Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? |
Not_Biased said: Congratulations. You just lost this argument.InfiniteRyvius said: Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program exactly Also, I think this picture is somehow relevant: |
Red_KeysJan 7, 2013 7:50 AM
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Red_Keys said: did he ever win any?Not_Biased said: Congratulations. You just lost this argument.InfiniteRyvius said: Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program exactly Also, I think this picture is somehow relevant: |
Candor said: Red_Keys said: did he ever win any?Not_Biased said: Congratulations. You just lost this argument.InfiniteRyvius said: Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program exactly Also, I think this picture is somehow relevant: There was one thread where he |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Not_Biased said: InfiniteRyvius said: Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program exactly Bollocks. Tesla is the only man who can cause natural disasters. |
| The Art of Eight |
| So glad this thread worked out well like all the others. |
 |
Not_Biased said: InfiniteRyvius said: Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. I loved it when the human race discovered how to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, diseases etc. but then they went all bitchy and were like "OMG, let's kill loads of innocents with an earthquake! FUCK YOU HAITI!". Human are beyond help amiright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program exactly Those bastards! So they are the people I should blame for Malaria, those sadistic bastards! Where's my tin foil hat? |
Not_Biased said: Uhh.. The omnipotence paradox has already been discussed here Ah....very well, I didn't know. So, I guess you shouldn't believe in an omnipotent god, correct? Since it's illogical and what not... Not_Biased said: You were christian and didn't learn about free will? It's humans who mess everything up. I suggest you study the bible again. Lolers. No sir, I suggest YOU read the bible. I'm very well versed in the bible, and I know what's in it. Our "free will" is akin to having a gun placed in the back of our heads while the madman tells us to make a choice but only ONE choice pleases him, while the other is sure to make him pull the trigger. |
JustALEX said: Heh, the Bible is a awful bundle of plot holes and contradictions, especially on this point.Our "free will" is akin to having a gun placed in the back of our heads while the madman tells us to make a choice but only ONE choice pleases him, while the other is sure to make him pull the trigger. It's obvious to anyone with some logical ability that the god is responsible for everything and cannot ever be the "loving father" it is supposed to be. Being omnipotent and thus omniscient, it would know the outcome of all of history down to the very last detail, and thus be in a position to change all this. The original sin and every "evil" act mankind has ever done could easily have been avoided if the god wished so, but it chose to allow this future to come to being, efficiently becoming the sole responsible authority behind every "evil" ever, but still judging us for committing them. Not a fellow anyone in their right minds would want to worship. |
| It's simply because we are not designed to be perfect and does not deserve what is called savior. To get that green card, we need to do something. |
bottle said: Indeed. According to Christian mythology, their god is a vile tyrant, purposefully creating flawed beings and threatening to punish them for it lest they worship him. It is a choice of death or genuflection. It's simply because we are not designed to be perfect and does not deserve what is called savior. To get that green card, we need to do something. Small wonder they call it a "slave morality". |
| Indeed, when the slaves forget they won't even exist or have any ability to think to begin with. |
| God's a bit of a prick isn't he? |
| Question time! If god asked you to jump of a cliff? Would you do it? |
 |
Baman said: JustALEX said: Heh, the Bible is a awful bundle of plot holes and contradictions, especially on this point.Our "free will" is akin to having a gun placed in the back of our heads while the madman tells us to make a choice but only ONE choice pleases him, while the other is sure to make him pull the trigger. It's obvious to anyone with some logical ability that the god is responsible for everything and cannot ever be the "loving father" it is supposed to be. Being omnipotent and thus omniscient, it would know the outcome of all of history down to the very last detail, and thus be in a position to change all this. The original sin and every "evil" act mankind has ever done could easily have been avoided if the god wished so, but it chose to allow this future to come to being, efficiently becoming the sole responsible authority behind every "evil" ever, but still judging us for committing them. Not a fellow anyone in their right minds would want to worship. Because he didn't want to make puppets. Yes, God could have mad man unable to commit sin, but then what would be the point of him making man in the first place? If you had a child, you would want it to choose to love you, not have to love you. It then comes down to if someone chooses to sin/continue to sin/repent for their actions. But then of course this deviates into different opinions of right and wrong, and were not all bout to suddenly come to a consensus on the matter. That's just my humble opinion, most likely flawed in some way. Please don't take my statement as some widely accepted opinion, it happens to much. (In general, that is) |
 If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
bottle said: Well, if something as absurd as a god like that actually existed, we could just use our equally absurd powers of human conviction to cast the tyrant down, feast on its corpse and forge our own destiny, et cetera, glorious chaos and so on and so forth.Indeed, when the slaves forget they won't even exist or have any ability to think to begin with. QuiGonJon said: So what.Because he didn't want to make puppets. Yes, God could have mad man unable to commit sin, but then what would be the point of him making man in the first place? If you had a child, you would want it to choose to love you, not have to love you. It then comes down to if someone chooses to sin/continue to sin/repent for their actions. The fact remains that the god would be solely responsible for all the "evil" in the world, but still be punishing the witless puppets that were just doing what he made them to do. We might have free will from our perspective, but from the omniscient god's perspective, everything that happens till the end of time is already decided and allowed to happen by his will. |
Baman said: QuiGonJon said: So what.Because he didn't want to make puppets. Yes, God could have mad man unable to commit sin, but then what would be the point of him making man in the first place? If you had a child, you would want it to choose to love you, not have to love you. It then comes down to if someone chooses to sin/continue to sin/repent for their actions. The fact remains that the god would be solely responsible for all the "evil" in the world, but still be punishing the witless puppets that were just doing what he made them to do. We might have free will from our perspective, but from the omniscient god's perspective, everything that happens till the end of time is already decided and allowed to happen by his will. Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. |
If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
| Honestly I don't think there's much correlation between personal belief and religious belief. I've met fairly intelligent Catholics and borderline retarded atheists. Sure maybe intelligence does play some role in belief but in the end it mostly comes down to faith. (And I'm an atheist in case that plays any role in my answer) |
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QuiGonJon said: Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. Then it's his fault for making sinning so damn fun and enjoyable. It's also healthy in some cases. If his intention is for us not to sin, then he's an asshole. |
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
JennyEsquire said: QuiGonJon said: Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. Then it's his fault for making sinning so damn fun and enjoyable. It's also healthy in some cases. If his intention is for us not to sin, then he's an asshole. QuiGonJon said: But then of course this deviates into different opinions of right and wrong, and were not all bout to suddenly come to a consensus on the matter. |
If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
QuiGonJon said: QuiGonJon said: But then of course this deviates into different opinions of right and wrong, and were not all bout to suddenly come to a consensus on the matter. I'm sorry, I was cold posting. |
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
JennyEsquire said: QuiGonJon said: QuiGonJon said: But then of course this deviates into different opinions of right and wrong, and were not all bout to suddenly come to a consensus on the matter. I'm sorry, I was cold posting. I'm not familiar with that term, mind elaborating? :P |
QuiGonJonJan 7, 2013 5:46 PM
If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
QuiGonJon said: I'm not familiar with that term, mind elaborating? :P I posted without having read most of this thread |
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
JennyEsquire said: QuiGonJon said: I'm not familiar with that term, mind elaborating? :P I posted without having read most of this thread Ah I see, thanks |
If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
QuiGonJon said: You miss my point.Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. On the subject of guilt, it is irrelevant whether or not this god planned every action. To him, they are all known, the fates of every victim of war and murder and even what you will have for breakfast tomorrow. Being the ultimate creator, he has made the world as it is, fully knowing everything that will happen, and so, he is the only one to blame for everything. And even if, according to Christianity, it's god did not design humans with a preference for modes of behaviour which he arbitrarily categorized as sinful, he still knew beforehand they would eat that silly apple and end up doing it all anyways. His inaction in light of his position as omnipotent creator means we are all fundamentally guiltless in anything we do, as anything we do has already been deemed acceptable by god when he created us. And thus, God is found guilty of all the evils in this world. |
| I see no reason to think that intelligence and religious belief are at odds with one another. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
| what the hell are you basing "intelligence" off of? people who do math well? people who knew how to build shit like the coloseums and pyramids? shits too vague to just say "intelligent" people. someone is always going to know something that another person does not. i guess a good example of religious intelligence would be the Free Masons. even the Vatican has scientists and shit. |
| I doubt that anyone here is in MENSA (don't take this negatively, I just doubt it), but religion is independent of intelligence to a degree. |
Baman said: bottle said: Well, if something as absurd as a god like that actually existed, we could just use our equally absurd powers of human conviction to cast the tyrant down, feast on its corpse and forge our own destiny, et cetera, glorious chaos and so on and so forth.Indeed, when the slaves forget they won't even exist or have any ability to think to begin with. Actually, human probably did it, there probably existed more than one human kind on earth. Sometimes I think we may be just cockroaches in front of god. It's really absurd but there are some persons who raise cockroaches as pets. |
Baman said: QuiGonJon said: You miss my point.Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. On the subject of guilt, it is irrelevant whether or not this god planned every action. To him, they are all known, the fates of every victim of war and murder and even what you will have for breakfast tomorrow. Being the ultimate creator, he has made the world as it is, fully knowing everything that will happen, and so, he is the only one to blame for everything. And even if, according to Christianity, it's god did not design humans with a preference for modes of behaviour which he arbitrarily categorized as sinful, he still knew beforehand they would eat that silly apple and end up doing it all anyways. His inaction in light of his position as omnipotent creator means we are all fundamentally guiltless in anything we do, as anything we do has already been deemed acceptable by god when he created us. And thus, God is found guilty of all the evils in this world. Yes its true he knew what would happen, and he knew this even before he put his plan into motion, including how different people would act and use free will and the sins some would commit. That doesn't mean he wouldn't go through with his plan to avoid said sins form being committed. Do you keep children from playing with each other because you know there will eventually come a time when they will fight and possibly hurt each other? The most important thing to God when he created man was free will, and he would give it to man regardless of the fact that some would misuse it. It's not deemed as acceptable, more as inevitable. He is saddened by this, but he sees free will as more than worth it. Inaction =/= Guilt Is a father guilty of a child getting hurt by falling off a bike because the father didn't take away the child's bike, even while knowing the child would almost certainly get hurt while learning to ride it? |
QuiGonJonJan 7, 2013 9:30 PM
If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
Baman said: QuiGonJon said: You miss my point.Sure, God would be responsible for evil existing, but not for the actions one takes. He didn't make them to sin, he made them able to sin. (Well according to Christianity it would be more akin to man being having the choice to be able to sin; that is the fall of man where man was deceived, ate the fruit and was then able to sin. My point being that man wasn't designed to be able to sin, but I digress) I heard an interesting theory on the issue of free will, that being certain events and the conclusion are already set in stone, with all else having a bit more flexibility. For instance, someone may be set to die at a certain time, but life choices would lead to different deaths, each set of choices and ultimate outcome all having different repercussions, but still ultimately being the same conclusion. God didn't plan every single second, he set the cogs in motion, leaving most of the journey to us, while the destination remains unchanged regardless. Something (vaguely)akin to the World Line Convergence in Steins;Gate, if you will. That's just my take on the matter though. On the subject of guilt, it is irrelevant whether or not this god planned every action. To him, they are all known, the fates of every victim of war and murder and even what you will have for breakfast tomorrow. Being the ultimate creator, he has made the world as it is, fully knowing everything that will happen, and so, he is the only one to blame for everything. And even if, according to Christianity, it's god did not design humans with a preference for modes of behaviour which he arbitrarily categorized as sinful, he still knew beforehand they would eat that silly apple and end up doing it all anyways. His inaction in light of his position as omnipotent creator means we are all fundamentally guiltless in anything we do, as anything we do has already been deemed acceptable by god when he created us. And thus, God is found guilty of all the evils in this world. Ah! But by being the ultimate creator, everything it does is ultimately "right". So if the Creator says that punching babies is right and just, than that becomes a new law of the universe, unchallenged by the puny beings of its creation. |
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