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Poll: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012) Episode 23 Discussion


Mar 17, 2013 6:53 PM

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Continues to have the highest rated episodes of any anime.

5/5
 
Mar 17, 2013 6:54 PM

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Epic is too weak a word to describe this episode!

Respect for Wham even though he killed Caesar. Such an ideal warrior.

As for Cars, he will have it coming for him. And Stroheim is effin' awesome.
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Mar 18, 2013 12:09 AM

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Ouch, Cars is a dick! Saw Lisa Lisa being Jojo's mom already though, so it didn't really have much impacto.
 
Mar 18, 2013 1:52 PM
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symbv said:
Darklord_bg said:
I find it strange how Jojo (and everyone here) is upset at Cars for using dirty tactics. Isn't that what Jojo himself has been doing the whole time? He even said it himself - there is no place for rules in a death match. It's kill or be killed, plain and simple.
You think using one more person to impersonate him so that it is no longer 1-to-1 fight against LisaLisa is at the same level as the various sneaky tricks Jojo used out of quick wit during the match? If you agree with Cars that there should be no rules in a death match, and by implication Jojo and everyone else are just plain dumb to believe Cars' setting up rules for such a match, then I worry what you may become if you gain power and strength.
While i agree with you that the whole breaking the rules thing isn't something that Joseph should do, being the hero and all that. I also think that he should at least be prepared for the possibilities that his ENEMIES might not keep their word, to do otherwise is just stupid.

On another note I have been waiting forever for the anime to get to this part just so i could say this without it being a spoiler
Lisa Lisa = MILF
 
Mar 18, 2013 6:31 PM

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Wham was a true warrior. Car's is a loser, Wham was way better and stronger. But he is a villain so I guess this much should be expected.
 
Mar 18, 2013 6:43 PM

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Ragna92 said:
Wham was a true warrior. Car's is a loser, Wham was way better and stronger. But he is a villain so I guess this much should be expected.



fluffybunnyboy said:
edl01 said:
Slightly off topic - why do websites still have this listed as "raw"? Was I just imagining the subtitles on the video or something?

Amazing episode, and next week(or the week after) we will finally conclude this great arc. I will admit some parts of the episode I felt were a bit on the silly side, like Wham attaching his head to the crossbow, but it's 1980's so I'll forgive it.

I am curious how they are going to do part 3 however

This anime still has about three more weeks to go.

As for a potential Part 3 TV anime,

I'm wondering how Arabia Fats' arc is going to be animated...

It's only 2 chapters and barely anything happens in either.
To the last, I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool!
 
Mar 19, 2013 12:25 AM

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I don't like this turn of events. Why does the one tough female character have to be immediately downgraded to damsel in distress status? I know the show is about macho men, but that's kind of insulting.
 
Mar 19, 2013 3:10 AM

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YorozuyaGinSan said:


Regarding Part 3...


Redfoxoffire said:
I don't like this turn of events. Why does the one tough female character have to be immediately downgraded to damsel in distress status? I know the show is about macho men, but that's kind of insulting.


Yeah that's a sore point for a lot of Lisa Lisa fans (myself included) and unfortunately the Damsel in Distress thing does pop up a bit throughout the different parts to varying degrees. It even (sort of) pops up in Stone Ocean, where a majority of the cast are tough female characters.

In the series defence I will say that I don't think JJBA ever does anything as blatantly insulting as this again, and was probably more a by-product of its own shortcomings than anything else. The author wasn't very good at sharing fights with the supporting characters in the first two parts; whenever they did they'd get defeated and/or killed (this does get remedied in the next part onward thankfully).
 
Mar 19, 2013 6:17 PM

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Oh damn, that cliffhanger! I haven't been this excited during an episode for a while now so I think Jojo's back on top form. Amazing ep, great battles with Wham and Cars so far. Very glad to see Stroheim and Smoky making a return.
 
Mar 19, 2013 7:56 PM

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Redfoxoffire said:
I don't like this turn of events. Why does the one tough female character have to be immediately downgraded to damsel in distress status? I know the show is about macho men, but that's kind of insulting.

"Kind of" is an understatement. ^^;;;

But, Araki has said that it was considered taboo to have fighting women in shonen manga in the 80's, and he personally did not really warm up to that idea until about the time of Stone Ocean, which was about a decade later.

Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
 
Mar 20, 2013 12:43 PM

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I loved the animation in this episode.
this scene was nicely done

Sorry Lisa Lisa
 
Mar 20, 2013 12:54 PM

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Man Wham was a G. Despite him being the bad guy you couldn't help but respect him. My brother and I as we were watching this episode were doing the salute haha.

Cars is a bastard, but he's a damn good villain. These fights are gonna be epic.

Was the truth about Lisa Lisa really that hard to realize after she told JoJo who she was? Smokey just confirmed what we could all easily surmise imo.

Can't wait for the next episode!
A match made in heaven set the fires in hell
 
Mar 20, 2013 4:57 PM
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I'm in a relationship of love and hate about this episode. I really wanted to Lisa Lisa Kills cars :( But I loved the return of two of my favorite characters, Speedwagon and Stroheim :DD
 
Mar 20, 2013 10:49 PM
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The_Redux said:
Redfoxoffire said:
I don't like this turn of events. Why does the one tough female character have to be immediately downgraded to damsel in distress status? I know the show is about macho men, but that's kind of insulting.


Yeah that's a sore point for a lot of Lisa Lisa fans (myself included) and unfortunately the Damsel in Distress thing does pop up a bit throughout the different parts to varying degrees. It even (sort of) pops up in Stone Ocean, where a majority of the cast are tough female characters.

In the series defence I will say that I don't think JJBA ever does anything as blatantly insulting as this again, and was probably more a by-product of its own shortcomings than anything else. The author wasn't very good at sharing fights with the supporting characters in the first two parts; whenever they did they'd get defeated and/or killed (this does get remedied in the next part onward thankfully).


You guys should probably research more about the Damsel in Distress trope before making comments based only in your own double standards, seeing as all side characters in the show have been fodderized.
 
Mar 20, 2013 11:58 PM

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Yeah, my biggest problem with the first two Jojo arcs is that Johnathon and Joseph do practically all the fighting. I've never been a fan of the main protagonist doing everything, but thankfully as has been said by a few others, this is nowhere near as much an issue part 3 and on. This is one of the reasons why I've found myself liking parts three, four, and what I've read of five significantly more.

As far as the female bad ass not doing anything, at least we have Part 6 to look forward to. Assuming it gets animated, of course.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

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Mar 21, 2013 1:36 AM

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Saduj said:
The_Redux said:

Yeah that's a sore point for a lot of Lisa Lisa fans (myself included) and unfortunately the Damsel in Distress thing does pop up a bit throughout the different parts to varying degrees. It even (sort of) pops up in Stone Ocean, where a majority of the cast are tough female characters.

In the series defence I will say that I don't think JJBA ever does anything as blatantly insulting as this again, and was probably more a by-product of its own shortcomings than anything else. The author wasn't very good at sharing fights with the supporting characters in the first two parts; whenever they did they'd get defeated and/or killed (this does get remedied in the next part onward thankfully).


You guys should probably research more about the Damsel in Distress trope before making comments based only in your own double standards, seeing as all side characters in the show have been fodderized.


I'd suggest knowing the definition yourself before you accuse people of being blinded by double standards. A Damsel in Distress is a character whose own peril is used as a plot device motivator for the main characters in order to progress the story, she definitely fits that description right now. The annoyance stems from how unceremoniously she gets defeated in order to cause the situation (despite being a better Ripple user than Joseph).

Also I did mention the "fodderisation" of side characters in the post that you quoted, I bolded it so you won't miss it next time ;)

insan3soldiern said:

As far as the female bad ass not doing anything, at least we have Part 6 to look forward to. Assuming it gets animated, of course.


It'd be surprising and heartbreaking if it didn't, since Stone Ocean is one of my favourite parts and it'd reduce the odds of seeing Steel Ball Run getting animated :(.
Modified by WandererRedux, Mar 21, 2013 1:45 AM
 
Mar 22, 2013 6:27 AM

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I'm also underwhelmed by Lisa Lisa's performance in this episode. This was supposed to be her fight; we'd finally see her take down a big enemy all by herself. But...nope. It was even more disappointing when she barely lasted a minute against Cars.

As fluffybunnyboy posted on the previous page, unfortunately it was due to being a victim of the era I guess. However, looking back at the Lisa Lisa "fanservice" episode it almost undermines her character now knowing the outcome of this fight. I guess I was wrong not to be bothered by the fanservice. I just...wanted her to kick some ass, on top of also being sexy. =(

The stuff with Wham was cool.
 
Mar 22, 2013 7:22 AM

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Mormegil said:
As fluffybunnyboy posted on the previous page, unfortunately it was due to being a victim of the era I guess. However, looking back at the Lisa Lisa "fanservice" episode it almost undermines her character now knowing the outcome of this fight. I guess I was wrong not to be bothered by the fanservice. I just...wanted her to kick some ass, on top of also being sexy. =(

Oh yeah, about that:

The "fanservice" scene was not even remotely as explicit in the original manga as it was in the show. The animators took that bath scene and played up the sexual exploitation factor to about the maximum that they could, for being on TV.

Her body didn't even look like her body when she's wearing clothes, either. They exaggerated the size of particular body parts just for that one scene. It was beyond shameless, and I was disappointed by that as well.
 
Mar 22, 2013 6:35 PM

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OGHelios said:
Was the truth about Lisa Lisa really that hard to realize after she told JoJo who she was? Smokey just confirmed what we could all easily surmise imo.


It made more sense in the manga, considering over a whole year (in real life) had passed since the beginning of Part 2 when Smokey was talking about Joseph's parents in NYC.
 
Apr 13, 2013 5:09 AM

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I disliked how they didn't let LisaLisa fight and she ended becoming a rescue needed victim. I don't hate weak or not very fighting useful girls in shounen like others but when a woman is as awesome as Lisa Lisa and has the ability to kick serious ass is annoying seeing her degraded like that with no chance to show her abilities in all their glory.

Btw has anyone ever thought that he will be saying "Thank God the Nazi's came?". Lol.
Modified by Monad, Apr 13, 2013 5:16 AM
 
Jun 4, 2013 6:06 PM

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Khars is HOT...crazy as hell, but still VERY HOT!

Sent with Mal Updater
 
Jun 15, 2013 8:17 AM

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Damn Cars with his filthy trick, poor Lisa Lisa I do hope she ain't dead, but damn to have a strong characteristic in the end, who would have thought she would be his mother that supposedly died in the war? Well the final battle is just around the corner and well good for german science that Stroheim is back! This is really getting interesting now Jojo is really in a pinch now!
 
Jun 15, 2013 4:12 PM

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German science is SEKAI ICHIIIIIIIIIIII!!!
 
Sep 25, 2013 5:18 AM

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Yeah figured they won't let her fight and be a badass :( has to be JoJo!
She's just "decoration" at this point T.T
Modified by Aozure, Sep 25, 2013 5:22 AM
 
Oct 15, 2013 4:18 PM

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DannyREN said:
Yeah figured they won't let her fight and be a badass :( has to be JoJo!
She's just "decoration" at this point T.T


Keep in mind that the manga came out in the 80s, when the target audience wanted nothing but seeing big burly men beat the shit out of other big burly men. The concept of a woman fighting seriously in a shounen manga was, at the time, almost unheard of. I'm not saying it's right, just explaining why it happened that way.
 
Jan 8, 2014 8:09 AM

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Cars has fabulous hair, dissapointed that Lisa Lisa didnt last 2 minutes against him
 
Jan 24, 2014 11:11 AM

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That was insane, Wham took it super hard, and in the end, even got me to like him quite a bit, somehow, in the manga, he didn't come across as this likable, sure he was a cool dude for leaving the bandanna and ring floating in the castle, but he didn't feel like such an honorable person in general, oh well, either way it was a good episode, on to 24!
 
Feb 21, 2014 12:40 PM

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That was Pretty Lame that we didn't see a full fight with Lisa Lisa =(. Still uncomfortable with the idea of Nazis as sort of good guys (gag!)
Love and Peace!!!
 
Mar 9, 2014 4:11 PM

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Poor Lisa Lisa. T^T

This episode was fabulous, and Cars is awesome.
Next episode should be great as well. ^^
 
Mar 16, 2014 7:01 PM

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So I did hear right when Smokey said in the earlier episode that JoJo was from the child Erina saved and the child she had with Jonathan. What a tragedy, hope she can make it out alive.

Wamuu ultimate attack was pretty crazy. For a moment, I really thought JoJo had lost, what an idiot I am xD
Weirdly, I felt a bit sad when Wamuu died. Even if he was a vampire and probably killed a lot of innocent, he was a great warrior and, unlike Cars, true to his wisdom.

About Cars... What a fucking dumbass. Lost all the little respect from him, now I only have anger against him. I hope JoJo beat his ass good. Though I must say that his hair is fabulous, I wonder what shampoo he use... :P

Stroheim really have the trick for magnificient and dramatic entrance xD
What a fabulous motherfucker :3
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Mar 30, 2014 9:41 PM

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Cars was just looked fabulous, and the awesome return of Stroheim, an honorable death for Wham,and an upcoming battle with Cars? next episode is gonna be awesome.
 
Apr 4, 2014 2:46 AM
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As expected, Lisa Lisa is Jojo's hot sexy oka-san. I'm a bit miffed that we didn't get to see her fight a bit more with her impressive skills.

Vampires vs. Nazi Cyborgs. This is getting too good.
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Apr 30, 2014 3:50 AM

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I'm just pissed i didn't get to see lisa lisa fight properly, i was really looking forward to that :'(

But damn, jojo was peeking at his own mother in the bath LOL
Does anyone else need a doctor to confirm that someone without a head is dead?
 
Apr 30, 2014 7:06 AM

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Holy shit. Did they just use Guile theme song?
 
May 17, 2014 4:56 PM

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I knew it!

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆


watch nodame cantabile

recommend me anything!
 
May 18, 2014 10:56 AM

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Oh, they finally confirmed that Lisa Lisa is JoJo's mom. I was confused previously with characters acting like she isn't, though it was obvious, and even was mentioned in the beginning of the arc.
 
Jun 14, 2014 4:41 PM

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KAAARRRRSSSSS!

Great episode. Kars was fabulous and treacherous like any good villain should be.
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Jul 20, 2014 7:24 PM
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Been a while since I last watched JoJo's, and episodes like this remind me why I like JoJo's.
"I have blue eyes, blonde hair... uhhhh... gatling cannon..." My smile's fanbase... maybe...
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Aug 9, 2014 7:09 PM

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Oh hello no. I'm with JoJo, I loathe Kars.
Also, like others have mentioned, how the story treated Lisa Lisa is appalling.

fluffybunnyboy said:
Redfoxoffire said:
I don't like this turn of events. Why does the one tough female character have to be immediately downgraded to damsel in distress status? I know the show is about macho men, but that's kind of insulting.

"Kind of" is an understatement. ^^;;;

But, Araki has said that it was considered taboo to have fighting women in shonen manga in the 80's, and he personally did not really warm up to that idea until about the time of Stone Ocean, which was about a decade later.

Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Here I was thinking that this show was surprisingly modern about female characters fighting, but nope. It was no different from the standards of the time. It's not surprising, considering that Shonen Jump is pretty unwilling to have badass female fighters even today. Sigh. I feel so bummed about Lisa Lisa's treatment. I wouldn't have felt this disappointed if we weren't told she was incredibly strong in the first place. But to be told that and to have Lisa Lisa's rightful fight be taken away so cruelly...

I don't blame Araki, but I hope Stone Ocean rectifies this. Seriously.
Modified by CookieBun, Aug 9, 2014 7:17 PM
 
Aug 12, 2014 4:47 AM

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WUUUUT? So we can't see Lisa Lisa have a proper fight? Wow really didnt expect her to went down so quickly. ( I know its not her fault) Really want to see her having a full length duel dammit
 
Aug 12, 2014 9:34 AM
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CookieBun said:
Oh hello no. I'm with JoJo, I loathe Kars.
Also, like others have mentioned, how the story treated Lisa Lisa is appalling.

fluffybunnyboy said:

"Kind of" is an understatement. ^^;;;

But, Araki has said that it was considered taboo to have fighting women in shonen manga in the 80's, and he personally did not really warm up to that idea until about the time of Stone Ocean, which was about a decade later.

Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Here I was thinking that this show was surprisingly modern about female characters fighting, but nope. It was no different from the standards of the time. It's not surprising, considering that Shonen Jump is pretty unwilling to have badass female fighters even today. Sigh. I feel so bummed about Lisa Lisa's treatment. I wouldn't have felt this disappointed if we weren't told she was incredibly strong in the first place. But to be told that and to have Lisa Lisa's rightful fight be taken away so cruelly...

I don't blame Araki, but I hope Stone Ocean rectifies this. Seriously.


Don't worry



It does.
 
Sep 13, 2014 5:09 PM

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German science saves the day.
 
Oct 4, 2014 9:51 PM

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Cars is a fucking cheater. He has no honor.. pathetic little bastard. He can't be compared to Wham. But it's undeniable that Cars is a great villain.

I was spoiled about Lisa Lisa's real identity so I'm not surprised but if I wasn't I'd be flipping right now.
 
Oct 19, 2014 9:45 AM
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Okay I get cars backstabbing Lisa Lisa dishonors Wham and further shows him to be the ultimate opponent for Jojo, but this was still an incredibly disappointing episode. I'm kinda upset they did Lisa Lisa like this. I have been waiting for soooo long to see her fight at full strength, being both Jojo's and Caesar's teacher. She could have been beaten in a better way. Is it because she's a female she doesn't get to actually fight? I hate the cliche Damsel in distress routine. I definitely don't like how this ended.
 
Oct 19, 2014 9:47 AM
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Shanks_Man said:
WUUUUT? So we can't see Lisa Lisa have a proper fight? Wow really didnt expect her to went down so quickly. ( I know its not her fault) Really want to see her having a full length duel dammit

exactly!
 
Dec 10, 2014 5:37 PM

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I had a fucking feeling that she was jojo's mother when she said she was that baby O_O
FEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK LIIIISSSAAAAA LIIIISSAAAAAA well she is still alive maybe ??? idk with this show XD
intense fucking episode I hope jojo bets the shit out of him next episode
[/quote]
 
Mar 24, 2015 3:12 PM

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Lisa Lisa is confirmed as Jojo's mother but if the viewer was paying attention it was revealed that his mother was the child that his grand parents saved on the ship since episode 10. I did not like the fact they she didn't get an opportunity to show her fighting ability and just became a damsel in distress.
 
May 15, 2015 4:43 AM

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Just when the situation got worse I thought about that german bastard and there he is.
 
May 20, 2015 11:06 PM

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I refuse to accept that the all-powerful ripple/hamon master got like one minute of a fight scene and was pretty much destroyed



._.;;;;;;;;;;;;
 
Jun 15, 2015 7:30 PM

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Man I wanted to see Lisa Lisa fight longer hottest milf.
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