| OMG i was doing a report for school on japanese vs american animetion when i found this jerk i mean seriously he should so get a life!! "Japanese anime is usually a very extreme case of limited animation. In anime, when one character is speaking, everything else on the screen will appear as if it has been frozen in time. The other characters will stand in the background like zombies. Even in the American version of this, you will often see that animators still pay attention to small details. Take a closer look and you will see characters blink their eyes and fidget in the background of a regular cartoon. Nobody really notices this when they see it, however the absence of it looks painstakingly clear in anime! Once again, animation is all about movement; even small movements add to the sense of realism. Only Americans seem to understand how important this really is. Perhaps it's because many of the old-time animators grew up in an era when all animation had to be drawn again and again by each individual frame. It was a time-consuming and endearing task, which was only made worth it from the satisfaction given by seeing the final product. It would seem that there's a self-imposed level of quality that American animators expect from themselves. American animators understand that animation is not just about telling a story -- it's about bringing it to life!" OMG seriously this is a part from it the whole thing is http://www.webspawner.com/users/animessay/ .......i hate this guy...-_-' |
| The sentance below is true the sentance above is false |
| Well, face it, there IS anime that is like that ^_^ Look at Violinist of Hamelin, that series is almost entirely still frames ^_^ (still a great series, too!) However, not ALL anime is like this, just like not all American animation is all about the details and quality. In any type you will find the good and the bad :) No need to get riled up! |
| Like Shoujo? Visit: Emily's Random Shoujo Manga Page |
| There will always be haters. |
| o.O ... sounds to me like it is all just his opinion, with no signs of research. Ah well... just ignore what he has to say, and don't let it get to you. |
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| I always find these comparisons amusing as they always reference Disney and they stopped traditional animation and went full CG a few years ago. While anime is a form of limited animation, you can bet he is comparing Disney movies with a regular anime series. People like this fail to take into account anime like Mononoke-Hime, Naussicaa of the Valley of the Wind and Spirited Away, which won an Academy Award and was only the second animated feature to win an Oscar. He sounds just like a girl in my class, I just tell her where she can go stick her Mickey Mouse. |
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| Must only watch what's on TV... |
| Let this guy drown in his own puddle of ignorance:P And I guess he hasn't watched any anime movies and Ova's? O_o |
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Asrialys said: Must only watch what's on TV... I agree on that. It's not possible he says such things about anime in general knowing it well. |
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| well, his email is at the bottom. go tell him to watch any work by KyoAni. I gotta say though, for some anime he's actually correct. but to generalize about all anime is pretty dumb. |
| Not a good site for your research. I'm sure the anime fans themselves aren't biased towards American cartoons. We all can analyze with a well written and well thought facts and opinions about each. Although I've never personally met anyone who's passionate with American toons over Japanese animations, each have their pros and cons. |
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| Show him 5 minutes of Gankutsuou or the BLAME! OVA, then ask him again how he feels about the visual production quality of anime. There are some horribly animated series out there, but to stereotype all of them is just ridiculous. |
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| lol My mom says that all anime is porn :P I know she's joking, but it's funny. I think she said that's what one of her friends said. |
| Anime is Porn Im sure that was in a newspaper somewhere. I remember reading the story on the net. |
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The Original Article said: Many anime fans have watched hundreds of hours of animes. Shocking.  He's more than entitled to his opinion, but I think it would work better if, somewhere in that lengthy diatribe, he could have mentioned the name of at least one specific anime. Plus, he's flat-out incorrect on a couple of facts, such as when he's talking about the history of anime. As stated earlier, more research needed. |
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| "Then we would be giving away our pride -- selling out one of the few proud things that we can say was made in America. No, we must do things our own way!" Are you sure this essay isn't a joke? o.o |
edge_666 said: Anime is Porn Im sure that was in a newspaper somewhere. I remember reading the story on the net. Wasn't that like after the australian imports lolicon oh shi- event? |
Xinil said: There will always be haters. |
| I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions. Don't take it too personally fantasy254. |
| rofl, now I know what anime has been missing this whole time! Characters blinking and fidgeting in the background! It was bugging me, but now I've finally figured it out. [/sarcasm] |
| Hmm. I personally don't think general animation quality really has much to do with the country it was made in. The biggest difference is in style really. |
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Ceray said: Xinil said: There will always be haters. |
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cyruz said: Ceray said: Xinil said: There will always be haters. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I was going to quote that again... but it's being overused lol.. Instead I'll quote one of his sentences... "It seems to me, that most animes are missing This guy's on crack, period.the plot twists, variety, and suspense that make American series fun to watch. It's all too linear and predictable." |
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| Wow so this guy did a whole essay on anime? Why didn't they have this at my school? |
last.fm 
Siing said: cyruz said: Ceray said: Xinil said: There will always be haters. Kayrhandros said: This guy's on crack, period. |
| Heh... there are just as many American cartoons that do the exact same thing, and if he goes to any western cartoon earlier than 1999ish, he'll see the exact damn thing. Maybe he's referring to Disney animation stuff? Because in that case... movies > series, always, and movie budget > anime series budget x 300 |
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| im a bit calmer....lol this dude is probably one heck of a devoted american...like the american dude from yu-gi-oh...( if you have seen yu-gi-oh abridged) |
| The sentance below is true the sentance above is false |
| well. most time its exactly the opposide of what he said. But however you try to avoid the fact, he's right in some points. TV Series Animations are not that good these days, but he goes way to far with saying "The other characters will stand in the background like zombies.". Maybe he just watched Anime from the 90s (80s?) like Dragonball Z. |
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American animators understand that animation is not just about telling a story -- it's about bringing it to life!"  And that's all I have to say. |
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| *Walks straight up to the guy and punches him in the face* I don't need words |
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| By example is just as unfounded as many of his (strong) opinions. |
BadSeafood said: American animators understand that animation is not just about telling a story -- it's about bringing it to life!" And that's all I have to say. LOL! I dont think this guy knows what he's talking about, or he might just be very... "proud" of his country, although i dont see why... (obviously im talking about the guy who wote the article, not BadSeaFood) |
| They are everywhere, you can't stop them... |
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Chelle said: Siing said: cyruz said: Ceray said: Xinil said: There will always be haters. Kayrhandros said: This guy's on crack, period. |
| | Suikoden Fan Club[/right] |
ViM said: Wow so this guy did a whole essay on anime? Why didn't they have this at my school? i dont exactly think that he did this for a school essay i think he did it just because. |
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BadSeafood said: American animators understand that animation is not just about telling a story -- it's about bringing it to life!" And that's all I have to say. WOW!! that is some serious eye candy. /sarcasm |
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| who cares that the others blink their eye... omg |
| Ah well...hes probably not exposed to enough animes, or those he watched happened to be that. Some even have all the other background characters just made into white silhouttes, guess thats what gave him the idea. Although really, that all just goes down to how much budget the companies have. |
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| Don't let that guy get to you. Actually, even though his facts clearly state that american anime is better than japan anime, it is evident that he only stated the many flaws of japanese anime. Suppose he was to present this evidence to a judge. I would say that his probability of convincing the judge that american anime is better, and that japanese anime is nothing more than trash, he would have a 10% chance of doing so. His mind is clearly thinking of how american anime is great, meaning he's bias. And another thing is that the proof he shows are only facts with his own opinion, and there is no survey on which proves how his opinion about this is true. Another thing is that he only showed a minimum amount of flaws for the american anime, which makes his evidence and conclusion completely wrong. If he wanted to prove that american anime is better than japanese ones, he should conduct his observation with a more favorable and and better evidence, not just his opinion. So there, I have shown you that his essay is not completely true. Though this is not as long as what he wrote, I still proved some flaws of his essay and how his opinion is stated there. Don't let him get to you, he's just bias! And plus, anime started in japan!! If anime didn't start in japan, then there wouldn't have been any american anime! If you want to ask me anything about this, please do so. |
Smile, you look way better that way!! ^_^  |
| ARRGRRGRHGGHGGH I WISHED I NEVER READ THIS THREAD! (caps lock to emphasise frustration of course) OP said: "Japanese anime is usually a very extreme case of limited animation. In anime, when one character is speaking, everything else on the screen will appear as if it has been frozen in time. The other characters will stand in the background like zombies. Every anime I've seen since reading this thread I'm always checking the background characters to see if they move or not, which I previously didn't. It gets on my nerves now to see motionless background characters. |
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| Ugh, a personal opinion piece, without any actual references and proper research, passing off as an academic essay? Please... If the first title of their thesis goes "Where to Begin? Where to be Going?", there's not much hope for them to produce something that's coherent and intelligent later in the piece... EDIT: And there's a link to another opinion piece about "Les Triplets de Belleville"... http://www.webspawner.com/users/animessay/animationdoneright.html which they acknowledge to be "animation done right"... Yes, and is it American? ;P And, quoting him directly "Given the dozens of emails I receive from closet-case anime zealots who proclaim that I am some kind of jingoistic gung-ho Yankee racist, some might be curious as to why I am reviewing a foreign film. I admit that I am a nationalist, a patriot, a man who feels he has a right to be proud of his country, and yet far less culturally-deprived than these close-minded individuals assume. " Hmm, pot calling the kettle black there? lol |
SeerQueenNov 6, 2007 3:16 AM
OmegaJudgement said: ARRGRRGRHGGHGGH I WISHED I NEVER READ THIS THREAD! (caps lock to emphasise frustration of course) OP said: "Japanese anime is usually a very extreme case of limited animation. In anime, when one character is speaking, everything else on the screen will appear as if it has been frozen in time. The other characters will stand in the background like zombies. Every anime I've seen since reading this thread I'm always checking the background characters to see if they move or not, which I previously didn't. It gets on my nerves now to see motionless background characters. heh heh srry i just got so mad at the stupid person that i just felt like posting it... |
| The sentance below is true the sentance above is false |
| While he is somewhat right, he fails to understand a few things: Anime unlike garbage american cartoons, are often long running and contain serious plots. Thus, animators have to do what they can to sinc episodes with chapters,and keep the flow at reasonable pace if its based on a manga. Anime series that are +20 episodes will usually have episodes that vary in animation quality... I don't think he realizes how poorly drawn most american cartoons are in comparison to anime...The only cartoons that actually involve complex humanoid characters are often things like Justice League... |
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| poor stupid hater... i just choose to ignore it. Besides animation quality has NOTHING to do with the country its made in. So there. |
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| honestly i dont really care what people say about anime. i'm not gonna defend it because usually i watch for storyline, not necessarily animation. if i watched for animation marmalade boy would not be my favorite anime ever. but i agree with omegajudgement ... now everytime i watch a series i'm going to be watching the background characters to see if they move x-x since i personally dont notice those things... in american cartoons or anime... |
| 5 Centimeters Per Second. |
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| I have no problem at all with someone making an argument for one point of view and reasoning out your logic. This, on the face of it, is just that. But actually, there's no logic here at all. The guy's not just a patriot, he's an american supremacist - a racist, basically. In tone and technique, this is just like the idiocy dressed as reason you read in extremist political propaganda. It pisses me off enough that I've gone through the whole thing pulling out the most ridiculous and spurious bits and taking them apart. I'll focus on the problems with what he says, or the most glaring ones at least (this could take days otherwise) and ignore the details of the rampant grammar mistakes, poor readability and generally low standard of English that does just as much to discredit him and make him look ignorant as his many factual mistakes (or maybe they're attempts at purposeful misinformation). The fool that wrote the essay said: Take another perspective, and you'll see that the cut-throat constraints which American animation producers face can actually help the quality of their animation, because they are always forced to work under the constant threat of being "canned". Yeeeees, the anime industry, and Japan in general, is really known for its relaxed attitude and laid-back work ethic. That's surely why Japan's is the second largest economy on Earth. That's surely why anime studio output is so much more prolific than the US output. The fool that wrote the essay said: The need for these drawings was probably brought about by a certain trait in Japanese culture, which modern-day psychologists might call an "attention deficit disorder". The solution for this was to entice their people with certain visual stimuli. This became a useful tool for those in power, since they could use it to leverage control over the public Orientalism and racism. This is a phenomenon seen in every culture that ever developed a mass communication culture (i.e. a printing press). The primary motivation was widespread illiteracy, anyway, common in all cultures at this level of development. And isn't US media right now the apotheosis of what he accuses Japan of here? ADD my arse. The fool that wrote the essay said: After World War II, Japan went through an identity crisis; they began stealing stuff like mad from our Western civilization -- which still continues to this day. It seems that they have become the "United States wanna-be". ...except the bit where the emperor adopted western governmental styles at the end of the 19th century, and the bit where the US occupation forcibly altered a lot of Japan's basic infrastructure to match western norms (Gen. MacArthur is on record as considering Japan his own "pygmalion" while he was in charge of the occupation), the bit where the Japanese people, looking for alternatives to the militaristic culture of the war years turned to the nearest other influence, the occupying troops, and of course the bit where the US is itself undeniably the world's biggest melting pot of world cultures, or to put it as he does, guilty of far more "stealing" than the rest of the world combined. The fool that wrote the essay said: It boggles my mind how many Americans today prefer a cheap imitation over something that is real and genuine. They say that Japanese anime is of better quality and looks better than our own animation. In doing so, they have overlooked a pearl that is much closer to home. The truth is that American animation has so much more to offer, that anime simply pales in comparison. I take it this guy drives a Model T Ford then? Because obviously the Toyotas and Nissans that people all over the world rely on are not real and genuine by his standards, just pale imitations. Just because the first major advances in animation occurred in the US does not mean animators in another country are not capable of surpassing them, just as the US car industry has been eclipsed by their Japanese equivalents. The fool that wrote the essay said: The problem of course is that it is not as easy to produce something as distinguishable using curves as it is with sharp lines. This makes Japanese animation a lot easier to produce than American animation. The Japanese are able to highlight the details that are important by their usage of actual lines, whereas the American animators must focus on the picture as a whole. This is called efficiency. The art does the same job better, letting you spend less time fooling around with silhouettes. This is why Japanese animation was able to become so widespread. Of course, I'll ignore his total disregard of the far greater variety of art styles in anime compared to western animation, some of which is very curve-based indeed. The fool that wrote the essay said: In this case, your mind is telling you that there is something very wrong about the picture. No, your mind is simply following the visual instructions that the picture gives out. The fact that the art style is comparatively more easily discerned is not a bad thing by any standard at all. You might as well say that some legendary portrait artists are right and others are wrong. The fool that wrote the essay said: It should also be noted that the root definition of the word "animation" stems from a Celtic word which means "to be life-like". May I also note, that up until modern times, this concept was so foreign to the Japanese that they did not even have a word for it in their vocabulary. That is why they had to borrow the word "anime" from the French. Just wrong. "Animation" is from "anima", Latin for "life" - NOT lifeLIKE. The root describes the subject as seeming to have a kind of life because it is moving, not as lifelike. And as everyone who has bothered to find out about basic Japanese knows, "anime" is a abbreviated phonetic Japanisation of the English word "animation", not French at all. Why should the Japanese have a word for something foreign? They have no native word for "Door" or "Pen" either - they must be illiterate savages from the caves. The fool that wrote the essay said: However, the anticipation technique is usually very subtle when you're watching it because it blends so seamlessly and naturally with the animation. "Subtle" is definitely not the word. "Predictable" might be better. All animation creates its own version of reality, and this is one conception of that process. You've heard the term "Cartoon physics" - that means western animation, not anime. While western animation makes their animation that bit further removed from the familiar world by inventing their own laws of physics, anime uses techniques like action lines that work with viewers expectations of what is possible and ape real visual effects such as motion blur. Anime action scenes seem much more lifelike because of this than western animation based on anticipation, at least to me. The fool that wrote the essay said: Why is it that people can watch as little as five minutes of American animation and still find it entertaining, but it is not so for Japanese anime? Because they're racists? Or because much more US animation is designed to be watched like that, while most anime is designed as episodic series, and asking this is like expecting watching five random minutes of, I dunno, Lost to be as entertaining as Tom and Jerry? The fool that wrote the essay said: While you may be thinking that you've seen this sort of stuff in American animation as well, the difference is that American storywriters usually add more to spice it up. For instance, there might be a few scenes of comic relief mixed in here and there. Also, an American cartoon might be bound to a simple rule that the good guys must always win in the end, but how they win is a different story. In different episodes, the good guys will win through different means, not just fighting. That's called ingenuity! Most entertaiment nowadays is based on formulae. If you have asinine rules in your formula like the good guys always win, you're doomed. Generally, anime does not. Not only does anime vary its methods at least as much as western animation, anime sometimes doesn't have clearly defined "good guys" or "bad guys" at all (because it intends to be ambiguous or writes its protagonists as antiheroes, not because it lacks sophistication), and sometimes a single shout is the closest a series comes to a fight. THAT is ingenuity. Do not tar the likes of Bokurano or Kare Kano with the brush of Dragonball (and so far as I know, not even in Dragonball did the good guys always win). And hey, anime has no comic relief. I didn't know that. I've been laughing my arse off at what I so naively took to be comic relief in a fair chunk of the serious anime I see for over 10 years by my estimation, and that's news to me. The fool that wrote the essay said: Another question I have to ask, is why are characters' emotions displayed so blatantly in Japanese anime? Does everything have to be spelled out to the viewers, as if they are little kids? To me, western cartoon characters have always lacked much emotional impact, while anime characters are much better on this front. Think of any of the iconic western animated characters. How many different facial expressions do they have? I bet you can count them on your fingers, probably on one hand. This broad spectrum of emotions is anime's equivalent of "cartoon physics" - "face faults" and the like forming a visual language that exaggerates reality. However, this acts to address a side of animation that western animation never does. A language is much more effectively used to communicate complicated concepts like emotions than simpler things like basic motions. Furthermore, this man has not heard of Honne and Tatemae (True intent and facade) as a central part of Japanese culture. In anime, an action can visibly be exaggerated to conceal an intention that is contrary; that this can be done shows how this is a much more complex and capable 'visual language' than western cartoons can boast. The fool that wrote the essay said: How about all the pop-culture references made in American cartoons, but left out of Japanese animes? In my opinion, Japanese idiosyncrasies and folklore are no substitutions for this. The two thousand plus years of Japanese history, the unique language and cultural background - as well as the many, many Japanese pop culture references this guy either dismisses as rubbish or misses because he wrongly assumes they're the same as US pop culture references, but in a different language - is as nothing compared to the splendour of US pop culture. Uh-huh. This is simply racist ignorance. The fool that wrote the essay said: It touches subjects like death which a lot of American cartoons don't. This does not make it better in any logical sense. This should not even be an issue. What really matters is plot and character development. Some anime is like western animation in that it's primarily for kids. The majority, however, is designed for an older audience than the majority of western animation. Some anime is for mature adults; some is serious dramatic filmmaking, comparable with hollywood drama, while some includes the adult animated film industry - what we know as hentai. Naturally, everything designed for people older than kids absolutely needs more complex or adult subject matter than western animation, which generally is not for anyone but kids; it doesn't make it better any more than an articulated truck having more wheels than a car makes it better - it's a matter of necessity, because what it does is different and has different requirements. And how dare someone trumpeting the glories of the US entertainment industry talk about plot and character development, the thing which that particular industry is least good at. The fool that wrote the essay said: There you have it. I have shown you the strengths of American animation, and I've pointed out many flaws with the anime style used in Japanese animation. No. You've given no examples, no sources and spun something that I'll charitably call full of factual errors through your immense nationalist bias, passed it off as objective, and you expect that to be a convincing argument. Which it is very far from being. I also note you're not confident enough to even sign your name. |
| First off, I like Anime & Western Cartoons. I grew up primarily on Western Cartoons and well, my list speaks for itself on how much I like anime. For the most part, I believe YourMessageHere is right about "The fool that wrote the essay." "YourMessageHere" said: I have to disagree with you on this subject. I think western cartoons have much more of a broader spectrum of styles. You have shows like Doug, Family Guy, The Simpsons, Ren & Stimpy, South Park, Gumby, G.I. Joe, Disney's Snow White, Lilo & Stitch, The Looney Tunes, Invader Zim, and dozens more which are no way alike besides being animated. While Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Darker than BLACK, Gundam, Trinity Blood, Serei no Moribito, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Naruto, Bleach, and so on that are all similar depicting semi-realistic people with over-sized eyes and special effects. Then there are all the 50's styled ones like Astro Boy & Cyborg 009 and the 70's/80's saw their own style but a similar though less quality to that of today. Finally the fully realistic ones like Jin-Roh & Perfect Blue. Sure there are small differences, if you watch enough anime you can discern where a character is from or at least if they're not in an anime you've seen but all the western cartoons I mentioned would find themselves very hard to hide in each others cartoon worlds. You have to admit that anime in general follows a certain style and while some break from the mold most stay in it. Its practically guaranteed that if the cartoon comes from a different studio its going to look worlds different from another.Of course, I'll ignore his total disregard of the far greater variety of art styles in anime compared to western animation, some of which is very curve-based indeed. "YourMessageHere" said: Your both wrong:Just wrong. "Animation" is from "anima", Latin for "life" - NOT lifeLIKE. The root describes the subject as seeming to have a kind of life because it is moving, not as lifelike. And as everyone who has bothered to find out about basic Japanese knows, "anime" is a abbreviated phonetic Japanization of the English word "animation", not French at all. Origin: 1590–1600; 1910–15 for def. 4; (< MF) < L animātiōn- (s. of animātiō a bestowing of life) "Animation." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 09 Nov. 2007. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Animation>. Also, its kind of unrelated but "anime" is French for cartoon. Although, Dictionary.com says your right that its a borrowed word from English. "YourMessageHere" said: Well I can count more than a hands worth of expressions for Scooby-Doo, Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, Alvin and the Chipmunks, Woody & Buzz Lightyear, Bambi, G.I. Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Batman, Superman, and so on. Although the more cartoony ones had the greater range of facial distortion I still think that western animation certainly provides a level of emotion that is easily discernible. My problem with your argument ends there because I have no idea what "Honne and Tatemae" is and cannot pull up any examples of it from either western animation nor anime. If you could provide some examples it could be a real help for me.To me, western cartoon characters have always lacked much emotional impact, while anime characters are much better on this front. Think of any of the iconic western animated characters. How many different facial expressions do they have? I bet you can count them on your fingers, probably on one hand. This broad spectrum of emotions is anime's equivalent of "cartoon physics" - "face faults" and the like forming a visual language that exaggerates reality. However, this acts to address a side of animation that western animation never does. A language is much more effectively used to communicate complicated concepts like emotions than simpler things like basic motions. Furthermore, this man has not heard of Honne and Tatemae (True intent and facade) as a central part of Japanese culture. In anime, an action can visibly be exaggerated to conceal an intention that is contrary; that this can be done shows how this is a much more complex and capable 'visual language' than western cartoons can boast. Besides that you hit most arguments spot on. |
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omnomnom said: crap essay. he generalizes about all anime in every section. obviously biased he probably hasnt watch much anime anyway, and probably knows very little about it, so his opinion is worthless. i hate ignorant people WTF!!! you just read my mind lol Other than that this guy should keep this to himself and not say bad things about other things he doesnt know about. This is 1 of the many traits of stupid ppl, not understanding what you see that is strange or unfamiliar. This guy is annoying just ignore what hurts us anime fans here though if I was given the chance I would definitely beat the living hell out of him... |
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