Sorata's attitude in episode 13

Jan 10, 2013 6:22 AM

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Jan 2013

529

Sorata... how many more emo modes will you grace us with?
Just as when I forgave that last outburst and started to re-enjoy the show once again you jab it back with a big "remember the old me?" Yeah... no not again.
This is like the third big noticeable emo mode I've come across and it gets on my nerves. I consider it a strike three, you're out Sorata.

radleJan 10, 2013 6:31 AM

Feeling Down?
Healing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXr0L4pOnV8
Soothing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT3o_BBH61c
Interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UpZnSjMko4
Female? Gotcha covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8cOqzku9zA
...yeah

Jan 10, 2013 10:21 AM

#102

jrchua000

Offline

Jan 2010

*Only read til' page 3 of the post.

Anyway, here's my opinion.

First of all, the confession. I honestly think that Sorata knows he likes Mashiro, as shown from the airport scene. Although, because he could not hear the reply of Mashiro, he didn't get to know about Mashiro's feelings, and he was a bit frustrated about that.

Next is that, after the airport scene, Mashiro's action started to change. What Sorata was used to seeing is a Mashiro that does not care about other things than her work, that is why when asked who he likes more, he answered he is more at ease with the old Mashiro. This could have baffled/confused him adding to his frustrations as he don't really know how to handle this "new" Mashiro.

Next is Aoyama's feelings. Honestly, in my experience, knowing someone for a very long time and being good friends with them ever since, makes you think of him/her more of a sibling, being able to be intimate/super-close with them without getting awkward/shy/attracted-in-an-opposite-sex-kind-of-way. So I do think that it could be the reason why Sorata doesn't find Aoyama's actions strange despite being so obvious(atleast for us audience),

Next is Sorata's work. Although we see him working for just like... what.. 2mins of screentime? We don't really exactly know how long it took him to finish that game. Also after having the boost of confidence he got from the festival, it certainly would also be harder for him when he knew he failed again. As you've seen from previous episodes, he already did a lot just to learn how to create a game. but still he couldn't achieve anything. Again, another frustration. (I'll get back to this later)

Next is the fact that Mashiro was already cut once. For an artist, especially someone like Mashiro (who is supposedly uber god-like), a cut in the fingers would definitely be a big no-no. Seeing that Sorata is on "Mashiro-duty", he wants to keep Mashiro away from harm as much as possible, and still being not used to the "new" Mashiro, he still treats her as someone who-only-focuses-on-her-own-work. He is against the cooking to begin with, and when he gave in, his worst nightmare as the one on "Mashiro-duty" came true, Mashiro's finger being cut. and when he insists that Mashiro should just really give up, she just ignored him, adding AGAIN frustration.

Next is his little sister. I guess it seems out-of-place/unimportant, but I think it could have also added frustration to him, knowing that his sister will be bugging him for christmas.

Next is the editor's comment on Mashiro's change. It makes Sorata more uneasy. It's like everything he was wondering about/frustrating about Mashiro was laid in front of him, and just wants to be back to their "normal relationship" (wherein Sorata is in charge of "Mashiro Duty" and Mashiro is the all-i-care-about-is-my-work girl) As a guy, I believe most of us would prefer to keep to ourselves of what we are feeling (especially when feeling down) that is why the frustrations keep on piling up and although Sorata don't really want to admit it, here comes the editor saying it for him.

Then it so happens that RIGHT AFTER their talk, came the horrible news. Wounds from the past, was just opened fresh, and everything just came crashing down. How could you know what you're doing? The girl that's in front of you, who is superior in what she wants to do, suddenly GOES BACK to cooking when you, as the "guardian" to keep her safe and be the all-i-care-about-is-my-work girl, just told her to give up. Sorata didn't even know what Mashiro is feeling, and because her actions aren't her "normal" actions, he just don't know what to do anymore, and because of all the frustrations... Boom!

Lastly, the ticket to a play. As I've said earlier, Sorata doesn't see Aoyama that way. Being at lost of what to do next, he just wanted to leave everything behind him, so he accepted it as it can be a way to keep his mind away from his frustrations. Also you can see that he just grabbed the opportunity, not because he wanted to go to Aoyama but because it just so happened that there was an opportunity. when asked if he's sure even if it's christmas eve, he just replied "sure, everyone has other plans, too. Why not?".

Phew! I am not defending Sorata, but I do feel him for being that way. I am 17 afterall, so maybe that's why I think I can relate to him more... I am only trying to show how I understood his actions objectively, without being bitter/bitchy about how he reacted.

Thanks for reading if you finished it :)

Jan 10, 2013 10:23 AM

#103

totoum

Offline

Oct 2007

196

SetsukoHara said:
The problem is that he didn't seem to have learned a lot during the 12 past episodes..

He went from wanting to leave sakurasou because he considered it a looney bin to directing a project involving all its members,that's a pretty big change.

He also never sided with Rita.

all for fun.fun for all

Jan 10, 2013 1:19 PM

#104

Ajunky

Offline

Oct 2010

1291

Dragon_Slayer_X said:
That's funny when talking to you i get the idea that i am trying to talk to a 2-year old. Ever looked at what you are saying and how you are contradicting yourself? Not gonna waste much time trying to point them out but please do try to cure your own stupidity first. You are never trying to understand Sorata situation in that perspective no matter how much others are pointing that out.

Not gonna waste time pointing my contradictions? that's cause there aren't any. Without something concrete you have nothing to back what you are saying. You're just making idiotic assumptions about what I think. I understand Sorata's situation, I've been there, and I still don't judge it enough justification. You got absolutely nothing and all you do is make baseless conclusions.

But I admit it's my fault trying to argue with a moron. Asking for proper argumentation from one is like asking dog to sing an opera. I'm done with this.

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller

Jan 10, 2013 9:14 PM

#105

Dragon_Slayer_X

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Aug 2012

2302

Ajunky said:

Calling me a moron doesn't really change the fact that you are an immature kid neither it will decrease your stupidity level. Acting like a perfectionist wouldn't help you either.........pretty much everything about your comments proves that you are an idiot. Btw you really don't understand Sorata's situation so stop trying to act smart.

Jan 11, 2013 12:17 AM

#106

modalities

Offline

Jan 2013

sorata could've reacted like this to jin, misaki, even chihiro sensei, it's just low to unleash misdirected/pent-up frustrations at innocent parties. it's obvious that shiina is a fundamental source of sorata's problems, but you can't get mad at others for being successful. there was a comment earlier in this thread along the lines of "we've all done it before", which is likely true, but that doesn't make it right or even acceptable. were i to do something like sorata did this episode (and on previous accounts) i would be extremely disappointed in my character - more than in my lack of talent or whatever.

what makes it even worse to me is that shiina provides the same moral support for sorata that sorata provides for shiina. shiina doesn't need sorata's encouragement, but she is constantly trying to help motivate sorata and get him to believe in himself.

i think jin's behavior is way more understandable. jin definitely feels inferior to misaki, as stated early in the series, but i think a bigger issue with him is the idea of bringing her down. he's always avoided any urges because he doesn't think he's good enough to date her. sorata's situation isn't the same in the sense that he does not know/acknowledge that shiina has feelings for him. jin was completely aware of misaki's feelings, as well as his own, but didn't want to be the person to interfere with her promising talents/prospective career. i think jin knows he's at least decent at what he does, but he doesn't want misaki to compromise her goals for him (which is very likely, knowing how absurd - read 'hilarious' - she is).

jin's self-deprecation is internalized. he's trying to objectively compare his and misaki's potential, and doesn't want to diminish her capabilities. hard to deal with, but different as he's not imposing his problems upon his peers.

sorata cannot fully internalize his conflict, and takes it out on everyone else. he wears his moods on his sleeve, and needs everyone to kinda hold his hand and tell him 'it'll be okay' before he feels better. he needs others to feel better about himself, which is natural, but is kinda sad - read 'pathetic' - to force your emotions/opinions upon others against their wills.

Jan 11, 2013 12:21 PM

#107

Falcomster

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Aug 2011

2513

Who even cares?

Jan 11, 2013 4:19 PM

#108

InfiniteDestiny

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Dec 2010

2675

modalities said:
jin's self-deprecation is internalized. he's trying to objectively compare his and misaki's potential, and doesn't want to diminish her capabilities. hard to deal with, but different as he's not imposing his problems upon his peers.

Lol....ya no he didn't impose on his peers, he just made Misaki feel horrible for who knows how long, screwed over Misaki's sister, and used countless women to deal with his own inferiority. Say what you like about Sorata but nothing the guy did was even remotely nearly as bad as what Jin did, Do you see Sorata actually messing with Nanami in that way to get over his inferiority? What do you think is the worst way of dealing with inferiority, going to a play or doing what Jin did over a extended period of time. Sorata didn't hold malice in his acceptance of of the ticket just ignorance, Jin knew very well what he was doing... I mean honestly, if Jin's younger days were ever animated, people would despise his character, it's been pushed back a little because he obviously isn't the main character but that doesn't change the fact that what he did was horrible.

NihonFalcom said:
Who even cares?

Well seems like you do enough to post such a worthless line. If you don't care then don't post, guess common sense isn't so common huh.

Jan 11, 2013 5:58 PM

#109

-Sakuya-

Offline

Jan 2011

InfiniteDestiny said:
Well seems like you do enough to post such a worthless line. If you don't care then don't post, guess common sense isn't so common huh.

I don't care.

Jan 11, 2013 6:15 PM

#110

Yulena

Offline

Oct 2012

-Sakuya- said:

InfiniteDestiny said:
Well seems like you do enough to post such a worthless line. If you don't care then don't post, guess common sense isn't so common huh.

I don't care.

I also don't really care.
Sorata's just venting out his anger on Mashiro, MOVING ON.

Jan 11, 2013 8:01 PM

#111

Falcomster

Offline

Aug 2011

2513

InfiniteDestiny said:

NihonFalcom said:
Who even cares?

Well seems like you do enough to post such a worthless line. If you don't care then don't post, guess common sense isn't so common huh.

What's that?
This is MAL, we don't need that nonsense here.

Jan 12, 2013 8:46 AM

#112

hnryirawan

Offline

Nov 2011

radle said:
Sorata... how many more emo modes will you grace us with?
Just as when I forgave that last outburst and started to re-enjoy the show once again you jab it back with a big "remember the old me?" Yeah... no not again.
This is like the third big noticeable emo mode I've come across and it gets on my nerves. I consider it a strike three, you're out Sorata.

sorry, i need to comment. Considering Sorata just found his way of life (wow, in high school), he's been shot down even before presentating his game. I think nobody listed it but last time he get to second stage, this time he got shot down in first stage. The proposal is a revised version of the cultural festival game (thats what i get, even i dont expect that will be rejected). Shiina (kawaii ^^) ready to cast aside all her talent just to learn cooking (remember sorata's opinion in the end of ep 9). I think sorata (who looks like someone with little outburst capacity) will be a little pissed off (bad word, sorry). About Aoyama, i think sorata will remember his resolution while dating. Overall, Sakurasou is one of the most vibrant story with wonderful set of characters (I expect a light-hearted anime from the title)

oh yeah, shiina's defender is acting as side characters if we change the setting into classrooms (just adjust it) and sorata's defender is acting as the pro-active girlfriend/boyfriend of the aforementioned sidecharas who listen to their rant and anger. sigh, high school will be very interesting if there are character like this (THIS DOES NOT MEAN IN ANY WAY GIVING UP NORMAL LIFE)

hnryirawanJan 12, 2013 9:00 AM

Jan 12, 2013 1:04 PM

#113

Bishoujotaku

Offline

May 2011

151

Yulena said:

-Sakuya- said:

InfiniteDestiny said:
Well seems like you do enough to post such a worthless line. If you don't care then don't post, guess common sense isn't so common huh.

I don't care.

I also don't really care.
Sorata's just venting out his anger on Mashiro, MOVING ON.

I DON'T CARE THE MOST!

“Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short and wear shirts and boots because it’s okay to be a boy; for girls it’s like promotion. But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, according to you, because secretly you believe that being a girl is degrading.”—Ian McEwan, The Cement Garden (1978)

Jan 12, 2013 7:18 PM

#114

modalities

Offline

Jan 2013

InfiniteDestiny said:

(PREFACE: I HAVE NOT READ THE LN. information pertaining to jin's character from the LN is not accounted for in my posts, as this is a discussion of the anime, anyway. hence, jin's past is a bit irrelevant in this thread, i'd say.)

you're severely misinterpreting what it means to "impose emotions." tell me, what is the reason his actions hurt these people? why does misaki feel horrible? how did he come to have such a relationship with misaki's sister? are these things that jin did against the will of misaki/fuuka/the other women? you are saying that because all of these women came to like jin, and he didn't please every single one of them, he's "imposing upon them" (i'm pretty sure you're trying to say his actions are immature, which may be true, but that's not what i'm arguing about in my original post, anyway). by your logic, if someone were to unintentionally become a love interest of multiple people at the same time, no matter what you do, if you hurt at least one person you are "imposing" upon others. that's just plain silly.

sorata is imposing because he FORCES his interior conflicts on other people. jin's conflict is interwoven with the conflicts of those around him. misaki likes jin, her sister likes at least something about him, the other women obviously want jin to satisfy their own selfish desires (btw aren't these women adults? one of them worked at the hospital iirc. you're seriously saying a ~17 year old boy is "using" adult women to solve his own inferiority issues? aren't these women a bit in the wrong?). jin is dealing with his problems on his own - he does not beg sorata or anyone else for that matter for help. he may not be making the right decision, but he's at least trying to handle it. to argue that his actions are more imposing than sorata's is absurd.

now to say who's actions are worse - of course this is subjective. i'm trying to present the other side of the coin, though. i respect that jin at least acknowledges that he cares enough about misaki to not want to jeopardize her talent. he knows what she'll be able to do if she focuses, but with him there, she probably won't achieve as much as she is capable.

and this

What do you think is the worst way of dealing with inferiority, going to a play or doing what Jin did over a extended period of time.

is a flawed question. what does sorata's action have to do with inferiority? you could equivalently ask "what's a better way of dealing with inferiority: mowing the lawn or treating someone like shit?" one of the potential choices is completely unrelated to the point you're trying to illustrate. sorata is dense, and you can't hate him for it (but it can make you cringe), however for sorata to repeatedly lash out on people that aren't actively creating problems with him is not respectable.

you also ask if sorata is "messing with nanami". do you think he'd be so admirable if he actually acknowledged nanami's feelings for him? he'd obviously turn her down, so will he be so saintly then? note that sorata also doesn't have feelings for nanami. in your opinion, how could you respectfully turn down someone that loves you, mutually? it seems like your solution would be "don't", and if only life were that easy...

Feb 13, 2013 9:31 PM

#115

Mockman

Offline

Jan 2010

524

modalities said:
you also ask if sorata is "messing with nanami". do you think he'd be so admirable if he actually acknowledged nanami's feelings for him? he'd obviously turn her down, so will he be so saintly then? note that sorata also doesn't have feelings for nanami. in your opinion, how could you respectfully turn down someone that loves you, mutually? it seems like your solution would be "don't", and if only life were that easy...

Two good posts in a row. Keep it up. (Could be more but that's all I've noticed.) As this post is pretty long, I won't quote the whole thing as I need room for my own post. I'm in agreement with it though.

As I don't want to repeat what you've already ably written, I'll just make a couple of other points. Well, quite a few points since this character is what he is. And since this is an indulgent sort of topic, well, here's my self-indulgence.

People have written that he couldn't hear Shiina over the plane when she asked if love had taken her. This is taking a single fact and skipping over all of the surrounding ones to arrive at the pre-chosen conclusion. Watch the conversation again. Shiina didn't just say the word 'love' on its own out in left field. She took her time leading up to it. She was open and honest and pretty blunt about her feelings and that his actions triggered those feelings. If you had a game show (and I'm pretty sure there used to be one like this) that had a whole bunch of words and had one blank space that people had to guess the word to win, everybody who played this round would win. Worse, Kanda heard every other word she said. He reacted strongly to them — moronically and immaturely albeit but I don't have a problem with that. And of course, he had already practically confessed as he ran crying into her arms — there's dense and then there's dense. I get that he too dull to notice anyone else's feelings or even his own (when he isn't crying) but surely he noticed his own actions. He certainly seemed embarrassed enough about them at the time.

I'll add this as well… What did he do after that conversation? Nothing. And this is part of how weak this show has become after a great beginning. The show's creators follow up one of the most genuine, emotional moments of the show with nothing. The focal point of the first half of the series perhaps but then it was dropped and forgotten. This was poorly done.

His backers seem to be arguing that not only is he entitled to feel bad, but he really needs to feel bad. And because he feels bad, which he's entitled to feeling, he can do anything he wants, no matter how nasty, and then feel justified about his actions. It's open season on his friends' emotions. Well, he can do what he likes and justify what he wishes, but he isn't demonstrating any character in doing so. He's acting like a child (and I don't mean a teenager, I mean the pre-school kind). This is where the criticisms of him come from. People feel how they do but they do have choices when it comes to their actions. Some of his actions are those of a cretin. And for what it's worth, he doesn't seem to reflect on his actions at all. I've done stupid, nasty things in my life (as I assume we all have) but they stick with me and I generally regret them, usually for years. I don't justify them and then wander off happily to find someone else to harm. And sometimes even, I stop myself from doing things that other people might find unpleasant because I've thought about how they might feel. Crazy idea, eh?

On another point — cooking. He wasn't trying to protect her. He was putting her back in her box, where she belongs. When she's in her box, i.e. needing him on Mashiro duty, then he feels manly (as long as it's him on duty, 'cause he felt like a mouse when Aoyama was on duty). Shiina's growing and developing as she connects to the rest of the world; I'll even give Kanda some credit for being responsible for some of this, maybe more than anyone else. But her climbing out of her box was too threatening to him because he is a wretch when he encounters any adversity. Because she is who she is, it's a trump card for him, usable in many circumstances.

More stuff specific to ep.13,

First scene, he dreams about Shiina at the airport. What happens? Misaki slapped the bejesus out of him and called him whiny — in his own dream. He knows in his own heart that he's a whiny, little bitch.
On the rooftop, Shiina arrives without a given reason but wants to sit beside him, pushing Jin out of the way to do so.
Then there is the bento scene. Misaki delivers a message of love to Jin with her bento. Shiina is floored. She wants to make a bento for Kanda. She won't do anything else until she does. She even uses the same line as Misaki, asking if his stomach fell for her. Dense is as dense does. Aoyama and Jin sure picked up the hint.
There's the scene where he accuses Aoyama of being mean to him. How old is he again?
How did Chihiro react to Shiina's cut. She calmly asks if Shiina can finish her manga. She doesn't get hysterical. She doesn't rage at her.
And as for his beloved imouto… I guess the only way to deal with her is to drop the call. And he wasn't even particularly upset when he did it — before or after.
What did the editor say? A little cut isn't a big problem.
Then the editor changes the subject to what's important and asks him which Shiina he loves more, but reminding him that it doesn't matter as both options are the same Shiina. You can lead a horse to water…
After he turned rageboy on Shiina, what does she do? She tells him that he's inside her, as she presses her hands against her heart. She asks him to talk to her. How does he respond? He looks away. Everyone can defend his right to be dense. Heck, even I'll do that. But he doesn't follow up. He doesn't even think about it. Meanwhile, Shiina is curled up in a ball, alone in a darkened room.
When Aoyama asks him to the play and he accepts, because he has nothing better to do, she gives him a way out. But it's Christmas Eve! That means something. Are you sure you want to go with me? But it doesn't mean anything to him.

Every other character in the show sees the romance waiting to blossom. And every one of them, imouto aside, is cheering him on. There's only one character who doesn't see any light.

Finally, he doesn't really have a right to complain about Shiina's talent. Jin, as I recall, doesn't complain about Misaki's talent. It's awkward for him, it affects him, but at least he tries to do something constructive about it. He doesn't owe Misaki anything. The only person who I would say he does is Fuuka. His treatment of her is a black mark against him. Not sure how he can redeem himself here but I hope he finds a way as she deserves something better than what she's gotten. Fuuka's bonus curse is that uniquely, she understands him, and that understanding and her own decisions enabled her to get close to him but not to win his heart. She doesn't take her pain out on her sister, or anyone else for that matter, even Jin. But back to Kanda's case… Shiina has great talent but she's more than that. She works hard. She's been relentless in her obsession to create and improve. I've never heard of people who played against Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky who then took their ball or puck and went home. Most people, when around the talented and skillful, find motivation and inspiration in that contact. Think Lance Armstrong and consider how far his fall from grace was. Especially, they don't feel bad when they've only laced up skates a few times in their life. And if he's interested in something as competitive as game design, he needs start taking testosterone boosters with that attitude of his.

Kanda is in the middle of an incredible situation. He is surrounded by smart, talented, creative people who are striving to their uttermost to do great things, and they're really impressed with him for some reason. Chihiro-sensei even entrusted, forcibly, her unique, needy cousine to him. They're not neglecting or excluding him, nor are they treating him like a bum. To the contrary, they're trying to push him to greater things. That's why Nyaboron was such a success. They see great talent in him. None of them claimed that the show was a success because of their own participation. Instead they praised him for leading them so well. And Akasaka, who even left his room to help, made a special point on a couple of occasions to remind him that he was the director, explaining that what Akasaka added was straightforward, but the difficult and most important challenge was for Kanda to overcome.

Added to this, he has a cute, childhood friend who adores him and came to live with him because of it. And just for him, the most beautiful girl in the world flies half-way around that world to fall nopan into his lap. Who after a lifetime of singular obsession, is subordinating that obsession to be with him and help him on his projects. She's eager to do so. She may not communicate in ways that anybody other than Aoyama understands but she's been honest and true. Remember also that he was loafing about despondently, sans ambition, before she arrived. He was bored and felt both hopeless and useless. She's done a lot for him.

Anyway, Kanda should be the happiest guy in the world, not the sulkiest, poutiest, most angry and jealous crybaby in the world. He shouldn't be indifferent to the feelings of those around him, who he cares about. And as others have explained well enough, he has been spurning every opportunity to show some character. His character has actually been diminishing as the show progresses. But given that he's the MC, he'll get more opportunities and presumably, will magically find a spine in episode 23. But he isn't a very appealing character at this time.

In summation… Practically every scene in this episode had him acting the loser. The loser who can't see that he's actually got a hand that will win if only he plays it. If someone has to have unearned rewards given to him because he tried a little bit or else he'll take his frustrations out on the people around him and then surrender to crushing fate, then he's acting like a child. People can make all the excuses they want for him but I haven't read anything yet to make me sympathetic. Now maybe this is the purpose of the show's creators. His long climb to virtue could be more meaningful given the abysmal depths he started from. FWIW, I don't think they're doing a good job of it. My apologies for the long-winded rant but it's a rich topic.

MockmanFeb 13, 2013 9:35 PM

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