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Poll: Nekomonogatari: Kuro Episode 4 Discussion


Jan 5, 2013 8:57 AM

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Pretty good shitz...... I liked it more than Nisemonogatari.....

8/10
 
Jan 5, 2013 10:50 AM

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Finally done. It was quite the trip with the graphics and all. I was not exposed to such nudity with Hanekawa since ever. This was quite the discovery. First of all in terms of the episode itself.

About the beginning, most likely what left me quite shocked at in the beginning is in the spoiler
this is all it took for a massive rage. It’s never right to hit anyone. Violence solves nothing and makes the other person suffer no matter the excuse it should not be accepted and punishment should be done. However in the classical format it will only make things worst. Ideally the person should go to jail and think things over. If that’s not enough than perhaps death is the only thing against that person, especially if that person becomes a killer for revenge in putting him in jail.

That being said certainly Hanekawa’s family is screwed in the sense that Hanekawa accepted all of it and yet it was burden to her. I would have wished Araragi would have been smarter and move out with her. Guy is 18 and I know even in Canada at 17 you can get your own place so BS! He could have fixed all that like that.

I also did not like Araragi the way he was talking to Meme. Stop insulting Hanekawa? Are you a moronic stupid shit Araragi? Meme is trying to help you and you are a shit to him? That was way pissing off for me. Meme even gave him 3 tips and he is still a idiot while talking with him. The Demon Blade Kokorowatari aka Odditybane reminded me of Sephiroth's blade. Looking at it in the spoiler
the length of it
is the dead giveaway for me.

About the fight, just the speech of Araragi in the beginning and end of the fight. PISSED ME OFF! That’s it I am yelling out murder for stress. I said at least 20 times STFU Araragi and at least 15 times GTFO Araragi you are full of shit. Most of Araragi’s speeches were shit ass annoying. Full of idealism and BS of utmost anger it’s amazing. All ideal. Araragi should meet Ayumu:
http://myanimelist.net/character/38535/Ayumu_Aikawa
They would be good together for some BL, ROFL! Jokes asides very 2 annoying paces and speeches along with the way they were told.

Hanekawa’s goodies were so well exposed it amazes me after 24hrs sleep I still have a perfect body pic of her body in my head. This means it was so well shown that all should know easily in their minds Hanekawa naked. That’s no problem but sexually exploiting her instead of other things that could be done was lame. Good for service bad for the haters of it. In regards to that for me it was a waste of time. At least it was GIF worthy to do for others.

In thee end of this long arc the following,

Is what influences me the most and made me very happy. I was smiling and cheering during that part TBH. The suffering it made the MC male was the Over 9000 joy! Being Araragi is suffering so seeing him suffer makes me happy since it brings a joy and empties the piled anger for him. Seeing Araragi bleed out and spilling out blood got me smiling. It’s rather strange but him being a vampire shit is what makes it best for me as reason to not care of him at all. I am surprised Meme did not kill him and Shinobu. Less she really is a sister of Meme himself as her last name suggests. Still saving anyone that is demon or inflicted by them is a waste of time IMO. They will only cause shit and Araragi being a exception is no excuse. He can still become unstable in the future. Who knows but Nisemonogatari shows it when he loses it out.

At the end of the fight seeing Hanekawa suffering was not good for me and worst of all why exploit her sexually of her ass and vagina? I don’t care but seemed out of place. There is ass shaking and there is ass shaking that makes it Eros. This one failed IMO. However some people like girls in orgasms but in pain at the same time. As strange as it may be I understand it but to me it did not work like that. At least the GIFs were fun to do.

About thee end, well it offers quite the interesting image stitches in the spoiler
and Hanekawa gets her official title of Black Hanekawa! Right. My final words are that Araragi is right. Both are lost causes that should be slaughtered to not bother humanity anymore. We don’t need oddities and the less of them the better. All that is needed are angels and God along with goodness. No need for shitty demons nor vampires nor shit like that. It causes harm, is ugly and their ways always involve humans to be hurt such drinking blood from them. Eating them. Attacking them to drain their energy. Steal their bodies to eat their souls and becoming them. Even with exceptions like the Phoenix, it should be noted that thing can always get wild out of control.

So Hanekawa is stuck with the damn oddity cause of her sheer will power in making it come back while it did leave her in thee end. Well that’s understandable. With all her knowledge in her brain apart from being smart enough to fully synchronize with the beast, she would be smart enough to call it back easily. At least her subconscious might have been.

Hanekawa essentially should not be Hanekawa the summoner. Now imagine she does it with a powerful like Zeus. She would the best Campione ever for sure. Aside from that Hanekawa has potential of being quite an amazing foe if she gets a powerful oddity above the the vampire rank whom is quite possible. Vampire ARE NOT the highest in the beings. There are AAA classes and even SSS ones that way above the Vampires. So yeah she could be a powerhouse danger. Good thing it’s only energy drain and physical damage to the fatal point but still limited like that. It could have been far too dangerous for a more powerful one to do the same for her.

On that end I am done. After 16 hours of fully analyzing graphics making. I got all this series very well analyzed on all aspects and have performed my duties of a graphics person, that capturing most of it for future archives. At least to see any BD vs TV differences.

In effect I have to put this at 5. It was BS compared to the other stories for me. I did give it at first 1/10 but 5 would be more suited for it. This arc really was the weakest IMO. The other ones were way better.

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Jan 5, 2013 1:10 PM

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In the end Hanekawa's problem with her parent's didn't get solved and we all know what happens after that still was a nice anime.
It was pretty bloody when Araragi tried to save that Hanekawa tho i guess he is a masochist especially seeing his relationship with Senjougahara.
I hope we get more of this tho wonder what happens after the last season.
 
Jan 5, 2013 4:18 PM

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Araragi delivers yet again! Great watch!

I am really looking forward to Shinobu's first encounter when Araragi's fate was sealed and he ended up becoming a vampire!

9/10 for yet another amazing segment of the gatari series. :)

 
Jan 5, 2013 5:05 PM

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I am probably in the minority here but this was actually my least favorite of the three series so far. It was still entertaining; however, it failed to grab my attention as much as Bakemono or Nisemono. And, as much I usually enjoy the dialogue in this series, this was the first time that I can remember finding myself bored during some of the conversations.

But, regardless of my complaints, I would still give this a 7/10.
 
Jan 5, 2013 5:13 PM

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Hanekawa without glasses and with her hair loose is so much win!

Hitagi at the end! :D

Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu, Shinobu.

Shinobu ftw. Awesome series. 9/10 better than Nise in my opinion.



I can't be more happier when they showed that at the ending! Can't wait for the others to come! and I want more Hitagi!
 
Jan 5, 2013 6:02 PM

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of course badass shinobu would come in, save the day and look aragi look like a retard lol
 
Jan 5, 2013 8:37 PM

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"After all, I don't love Hanekawa or anything."

This is the first time I've seen Shinobu's - no, Kiss-Shot's sword. Heartspan, the Aberration Killer, was it? One epic katana. Interesting how it has no grip on the hilt. Just the exposed tang of the blade.

Damn, that was a suicidally brutal tactic by Koyomi. Hiding the epic blade inside his own body expecting Black Hanekawa to slice through him and hurt itself doing so. Their first battle was far more brutal than I expected. Tsubasa also gaining control over Black Hanekawa also surprised me. She was consciously attacking people all along?

Holy crap, it's terrifying just how strong Shinobu still is even after she's no longer the proud whole vampire that she was in Kizu. Even in her diminished state, she masterfully demonstrated the difference between the king of aberrations and what she considers small fry.

Loved the epilogue that went on to connect with one of the earliest scenes in Bakemonogatari. Hoping to see Kizumonogatari next. Before Monogatari Series: Second Season comes out.
 
Jan 5, 2013 8:40 PM
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Simply beautiful

7/10
 
Jan 5, 2013 9:38 PM
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we need to see hitagi more
 
Jan 5, 2013 10:06 PM
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I was wondering where arararagi-kun hid the sword.






 
Jan 5, 2013 10:07 PM
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jjrocks24 said:
we need to see hitagi more


Well, it's supposed to happen before bakemonogatari.






 
Jan 5, 2013 10:11 PM

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Wonder when the next Monogatari series will come out. This was a really good one. I actually got a bit of the chills seeing Senjougahara at the end there.
 
Jan 5, 2013 11:19 PM

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TravSavage said:
I actually got a bit of the chills seeing Senjougahara at the end there.


^This


and still waiting patiently for a 3rd season of Spice & Wolf :'|
 
Jan 6, 2013 12:34 AM

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Sweet damn, this series has so much going for it I fall into a mini coma and just fantasize about the possibilities and run though every aspect of the story over and over again in my little anime induced bubble.

Seriously, so much rewatch value in this that shutter of watching it again from the beginning in fear that I'll never stop, or if lord forbids, I start to grow tire of it.
 
Jan 6, 2013 8:17 AM

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Fiji said:
I didn't expect we will get such a convenient plot device called "Aberration Sword".
The problem is that Kizu isnt out yet."Aberration Sword" is first "seen" in Kizu and we do know its power since then.The problem is that SHAFT has yet to release the film.100% not a plot device.

JohnGalt89 said:
I am probably in the minority here but this was actually my least favorite of the three series so far. It was still entertaining; however, it failed to grab my attention as much as Bakemono or Nisemono. And, as much I usually enjoy the dialogue in this series, this was the first time that I can remember finding myself bored during some of the conversations.

But, regardless of my complaints, I would still give this a 7/10.
Same here but my problem was more with parts of the animation,that just werent as good as in Bake and Nise,and while I didnt get bored of the dialogues in Neko Kuro I prefer the ones in Bake and Nise.

I dont know about the others but the Araragi-(Black)Hanekawa dialogues arent that great(IMO) compared to Araragi-Hitagi,Araragi-Hachikuji,Araragi-Shinobu etc we had in Nise and Bake. Araragi-Oshino really saved the day in Neko for me.

It was cool that SHAFT added Hitagi in the end.It would be nice if that was possible in the LN too.
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Jan 6, 2013 9:03 AM

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Honestly thought it was amazing.

It gave Hanekawa and Araragi's relationship a better sense of well-roundness while offering a better perspective in regards to Hanekawa's personality. While Senjougahara and Araragi remains as my favorite couple, the complexity behind Hanekawa's character and the channel (and eventual assimilation) that is Black Hanekawa is something that I greatly find refreshing in terms of a "victimized" character. The confirmation that Black Hanekawa is truly the embodiment of Hanekawa's inner destructive urges was something that I was looking for in Bake, and to see it fully realized in Neko (Kuro) was absolutely brilliant. That scene where she herself was speaking in place of the Sawari Neko (Meddle Cat) was something that really cemented certain theories I had about the character and it confirms a specific layer of depth that has long been hinted throughout the series.

Oshino's neutral stance was something that I greatly enjoyed as well, although at this point, it's certainly easier to pin-point the limits of his insight. In that regard, I find him similar to Kagenui (although Kagenui is less flexible) whereas Kaiki remains as the only one who's views maintain a sense of limitless mystique. While some people complained about Araragi's resolve in this, I really like how the writer went out of his way to really distinguish Araragi's stance towards Hanekawa (regarding the family issues and her own mental issues), and how as a male character who holds a strong bond with a female character, he is actually able to differentiate his attraction to her from "love".

While Nise certainly provided a lot more interesting concepts, the fact that this gave a more wholesome experience regarding Hanekawa and her relationship with Araragi is something that I truly appreciated. While some complained that this lacked the same humor and wit as the other shows of the franchise, I'm honestly grateful it stayed true to form in terms of how Hanekawa's character arcs are written (in that they tend to be more dark, serious and neutrally introspective as it kept getting further into the story). For a quick 2 hour special, I was certainly not disappointed.
Modified by ronri, Jan 7, 2013 2:55 PM
 
Jan 7, 2013 7:47 AM

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DawnJ said:
Tr1ckR said:
If the movie was currently out as well, what order would i watch these releases in? chronological? or the order the novels were released in?


Release order(novel) is bake-kizu-nise-neko(kuro) and that'll be better watching in this order... but we never know when the movie comes.


sweet, thanks for that.
 
Jan 7, 2013 8:23 AM

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ronri said:
Honestly thought it was amazing.

It gave Hanekawa and Araragi's relationship a better sense of well-roundness while offering a better perspective in regards to Hanekawa's personality. While Senjougahara and Araragi remains as my favorite couple, the complexity behind Hanekawa's character and the channel (and eventual assimilation) that is Black Hanekawa is something that I greatly find refreshing in terms of a "victimized" character. The confirmation that Black Hanekawa is truly the embodiment of Hanekawa's inner destructive urges was something that I was looking for in Bake, and to see it fully realized in Neko (Kuro) was absolutely brilliant. That scene where she herself was speaking in place of the Sawari Neko (Meddle Cat) was something that really cemented certain theories I had about the character and it confirms a specific layer of depth that has long been hinted throughout the series.

Oshino's neutral stance was something that I greatly enjoyed as well, although at this point, it's certainly easier to pin-point the limits of his insight. In that regard, I find him similar to Kagenui (although Kagenui is less flexible) whereas Kaiki remains as the only one who's views maintain a sense of limitless mystique. While some people complained about Araragi's resolve in this, I really like how the writer went out of his way to really distinguish Araragi's stance towards Hanekawa (regarding the family issues and her own mental issues), and how as a male a character who holds a strong bond with a female character, he is actually able to differentiate his attraction to her from "love".

While Nise certainly provided a lot more interesting concepts, the fact that this gave a more wholesome experience regarding Hanekawa and her relationship with Araragi is something that I truly appreciated. While some complained that this lacked the same humor and wit as the other shows of the franchise, I'm honestly grateful it stayed true to form in terms of how Hanekawa's character arcs are written (in that they tend to be more dark, serious and neutrally introspective as it kept getting further into the story). For a quick 2 hour special, I was certainly not disappointed.


marry me now
 
Jan 7, 2013 3:48 PM

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I climb those stairs...


and Gahara-san in those stairs... :)
english isn't my native language...
 
Jan 7, 2013 5:25 PM

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Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?
Personally I found the dialogue just as well written as Bakemonogatari with the addition of it being funnier as well, while Bakemonogatari dialogue got slow at times explaining stuff. Furthermore the animation had also got a boost too, and to top it off Oshino Shinobu actually had a good amount of dialogue (which was great). Was the fanservice in it really that off putting?
 
Jan 7, 2013 6:22 PM

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ElPysCongroo said:
Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?
Personally I found the dialogue just as well written as Bakemonogatari with the addition of it being funnier as well, while Bakemonogatari dialogue got slow at times explaining stuff. Furthermore the animation had also got a boost too, and to top it off Oshino Shinobu actually had a good amount of dialogue (which was great). Was the fanservice in it really that off putting?


I personally enjoyed Nise, and while the fanservice was certainly risque, I thought that it was actually in line with the tongue-in-cheek humor of the franchise. Only reason I rated Bake higher is because Nise didn't present as much of a huge development in terms of the characters and it felt more like a solid bridge for what's yet to come (namely Zenmonogatari) than a full-fledged sequel. Admittedly that's also partly the reason why I could tolerate the fanservice as Nise felt more like an exercise of the quirks of the franchise (the supernatural/philosophical aspects as well as the playful sexual tension) instead of specifically focusing on the characters/story.

Now regarding Neko (Kuro), I actually find it ridiculous that people are calling out for Shinobu's sword (aka the "Oddity/Aberration Killer") as a deus ex machina (do people know what the term even means anymore?). The weapon was something that was foreshadowed since Bake (Oshino even suggested on using it to cut Kanbaru's Rainy Devil arm), and its presence here is practically something that was long-awaited since its very mention in the original series. If anything, it was simply a plot device that was symbolic of Shinobu's cooperation and understanding since only she could use it properly (not even mentioning the fact that it practically merges with her, to seemingly enhance her well-established energy drain).
Modified by ronri, Jan 7, 2013 6:54 PM
 
Jan 7, 2013 10:18 PM

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With all that sexy lingerie I could not keep up with the subtitles!

Great story, Tsubasa should get another chance at getting Koyomi.

I can't wait to watch the prequel to this arc!

9/10
 
Jan 8, 2013 2:08 AM

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Koyomi Araragi's legs do not give a single fuck.

ElPysCongroo said:
Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?

Yes.
 
Jan 8, 2013 8:14 AM

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ronri said:
ElPysCongroo said:
Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?
Personally I found the dialogue just as well written as Bakemonogatari with the addition of it being funnier as well, while Bakemonogatari dialogue got slow at times explaining stuff. Furthermore the animation had also got a boost too, and to top it off Oshino Shinobu actually had a good amount of dialogue (which was great). Was the fanservice in it really that off putting?


I personally enjoyed Nise, and while the fanservice was certainly risque, I thought that it was actually in line with the tongue-in-cheek humor of the franchise. Only reason I rated Bake higher is because Nise didn't present as much of a huge development in terms of the characters and it felt more like a solid bridge for what's yet to come (namely Zenmonogatari) than a full-fledged sequel. Admittedly that's also partly the reason why I could tolerate the fanservice as Nise felt more like an exercise of the quirks of the franchise (the supernatural/philosophical aspects as well as the playful sexual tension) instead of specifically focusing on the characters/story.

Now regarding Neko (Kuro), I actually find it ridiculous that people are calling out for Shinobu's sword (aka the "Oddity/Aberration Killer") as a deus ex machina (do people know what the term even means anymore?). The weapon was something that was foreshadowed since Bake (Oshino even suggested on using it to cut Kanbaru's Rainy Devil arm), and its presence here is practically something that was long-awaited since its very mention in the original series. If anything, it was simply a plot device that was symbolic of Shinobu's cooperation and understanding since only she could use it properly (not even mentioning the fact that it practically merges with her, to seemingly enhance her well-established energy drain).


I'm not sure to interpret it like the sword enhances her Energy Drain.

 
Jan 8, 2013 9:00 AM

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mugimugi said:

I'm not sure to interpret it like the sword enhances her Energy Drain.



Thanks for the info. Well that certainly reinforces the point of what I was saying even more, in that the sword was more of a plot device that led to Shinobu's full cooperation. So if anything, it was Shinobu herself that committed to helping Araragi instead of merely simply lending a hand by offering the use of the sword.
Modified by ronri, Jan 8, 2013 9:04 AM
 
Jan 9, 2013 3:01 AM
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Did anyone else notice the tie ins from Nekomonogatari to Nisemonogatari?

Like how Karen was going to sacrifice herself for her classmates but was stopped by Araragi who told her to settle for self satisfaction, when he was willing to die for Hanekawa's sake in this prequel. I think the hate on Nisemonogatari is really unjustified, because there was a lot of thought provoking themes and overall the character development of Araragi.

Also, why Araragi doesn't love Hanekawa. You can notice the fundamental difference between Hitagi and Hanekawa in the difference between their arcs. In Hitagi Crab, Araragi helps Hitagi with her situation but didn't save her, as Oshino Meme says it, you can only save yourself. By begging for her dignity back from the Crab God, Hitagi is able to save herself. Hanekawa has a problem but seeks for her "savior" (Araragi) to save her, but she can only save herself by confronting her own stress. Remember how in Bakemonogatari she gains stress again because she loves Araragi? Instead of confessing her love she escapes into Black Hanekawa, again leaving it to Araragi to drain her stress, in other words, running away. Araragi cannot return his feelings to Hanekawa until Hanekawa confronts her own problems herself instead of relying on Araragi.

Modified by ItaDrakere, Jan 9, 2013 3:42 AM
 
Jan 9, 2013 3:26 AM

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^It was even better in the LN,as you know,since Araragi was like some sort of medium always looking into the future.

Like that he would never attack a twintailed grade schooler etc....
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Jan 9, 2013 4:23 AM

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drakere said:
Did anyone else notice the tie ins from Nekomonogatari to Nisemonogatari?

Like how Karen was going to sacrifice herself for her classmates but was stopped by Araragi who told her to settle for self satisfaction, when he was willing to die for Hanekawa's sake in this prequel. I think the hate on Nisemonogatari is really unjustified, because there was a lot of thought provoking themes and overall the character development of Araragi.

Also, why Araragi doesn't love Hanekawa. You can notice the fundamental difference between Hitagi and Hanekawa in the difference between their arcs. In Hitagi Crab, Araragi helps Hitagi with her situation but didn't save her, as Oshino Meme says it, you can only save yourself. By begging for her dignity back from the Crab God, Hitagi is able to save herself. Hanekawa has a problem but seeks for her "savior" (Araragi) to save her, but she can only save herself by confronting her own stress. Remember how in Bakemonogatari she gains stress again because she loves Araragi? Instead of confessing her love she escapes into Black Hanekawa, again leaving it to Araragi to drain her stress, in other words, running away. Araragi cannot return his feelings to Hanekawa until Hanekawa confronts her own problems herself instead of relying on Araragi.



Good post. I agree, I really enjoyed Nisemonogatari as it presented a lot of interesting themes. Also agree with the notion behind the difference between Senjougahara and Hanekawa.
 
Jan 9, 2013 7:05 PM

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Good ending and good show overall. I liked it. Now I need Kizumonogatari. Need more Shinobu.
 
Jan 12, 2013 7:36 AM

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Shinobu-chan was awesome.

Loved how it meshed perfectly with the next chapter being what we have already seen.

8/10 love the series and the preview of Monogatari S2 was exciting!
 
Jan 12, 2013 2:18 PM

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8/10
I have to say tho I was a little confused at the start, and I still am.

The thing tho that made Nekomonogatari for me was the end epilogue that Koyomi spoke before the credits.
And the last two sentences in particular:
"Araragi Koyomi fell out of love for the first time though he wasnt in love."
Now here is the awesome part:
"I climb those stairs."
And you se a silouete of Senjougahara standing at the stairs, then cuting out to the credits.
It sent shivers down my spine, i'm loving it (´ ▽`).。o♡

I have to say tho I have enjoyed Bakemonogatari the most 10/10 and Nisemonogatari 8/10, excited for the next season aswell.
 
Jan 12, 2013 8:54 PM

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Rewston said:
8/10
I have to say tho I was a little confused at the start, and I still am.


It's not so much she'll get possessed by it again. Remember that at the end, Oshino said that she actually absorbed it, so it essentially became a part of her. In Bakemonogatari, I assume that she did the reverse in comparison to Nekonogatari. While the Sawari Neko (Meddle Cat) allowed Hanekawa to use its abilities to terrorize people in Nekomonogatari, I would assume that in Bakemonogatari that Hanekawa hid herself and allowed the Sawari Neko to do its own thing because she didn't want to confront Araragi about her feelings towards him. I think it's really cool though, and it certainly offers an interesting dynamic about Hanekawa's character.
 
Jan 13, 2013 2:43 AM

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Ah yes that makes sence, thank you for shedding some light on the issue for me. (o・_・)ノ”(ノ_<。)

I was just checking aswell how Araragi was acting around when Hanekawa brought up her issue again in Bakemonogatari, and idd they are connecting well, Araragi even says: "It really does seem like a continuation of Golden Week." But Hanekawa ofc has no clue of what he is talking about, its a new issue for her.

Edit: Had a double post >,>
 
Jan 13, 2013 4:02 AM

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Rewston said:
Ah yes that makes sence, thank you for shedding some light on the issue for me. (o・_・)ノ”(ノ_<。)

I was just checking aswell how Araragi was acting around when Hanekawa brought up her issue again in Bakemonogatari, and idd they are connecting well, Araragi even says: "It really does seem like a continuation of Golden Week." But Hanekawa ofc has no clue of what he is talking about, its a new issue for her.

Edit: Had a double post >,>


Yup pretty much. Something interesting I liked in Nekomonogatari is that Hanekawa COULD'VE retained her memories, but that the whole experience led to her forgetting them and that's the price she paid. Bakemonogatari was great because they kept it ambiguous, so we never know if Hanekawa remembers her experience when Black Hanekawa revealed Hanekawa's love for Araragi. I honestly can't wait for the next season of Monogatari though. ^_^
Modified by ronri, Jan 13, 2013 4:05 AM
 
Jan 14, 2013 7:02 PM

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Love it! Ever since I became a Bakemonogatari fan, I've been dying to see the rest of the monogatari animes. Shaft always amazes me with their animation. :D

@D3ad_Fantasy: gosh, I love your avatar!! ♥
Senjougahara: Don't call me "this chick"
Araragi: Then what should I call you?
Senjougahara: Senjougahara-sama.
Araragi: SEN - JOU - GA - HAA - RAA - SAA - MAA
Senjougahara: I don't like the way you say it. Say it properly.
Araragi: Senjougahara-chan~
 
Jan 21, 2013 11:05 AM

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hatahari said:
Love it! Ever since I became a Bakemonogatari fan, I've been dying to see the rest of the monogatari animes. Shaft always amazes me with their animation. :D

@D3ad_Fantasy: gosh, I love your avatar!! ♥


thanks mate :)
 
Jan 27, 2013 10:54 PM

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Elite60 said:
I don't care if you can regenerate...getting sliced in half will hurt like a royal bitch.

I completely agree w/ you, im surprised that he could still talk.

 
Jan 30, 2013 11:32 AM

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This was decent overall...there were some funny moments.
 
Feb 23, 2013 6:34 AM
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again the monogatari series never fails me. awesome ending and the dialogue are amazing
 
Feb 26, 2013 5:39 PM
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:o
BronzeAge
 
Mar 4, 2013 2:26 PM

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I'm starting to think that none of the subsequent animated arcs will ever be near as good, or even better than Bakemonogatari....it was the only season that was well-balanced and did everything right, Nise was close, but not entirely interesting all the way through, Neko....80% fanservice 20% interesting.....if it was atleast 50/50 it would be great...but doing a prequel arc where we know a good bit of background info already from Bake, these 4 episodes were simply not enough I guess that's why I got to stare at a cat in lingerie for 75% of this arc...I understand theres a sequel season to this, and I only hope either that or Kizu will be close to as good as Bake...7/10


"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment"
 
Mar 6, 2013 3:41 AM

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Venom900 said:
I'm starting to think that none of the subsequent animated arcs will ever be near as good, or even better than Bakemonogatari....it was the only season that was well-balanced and did everything right, Nise was close, but not entirely interesting all the way through, Neko....80% fanservice 20% interesting.....if it was atleast 50/50 it would be great...but doing a prequel arc where we know a good bit of background info already from Bake, these 4 episodes were simply not enough I guess that's why I got to stare at a cat in lingerie for 75% of this arc...I understand theres a sequel season to this, and I only hope either that or Kizu will be close to as good as Bake...7/10


I don't know what's worse, the fact that you barely cared for the elaboration of one of the most interesting and long-questioned character dynamics in the series, or the fact that you simply took the majority of this whole thing as simply nothing more than cat-lingerie fanservice....
Modified by ronri, Mar 6, 2013 4:07 AM
 
Mar 8, 2013 9:40 PM

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ronri said:

I don't know what's worse, the fact that you barely cared for the elaboration of one of the most interesting and long-questioned character dynamics in the series, or the fact that you simply took the majority of this whole thing as simply nothing more than cat-lingerie fanservice....


I dont know what's worse, believing your personal opinion is superior to mine, or the arrogance of assuming that I care about it.
Modified by Venom900, Mar 9, 2013 10:56 AM


"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment"
 
Mar 10, 2013 10:29 AM

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Venom900 said:
ronri said:

I don't know what's worse, the fact that you barely cared for the elaboration of one of the most interesting and long-questioned character dynamics in the series, or the fact that you simply took the majority of this whole thing as simply nothing more than cat-lingerie fanservice....


I dont know what's worse, believing your personal opinion is superior to mine, or the arrogance of assuming that I care about it.


No assumptions being made about who's opinion is "superior" here, just an observation regarding the fact that you seemed very quick to dismiss the majority of this (in your own words) as 80% fanservice. Perhaps I injected too much of a sarcastic tone in my previous comment as that seemingly caused you to reply so adamantly. In that regard, I do apologize (though I guess you might not really care at this point? and no I'm not even being sarcastic here).
Modified by ronri, Mar 10, 2013 10:40 AM
 
Mar 10, 2013 11:35 AM

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ronri said:
Venom900 said:
ronri said:

I don't know what's worse, the fact that you barely cared for the elaboration of one of the most interesting and long-questioned character dynamics in the series, or the fact that you simply took the majority of this whole thing as simply nothing more than cat-lingerie fanservice....


I dont know what's worse, believing your personal opinion is superior to mine, or the arrogance of assuming that I care about it.


No assumptions being made about who's opinion is "superior" here, just an observation regarding the fact that you seemed very quick to dismiss the majority of this (in your own words) as 80% fanservice. Perhaps I injected too much of a sarcastic tone in my previous comment as that seemingly caused you to reply so adamantly. In that regard, I do apologize (though I guess you might not really care at this point? and no I'm not even being sarcastic here).


I found it to be pretty sarcastic, I usually reply with a sarcastic reply similiar to the one that was given to me if one was given, otherwise it's much more civilized, now that we both know we're being serious here....

It's not as if I went through the 4 episodes one after the other over the span of 2-3 hours and quickly and blantantly worded it off as fanservice. I spent about 5 or 6 days watching this one, coupled with other shows aswell. I'm a huge fan of Bakemonogatari, so naturally I'm going to compare the one I liked the most to the others in the series. It's not that it was bad, infact I liked how it finally picked up in episode 3 toward the middle of it, but it felt like this arc had only two focal points (fanservice and tsubasa's past), and because of how the first episode progressed (teaser fanservice of a boy who has sexual desires to a girl) I was a bit annoyed because it was too short imo to use up an entire episode just for that, one can argue that it builds up the story, but I don't buy it..I was against a prequel arc when I heard of this being aired eventually because if memory serves, a good portion of Tsubasa's story (past and present) was explained in the latter half of Bake, being a prequel series it was obvious that Koyomi would not succeed in truely saving her in this one. Personally a sequel arc would have been great, I liked Tsubasa's character but I felt like she deserved a better closure, like Hitagi.

As a side note, what I meant by caring or not was in regards to your sarcastic remarks, not the remark itself, but the tone of it. I'm not usually one to off and comment about other people's comments because naturely they are either the same, or the opposite which is pointless to simply say hey I agree, or hey this is why your wrong but occassionally I'll write something in reply to another if I feel that strong about it, or such as this when someone has challenged me to prove my side.


"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment"
 
Mar 10, 2013 5:22 PM

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Venom900 said:

I found it to be pretty sarcastic, I usually reply with a sarcastic reply similiar to the one that was given to me if one was given, otherwise it's much more civilized, now that we both know we're being serious here....

It's not as if I went through the 4 episodes one after the other over the span of 2-3 hours and quickly and blantantly worded it off as fanservice. I spent about 5 or 6 days watching this one, coupled with other shows aswell. I'm a huge fan of Bakemonogatari, so naturally I'm going to compare the one I liked the most to the others in the series. It's not that it was bad, infact I liked how it finally picked up in episode 3 toward the middle of it, but it felt like this arc had only two focal points (fanservice and tsubasa's past), and because of how the first episode progressed (teaser fanservice of a boy who has sexual desires to a girl) I was a bit annoyed because it was too short imo to use up an entire episode just for that, one can argue that it builds up the story, but I don't buy it..I was against a prequel arc when I heard of this being aired eventually because if memory serves, a good portion of Tsubasa's story (past and present) was explained in the latter half of Bake, being a prequel series it was obvious that Koyomi would not succeed in truely saving her in this one. Personally a sequel arc would have been great, I liked Tsubasa's character but I felt like she deserved a better closure, like Hitagi.

As a side note, what I meant by caring or not was in regards to your sarcastic remarks, not the remark itself, but the tone of it. I'm not usually one to off and comment about other people's comments because naturely they are either the same, or the opposite which is pointless to simply say hey I agree, or hey this is why your wrong but occassionally I'll write something in reply to another if I feel that strong about it, or such as this when someone has challenged me to prove my side.


Thank you for the reply, while I was initially very sarcastic in my tone, this was actually the kind of answer I was hoping for, so I apologize for my initial comment for being too premature in the way I reacted.

Fair enough, but that's the thing I really enjoyed about this. Although despite the gratuitous nature of the initial teasing of the love vs. lust aspect (which was admittedly entertaining in its own way), what I actually loved about that particular segment is that it actually addressed a lot of questions that many fans have speculated or questioned regarding Araragi's case: in that, did Araragi actually love Hanekawa and was simply in denial of it due to being more aware of his love for Hitagi first? Was Hitagi REALLY just lucky for asking him out first? These were many questions that fans have continually speculated, and this arc is pretty much a full elaboration behind Araragi and Hanekawa's dynamic as characters.

In that regard, I actually appreciated what they did and how they set up the whole premise. Araragi fell out of "love" for the first time, only to realize that he wasn't really in love with Hanekawa, and I felt that gave a more pronounced meaning behind how special his relationship with Hitagi truly was. I found that this felt more like a proper answer to the questions posed in Bake (WHY does Hanekawa have a sour relationship with her parents? why is the Meddle Cat/Sawari Neko so keen on siding with Hanekawa? is Black Hanekawa simply Hanekawa possessed? or is it Hanekawa's dark impulses unleashed? is it possible that Hanekawa is acting according to her own free will?). In this regard, it actually gave more depth in the reasoning behind Hanekawa's possession and her relationship with her parents as opposed to being a reiteration of Bake. I also applaud the writer for re-establishing the mythology of the Meddle Cat, not to mention it's actualization as a new and unique case of a human turning into real aberration.

While I agree that Hanekawa certainly deserves better closure (since the content given here are more of an answer to the questions posed in Bake, while also acting as a foreshadowing to the future events depicted in Bake), I take refuge in the fact that this arc can be taken as an elaborate prelude to the one in the upcoming Zenmonogatari with her respective arc actually being labeled as "Nekomonogatari: Shiro" (which hints at being the final arc to conclude Hanekawa's dealings with the Meddle Cat).
 
Mar 10, 2013 6:26 PM

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ronri said:

Thank you for the reply, while I was initially very sarcastic in my tone, this was actually the kind of answer I was hoping for, so I apologize for my initial comment for being too premature in the way I reacted.

Fair enough, but that's the thing I really enjoyed about this. Although despite the gratuitous nature of the initial teasing of the love vs. lust aspect (which was admittedly entertaining in its own way), what I actually loved about that particular segment is that it actually addressed a lot of questions that many fans have speculated or questioned regarding Araragi's case: in that, did Araragi actually love Hanekawa and was simply in denial of it due to being more aware of his love for Hitagi first? Was Hitagi REALLY just lucky for asking him out first? These were many questions that fans have continually speculated, and this arc is pretty much a full elaboration behind Araragi and Hanekawa's dynamic as characters.

In that regard, I actually appreciated what they did and how they set up the whole premise. Araragi fell out of "love" for the first time, only to realize that he wasn't really in love with Hanekawa, and I felt that gave a more pronounced meaning behind how special his relationship with Hitagi truly was. I found that this felt more like a proper answer to the questions posed in Bake (WHY does Hanekawa have a sour relationship with her parents? why is the Meddle Cat/Sawari Neko so keen on siding with Hanekawa? is Black Hanekawa simply Hanekawa possessed? or is it Hanekawa's dark impulses unleashed? is it possible that Hanekawa is acting according to her own free will?). In this regard, it actually gave more depth in the reasoning behind Hanekawa's possession and her relationship with her parents as opposed to being a reiteration of Bake. I also applaud the writer for re-establishing the mythology of the Meddle Cat, not to mention it's actualization as a new and unique case of a human turning into real aberration.

While I agree that Hanekawa certainly deserves better closure (since the content given here are more of an answer to the questions posed in Bake, while also acting as a foreshadowing to the future events depicted in Bake), I take refuge in the fact that this arc can be taken as an elaborate prelude to the one in the upcoming Zenmonogatari with her respective arc actually being labeled as "Nekomonogatari: Shiro" (which hints at being the final arc to conclude Hanekawa's dealings with the Meddle Cat).


I actually edited out a lot of what I'm going to reply with because I had no idea how you would respond to my sarcastic reply (which this part was actually civilized, only the first line was sarcastic in the first version), normally most would reply as immature back as they possibly could and really after my reply I would say I deserve it because all I did was add fuel to the fire (which in this case I also apologize for), but that's just how I am in those situations but I figured that's how your second reply would play out, so writing it all out would have been basically pointless so I thought. In fact I think you're probably the first in awhile that has turned out to be quite civilized once you start working it out which is pretty cool actually.

When I said that the first ep could be argued as sort of a build-up is actually referring to what you stated, but I saw it a bit differently, which is why I said It would be hard for me to buy into it. To elaborate, I personally saw the lust thing as the initial conflict that this arc would be based on (which actually it was, and Araragi was put to the test with it during the vastly long scenes with Hanekawa in lingerie)...but I felt like it was too...comedic for too long, Bake opened up comedic, but by the first episode's end it got pretty deep when Hitagi was introduced. Because it was too comedic for too long, I really couldn't take it serious, and that also expanded out during the second episode until the end (I'm very confident that Araragi nearly dying was a very serious moment, probably one of the most serious moments in the animated series)
From practically the end of the first episode I won't keep it a secret, I was pretty down about the arc, add that to my already slight negative attitude towards it because of wanting more of a sequel (which I saw on earlier replies to this post there's a sequel, but I searched for it and never came up on MAL, so I dismissed it, thanks for clarifying that, I will definately look forward to Zenmonogatari).

I was also a bit...unimpressed with the answer given in regards to why Hanekawa was so distant to her parents, I felt like (unless I missed something in the dialogue, which is totally possible) the answer was, either really simple or wasn't given at all. Her parents she's with, are not her biological parents, nor are they related in any which manner, but I got really perked up so to speak, when it was revealed her father hit her, but was largely disappointed with the sort of brushing under the carpet answer to the question: Why? Simply because she talks back to her parents in a fairly rude way, because thats how she is, I felt like it was a very much unsuspenseful, or rather a really normal problem that most people in their high school years experience, that in my mind, doesn't add up to why she summoned the Cursed Cat. In Bake, it turns out that Araragi and the people around her are also part of the reason as to why she's so stressed out, but that's in Bake, for the prequel to really have a problem that's too normal for a series that has pretty complex problems, there's a lot more to it I would bet that has yet to be revealed.

When it brought to light whether or not maybe she's purposefully possessing herself, or whether it was out of her hands I thought it brought more confusion than it did clarification. During the 4th episode it was just really confusing when it was brought up how maybe she was responsible all along for the Cursed Cat, and not the curse itself, but really that in my mind atleast, left more questions than answers for a final episode, because I'm not entirely sure, but that really wasn't explained either in Bake, but as you said, there's a sequel so I'll leave it at that, now that I know.

In regards to what I would call "hidden love triangle" I'm not exactly sure what to think of it at all, It's not like he didn't confuse lust with love toward Hitagi at the beginning either, but with the way the 4th episode ended, I would probably believe that Hitagi did get there first, but also because she seems interested towards him, it felt pretty much like a one-sided relationship between Araragi and Hanekawa in both Bake and in Neko, this could also be because she's much more focused/stressed with her own problems, to add more to it. As a whole, I think the entire series deserves a 10, it sucks to break good series down by arcs like this one, because then you get real technical which can be good, but also bad, depending on how you view it.
Modified by Venom900, Mar 10, 2013 6:32 PM


"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment"
 
Mar 15, 2013 6:16 PM

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@Venom900

I apologize for the VERY late reply. Anyway, yeah I'm sorry for the initial comment and I appreciate the full-length reasoning you're actually giving.

Contrary to what you're saying, I actually thought that most of the comedy only ensued during Araragi's time with his sisters, and even then I felt that his conversation with Tsukihi was more than welcome (seeing as how we barely got to see much of her in Nise). Still in that regard, I thought this arc actually got serious pretty quickly and stayed that way all throughout (even with the minor comedic moments). Even with Black Hanekawa in lingerie, a lot of scenes came across as being more dangerous for Araragi than necessarily something playfully teasing, especially in comparison to Bake. With Hanekawa and Araragi's interactions, I tend to find that it's a lot less natural (a lot of their reactions seemed more like they just played along with whatever the other one was saying than necessarily having stuff come in naturally and casually). This feels especially true in comparison to Araragi's casual conversations with Senjougahara which feels more playfully self-aware than anything awkward.

Now regarding Hanekawa's parents, I find that it's actually far more complex than it comes across. Do realize she's been living there for a decade (apparently 10-15 years). For a whole decade she's been living with a family that are practically strangers to her, and she doesn't even have a room (looking up some sources just now to further clarify, apparently her bed is just in the middle of a hallway while her clothes are just hung around the place on walls). Apparently they barely even talk to each other at all, and it makes sense why she's so diligent in the way she acts. She's practically living with people that doesn't truly know her, know what to do with her or even want her. Now account that whole decade of alienation. Her talking back to her "father" and getting slapped definitely makes sense. It's definitely wrong, but account for the context of it all. She was a stranger to them just as much she views them to be. Now for me honestly, this in itself was already frightening (and the literal elaboration of how she lived in the house made it even worse) but what I enjoyed was the revelation of Hanekawa's character which foreshadows a certain development regarding her run as Black Hanekawa.

Hanekawa acts "normal" all the time. Being in a hard life like that is bad, but the fact that she doesn't even react normally (i.e. move out, fight back etc.) and acts very polite is something that was never shown before. Hanekawa was described as being so mechanical in her actions that it wasn't even natural anymore, acting as if she's living normally despite her circumstances. And this is all done as if it were routine for her. Recall what Oshino said regarding the incident where she was slapped by her dad. Instead of crying, or fighting back, or even talking back, she literally lectures them in a creepily polite manner. Not even in the way that you'd tell off a parent, but as if she was just calmly lecturing some random stranger DESPITE just being slapped across the room. Putting this into context, she's been like this for most of her life, in the way that her actions are dictated based on some twisted sense of self-righteousness. This isn't to say that she should be blamed, rather as Oshino points out, she's the "cause" of all of this (specifically removing the negative connotation "fault" since Oshino means it more in a neutral sense).

That unique mentality coupled with the built-up stress is why the Meddle Cat even lent her so much power and autonomy when it "possessed" her. It's revealed that she didn't even summon the Meddle Cat. Heck it's practically wrong to say that it "possessed" her anymore, as they both willingly worked and "merged" with each other, forming an entirely new abberration/oddity. Normally the Meddle Cat only really used its abilities to highlight the negative aspects of a person (remember that segment in which the legend speaks of a moral that a person is never truly possessed by the Meddle Cat, rather it was their negative qualities being highlighted by it, due to its nature of "cursing" others). Now the fact that Hanekawa was so robotic in the way she thinks, the Meddle Cat actually felt inclined to pitch in for her and kept Hanekawa's knowledge and autonomy intact, far beyond what it normally does for someone. She regained control of herself after the cat attacked her parents. From then on she absorbed the cat and used its power to relieve her stress with the cat actually allowing her to do all of this. I honestly enjoyed the final confrontation when it was revealed that Hanekawa could willingly switch between her own personality and the Meddle Cat. It certainly created an interesting contrast in that in Neko:Kuro she was purposely taking control to vent out her frustrations against others, while in Bake, she unintentionally hid herself to dodge the notion of confessing to Araragi, letting the Meddle Cat do all the work for her by literally embodying her stress (as opposed to taking it all on her own like in NekoKuro). In that regard, it's almost presented as a symbiotic relationship, with Hanekawa mainly being the one in control at all times, while the Meddle Cat only acts as a powerful yet sentient medium for her that allows her to act out what she truly feels (at least in NekoKuro anyway). In the end, as opposed to simply being the fault of "Hanekawa" or the "Meddle Cat", it was described as being the fault of "Black Hanekawa", the collective entity.

As for the love triangle, I honestly think it was mainly one-sided in regards to Hanekawa and Araragi. Even putting aside the lust aspect, I thought that Araragi only felt close towards Hanekawa mainly because he could understand her circumstances more than anyone else. To differentiate this from Hitagi, he didn't desire to have anything to do with Hanekawa at all (i.e. "sharing a life"), rather he felt inclined to make her understand herself and her circumstances because only he recognized it, and he felt bad for her denial of it all. This is definitely showcased when Araragi was able to passively say as if he "hated" her during the final confrontation in Neko:Kuro. While Hanekawa certainly replied with the same phrase, the one-sided nature of their relationship is further shown when Hanekawa she could easily say that she "hates" him and internally feels horrible towards herself for literally putting up the same casual mask she wears around everyone (her "polite" attitude) despite truly loving and wanting him to be her "hero". I personally liked the differentiation, it gave more depth and meaning towards Hanekawa's character while highlighting the reasons why Hitagi was truly the one that Araragi first and properly (as well as naturally) fell in love with.

I definitely adore this series, and I do understand why you're not so keen on the short arcs, but personally I like them in that they work well as one-off focus stories that contribute to the main narrative. The fact that the upcoming Zenmonogatari series is being regarded as the 2nd season of Bake is enough indication as to how Nise and NekoKuro are meant to be taken as well; in that they're complementary side arcs. Now in all fairness, I actually watched this in one fell swoop. No breaks, no cuts, I literally watched it as one copy, so the whole thing felt like a proper 2-hour long movie as opposed to a 4-episode arc (which I feel is more appropriate since it was aired that way with small breaks in the middle). I can barely even remember where some of the episodes cut due to the fact that I watched it continuously. In that regard, I felt that it definitely delivered as a 2-hour special that showcases a prequel arc and I felt that it actually did a lot more than one might usually expect from stuff like these (especially considering how serious it quickly turned into, for me at least).
Modified by ronri, Mar 15, 2014 10:37 AM
 
Mar 18, 2013 2:13 PM
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Venom900 said:
I'm starting to think that none of the subsequent animated arcs will ever be near as good, or even better than Bakemonogatari....it was the only season that was well-balanced and did everything right, Nise was close, but not entirely interesting all the way through, Neko....80% fanservice 20% interesting.....if it was atleast 50/50 it would be great...but doing a prequel arc where we know a good bit of background info already from Bake, these 4 episodes were simply not enough I guess that's why I got to stare at a cat in lingerie for 75% of this arc...I understand theres a sequel season to this, and I only hope either that or Kizu will be close to as good as Bake...7/10


just think of neko as one arc to the whole. i believe every arc is 3-4 episodes. you cant really compare this arc to the 4 arcs in bake (or the 3 arcs in nise). if you must compare, it should be by arcs not by the series.

but i do agree that from bake to nise to neko, the fanservice have increased. i wish i could say you can just ignore it, because the dialogue and story is terrific, but the fanservice is terribly hard to miss.

heres to hoping the official season 2 would tone down on fanservice or not increase it anymore.
"....i am the villain in this story"
 
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