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Poll: Robotics;Notes Episode 20 Discussion


Mar 9, 2013 7:03 AM

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MasterMeNL said:
Aki's speech was just lame, I could only facepalm myself.
*Gun pointed at you* "Hur dur I likez robots!"
This could've been so much better if it had been more serious from the start. The OP should've been more serious and the general art style should've been as well. I also think that the direction could've been better.
To me it feels like it's only starting, I'm about to be able to take this seriously but this is supposed to be the epic "last battle"...

Still You have to agree that, no matter what stupid it was, the speech kind of fit her. I predict that this series won't end wrong, no matter what...

Well, it may be realistic for those small socities, that's something I can't say for sure - but it's still pretty much lame. And I WAS interested in this series, I still am, but it probably deserved a better adaptation - can't tell, since I haven't played the VN.
One thing I'm sure of: it'd be much better if it had more IMPACTOOOOOOOOOOO!
 
Mar 9, 2013 7:12 AM

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Getting near to the end ; i enjoyed this episode a lot : we learned about why Misa is doing the crappy job for Kimijima Kou and seriously there gonna upgrade GunPro-1 can't wait to see.
Favorite part of the episode : Airi get out of the plane Kona reaction OMG epic...
 
Mar 9, 2013 8:55 AM

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Nisheeth said:
Lets start from the beginning.
And just how could she have proven that he was the bad guy? And then there's the factor of guilt. Even if he was the bad guy, killing is going to scar the mind.
He tried to blackmail her, and she didn't give in. She lost to him when he was about to reveal that she was a murderer to Aki and Kai (I think that's what it meant).

At what point does 'Let's kill millions of people' (and everyone know it)- make more sense than 'Have everyone find out I killed one to save lives?' She gave in. She's stupid. She already moved the body (probably was told to she's so stupid), and only has to fear video. There was a girl held hostage in the whole time too (Airi). Just stupid.

Nisheeth said:
Why doesn't Kimijima stop the broadcast? I think he is a cliché villain. All the points you raise for his stupidity are tropes. I don't remember the name of those, but you can go look through TV Tropes.

Tropes have nothing to do with stupid- they are writing conventions. You can use a trope to make an average character seem intelligent. Likewise, If someone 'writes out' their own character's intelligence- that's on the writer too.

Nisheeth said:
No comment about the parrot.

What? I was sure that was the most clever twist in this serious story. What S;G, C;H or R;N virtual Novel point could validate that behavior! Someone must know why a 6 oz bird can disarm a gun!
No- seriously- don't blame you.

Nisheeth said:
Desperate times call for desperate measures? They don't have time to start from scratch, so they decide to work on a complete robot and make it work.

They started from scratch supposedly because they couldn't make the first one work. At all. That's the point.

Nisheeth said:
I will say that the one stopping the suit is Kimijima, and that's why she can't kill herself.

I was being sarcastic. I won't ask 'Why' if she had the conviction to kill herself she put on the suit at all- because that would make her _more_ stupid.

Nisheeth said:
No comment on the landing. Was wonderimg who the pilot was.

Sure it's in the VN somewhere... No sense writing like this is a new audience.

Nisheeth said:
Time, too little? That's what I was wondering in the last episode. How would they manage to complte the robot in time? The added manpower will certainly help.

If 'too many cooks spoil the soup', what do you think too many 'untrained assistants' would do? Oh wait, my bad- not 'soup'- giant robot with new technology retrofit- entirely different. They should bring pets too- make it even faster because that's how useful most of those people are going to be.

Nisheeth said:
The software: Notice the name? DG297 3Rd EDITION ver. 4.11. Now remember Daru from Stien's;Gate, and how he gave names to gadgets?

Naming aside, I was talking about writing in plot devices as 'instant solutions' to problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

Nisheeth said:
That wave projecter device is a newer version of NOAH from Chaos;Head.

Again, alternate story reference aside, I was talking about writing in plot devices as 'instant solutions' to problems. In particular the 'usability' of this device. It;s basically a 'projector' (like at the movies) but 3D. Where does the 'Movie content' Kai might use come from? That's my point. 3D movies have to be shot with 2 cameras or 'hand adjusted'- and those are just watched from one perspective. Any new 3D data for this would need to be shot from 2-4 minimum- 4 if it needs to be viewed from any angle- and that could have 'holes', depending on the object. Point is you probably don't just 'analyze' something like this real quick and use it without a manual.

Nisheeth said:
The principal, and food. Nothing to explain.

Yes, any convenient event can happen 'just cause'. One video of debatable content and everyone both knows it, is transformed and has to act immediately, unprompted, and not even knowing if anyone is at the hangar! This is why cell phones work! Notice how they remembered the concept & finally texted Subaru- who's been a shut-in because he has to do what daddy wants... oh, right- 'screw it' he says and trots of to the place where no one might be...

Nisheeth said:
Again, desperate times call for desperate measures? They don't have time. At all. With added manpower, they can have multiple people working on multiple parts, while those people from JAXA, Subaru and Aki tell them what to do.

The engineers can use 1 helper each- maybe. In the robotics ckub only two people actually know robotics- maybe they can each use one. In all other respects everything else is either 'giant', or 'robotics', and beyond anyone else's understanding.

Nisheeth said:
She has been trying to resist the supersuit. Like constantly. That's why she was barely able to let him go.

No- Kimijima should not be attacking him if he's a 'hostage'- that's the whole point of a 'hostage'- to keep them 'safe' as a 'control/insurance'. Why do they make him this 'master manipulator', then forget the basics? Kamijina is so stupid, did I mention?

Nisheeth said:
Sister Centipede; Is that a translation of Geji-ne? I think I preferrd not knowing.

You got me...

Also, 'Fight Club' had better secrecy policies than the 'secret society' 300.
Just sayin'
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 9, 2013 8:57 AM

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Nothing to complain about it's all going as planned
even the parrot :3
 
 
Mar 9, 2013 9:05 AM

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1lau said:
Nothing to complain about it's all going as planned
even the parrot :3


Not to be mean, but- If ONLY for the parrot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking#Reflective_thought
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
 
Mar 9, 2013 9:34 AM

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I kind of wonder: Was there any hint in any previous episode that hinted that the parrot could do something like what we saw in this episode? That is go and cause disturbance at Airi so that she drops the gun even without its master's giving the order.

And how did Kimijima took over Misa-nee's body? By the suit? Or some hypnosis?

And something about the previous episode: Still don't know why Kimijima thought it necessary to project Misa-nee running and leaping into a robot inside the Expo. How not just got the robot to move by itself?
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Mar 9, 2013 10:01 AM

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I'll address two points you make, bloggbigg, because the others I either partially agree with, think it's still to early to know for sure, or just disagree.

bloggbigg said:
Nisheeth said:
The software: Notice the name? DG297 3Rd EDITION ver. 4.11. Now remember Daru from Stien's;Gate, and how he gave names to gadgets?

Naming aside, I was talking about writing in plot devices as 'instant solutions' to problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

Nisheeth said:
That wave projecter device is a newer version of NOAH from Chaos;Head.

Again, alternate story reference aside, I was talking about writing in plot devices as 'instant solutions' to problems. In particular the 'usability' of this device. It;s basically a 'projector' (like at the movies) but 3D. Where does the 'Movie content' Kai might use come from? That's my point. 3D movies have to be shot with 2 cameras or 'hand adjusted'- and those are just watched from one perspective. Any new 3D data for this would need to be shot from 2-4 minimum- 4 if it needs to be viewed from any angle- and that could have 'holes', depending on the object. Point is you probably don't just 'analyze' something like this real quick and use it without a manual.


These plot devices can't be considered Deus ex Machina because they're already established elements of this series' world, even if introduced in other animes. Daru is a good guy who knows programming and has fought against conspiracies before. Noah is a machine that can take illusions from an individual brain and turn them into reality. Both have been explained, detailed and exemplified in previous parts of the Science Adventure series, and if we had to do that again, we'd either use all the time to do it in a way that makes sense, or just throw a random exposition monologue (and everybody hates those) that would kill the possibility of any twists.

But even if you won't accept that, I would still say that they can't be said to be Deus ex Machina:
The program is, as far as we know, just a new code to control the robot. It could have easily been made by Frau herself, since she's been basically doing nothing for quite some time, but they decided to have it be Daru's work.
Noah IV was used by Misa/The Committee, and explained, although briefly, by Sawada, so it's already established as an element in this particular show as well. Kai can use it without much problem (from a storytelling perspective), because we already know that it exists and what it does.

And I don't think you understand Chaos;Head at all...
 
Mar 9, 2013 10:14 AM

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symbv said:
I kind of wonder: Was there any hint in any previous episode that hinted that the parrot could do something like what we saw in this episode? That is go and cause disturbance at Airi so that she drops the gun even without its master's giving the order.


I don't think so. I could be wrong though.

And how did Kimijima took over Misa-nee's body? By the suit? Or some hypnosis?


It could be any of those, or both, really. We know he can both control her suit AND brainwash her, not to mention blackmail and things like that. There's also Noah technology, and who knows what else.

And something about the previous episode: Still don't know why Kimijima thought it necessary to project Misa-nee running and leaping into a robot inside the Expo. How not just got the robot to move by itself?


Well, he wanted to distract Sawada / Kai / whoever else could mess with his plans. He needed Misa to get to the launching site, and Sawada, Kai and Aki wanted to get to Misa. So Kimijima gave them a fake Misa while the real one was moving away.
 
Mar 9, 2013 11:57 AM
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1. How can he be "in" her? Does she have a mechanical brain? If he's in the suit, why did she ever start wearing the suit?

2. Furugoori is annoying as shit. If I wanted a Furugoori I'd just go to Youtube or some other place full of meme spouters.
 
Mar 9, 2013 12:00 PM

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wailofthebanshee said:
If I wanted a Furugoori I'd just go to Youtube or some other place full of meme spouters.
Well, at least I find myself learning 2ch meme faster by watching this anime than go digging at youtube (where I kind of doubt you can find much 2ch meme there unless you drill deep into the comment section)
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Mar 9, 2013 12:54 PM

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Kona saved the last EP, honestly.
 
Mar 9, 2013 1:33 PM

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When Aki gave the speech...

I simply cannot take her seriously... At all... I wonder if the VA found it embarrassing spitting those pretentious lines...


...... I don't even know what's going on anymore... Why is Airi acting like that? Why is Misaki trying to kill 5 billion while not wanting to kill 5 billion? Kimijima Kou, what the fuck is wrong with him?

Biggest question... Who the fuck wrote this story? This is like seeing my little ponies giving friendship is magic speech in Fate/Zero...
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Mar 9, 2013 2:01 PM

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the plot of this show has been SO disappointing
 
Mar 9, 2013 2:12 PM

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Tulicloure said:
I'll address two points you make, bloggbigg, because the others I either partially agree with, think it's still to early to know for sure, or just disagree.

Fair enough...

Tulicloure said:
These plot devices can't be considered Deus ex Machina because they're already established elements of this series' world, even if introduced in other animes. Daru is a good guy who knows programming and has fought against conspiracies before. Noah is a machine that can take illusions from an individual brain and turn them into reality. Both have been explained, detailed and exemplified in previous parts of the Science Adventure series, and if we had to do that again, we'd either use all the time to do it in a way that makes sense, or just throw a random exposition monologue (and everybody hates those) that would kill the possibility of any twists.

A reasonable point.
Except...
They only marginally demonstrated 'Universe cohesiveness' until what- 17? At that point the _entire_cocohesiveness_tie-in_ could in a sense, be considered Deus Ex Machina. Imagine them saying 'this story isn't resolving well, wish I could use some C;H tech to fix it...'. Of course, we'll assume they didn't do that- but even so we still have a 'what are the odds' conundrum where 'coincidence' is clearly design.

Tulicloure said:
But even if you won't accept that, I would still say that they can't be said to be Deus ex Machina:
The program is, as far as we know, just a new code to control the robot. It could have easily been made by Frau herself, since she's been basically doing nothing for quite some time, but they decided to have it be Daru's work.

I don't see this- Frau is supposedly pretty uber. You could be right, but that makes less sense than a new Deus Ex Device.

Tulicloure said:
Noah IV was used by Misa/The Committee, and explained, although briefly, by Sawada, so it's already established as an element in this particular show as well. Kai can use it without much problem (from a storytelling perspective), because we already know that it exists and what it does.

And I don't think you understand Chaos;Head at all...


You may be right on both counts, but in the first case- Noah II created delusions which _became_ reality (something Noah IV doesn't seem to be doing at all), not to mention Noah II filled a room and made the user a god. The backpack remotes were another story altogether- but they were just that- remotes-- but if the _really had C;H tech, a lot of this 'cause chaos' through smoke & mirrors nonsense would be unneeded- Noah II could do it easily.

In the second case- C:H is convoluted existential rubbish which denied it's own premise. Sorry- I wanted to like it, but it bored & irritated me. I'm ok with possibly missing some detail therin- but I think in this case, the current use of 'Noah Tech' is some weird derivative of the original- so much so to be called a successor in name alone- and likely just a tie-in McGuffin- especially since there should be no way the enemies have no countermeasure for their own device.
And it's not like they shouldn't know he has it either- so he should be ineffective or dead.

Also, I considered the Noah IV device to be 'new tech' because all illusions thus far have been completely illusory, and are viewed through the Iru-O tech (for whatever reason)- which theoretically makes them digital/3D. I may have gotten this wrong, but the writers were not as clear with their use of this 'tech' either.

Well- I guess on reflection there are actually 2 techs at play here, (Iru-o, Illusory Misaki), but the point stands, Fake Illusion vs Bending reality.

But I could be wrong.
Modified by bloggbigg, Mar 9, 2013 3:37 PM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
 
Mar 9, 2013 2:23 PM

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Can anyone please tell me if you know what the theme is called in this episode between the time frame of 12:03-13:45?
 
 
Mar 9, 2013 4:21 PM

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bloggbigg said:


You may be right on both counts, but in the first case- Noah II created delusions which _became_ reality (something Noah IV doesn't seem to be doing at all), not to mention Noah II filled a room and made the user a god. The backpack remotes were another story altogether- but they were just that- remotes.

In the second case- C:H is convoluted existential rubbish which denied it's own premise. Sorry- I wanted to like it, but it bored & irritated me. I'm ok with possibly missing some detail therin- but I think in this case, the current use of 'Noah Tech' is some weird derivative of the original- so much so to be called a successor in name alone- and likely just a tie-in McGuffin- especially since there should be no way the enemies have no countermeasure for their own device.
And it's not like they shouldn't know he has it either- so he should be ineffective or dead.

Also, I considered the Noah IV device to be 'new tech' because all illusions thus far have been completely illusory, and are viewed through the Iru-O tech (for whatever reason)- which theoretically makes them digital/3D. I may have gotten this wrong, but the writers were not as clear with their use of this 'tech' either.
Well- I guess on reflection there are 2 techs at play here, (Illusory Misaki), but the point stands, Complete illusion vs Bending reality.

But I could be wrong.


You make some good arguments. But I'm not so sure of the power difference between the remotes and the main machine. It's even possible that, as many people here seem to believe, the box Kai has is actually a pocket version of the entire Noah IV device (which would be really stupid, to be honest).

I may be wrong here, but I believe the Iru-O illusion thing is another technology entirely. That seemed to have only visual effects, and even then, only when viewed through the device's screen. Kimijima's and AI-Airi's "bodies", Gunvarrel visual for GunPro-2 and the cat virtual costume for Aki work roughly the same way, from what I understand. This is different from the illusory Misa that distracted Sawada, Kai and Aki, which was actually there and could be seen by anyone.

And I take back my statement: you do understand Chaos;Head. Well, at least as much as it's possible... =P
 
Mar 9, 2013 5:56 PM

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Tulicloure said:

Thanks. Good idea with the spoiler.
In C;H, the backpack remotes were just range extenders for Noah II best I could tell. They were like wireless speakers- but for altering reality instead of making sound. If, by name- Noah IV is a miniaturized Noah II- I agree that would be... yes- stupid is a good description.

You're right about the Iru-O thing, it is a separate thing- but the illusory Misa was not 'actually there'- it was just 'visible to all'. Noah II made things that were 'actually there', and could actually interact/cause damage. Illusory Misaki couldn't stop a bullet, and is supposedly just a 'naked eye illusion' (which is really retarded for a slew of reasons- the least of which is it's a leap backward).

Thanks- though considering C;H- that's not saying too much! (^_^)
Modified by bloggbigg, Mar 9, 2013 6:07 PM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 9, 2013 7:57 PM

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Well, that explains Misaki's seemingly inexplicable betrayal of everyone she cared for. Mr. Kimijima is far more ruthless than I thought, though having preserved his consciousness into a vast network of his own making gives him the unprecedented leeway to do that.

It's quite amazing how that small plane managed to crash land in one piece without deploying landing gears. Even more amazing how the people watching it stood still like dazzled spectators before realizing the need to get out of harm's way. But what takes the cake is the fact that the reconstituted Robotics Club managed to secure practically every available resource on the island for their rebuilding effort.

Last two episodes!
 
Mar 9, 2013 11:56 PM

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The programme sent by Sawada feels out of place because they cut all the foreshadowing. It's a fault of the anime part.

And the Noah IV. Actually, a Noah IV device is about the size of your palm. They got a load of them in that box. Of course these Noahs are nothing compared to the Noah II back in C;H, but this naked-eye AR is still dangerous in terms of its panic effect. In the VN, Sawada has said that


Everyone points your gun towards screenwriter Hanada already.
 
Mar 9, 2013 11:58 PM

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Dear haters,

YOUR RAGE SUSTAINS ME!


That being said, I loved the BGM during aki's speech (but boy, she's such a robo-ota)

Btw, if that NOAH IV is anything like NOAH II, it can realboot stuff. Why not have aki realboot Gunvarrel? I mean the real one, from the anime.
I want Rambo in a mecha-suit with a laser-chainsaw gun that fires nuclear warheads, fighting the love-child of Predator, Alien, a group of Bangladeshi terrorists, and Satan. (Actually that would be a pretty sick show) - StopDropAndBowl
 
Mar 9, 2013 11:58 PM
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been lurking around finally created account to post something ^^

for ppl who've played the VN, is the speech same as what aki said in this episode? i liked the speech at first, knowing aki is super genki, but after reading some of the comments here actually make sense, and i have second thoughts about it.

can anyone spoilt me on Subaru's father? why did he agreed to help out after seeing his son on clutches due to robots? whats the side story that wasn't converted to anime?

sorry for bad english, wasn't my first language ; ;
 
 
Mar 10, 2013 12:11 AM

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Wordsmith said:
Dear haters,

YOUR RAGE SUSTAINS ME!


That being said, I loved the BGM during aki's speech (but boy, she's such a robo-ota)

Btw, if that NOAH IV is anything like NOAH II, it can realboot stuff. Why not have aki realboot Gunvarrel? I mean the real one, from the anime.

Haters gonna hate.

And if the Committee still got their hands on the Noah II, it should of ended in a blink of eye already.

dio_brando1321 said:
For ppl who've played the VN, is the speech same as what aki said in this episode? i liked the speech at first, knowing aki is super genki, but after reading some of the comments here actually make sense, and i have second thoughts about it.

It's the same as the VN. But before that speech, Kimijima boasted the vast resources they had and how well they are armed, then asked Aki what's she gonna do. Yeah, makes all the difference.
Modified by Kansokusha, Mar 10, 2013 12:15 AM
 
Mar 10, 2013 12:49 AM
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Kansokusha said:

It's the same as the VN. But before that speech, Kimijima boasted the vast resources they had and how well they are armed, then asked Aki what's she gonna do. Yeah, makes all the difference.


thanks for the info!
 
Mar 10, 2013 9:13 AM

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Am I wrong for wanting Akiho to die after that annoying speech?
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwerVFCY-50PTBnedey1PQ
 
Mar 10, 2013 9:13 AM

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when Subaru said about equipping the Gun Pro 1 this keeps popping in my head


"Giant Humanoid Robots have saved the world dozens, even hundreds of times already"

that is true
robots from different animes parallel worlds unite to save the world, galaxy, even the universe

 
 
Mar 10, 2013 11:04 AM

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Orsonius said:
Am I wrong for wanting Akiho to die after that annoying speech?

You're not alone, that one's for sure.
 
Mar 10, 2013 12:27 PM

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Pretty good episode! Kimijima Kou is one messed up dude, it was interesting that Aki's sister was the one to kill him, portrays her character in a different light now. Plus, Aki's speech was pretty awesome! I feel like this episode is setting us up for a really awesome conclusion. Here's hoping!
 
Mar 10, 2013 12:42 PM

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This anime went from slow and boring to interesting and now to rather silly.. I don't really get all the reasons and motivations behind all the developments except that it all adds up to what I assume will be a big robot fight which will decide the fate of billions of people. xD
"When everyone else is about to give up, the fighter who becomes the role model, is the true Leader."

 
Mar 10, 2013 1:57 PM

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Little cheese there at the end on how everyone came to help the heroes save the world and all that but am not so irritated about her speech and such as others.

yuiriko said:
Ok so I've just realized this won't be as good as Steins;Gate. But still, the ep was nice, I'll probably give the show a final score of 8/10


Kind of late aren't you? Even if this and every other episode until the end where amazing it still wouldn't be as good as Steins;Gate since it would have been too late for that. Also the two main characters ain't nearly as good as Okabe and Christiiiina. People say Steins;Gate was slow and not very good at first but that's not true. It was good from the start actually because even when it seemed nothing was happening the character building and interaction was amazing making it fun even at low event episodes.

Anyway this show has a litle bad luck though because it's forced to be compared with Steins;Gate while if it was not for such comparison many people would have been pleased that is a decent enough show without being anything amazing. But now they get angry that the show proved below their expectations.
Modified by Monad, Mar 10, 2013 2:00 PM
 
Mar 10, 2013 4:49 PM

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Kansokusha said:
The programme sent by Sawada feels out of place because they cut all the foreshadowing. It's a fault of the anime part.

And the Noah IV. Actually, a Noah IV device is about the size of your palm. They got a load of them in that box. Of course these Noahs are nothing compared to the Noah II back in C;H, but this naked-eye AR is still dangerous in terms of its panic effect. In the VN, Sawada has said that


Everyone points your gun towards screenwriter Hanada already.


Hum, that's good to know. Thanks.
 
Mar 10, 2013 7:35 PM

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A bird! A fucking bird!!
Wasn't there anything better to save the damn girl?!
 
Mar 11, 2013 8:09 AM

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So why is there two episodes remaining I want to see some action and there is only 2 episodes oh man I hope they are epic
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Mar 11, 2013 7:42 PM
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Kimijima Kou you fucking monster!!

Leave Misaki alone!! God, this guy such a bastard!
 
Mar 12, 2013 2:53 PM

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Many people went into this expecting a second Steins;Gate, I did too. But the show is nice overall.
 
Mar 12, 2013 5:59 PM

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Wow...some of you guys need to control your expectations. Unfortunately, extremely high expectations (followed by disappointment) seems to be common around here.
 
Mar 13, 2013 5:53 AM

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I like this show. Alot.

But this episode rubbed me the wrong way. I'm all for hopes and dreams but.. there's a weapon that has the capability of wiping out half the planet.

Are government commandos going to save the day, or do something about it?

Nope. Just a big robot. And like, they bring in all these resources, including jaxa engineers and materials and such- has everyone gone insane?
 
 
Mar 13, 2013 7:06 AM

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Aaaah, my head hurts, this episode was horrible in so many things I can's simply write them all!!

- We have this grave situation and Akiho still cares only if her sister is loving robots, wtf? Why is she even telling him?
- And then she held that sort of over-patrotic speech saying "Robots will save the world!!" OMG, too much pathos for me.
- And even then, parrot saves the day, the heck?! Now, they are trolling us, right?
- And why did her sister even put on that mechanic wear when she knows he would be able to control her? Nothing makes sense, really.
- Why they had to crash with that airplane when there was no fault before and they could simply take out their landing gears? And when uncontrolable airplane is heading for hangar it suddenly and magically turns to right just before crash? Come on!
- They are thinking of taking over their base with their half-assed and defunctional robot? Surely there isn't any other easier and faster way, right? (how long can such building of robot can take? Wasn't time pressing us? Wouldn't be easier something like going covert for example?)
- But wait aren't we going against your sister, Aki? Yes, but that doesn't matter cause ROBOT OF JUSTICE WILL WIN FOR SURE!!! o_O
- But all that still wasn't enough - now even principal comes to help, surprise! And with her, everyone else is happy and come helping too! We now have JAXA and ALLl its resources on our side, yay! Right! Cause this giant big robot will definitely save us, right! Right? Ehm...

There were some good quotes from Frau but that alone can't save this show from taking its rapid rocket downfall with this episode.
Modified by Mich666, Mar 13, 2013 7:10 AM
 
Mar 13, 2013 11:54 AM

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bloggbigg said:

In the second case- C:H is convoluted existential rubbish which denied it's own premise. Sorry- I wanted to like it, but it bored & irritated me.

That tendency to judge a title based on shitty as hell anime is making me sad.
Really, at least say that you mean a Chaos;Head-anime, not the whole Chaos;Head title.
That's just a personal request, if you like.
Every time I see someone who didn't read the novel says that chaos;head is bad Kimijima kills a virtual loli. And my heart breaks.

And again, I didn't make it in time to the real discussion. After 3-5 pages of pointless comments with episode summaries I stopped following.
Will be more patient after next episode.
I have a feeling that someone gonna die from irritation after the ending.
About half of the forum.
Modified by Finjas, Mar 13, 2013 12:18 PM

 
Mar 13, 2013 3:17 PM

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Finjas said:
That tendency to judge a title based on shitty as hell anime is making me sad.
Really, at least say that you mean a Chaos;Head-anime, not the whole Chaos;Head title.
That's just a personal request, if you like.

I honestly don't know if you mean the Manga or Visual Novel- but it doesn't matter because if you think the anime is 'shitty as hell'- then the issue is with the creators, not any observers. The 'tendancy' to associate things based on how the creator allowed them to be presented isn't unreasonable. I don't know if they were budget-constrianed, time-limited, staff-switched, or just lazy- but they did it themselves. Also- the major issues with C;H were (IMHO) unrealistic character expectations and behavior, ridiculous progress from total loser to hero by the Main character, and even more ridiculous power handling in the final confrontation. I'm not saying this to discuss it here- that's not the point- I'm just saying that those issues seem to be present in what I noticed of the manga- and if you're talking about the 'game', then you're talking about too small and audience to be considered recognizable in the world. Heck- even in Japan I'd bet more people have seen the anime than played the game.

Finjas said:
Every time I see someone who didn't read the novel says that chaos;head is bad Kimijima kills a virtual loli. And my heart breaks.

Sorry, Kimijima is amoral, but not evil- and definitely more bored then 'reactive'. He might threaten to do it, or do it on a whim, but precise follow through doesn't seem to be his forte.

Finjas said:
And again, I didn't make it in time to the real discussion. After 3-5 pages of pointless comments with episode summaries I stopped following.

You didn't read them, but you know the discussion is pointless? That's some superpower. I mean- you're probably right, but that would be accident, not effort.

Finjas said:
Will be more patient after next episode.
I have a feeling that someone gonna die from irritation after the ending.
About half of the forum.

I think the Fanbois have way more invested in this. They already see 'haters' when most everyone here likes the series- even if some can see flaws, or wish it took less 'shortcuts' in it's storytelling.
I mean seriously- no landing gear and no explanation? How's that NOT shoddy even to you guys? And you're ok with the parrot? Four heroic characters, (Five if the mind control could be fought- like Misaki is trying), and a parrot has to save the day? Whatever. Yeah- it's all the soon to be 'dead from irritation' haters.

Blame the writers/screenwriters/producers. Someone responsible for 'this shitty anime'- Not people who actually like, pay attention to, and want to understand the world presented.

If you like it- more power to you. I thought it started awesome, was building great, then went- 'who the heck knows?' where. What can you do? No- not Steins;Gate- which was sooo impressive- but the mistakes here were just sloppy. That's all.

When M. Knight Shamalayan did Sixth Sense, he was screwed for the rest of his career because he set the bar so high for himself-- but I think 'unbreakable', and even to a degree 'the village' were fair efforts at following his expectation. 'Lady in the water' was an honest attempt at something new- so it sucking can be forgiven- but Avatar? No way should he have thought that could come together well.

Steins;Gate is the same way- and this... Lets say it started out like unbreakable, then decided it wanted to try 'the last airbender' after all.

Just my take on it.
Modified by bloggbigg, Mar 13, 2013 3:21 PM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 13, 2013 9:52 PM

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bloggbigg said:
I mean seriously- no landing gear and no explanation? How's that NOT shoddy even to you guys? And you're ok with the parrot? Four heroic characters, (Five if the mind control could be fought- like Misaki is trying), and a parrot has to save the day? Whatever. Yeah- it's all the soon to be 'dead from irritation' haters.

Shigemi(Kai's father): "Bad news."
Shigemi: "It seems that there's a malfunctioning. I can't get the landing gear to work."
Kaito: "WHAAAAAT!?"
Not at a time like this!
Shigemi: "Everyone prepare for a crash landing!"

Oh and the parrot. Maybe everyone will feel better if you see it through the perspective of Kimijima. Shit happens, just like RL.
 
 
Mar 13, 2013 11:26 PM

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Sorry about quotation, It, s hard to divide all of this from portable device.
First of all, about Chaos;head. If it wasn't for Chaos;head popularity, there won' t be any Steins;gate at all. Since the anime is objectively lame, it can't really be popular even in strange Japan, I think that your conclusion about too small audiance to be recognizable in the world is pretty wrong. Like I said, if that really were the case, then there won't be any sequels.
And, sorry but no. The main problem of Chaos;head anime is that it has nearly nothing to do with the original VN. There is nothing wrong with the creators, there is everything wrong with adaptators. To judge about the whole Chaos;head title from anime, it,s like judge a book from it,s plot summary, becase this what Chaos;head anime is - a plot summary. Just a huge spoiler of the novel. That's the exact reason behind stupid characters and incomprehensible story.
Try to read a plot summary of a book by worldwide famous and popular author. Even if the original was a masterpiece, it's summary would have the same problems. Because it isn't really a book to begin with. But still, it's book adaptation, you see?
And,if you ask me, Chaos;head in vn is partly much better even than Steins;gate vn, even more tha S;G anime.
The same goes for R;N actually. I wouldn't even watch the anime, if I had a choice. But I haven't, cause vn wasn't translated, and won't be, since it wasn't even ported to PC.
And that's exactly why I am enjoying the show and trying to close my eyes on it's countless flaws. Only because I know how screwed adaptation could be. Because I know, that even a masterpiece like Chaos;Head could be turned by animators into shit.
If it wasn't for that, I would already have dropped this anime.
And I wasn't blaming anyone on this forum and never called anyone a hater. It only natural for watchers to be irritated from such a show, so I just said the obvious fact. To be honest, I myself don' t quite understand why do people, who aren't familiar with SCIADV-series more than from sg-anime. So your ironic answers about me being a fanboy and not reading a discussion were pretty out of place.
PS: sorry, if there is any problems with bb-code. I'll fix them as soon as I get home.

Upd: partly fixed typos. Really sorry about that. Mobile keyboard.
Modified by Finjas, Mar 14, 2013 4:00 AM

 
Mar 13, 2013 11:35 PM

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Finjas said:

First of all, about Chaos;head. If it wasn't for Chaos;head popularity, there won' t be any Steins;gate att all. Since the anime is objectively lame, it can't really be popular even in strange Japan, I think that your conclusion about too small audiance to be recognisable in the world is pretty wrong. Like I said, if that really were the case, then there won't be any siquels.
Sorry for jumping in, but what made you say the anime is "objectively" lame? What basis of objectivity you are using? And you say "strange Japan", do I detect some attempt to label something "strange" just because you do not understand and try to understand a foreign culture?
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Mar 13, 2013 11:55 PM

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symbv said:
Finjas said:

First of all, about Chaos;head. If it wasn't for Chaos;head popularity, there won' t be any Steins;gate at all. Since the anime is objectively lame, it can't really be popular even in strange Japan, I think that your conclusion about too small audience to be recognizable in the world is pretty wrong. Like I said, if that really were the case, then there won't be any sequels.
Sorry for jumping in, but what made you say the anime is "objectively" lame? What basis of objectivity you are using? And you say "strange Japan", do I detect some attempt to label something "strange" just because you do not understand and try to understand a foreign culture?

No, not at all. All that I meant was that tastes of eastern viewers often differs with western. That was just a figure of speech. I should have marked that somehow.
But is that even relevant?
About objectively lame anime, well, like it have already been said, there are stupid characters, completely pointless motivations of their actions, failed character developent, incomprehensible plot with so much plotholes and deus ex machinas, even more than in rn, maybe. And most of all, it's really bad as adaptation. 40% of story was completely changed. All of the plot-making details was lost, and a main character looks very, very pathetic for absolutely no reason, while in VN his personality had a clear suspence-building purpose and his reactions were understandable.
While VN is a great denpa sci-fi, anime has di-sword battles and pink excavators.

Modified by Finjas, Mar 14, 2013 3:55 AM

 
Mar 14, 2013 1:00 PM

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Kansokusha said:

I didn't mean- 'I bet the VN doesn't even have an answer'- I meant 'Why not put it the 10 second explanation in this production?' Shoddy.

Also we won't debate how landing gear is actually least likely to fail and gravity activated (ie, heavy) as part of that design- it failed, whatever.

'Shit happens', indeed. The only point is I think anyone over age 7 could write a better plot resolution than 'Parrot head butts gun and saves the day'. Ok- maybe age 14.
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 14, 2013 2:12 PM

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Finjas said:
Sorry about quotation, It, s hard to divide all of this from portable device.

np.
Finjas said:

I should have been more explicit- I meant the popularity of the VN compared to the anime. I was not comparing CH to SG or any VN vs manga vs anime type variants within. C;H VN vs C;H anime audience size is what I meant- and my main point being:
All C;H Anime viewers>Japanese C;H Anime viewers>Japanese PS3/PC owning C;H VN players (+ onofficial PC lang patch players).
Finjas said:

I'll take your superior knowledge ion this issue as truth, and concede the broad point- but do realize the creators authorized (in some capacity) the adaptation. They allowed all the changes- if they weren't responsible for any themselves. They also could have chosen to name it better/different/more clearly. Even so, Full Metal Alchemist (as an example) is a significant departure from the manga and still manages to tell a great, albeit very different and 'incomplete' story. They even managed (somehow) to 'reboot' as brotherhood the 'proper' adaptation. What compensates for allowing a crappy adaptation in the first place? Money? Hey- all good, you need money to make more anime-- but if they 'sell out' their 'dream', and the result is less than it should be, again, who's to blame? The adapters? No. Their job is entirely dependent on the creators selling out in the first place. They have no job to do otherwise. A good job? A crappy job? What are they allowed to do before they are told to do it again/do it right/fired? What are they allowed to get away with- especially if you say 'lets shoehorn 30+ hours of gameplay into 7+ hours of Anime somehow.'
Finjas said:

I don't expect perfection, and am very often happy overlooking flaws in anime- it's unavoidable in a sense-- but when flaws are this numerous and pitiful, it threatens to cross into the realm of being insulting the audience- because it's clear they think you'll put up with countless flaws- that (as you said) you'll close your eyes on. Why go that route when spotting them and fixing them is not that hard? There are people hired in some companies for that specific purpose (often continuity editors, but can include research and various experts as well- yes, even for full fiction anime).
http://myanimelist.net/anime/4450/Chrno_Crusade:_Azmarias_Lessons
Making good fiction means you sometimes verify the basics, build on the rational, and explain the 'excess' reasonably well.
Or, you can just deus ex the hell out of any problems you create.
I wonder which makes a 'better' writer?
And I'll be the first to say, sometimes it has nothing to do with enjoyability- but I think R;N took everyone for a ride, completely shifting gears from 1st to 3rd and screwing up the whole developed plot on the way. it's their anime- they can do what they want. I can complain, not get it, be wrong, whatever- but sometimes the creators go a bit too far.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
http://myanimelist.net/anime/849/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu
has a story arc towards the end where they are trapped in a time loop. The first episode sets the basics, then each of the SEVEN episodes after that is more or less the same episode with slight changes. I should be clear- this is not recycled animation mostly- each episode shows new views of old events, slight variations in dress- even some occasional new scenes. Each episode is essentially a 'new remake' of the first episode. As you can imagine, genius as it was (attempt to have viewer empathetic to the trapped characters)- it did not go over well. I skipped ahead after watching a few, but can imagine the pain of people watching it when it aired and hoping each time they were breaking out, only to be disappointed time and again. It was brilliant.
It was also a dick move.
Putting that much work into an idea I can not like, but still respect. Putting _so little_ work into events/resolutions here- just a bit less so.
Finjas said:

That was others calling people haters, and I should have made it clear, because I did address you, and I apologize for that. I used to work in a comic shop long ago, and I'll just say when you admit you're trying to enjoy something more than 'it deserves'- or you defend it against clear faults, you're entering 'Fanboi territory'. Not saying you are doing any of that, or that you can't do either without any other sense of enjoyment or whatever- but there are a number of people who think a little critical discussion makes a person a 'hater' & (ruins their positive outlook I guess?).
'It is what it is' I suppose.
As for 'not reading the discussion'- those were your own words- not trying to be mean- just sayin'-- I think you know your stuff, but saying stuff like that can give a person the wrong impression about your opinion.
I will value it based on it's content.
Others, they will do what they like.
Modified by bloggbigg, Mar 14, 2013 2:18 PM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 15, 2013 12:23 AM
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neontaster said:
So many emotions. And Frau needs her own show. Frau;Notes. I'd watch that.

Frau;Notes! Haha awesome. Nice name btw
 
Mar 15, 2013 12:33 AM
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Isn't it just amazing how many people come to "discuss" the 20th episode of an anime with nothing but angry crap to say? You people really watched 20 episodes of this and have nothing but complaints? Is there anything that doesn't make you angry? No one wants to hear your contradicting nonsense, but I guess these types are expected on an anime forum, the ones whose angry pathetic lives hinge on anime.
 
 
Mar 15, 2013 2:07 AM

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It still doesn't make sense....

It really doesn't.

This anime is really all over the place.

I wish it wasn't so convoluted, it could've been a really good anime.
TUA TIME!!
 
Mar 15, 2013 6:18 AM

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neoneo said:
Isn't it just amazing how many people come to "discuss" the 20th episode of an anime with nothing but angry crap to say? You people really watched 20 episodes of this and have nothing but complaints? Is there anything that doesn't make you angry? No one wants to hear your contradicting nonsense, but I guess these types are expected on an anime forum, the ones whose angry pathetic lives hinge on anime.

'Isn't it just amazing how a person can come into a forum and NOT discuss" the 20th episode of an anime with nothing but angry crap to say? A person read 8 pages of posts with nothing relevant to add- instead "discussing" the people posting with nothing but complaints? Is there anything that doesn't make you angry? No one wants to hear your hypocritical nonsense, but I guess these types are expected on an anime forum, the ones whose angry pathetic lives hinge on hatred- trolling a thread instead of adding to it's value.'

Did you see what I did there?
Broad judgements and hate only get you so far in life. Just sayin'
BTW, liking the anime despite it's flaws is fine, but maybe (and I'm not one to judge) if you can't spot the obvious plot issues, you might not be best suited to 'debate' others on the internet- you know considering you might be at a disadvantage when it comes to these little dismissible things like 'basic comprehension' & 'objectivity'.

Of course- free country/world- do what you like- but as for any point I've made? I can/have hotlinked to supporting material, and could likely timecode any observation I've made. You can't say the same for your generalizations or opinion. You may not have been 'talking to me'- but I will respond to you.

This is 'Robotics;Notes Episode 20 Discussion. You're not adding to that subject. You want to discuss a relevant point, and I'll be happy to accept or debate it on it's merits. If you have no point or counterpoint, but instead are needing to attack people who's views don't agree with yours, well---

Good luck with that.
Modified by bloggbigg, Mar 15, 2013 7:22 AM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists.

Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'.
 
Mar 15, 2013 7:38 AM

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That makes sense when you're talking about manga or light novel, like with Fullmetal Alchemist or Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, but Visual novels are different.
The thing is, manga and light-novels usually have one-two authors who are responsible for all of the setting, characters etc. Authors are the main source of such works and they can argue with animators about changes, if their work is going to be animated. (I bet, most of them are just happy to get an anime whatever the cost to their original story, but that's irrelevant.)
Visual Novel has main author too, but he is a state-worker. In most of all cases the story is a work of state scriptwriter.
If manga or light-novel author has original copyrights and can affect production process of anime based on his work, the author of the VN doesn't really has any rights at all. His employer holds all of the rights to do everything with his works, because he wrote his works for the employer in the first place.
The creators themselves aren't really entirely responsible for the anime based on their VN. The top does. Sponsors, CEOs, etc.
That maybe exaggerated, since I don't really know how to explain, but that's the actual scheme of work.
And even if that wasn't the case, anime is still just an adaptation of not really suitable for adaptations format - Visual Novels.
Adaptations isn't the main representative of the title.
"Original work" and "based on" are the key words.
What's the difference if the original work has smaller audience?
I mean, if main work is determined by how big audience it has, then plot-summaries of War and Peace should be the main work, not the original 4-volume book.
There are things in this world, which doesn't suit to many people, that doesn't mean that that things should be just casted off and replaced by it's highly inferior adaptation just because the original has much smaller audience.
And of course that doesn't give right to somebody who isn't even acquainted with the work itself to judge about it only after it's animated plot-summary.
Modified by Finjas, Mar 15, 2013 8:02 AM

 
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