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May 12, 2013 9:12 PM

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Ok, I don't remember that part even though that's one of my favorite scenes.

That could have been it. Though he said that there were MANY(his words) dues ex machinas.
 
May 12, 2013 9:14 PM

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IntroverTurtle said:
Haha, wow. I guess I don't have to answer all of those, I ate too slow. Actually his answers to number 1 and 4 were something I didn't fully know.
When was the answer to 1 revealed? I thought he did absorb god, but because of him losing all the souls, he wasn't able to hold it in. Though that would fit if he absorbed some other higher power like you said too.

And Alfonse, do you remember any of those dues ex machina moments?


It's just some moments when one of the characters are about to die by the hands of the homunculus or someone else when all of a sudden Greed appears, or Ling appears, or Lan Fan appears, or Mustang, etc out of no where, and you just wonder where the hell they come from or how they found the characters. It's not really a big deal seeing as to how many anime (action especially) do it. And at least FMAB doesn't overdo it like Bleach and Naruto do.
 
May 12, 2013 9:16 PM

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rockbot said:
IntroverTurtle said:
Haha, wow. I guess I don't have to answer all of those, I ate too slow. Actually his answers to number 1 and 4 were something I didn't fully know.
When was the answer to 1 revealed? I thought he did absorb god, but because of him losing all the souls, he wasn't able to hold it in. Though that would fit if he absorbed some other higher power like you said too.

And Alfonse, do you remember any of those dues ex machina moments?


The answer to #1 was revealed in episode 63 when Father confronted "God." "God" said that Father "coverted the power of what he called God."

I think Alfonse thought Hohenhiem's counterattack against Father's nationwide transmutation circle was an deus ex machina because he saw no foreshadowing of it. He mentioned that he didn't pay attention at time so he must've missed the scene where Hohenhiem was planting one of his souls onto the ground in episode 36.


Oh, no I saw that. That was actually quite brilliant on Hohenheim's part.
 
May 12, 2013 10:41 PM

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Just had this discussion on the Brotherhood board, but I preferred the original for a lot of reasons but to sum it up shortly.

Plot- Less cliche, less convenient points where the heroes win or escape, less misplaced and overused humor. Brotherhood was too shounen and placed too much focus on big bad villains and fights while disregarding everything else.

Characters- More believable and realistic, the homonculi actually had character and personality. Dialogue is more natural and subtle and less over done then it is in Brotherhood.

Music- More variety and in my opinion better then Brotherhood.

Art and animation- Both about the same but of course Brotherhood's would be better since it came out several years later.


 
Jun 29, 2013 6:22 AM
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I liked the philosophy from the last few episodes. It's more realistic than FMAB, and I enjoy the original FMA waaay more than the Brotherhood
 
Oct 12, 2013 1:56 AM
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^Disagree, FMA03 felt poor compared to Brotherhood.

Shrabster said:
Just had this discussion on the Brotherhood board, but I preferred the original for a lot of reasons but to sum it up shortly.

Plot- Less cliche, less convenient points where the heroes win or escape, less misplaced and overused humor. Brotherhood was too shounen and placed too much focus on big bad villains and fights while disregarding everything else.

Characters- More believable and realistic, the homonculi actually had character and personality. Dialogue is more natural and subtle and less over done then it is in Brotherhood.

Music- More variety and in my opinion better then Brotherhood.

Art and animation- Both about the same but of course Brotherhood's would be better since it came out several years later.


-FMA03's tryhard deep dark moments, especially around the second half felt more cliche than brotherhood's tbh

-Nope. I felt the characters became more bland and tacked on as the series went on, especially with Rose...

-K i can see why people love the music in the original.
 
Oct 12, 2013 1:59 AM
WATCH UMA MUSUME

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It's probably because in FMAB people were watching the anime after they read the manga, therefore have the exact same storyline, whereas FMA split off from the manga into a different storyline.
 
Oct 15, 2013 10:49 PM

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@ OP - the answer lies in this thread. I am one of those who loved the original but did not like Brotherhood, but I don't think I hate it. I just get annoyed and don't want to talk about FMA B BECAUSE before it came out FMA was one of the most praised and highest rated anime shows and was considered a modern classic and a must watch, but unfortunately FMA B shounen fans (and yes I use the term 'shounen fans' in a derogatory sense) almost completely obliterated the status of the original ...wiped it off the map with their "just watch FMA B and forget about the 2003 filler-fest", and their "FMA B should be called ORIGINAL anime, not the 2003 anime, why do 2003 version fans call that ORIGINAL anime, its not based on the manga blah blah" without understanding the basic fact that they are entirely different shows, to the point that I don't consider the original a proper shounen title per se.

Anyway, that's my reason for 'hating' FMA: B (by hating I mean I don't want to talk about it at all). Its been some time since I watched either so I can't give a definite opinion, but I recall writing a lot about the two shows, how they differ, and why people make a huge blunder of comparing the two cuz the only similar things are the name of the characters and the basic premise. Thematically, and aesthetically, they are as different as night and day.

And when I say the answer lies in the thread, just look at what FMA B fans have posted about the 2003 version. In fact, I would say that the question that you asked is wrong. The question should be, why do FMA B fans 'hate' (I would rather use the word 'decry' or 'vilify') the ORIGINAL anime so much, and why do they insist on shoving their opinions down other people's throat and misleading people new to the franchise by telling them that they should watch Brotherhood first since it is superior in every sense (I have even heard FMA B fans telling people that they should stay away from the 2003 version entirely).

This is the sort of advice I would never give on FMA B despite 'hating' it; in fact I would actually recommend it over the ORIGINAL anime in most cases because I have now come to view the latter as appealing to very selective audience (I have FMA B fans to thank for that opinion of mine)
Modified by eyerok, Oct 15, 2013 10:57 PM
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Nov 3, 2013 12:04 AM
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Alfonse said:
IntroverTurtle said:
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
IntroverTurtle said:
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
amichaaan said:
(and Nina and Hughe's death was better in Brotherhood, just putting that out there so you don't bring that up like every FMA fan does).

And FMA didn't even get the Winry x Ed moment like Brotherhood did.


How exactly were Nina's and Hughe's deaths better in BH? If by better, you mean rushed, then yes I can agree.

So? Was Winry x Ed something that absolutely needed to happen? Just because there's a girl and a boy, doesn't make it so that they have to be dating.

Also, you say that by sending him to another world, the ending is stupid. In writing, yes it does sound stupid, but the execution of it is actually done quite well. The original keeps in mind the law of equivalent exchange with its ending, you know: something that's been essentially the central theme of the entire show. BH just doesn't do this. They get a philosopher's stone and everyone's happy. It's just too cliched and fairy tale-driven to be an original ending.


But wasn't the entire thematic point of FMA:B about how equivalent exchange is invalid? I always felt that Ed and Al's journey was about learning that the world doesn't operate in accordance with equivalent exchange and that life isn't about simply giving back the equivalence of what you've recieved.
 
Dec 12, 2014 2:16 AM

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FMAB is a great series. But how the fandom accepts FMAB as the lord and savior of anime while shitting on FMA 2003's existence has made me grow an enormous amount of contempt for it that otherwise wouldn't exist. I almost have no desire to watch FMAB again because its flaws will only stand out more to me because of the people shouting "MASTERPIECE", ruining the experience. Hell, typing this out, I'm shocked how much disdain I'm feeling. And seeing other comments falsely sneering over FMA 2003 is only fueling it.
Modified by zacrathedemon5, Dec 12, 2014 2:25 AM
 
Dec 18, 2014 7:52 PM

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People dislike the parts of the original where the story isn't being followed directly onward, just calling it "filler", but I would disagree to that being a weakness and that it actually gave the series a better atmosphere and world-building. Brotherhood does stick to the plot and never backs away, but there comes a point where that starts to become a negative. By the midway point it felt too much like going from point A to point B, and I could see where the plot was going if there were to be no twists ahead. That was also another plus to FMA, in that there were twists to make things stay fresh (not only considering the ending). For example: Alphonse becomes the philosopher's stone, so now the game has changed. The goal has in a way failed and in a way succeeded. It made for another push in interest.

To further support of the "fillers", FMA didn't follow the manga past the beginning so they can't really be considered that, and the fillers gave a slight dynamic story that felt as though they were adventuring with an unknown destination than the linear way Brotherhood went about things. That along with the too broad of a theme in Brotherhood. FMA felt very much like gothic european, but Brotherhood threw in modern clothing, Japanese clothing, panda-bears, and it began to feel like a mess. There was no consistent theme in that regard which I didn't enjoy as much.

Also, while there were some somewhat flat characters in the original series from what I remember, Brotherhood's consistent side-characters had a reasonable amount of run-time, but felt like follower puppies most of the time with no personality besides situational dialogue.

The whole theme of sacrifice and the focus of searching for the bodies found in the original series also didn't rtranslate to Brotherhood, and Ed and Al felt like side characters at times. People complain that the beginning of Brotherhood isn't that good, but I actually liked it the most as there was more going on and a better prioritization of what should e focused on, less empty and motivation-less characters then too.

The happy ending also felt out of place, and how they went about it (using some contrivances) felt like a cheapening out when recalling the tragic scene at the beginning that still remained being the Nina death. It doesn't feel right to leave off on a purely happy note after having that happen in the past.
 
Jan 10, 2015 12:40 PM
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This is a question that can be easily reversed.

And it seems people who like one but hate the other find the biggest issue with the respective tones and endings. I'm not sure why you can't like both. As someone who prefers FMA, there a few things in FMA: B that made me roll my eyes, but that depends on your preference.
 
May 12, 2017 4:26 AM
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i saw brotherhood yesterday.their is lots of difference.
fma was sad & tragic vs brotherhood which was light & up beat (personally i like brotherhood here)
fma animation i think was slightly better
fma music , omg... that mop the floor with brotherhood, i was very sad they changed the music director .
the fma introduction of amstrong, i still remember cause of that awesome music.
mustang is very much like his gintama mirror image hijikata in brotherhood.
for 1st 20 episode of brotherhood i was like , why they ruined FMA, but then when the new story kicks in & its awesome.
my over all impression is Brotherhood is awesome than FMA. story has more life & depth to it.
people who love tragic stories will be disappointed.
The real problem of brotherhood is its mediocre sound track.
 
Sep 10, 2017 8:11 PM
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i'm probably very late to the party but the reason why i just loathe and despise fmab is easily all those ppl (and my friends) who told me to "just watch brotherhood bruh, 03 version is shit", altho they haven't seen the original...
it's just making me very angry, so much that I dropped brotherhood just out of pure spite
 
Sep 10, 2017 8:37 PM

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obsucuria said:
i'm probably very late to the party but the reason why i just loathe and despise fmab is easily all those ppl (and my friends) who told me to "just watch brotherhood bruh, 03 version is shit", altho they haven't seen the original...
it's just making me very angry, so much that I dropped brotherhood just out of pure spite

So you hate a show because some fans are obnoxious? Lol that doesn't make any sense. Watch it again and ignore the idiots. It's worth watching.
 
Sep 13, 2017 9:39 PM
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I've long been scratching my head on how Brotherhood is considered a masterpiece and has the top spot on this site. I loved how FMA tried to be as realistic as possible with a tad bit of supernatural elements to it and wasn't cliche. It felt like something original where Brotherhood felt like something that I had seen before and became too shounen for its own good. The characters aren't fleshed out as well, especially Ed, and I don't see how anyone could develop any type of attachments to them if they hadn't seen FMA based on how the story flowed. Nina's death in Brotherhood was definitely not as heavy or emotional as the first series. It barely felt like Ed or her knew each other, making that scene less impactful. I cannot in any way see Brotherhood as a masterpiece as I've seen better shows than it that I wouldn't consider a masterpiece. I felt like it added too many characters and tried to do too much instead of sticking to permeating theme throughout. Not sure about masterpiece, but I would consider FMA a classic. It sticks with you in a chilling sort of hauntingly, memorable way. I couldn't classify Brotherhood as either other than a good watch. It's kinda forgettable, or rather doesn't stand out well as it could as you've seen something like it before.
 
Sep 17, 2017 9:21 AM
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Cyborg_Icarus29 said:
obsucuria said:
i'm probably very late to the party but the reason why i just loathe and despise fmab is easily all those ppl (and my friends) who told me to "just watch brotherhood bruh, 03 version is shit", altho they haven't seen the original...
it's just making me very angry, so much that I dropped brotherhood just out of pure spite

So you hate a show because some fans are obnoxious? Lol that doesn't make any sense. Watch it again and ignore the idiots. It's worth watching.


It's quite possible to hate smth because of the fans, by associating said thing with smth negative. And this was the case with me and fmab.
I was also quite bored of the first episode so I just quit there
 
Sep 17, 2017 11:56 AM

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obsucuria said:
Cyborg_Icarus29 said:

So you hate a show because some fans are obnoxious? Lol that doesn't make any sense. Watch it again and ignore the idiots. It's worth watching.


It's quite possible to hate smth because of the fans, by associating said thing with smth negative. And this was the case with me and fmab.
I was also quite bored of the first episode so I just quit there

Just ignore the fans and enjoy it, you won't regret it.
The first episode is weird and the first 13 episodes or so are a condensed version of the first 26 episodes in the original but the rest is REALLY good.
 
Feb 20, 2018 9:51 AM
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, was a completely retarded climax. Many other parts of the ending of FMA:B were pretty good, but it was definitely faulty as a whole.

Also the first like 15 episodes of FMA:B were recap of manga content that FMA already animated. IDK if anyone else noticed this, but those duplicate episodes had terrible pacing. It seems clear to me that they were rushing through that content in order to get to the FMA divergence point as fast as possible. The problem with that is that it makes the first part of FMA:B pretty bad as stand-alone content. Also the first episode of FMA:B was obvious and shitty filler, which probably turned people off.

so...
#1 Starting an anime with filler is an extremely bad first impression
#2 The first quarter of FMA:B was rushed recap.
#3 The ending of FMA:B had serious flaws, especially compared to FMA

Pretty much the only area of FMA:B that stands out as excellent is the middle.
I also have to tell people to watch FMA first, because the first quarter of FMA:B covers that content so poorly. HunterxHunter2011 has a very similar problem. For some reason the studios who do these reboots always flub the recap and create sub-par standalone content. Only super nerds will watch every single version of a story over and over, the average viewer needs the content to be presented well to them the first time.
 
Feb 20, 2018 10:18 AM

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Well, Brotherhood fans are often pretty annoying. A lot of them bash the original series too, so I imagine it being a counter reaction to that. In my experience they often treat the opinion of preferring the original as objectively wrong, which ticks off a lot of fans, myself included.

Another reason is probably the pacing. The original is paced slower and is a lot more contemplative than Brotherhood, which has been streamlined closer to standard shounen feel. If you don't like shounen, you probably aren't going to like Brotherhood either. It could leave you feeling like the franchise has betrayed your expectations, I guess?

To be frank, personally I completely lost interest in Brotherhood towards the end when they started to prepare for the final confrontation... It became too focused on battles while that's not at all what I liked about the series. We have enough battle shounen anime already...
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Sep 17, 2018 5:15 PM

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Maybe it’s because FMA:B is a shallow, rushed, cliche shounen adapation with forced comedy (e.g. repetitive Ed short jokes), compared to the more nuanced, gritty, deeper FMA 2003 counterpart.

FMA has better character development, much more organic pacing, a better origin story for the homunclui. We spend time getting to develop an attachment with Hughes and Nina, so their deaths actually carry emotional weight. The Lab 5 stuff was poorly handed and rushed into one episode, Greed stuff rushed, Lior rushed, Youswell/Barry the Chopper/Mugiar stuff totally IGNORED, Martel rushed and taken all of the emotion out of it. Nobody would care when Martel died in Brotherhood, she was in 1 episode as a throwaway character. In the original they really gave you a chance to identify and emphasise with her, making her death much more tragic.

The villains were better written e.g. the homunculi here were treated like real people with their own motivations, compared to Brotherhood were they were just one dimensional lackeys (Lust, Sloth and Gluttony especially) for Father. The Brotherhood sins development/reason behind their sin was outright spelt to us before their death, whereas in FMA it was far more subtle. Ed isn’t your typical shounen protagonist who doesn’t kills because that’s one of his core principles. FMA Ed is far more human. We see his ideology being properly challenged, Ed gradually having to face the harsh truth of the world (that you don’t always get your way), and we see him gradually shift in personality after Greed’s death. We see Ed’s conflict in having to face Sloth (the mother he created with alchemy) and him shouldering the responsibility in dealing with the weight of his consequences. Alchemy, equivalent exchange, rule of war are much better explored e.g. the show tackles how equivalent exchange is a false ideology e.g. if someone puts in hard work= it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be rewarded (i hope that makes sense)

The Philosopher's Stone was supposed to be an important, elusive plot device that even the superhuman Homunculi couldn't create on their own, in Brotherhood they're abundant and cheapened, in every homunculus, hundreds in Central, Kimblee has 2 on hand like they're gumballs.

I could go on, but the point is FMA gets unnecessary hate for “not following the manga”, which is ridiculous considering it’s objectively better than FMA:B
Modified by OG_Guts, Oct 18, 2018 2:37 AM
 
Oct 25, 2018 3:03 AM
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Because the more than half of the Brotherhood fans just ignore the original FMA anime or tell you to skip it. Its really annoying to see especially when you grew up with the original FMA anime. I think they are both great in their own rights but seeing people dismiss FMA 03 just because it diverges from the manga pisses me off especially knowing that a lot of people who tell you to skip it or ignore it haven't even seen the original FMA anime.
Modified by FMPfan12, Oct 25, 2018 3:21 AM
 
Nov 10, 2018 4:57 PM

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Brotherhood is without a doubt better from a writing standpoint. It's weird to hate on the Brotherhood though as that's the intended story by the mangaka. Well to each his/her own.
 
Nov 10, 2018 6:15 PM
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Shoryuuken said:
Brotherhood is without a doubt better from a writing standpoint. It's weird to hate on the Brotherhood though as that's the intended story by the mangaka. Well to each his/her own.

That's like saying you shouldn't dislike an original movie, a TV show, or anime, because that's how the writers intended it to be. The author of a source material isn't some infallible god who can do no wrong. There are always things that can be improved or done in a different and better way. Just because something is faithful to the source material, doesn't automatically make it good, let alone better.
 
Nov 10, 2018 6:35 PM

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brotherhood is way better than the other one.

they skip a bit of the beginning parts which is a little lame, but then its just a vastly superior show.

I have to imagine, people who back the original adaptation are just doubling down on their opinion since the majority of people agree brotherhood is better.

brotherhood ending is way better than original's ending and in no fashion is father a generic villain. Hes extra complex.
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Nov 11, 2018 3:30 AM

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Vhailor said:
Shoryuuken said:
Brotherhood is without a doubt better from a writing standpoint. It's weird to hate on the Brotherhood though as that's the intended story by the mangaka. Well to each his/her own.

That's like saying you shouldn't dislike an original movie, a TV show, or anime, because that's how the writers intended it to be. The author of a source material isn't some infallible god who can do no wrong. There are always things that can be improved or done in a different and better way. Just because something is faithful to the source material, doesn't automatically make it good, let alone better.

I never said that, that's what you make of it. In my opinion Brotherhood is written in a better and more consistent manner and doesn't revolve about questionable pretentious philosophical plot points, development and dialogue. It's been a while since I've seen both but I do remember the original making me shake my head multiple times, still an enjoyable show though. Brotherhood was simple and straight to the point, which fitted way more with the early tone and premises of the story. Not to say a series can shift atmosphere and tone, but it felt unnatural to me in the original.
 
Feb 13, 8:52 PM

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Brotherhood is a pretty crappy show imo

The first half of the show is utter dogshit, literally comedy every damn scene. I hate the manga and the content FMAB covers from the manga so fucking much. And no, BroHo fans, BroHo didn't rush the beginning because they thought of 03, the beginning was as bad in the manga.

Pacing ultra fast, literally no character development, Ed is a fucking cliche shounen anime protagonist, cliche ending, etc etc.

The crap Ed spout in BroHo and how much he got away with it was terrible. FMAB took every moment to paint the Brothers in a good light.

I could go on and and on
 
Apr 7, 9:28 AM
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Hiei said:
FMA Brotherhood is way better, FMA sucks

FMAB stays true to the manga, it is amazing.

What if I said the manga's garbage?
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Jun 22, 7:55 AM

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Brotherhood is very overrated, that's why.
I like how the Anime community acts like a bunch of Commie hippies, "We the Anime community!"

It's just a bunch of different circlejerks who all hate each other and their own kind.
 
Jul 7, 6:14 AM
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I like both by the way
Cuz' both FMA got a very strong story
But the FMA has not really good ending, so FMA:B repair that
 
Jul 12, 11:50 PM
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RX-782 said:
RLinksoul said:


Sounds like you still carry some emotional Baggins from it.


If Father had the power to stop alchemy, why didn't he do it against ed and every one else?



In addition to Hohenheims circle, Scar and the Ishvalans activate another circle that disconnects Father from the alchemists so they are able to get energy directly from the tectonic plates instead of it going through Father.
 
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