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| Quite underwhelmed after the sheer brilliance of the first two arcs (and Bakeneko), but it did the job. The direction and visuals weren't as compelling as previous stuff. Not to say it was bad or anything, but the previous arc set the bar sky high. I think woman definitely killed herself though, that was more or less blatantly stated. A Mononoke was born after her death, just like in the first brothel arc. |
KellhusMay 15, 2014 1:03 PM
wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... To the people who watched it or to the people who will watch this episode in the future, I will share with you how I understood the story....(I know it's a bit late, but this episode HAS to be analyzed) So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... Ooooh. So that's what she meant she said it was herself that she killed (I was thinking something along the lines of killing herself mentally so she can forget whatever it was around her) This definitely cleared up things. Thank you good sir for that wonderful analysis. :) |
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| god dam I saw the ending coming but it still shocked me this anime so far.... deep |
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| She died but nobody cared :/ |
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness." "May those who defy their fate be granted glory." |
insan3priest said: The thing that strikes me is the final scene of The Medicine Seller sitting in the kitchen smoking the same exact pipe as the Masked man, I mean what else could that mean except that it was him in some form? Yes my thoughts exactly, from the beginning i doubted it was him in his golden form so that scene cleared everything up But what i am confused about is whether he helped her in the beginning consciously so that he would discover the form of the mononoke or was he not aware of it until the masked man lost his mask. |
" Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future. " Cloud Atlas |
| I think she killed herself mainly because of this scene: |
| I really liked this arc, more than the other two. I also like how they made the ending open-ended. What more can I say, than what's already been said by the other posters of the ending, or for the whole arc. All in all, that's my take on it. :) |
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| I thought that Ochou ran away instead of killing herself. (especially since the husband + everyone else kept expect her to show with more sake) Still, both theories could be what happened, it all depends on how you interpret it. This is probably my favourite arc so far. |
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| I actually thought that |
| Wow, plot twist near the end! Didn't expect it. 4.5/5 for this arc. As good as the first one. |
| Thanks for the analysis everyone! I am more inclined to believe that she escaped from her shackle, rather than committing suicide, because otherwise I would think that they would show a corpse of hers by the end of the episode when the screen panned toward outside of the house. Kururiuri also did ask the question, why didn't she just escape, instead of 'killing' herself. I'd like to believe the reason he asked this is because she is indeed, alive. But honestly, this could go both way. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| So now I think I got the pattern of this show now, the true 'Form' of the Mononoke isn't the thing that looks like a monster, but is actually the person who undergo stress the most due to life problems, while the life problem itself is the 'Truth', and they 'Regret' for their life choices which lead them to that stressful problems? I see, pretty good concept afterall, it's just that the arcing time skip doesn't suits me well and the Kusuriuri himself doesn't receive much characterizations and much looks like just a travelling shaman. |
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| Wow. "But there's no-one here." That last line gave me goosebumps. This arc feels more cryptic than the last ones, and certainly more open-ended; this is evident in the fact that there are multiple interpretations that could fit. Personally, like others in the thread, I also believe that Ochou escaped in the end. She didn't commit murder or suicide; she killed parts of herself (four times - once in each part of the play that was her life) in order to bend to the will of her mother, and later, her husband and his family. The 'wavering of her heart' and her pent up frustration and rage manifested itself as the Faceless Mononoke - but the twist here is that it completely possessed her and took her form. When the Medicine Seller visits her house, it's possible that in order to unearth the Truth he delves into Ochou's mind - designing a very Inception-like setting as he talks to her. That's where Ep. 6 begins. He plants the idea that she killed someone - "who have you killed?" Her family? That's the first thing she can think of, because of her latent hate, and she is convinced that she must have killed them. He manages to badger the Mononoke to reveal itself, but it reveals itself in another, fake, Form, confusing Kururiuri. It's possible that the form is inspired from the Medicine Seller himself, since it uses his smoking pipe. In the following sequences it becomes evident that the Mononoke has fallen in hopeless love with Ochou as well. Feeding on her hidden emotions and imagination, it constructs an elaborate fantasy wherein it helps her kill her family and then marries her - but this dream can't last, and bad memories from her past infiltrate and destroy it. This was the whole point in the first place - uncovering her memories and trying to realise what is the Truth and Regret that is driving the Mononoke; it tries hard to interfere but is tied down by Kururiuri. He then proceeds to describe how she let herself be suffocated by her overbearing mother's greed - she killed off her childhood, her freedom, her love, and her dignity. Finally, both of them realise that the Form is Ochou herself. With this, the Mononoke is exorcised. Ochou is freed from the prison of her own making, and now she can finally walk out of it, which she does, leaving the Medicine Seller alone for the final scene. |
| That ending sure is up for interpretation |
| I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats. |
| This show is very confusing, i think it appeals more to the Japanese, since many of its theme are blending in with their folklore. I still like it, but that issue is taking a part from my enjoyment. The art is one of the best in the whole medium, still Tatami Galaxy art is the magnum opus. |
| Well that was a very thought provoking ending. Maybe I'm looking for it because I like Persona too much. But this series has sort of reminded me of those games when it gets all ideological. And the monsters look like something out of Persona to me too. So all the talk about masks was definitely giving me some P5 vibes. I had a slight problem with this one, which I also had with the first two arcs but not quite as pronounced. I'm really engaged in the story, I'm really curious where it's going to go next. And then it spends a LOT of time in the climax rehashing the same plot points over and over. I think it's deliberate, I think there's some strength in repetition. But in this arc I found myself desperately wanting it to get a move on. I may need to rewatch these two episodes. I found them to be even more perplexing than the previous arcs but no less compelling. I don't quite understand whether or not the wife of the samurai actually killed her husband and his family. And if she didn't and this was just a head trip to teach her that she was killing herself. By pretending to be someone she wasn't, just to make her mother happy. Where were she and the Medicine Seller during all this? I got the metaphor he kept making of if you don't want to be here it's a prison, if you do it's a palace. At first I took it quite literally. But I really like the metaphor for a home, workplace or anywhere you have to spend a majority of your time. It was very poignant and one of the times I thought the repetition really drove a point home. Such an abstract and strange series. And yet so entertaining and visually dynamic. I already am not ready for it to end. |
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| When Kusuriuri asked Ochou who she really killed, I guessed that she slowly killed her soul by doing everything she did in life unwillingly for her mother's selfishness, bounding it in misery and pent-up rage turning it into a Mononoke. That twist was a hard-hitter~ As confusing as it was I'll just assume that the man in the mask is representing her desire to have a new life without having to conform to other's whims while the mask being her state of showing a fake side of her at all times. Kusuriuri might've reenacted those parts in front, making the fragments of her imagination tangible (like turning her thoughts into the Fox Dude) to interrogate Ochou about the 3 answers and let her rest in peace, the pipe in his possession backing the theory that he was pulling the strings in the "play". What happened to Ochou in the end was kinda up to the viewer but since Mononoke don't leave a trace after being exorcised, she most likely disappeared afterwards. |
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| I was surprised this arc was only two episodes. I guess the last arc is five? |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| This episode was brilliant, I loved everything about the Noppera Bō Arc. Kusuriuri is becoming one of my favourite characters, he is so intriguing... is he even a human? I need to know more about him and that 'sword' Also thank you to everyone commenting their thoughts about the meaning, symbols and theories about the order of the scenes. It helped me to shut my mouth down on my hype when I finished the episode lol |
_soley9Dec 10, 2017 1:04 PM
| "If you believe this place binds you, it is a prison; if you don't want to leave, it is a fortress" Also "Feelings and memories, the exist only within my heart. Though we may pass the same time, or see the same sights, what we hold within our hearts can never be the same. Your face, your voice, the image of you, which exists only within me. Who are you?" I AM BEYOND WORDS. This arc was INCREDIBLE. So poetic, so full of symbolism. I AM A SUCKER FOR THIS TYPE OF STUFF. Being free enough to come up with your own conclusions, each mind grasping and understanding according to its own worldview. It's the same as Kusuriuri enunciates previously, 'what we hold within our hearts can never be the same'. This and first arc are my favorite ones so far. I do think that somehow Kusuriuri and the Faceless are the same, the smoke at the end clearly hints this, also, she either escaped, that is set herself free as if she were a bird (for that was her deepest longing) or she literally became a bird after being exorcised. |
 SEIZON SENRYAKU: Hungry 100% of the time.Vzla-IT |
| Based on many of the helpful interpretations in this thread, I personally think and agree that she did not commit suicide or is dead by the end of the show. As we have already seen in the previous episodes, the show is heavily placed with symbolism and metaphors that can lead to different interpretations and Ochou's ending is representative of that. The ending with the sake scene repeating itself again is back to reality and we get to see Ochou's decision. I also believe that this whole arc is constructed as a play, through its use of Noh masks and scenes that are separated into Acts. Kusuriuri is directing the play to help Ochou recover her lost memories and discover who she really killed. This also might help:https://myanimelist.net/character/5003/Man_in_Fox_Mask As someone mentioned before, the image of her hung on a tree are all her when she lost the opportunity to be free and be herself. Instead she becomes an empty vessel and is the incarnation of her mothers wishes. Notice how her soul escapes from her body. She is basically no longer herself. This was initially one of the weaker arcs imo because it was so ambiguous and confusing but rewatching it again and reading your replies made it more enjoyable. |
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wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... To the people who watched it or to the people who will watch this episode in the future, I will share with you how I understood the story....(I know it's a bit late, but this episode HAS to be analyzed) So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... I came for this explanation, thanks! |
on 
| yeah i might have to definitely rewatch that, i get it but some parts are a little ?? |
| Oh man I love this show, so well fucking done |
| “I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy |
| this arc was hella confusing, never saw that twist with the mononokes true form coming, my retarded brain thought that the house where she lived with abusive husband (as a prison) or her mother could be the mononoke lol BERKeley5531 said: The whole thing about her killing the family was just an illusion/fantasy. She fantasized about it to escape the horrible reality of her life. Living at that home was like living in a prison. The Medicine Seller (feigning ignorance) actually assumed the form of the masked man to show her she was valuable and encourage her to realize her liberation (that's why they show him smoking the same thing at the end that the masked man was smoking). She doesn't die in the end, she just comes back to reality and escapes. The Medicine Seller stands there in the kitchen, smoking and smiling at his success, and her husband calls her name wondering where she is, not realizing that she finally freed herself and ran away. your comment was really helpful! i wish i could like or "thumbs up" it somehow lol |
| This felt like a self redeeming fever dream, the first episode wasn't what I'd call a blood rushing one for how fast and ominous it was, but this one help clear it out a lot it made more sense out of it just like the other arcs did. But it' still not the best one yet, I'd argue the first and second arcs are still way better. |
| Brilliant episode. It was great reading through all the replies and seeing people piece the meaning of this arc together. I feel so stupid for not realising the events were shown out of order. I think what I liked most about this episode was how it presented death as a release in multiple capacities, both literally and non-literally. While most people seem to take the side that Ocho killed herself at the end, I believe that she ran away from her marriage, thereby killing the side of her which was taught to be subservient. While this episode dwells on the thematic of prisons and masks, it places an equal emphasis on freedom, and what could still become of Ocho (hence the allure of windows). Suicide is a very bold decision, and Ocho's reluctance in speaking up for herself doesn't really align with that outcome. Besides, Kusuriuri is quite humanitarian. Within the context of his character, it wouldn't make much sense for him to be content with a situation getting resolved that way. Alternatively, it could be that Kusuriuri was the man in the fox mask, and Ocho perceived him as a mononoke the same way she antagonised everyone else. Yet, as the mask came off she realised that she was the monster. That explains why he's at the residence by the end, as well as how the conversation between Ocho's husband and his brother echoed throughout the arc, as the mind fixates on negative experiences like that. Oh well, if anything, the multiple interpretations this arc has is a testament to how amazing this show is. |
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TargaryenX said: The key part about this episode is that it isn't 100% chronological. For those of you who still don't understand it, i'll lay it out step-by-step. This is probably the best explanation out there..I was kinda confused at the end..but this cleared things right up.. Brings to an end another amazing arc this time the feelings more personal and regret/form/truth which were more difficult to decipher.. Really well made.. |
 "Not everyone who works hard is rewarded. But, all those who succeed have worked hard" |
| Ocho ran away. At least that's what I believe. The bird on the canvas flying away, Kusuriuri saying "there's nobody here" followed by a shot of the empty room, the camera panning to the outside world - all of these seem to point to how she finally freed herself from her mental prison, allowing her to gather enough resolve to leave the household. Combine that with the fact that the "the one she killed" is completely figurative, and there's not really that much evidence that points to suicide. She merely "killed" her soul, and this is akin to the removal of her face in her mononoke alter ego. Besides, when dealing with mononoke, Kusuriuri stated in the previous episode that it was unheard of for a mononoke to talk in the manner of a human. Thus, he must've been talking to Ocho's psyche while she was alive. In the end, it becomes clear that these past two episodes, except for the ending, took place in Ocho's mind. Her mind was infiltrated by Kusuriuri, and the visions in there of Ocho killing her husband's group and of the faceless monster/lover represent her repressed emotions. Think back to her monologue at the beginning of this episode. She states that "The way you look... The way your voice sounds... That exists only in my heart". This alludes to the distorted reality she perceives, and this distortion differs per person. For her husband and his family, her view toward them is of her captors, and this causes her to imagine killing them in her mind in order to free herself. The faceless monster/lover is her visualization of a forbidden love she once had in the past that she could never let go of; in her psyche her delusions of this lover constantly encouraged her to reject her family and elope with him instead. But why did this dream monster have Kusuriuri's smoke/pipe? Is it because she saw Kusuriuri using it in real life before the two of them delved into her psyche? Ultimately, there's still a lot of questions. What exactly are Kusuriuri's powers, and how can invade a person's mind like this? Why did this entire process with Ocho have to be so elaborate, when it's obvious that it was merely so that the show could trick us with the "it's all a dream" concept? But then again, that last point isn't really a valid criticism. After the reveal, looking back on it is pretty gratifying. Overall, this episode was subtle; perhaps a little too subtle for my liking. In fact, I had to rewatch the second half of the episode again to understand it. This makes it difficult for me to say how much I liked this arc, considering how I was confused for the majority of it. In the future when I rewatch this entire show, I need to keep this info in mind so that I can appreciate this arc more. I can say for sure though that I liked this arc quite a lot, but not as much as the previous one, Umibozu. Still, Ocho's characterization was on point, and Mononoke does a great job at expressing her repressed emotions with such misery and grief for viewers. The reveal at the end was amazing. As for visuals and sounds, they were great as usual. Also, this episode reminded me once again of how cool a dude Kusuriuri is. |
| after he kept asking her "who did you really kill?" i was like oh she commited suicide... but now after reading some of the comments here, maybe i think in the end she ran away. But it's an open ending and you can interpret it either way. but who tf was the faceless man?? |
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| Hmm, so in the end, there was no crime committed? She became a Mononoke to escape reality since she didn't want to disappoint her mother because she was her tool. Ultimately, she decides to flee from that abusive family for real, and she doesn't care about pleasing her mother anymore. It's no wonder those scenes kept repeating even though it was supposed to have happened in the past already. Interesting twist. |
| Didn't read all posts and theories here. What I think happened is that, because Ochou was "killing herself" (not literally) she ended losing her identity. This caught the attention of the No Face. She saw her, WITHOUT A FACE HERSELF, and fell in love. I think this is the part we can be sure that happened, but most of the rest is left ambiguous, there's no answers, only possibilities. For example, did Ochou killed herself and became a Mononoke? It's possible. Did she? No way to know for sure. Apparently the Medicine Seller arrived at the scene while it happened or just after it happened, that's why he got caught in the prison. Did Ochou died when he exorcised her, if she was still alive? Again, it's possible, but there's no way to know for sure, she could had just left the house after being exorcised. Anyway, whatever happened it was like a "happy ending" for her. She was freed from her prison, right? The one who lost was the No Face, that didn't got together with a person he loved. |
PaninaManinaFeb 2, 6:49 PM
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