be an even bigger problem if people could watch a single episode of a 1000 episode show and rate it badly just because they didn't like the art, music or whatever didn't suit their fancy.

People are forgetting something, MAL, and every other community themed around some form of media for that matter, is essentially a fan community, and such a community will always cater to fans of something, people who like anime in this case. The ratings are for the most part orientational numbers, and are there so that fans of shows with similar traits can easily access other such shows, alongside the help of the recommendation system. The ratings, do not for the most part, present critical assessment of anime as an media, and as the ratings are for the most part influenced by how the fans rate anime, which is in most cases not critical, the ratings are how they are.
 
May 6, 2013 11:11 AM

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Actually, I started watching One Piece when it first aired. Not having read the manga, I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. But that doesn't really matter. I've already stated that I have no problems with a minimum criteria, so there isn't any real point in addressing that again.

We should just focus on where our opinions truly differ: having to watch a show in its entirety in order to count against the top anime rankings. It's such a fundamental difference in opinion that any further discussion will probably prove futile. There is a real problem if I have to watch 100 episodes before I can have an opinion that counts against the ranking. By the time I have seen 13 or so episodes. I should have a good grasp on the story and the characters, not to mention the artwork, music, etc.

You say that the 1/5 rule only counts towards completed shows. I don't know where on this site it says that. But if that is true, then I have no problems with the ranking system. And no further discussion is needed. I take issue with your opinion that "the top list should be about rating the whole anime." But that is neither here nor there. A discussion I'd rather not have.

You can substitute "people like me" with "some". It doesn't really change the point I was trying to make and it's not relevant enough to go into.

Edit: Then again, the series has to end one day. So I guess I still do have a problem with the ranking system. But I can see now that we will just talk in circles about whether or not one needs to see all a series in order for that person's rating to count against the rank. Furthermore, maybe it all corrects itself in time. I imagine InuYasha would be ranked higher if it wasn't already completed.
Modified by n10sity, May 6, 2013 11:19 AM
 
May 6, 2013 11:20 AM

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corwin_r said:
People are forgetting something, MAL, and every other community themed around some form of media for that matter, is essentially a fan community, and such a community will always cater to fans of something, people who like anime in this case. The ratings are for the most part orientational numbers, and are there so that fans of shows with similar traits can easily access other such shows, alongside the help of the recommendation system. The ratings, do not for the most part, present critical assessment of anime as an media, and as the ratings are for the most part influenced by how the fans rate anime, which is in most cases not critical, the ratings are how they are.


Completely agree with this.

While I myself finish anime even if I don't like them, I'm not trying to completely analyze every single show I watch. Ultimately, my score is based on what I feel it should deserve and not on objective qualities. Of course, flaws do affect my experience and thus my score.
 
May 6, 2013 11:32 AM

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n10sity said:
You say that the 1/5 rule only counts towards completed shows. I don't know where on this site it says that. But if that is true, then I have no problems with the ranking system. And no further discussion is needed. I take issue with your opinion that "the top list should be about rating the whole anime." But that is neither here nor there. A discussion I'd rather not have.


Ever noticed jumps in ratings after a series finishes airing? It's because the 1/5th rule only applies to the anime that has finished airing.
 
May 6, 2013 11:44 AM

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yhunata said:
n10sity said:
You say that the 1/5 rule only counts towards completed shows. I don't know where on this site it says that. But if that is true, then I have no problems with the ranking system. And no further discussion is needed. I take issue with your opinion that "the top list should be about rating the whole anime." But that is neither here nor there. A discussion I'd rather not have.


Ever noticed jumps in ratings after a series finishes airing? It's because the 1/5th rule only applies to the anime that has finished airing.


No, but I will take your word for it. In spite of my participation in this thread, I don't really pay much attention to the top anime rankings.
 
May 6, 2013 11:47 AM
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I honestly wish you couldn't rank a show until you have seen the whole series when it comes to the standard 13/26 episode shows but when it comes to longer series I think the 1/5 rule is the lowest amount of episodes you should have to watch for your ranking to be counted. I personally don't rank a show till I've completed it no matter how bad because that last episode could turn the whole anime around for all I know, though very doubtful. For the most part the rankings seem right for each show but just like anybody else on the site their is some placing of shows I would love to switch up. Theirs always going to be something you like that everyone hates and vice verse.
 
May 6, 2013 11:59 AM

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n10sity said:
Actually, I started watching One Piece when it first aired. Not having read the manga, I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. But that doesn't really matter. I've already stated that I have no problems with a minimum criteria, so there isn't any real point in addressing that again.
Fine then, well it still doesn't change my point.

n10sity said:
We should just focus on where our opinions truly differ: having to watch a show in its entirety in order to count against the top anime rankings. It's such a fundamental difference in opinion that any further discussion will probably prove futile. There is a real problem if I have to watch 100 episodes before I can have an opinion that counts against the ranking. By the time I have seen 13 or so episodes. I should have a good grasp on the story and the characters, not to mention the artwork, music, etc.
I don't think you should have to watch it in it's entirety, I would like that. But I know it's not possible, people drop anime early and they should still get a tiny say. I just think that the 1/5 they give us is fine. I don't see it as a problem that you have to watch 100 episodes, like I said the ranking does not affect your list. It is more like a privilege rather than a right.
No 13 episodes isn't nearly enough, especially for a longer anime. Characters change, grow, the story changes or renews, most longer anime have many arcs. Just seeing the first ain't enough to know about the whole anime. Artwork changes, especially for the longer anime as does artstyle. The only thing you can really get down is the setting, as that is usually established at the beginning, but even that changes as new parts of the world are explored, etc. And part of the music is how it goes with the anime, how it enhances scenes. For one, One Piece doesn't really have one of those powerful scenes with the music in the first 13 episodes.

n10sity said:
You say that the 1/5 rule only counts towards completed shows. I don't know where on this site it says that. But if that is true, then I have no problems with the ranking system. And no further discussion is needed. I take issue with your opinion that "the top list should be about rating the whole anime." But that is neither here nor there. A discussion I'd rather not have.
It kind of implies that here through the word choice. For one it says if an anime has 26 episodes or whatever then it's 1/5, but they don't keep track of the current amount of episodes of an airing anime. And it is true, anime usually jump a little whenever they end. Fine with me.

n10sity said:
You can substitute "people like me" with "some". It doesn't really change the point I was trying to make and it's not relevant enough to go into.
I was just checking, I was expecting you to come up with something about a certain type of user that might help me gain insight into what people are looking for in the ratings.

n10sity said:
Edit: Then again, the series has to end one day. So I guess I still do have a problem with the ranking system. But I can see now that we will just talk in circles about whether or not one needs to see all a series in order for that person's rating to count against the rank. Furthermore, maybe it all corrects itself in time. I imagine InuYasha would be ranked higher if it wasn't already completed.
Yes in about 10 years. I don't think someone needs to see all of it, but all of it would be best. I wouldn't have a problem with lowering that number(1/5) for longer anime if then there was a weight attached to each score to better find the score. Like your score won't count until you've seen 1/8 or 1/10 but then after that, your score increases in weight the closer you get to completed(when you've only watched, say 2/8, your score doesn't count much. But at 6/8 it almost counts the same as someone who's watched the whole thing), though maybe with a little gap near the end.
 
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