Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Poll: Claymore Episode 26 Discussion


Sep 27, 2007 11:07 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23708
Big Pony XD
(possible spoiler for size comparsion of two characters)
 
Sep 27, 2007 11:31 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 835
Boring episode... awful ending. The last few have also been very boring, I was hesitant to even waste time watching this. This episode was just way too lame...

Also, the voices of Clare and Priscilla were so stupid...
 
Sep 27, 2007 12:06 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 106
The ending was way too happy for me and the way she defeated priscilla was unreal. They should have at least made the fight better.

Also i wanted to learn more about the organization. But they didn’t even get into it.

Going to check the manga later on.



Do you know of ‘The Magnificent Steiner’ ? The main character was normally a weak, sickly man. When he was in an emergency, someone would come and help him. A secret friend. But, the main character never realised...... that his secret friend....Was himself.

Grimmer = Legend
 
Sep 27, 2007 12:58 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 89
haha i have that picture of Isley's released form pasted on my wall next to my Gundam posters.. that's way too sexy for words and if they ever get around to animating it and doing it justice as well, i will worship it with all the remnant pieces of my brain after it gets blown off.
 
Sep 27, 2007 3:14 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1569
Kayrhandros said:
Anyway, I was wandering around the net today, and I was reminded of one thing...
Clare made a promise with Ophelia to kill Priscilla... so what happened to that?
I guess Clare showed Ophelia the finger
yet another plot hole.


That one bothered me quite a bit, because it wasn't just that Clare decided to forget about her promise with Ophelia... if you remember, they showed a quick shot of Ophelia as a person who'd entrusted their will to Clare and wanted her to live on. Sure, Ophelia did let Clare take over her goal of killing Priscilla, but not because she liked or cared about Clare. They're trying to make her out to be a loving friend but you know that Ophelia would've been pissed that Priscilla didn't die, regardless of what happened to Clare. It just bothers me that they used her as a reason for Clare to abandon her goal rather than to stick to it.
 
Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2963
That was probably, one of the shittiest endings I've seen recently. The fight between Clare and Priscilla was nothing spectacular. I was expecting something more epic just so that this series can go out with a bang. sadly, madhouse disappoints (again).

Kayrhandros said:


Seriously people. Go read the manga.


I'm really anticipating its return in November.

EDIT: I found the poll results to be really surprising. the votes are much closer than what I thought. I imagined that the majority would vote 1s or 2s
Modified by avrc, Sep 27, 2007 5:05 PM
 
Sep 27, 2007 5:17 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 550
Dear Raki,

Do you realise that this mess is ALL YOUR FAULT? Up until 15 minutes from the end of the last episode, Claymore could have ended well - but nooooo, you just HAD to see to that. Well, Raki, all I can say is, thanks a bunch. That's one more thing I put my faith in that failed to deliver, an ending of worse than Gonzo-grade badness, which takes some doing. Just take a look around at all these marks you're losing. Yes, you.

And, Raki, you know what makes it worse? the fact that it could have worked out, right up until the very moment you pulled your little stunt. I could not only forgive but welcome the fact that you didn't disappear out of the story in episode 23, if it meant that Priscilla ate your guts or Clare skewered you. Not good enough for you, eh? You're a sidekick. It's practically in your job description that you sacrifice yourself for the protagonist - and don't give me any shit about Jeane being a sidekick too, she was a much more realised character than you and it's very debateable whether she ever really was a sidekick. You should be gone or, even better, dead, and Claymore would be the better for it. People would have said "Raki was a retard, true, but at least he had the decency to die once it was really time" They'd have said "Raki getting killed made up for a lot of little shortfalls". But no. Had to have the last laugh. Selfishness and monstrous ego, nothing less, Raki.

I suppose I must admit that it's true she's also somewhat responsible for this shambles - but who lived, eh? She had the decency to expire for her wrongdoings. You've just gone and rendered the entire series pointless. In fact, worse than that, if Claymore ever comes back, you'll have half ruined that too, if everyone's still after Priscilla and Easley, and not doing or even learning anything about the real enemy. That means the Organisation, Raki, you selfish meathead.

Hopefully you and I will not meet, because if we do, you're going to pay.

YMH






 
Sep 27, 2007 5:23 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2963
YourMessageHere said:
Dear Raki,

Do you realise that this mess is ALL YOUR FAULT? Up until 15 minutes from the end of the last episode, Claymore could have ended well - but nooooo, you just HAD to see to that. Well, Raki, all I can say is, thanks a bunch. That's one more thing I put my faith in that failed to deliver, an ending of worse than Gonzo-grade badness, which takes some doing. Just take a look around at all these marks you're losing. Yes, you.

And, Raki, you know what makes it worse? the fact that it could have worked out, right up until the very moment you pulled your little stunt. I could not only forgive but welcome the fact that you didn't disappear out of the story in episode 23, if it meant that Priscilla ate your guts or Clare skewered you. Not good enough for you, eh? You're a sidekick. It's practically in your job description that you sacrifice yourself for the protagonist - and don't give me any shit about Jeane being a sidekick too, she was a much more realised character than you and it's very debateable whether she ever really was a sidekick. You should be gone or, even better, dead, and Claymore would be the better for it. People would have said "Raki was a retard, true, but at least he had the decency to die once it was really time" They'd have said "Raki getting killed made up for a lot of little shortfalls". But no. Had to have the last laugh. Selfishness and monstrous ego, nothing less, Raki.

I suppose I must admit that it's true she's also somewhat responsible for this shambles - but who lived, eh? She had the decency to expire for her wrongdoings. You've just gone and rendered the entire series pointless. In fact, worse than that, if Claymore ever comes back, you'll have half ruined that too, if everyone's still after Priscilla and Easley, and not doing or even learning anything about the real enemy. That means the Organisation, Raki, you selfish meathead.

Hopefully you and I will not meet, because if we do, you're going to pay.

YMH








Pure Win.
 
Sep 27, 2007 5:24 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2338
Raki is my favourite character.
 
Sep 27, 2007 8:58 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2688
Avarice said:
YourMessageHere said:
Dear Raki,

Do you realise that this mess is ALL YOUR FAULT? Up until 15 minutes from the end of the last episode, Claymore could have ended well - but nooooo, you just HAD to see to that. Well, Raki, all I can say is, thanks a bunch. That's one more thing I put my faith in that failed to deliver, an ending of worse than Gonzo-grade badness, which takes some doing. Just take a look around at all these marks you're losing. Yes, you.

And, Raki, you etc etc etc......

Hopefully you and I will not meet, because if we do, you're going to pay.

YMH





Pure Win.


omg. seconded.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Sep 27, 2007 9:23 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1127
Siing said:
Avarice said:
YourMessageHere said:
Dear Raki,

Do you realise that this mess is ALL YOUR FAULT? Up until 15 minutes from the end of the last episode, Claymore could have ended well - but nooooo, you just HAD to see to that. Well, Raki, all I can say is, thanks a bunch. That's one more thing I put my faith in that failed to deliver, an ending of worse than Gonzo-grade badness, which takes some doing. Just take a look around at all these marks you're losing. Yes, you.

And, Raki, you etc etc etc......

Hopefully you and I will not meet, because if we do, you're going to pay.

YMH





Pure Win.


omg. seconded.


Thirded?

Bah. I've moved on. I'll fondly remember the good old days of Claymore... up to a certain point.

Felli disapproves of this thread.
 
Sep 27, 2007 10:49 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 219
Claymore is a failure beyond words.

It's kind of like if your kid was a genius who graduated college at 12, then when he turned 13 he started eating his friends and giving hand jobs to old men.

W T F
 
Sep 28, 2007 4:02 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2892
YourMessageHere said:
Dear Raki,

Do you realise that this mess is ALL YOUR FAULT? Up until 15 minutes from the end of the last episode, Claymore could have ended well - but nooooo, you just HAD to see to that. Well, Raki, all I can say is, thanks a bunch. That's one more thing I put my faith in that failed to deliver, an ending of worse than Gonzo-grade badness, which takes some doing. Just take a look around at all these marks you're losing. Yes, you.

And, Raki, you know what makes it worse? the fact that it could have worked out, right up until the very moment you pulled your little stunt. I could not only forgive but welcome the fact that you didn't disappear out of the story in episode 23, if it meant that Priscilla ate your guts or Clare skewered you. Not good enough for you, eh? You're a sidekick. It's practically in your job description that you sacrifice yourself for the protagonist - and don't give me any shit about Jeane being a sidekick too, she was a much more realised character than you and it's very debateable whether she ever really was a sidekick. You should be gone or, even better, dead, and Claymore would be the better for it. People would have said "Raki was a retard, true, but at least he had the decency to die once it was really time" They'd have said "Raki getting killed made up for a lot of little shortfalls". But no. Had to have the last laugh. Selfishness and monstrous ego, nothing less, Raki.

I suppose I must admit that it's true she's also somewhat responsible for this shambles - but who lived, eh? She had the decency to expire for her wrongdoings. You've just gone and rendered the entire series pointless. In fact, worse than that, if Claymore ever comes back, you'll have half ruined that too, if everyone's still after Priscilla and Easley, and not doing or even learning anything about the real enemy. That means the Organisation, Raki, you selfish meathead.

Hopefully you and I will not meet, because if we do, you're going to pay.


Raki is the new Makoto, if you know what I mean. *wink*
 
Sep 28, 2007 4:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 80
Seriously though... Claymore no longer deserves the number 19 spot that it has laid claim to... As good as the early episodes were, you can't be in the top 20, or even 50 that matter, with such a shitty ending.

There better be some votes a changin.
 
Sep 28, 2007 5:42 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
I'm so utterly UPSET and miserably DISAPPOINTED in this last episode. I've managed to keep an open mind when they decide not to follow the manga story. I thought they would do a good job of it, why else would they deviate from it? But OH NO, they have to leave it at such a shitty, the sun is shining from Raki's ass, ending. Is that their attempt at a cruel joke? Why didn't Raki or Priscilla die?! URUSANAI!!!
 
Sep 28, 2007 7:33 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
Kayrhandros said:
Yumi, you should probably put that fact about Priscilla under spoiler tags as it's only true on the manga. Since the anime never pointed so. Instead...


----------

Anyway, I was wandering around the net today, and I was reminded of one thing...
Clare made a promise with Ophelia to kill Priscilla... so what happened to that?
I guess Clare showed Ophelia the finger
yet another plot hole.

And speaking of dead characters, she also promised Irene to give her arm back. True Irene is dead but Clare is unaware of the fact.
So, I guess she showed Irene the finger too.

----------

But one of the things that pain me the most, is that I never got to see the awakened form of Isley animated - which is the most spectacular of them all - , and none of his battles.
(click to see Isley's awakened form - manga spoilers)

Neither did I see Beth or Alicia, The Dweller of the South nor the true story behind Rafaella's unhealed scar. And I don't even wanna talk about Clarice and Miata.

Seriously people. Go read the manga.


im sorry i forgetted to put spoiler tag.. anyways they animated easley's awakened form but only for seconds... its on rigardos flashback.. Episode 23 10:08-10:17 (eclipse sub)
 
Sep 28, 2007 7:40 AM
DB Administrator
Plus Ultra

Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12481
Yumi said:
im sorry i forgetted to put spoiler tag.. anyways they animated easley's awakened form but only for seconds... its on rigardos flashback.. Episode 23 10:08-10:17 (eclipse sub)


Thanks for the info, looked pretty cool.

open.staff.applications  
guidelines.faq  
report.abuse
  
Thx Kina.
  
[H+] ³  

 
Sep 28, 2007 11:44 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 831
I guess not many Christians watch Claymore...


 
Sep 28, 2007 12:11 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2293
Legion17 said:
I guess not many Christians watch Claymore...


@.@ how come?
 
Sep 28, 2007 2:30 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 75
I don't read manga so I'll probably never read the Claymore manga, so that's here nor there for me. I have to take the anime for what it is.

Yeah, I'm glad it's over. The last arc dragged on and on and on. Raki pissed me off as usual. Typical episode I guess. One other thing that bugged me is that even though so many Claymore's were sent to battle, most of them just sat around holding their severed body parts for the last 4-5 episodes saying oooh and aaah and get down with your bad self, Clare...That seemed like the biggest animation cop out to me. It would have taken a lot more work to animate them all fighting, but would have been very cool and a lot more epic, like the battles were hyped up to be.

The mismatch in strength got so out of hand at the end, it lost all credibility - even for a fantasy.

I was wondering after the last episode how in the hell the writers could possibly get Raki involved in the final battle. I never would have thought he would just jump in between Priscilla and Clare and say something like "why can't we all just get along?"

Bad.

Overall, for this genre, it was a decent show, though I can't say I would watch it again.
 
Sep 28, 2007 3:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 831
ashura said:
Legion17 said:
I guess not many Christians watch Claymore...


@.@ how come?


I thought Jesus promoted forgiveness and advocated against revenge, shouldn't the followers of Jesus praise Clare for not taking out her revenge?

I'm not looking for a response, just something to think about.

------------------------------------------
I can totally see why Madhouse came to this ending

-Had to make a direct conflict between primary Protagonist and primary Antagonist. (In a shounen it has to be a physical battle.)
-Had to have Raki in it because he's one of Clare's greatest supporting characters and the male lead. (Although his masculinity is in question. What would you do if you were pretty powerless? What could Madhouse do with such an important* character who can't really do anything?)
-Had to resolve primary conflict of main character. (Vendetta against Priscilla & reuniting with Raki)
-All supporting characters had to show face.

The parts that I think they did wrong were, they left it open for another series. They had too much to solve and too little time to solve it. They shouldn't have followed the manga so tightly. The manga is on entirely different time constraints. The problem is that there were only 26 intervals of 22 minutes. Each interval needed to be an entire sub-story. While the manga has as much time as it needs, chapters can vary in length according to how much the author wants because the constraints are much more ambiguous. The story should have been a bit more simplified and concentrated more on the action and characters than on the grand scheme of things.

In my opinion, extending the battle scene to justify Priscilla's defeat and shortening the epilogue would've made a great difference. All in all, it was a great Shounen series, couldn't have expected too much unless it was marketed to my demographic.


*Raki is important to the story whether you like him or not because he's very important to Clare and Clare's character development. I personally think he's a pansy and should've done the martial arts thing and done nothing but train for 10 years or more out in the wilderness,
Modified by Legion17, Sep 28, 2007 3:35 PM


 
Sep 28, 2007 4:24 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 550
Legion17 said:


I can totally see why Madhouse came to this ending

-Had to make a direct conflict between primary Protagonist and primary Antagonist. (In a shounen it has to be a physical battle.)
-Had to have Raki in it because he's one of Clare's greatest supporting characters and the male lead. (Although his masculinity is in question. What would you do if you were pretty powerless? What could Madhouse do with such an important* character who can't really do anything?)
-Had to resolve primary conflict of main character. (Vendetta against Priscilla & reuniting with Raki)
-All supporting characters had to show face.



Without wanting to seem like I'm having a go at you, or going too OT, you speak like there's rules anime must follow. Surely breaking free of formulae is a good thing by and large? Does masculinity enter the picture at all when all the fighters are women or monsters, and Raki's just Claymore's version of a Princess archetype?

Besides, they could resolve all of the above within just that last episode in a much more satisfying manner by having Priscilla kill Raki, thus giving Clare the final impetus she needs to beat and finally kill Priscilla. A combination of shock, grief and Jeane supporting her could help return Clare back to normal, fulfilling her earlier promise, and Easley could made some snide comment to himself and run off to regain more followers. That would make a much more satisfying ending, resolved Clare 's primary conflict while freeing her up for new ideas, and given her new potential for character dev in future series.
 
Sep 28, 2007 5:43 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1185
Never read the manga. But I didn't think the ending was that bad.
From what the ANIME told us, it was the story of Clare avenging Teresa. Not the story of Clare beating up all the badguys xD
So in a way the anime ended up pretty ok. I'm not saying its a masterpiece ending, but yea.
I AM however pretty curious about the manga now. Might check that out.
 
Sep 28, 2007 10:22 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 831
YourMessageHere said:
Without wanting to seem like I'm having a go at you, or going too OT, you speak like there's rules anime must follow.

Its not necessarily anime but there are certain conventions all stories fall into because its a story. I guess there not so much as rules but a tried and true method. What I didn't stress is that I can see their motivation for what they did.

YourMessageHere said:
Surely breaking free of formula is a good thing by and large?
Sure, if you can pull it off. I guess they couldn't, its not likes its easy.

YourMessageHere said:
Does masculinity enter the picture at all when all the fighters are women or monsters, and Raki's just Claymore's version of a Princess archetype?
Sure it does, seeing how as Raki is a guy. Just because the Women and Monster-Women/Monster-Men are stronger than him doesn't make him any less a boy. Gender roles apply at all times even if they are different than the ones usually seen. Besides, hes the one who wanted to protect Clare.

YourMessageHere said:
Besides, they could resolve all of the above within just that last episode in a much more satisfying manner by having Priscilla kill Raki, thus giving Clare the final impetus she needs to beat and finally kill Priscilla. A combination of shock, grief and Jeane supporting her could help return Clare back to normal, fulfilling her earlier promise, and Easley could made some snide comment to himself and run off to regain more followers. That would make a much more satisfying ending, resolved Clare 's primary conflict while freeing her up for new ideas, and given her new potential for character dev in future series.
Seeing how they're very unwilling to delve too far from the manga else they would have adapted the story more to television and strayed farther from the beginning, I'm guessing they wanted everyone that is alive in the manga to stay alive in the anime. Priscilla and Isley are still alive, Jeane was already dead and Raki is still alive.


 
Sep 29, 2007 4:52 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1569
I can see and even agree with their motives for doing what they did - they couldn't just leave things hanging with absolutely no resolution and no idea of when/if the series would finish. I'm not upset by the fact that they decided on an original ending - only that it was horribly executed. The battle was anticlimatic, the animation was horrid, and everything else was horribly cliche and lame. Plus inconsistencies with the plot, etc. etc.

I thought Jesus promoted forgiveness and advocated against revenge, shouldn't the followers of Jesus praise Clare for not taking out her revenge?


No, they shouldn't. Maybe if she were real, but it seems rather silly to judge a person's religious views by how they respond to completely fictional entertainment. Just because a person is a Christian doesn't mean that they can't appreciate a good story about revenge - it means that they should be against revenge in reality.

And for the record, I'm not a Christian... I just couldn't help but comment.
 
Sep 29, 2007 4:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1665
Yumi said:
im sorry i forgetted to put spoiler tag.. anyways they animated easley's awakened form but only for seconds... its on rigardos flashback.. Episode 23 10:08-10:17 (eclipse sub)
Yes I know that. But that scene is more like a teaser. You hardly see his body and you only got a close up in his face. And I said animated, not just some still colored image.
 
Sep 29, 2007 5:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1610
Krelian said:
I can see and even agree with their motives for doing what they did - they couldn't just leave things hanging with absolutely no resolution and no idea of when/if the series would finish.

Somebody needs to send that memo to the Code Geass people.

But seriously though, I suppose if we're going to have to wait 3 or 4 years for the manga to provide enough material to continue, this was an adequate, but not particularly inspired, ending. It didn't completely destroy continuity of future chapters, although it did throw some serious twists into it. I still would have preferred the "fading lights" + "flash-forward" ending that was speculated about throughout the season.
 
Sep 29, 2007 5:54 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1185
Actually IF they make another season the story would change pretty dramaticly from the manga. They might be able to piece it together somehow but still.
The problem I think is, at this time they don't know if Claymore gets a second season. So if they ended it by:
They would have followed the manga's storyline but it would look like a even stranger/lamer ending to people who did not read the manga. So that's why they chose an different ending.

It still doesnt make a lot of sense. If they wanted to change the ending so its more fitting for a 1 season show, at least close up all the loose ends. If they wanted an open ending they should have just sticked to the manga. :S Oh well wouldn't be the first time Madhouse F'd up an ending.
 
Sep 29, 2007 6:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1569
Yeah, the manga's current point would be fine for the ending of a season, but not for the ending of a show. And there are a lot of things that've been left out or changed that're very relevant to the manga story in addition to how it leaves off: Easley's motives, the other dweller of the deep, details on a fair few of the other high-ranked Claymore, etc. And of course Raki and Clare haven't met up yet in the manga, which constitutes a very big difference. So it'd be impossible to continue the anime from this point and try to follow the manga. They may release an OVA or something, but I'm pretty sure this is the only season of Claymore we'll see. After that ending, I sure hope it is.

Somebody needs to send that memo to the Code Geass people.


Heh, well, I think Code Geass is a slightly different case. It's a completely original story, so they aren't bound by waiting on the manga - they can start airing the second season as soon as they can get it ready rather than having to wait years to even start on it.
 
Sep 29, 2007 8:38 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 75
Legion17 said:

*Raki is important to the story whether you like him or not because he's very important to Clare and Clare's character development.


I have to disagree. I think he was supposed to be important, but it didn't carry across well. I think Teresa and Irene and especially Jeane had the most impact on Clare. Raki could have filled his role in the story just as easily if he wasn't involved like he was. It's not so much that his emotions or actions were unrealistic, actually they were pretty believable, though it took him way to long to figure anything out, like his uselessness to Clare as an ally in battle. He should have been taking cooking classes rather than training as a fighter. In the end it was more his helplessness and reliance on Clare that made an impact on her. He needed her and that was his only real meaning to her (because of her memories of Teresa) That could have played out in a way that didn't take up so much valuable screen time in the developing of the story.

BUT, given the path Raki chose and situations he found himself in, it's hard for me to swallow that he was able to survive until the end. No way.

I don't think Clare could have defeated Priscilla unless she fully awakened, which they obviously didn't want to happen. You could sense through the entire last arc that she was going to be pulled back from the brink, and it had to be Jeane. That part worked well for me. If Raki had been able to do it, my eyes may still be rolling. Thank god they didn't do that.

To me you could have removed Raki completely, had Clare's character driven by her memories of Theresa, which was a terrific arc in the story, her encounter with Irene, and her bond with Jeane and had all that extra time (that was wasted on Raki) to develop those final battles and other missing plot points being mourned by the manga fans a lot more. He was not much more than filler in the form of a supporting character.

 
Sep 29, 2007 2:29 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5483
hmm......

drop in quality was phail.

Time to read the manga.

BTW; no second season please!

I might give it 8 or 9 out of 10. Too bad, it had 10/10 for the first like 19-20 eps.
 
Oct 1, 2007 9:12 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 550
Legion17 said:
YourMessageHere said:
Without wanting to seem like I'm having a go at you, or going too OT, you speak like there's rules anime must follow.

Its not necessarily anime but there are certain conventions all stories fall into because its a story. I guess there not so much as rules but a tried and true method. What I didn't stress is that I can see their motivation for what they did.


I too see their motivation; it's not hard to see when it's so thoroughly predictable, as things that are "tried and true" tend inevitably to become. This sort of series very occasionally does something out of the ordinary, and the ones that do, stay in your head. Trigun, for example - pretty conventional in narrative terms, but very quirky characters bucked the trend there. Everyone remembers trigun, and primarily for its characters, and I'd claim that was because it bucked the trend in that respect.

Legion17 said:
YourMessageHere said:
Surely breaking free of formula is a good thing by and large?
Sure, if you can pull it off. I guess they couldn't, its not likes its easy.


It's not hard to do, it's hard to do well, just like it's not hard to stick to a formula, but much harder to make your series shine while sticking to that formula. I'd say Claymore, while sticking to the manga, did manage to escape expectation and formula somewhat; once it deviated, it fell back on formula without the artistic vision to make it work, which ultimately was its downfall.

Legion17 said:
YourMessageHere said:
Does masculinity enter the picture at all when all the fighters are women or monsters, and Raki's just Claymore's version of a Princess archetype?
Sure it does, seeing how as Raki is a guy. Just because the Women and Monster-Women/Monster-Men are stronger than him doesn't make him any less a boy. Gender roles apply at all times even if they are different than the ones usually seen. Besides, hes the one who wanted to protect Clare.


Interesting point. However, gender and gender roles are different. Clare, and all the other Claymores, are anything but archetypal women; their gender roles are gone. They behave like very tough, skilled and confident guys do in other series, with not a jot of the passive, caring, supporting female figures often seen in stories like this left in them. Then, consider the presentation of the other men in the story. They are used exactly as women are usually used in series of this type; Easley, the Wicked Witch of the North, and Rubel, who consistently pops up like a fairy godmother. Raki is weaker than everyone else in the story, and knows it, yet struggles with his impulses to protect the person who fights for him - he has a brief, token try at fighting until he realises how outclassed he is, and realises he must fulfil this role using the power of emotion, rather than strength of arms. Pure archetypal Princess. Claymore is all about gender role reversal.

Legion17 said:
YourMessageHere said:
Besides, they could resolve all of the above within just that last episode in a much more satisfying manner by having Priscilla kill Raki, thus giving Clare the final impetus she needs to beat and finally kill Priscilla. A combination of shock, grief and Jeane supporting her could help return Clare back to normal, fulfilling her earlier promise, and Easley could made some snide comment to himself and run off to regain more followers. That would make a much more satisfying ending, resolved Clare 's primary conflict while freeing her up for new ideas, and given her new potential for character dev in future series.
Seeing how they're very unwilling to delve too far from the manga else they would have adapted the story more to television and strayed farther from the beginning, I'm guessing they wanted everyone that is alive in the manga to stay alive in the anime. Priscilla and Isley are still alive, Jeane was already dead and Raki is still alive.


That's logic I can't really argue with, especially not having read it yet. However, I'd say they only deviated when they did because they felt following the manga right to the end of ep.26 would lead to a nonsensical series conclusion. So, they left it as long as they dared, made their own ending while allowing for connection to future manga adaptation, and basically, by compromising, they messed it up. I gather the manga is slow anyway, so leaving it open for continuing close adaptations of the manga seems extremely optimistic. They say one of the main points of adaptations are to put a new spin on an existing idea, otherwise you're
just copying an existing work in a new medium; this seems like they want to both add their own little plot arc and yet follow the manga as closely as possible, which is pretty much an impossiblity. They should have had confidence in their own direction. Bokurano's director did, and so far that's an absolutely excellent series. I expect Mohiro Kitoh's manga is great too, and should it ever be released here I plan to read it, even if it is different from the Bokurano I've grown to really like.
 
Oct 1, 2007 9:18 AM
Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 37
Yea I think i'm just going to stick with the manga.
 
Oct 1, 2007 9:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1784
anime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manga
 
Oct 1, 2007 12:44 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1127
I'm not all that sure that most of the people who have read the manga and seen the anime will agree with ya Itachi-san. I really need to start reading the manga though. >.<

Felli disapproves of this thread.
 
Oct 5, 2007 2:27 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Cheesy ending. Smelled it long time ago.
It had the potential to end with a high 9 or even a 10/10, but with the last episodes, it falls on a 8/10.
 
Oct 6, 2007 6:12 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 91
Well anime in general has a trend of having 'bad' most are far too open or abrupt.

I didn't think this was that bad, underwhelming yes, but it has some closure and I enjoyed it. It was a decent point to stop at. So probably a 3/5 for the episode because they could have done better, but it's still a really good series.
 
Oct 6, 2007 10:14 PM
Site Administrator
Overlord

Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5724
Just got around to watching the end. Shitty. Didn't like it at all.
 
Oct 7, 2007 5:54 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13588
See, the boss agrees as well!
...
Now all we can do is to wait for the next chapter of the REAL Claymore T__T

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
Oct 7, 2007 6:06 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 163
Ah.. This was crap... I have no idea why did I bother to watch the last 6-8 episodes..
Claymore started off as a very promising show, but around halfway I had to realize that it is just another worthless, action-oriented, stupid shounen anime without a plot, character development and eh.. even the animation was pretty ridiculous in the last few episodes..
5/10
 
Oct 8, 2007 5:14 PM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Anime Ending - Crap

Everything up to episode 20 would be a pretty solid 10/10.
 
Nov 3, 2007 5:48 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 66
What!? Kayrhandros, your comment surprises me much. But out of the many animes I have seen, there were lots of it that I hated. But not Claymore. No, I give it a 10 not only for the art and animation but for the brilliant plot behind it. It made me want to see more and to know more about Clare who not only has to fight Demons, Awakened Ones and even the secretive organization. She battles herself to stay as human as possible while stretching her limits of her sanity.

Most of you complaining about the ending, may think that Claymore is just another crappy anime but if you put the manga aside for once, you would know that the director managed to end the first season properly. And mind you that the ending was not done in a rush unlike some of you may think. The anime was executed flawlessly with Clare battling it out with Priscilla almost being insane. And Jeane's death was not in vain as it was memorable. If you wanted Raki dead, I think the anime would simply crumble as he is the only one that can give hope to Clare. After Clare has lost her purpose for revenge, she wouldn't have any reason to go on living.

Honestly, I have not read the manga. But I can honestly say that Claymore remains one of the best anime out there. The anime may have ended with no conclusion but Clare, Miria, Deneve, Helen and Raki would surely make their appearances again in a whole new season. Now that Clare has no desire to hunt down Priscilla, It'd interesting to know what would Clare and Raki be doing next. With Clare leaving the organization for good, maybe they can finally take a short break. That is until Galatea finds her.

All in all, I was not once disappointed with Claymore and I am looking forward to her next perilous adventures.
Modified by drastikhate, Nov 3, 2007 6:13 AM



I__u_p_p_e_d__m_y__s_t_a_n_d_a_r_d_s_,__s_o__U_P__y_o_u_r_s!
 
Nov 4, 2007 2:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23708
Was not done in rush?
Are you joking? :DD Since the ep 19 Claymore was known to have some serious pacing problems, rushing some important scenes and stretching unimportant.
NO we don't want our Raki dead. We want anime Raki dead as he, through the last 6 eps was changed from annoying little kid to whinny little idiot who deserves to be killed. This brings up OOC-ness of characters. Oh please, in 26 all of them were like they have hit their heads...Claire suddenly forgetting the revenge, Miria suddenly forgets the claymores in Pieta and goes out to hang out with friends.
Raki? raki's OOC-ness began with him breaking his promise to get stronger before meeting Claire.]

New season? Don't joke me...They already would not be able access the material from manga(having shitted up entire Pieta plot) and I am sure that no one would watch the retardation of last three episodes continue for another 26 episodes...

Let me say this - IF they wanted to make a second season sometime in future, they would not have done filler-ending.
 
Nov 13, 2007 4:35 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13
hmm, that´s strange, i read the manga and saw the anime, there are to many things that do not link. Why is that??
 
Nov 14, 2007 9:30 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23708
Ginko said:
hmm, that´s strange, i read the manga and saw the anime, there are to many things that do not link. Why is that??


Count anime as alternative universe to manga. Anime diverged from manga a bit before Northern Wars
 
Nov 19, 2007 3:08 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13
when does the capter 75 come??

by the away i find an image of Raki(i think) and i think he is much older, and strong.
this is the link http://akibakko.net/128601
does this belong to manga??
is that some far away manga from capter 74???
if someone know´s it, plz reply.
 
Nov 24, 2007 6:51 PM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 101
I was really obsessed with this anime for a while. It got me reading the manga, which is now one of my all-time favorite mangas. Then, like everyone else, I started losing interest in the show toward the end, but even so, I figured: "No matter what, no matter how corny things get or how lame this fight is, as long as I get to see Clare kill Priscilla, it will have been worthwhile."

This was THE WORST anime ending I've ever seen, and I've completed 100+ shows so that says a fair amount. They should have just followed the manga and ended it the way Berserk ended, without a lot of stuff resolved but nevertheless a great story told. But the fight with Priscilla was just too drawn out and lame, and the cheesiness was intolerable. After Raki stepped in, I seriously hated him so much I just wanted a rock to fall on him and the last 10 minutes of the show be of him dying in agony.

I hated the ending so much, I just don't want there to be a second season. If there's a second season, I'll feel obligated to watch just to keep up with the current shows, and I don't think that it's worth my time any longer.
 
Dec 3, 2007 12:29 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10
Fai said:
Was not done in rush?
Are you joking? :DD Since the ep 19 Claymore was known to have some serious pacing problems, rushing some important scenes and stretching unimportant.
NO we don't want our Raki dead. We want anime Raki dead as he, through the last 6 eps was changed from annoying little kid to whinny little idiot who deserves to be killed. This brings up OOC-ness of characters. Oh please, in 26 all of them were like they have hit their heads...Claire suddenly forgetting the revenge, Miria suddenly forgets the claymores in Pieta and goes out to hang out with friends.
Raki? raki's OOC-ness began with him breaking his promise to get stronger before meeting Claire.]

New season? Don't joke me...They already would not be able access the material from manga(having shitted up entire Pieta plot) and I am sure that no one would watch the retardation of last three episodes continue for another 26 episodes...

Let me say this - IF they wanted to make a second season sometime in future, they would not have done filler-ending.


i was thinking the same thing. raki was annoying as hell... no balls at all. I know Clare should of killed pris at the end too. Damn you raki. Ah well, be glad the last 6 ep is over.
 
Dec 4, 2007 5:48 PM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 318
Yamazaki said:

What was the point of everything...


For Clare to overcome her lust for revenge and be able to live a happy life. Revenge can be overcome in more ways than just murder. :P If you look at how Clare develops over the whole thing, she goes from being a cold statue to finding a reason OTHER than murdering Priscilla to keep going in life.

That's my take on it anyways, I'm sure people who read the manga will feel different, but hey I didn't read the manga so from a pure anime perspective I thought the entire series was astounding, by far one of the best animes I've ever seen, if not THE best. For some reason, some of my favourite episodes were in the supposed "deviation from the manga" scenes... well, anyways, note to self: don't read mangas of shows I'm watching, since the manga obviously prevents one from enjoying the anime. Instead I'll just read mangas after animes, that way both can be enjoyed.
 
Dec 10, 2007 1:19 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23708
death919 said:

For Clare to overcome her lust for revenge and be able to live a happy life. Revenge can be overcome in more ways than just murder. :P If you look at how Clare develops over the whole thing, she goes from being a cold statue to finding a reason OTHER than murdering Priscilla to keep going in life.

That's my take on it anyways, I'm sure people who read the manga will feel different, but hey I didn't read the manga so from a pure anime perspective I thought the entire series was astounding, by far one of the best animes I've ever seen, if not THE best. For some reason, some of my favourite episodes were in the supposed "deviation from the manga" scenes... well, anyways, note to self: don't read mangas of shows I'm watching, since the manga obviously prevents one from enjoying the anime. Instead I'll just read mangas after animes, that way both can be enjoyed.



Since I assume that we were watching the same show, I think you should have understood already - Claymore is a nihilistic story in a way similar to Berserk. There is no room for "overcoming revenge".

And Claire would not be able to live her life...remember ? All the claymores one day awaken....

Agreed that earlier episodes there good...everything up to 18 was top-quality. Everything after that felt like a different series...Lemme say this - ep26 was clearly not a claymore episode (I was nearly vomiting from all these smiles and dumb scenes)


Favorite episodes? lol the last episodes were the worst....they made more plot holes, than they covered the plot:
What Happened to 24 in Pieta?
What is Rafaela?
What is ORG?
etc etc etc

They had 6 episodes since start of Northern Wars. If you make an anime original ending, at least resolve something, instead ofmaking utterless 3 episode long dbz-like fight with priscila...


P.s. you like it or not, revenge is the main theme of this show.
 
Top
Pages (8) « 1 [2] 3 4 » ... Last »