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Poll: Israel or Palestine?


#1
Jan 6, 2013 12:24 PM

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Resolution 181

650,000 Jews went to Israel after settling in DPs

Population statistics



brief history

Historical background is needed on this problem--

650,000 jews went to Palestine (by 1950), and this was after 5 million people were repatriated straight after WW2. Resolution 181 was drafted by the UN and then passed through a vote. This resolution is hotly debated (all of the arab countries voted against it, and many voters reported threats of death or harm if they did vote for the resolution)

population wise Jewish were approximately 30-40% of the population in 1948 and gained over 56% of the land of palestine. The Palestinians, ~65% of the population gained about 43% of the land Forgive me for Wiki
800,000 Palestinians lived in camps because they lost their land, as refugees after this exodus.


Thats the partition, and then of course, the wars come straight after (1948, six-day, yom kippur, etc). which expanded israeli land into the west bank, sinai, the north.

After that theres a lot of modern history and conflicts still going on today--
ie, the freedom flotilla incident
Freedom Flotilla

Gaza blockade



Israel vs. palestine, two questions-what can be done in the future? palestine is already recognized and where do you stand in the issue?
~"The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands." (Pirsig)

 
#2
Jan 6, 2013 12:42 PM

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I voted Palestine based on the stuff in the OP. I would like to say something about this but I don't have much knowledge of what's going on in between the two countries :( I really need to educate myself on this topic when I got time.
 
#3
Jan 6, 2013 12:43 PM

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What you're asking with your poll isn't very clear.. If you're asking people what side they're on, to what extent do you mean? Who's the more sympathetic group? Which deserves more land?

There's many things that I don't like about the current state Israel, and I don't support any support that the U.S. gives the to it. Right now what the US is supporting is a state that is pursuing in policy and customs, practices that are considered internationally deplorable and that are reminiscent to that of the Jim Crow South and Nazi Germany. Continued US aid sends the message that pursuing apartheid is okay. Murders are ok, prejudice is ok, Blockades, Illegal settlements and international law breeches are all ok. It's sickening.

Clearly I'm biased. But even so, I can recognize that the issue isn't so simple.. supporting one side alone won't solve anything for the Israelis or the Palestinians (clearly). And it's important to note that both countries HAVE been trying to find solutions and they both do want to reach an agreement, but the one that keeps standing in the way is the US.
Modified by Emmrys, Jan 7, 2013 5:49 PM
 
#4
Jan 6, 2013 3:26 PM

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I think both states should work out their differences together, so in that aspect I'm neutral but I lean towards support for Palestine because of what Israel is doing to Palestinians, building settlements on the West Bank and trying to completely segregate them (the West Bank Wall) and withholding Palestinians (And Arabs in general) from becoming part of the government.

I should note that I don't believe Palestinians should run the region, but currently (and for decades) they have been suppressed and put on unequal grounds to Israel, and to make a peace effort between the two work, the two states would first have to be put on the same level (which Israel is trying to prevent).
Ara ara.
 
#5
Jan 6, 2013 3:44 PM

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Israel should run the region at least for now, I can't have a government ruled by terrorists running the region, the US wouldn't tolerate it either, if Hamas is removed from power, then it can be split fairly and evenly, Palestine deserves a larger chunk of the region but only after they clean house of the tyranny and evil that currently rules.


 
#6
Jan 6, 2013 3:55 PM

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Either Israel finishes the job or the moment the US stops backing them it all goes up in flames and I'll have to hope for no radioactive rain in my garden.
 
#7
Jan 7, 2013 4:18 AM

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Israel should work with Hamas to create a two-state solution without preconditions. Israel should invest in the Palestinian economy despite the terrorist rockets. Some sacrifice is necessary to achieve a greater good. The burden is on Israel because with great power comes great responsibility. One cannot fight fire with fire and expect to end terrorism in that way.

But ultimately, as fucked up as it sounds, I couldn't give a fuck if one of Israel's nuclear bombs self-implodes and destroys both states. Some of the biggest bigots come from that region, and for years we've been circling the drain, throwing good money after bad, and the people of there intentionally squander every good opportunity because their culture resists change -- or should we say Israel has no motive to actually move forward with peace until they build more settlements.

The easiest way we (the US) could solve this problem is to stop funding Israel, and believe me, peace will come real fast, because their politicians would be shitting in their pants. Israel would not have an existential problem after we stop funding them because they are already economically and militarily stronger than any other country in the region. They will have an existential problem if they continue down this self-destructive path of inertia that they are on.
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#8
Jan 7, 2013 6:11 AM

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The opening post is incredibly biased and reductive, with OP providing the people of this thread with a false choice. My stance on this issue is quite nuanced, and I find that presenting this rigid dichotomy is just counter productive.

I hope this gets locked.
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#9
Jan 7, 2013 10:16 AM

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Here is one of the link: http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Have a good day sir/ma'am.
 
Jan 7, 2013 10:22 AM

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JennyEsquire said:
The opening post is incredibly biased and reductive, with OP providing the people of this thread with a false choice. My stance on this issue is quite nuanced, and I find that presenting this rigid dichotomy is just counter productive.

I hope this gets locked.


People around here can barely discuss anime properly, so expecting a topic like this to receive fair treatment is way too much to ask.
 
Jan 7, 2013 11:38 AM

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Hmm I've always been one for Realpoltik, and thus back neither. Well unless one is more useful at the time.

The opening is heavily skewed in favor of the Palestinians however lets look at the facts.

The Israelis DO have grounds to be there, and the whole little thing with Hitler Trying to kill there whole race, Exile and such, left them with a bad case of Paranoia, and the stated goal of the Arabs over a number of wars to run them into the Sea, doesn't help with that.

On the other hand, The Palestinians DO also have a claim to the region, the problem where is neither side wants to share, and the "warm" welcome the Israelis got did not leave a good impression. If you look at the national mindset of Israel, from its defense reactions, to its conscriptation policies, and its armaments, they clearly have adopted a "better to kill all of them, than to let them kill me" policy. At the least they see everyone not with them as the enemy.

Its ironic that they indirectly and even unknowingly I'ld wager, have copied the Nazi's that killed them while the Arabs themselves tried to finish the job. Remember the only thing that kept most of those Nations from jumping on the Axis bandwagon in WW2, was coups and invasions from the English and Soviets. People speak of Germany invading the Lowlands, but the Fact Iran, Iraq, and a number of other nations were invaded by the Soviets and English largely goes overlooked.

So when both sides say they want peace. Its not peace they want. It is full blown destruction they seek. After all, if all who wish me harm are dead, then do I not have peace? Of course no one says that and are content to leave others alive so long as they toe the line.

At the same time the Israeli kill totals and its advancement is not a surprise. Remember the Arab Spring? "Peaceful" liberal protests might have overthrown scores of governments, but in nearly all cases Islamist forces have taken over, and with the Issues in Eqypt, and if Assad can't hold Syria, well, whats another war? Plus it will also kick off revolt in Jordon more likely than not.

For Israel and the US and Europe (belatedly noticing it) those dictators and corrupt governments were all that was keeping the peace from another regional war. The fact is they will never hand or allow those Regions to break off. There cannot be a two State Sollution from the Israeli view.

Which leaves you with what we have. Egypt could open up the Saini for the Palestine people and form a buffer from Israel, but it won't as politically for the Arab world having that issue allows them to get away with alot of things at home. At the Same time Israel is a paranoid guy with a gun sat up on a roof. There is too much bad blood for the situation to ever mend.

And for Israel, giving up land just won't happen. Period. For the Arabs, there won't be an attack as Israel has the better weapons, and likely Nukes. Or said nation is a US Puppet (Saudi Arabia). Which is why such a big deal is being made with Iran right now. It would force the Israeli side to the table if an Arab state ever got such a weapon. Or unleash an event that leads to WW3.


Its a complex issue, and I don't see it ever being fixed or going away. You could offer one side or the other a huge chunk of land, money, whatever, but they won't move from that dirt heap. Honestly thats not True. One way could fix it, dangerous in a matter. But its Simple.

Bomb Jerusalem into dust. Its what both sides are fighting for. Take it out of play, or turn it into an internationally controlled area. However it likely will mean fighting both factions...now wouldn't that be Funny PLO and Hamas Troops climbing into tanks and fighting alongside the IDF to resist an outside invader.
Modified by RedArmyShogun, Jan 7, 2013 11:43 AM
 
Jan 7, 2013 11:42 AM

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This is the problem with the world(definitely a problem with the USA), everyone feels the need to interject themselves in other's business.

I pick option C, it's none of my fucking business what two countries on the other side of the planet are fighting over. Also, remove all foreign aid to said countries.
 
Jan 7, 2013 2:57 PM

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Defiance said:
This is the problem with the world(definitely a problem with the USA), everyone feels the need to interject themselves in other's business.

I pick option C, it's none of my fucking business what two countries on the other side of the planet are fighting over. Also, remove all foreign aid to said countries.


This. We don't owe either country anything. Let them fight over their stupid territorial claims.

Never understood why the US is always aiding/siding with Israel :/
 
Jan 7, 2013 3:41 PM

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I support Iran. That is all.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:02 PM

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Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know
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Jan 7, 2013 4:18 PM

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Palestine. No doubt about it.
"Cheer up, you’re never alone! There is probably at least 1 bug in your room."
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:20 PM

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Deleted some posts to keep this discussion civil.

Please do not openly insult another user even if he posted something racially controversial.
Modified by Tachii, Jan 7, 2013 4:40 PM
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:29 PM

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DateYutaka said:
Tachii said:
Deleted some posts to keep this discussion civil.

Please do not openly insult another user even if he posted something racially controversial.

yet you deleted my posts
Why even have a Current Events forum when any political controversy is immediately deleted? Let's talk about a peaceful day of January 7, 2013 in some uneventful small town in Kansas then.

I didn't insult anyone. Sorry if facts piss people off.
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Jan 7, 2013 4:30 PM

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katsucats said:
Then why are you in a political thread getting your feet wet but claiming to refuse to go into the water?


Popped in to see what was up and got mad at the post. Why am I refusing? Two reasons:

1) I spend A LOT of time discussing this topic already elsewhere (hell, I work in Middle East research, so it's also kinda my job)

2) Doing it here is CLEARLY a losing battle for me. I get it. There is something romantic about supporting the underdog and looking at the Western, more powerful country as the bad guy. I just think in this case it is highly misguided. Why you would want to support a bunch of people who danced on their roofs after 9/11? Who give the death penalty to homosexuals or those who sell land to Jews? Who mercilessly mistreat women and deny them of basic human rights? Who horrifically murder each other like Hamas did to Fatah when they took over the Gaza Strip? Personally, I don't understand it, but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority on this message board, and hence it feels like a Sisyphean Task and I'd rather not bother, honestly. It's too tiring.

That's basically it. That and I'd rather not ruin the good image I have of many people around here by hearing their opinions on this topic.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:32 PM

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Controversial topics are okay as long as the argument do not go out of hand. The earlier argument clearly went out of hand. If people wish to keep the earlier discussion alive, do not openly insult others or deliberately try to provoke others with limited information (this comment is not specifically aimed toward anyone.)
Modified by Tachii, Jan 7, 2013 4:36 PM
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:35 PM
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neontaster said:
katsucats said:
Then why are you in a political thread getting your feet wet but claiming to refuse to go into the water?


Popped in to see what was up and got mad at the post. Why am I refusing? Two reasons:

1) I spend A LOT of time discussing this topic already elsewhere (hell, I work in Middle East research, so it's also kinda my job)

2) Doing it here is CLEARLY a losing battle for me. I get it. There is something romantic about supporting the underdog and looking at the Western, more powerful country as the bad guy. I just think in this case it is highly misguided. Why you would want to support a bunch of people who danced on their roofs after 9/11? Who give the death penalty to homosexuals or those who sell land to Jews? Who mercilessly mistreat women and deny them of basic human rights? Who horrifically murder each other like Hamas did to Fatah when they took over the Gaza Strip? Personally, I don't understand it, but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority on this message board, and hence it feels like a Sisyphean Task and I'd rather not bother, honestly. It's too tiring.

That's basically it. That and I'd rather not ruin the good image I have of many people around here by hearing their opinions on this topic.


So you can openly sappourt what Israel does waint did the US not funnel money to the IRA so how can they say there on the high ground now
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:35 PM

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This will get deleted in a second but...
It's not about supporting Palestine, but it's about being against a country that commits international crimes and refuses inquiry in the matters. More civilian deaths have been caused by Israel than Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah combined.
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Jan 7, 2013 4:38 PM

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neontaster said:
Why you would want to support a bunch of people who danced on their roofs after 9/11?
Racism at its finest. Attributing actions of individuals to population of a whole.
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Jan 7, 2013 4:41 PM

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katsucats said:
neontaster said:
Why you would want to support a bunch of people who danced on their roofs after 9/11?
Racism at its finest. Attributing actions of individuals to population of a whole.


I think it's pretty safe to say that demerits this:

1) I spend A LOT of time discussing this topic already elsewhere (hell, I work in Middle East research, so it's also kinda my job)
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:41 PM

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Again, I am not getting dragged into this, so I'll respond once and end it at that.

katsucats said:
False dichotomy. It's not about supporting Palestine, but it's about being against a country that commits international crimes and refuses inquiry in the matters.


I contest your claim that Israel commits international crimes. At least to the extent that if Israel does, then so does anybody else. The U.S. killed several thousand Somalis in the space of a couple of days in 1993 (the Black Hawk Down incident) and they got a standing ovation from the UN. They kill tons of civilians in drone strikes now and I don't see anybody talking about it. Israel gets singled out in a very unfair way. Again, I could break this down for you on a case-by-case basis, but you already have an opinion on this and I'm not going to change it. I'm just telling you where I'm coming from.

See that? Racism at its finest. When you attribute crimes of individuals to populations of a whole.


Not as a whole, but the people in power absolutely conform to what I said, and they are supported by a wide margin of the population. See, if a bunch of regular Palestinians who have no power don't agree, that's all well and good, but how does that change the severity of the situation? All it takes is that the people with their finger on the button, so to speak, act that way, and they do.

Yet more civilian deaths have been caused by Israel than Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah combined.


When you intentionally fire rockets at Israel from schoolyards or hide inside hospitals, then yes, more civilians will get killed, but if rockets are being launched from a schoolyard, what is Israel supposed to do? Nothing? Just let them do it?

And comparing death tolls is silly. You are implying that an eye-for-an-eye method would be acceptable to you in that case. Also, why does Israel have to release 1,000 prisoners for 1 captured Israeli soldier? Seems as though the Palestinians almost agree that one Israeli is worth 1,000 of theirs, no?
Modified by neontaster, Jan 7, 2013 4:48 PM
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:42 PM

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neontaster said:
katsucats said:
Then why are you in a political thread getting your feet wet but claiming to refuse to go into the water?


Popped in to see what was up and got mad at the post. Why am I refusing? Two reasons:

1) I spend A LOT of time discussing this topic already elsewhere (hell, I work in Middle East research, so it's also kinda my job)

2) Doing it here is CLEARLY a losing battle for me. I get it. There is something romantic about supporting the underdog and looking at the Western, more powerful country as the bad guy. I just think in this case it is highly misguided. Why you would want to support a bunch of people who danced on their roofs after 9/11? Who give the death penalty to homosexuals or those who sell land to Jews? Who mercilessly mistreat women and deny them of basic human rights? Who horrifically murder each other like Hamas did to Fatah when they took over the Gaza Strip? Personally, I don't understand it, but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority on this message board, and hence it feels like a Sisyphean Task and I'd rather not bother, honestly. It's too tiring.

That's basically it. That and I'd rather not ruin the good image I have of many people around here by hearing their opinions on this topic.


Well done you pointed out bad things but thats not the only things that Palestinians do and it doesn't mean they should all die out in a war to Israel. Your generalizing when you shouldn't be.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:42 PM
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i know the deeper reason why us sapourts Israel
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:43 PM

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Disclaimer:I know you are trying to keep this as civil as possible Tachii so I won't use his full quote, but I would like to retort to part of what he said as it is important to the topic.
katsucats said:
No other religion does this.
So you are referring to Jews as in the religion, not as in the people?

The Jews religiously adhere to the same document that the other Abrahamic religions adhere to, the old testament. The others only add to the old testament. I don't see how adhering ONLY to the old testament over following the writings of Mohammad or the new testament would make them inclined more towards oppression.

That being said, you must be confused because you are talking about Jews as a people, not as a religion. Not to mention that Israel's laws towards enforcing their religious dogma is far lesser than that of Islamic countries.

As I've said earlier, I have no dog in this fight. I believe the USA should pull all foreign aid from the region as soon as possible. Declaring my colors, I am also an atheist. I do though have a problem with both sides of the argument refusing to even try to use proper facts to validate their side.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:46 PM

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JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know


I like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing, his plans for his country, nuclear energy, and a free Palestine.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:52 PM

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Shuhan said:
JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know


I like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing, his plans for his country, nuclear energy, and a free Palestine.


Riight, you say you support a free Palestine yet you like Ahmadinejad who's definitely not for a free Iran. Whatever, you can stay delusional, I don't really care
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Jan 7, 2013 4:52 PM

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DateYutaka said:
i know the deeper reason why us sapourts Israel
The reason isn't as deep as you think it is. The USA wants a foothold in the middle east and Israel is the means of doing so. The US wants an ally in the region that is capable of launching proxy wars to fight for them. This has been a common tactic of the US since the beginning of the Cold War, ironically enough the Taliban was armed by America in the 80's to fight the USSR which helped lead to the eventual downfall of the communist regime.
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:53 PM

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neontaster said:
Again, I am not getting dragged into this, so I'll respond once and end it at that.
Yes you are, apparently.

neontaster said:
katsucats said:
False dichotomy. It's not about supporting Palestine, but it's about being against a country that commits international crimes and refuses inquiry in the matters.
I contest your claim that Israel commits international crimes. At least to the extent that if Israel does, then so does anybody else. The U.S. killed several thousand Somalis in the space of a couple of days in 1993 (the Black Hawk Down incident) and they got a standing ovation from the UN. They kill tons of civilians in drone strikes now and I don't see anybody talking about it. Israel gets singled out in a very unfair way.
Yes they did... in 1993. Shooting for high standards, aren't we? The US did it in 1993, so can Israel every other week! Astounding logic.

neontaster said:
See that? Racism at its finest. When you attribute crimes of individuals to populations of a whole.
Not as a whole, but the people in power absolutely conform to what I said, and they are supported by a wide margin of the population. See, if a bunch of regular Palestinians who have no power don't agree, that's all well and good, but how does that change the severity of the situation? All it takes is that the people with their finger on the button, so to speak, act that way, and they do.
Right, because innocent civilians don't matter all, they are just numbers in your eyes, a necessary collateral, not to mention the Hamas were not always the first aggressors.

neontaster said:
Yet more civilian deaths have been caused by Israel than Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah combined.
When you intentionally fire rockets at Israel from schoolyards or hide inside hospitals, then yes, more civilians will get killed, but if rockets are being launched from a schoolyard, what is Israel supposed to do? Nothing? Just let them do it?
I am constantly amused by the complete disregard for life by a racist Jew. You would trade 1,000 prisoners for 1 captured Jewish soldier, but hundreds of Palestinian civilians are just trash used to justify planned assassinations of middle-level Hamas officials.

neontaster said:
And comparing death tolls is silly. You are implying that an eye-for-an-eye method would be acceptable to you in that case. Also, why does Israel have to release 1,000 prisoners for 1 captured Israeli soldier? Seems as though the Palestinians almost agree that one of ours is worth 1,000 of theirs, no?
No terrorism is acceptable. I am implying that the people in power are terrorists on both ends -- but the difference lies in the scale of power. Israel is like the big bully in the playground taking billions of dollars of foreign aid and refusing to accept responsibility for anything.

The prisoner swap: It's called leverage. That's what Israel how many prisoners Israel would give up as indicated by precedence. You seem to believe as long as you release your prisoners that justifies hundreds of civilian deaths.
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Jan 7, 2013 4:55 PM
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JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know


I like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing, his plans for his country, nuclear energy, and a free Palestine.


Riight, you say you support a free Palestine yet you like Ahmadinejad who's definitely not for a free Iran. Whatever, you can stay delusional, I don't really care

He does not rule iran hes just the public face the clerics rule Iran
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Jan 7, 2013 4:59 PM

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JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know


I like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing, his plans for his country, nuclear energy, and a free Palestine.


Riight, you say you support a free Palestine yet you like Ahmadinejad who's definitely not for a free Iran. Whatever, you can stay delusional, I don't really care


You are blinded by fear and corrupted by the media.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:00 PM

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Defiance said:

katsucats said:
No other religion does this.
So you are referring to Jews as in the religion, not as in the people?

The Jews religiously adhere to the same document that the other Abrahamic religions adhere to, the old testament. The others only add to the old testament. I don't see how adhering ONLY to the old testament over following the writings of Mohammad or the new testament would make them inclined more towards oppression.
LOL I referred to it as a religion because you brought up religions. In truth it doesn't matter -- I'm talking about right-wing Jews in the context of Israel. We don't need to play this shuffle game every time the word "Jew" is mentioned.

Defiance said:
That being said, you must be confused because you are talking about Jews as a people, not as a religion. Not to mention that Israel's laws towards enforcing their religious dogma is far lesser than that of Islamic countries.
No, I am confused because you compared ethnic Jews to other religious groups, and then went on this off-topic rant when I responded to your assumption in kind. Religious dogma is one thing, foreign policy is another.
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Jan 7, 2013 5:00 PM

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DateYutaka said:
JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:
I support Iran. That is all.


Now why would you go and do such a thing? I'd like to know


I like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing, his plans for his country, nuclear energy, and a free Palestine.


Riight, you say you support a free Palestine yet you like Ahmadinejad who's definitely not for a free Iran. Whatever, you can stay delusional, I don't really care

He does not rule iran hes just the public face the clerics rule Iran


This. There are higher ups above Ahmadinejad
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:01 PM

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katsucats said:
Yes you are, apparently.


No, I'm not. You wanna see that as some kind of victory or whatever - be my guest. I really don't care.

PS: I don't remember ever saying I was Jewish (or "A Jew" as you life-loving enlightened soul that doesn't generalize at all calls it).
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:03 PM

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neontaster said:
katsucats said:
Yes you are, apparently.


No, I'm not. You wanna see that as some kind of victory or whatever - be my guest. I really don't care.
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.
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Jan 7, 2013 5:04 PM

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katsucats said:
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.


Deep. You should put that on a sticker or something.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:07 PM

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neontaster said:
katsucats said:
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.


Deep. You should put that on a sticker or something.


If your going to debate with him at least have the decency to not troll in middle of it. Or is that your way of admitting your out of things to say?
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:09 PM

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Mkayyy said:
neontaster said:
katsucats said:
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.


Deep. You should put that on a sticker or something.


If your going to debate with him at least have the decency to not troll in middle of it. Or is that your way of admitting your out of things to say?


I thought I said repeatedly that I wasn't going to debate him. That I was going to answer once and that was it. He decided to call me a racist Jew (without even knowing if I was Jewish or not, mind you), so I responded to him with a dry sarcastic and non offensive comment.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:11 PM

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neontaster said:
Mkayyy said:
neontaster said:
katsucats said:
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.


Deep. You should put that on a sticker or something.


If your going to debate with him at least have the decency to not troll in middle of it. Or is that your way of admitting your out of things to say?


I thought I said repeatedly that I wasn't going to debate him. That I was going to answer once and that was it. He decided to call me a racist Jew (without even knowing if I was Jewish or not, mind you), so I responded to him with a dry sarcastic and non offensive comment.


Are you Jewish?
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:11 PM

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Shuhan said:

You are blinded by fear and corrupted by the media.

The Jewish media? Nah, you people are crazy. Ahmadinejad isn't for a free Iran, he's for example content with the current laws on homosexuality, which dictate that homosexuals should be executed. I personally know individuals that have been thrown in prison and tortured under his regime for speaking out against the government. Neither Ahmadinejad, nor the rest of the Iranian regime are very big on human rights or a true democracy, and to say otherwise just means you're being delusional
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Jan 7, 2013 5:12 PM

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Shuhan said:
Are you Jewish?


I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion. I didn't ask you if you were a Twelver Shi'ite Muslim after your pro Iran comment.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:12 PM

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Okay after somewhat an effort to find a decent video about Israel, I only found this.

Israel and US Strategic Interests



Wish I can find more better videos though. I think there are more informative videos.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:15 PM

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katsucats said:
There are no victories when billions of dollars are going to a racist populace (more than 40% of Israel are right-wing) and hundreds of people are dying as a result.


Because right wing equals racist? The term ''Right-wing'' can be quite ambiguous
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Jan 7, 2013 5:18 PM

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JennyEsquire said:
Shuhan said:

You are blinded by fear and corrupted by the media.

The Jewish media? Nah, you people are crazy. Ahmadinejad isn't for a free Iran, he's for example content with the current laws on homosexuality, which dictate that homosexuals should be executed. I personally know individuals that have been thrown in prison and tortured under his regime for speaking out against the government. Neither Ahmadinejad, nor the rest of the Iranian regime are very big on human rights or a true democracy, and to say otherwise just means you're being delusional


Free from western interference. Thats what all middle eastern countries should strive for.

neontaster said:
Shuhan said:
Are you Jewish?


I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion. I didn't ask you if you were a Twelver Shi'ite Muslim after your pro Iran comment.


that sounds like a yes to me.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:21 PM

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Shuhan said:
that sounds like a yes to me.


The answer is actually yes and no, if you're THAT curious. Yes, my "official" religion is Judaism, but for the purposes of this discussion the answer would be no because I am non-practicing (closer to atheism than Judaism) and my arguments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are entirely political and deal with the past 150 years of history. I think "this is God's promised land for the Jews" is not an argument and I don't use arguments that are based off of the religion. So therefore my religion is irrelevant, which is also why I didn't mention it until you insisted, for whatever reason.
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:23 PM

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Shuhan said:

Free from western interference. Thats what all middle eastern countries should strive for.


Western interference =/= true freedom.

Western interference helped destabilize a facist regime give freedom to the Bosnian people. But I guess you wouldn't know anything about that.
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Jan 7, 2013 5:24 PM

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neontaster said:

The answer is actually yes and no, if you're THAT curious. Yes, my "official" religion is Judaism, but for the purposes of this discussion the answer would be no because I am non-practicing (closer to atheism than Judaism) and my arguments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are entirely political and deal with the past 150 years of history. I think "this is God's promised land for the Jews" is not an argument and I don't use arguments that are based off of the religion. So therefore my religion is irrelevant, which is also why I didn't mention it until you insisted, for whatever reason.


Bro, you shouldn't have admitted to that. These people won't hesitate to use it against you.
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