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Nov 9, 2012 7:46 AM

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you kind of make it a big deal that they are related, so it kind of does fall into that realm tbh. U mention their relationship of brother/cousin three times and talk about being raised together etc. So yes it kind of is.
 
Nov 9, 2012 8:04 AM

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XR said:
you kind of make it a big deal that they are related, so it kind of does fall into that realm tbh. U mention their relationship of brother/cousin three times and talk about being raised together etc. So yes it kind of is.
The problem was why,how and when she fall in love with Kazuto. Change brother/cousin to childhood friend and it's still the same question.
also
ataraxial said:
And this is all ignoring the Westermarck effect even though they were raised up together. Since we're talking about anime. From Japan. But the thing is that Suguha liking Kirito doesn't really make sense even if we ignore the fact that they are related and spent the first few years of their lives together.
 
Nov 9, 2012 8:11 AM

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ssjokg said:
XR said:
you kind of make it a big deal that they are related, so it kind of does fall into that realm tbh. U mention their relationship of brother/cousin three times and talk about being raised together etc. So yes it kind of is.
The problem was why,how and when she fall in love with Kazuto. Change brother/cousin to childhood friend and it's still the same question.
also
ataraxial said:
And this is all ignoring the Westermarck effect even though they were raised up together. Since we're talking about anime. From Japan. But the thing is that Suguha liking Kirito doesn't really make sense even if we ignore the fact that they are related and spent the first few years of their lives together.


i do see where u r coming from there, but it was just the emphasis he put on their relationship as siblings that made it seem like an incest question. Either way i dont see the problem considering in a lot of anime people fall in love as childhood friends then when reunited are still in love. She could have fallen in love with him early on and held onto it.

Love at first sight etc, all that malarkey, i don't see the issue really.
 
Nov 9, 2012 9:34 AM
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Removed a lot of spam in this topic.
Quote-chaining (with or without +1/i agree/yes/lol/ type comments) qualifies as spam.

Also, please don't use threads to advertise your clubs.

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Nov 9, 2012 12:20 PM

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Niyawa said:
omfgugay said:
There is a difference between hating and trolling, there isnt any trolling in here but there is obviously some clearly shown hate.

You're misunderstanding something. There's a difference between hating, whereas you bash the show for no reason/without any backup, and discussing it with arguments/ideas. That is what I believe we've been doing.


Please go look up the definition again for hate, as well as the differences since you don't seem to completely understand what it exactly means. I don't see any arguments and posts that have backup, mostly hostility towards the anime. Bashing for no reason is trolling, whether your trying to get attention or not. Much of the posts seemed to be removed by the moderator now though.
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Nov 9, 2012 12:29 PM

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omfgugay said:
Please go look up the definition again for hate, as well as the differences since you don't seem to completely understand what it exactly means. I don't see any arguments and posts that have backup, mostly hostility towards the anime. Bashing for no reason is trolling, whether your trying to get attention or not. Much of the posts seemed to be removed by the moderator now though.

There you go.
 
Nov 9, 2012 12:44 PM

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XR said:
i do see where u r coming from there, but it was just the emphasis he put on their relationship as siblings that made it seem like an incest question. Either way i dont see the problem considering in a lot of anime people fall in love as childhood friends then when reunited are still in love. She could have fallen in love with him early on and held onto it.

Love at first sight etc, all that malarkey, i don't see the issue really.

Yes, you can handwave it and say "oh she always liked him and held onto it since that makes sense," but that's a conjecture and not an answer. In fact, we do know how their relationship developed and it doesn't support that conjecture at all. They were really close as siblings when they were young, but when Kirito was 10-ish, he found out that they were actually cousins. From that fact and with his quitting kendo and his increasing obsession for computers and virtual reality video games, he grew distant from Suguha. Suguha wanted to recover the close relationship they had, but she couldn't really do anything, so she buried herself in her kendo practicing and academics.

She doesn't start to like Kirito romantically until he gets back from Aincrad, and she only "likes" him in the sense that she's confused about the jealousy that she feels when it comes to Kirito being devoted to Asuna. And she's confused about how he is suddenly approachable and friendly towards her. The romantic love stuff only really starts with meeting him in ALO.

At least that's the most reasonable interpretation given what we know. Basically, the anime did a crappier job of explaining things that were already poorly explained in the LN. But what else is new?

As for incest, the whole second paragraph of the first post was there to state as obviously as possible that it wasn't really an incest question. Mentioning the cousin/brother relationship was only for convenience. It would have been difficult and awkward to phrase the question without mentioning that Kirito and Suguha happen to be cousins and get the same meaning across.
 
Nov 9, 2012 1:25 PM

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Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.
 
Nov 9, 2012 1:57 PM

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It's quite hard to explain someones love.
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:05 PM

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Niyawa said:
Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.
Except that, only 3 of the 5 "main" girls fall in love with him.And thats not counting the red haired one,Yoruko,the nun and the silver haired one from The Army.
Of course Yui doesnt count.And Sachi didnt even need the LN to see that she didnt have romantic feelings for him.And according to Kawahara, Kirito was the one that had feelings for her.

I will give you Silica since the anime didnt show that she looked at him as an older brother so 4 out of 5 "mains".

You guys will even count
Modified by ssjokg, Nov 9, 2012 2:17 PM
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:14 PM

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ssjokg said:
Except that, only 3 of the 5 "main" girls fall in love with him.And thats not counting the red haired one,Yoruko,the nun and the silver haired one from The Army.
Of course Yui doesnt count.And Sachi didnt even need the LN to see that she didnt have romantic feelings for him.And according to Kawahara, Kirito was the one that had feelings for her.

I will give you Silica since the anime didnt show that she looked at him as an older brother so 4 out of 5 "mains".

You guys will even count[spoilers]the two Lords for teasing him(and Lyfa)

Hurm. See? I rest my case.
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:19 PM

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Niyawa said:
ssjokg said:
Except that, only 3 of the 5 "main" girls fall in love with him.And thats not counting the red haired one,Yoruko,the nun and the silver haired one from The Army.
Of course Yui doesnt count.And Sachi didnt even need the LN to see that she didnt have romantic feelings for him.And according to Kawahara, Kirito was the one that had feelings for her.

I will give you Silica since the anime didnt show that she looked at him as an older brother so 4 out of 5 "mains".

You guys will even count

Hurm. See? I rest my case.

rest your case?Which part of not all girls fall for him didnt you get?
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:33 PM

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ssjokg said:
rest your case?Which part of not all girls fall for him didnt you get?

I believe I meant you were right...
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:41 PM

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Niyawa said:
ssjokg said:
rest your case?Which part of not all girls fall for him didnt you get?

I believe I meant you were right...

We had an argument and you said "i rest my case".From the english I know that means that somehow I proved your claims....

Anyway, if you meant that my bad....
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:54 PM

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Niyawa said:
Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.


You mean any girl that appears for more than 3 episodes.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:58 PM

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ssjokg said:
We had an argument and you said "i rest my case".From the english I know that means that somehow I proved your claims....

Anyway, if you meant that my bad....

Oh, I'm not a native english speaker, so from time to time I get retarded like that, my apologies.

BloodRequiem said:
You mean any girl that appears for more than 3 episodes.

I guess we could use that too.
 
Nov 9, 2012 2:59 PM
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BloodRequiem said:
Niyawa said:
Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.


You mean any girl that appears for more than 3 episodes.


That would be Asuna, Sugu and Yui. Correct for two of those.
 
Nov 9, 2012 3:11 PM

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BloodRequiem said:
Niyawa said:
Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.


You mean any girl that appears for more than 3 episodes.

Now you decreased the number of girls that love him.Unless you count Liz's 2 appearances after her ep as actual screen time.
 
Nov 9, 2012 6:49 PM

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Niyawa said:
Ataraxial, all there is to it, that romance in SAO is inconsistent. We all know, it doesn't matter who's the girl, she will fall in love with Kirito. It's not really a matter of "why" anymore, it's "when". I'm pretty sure both fanboys/haters/casual viewers can agree with me, since this is what have been happening since episode 2.

Pretty much, but I think meta-reasons for why Suguha likes Kirito are obvious (and boring) enough.
I was only interested in whether the LN explained the situation in some logical way since the anime did not.

Staying in-universe, Suguha is a special case because all of the other girls went with the pattern "Kirito hangs out with me for a bit-> I fall in love with him." What the anime makes Suguha's situation look like is "Kirito goes comatose -> I fall in love with him," which is at least slightly silly and confusing.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:04 PM

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ataraxial said:
Staying in-universe, Suguha is a special case because all of the other girls went with the pattern "Kirito hangs out with me for a bit-> I fall in love with him." What the anime makes Suguha's situation look like is "Kirito goes comatose -> I fall in love with him," which is at least slightly silly and confusing.

That would be another way to look at it. You have a "brother" or friend that you're related with. Suddenly that same brother/friend enters in comatose, and you realize that you really liked being with him and stuff. Now try to put yourself in Suguha's situation. Far as I know, she wasn't very close with him at all. And was trying to close the gap in their relationship (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). That's what makes it inconsistent. The fact that she fell in love with him while they never really had a chance to close that gap.

Again, I believe everyone knows that it's simple a plot device (making Kirito look badass). Because in-universe something like this happening would be pretty rare, if I care to say, unrealistic. But again, I don't want to argue with this because everyone has their circumstances, so while it's "unrealistic" for me. It can be something normal or rather, in the situation, meant to happen.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:12 PM

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Anything is possible in SAO.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:22 PM

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Niyawa said:
ataraxial said:
Staying in-universe, Suguha is a special case because all of the other girls went with the pattern "Kirito hangs out with me for a bit-> I fall in love with him." What the anime makes Suguha's situation look like is "Kirito goes comatose -> I fall in love with him," which is at least slightly silly and confusing.

That would be another way to look at it. You have a "brother" or friend that you're related with. Suddenly that same brother/friend enters in comatose, and you realize that you really liked being with him and stuff. Now try to put yourself in Suguha's situation. Far as I know, she wasn't very close with him at all. And was trying to close the gap in their relationship (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). That's what makes it inconsistent. The fact that she fell in love with him while they never really had a chance to close that gap.

Again, I believe everyone knows that it's simple a plot device (making Kirito look badass). Because in-universe something like this happening would be pretty rare, if I care to say, unrealistic. But again, I don't want to argue with this because everyone has their circumstances, so while it's "unrealistic" for me. It can be something normal or rather, in the situation, meant to happen.


They were close, but became more distant when Kirito got immersed at MMO world (That was when he gave up in Kendo, don't know the year)
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:25 PM

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@Kiyama
"In-universe" means only considering what we know from within the universe of the anime or the LN. It excludes reasons like "people like incest" or "SAO is a harem" because those are meta-reasons about the work from our perspective and not from the perspective from within the fictional universe of SAO. I think you're misinterpreting "in-universe" as "real life." It's the opposite.

deathxempress said:
Anything is possible in SAO.

Does that include polygamy?
Because otherwise, Suguha has as much of a chance of ending up with Kirito as Sachi does.
Which is silly because Suguha >>> Asuna. Discuss.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:30 PM

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ataraxial said:
@Kiyama"In-universe" means only considering what we know from within the universe of the anime or the LN. It excludes reasons like "people like incest" or "SAO is a harem" because those are meta-reasons about the work from our perspective and not from the perspective from within the fictional universe of SAO. I think you're misinterpreting "in-universe" as "real life." It's the opposite.

It's Niyawa, hahaha. Just Niya is fine. My apologies then, I was lazy to look up the meaning and made an assumption.

>Suguha >>> Asuna
Good taste confirmed.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:34 PM

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Niyawa said:
It's Niyawa, hahaha. Just Niya is fine. My apologies then, I was lazy to look up the meaning and made an assumption.

Oh lol, sorry. Kiyama-sensei from Railgun is a badass, so you should take it as a compliment.
 
Nov 9, 2012 7:42 PM

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ataraxial said:
Oh lol, sorry. Kiyama-sensei from Railgun is a badass, so you should take it as a compliment.

That never got into me, haha. Though while I recognize her character, it's kinda weird to me to be referred like that so I'd like you to use Niya. But she's cool, don't worry.
 
Nov 9, 2012 8:22 PM

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ataraxial said:
because otherwise, Suguha has as much of a chance of ending up with Kirito as Sachi does.
Which is silly because Suguha >>> Asuna. Discuss.



No! we will not discuss this xD
 
Nov 9, 2012 8:28 PM

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vbyo said:
ataraxial said:
because otherwise, Suguha has as much of a chance of ending up with Kirito as Sachi does.
Which is silly because Suguha >>> Asuna. Discuss.



No! we will not discuss this xD


Not again. Here's a favorite character thread
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=495545
and one for Sugu's sugus, I know you guys are going to discuss it anyway
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=514769
 
Nov 9, 2012 8:45 PM

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KaiKatsuya said:
Not again. Here's a favorite character thread
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=495545
and one for Sugu's sugus, I know you guys are going to discuss it anyway
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=514769

That poll is horribly skewed against Suguha since she doesn't even exist until episode 15.
What we really need is a Suguha vs. Asuna thread. After all, I think we've exhausted the topic of Suguha having a fetish for comatose brothers or whatever this thread was supposed to be about.

Niyawa said:
That never got into me, haha. Though while I recognize her character, it's kinda weird to me to be referred like that so I'd like you to use Niya. But she's cool, don't worry.

Well it was a typo, it's not like I planned on continuing to call you that.
 
Nov 10, 2012 1:25 AM

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If you are paying enough attention to the show you know that Asuna barely surpasses Silica.

Shinon>=Zekken>Sugu>Alicia Rue>Liz>other girls>Silica>=Asuna
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:15 PM

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ssjokg said:
If you are paying enough attention to the show you know that Asuna barely surpasses Silica.

Shinon>=Zekken>Sugu>Alicia Rue>Liz>other girls>Silica>=Asuna

Wait, so do you think that Asuna is barely better than Silica or the other way around?
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:18 PM
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ataraxial said:
ssjokg said:
If you are paying enough attention to the show you know that Asuna barely surpasses Silica.

Shinon>=Zekken>Sugu>Alicia Rue>Liz>other girls>Silica>=Asuna

Wait, so do you think that Asuna is barely better than Silica or the other way around?
May be he has a loli fetish.
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:23 PM
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AiCon said:
ataraxial said:
ssjokg said:
If you are paying enough attention to the show you know that Asuna barely surpasses Silica.

Shinon>=Zekken>Sugu>Alicia Rue>Liz>other girls>Silica>=Asuna

Wait, so do you think that Asuna is barely better than Silica or the other way around?
May be he has a loli fetish.


Silica > Asuna and Silica was only in 1 episode. I'm being biased though.
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:28 PM

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JavierR said:
Silica > Asuna and Silica was only in 1 episode. I'm being biased though.

No you're not. It's true.
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:52 PM
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ataraxial said:
JavierR said:
Silica > Asuna and Silica was only in 1 episode. I'm being biased though.

No you're not. It's true.
I'll wait til we get more episodes of Sillica before I commit to a loli. Who knows - she might turn out to be useless and annoying later on.
 
Nov 10, 2012 9:56 PM
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ataraxial said:
JavierR said:
Silica > Asuna and Silica was only in 1 episode. I'm being biased though.

No you're not. It's true.


im kinda a lolicon so i thought so, but if you say so..
 
Nov 10, 2012 10:14 PM

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ataraxial said:
JavierR said:
Silica > Asuna and Silica was only in 1 episode. I'm being biased though.

No you're not. It's true.



actually its bias either way as its an opinion* on personal taste* lol
 
Nov 10, 2012 10:45 PM

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It doesn't matter because Leafa acts almost exactly the same as Asuna, they just needed another character to fill in the spot, and who better than imouto-chan to satisfy the fans? It's like shooting 2 birds with 1 stone for any LN/VN writer.
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Nov 10, 2012 10:52 PM

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I think it's pointless to ask "Why" because the author himself has no reason of backstory to it. Suguha's love begins with her love, there's no "because".

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Nov 10, 2012 11:02 PM

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Attraction, same reason Kirito fell in love with Asuna.

But you gotta realize, Kirito's attraction power level in this universe is over 9000...you should not be surprised if any girl falls in love with him within the first 5 minutes upon meeting him.

That's for Kazuto at least, for the Kirito avatar it was simple curiosity that developed into love upon spending time with him (kinda like most normal relationships).
 
Nov 11, 2012 1:40 AM

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AiCon said:
ataraxial said:
ssjokg said:
If you are paying enough attention to the show you know that Asuna barely surpasses Silica.

Shinon>=Zekken>Sugu>Alicia Rue>Liz>other girls>Silica>=Asuna

Wait, so do you think that Asuna is barely better than Silica or the other way around?
May be he has a loli fetish.

Yes Asuna is barely better for me.And thats because of the latest volume.Without vol10 it's Silica>Asuna.But for 1 volume I wont type Asuna>=Silica...
I mean, Asuna was the MC for volume 7 and the only thing I felt while reading it was"Go away we need more Yuuki(Zekken)".For me,Asuna in vol7 is more self insertion than Kirito was in 6 volumes.
And I wont deny that I have a loli fetish.
/Runs away
 
Nov 11, 2012 1:40 AM

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Because in SAO universe(So far), Kirito is the only male who's not a loser.

I take it back, the black dude is alright too. And Kayaba to a certain extent (Besides the fact that this guy is so much of a homicidal psychotic genius he don't even know why he do things)


other than those 3 though, the rest are either

Useless, cowardice, evil or just simply sucks at video games.
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:11 AM

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AirStyles said:
Because in SAO universe(So far), Kirito is the only male who's not a loser.

I take it back, the black dude is alright too. And Kayaba to a certain extent (Besides the fact that this guy is so much of a homicidal psychotic genius he don't even know why he do things)


other than those 3 though, the rest are either

Useless, cowardice, evil or just simply sucks at video games.
So Klein is useless? Or coward? Or evil?
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:13 AM

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symbv said:
So Klein is useless? Or coward? Or evil?


Klein who?

EDIT:

Oh right! The samurai guy who's always around to show how awesome Kirito is compare to him.

Have to give him credit for being Kirito's "voice", he also serve as a character who make Kirito seem deeper. Such as

"Is he still hung up on that?", "You must definitely not die" and other dialogs like that.
Modified by AirStyles, Nov 11, 2012 2:17 AM
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:15 AM

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symbv said:
AirStyles said:
Because in SAO universe(So far), Kirito is the only male who's not a loser.

I take it back, the black dude is alright too. And Kayaba to a certain extent (Besides the fact that this guy is so much of a homicidal psychotic genius he don't even know why he do things)


other than those 3 though, the rest are either

Useless, cowardice, evil or just simply sucks at video games.
So Klein is useless? Or coward? Or evil?


If there is something about SAO that I dont like,is that when the author decided to make another male LEAD he decided that it had to be a new character instead of giving Klein that role.

I mean Klein having a
?That would be really funny.
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:15 AM

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AirStyles said:
Oh right! The samurai guy who's always around to show how awesome Kirito is compare to him
The same can be said of the black dude, no?
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:18 AM

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symbv said:
AirStyles said:
Oh right! The samurai guy who's always around to show how awesome Kirito is compare to him
The same can be said of the black dude, no?


the black dude at least run a shop and supported weaker character with his shop, ignoring his own gain for others. (He's also an appraiser)
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:28 AM

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AirStyles said:
symbv said:
AirStyles said:
Oh right! The samurai guy who's always around to show how awesome Kirito is compare to him
The same can be said of the black dude, no?
the black dude at least run a shop and supported weaker character with his shop, ignoring his own gain for others. (He's also an appraiser)
But still when he is around, you only see how awesome Kirito compared to him Despite all the shop thing etc. And Klein at least held off a big party for Kirito to get the resurrection item. He also united his pals and I believe practically all of them survived till the end, something definitely awesome when compared to Kirito.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:31 AM

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Posts: 15476
symbv said:
AirStyles said:
symbv said:
AirStyles said:
Oh right! The samurai guy who's always around to show how awesome Kirito is compare to him
The same can be said of the black dude, no?
the black dude at least run a shop and supported weaker character with his shop, ignoring his own gain for others. (He's also an appraiser)
But still when he is around, you only see how awesome Kirito compared to him Despite all the shop thing etc. And Klein at least held off a big party for Kirito to get the resurrection item. He also united his pals and I believe practically all of them survived till the end, something definitely awesome when compared to Kirito.

But he didnt get the girl...any girl.Even a female NPC
 
Nov 11, 2012 2:43 AM

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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10131
ssjokg said:
But he didnt get the girl...any girl.Even a female NPC
Getting any girl that is worth getting is Kirito's prerogative, right? Klein's role is to keep reminding us about that ;-)
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
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