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Poll: Psycho-Pass Episode 14 Discussion


Jan 26, 2013 6:53 AM
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Tyrel said:
My god the Sibyl system is messed up because of it people just sit idly thinking "This isn't real, there's no way." Yeah okay...Great episode nonetheless 5/5.


Well, more kinda like 'what was that? Nah, he just having some 'fun' beating & raping her to death & it's none of our business.'. *Taking pictures*

SylakentH_ said:
wow fucked up episode, really enjoyed it :)


Yeah, that's pretty fucked-up & I feel speechless right now.. *Shudders*
Modified by JafriZin, Jan 26, 2013 6:57 AM
 
Jan 26, 2013 8:44 AM

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Wasn't Kogami fighting a guy wearing the helmet on top of the highrise while makashima was watching in the prologue in episode 1?

Btw those helmets symbolize the ring of gyles,

My guess is that Makashima will have a huge army of those people wearing helmets, terrorizing the city.

Cant wait to see that.
Modified by Star_Boy, Jan 26, 2013 9:12 AM
 
Jan 26, 2013 10:07 AM

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Danielcook said:
Wasn't Kogami fighting a guy wearing the helmet on top of the highrise while makashima was watching in the prologue in episode 1?

Btw those helmets symbolize the ring of gyles,

My guess is that Makashima will have a huge army of those people wearing helmets, terrorizing the city.

Cant wait to see that.


Yes he was, + he was unable to shoot him with the Dominator only after the guy fell out of the building. Kinda weird considering the mask would have registered Kogami's CC at a certain point OR they fought for a short while, maybe the dude was a bait to lure Kogami out or something.

Makishima said he knows "they wil see through the trick" but hmm you may be right. Here we are, another Plato reference.
Isn't this show full of surprises?
The world is the illusion of the real world.
 
Jan 26, 2013 10:21 AM

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Whoaa, this society is seriously messed up!! No one even cares about some guy hammering a girl. And see what Makishima said, it's just people killing, nothing serious. Now that's new, and disturbing.
The episode this week is full of wicked ways to kill a person, huh. Well, the show is getting more n more interesting.
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Jan 26, 2013 12:30 PM

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Isn't it kind of strange that they can bypass the system this easily?
 
Jan 26, 2013 1:05 PM

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I love the new OP & ED animations.
Shougo can kick ass too; awesome.
 
Jan 26, 2013 1:13 PM

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Damn, that helmet is a pretty clever tool. Seeing all those people get assaulted without anyone doing anything was pretty gruesome.
 
Jan 26, 2013 3:21 PM
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Very good and clever episode. Keeps getting better and better and Makishima is a very good and intriguing villain.

4/5 Liked it.
 
Jan 26, 2013 6:15 PM
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Is it me or the OP and ED changes a lot? Whatever it is, I hope the ones used on this episode are kept ´til they finish the series.
"Often times words are uttered that stand directly opposed to what the heart is feeling. I believe, in spite o whatever harsh words are spoken, the concealed heart wants to embrace everyone"
 
Jan 26, 2013 7:23 PM
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JeffreyZin said:

Great, I guess I am the only one who got emotional in this one but NO one seems to agree with me though about that happened.

I mean let's see:-

Killing a doctor by stuffing through his mouth with a scissor & stab him to death, CHECK.
Killing a nurse with a pen till the screen goes black wondering what happened, CHECK.
Screaming for help but NOBODY cares about it, CHECK.
Shogo using a baseball bat & plummet the bad guy's mouth into death, CHECK.


Oh well, most of our PP are probably really high by the series' standard so I wouldn't count on it. Plus Makishima kinda makes an interesting antagonist.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
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On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
Jan 26, 2013 8:29 PM
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Awesome things this episode:

Masaoka's PP is higher than Kougami's since it chose Kougami's PP to imitate when they chased him into the warehosue. It picks the lowest PP in the surrounding 30 feet...

Episode 1 is explained, the goon was too close to Makishima so Kougami was unable to shoot him. Once he was kicked out the window he was far enough away for the helmet to only detect Kougami allowing him to shoot.

The populace is so accustomed to Sybil that they no longer have any distrust of other humans if they are in an area with scans. Even when someone is dieing in front of them, they are so confused we can assume they think its an illusion or actors, since its completely illogical for someone to be killed in the middle of the street in their eyes.
 
Jan 26, 2013 8:45 PM

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Finally done with the graphics so on to explaining my thoughts. First of all the crimes done in this episode are totally disgusting and not acceptable. WTF at public rape like and abuse in front of a scanner despite the helmet? Still totally unfounded. Bet most people though it was either a setup or they were SHEEP! Funny thing is there are plenty of videos showing how people are more and more SHEEP towards others due to the gov among other factors.

This episode totally showed how abuse can be done to the system provided you have the right tech against it. Certainly the helmet proved itself quite effective in that.

About the OP2, it’s amazing! First of all the following,

Just that part of the OP made me think of a mixture between Pulp Fiction the movie and the James Bond movies. Kougami is top notch there!

The colouring really reflects the HAZE and feels of Pulp Fiction and the old school arts.

Even the credits are very artful and enticing!

While Makishima is shown with a RED BOOK. For the information BOOK = knowledge and power. RED = provocation. Therefore provocation through intelligence. Indeed it’s what Makishima is. A instigator of SOCIAL CHAOS! With knowledge it’s the easiest to do.

Akane shown the way she is looks to me like she will slip out and get really bad a fall. What kind seems to allude towards fear and escape but remains to see why she is shown like that. It’s very worrisome TBH.

Love the Dominator and how it’s shown along with how it falls down as a meaning to show it being useless.

Love the sudden fight of Kougami in one segment of the new OP. It shows the colours very well IMO.

The cube also has its doubts. As to why sink into a blood stream full of red cells? It can be seen as a meaning itself towards the system being stained by murder, which when you think about it, it’s what is done to people like Makishima. Kidnapping and shooting to die. Most likely by people like Makishima.

I liked a lot how the team is shown but more how Akane and Kougami’s path will all the time cross between them. So they shall be amazing partners in thee end while already they are quite amazing.

Finally did you all see that Revolver? AH YESSSSSSSSSS! HEAD SHOT BABY! I CALL HEAD SHOT! To Makishima! It will be JOYS OF JOYS to see the shit get a bullet in his head from a 44 or 357 MAGNUM! It’s either but I think the revolver is a 44 Police issued.


About the ED2, glorious Akane is GLORIOUS THERE! Loved how she is shown nicely. It’s also nice they a distortion happening like the system will be warped. This a nice foreshadow that a lot will be warped and HAZED with Makishima’s chaos making. Finally all are seen naked at the end but are censored which makes it interesting to see that perhaps this is to show that no one knows anymore of their real self or reality in terms of themselves. This is shown easily through have the bodies blurred out as to allude to “WTF am I?” Basically IMO.

About crime 1, DISGUSTING! The first victim got scissor stabbed in the mouth and got forced into a puncture of it’s throat. Making the death instant and no pain but horrible and horrid to say the least with all the blood.

The girl is far far worse. She got stabbed by pen like objects. It was so bad they had to censor the penetration of the eyes and face. That’s apart from knowing that in the crime scene after and of the stab on her leg. Suffice to say she had the most horrible death and suffering one at that. She most likely bled out with horrid pain unlike her partner whom was instant.

All of that for F what? Drugs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotropic
Like weed and such? Man what a NUT CASE! Killing him is the best.

About crime 2, it was not disgusting but how to say this. Puking your guts out type. OK let’s recap here. Fujii Hiroko is a nice girl and she was all cool when suddenly a first hammer blow happens to her. Now WTF at her not moving nor doing anything but standing there. A example of being Sheep already. Obviously hit happens and blood but the way they showed made you really slowly see the details whom I find being a good staring setup.

Now what follows is ridiculous. No one does shit! All are sheep. The stupid ass droid keeps thinking it’s only her, while being hammered and kind of raped, having her clothing teared off and coughing up blood while being in such a sorry state. I was really in disbelief nothing was done at all by shit all. Really bad IMO.

Now if that was not enough the person leaves with no problems and no one again does shit to even tail him and stuff. WOW! Bunch loser people in this kind of society.

About crime 3, not sure what up of that security van but I do know the guys were pretty wild in using a Nail gun and and a Torch as weapons. Kind of funny and sad of the robot being killed off. Poor thing.

About Shion, I loved her coordination to trap Itoh Junmei in that warehouse and of her facial up-closes. Those were quite nice.

About Akane, she was mainly interesting in her facials but what I really liked about her is how Kougami really helped her out and that her doubts over the system are shown very well and nicely. Effectively following from last episode hence pace is good.

About Itoh Junmei, when I found out of him with a exploration of his room. Right away I knew that he is finished. Let’s see:
-Having a room full of Fujii Hiroko with Xs on her pics.
-Having mannequins to practice his killing moves on.
-Being a mess from the point of his room.
That tells me a lot. There is enough proof to incarcerate him.

About doubt,it is to know that doubt before was how society was and that it now his gone with the use of the Sibyl system. From it’s definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubt
It is to conclude that since a system now does the mediator all doubts are entrusted to be null according to the system. So really if a innocent person is condemned if the person says they are guilty then they are?

This to to finalize that the system is no more different than a corrupted judge that you can bribe or that as a result is as imperfect as the system itself is.

About the book Makishima was reading, I found around the NET this:-A revolution sabotaged before it began:

The books that are read by anyone in this series are important. In this episode Makishima was reading a book that was translated as A Revolution Sabotaged Before it Began by Iwagami Yasumi. In Japanese the title is (Arakajime uragirareta kakumei) or, very literally, “beforehand has been betrayed revolution” in slightly better (though still very literal) English “A Revolution that has been Betrayed Beforehand.”

This book won the Kodansha Award in Nonfiction in 1996. I found the book on Amazon Japan and translated the plot synopsis/summary:

An escalation in ethnic conflict comes with the collapse of Communism. Darkness is closing in on the large, ailing country of Russia.

The Soviet [Union], the 20th Century’s greatest [largest] experiment, collapses miserably. This is a time when the Mafia dominates the cities running rampant with mammonism, and bloody ethnic conflict intensifies in the rural areas surrounding them. Dreams have grown faded and desires have been stripped away. This Kodansha Award winner for non-fiction, thoroughly gathers information [from when] Russia was forced into darkness, an plunges right into the heart of the major historic shifts in [such cities as] Moscow, Georgia, and Chechnya.

The above is a very rough translation, but I think you can get the gist of what is going on in this book he is reading. And, of course, this seems to reflect slightly the world that the people of Psycho-Pass live in. The Mafia does not necessarily control everything, but those with power are keeping power and greed will be, I do not doubt, a motive behind all of this (whether for riches or for the greed of having a large amount of authority).
Basically it means that Makishima was getting knowledge for his plan from a point of making multi riots in the city so as to overthrow the system itself. By being all powerful like the Mafia was, he devised a plan to do the same as the book by undermining the system with too much to handle and not enough people to do the job.

Could be that in thee end all droids will be equipped with a Dominator and be used as extra personal. That would result in total order at a unfair price.

About thee end, it shows us that Makishima is not only smart but knows martial arts Very well TBH. He got all 3 muscles guys with them and moreover insulted them good beforehand.

The question to ask yourself is: “Does Makishima have every right for his claim to done in order to improve society?” Sadly the answer is NO! For there is no right in instigating riots as a mean against the system to an end of killing off people, making people kill and worst of all thinking of it benefiting in stopping them from being sheep but in reality it does nothing but harm the current society itself.

In other words Makishima in what he is doing is WRONG! Society is better off as it is then before. If the order is better than the past one then it should be like that. What benefit would freedom as it was be to humans when they killed each other more, raped each other more and most of all were not in check therefore able to do things of criminal proportions. Now it’s stealing for the most and petty crimes that are not detected right away. Much better IMO than before.

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Jan 26, 2013 10:55 PM
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Very good ep and I like the changes made to the op & ed themes. So it seems Makishima's goal in the ep was to wreak havoc using the helmet as a means to reveal flaws in the Sibyl system's security and the problems that come with its reliance on the dominator and the psychopass to identify disorder. If the system wasn't designed to identify anomalies and implement countermeasures (i.e the helmet), then security based on the psychopass is useless. I find interesting how little details serve to address the point in how citizens have come to rely too much on machines. i.e when the woman was being beat to a pulp, the robot was unable to understand the situation (in our view of course) because it relied on the psychopass and regulations that were made with it in mind.
 
Jan 27, 2013 2:08 AM

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How come cash is still being used and transported in trucks in this future world?
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Jan 27, 2013 5:57 AM
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^
Maybe those are antique currency for collector use.
 
Jan 27, 2013 6:41 AM

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symbv said:
How come cash is still being used and transported in trucks in this future world?
Was that cash? I thought they were drugs or something along those lines.
 
Jan 27, 2013 6:59 AM

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I'm sorry, but the over-exaggeration of the citizen's desensitisation to crime and violence was actually very contradictory given what the show has portrayed and demonstrated up until now. In the very first episode, an ordinary woman is traumatised as she is kidnapped and potentially raped (note, before and during the crime has been committed), and as such has her own psycho pass and more importantly her sanity affected. In other episodes, it is said that being the victim or even just a close witness to a crime is enough to effect ones psycho pass. Akane's friend who dies becomes somewhat terrified by the prospect of violence and a criminal act being performed upon her, despite assumedly being just the same as those people walking the city streets, and is appropriately warned by Kougami to remain calm. Akane herself can maintain a low psycho pass at most times, and yet is aware of when violence and criminality is in action.
Even if they couldn't comprehend a suitable way to act, the bystanders would have reacted in some way given what the series has shown so far. Indeed, if the series lore is to be believed, the rising stress level should have been enough to greatly degrade at least a few peoples' psycho passes. And yet, nothing. Blank faces and not even a suggestion of someone being horrified or terrified. This completely undermines one of the main themes of the series, the uncanny - if moral 'darkness' can still exist within a society that is, through its Big Brother like systems, supposed to at least maintain a facade of being spotless, then the inherent instinct of all animals to become frightened or flee when faced with horrific scenes should also remain. To suggest that these people have had this primal intuition purged from them is ludicrous.
Not only does it undermine the show's premises, it also contradicts what the characters themselves say: Ginoza and co. believe that if people were to discover that the system is imperfect it would cause mass hysteria, but the scene explicitly demonstrates that the supposedly average people of this society cannot experience the most fundamental form of panic i.e. anxiety in what should be a fight-or-flight situation. If you cannot panic in this sense, then it is unlikely you can panic at all, because all subconscious and largely automatic responses develop as reactions to psychological archetypes (being afraid of the dark and clowns as a child etc.), and between having your governmental/judicial system subverted and witnessing someone being bludgeoned to death, the latter definitely more closely resembles such archetypes.
What's more, the fact that literary classics that deal with horrifying events are still available, and that virtual online communities exist comprised of imagery focused solely around tropes that originate from Gothic literature (a genre that deals extensively with the uncanny and other horrors originating from the unconscious) suggests that many in society are still aware of the concept of terror and horror in at least some sense.
All in all, the most disappointing episode of an otherwise great series. Hope it gets back on track next episode.

Edit: to all those muppets pretentiously trying to justify this through application of the 'bystander effect', what I have outlined above explains why this would be a deeply erroneous plot element. The bystander effect applies to situations in which ones own safety and well being are either not in jeopardy or can be maintained by not involving oneself - one consciously comprehends and decides that interjecting in a mugging or a bar fight could lead to oneself being hurt, which isn't worth helping a stranger to not get hurt or stolen from in many peoples' minds. The more people that appear to draw this conclusion and thus simply observe, the more you feel secure in your decision to do the same, and thus the elicited effect becomes more exaggerated the more people there are. However, the scene shown was one the would directly indicate to ones subconscious that they themselves are in mortal peril if they remain where they are. It doesn't matter that they've never witnessed something such as this first hand before, their unconscious response would be to either stop the assault or to run. Think: how many times have you heard someone scream or make a shocked noise simply because someone sneaks up behind them or walks around a corner unexpectedly? Even if you had never experienced violence in your life, many would give the same reaction, because it is a brief elicitation of inherent panic. Thus, even in a world where crime is supposedly non-existent and the system is meant to keep you safe, your unconscious responses would not be overridden even if your conscious thought was. Indeed, the fact that the people are described as not knowing what they were witnessing or what to do pretty much confirms that this cannot be bystander syndrome, because the effect is based on a conscious evaluation that your safety or stature is not worth risking through intervention, and that responsibility can thus be passed off to somewhere else. For bystander effect to be applied to this case, the people would ultimately have to believe that responsibility for handling this clearly violent crime would be with the Sibyl system, and yet the people cannot possibly believe such a thing because they supposedly live under the delusion that the system prevents any such thing from happening, and the revelation that this is not the case would apparently cause panic (which, as described above, would actually be impossible given the implication that they have been desensitised to even the most basic form of panic). The fact that people have been shown to be able to evaluate threats and danger on at least a subconscious level in previous episodes ultimately makes the fact that all the bystanders give little to no reaction seem completely ridiculous.
Modified by MerelyPlayers, Jan 27, 2013 7:51 AM
 
Jan 27, 2013 8:03 AM
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Whoa, poor girl, gotten killed and nobody came to her aide not even the sibly system.
 
Jan 27, 2013 10:37 AM

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lizardking461 said:
The fact that people have been shown to be able to evaluate threats and danger on at least a subconscious level in previous episodes ultimately makes the fact that all the bystanders give little to no reaction seem completely ridiculous.


and everything else you said.
I shall pass by the fact that you insult everyone by calling them muppets. That is not nice.
I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. OFC people will always have an instinctive reaction, like when they get scared and they jump 5 feet. But I don't really think that has anything to do with "panic" it's just a second worth or reaction to something, it's not conscious. And it does not require you to have "experienced violence". Because if by these short instinctive reactions you understand that the person feels like "defending" himself, because of the previous experience. But these reactions can be caused by experiences that don't involve violence towards one's person.... like when a glass is pushed down from a table and you suddenly grab it instinctively. You don't do it because you were raped or hit in the head by some rapist someday in the past.

I agree that we saw people running and having a devensive, conscious attitude towards the person that was harming them. Like in the first epis with that woman being raped. But her panic reaction and hue were totally realistic since she was perfectly "working" while the horrible things were happening to her. She was being raped so the thing was happening and she was trying to save herself. The same thing didn't happen with this current woman because she is hit in the head. You can see her bleeding from the head right from the moment she falls to the ground, in a half unconscious state as her vision blurs while she is killed.
The guy filming the scene says something like "some good violent stuff" but I assumed he is Makishima''s partner somehow.

As to WHY the hue of the other people isn't affected... that is interesting. But there is also something to be noted. Akane's hue. Why is Akane's hue okay? Why is Ginoza's father hue not okay when he is clearly not a bad person nor does he want to hurt others. In fact his story sounded more like "I didn't like the system because it seemed unethical to me to arrest ppl before they commited a crime so that's why I got to the enforcers' side". Lol?

Ginoza says in this ep that "we no longer need to doubt others". To me that, along with the bystanders acting that weird, is just picturing how they actually didn't evaluate the scene as something "bad", as something possible. It was just surprising, but just as normal people in such case would just sit there and hope someone else would do something, they also sat there expecting the system to do something because the system never fails. While the system didn't do anything, they maybe assumed nothing is wrong.

Why do you think the robots were here ? It was no longer a solitary scene, when someone was being murdered and people could panic because they were ALONE. they were NOT alone. It was all under the protecting all-seeing eye of the never mistaken Sibyl system, where people don't need to doubt or care about anything.

It makes perfect logical sense. I know in REALITY, maybe things wouldn't turn this way. Because ofc it always depends on extraordinary individuals that happen to be there at the right moment. But in this case there were no heroes. Also conseider that the Sibyl robots, in front of EVERYBODY, went to question the hue of the victim, the one that supposedly needed help. They didn't attack the attacker... People would probably be cautious as to go help the one with the questioned hue. Only Akane was shown to have this kind of exceptional voluntary attitude, while the rest of the people are clearly reticent towards how she acts... So you see, discussing this matter requires a good perception of the individualism of the society as it is presented in the series. You can;t compare it to our real world. OFC< this also means that there is no guarantee that in a real life situation things would happen like this, there are some concepts we can work with to try to explain, but we don't have the necessary experience at these proportions to be able to know for sure. But this is fiction, and this the invented society that took this turn given some fictional settups. The setup itself is probably impossible in our world, where I guess nobody would accept something like the sibyl system.
 
Jan 27, 2013 11:13 AM
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Real sh!t hits the fan in this episode. So much gore and violence every one's PP/CC would turn cloudy upon watching. But seriously, the scene with those bystanders watching and taking videos of that woman get beat up by some crazy helmet guy is somehow a close depiction of our YouTube obsessed world today.
 
Jan 27, 2013 11:30 AM
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lizardking461 said:
I'm sorry, but the over-exaggeration of the citizen's desensitisation to crime and violence was actually very contradictory given what the show has portrayed and demonstrated up until now.


The story is set in a dystopian future. I suggest you read reviews of Psycho-Pass from Random Curiosity or from Lost in Anime just to understand it more further. Makishima has already noted in this episode the flaws of Sibyl and how every one has become a puppet of that system.
 
Jan 27, 2013 12:49 PM

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Holy craaap. That new OP animation. Did not expect such a wonderous beauty such as this. Ever since they changed to the second OP, I haven't been looking forward to watching them. But then, THIS episode happened. I'm in love with it, I take back my negative comments about the new song. The stellar visuals places this OP nearer to the first in terms of greatness. I watched it again, and again... and again, before I continued to the episode proper. I hope the show keeps this version until the end.

The episode was incredible. In my opinion, the show has returned to the tension-filled mini-arcs of prior eps. I loved how graphic and blunt it was with the murders. I felt disgusted when the helmet guy bludgeoned the woman in the street. It was sickening to watch the bystanders do nothing, or even began recording it on their mobile phones.

Kougami proves why he's top dog again with his investigative skills. And Yayoi still has really delicious lips...

Loved the new bright visuals for the ED. I especially appreciated the abundance of illustrations of Akane. She looked particularly moe and cute here. In fact, I think the visuals through the show have been incredible so far. I'm very impression with Production I.G's work here.

Yes, this is the Psycho Pass I look used to look forward to watching and I'm glad it's returned.
 
Jan 27, 2013 12:53 PM

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I expect Urobuchi to unleash himself from this episode onward xD.
"If Eren boned Historia then we'll be getting flashbacks right back to Ymir, from both of them."
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Jan 27, 2013 12:58 PM

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chinvincible said:
lizardking461 said:
I'm sorry, but the over-exaggeration of the citizen's desensitisation to crime and violence was actually very contradictory given what the show has portrayed and demonstrated up until now.


The story is set in a dystopian future. I suggest you read reviews of Psycho-Pass from Random Curiosity or from Lost in Anime just to understand it more further. Makishima has already noted in this episode the flaws of Sibyl and how every one has become a puppet of that system.


You clearly didn't read anything that I wrote...
 
Jan 27, 2013 1:16 PM

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Makshima was so awesome <3 fighting I mean but the way he killed the guy is just.... a little too much?
 
Jan 27, 2013 3:00 PM

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Enjoyable episode but that bystander effect felt a bit out of place as it seems to be contradicting somehow with first crime and the others scenes already shown in previews episodes. Lizardking461 explains it well.
 
Jan 27, 2013 3:29 PM

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huntx said:
Enjoyable episode but that bystander effect felt a bit out of place as it seems to be contradicting somehow with first crime and the others scenes already shown in previews episodes. Lizardking461 explains it well.
lizardking461 said:
You clearly didn't read anything that I wrote...

Since you guys didn't read what Morridine wrote, I guess everyone's even.
 
Jan 27, 2013 3:38 PM

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Litrydow said:
huntx said:
Enjoyable episode but that bystander effect felt a bit out of place as it seems to be contradicting somehow with first crime and the others scenes already shown in previews episodes. Lizardking461 explains it well.
lizardking461 said:
You clearly didn't read anything that I wrote...

Since you guys didn't read what Morridine wrote, I guess everyone's even.

I read what he wrote and every other long posts, there good points but did not convince me.
 
Jan 27, 2013 5:02 PM
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If you're wondering about the bystander effect / And other psychological facts / Then repeat after me, 'It's just a show, / I should really just relax.'

La la la is optional.

In other words http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra
In other words: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BellisariosMaxim
In other words, everyone can see the flaws of the show, some people deny it and other people criticise it, but in the end Urobutcher selected the scene as the best possible way of getting his message across in twenty-three minutes. Psycho Pass is a soft dystopia and the good bits are likely left to our imagination because of time constraints and a point about free will which is probably pushed too hard by our friendly author mouthpieces: Shogo and Kogami.

The words muppet, sheep and sheeple are best reserved for Apple fanboys. You haven't seen anything worthy of those words yet if you haven't seen them in action. I am not commenting on the prevalence of Apple products in Psycho Pass.

Also not commenting on Siri's reply when you ask her where you can hide a dead body.
 
Jan 27, 2013 7:54 PM

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lizardking461 said:
I'm sorry, but the over-exaggeration of the citizen's desensitisation to crime and violence was actually very contradictory given what the show has portrayed and demonstrated up until now. In the very first episode, an ordinary woman is traumatised as she is kidnapped and potentially raped (note, before and during the crime has been committed), and as such has her own psycho pass and more importantly her sanity affected. In other episodes, it is said that being the victim or even just a close witness to a crime is enough to effect ones psycho pass. Akane's friend who dies becomes somewhat terrified by the prospect of violence and a criminal act being performed upon her, despite assumedly being just the same as those people walking the city streets, and is appropriately warned by Kougami to remain calm. Akane herself can maintain a low psycho pass at most times, and yet is aware of when violence and criminality is in action.
Even if they couldn't comprehend a suitable way to act, the bystanders would have reacted in some way given what the series has shown so far. Indeed, if the series lore is to be believed, the rising stress level should have been enough to greatly degrade at least a few peoples' psycho passes. And yet, nothing. Blank faces and not even a suggestion of someone being horrified or terrified. This completely undermines one of the main themes of the series, the uncanny - if moral 'darkness' can still exist within a society that is, through its Big Brother like systems, supposed to at least maintain a facade of being spotless, then the inherent instinct of all animals to become frightened or flee when faced with horrific scenes should also remain. To suggest that these people have had this primal intuition purged from them is ludicrous.
Not only does it undermine the show's premises, it also contradicts what the characters themselves say: Ginoza and co. believe that if people were to discover that the system is imperfect it would cause mass hysteria, but the scene explicitly demonstrates that the supposedly average people of this society cannot experience the most fundamental form of panic i.e. anxiety in what should be a fight-or-flight situation. If you cannot panic in this sense, then it is unlikely you can panic at all, because all subconscious and largely automatic responses develop as reactions to psychological archetypes (being afraid of the dark and clowns as a child etc.), and between having your governmental/judicial system subverted and witnessing someone being bludgeoned to death, the latter definitely more closely resembles such archetypes.
What's more, the fact that literary classics that deal with horrifying events are still available, and that virtual online communities exist comprised of imagery focused solely around tropes that originate from Gothic literature (a genre that deals extensively with the uncanny and other horrors originating from the unconscious) suggests that many in society are still aware of the concept of terror and horror in at least some sense.
All in all, the most disappointing episode of an otherwise great series. Hope it gets back on track next episode.

Edit: to all those muppets pretentiously trying to justify this through application of the 'bystander effect', what I have outlined above explains why this would be a deeply erroneous plot element. The bystander effect applies to situations in which ones own safety and well being are either not in jeopardy or can be maintained by not involving oneself - one consciously comprehends and decides that interjecting in a mugging or a bar fight could lead to oneself being hurt, which isn't worth helping a stranger to not get hurt or stolen from in many peoples' minds. The more people that appear to draw this conclusion and thus simply observe, the more you feel secure in your decision to do the same, and thus the elicited effect becomes more exaggerated the more people there are. However, the scene shown was one the would directly indicate to ones subconscious that they themselves are in mortal peril if they remain where they are. It doesn't matter that they've never witnessed something such as this first hand before, their unconscious response would be to either stop the assault or to run. Think: how many times have you heard someone scream or make a shocked noise simply because someone sneaks up behind them or walks around a corner unexpectedly? Even if you had never experienced violence in your life, many would give the same reaction, because it is a brief elicitation of inherent panic. Thus, even in a world where crime is supposedly non-existent and the system is meant to keep you safe, your unconscious responses would not be overridden even if your conscious thought was. Indeed, the fact that the people are described as not knowing what they were witnessing or what to do pretty much confirms that this cannot be bystander syndrome, because the effect is based on a conscious evaluation that your safety or stature is not worth risking through intervention, and that responsibility can thus be passed off to somewhere else. For bystander effect to be applied to this case, the people would ultimately have to believe that responsibility for handling this clearly violent crime would be with the Sibyl system, and yet the people cannot possibly believe such a thing because they supposedly live under the delusion that the system prevents any such thing from happening, and the revelation that this is not the case would apparently cause panic (which, as described above, would actually be impossible given the implication that they have been desensitised to even the most basic form of panic). The fact that people have been shown to be able to evaluate threats and danger on at least a subconscious level in previous episodes ultimately makes the fact that all the bystanders give little to no reaction seem completely ridiculous.


You're misunderstand the situations here, Psycho Pass can raise rapidly if is a VICTIM, or someone involved more deeply in the situation, and in this case, they were truthfull and the victim that have the psycho pass raising easily(that's why the drone reacted). As for the Area Stress, Masaoka said that was just a small change in the criminal's psycho pass (39,2)and the psycho pass was from a witness, so, the area stress don't affect in the way you think.

As for the bystander effect, interpretation plays a great role in those cases, so its not only in the cases where people are willing to take responsibility or not, in the case of Psycho Pass, a society that is rarely affected by emergency, danger, crime, or other factors that can affect their psychological is on total diferent level than our reality, you can't just ignore this. As stated in the episode, they even dont know what is going on, so their subconcious didn't interpretated the situation as an emergency, and this is totaly possible given the context.
 
Jan 28, 2013 10:59 AM
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lizardking461 said:
I'm sorry, but the over-exaggeration of the citizen's desensitisation to crime and violence was actually very contradictory given what the show has portrayed and demonstrated up until now. In the very first episode, an ordinary woman is traumatised as she is kidnapped and potentially raped (note, before and during the crime has been committed), and as such has her own psycho pass and more importantly her sanity affected. In other episodes, it is said that being the victim or even just a close witness to a crime is enough to effect ones psycho pass. Akane's friend who dies becomes somewhat terrified by the prospect of violence and a criminal act being performed upon her, despite assumedly being just the same as those people walking the city streets, and is appropriately warned by Kougami to remain calm. Akane herself can maintain a low psycho pass at most times, and yet is aware of when violence and criminality is in action.
Even if they couldn't comprehend a suitable way to act, the bystanders would have reacted in some way given what the series has shown so far. Indeed, if the series lore is to be believed, the rising stress level should have been enough to greatly degrade at least a few peoples' psycho passes. And yet, nothing. Blank faces and not even a suggestion of someone being horrified or terrified. This completely undermines one of the main themes of the series, the uncanny - if moral 'darkness' can still exist within a society that is, through its Big Brother like systems, supposed to at least maintain a facade of being spotless, then the inherent instinct of all animals to become frightened or flee when faced with horrific scenes should also remain. To suggest that these people have had this primal intuition purged from them is ludicrous.
Not only does it undermine the show's premises, it also contradicts what the characters themselves say: Ginoza and co. believe that if people were to discover that the system is imperfect it would cause mass hysteria, but the scene explicitly demonstrates that the supposedly average people of this society cannot experience the most fundamental form of panic i.e. anxiety in what should be a fight-or-flight situation. If you cannot panic in this sense, then it is unlikely you can panic at all, because all subconscious and largely automatic responses develop as reactions to psychological archetypes (being afraid of the dark and clowns as a child etc.), and between having your governmental/judicial system subverted and witnessing someone being bludgeoned to death, the latter definitely more closely resembles such archetypes.
What's more, the fact that literary classics that deal with horrifying events are still available, and that virtual online communities exist comprised of imagery focused solely around tropes that originate from Gothic literature (a genre that deals extensively with the uncanny and other horrors originating from the unconscious) suggests that many in society are still aware of the concept of terror and horror in at least some sense.
All in all, the most disappointing episode of an otherwise great series. Hope it gets back on track next episode.

Edit: to all those muppets pretentiously trying to justify this through application of the 'bystander effect', what I have outlined above explains why this would be a deeply erroneous plot element. The bystander effect applies to situations in which ones own safety and well being are either not in jeopardy or can be maintained by not involving oneself - one consciously comprehends and decides that interjecting in a mugging or a bar fight could lead to oneself being hurt, which isn't worth helping a stranger to not get hurt or stolen from in many peoples' minds. The more people that appear to draw this conclusion and thus simply observe, the more you feel secure in your decision to do the same, and thus the elicited effect becomes more exaggerated the more people there are. However, the scene shown was one the would directly indicate to ones subconscious that they themselves are in mortal peril if they remain where they are. It doesn't matter that they've never witnessed something such as this first hand before, their unconscious response would be to either stop the assault or to run. Think: how many times have you heard someone scream or make a shocked noise simply because someone sneaks up behind them or walks around a corner unexpectedly? Even if you had never experienced violence in your life, many would give the same reaction, because it is a brief elicitation of inherent panic. Thus, even in a world where crime is supposedly non-existent and the system is meant to keep you safe, your unconscious responses would not be overridden even if your conscious thought was. Indeed, the fact that the people are described as not knowing what they were witnessing or what to do pretty much confirms that this cannot be bystander syndrome, because the effect is based on a conscious evaluation that your safety or stature is not worth risking through intervention, and that responsibility can thus be passed off to somewhere else. For bystander effect to be applied to this case, the people would ultimately have to believe that responsibility for handling this clearly violent crime would be with the Sibyl system, and yet the people cannot possibly believe such a thing because they supposedly live under the delusion that the system prevents any such thing from happening, and the revelation that this is not the case would apparently cause panic (which, as described above, would actually be impossible given the implication that they have been desensitised to even the most basic form of panic). The fact that people have been shown to be able to evaluate threats and danger on at least a subconscious level in previous episodes ultimately makes the fact that all the bystanders give little to no reaction seem completely ridiculous.


Area stress level is a notification that an areas psycho pass is increasing.

Otherwise, tl;dr.

I don't know the basis for your argument, because threat recognition has only happened when something is happening to them, not someone else.

Your claims of contradictory statements as well are... interesting...

For example, what if religion was proved to be bullshit? Mass hysteria would ensue, when people don't know what to turn to, they instinctually panic, because it is now their issue that they don't have an outlet to their problems, the same would apply with the sibyl system.

You claiming that people don't panic in this society just makes me think you are looking for flaws, and not actually watching the episode. Connect the dots with the pharmacy girl and read the previous paragraph.

I am sorry dude, but I really feel you are trying too hard to prove weak and circumstantial at best points.
Modified by limpbuttman, Jan 28, 2013 11:06 AM
 
Jan 28, 2013 11:53 AM

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Fuck this violence.

Why did they have to show this shit?

If this shitty show does that again it's dropped.
Fuck you IG for your retarded taste in violence and gore I hate you!
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwerVFCY-50PTBnedey1PQ
 
Jan 28, 2013 12:09 PM
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Orsonius said:
Fuck this violence.

Why did they have to show this shit?

If this shitty show does that again it's dropped.
Fuck you IG for your retarded taste in violence and gore I hate you!


Drop it now, it won't stop.
 
Jan 28, 2013 1:59 PM

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Orsonius said:
Fuck this violence.

Why did they have to show this shit?

If this shitty show does that again it's dropped.
Fuck you IG for your retarded taste in violence and gore I hate you!


Better get going then.
 
Jan 28, 2013 2:50 PM

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Orsonius said:
Fuck this violence.

Why did they have to show this shit?

If this shitty show does that again it's dropped.
Fuck you IG for your retarded taste in violence and gore I hate you!


Here we've got a sheep of Sibyl.
 
Jan 28, 2013 3:11 PM

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But the music is soo good...

Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwerVFCY-50PTBnedey1PQ
 
Jan 28, 2013 3:36 PM

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Morridine said:
lizardking461 said:
The fact that people have been shown to be able to evaluate threats and danger on at least a subconscious level in previous episodes ultimately makes the fact that all the bystanders give little to no reaction seem completely ridiculous.


and everything else you said.

I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. OFC people will always have an instinctive reaction, like when they get scared and they jump 5 feet. But I don't really think that has anything to do with "panic" it's just a second worth or reaction to something, it's not conscious. And it does not require you to have "experienced violence". Because if by these short instinctive reactions you understand that the person feels like "defending" himself, because of the previous experience. But these reactions can be caused by experiences that don't involve violence towards one's person.... like when a glass is pushed down from a table and you suddenly grab it instinctively. You don't do it because you were raped or hit in the head by some rapist someday in the past.

I agree that we saw people running and having a devensive, conscious attitude towards the person that was harming them. Like in the first epis with that woman being raped. But her panic reaction and hue were totally realistic since she was perfectly "working" while the horrible things were happening to her. She was being raped so the thing was happening and she was trying to save herself. The same thing didn't happen with this current woman because she is hit in the head. You can see her bleeding from the head right from the moment she falls to the ground, in a half unconscious state as her vision blurs while she is killed.
The guy filming the scene says something like "some good violent stuff" but I assumed he is Makishima''s partner somehow.

So you see, discussing this matter requires a good perception of the individualism of the society as it is presented in the series. You can't compare it to our real world. OFC< this also means that there is no guarantee that in a real life situation things would happen like this, there are some concepts we can work with to try to explain, but we don't have the necessary experience at these proportions to be able to know for sure. But this is fiction, and this the invented society that took this turn given some fictional settups. The setup itself is probably impossible in our world, where I guess nobody would accept something like the sibyl system.

@lizardking461
Undeniably, what you said made sense. However, do take into consideration that the situation is different compared to those in previous episodes. When you are held captive and, at the same time cornered by a criminal like the woman in the first episode, it is only normal for one to display signs of fear and fall into despair.

But the same thing does not apply for every time something similar would to happen. For instance, there is a huge crowd this time around. Even if people would normally panic instinctively, they might hold it in and cling to the belief that the Sibyl system would not allow such things to happen. They find it reassuring and acceptable to just stare indifferently at the victim as she was bludgeoned to death. Reason? Because nobody acted any differently. What they seek are a sense of security and peace of mind, even if they have to be ignorant and overlook the grave matter right in front of their eyes.

You can't really compare it to our society where anybody would make a run if they were to spectate such a thing. While what you said makes perfect sense, I believe that conventions and code of behavior formed around the Sibyl system justified the seemingly illogical responses from those people in this episode.

lizardking461 said:
Edit: to all those muppets pretentiously trying to justify
Morridine said:
I shall pass by the fact that you insult everyone by calling them muppets. That is not nice.

Though I have to agree with Morridine on this one. I find it rather distasteful to label others as muppets.

RoNin-87 said:
Orsonius said:
Fuck this violence.

Why did they have to show this shit?

If this shitty show does that again it's dropped.
Fuck you IG for your retarded taste in violence and gore I hate you!


Better get going then.

I personally don't see why you are still hanging around here if you really hate the show that much.
Yeah, like what others said, just get out of here already then?
Modified by KyousukeT, Jan 28, 2013 3:44 PM
 
Jan 28, 2013 5:15 PM

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symbv said:
How come cash is still being used and transported in trucks in this future world?
XDXD do You really think Makishia is interested in money?
 
Jan 28, 2013 5:52 PM

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Orsonius said:
But the music is soo good...

Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.


I found the over the top violence necessary to convey the shows theme of how no matter how perfect a society might be. Their are indeed going to be flaws in it as well.

If you hate the violence, I wonder why your even watching it in the 1st place. I know some friends who wouldn't watch a show if its contains ton of violence and they don't complain about it. Just drop it and let the viewers have fun with the show.
 
Jan 28, 2013 9:02 PM

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New OP scenes and I like it better than the previous episode. The ED now has Akane and I am guessing different chara then onwards.
The chase of the masked man in red coat was my fav part of in episode. The other one is Makishima in cool getup, that high cut green shoes and all.
As for the gore and violence, I found this show aimed for mature audience and those elements are part of the storyline. I think I remember the director wanted this to be that way...along the lines that hard core sh!ts are necessary and eliminate any moe elements.
 
Jan 29, 2013 10:53 AM

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Great episode, the best of the series for my liking.

The girl killed on the street, it was sick, not so much the way she was attacked but with everyone watching and that moment when the droid approached her and told her to take mental care, damn that was so sick.

I don't really like this Shougo guy, but the way he killed that punk was awesome...
Currently watching everything that comes out to avoid missing something good...

 
Jan 29, 2013 3:09 PM

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AnimeForDummies said:
Orsonius said:
But the music is soo good...

Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.


I found the over the top violence necessary to convey the shows theme of how no matter how perfect a society might be. Their are indeed going to be flaws in it as well.

If you hate the violence, I wonder why your even watching it in the 1st place. I know some friends who wouldn't watch a show if its contains ton of violence and they don't complain about it. Just drop it and let the viewers have fun with the show.


First of all it's not a perfect society, if all it's a dystopian society.
The message of the anime is basically "we have this retarded system in place and it doesn't work".
I could tell you that sybil doesn't work even without them showing it. It practically makes no sense.

I'm not taking your fun away. or are you reading my comments when you are watching an episode and go like "argh this user is totally ruining my fun of the show right now, why can't I not just watch the show without reading his comments! ARGH"

I watch the show because I started it and don't feel like dropping it right now. There had been at least 1 good episode so far. And I also wanna know how it ends. But why do they have to show a women being killed with a hammer infront of like 50 people and all they do is record it?

That's fucking stupid. And the worst thing, they showed this scene like 10 times during the whole episode, as if one time isn't bad enough.

This sort of violence is childish and trying too hard. Edgy shit what other people would call it.
If I want retarded violence I can watch Elfen Lied or some crap like that.
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwerVFCY-50PTBnedey1PQ
 
Jan 29, 2013 4:23 PM

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Orsonius said:
First of all it's not a perfect society, if all it's a dystopian society.
The message of the anime is basically "we have this retarded system in place and it doesn't work".
I could tell you that sybil doesn't work even without them showing it. It practically makes no sense.

I'm not taking your fun away. or are you reading my comments when you are watching an episode and go like "argh this user is totally ruining my fun of the show right now, why can't I not just watch the show without reading his comments! ARGH"

I watch the show because I started it and don't feel like dropping it right now. There had been at least 1 good episode so far. And I also wanna know how it ends. But why do they have to show a women being killed with a hammer infront of like 50 people and all they do is record it?

That's fucking stupid. And the worst thing, they showed this scene like 10 times during the whole episode, as if one time isn't bad enough.

This sort of violence is childish and trying too hard. Edgy shit what other people would call it.
If I want retarded violence I can watch Elfen Lied or some crap like that.


No need to cry over that, and you even insulted Elfen Lied, man, what's wrong with you?
 
Jan 29, 2013 8:09 PM

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Orsonius said:
AnimeForDummies said:
Orsonius said:
But the music is soo good...

Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.


I found the over the top violence necessary to convey the shows theme of how no matter how perfect a society might be. Their are indeed going to be flaws in it as well.

If you hate the violence, I wonder why your even watching it in the 1st place. I know some friends who wouldn't watch a show if its contains ton of violence and they don't complain about it. Just drop it and let the viewers have fun with the show.


First of all it's not a perfect society, if all it's a dystopian society.
The message of the anime is basically "we have this retarded system in place and it doesn't work".
I could tell you that sybil doesn't work even without them showing it. It practically makes no sense.

I'm not taking your fun away. or are you reading my comments when you are watching an episode and go like "argh this user is totally ruining my fun of the show right now, why can't I not just watch the show without reading his comments! ARGH"

I watch the show because I started it and don't feel like dropping it right now. There had been at least 1 good episode so far. And I also wanna know how it ends. But why do they have to show a women being killed with a hammer infront of like 50 people and all they do is record it?

That's fucking stupid. And the worst thing, they showed this scene like 10 times during the whole episode, as if one time isn't bad enough.

This sort of violence is childish and trying too hard. Edgy shit what other people would call it.
If I want retarded violence I can watch Elfen Lied or some crap like that.


just get the fuck out lol
LET JUSTICE BE DONE; THOUGH THE HEAVENS MAY FALL
 
Jan 29, 2013 9:30 PM
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Orsonius said:
AnimeForDummies said:
Orsonius said:
But the music is soo good...

Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.


I found the over the top violence necessary to convey the shows theme of how no matter how perfect a society might be. Their are indeed going to be flaws in it as well.

If you hate the violence, I wonder why your even watching it in the 1st place. I know some friends who wouldn't watch a show if its contains ton of violence and they don't complain about it. Just drop it and let the viewers have fun with the show.


First of all it's not a perfect society, if all it's a dystopian society.
The message of the anime is basically "we have this retarded system in place and it doesn't work".
I could tell you that sybil doesn't work even without them showing it. It practically makes no sense.

I'm not taking your fun away. or are you reading my comments when you are watching an episode and go like "argh this user is totally ruining my fun of the show right now, why can't I not just watch the show without reading his comments! ARGH"

I watch the show because I started it and don't feel like dropping it right now. There had been at least 1 good episode so far. And I also wanna know how it ends. But why do they have to show a women being killed with a hammer infront of like 50 people and all they do is record it?

That's fucking stupid. And the worst thing, they showed this scene like 10 times during the whole episode, as if one time isn't bad enough.

This sort of violence is childish and trying too hard. Edgy shit what other people would call it.
If I want retarded violence I can watch Elfen Lied or some crap like that.


get out, your opinions hold no value here, this show is not for you.
 
Jan 30, 2013 9:26 AM

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Orsonius said:
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.


You mean, an atrociously boring, plotless and juvenile semi-sequel to an otherwise entertaining and fun previous anime?

Roger that, captain.
 
Jan 30, 2013 10:01 AM
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Orsonius said:
Why do they have to ruin the show with over the top violence.
IG can make a show without that just see Robotics;Notes.

So you're asking for another Robotics;Notes then.
Why the hell do you want two R;N airing at the same time?

14 episodes is about 5 hours which you've wasted out of your life on something you obviously can't tolerate. Drop it now because it's not going to change.
 
Jan 30, 2013 10:24 AM

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THAT CHASE SCENE WITH KO & MAOSOKA!!
was on edge theee entire time.
 
Jan 30, 2013 11:52 AM

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Orsonius said:

This sort of violence is childish and trying too hard. Edgy shit what other people would call it.

I actually agree with this. But I felt like only the girl on the street was overdone, I liked the rest violent scenes. Before you go "OMG you have an opinion stop watching the show!!11!!one!!", I don't mind violence, heck, I actually enjoy gory anime. But this was as if someone was standing behind me and each time it was shown they would ask "So, do you agree with Makishima, now?". Yeah, I could see their point without showing it to my face 10 times. I'm not completely dumb. It felt as if they were trying too hard to make everyone disgusted.

About the crowd, while I logically realise that it's possible (especially considering that even now people first make a video/pics and then help, if at all), it completely shocks me that there was about 50 people just standing and watching. It's twisted how can fake safety make people completely forget any and all danger.

I really hope they'll explain how the helmets work. That's something I'm very curious about. Sybil scans the brain, yet the helmet seems to be able to pick the person with lowest PP and reflect it as their own. I get the part that the helmet blocks the ability to read ones brain and that it scans others in order to find the best "victim". But how does it "cover" itself with someone else's PP? Shouldn't Sybil notice it's not reading brain? It's not sending the information directly into the scanner, it was explained that the scanner scans the person. I hope they explain it because I don't see how it would be possible. To make a scanner think it's scanning a brain without messing with it.
 
Jan 30, 2013 2:54 PM

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That hammer scene, jesus, i am shocked, genuinely >.< i'm guessing she wouldn't date him..... Just laying there and seeing her shake and hearing the thud, jesus, that was madness 0.o i felt so bad watching that part >.<

That was akane's other friend right? i havent gone crazy?

Makishima is such a bad ass, i totally agree with him, but his methods are a bit extravagant although i guess its the only way when the world is how it is there.
Does anyone else need a doctor to confirm that someone without a head is dead?
 
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